:01:27. > :01:29.In the South: Taking out the trash. The
:01:29. > :01:32.government's offering councils extra money to bring back weekly
:01:32. > :01:42.bin collections. But will that encourage us to recycle more or
:01:42. > :01:42.
:01:42. > :32:10.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1827 seconds
:32:10. > :32:13.Welcome to Sunday Politics South. My name's Peter Henley. On today's
:32:13. > :32:16.show: It may be rubbish to you and me,
:32:16. > :32:19.but to councils, it can be a real headache. We've had umpteen schemes
:32:19. > :32:23.trying to get us to recycle more and throw away less, and now the
:32:23. > :32:27.government's offering extra cash to bring back weekly collections.
:32:27. > :32:30.More on that later in the programme. First, let me introduce you to the
:32:30. > :32:34.politicians who'll be with me for the next 20 minutes. And in a small
:32:34. > :32:36.break with tradition on account of the Budget, we have three this week.
:32:36. > :32:39.George Hollingbery is the Conservative MP for Meon Valley,
:32:39. > :32:42.Gerald Vernon Jackson is the Lib Dem leader of Portsmouth City
:32:42. > :32:49.Council and Richard Williams is the leader of the Labour group on
:32:49. > :32:54.Southampton City Council. A senior Conservative told me what
:32:54. > :32:58.I thought was quite a good one liner after the Budget. He said,
:32:58. > :33:04.the reason that that they are getting rid of the warnings on the
:33:04. > :33:10.back of cigarette packets and making it a blank packet, it is not
:33:10. > :33:15.a healthy thing, it is so that they have got trim for the new policies
:33:15. > :33:18.the accolade -- the Coalition are dreaming up. The freeze on
:33:18. > :33:27.pensioners allowances did feel a little bit like that. I think times,
:33:27. > :33:31.as we know only too well, are very tough. There was a very complex set
:33:31. > :33:35.of release at the top of the tax system for pensioners. After quite
:33:35. > :33:41.a number of decades, is there any real reason why a pensioner should
:33:41. > :33:46.have a different personal allowance? So, it is revenue rising,
:33:46. > :33:50.not simplifying? It is clearly a combination of both. I do not think
:33:50. > :33:54.anybody would be wise if they said it was not about raising money.
:33:54. > :33:58.they make a mistake by not saying that? They think it might have been
:33:58. > :34:03.advisable to put it more on the table, but if you look into it, it
:34:03. > :34:09.does seem to me that pensioners have been protected in many ways
:34:09. > :34:13.across this budget on the previous few. And to take away a small have
:34:13. > :34:17.added that top end does not seem wildly unfair. There is a point in
:34:18. > :34:22.that. The baby boomers who are coming to retire now had a relief
:34:22. > :34:26.on their mortgages, have their tuition fees paid at university.
:34:26. > :34:31.Conveyor for this tax? I think it is completely the wrong choice at a
:34:31. > :34:38.time when we have, as a Government, the Government appears to be
:34:38. > :34:42.reducing tax for the very richest people in the country. Nothing
:34:42. > :34:46.against Wayne Rooney, but does he really needs another 50 of thousand
:34:46. > :34:52.pounds in every million pounds that he earns? One pensioners and people
:34:52. > :34:55.struggling are going to be hit. We were at the other day and it was
:34:55. > :35:00.raised by many people. They went out on Thursday. The amount of
:35:00. > :35:05.people who said, that is just the way this Government is. I think it
:35:05. > :35:10.is a wrong choice that a wrong time. If Labour is not like that, why
:35:10. > :35:15.would the 50 pence rate not go back in the manifesto? I'm sure when I
:35:16. > :35:21.speak to him, I will be suggesting that. Even if it raises more money?
:35:21. > :35:28.Would you say, no, go back to 50p? It certainly needs to be raised and
:35:28. > :35:33.discussed. The Liberal Democrats have been saying, we have got the
:35:34. > :35:40.mansion tax. We have got the tycoon tax. They have not. What
:35:40. > :35:45.concessions have you got? Are a thing two concessions. The first is
:35:45. > :35:49.taking 2 million people out of tax, the people at the very bottom of
:35:49. > :35:53.the pile Hoare of learning... Conservatives like that? Absolutely.
