0:01:12 > 0:01:15In the South: Can underachieving schools be
0:01:15 > 0:01:25turned around by teaching a fourth R? Lessons in reasoning have been
0:01:25 > 0:01:25
0:01:25 > 0:30:16Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1730 seconds
0:30:16 > 0:30:18introduced with surprising results Hello. Coming up on the Sunday
0:30:18 > 0:30:21Politics in the South: It may not be on the national
0:30:21 > 0:30:23curriculum, but a school in Southampton says it has boosted its
0:30:23 > 0:30:26Ofsted rating from satisfactory to outstanding by teaching philosophy
0:30:26 > 0:30:30to five-year-olds. More on that later in the programme. First, let
0:30:30 > 0:30:33me introduce you to our two guests who will be with me for the next 20
0:30:33 > 0:30:35minutes. Sandra Gidley is the Former Liberal Democrat MP for
0:30:35 > 0:30:39Romsey and John Glen is the Conservative MP for Salisbury. Do
0:30:39 > 0:30:42you miss being an M P? Less as time goes on. I missed it at first.
0:30:42 > 0:30:45Obviously you don't want to lose your seat. But I am quite glad to
0:30:45 > 0:30:48be out of it at the moment. A lot of decisions are being made that I
0:30:48 > 0:30:52would feel uncomfortable with. It has been quite nice to be back
0:30:52 > 0:31:02doing a job where you have a higher -- high approval rating from the
0:31:02 > 0:31:03
0:31:03 > 0:31:10public. Will you stand again? don't know. I will wait until the
0:31:10 > 0:31:15boundary review is completed. were selected in an open primary.
0:31:15 > 0:31:20Has that made a difference? gives me more confidence that I was
0:31:20 > 0:31:25selected on a broader basis, but that was a couple of years ago. I
0:31:25 > 0:31:30think we should use them a lot in the run-up to the next election. It
0:31:30 > 0:31:34is a good way to engage with the local community and allow it all
0:31:34 > 0:31:40people to put his bid and make politics real. I was happy that it
0:31:40 > 0:31:44happened that way. You got some headlines a few years ago for
0:31:44 > 0:31:53saying you did not expect to be in line for a ministerial job any time
0:31:53 > 0:31:58soon. You rather put your foot in and. I am enjoying being MP for
0:31:58 > 0:32:00Salisbury. We will see what happens. It has been another bad week for
0:32:00 > 0:32:02the Health Secretary, Andrew Lansley. This e-petition calling
0:32:02 > 0:32:05for the government to drop the highly controversial Health Bill
0:32:05 > 0:32:08comfortably sailed past the hundred thousand signature mark, so it
0:32:08 > 0:32:12could now be eligible for a new debate in Parliament. There has
0:32:12 > 0:32:16also been debate amongst Nick Clegg and his deputy Simon Hughes as to
0:32:16 > 0:32:19how long Mr Lansley should hold on to his job. But it is not just Lib
0:32:19 > 0:32:21Dems at the top of the party who are divided over the bill.
0:32:21 > 0:32:24Grassroots members in Winchester have launched their own national
0:32:24 > 0:32:32online petition against it, urging the leadership to withdraw its
0:32:32 > 0:32:40support. Are you full square behind this
0:32:40 > 0:32:44bill? Absolutely. We need to take out lots of bureaucracy and waste
0:32:44 > 0:32:48in the NHS. We have to make sure that GPs and clinicians to deal
0:32:48 > 0:32:56with people on the front line have a greater role in commissioning
0:32:56 > 0:33:02services people want. That is not what is going to happen. Already,
0:33:02 > 0:33:07the bigger organisations are coming in and offering commissioning
0:33:07 > 0:33:12services. Your average GP has enough to do seeing patients and
0:33:12 > 0:33:19making sure they do right by them. There is a good reason why the
0:33:19 > 0:33:23Royal College of GPs have oppose these moves. Some GPs are
0:33:23 > 0:33:28interested in this but they are not yet trained. I think patients will
0:33:28 > 0:33:34lose out. This puts them in the driving seat for. It does not.