:35:53. > :35:58.I'm glad we have been able to persuade the Government do that. We
:35:58. > :36:02.have also persuaded the Government to reduce taxes for 21 million
:36:02. > :36:05.people in are the country. I think that is extremely good. I do not
:36:05. > :36:11.like everything in the Budget. what you not like? A I would have
:36:11. > :36:14.cut the 50 pence tax rate. If you have done that and maybe offered
:36:14. > :36:18.him more to people at the end of the scale? In all these things, you
:36:18. > :36:22.have to have a debate. The issue, even though it is important for the
:36:22. > :36:27.image of the 50 pence tax rate, so that people realise everybody has
:36:27. > :36:31.to pay it, but it actually was not a very effective tax. It did not
:36:31. > :36:37.bring in very much money. If we are going to increase the stamp duty on
:36:37. > :36:42.homes, very expensive homes, to 7%, that is probably a reasonable thing
:36:42. > :36:48.to do. But the image of it is the problem. Is the Coalition and
:36:48. > :36:52.stronger after this Budget? I think it is stronger by default in that
:36:52. > :36:55.everyone has nailed their colours to the mast. They are part of the
:36:55. > :36:59.Government. This is not a difference between, we have got
:36:59. > :37:04.this out of the Government. They are part of the Government. Adair
:37:04. > :37:07.would say about the 45p tax rate, instinctively, all politicians at
:37:07. > :37:12.the moment want to leave it where it does. But I really want to go
:37:12. > :37:18.out and talk about people -- talk to people about reducing the top
:37:18. > :37:21.rate of tax? No, I do not. But, surely the right thing to do is put
:37:21. > :37:25.the tax rate at the point where it raises the most money. That is the
:37:25. > :37:29.problem we are facing. Politically, it would have been terribly easy
:37:29. > :37:35.for George Osborne to turn round and say, it is not the right time.
:37:35. > :37:39.It is raising �500 million. Has he done the brave thing here? I think
:37:39. > :37:43.it is the wrong thing to do. The humour of the optimum level for tax,
:37:43. > :37:48.I believe that is �48. everybody seems to have a different
:37:48. > :37:52.version. I think the �50 level sent a message that if you were more,
:37:52. > :37:56.you pay more. That people want to avoid tax, this is what no one has
:37:56. > :38:01.talked about, why are you wanting to be part of the United Kingdom?
:38:01. > :38:05.If you would be part of the United Kingdom and the won �150,000 a year,
:38:05. > :38:12.you have a legal and moral responsibility to pay their tax. If
:38:12. > :38:19.you want to have provided, then live abroad. What we need to be
:38:19. > :38:23.making sure is that the attack that -- cut down on tax havens. People
:38:23. > :38:28.should be paying tax on everything. That has been a real feeling for
:38:28. > :38:33.decades, that we have not cracked the issue of tax havens. What about
:38:33. > :38:37.regional pay? Do you think that is a good idea that we should be able
:38:37. > :38:42.to pay more on the south from we have got shortages? It is a real
:38:42. > :38:45.complexity. There are going to be at odds effects throughout the
:38:45. > :38:49.country if you put that in place. They have been talking about the
:38:49. > :38:53.difficulties we have more depressed areas like a bigger cities against
:38:53. > :38:57.wealthier areas and how that most staff around. But the simple fact
:38:57. > :39:01.is that in parts of the north-east, the public sector is the but for --
:39:01. > :39:04.biggest employer. It depresses private business. They cannot
:39:04. > :39:09.compete to get the best people because the public sector pay is
:39:09. > :39:13.higher than they can afford. provide flexibility. Would you be
:39:14. > :39:22.in favour of it gravlax certainly. But we have to be careful how we
:39:22. > :39:25.implemented. It is a very dangerous policy to step on. The hall purpose
:39:25. > :39:28.-- the whole purpose is that we try to work together in local
:39:28. > :39:31.Government so that for the worry health worker or a social worker in
:39:31. > :39:36.Newcastle or Portsmouth or Southampton, you will pay for the
:39:36. > :39:40.same job. That is what this is about. Is someone in Newcastle poor
:39:40. > :39:44.is looking after vulnerable children worth less than somebody
:39:44. > :39:49.looking after vulnerable children in Portsmouth? They are being paid
:39:49. > :39:54.more in Newcastle because the cost of living is less. Everybody should
:39:54. > :39:57.be treated the same for the same job. There are other factors. There
:39:57. > :40:02.are housing differences. There are economic differences. Where do you
:40:02. > :40:05.draw the line? Is the wrong thing to do. It is sending the wrong
:40:05. > :40:09.message that you what was more in this part of the country than in
:40:09. > :40:14.that part of the country. It is the job that they perform which is
:40:14. > :40:17.equally important as in Newcastle as anyone else. The practical
:40:17. > :40:22.problems with a target when you break things into small units and
:40:22. > :40:26.negotiate, the employers tend to be pushed up to pay more.