0:33:34 > 0:33:36Small committees of GPs have been elected in large areas so there is
0:33:36 > 0:33:46no relationship between the commissioning process and the grass
0:33:46 > 0:33:50
0:33:50 > 0:33:56roots. That is just not true. GPs will drive the Commission. You
0:33:56 > 0:34:03have to remember that PCT is account for nearly 70% of the
0:34:03 > 0:34:11deficit in the NHS -- PCTs. This is designed to take out bureaucracy in
0:34:11 > 0:34:18the NHS. The population is increasing. More cures are being
0:34:18 > 0:34:25found. We have to take out as much waste and bureaucracy as possible.
0:34:25 > 0:34:31This will be disruptive and costly. We have to get this legislation on
0:34:32 > 0:34:39the statute book. How have you read the local risk assessment? There
0:34:39 > 0:34:44are always big risks. I have read some of it. There will always be
0:34:44 > 0:34:52vested interests who will resist change. The BMA did not want the
0:34:52 > 0:34:56NHS in the first place. That old chestnut! It is true. It is
0:34:56 > 0:35:03unprecedented for doctors, nurses and health professionals to come
0:35:03 > 0:35:12out against this bill. Locally, my GPs are looking forward to this.
0:35:12 > 0:35:20They want more power. We don't know how it will work out. Many of these
0:35:20 > 0:35:23changes seem to be happening already. Surely everything that
0:35:23 > 0:35:29happens with the health service from now on will be blamed on this
0:35:29 > 0:35:38bill. On the Isle of Wight, operations have been cancelled due
0:35:38 > 0:35:42to lack of money and beds. reality is that Andrew Lansley is
0:35:42 > 0:35:48the right person to take this through and he has signed up and
0:35:48 > 0:35:53committed to these changes. Sometimes in government you have to
0:35:53 > 0:36:01find out -- take responsibility for difficult decisions. It is not
0:36:01 > 0:36:11about difficult decisions, this is the wrong decision. It is quite
0:36:11 > 0:36:12
0:36:12 > 0:36:18convenient to say that now. It was not in the coalition agreement or
0:36:18 > 0:36:25in our manifesto. Andrew Lansley went into the election on a two
0:36:25 > 0:36:30platforms. One that there would be no top down your organisation.
0:36:30 > 0:36:34became a coalition initiative. should not have done. This paper
0:36:34 > 0:36:39was written during the election. Most of the White Paper leading up
0:36:39 > 0:36:49to the Pill was written during the election. We managed to get some
0:36:49 > 0:36:50
0:36:50 > 0:36:59changes. Lib Dems will take the blame for this, once they? I hope
0:36:59 > 0:37:04not. I hope Andrew Lansley takes the blame for this. Nick Clegg can
0:37:04 > 0:37:10only answer for himself. Some of us came into politics to do what is
0:37:10 > 0:37:16right. Sordid dive. To try to claim some kind of moral high ground is
0:37:16 > 0:37:20ludicrous. The risk assessment is clear that everyone will be so
0:37:20 > 0:37:25immersed in the rear organisation and there is not enough
0:37:25 > 0:37:30commissioning expertise amongst GPs. Patients will suffer. Nearly every
0:37:30 > 0:37:34risk assessment that has been reduced has said that patients will
0:37:34 > 0:37:41suffer. The Government is refusing to publish the National risk
0:37:41 > 0:37:47assessment and we must ask why. With all changes, there are risks.
0:37:47 > 0:37:51It is about assessing potential risks and considering reality. It
0:37:51 > 0:37:55has taken a long time to get this legislation through. Now is the
0:37:55 > 0:38:01right time to press on with reforms to deliver better outcomes for
0:38:01 > 0:38:04patients. We will see what happens. Thank you.
0:38:04 > 0:38:06What is the best way of turning round the fortunes of
0:38:06 > 0:38:09underachieving primary schools? For the Education Secretary, Michael
0:38:09 > 0:38:11Gove, the answer is to transform them into state-funded but self-
0:38:11 > 0:38:14governing academies. One school in Southampton thinks it has found
0:38:14 > 0:38:24another way. Teaching philosophy to five year olds. Our reporter went
0:38:24 > 0:38:38
0:38:38 > 0:38:44Every school day, 1,000 children are suspended for abuse and assault.
0:38:44 > 0:38:5044 teachers were taken to hospital after being attacked by pupils.
0:38:50 > 0:38:58Those are the latest statistics from the Department of Education.
0:38:58 > 0:39:03Now one school in north -- in Southampton are addressing the
0:39:03 > 0:39:10problem by teaching Pollet -- by teaching philosophy. This school
0:39:10 > 0:39:14received a satisfactory rating in 2007. Attendance was not good and
0:39:14 > 0:39:23writing standards were well below average. Five years on, it is a
0:39:23 > 0:39:26different picture. The rating is now a good and the extent to which
0:39:26 > 0:39:31pupils contributed to their school and the community is described as
0:39:31 > 0:39:41outstanding. Much of the success has been put down to the emphasis
0:39:41 > 0:39:41
0:39:41 > 0:39:48on thinking skills and philosophy. It starts at the age of five. The
0:39:48 > 0:39:54teaching goes on to a much deeper level. 10 year-olds initiate and
0:39:54 > 0:39:58discuss philosophical questions. This end is good and this end is
0:39:58 > 0:40:05bad. If you think the word in your hand represents something good, put
0:40:05 > 0:40:10it here. The school is in a socially deprived part of
0:40:11 > 0:40:16Southampton. There are many ethnic minority groups and different
0:40:16 > 0:40:22languages spoken. We want children to be independent within school and
0:40:22 > 0:40:26with -- and outside school as well. We want them to develop these
0:40:26 > 0:40:30thinking skills. In an ever- changing world, you don't know what
0:40:30 > 0:40:34the future holds and these skills will be very important. There is
0:40:34 > 0:40:42such an emphasis on working together and thinking been a social
0:40:42 > 0:40:51activity, rather than Solidarity -- rather than solitary. The children
0:40:51 > 0:40:54are happy to agree and to disagree with each other without that being
0:40:54 > 0:40:59attention. They're learning to accept other ideas and that they're
0:40:59 > 0:41:09not all the is right themselves. Young people need all the help they
0:41:09 > 0:41:15can get to find work. Teaching them to respect other people's point of
0:41:15 > 0:41:23view should help make the world a happier place. I had a few problems
0:41:23 > 0:41:29with some students. I did not fit in with my class. I could not pay
0:41:29 > 0:41:36attention to the work so I used to get into a lot of trouble. But some
0:41:36 > 0:41:40teachers realise that they could help me with looking at other
0:41:41 > 0:41:50people's points of view. I thought about my future, so I aimed for the
0:41:51 > 0:41:51
0:41:51 > 0:41:55highest that I could. I believe in myself and I gave everything a shot.
0:41:55 > 0:42:03And joining us in the studio is Peter Worley who is the CEO from
0:42:03 > 0:42:06The Philosophy Foundation. There are different ways of teaching
0:42:06 > 0:42:14philosophy. Give me an example of the sort of things you pigeon
0:42:14 > 0:42:20across two children. I might say to children that there is a story
0:42:20 > 0:42:25about a minor tour which sails around the ocean for many years.
0:42:25 > 0:42:32During that time, the parts of the vessel get replaced over time.
0:42:32 > 0:42:38Eventually, all of them have been replaced. I give them a model on
0:42:38 > 0:42:42the floor and I say to them, when the ship has part replaced, is at
0:42:42 > 0:42:47the same shape as when it first went out and its journey? That is
0:42:47 > 0:42:51the starting question. Based on what they say, other concerns are
0:42:51 > 0:42:57coming in. It is reasoning rather than teaching facts. You get that
0:42:57 > 0:43:03sort of critical thinking in other subjects. Why do you need to use
0:43:03 > 0:43:08for loss of a? Well, the thing about philosophy is that -- why do
0:43:08 > 0:43:14you have the use philosophy? The thing about philosophy is that it
0:43:14 > 0:43:24is solely concerned with reasoning. In other subjects, reasoning is
0:43:24 > 0:43:25
0:43:25 > 0:43:30involved but it is not explicitly taught. You have do no science or
0:43:30 > 0:43:35history facts before you can consider them. Because philosophy
0:43:35 > 0:43:39is conceptual, it is often called conceptual engineering, you can
0:43:39 > 0:43:45engage with the thinking straight away without having to learn what
0:43:45 > 0:43:54are facts. Schools are busy and curriculums are packed. Is there
0:43:54 > 0:43:59room for philosophy? This is often said. Firstly, I would say that
0:43:59 > 0:44:05philosophy is another ad on subject approach. Actually, there is an
0:44:05 > 0:44:15argument to suggest that philosophy is Foundation will. This comes into
0:44:15 > 0:44:23
0:44:23 > 0:44:28our new campaign. We argue that reasoning is just as important as
0:44:28 > 0:44:35reading, writing and arithmetic. In the Cambridge Review, they said
0:44:35 > 0:44:41that reading and writing had not improved in 50 years because they
0:44:41 > 0:44:48had been teaching to the test and not the understanding. In our film,
0:44:48 > 0:44:56we saw that children were happier to disagree without causing rows.