:40:26. > :40:29.Buckinghamshire broke away from the local-government pay deal which all
:40:29. > :40:33.councils are normally done, and they have ended up paying more than
:40:33. > :40:36.the surrounding areas. I think is good news for people who want to
:40:36. > :40:43.push up pay for people in the public sector, it is bad news for
:40:43. > :40:46.those who have to run the businesses. If you keep up pay
:40:46. > :40:50.rates high in places like the north-east, you make that sector
:40:50. > :40:54.much larger and in difficult times like we are facing, the public
:40:54. > :40:59.sector has to pay less and spend less and you automatically make
:40:59. > :41:03.things more difficult. Do you devalue the work that people do in
:41:03. > :41:08.different parts of the country if you give them different pay rates?
:41:08. > :41:11.How do you judge house prices? According to Eric Pickles, having
:41:12. > :41:14.your bins emptied every week is a basic right. He's so keen on it
:41:14. > :41:18.that he's offering �250 million to help councils bring back weekly
:41:18. > :41:22.collections. But the department won't say how many have expressed
:41:22. > :41:24.an interest. The deadline for that was ten days ago. And anyway, as
:41:24. > :41:34.Tiffany Foster reports, there are almost as many different schemes
:41:34. > :41:40.
:41:40. > :41:44.for taking out the trash as there It is all rather a mess. A lot of
:41:44. > :41:49.people do not know what is going on. The beauty of local Government is
:41:49. > :41:53.that each council, and they are locally elected and are able to
:41:53. > :42:02.choose which system of collection may think their residents like.
:42:02. > :42:05.just wish that we could do it a In the past 20 years, what we throw
:42:05. > :42:08.away and how we deal with waste has changed dramatically. Things like
:42:08. > :42:18.landfill tax, improved ways to recycle rubbish has meant big
:42:18. > :42:18.
:42:18. > :42:22.changes in the way we think about It's exceedingly confusing,
:42:22. > :42:26.especially if you live in Berkshire. Here, the unitary authorities act
:42:26. > :42:32.independently of each other. Every one has a collection and disposal
:42:32. > :42:36.system slightly different to the neighbouring one.
:42:36. > :42:39.In Reading, they're sticking to fortnightly collections. So it's
:42:39. > :42:44.general rubbish one week and recycling the next. So you get a
:42:44. > :42:47.grey bin, a red bin and a green bin, and it's free.
:42:47. > :42:51.In West Berkshire, they also collect on alternate weeks. So one
:42:51. > :42:58.week it's the black bin for general rubbish, the next it's a green box
:42:58. > :43:03.for bottles and glass, card and paper. A green sack for plastics
:43:03. > :43:07.and tin, a green bin for food waste and a green bin for garden waste.
:43:07. > :43:13.And it's all free. In Wokingham, it's weekly
:43:13. > :43:16.collections. So it's black bags, soon to be blue bags, black boxes
:43:16. > :43:25.for recycling, green sacks, soon to be brown bins, for garden waste,
:43:25. > :43:34.but this will now cost you �60. There's no food waste collection or
:43:34. > :43:44.Long-time residents like Peter Teague in Wokingham have embraced
:43:44. > :43:52.the changes. But the latest round is a step too far. It is ridiculous.