0:44:56 > 0:45:06We could all learn something from that! Do you have any worries about
0:45:06 > 0:45:08
0:45:08 > 0:45:12this? You are right when you say that this underpins other subjects.
0:45:12 > 0:45:18This reminds me of something they did in Scandinavia with teenagers
0:45:18 > 0:45:23and sexual health. It was about getting them to talk about feelings
0:45:23 > 0:45:27and not just the mechanics but to respect how each other felt. Not
0:45:27 > 0:45:31quite philosophy, but anything which I think helps children to
0:45:31 > 0:45:40think about things from another perspective is a very good thing.
0:45:40 > 0:45:48What worries me is that colleagues at work said that they don't learn
0:45:48 > 0:45:54maths and English properly, so do we really need this? I think we are
0:45:54 > 0:46:02very much in danger of agreeing here! The basics need to be done
0:46:02 > 0:46:07properly first. Most people are concerned about getting the core
0:46:07 > 0:46:14knowledge right at an early stage. What we have to do is build on
0:46:14 > 0:46:17strong foundations. Within the three subjects and the way they are
0:46:17 > 0:46:27taught in terms of the general education in the classroom has to
0:46:27 > 0:46:29
0:46:29 > 0:46:39be taught separately. Isn't there a sense in which if you want to learn
0:46:39 > 0:46:40
0:46:40 > 0:46:45those things well, it is suggested from the research that we need to
0:46:45 > 0:46:49address an understanding. You could use that argument for many subjects.
0:46:49 > 0:46:53You could say that if you want to understand different cultures and
0:46:53 > 0:47:01religions, you should bring religious education in at an
0:47:01 > 0:47:05earlier stage. Where do you stop? That is where we have to stop, I am
0:47:05 > 0:47:15afraid! Now our regular round-up of the
0:47:15 > 0:47:15
0:47:15 > 0:47:21political week in the South in 60 seconds.
0:47:21 > 0:47:27The problem of metal theft has persuaded Surrey County Council to
0:47:27 > 0:47:33change road signs and manhole covers to be plastic. They cost
0:47:33 > 0:47:39more but they say it is necessary. Lots of other local authorities
0:47:39 > 0:47:43have already done this or will be doing this soon. People living in
0:47:43 > 0:47:52Salisbury, Southampton and Reading don't feel good about where they
0:47:52 > 0:47:57live. But Dorchester, Oxford, Brighton and Bournemouth do.
0:47:57 > 0:48:07Councils were setting budgets this week. The dispute in Southampton
0:48:07 > 0:48:11
0:48:11 > 0:48:16saw more demonstrations on the street. Unions start legal action
0:48:16 > 0:48:22against wage decreases soon. And Chris Huhne and his ex-wife were
0:48:22 > 0:48:27asked to sit next to each other in at the dock.
0:48:27 > 0:48:34People in Salisbury don't feel so good about where they love. I find
0:48:34 > 0:48:37that very difficult to believe. Most people I know come their from
0:48:37 > 0:48:46outside the area at and there happy to live there. I don't recognise
0:48:46 > 0:48:56that. I represented part of Southampton. It is a city with a
0:48:56 > 0:48:59
0:48:59 > 0:49:05lot going for it. I think this is a survey with homeowners and it is a
0:49:05 > 0:49:13difficult time at the moment. I think this is a north and south
0:49:13 > 0:49:22divide. People grumble, but I think we have many nice part in our
0:49:22 > 0:49:27region. I will be moving to Salisbury soon went it sits my
0:49:27 > 0:49:34children to move school. I wanted to move here, but had to do the