:43:52. > :43:56.I cannot believe that something that was working so well, they
:43:56. > :44:00.divided into three separate sections and three different bits
:44:00. > :44:05.of organisation. It seems madness. The solution is simple, the council
:44:05. > :44:12.insists. Households should just throw away less. We need to reduce
:44:12. > :44:15.that down to about 8.8 kilograms per property per week. We have
:44:15. > :44:21.introduced our blue Agnes scheme which gives a residents' eight blue
:44:21. > :44:29.bags, 6,400 litres a year that they can use throughout the year. That
:44:29. > :44:33.is equivalent to more 8240 litre wheelie bin ends at every fortnight.
:44:33. > :44:35.-- emptied every fortnight. What a lot of numbers. But do the
:44:35. > :44:41.figures really add up? Local opposition group councillors think
:44:41. > :44:45.not. The intention is right but I do not understand it how just
:44:45. > :44:50.providing people with a tea bags a year for their normal rubbish is
:44:50. > :44:54.going to make the rest of the rubbish away. They are predicting a
:44:54. > :44:58.20% reduction in the amount of landfill waste, but they are not
:44:58. > :45:01.saying how they're going to get people to will throw us away.
:45:01. > :45:03.Looming large over all of this is the Secretary of State Eric
:45:04. > :45:07.Pickles' promise of cash for councils who bring back weekly
:45:07. > :45:17.collections. Since even some Tory councils have rejected this, it
:45:17. > :45:22.
:45:22. > :45:26.begs the question, is this all a You are going to tell me that the
:45:26. > :45:30.way they collected in Portsmouth is the best way, but, you are, aren't
:45:30. > :45:35.you? A I'm going to say it is right for Portsmouth. It might not be
:45:35. > :45:38.right for somewhere else. But Sydney is not right for Wokingham.
:45:38. > :45:44.Surely all these ideas are always full. But everybody adopted the
:45:44. > :45:49.same, it would be more efficient. But Manchester is a rural area.
:45:49. > :45:53.Portsmouth is different. We are a city. We have got terraced streets,
:45:53. > :45:58.block of flats. They have got to work out a system. In Portsmouth,
:45:58. > :46:03.we have cut the weekly rubbish collection. I take the point about
:46:03. > :46:09.the city and the country, but that man said it is wasteful, ridiculous,
:46:09. > :46:13.badness. Difficult for people to get their heads around. I do not
:46:13. > :46:20.think it does. People manage to make it work reasonably well. In
:46:20. > :46:24.each local area, we can work out what is right. While it is a Eric
:46:24. > :46:28.Pickles spending all this money, so determined to get the weekly
:46:28. > :46:32.collection? Is it one of those promises he made that has come to
:46:32. > :46:36.regret? I agree this is a local matter. It is entirely down to
:46:36. > :46:41.local councils tooth of the issue of the way they see fit. That is
:46:41. > :46:49.what local Government is for. While this does -- Willey's different
:46:49. > :46:54.schemes? It is down to local councils to resource and spend the
:46:54. > :46:58.money the way babies it -- they said, the way they see fit. If Eric
:46:58. > :47:02.Pickles wants to make money available to help them make choices,
:47:02. > :47:09.let them make their choices. But what I have to say, when I was a
:47:09. > :47:12.councillor, it was put in by a weekly collections. One is
:47:12. > :47:16.recycling and won his domestic refuge. There were a few teething
:47:16. > :47:20.problems, but on the hall, everybody thinks it is fine.
:47:20. > :47:24.know how much people care about their rubbish. During the strike,
:47:24. > :47:28.it piled up. People in Southampton would like the council to collect
:47:28. > :47:32.the waist. They have not done that. The Tory administration has been
:47:32. > :47:39.rubbish about it. They have caused so much anger and dissatisfaction.
:47:39. > :47:41.I think it was the strike. He will -- we will decide whether your
:47:41. > :47:46.wallet to the strike or not. There are some leaflets around
:47:46. > :47:49.Southampton. They are not made by us, they are made by the Tories.
:47:49. > :47:53.They are pointing out that people were very unhappy about the strike
:47:53. > :47:57.when the pins were not collected. They quite rightly want their bins
:47:57. > :48:01.emptied. This council cannot guarantee to do that. But the
:48:01. > :48:06.Labour take control, we will take the bins when there should be taken.
:48:06. > :48:11.Are they being properly corrected? What you think about weekly
:48:11. > :48:15.collections? In Southampton, there are more ready weekly collections.
:48:15. > :48:19.We are excluded from that process already. But as a bit of a non-
:48:19. > :48:24.issue. We bid to get some money out of it on the basis that we went to
:48:24. > :48:28.keep the weekly collections. dear. Competition.
:48:28. > :48:38.Now our regular roundup of the political week in the South in 60
:48:38. > :48:42.
:48:42. > :48:46.Well to police brought in night- vision goggles this week to crack
:48:46. > :48:50.down on the spate of midnight vegetable threat -- fest. The
:48:50. > :48:55.parish council paid for the far- sighted solution. Winchester City
:48:55. > :48:58.Council had to apologise after a 1000 people were sent someone
:48:58. > :49:02.else's personal information along with council tax bills. And
:49:02. > :49:07.Wiltshire and Dorset buses are struggling with a fuel bill of
:49:07. > :49:11.nearly �1 million. Fares will rise substantially. The three Armed
:49:11. > :49:16.forces combine to sign a covenant on Wednesday for better treatment
:49:16. > :49:20.from Portsmouth council. It can be about getting on to the local GP
:49:20. > :49:24.waiting list of getting to see a dentist. And sometimes, that can be
:49:24. > :49:30.more difficult for servicemen and women and their families.
:49:30. > :49:33.Dorset MP for got his military training. He was late on parade.
:49:33. > :49:43.But the Speaker called in for a question about rescue helicopter
:49:43. > :49:45.
:49:45. > :49:49.When you have got a complaint to the boss on his big day on budget
:49:49. > :49:54.day, it is best to be in the right place. A indeed. I was sitting
:49:54. > :49:59.right next to him. Slightly awkward moment. He was a bit embarrassed.
:49:59. > :50:02.The military Government. The roll- out was plain that. It was not the
:50:02. > :50:05.case at all. Surely, if you are signing an agreement with these
:50:05. > :50:09.people, what you're doing is saying, we will give you some extra
:50:09. > :50:12.treatment. A no, it is saying we will work hard with the military
:50:12. > :50:16.and military families to try and make sure that they get the
:50:16. > :50:20.services. They are different from other people. But we need to be in
:50:20. > :50:24.tune with that and work with them. A whole series of things we can do.
:50:24. > :50:27.We can try to make sure all schools across the country recognise that
:50:27. > :50:30.same this families and children need different things. Put a line
:50:30. > :50:34.in the Ofsted report on every school things, how what we working
:50:34. > :50:37.with service families? You are not doing that with other groups of
:50:38. > :50:42.people. He won not saying you will find a special way of dealing with
:50:42. > :50:45.them. We have lots of different groups and we work for them in
:50:45. > :50:48.different ways. Council house tenants are a different group. We
:50:48. > :50:51.would be them differently. The elderly get a different service. It
:50:51. > :50:54.is Trent Bridge sure we do not provide exactly the same for
:50:54. > :50:58.everybody because that does not work. Service families have
:50:58. > :51:02.particularly needs that we'd be recognised. There was extra money
:51:02. > :51:06.for the military in the Budget. Indeed. There was money for
:51:06. > :51:09.refurbishing service accommodation and dealing with Council Tax what's
:51:09. > :51:13.the men are a way fighting. There is a clear recognition from the
:51:13. > :51:23.Government that more needs to be done. He managed to get a good play
:51:23. > :51:27.again for the Labour campaign and the local election in a Southampton.
:51:27. > :51:32.His the effect going to make a difference? Obviously. A very
:51:32. > :51:36.tragic situation. All credit to everybody involved in overpowering
:51:36. > :51:41.what was obviously a very deranged individual. All credit for people
:51:41. > :51:46.involved. Just thinking about this local elections which are coming,
:51:46. > :51:52.is it going to be difficult? They are never easy. You have good days
:51:52. > :51:55.and you have not so good days. Thank you very much for being are