:01:37. > :01:42.In the south: At the view from Strasbourg. As opinion polls put
:01:42. > :01:52.the UK Independence Party ahead of the Lib Dems, we get reaction from
:01:52. > :01:52.
:01:52. > :30:35.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1723 seconds
:30:35. > :30:37.Welcome to Sunday Politics South - my name's Peter Henley. On today's
:30:37. > :30:40.show: As the UK Independence Party
:30:40. > :30:43.overtakes the Liberal Democrats in two opinion polls, I've been to
:30:43. > :30:53.Strasbourg to get the party leader's view on life as the third
:30:53. > :30:53.
:30:53. > :30:58.most popular party. More on that later. First, let us meet the two
:30:58. > :31:03.politicians who will be with us. Lord Jim Knight of Weymouth was the
:31:03. > :31:09.MP for South Dorset until the last election. And Damien Heinz is the
:31:09. > :31:14.Conservative MP for East Hampshire. Jim, a lot of talk about reform in
:31:14. > :31:23.the House of Lords. You have been there a little while now. Two years.
:31:23. > :31:30.You are still keen to make it 100% elected? I always said when I took
:31:30. > :31:36.my seat there are would be a turkey vote at Christmas. I would say,
:31:36. > :31:43.let's reserve 25% for the independent members and go with an
:31:43. > :31:47.elected 75%. Personally, I'd advocate when we have a general
:31:47. > :31:51.election to vote for MPs, we then tally up nationally the share of
:31:51. > :31:59.the vote and allocate seats and House of Lords according to that.
:32:00. > :32:03.You have been the MP and you can really do it as a law, could you?
:32:03. > :32:08.The problem if you have a constituency is to become a rival
:32:08. > :32:14.to the local MP, you have an office the taxpayer pays for, staff that
:32:14. > :32:18.the tax payer pays for, and in the end you are also more allied to the
:32:18. > :32:23.are -- the party line rather than the independents, which is valued
:32:23. > :32:30.in the Lords. The Lords should unrivalled the Commons in forming
:32:30. > :32:34.the government, in scrutinising the government. It should continue its
:32:34. > :32:40.really good role in helping to improve our law-making, our
:32:40. > :32:44.legislation. It is that function we have to protect when we perform it.
:32:44. > :32:49.Damian, you are very keen on changing the way Parliament works
:32:49. > :32:55.as a new MP. But on this one, Conservatives are kicking up a bit
:32:55. > :33:02.of a stink, are made? Actually, I agree with a great deal of what Jim
:33:02. > :33:07.said. I think we had to wait and see what colleagues say. The House
:33:07. > :33:10.of Lords does need more democratic legitimacy, so modernisation is
:33:10. > :33:13.right. But we are also Conservatives, so we believe that
:33:13. > :33:18.when we're changing things, particularly when they are related
:33:18. > :33:22.to the constitution, you do it carefully and make sure there will
:33:22. > :33:27.not be unattended consequences. Does that extent to wanting a
:33:27. > :33:32.referendum on whatever the solution is that Parliament comes up with?
:33:32. > :33:40.Well, we have a Liberal Parliamentary democracy, and having
:33:40. > :33:49.referenda is a rare thing. We do for mayors. A I don't totally rule
:33:49. > :33:57.it out. You were keen for a referendum on the Yucatan. I was,
:33:57. > :34:02.and I ate think that would be a good thing. My own view was that it
:34:02. > :34:08.would be better in terms of getting a confirmation that there was
:34:08. > :34:14.support. I can't promise you a referendum. All these great
:34:14. > :34:17.political ideas! It is a local government decision, I respect that.
:34:17. > :34:22.They have to make their case to the public in the same way that I'd do
:34:22. > :34:29.over issues to do with what happens at Westminster. We will talk more
:34:29. > :34:33.shortly. If you have a baby, your employer
:34:33. > :34:36.will give you paid time off - six months for maternity leave - and
:34:36. > :34:39.there's now a decent time off for dads too. It's your legal right.
:34:39. > :34:42.But what if, tragically, your child dies? Should you be entitled in law
:34:42. > :34:45.to time off to cope with your bereavement? That's what Lucy Hurd
:34:45. > :34:48.from Sanghurst in Berkshire is campaigning for. Her son Jack died
:34:48. > :34:51.suddenly 18 months ago, and she learned that most employers only
:34:51. > :34:54.allow three days bereavement leave - one day of which has to be the
:34:54. > :34:57.funeral. Now, she's calling on the government to change the law. Her
:34:57. > :35:07.e-petition on the Number 10 website suggests employers provide up to 12
:35:07. > :35:08.
:35:08. > :35:13.weeks if needed. I am pleased to say Lucy is with me now. You were
:35:13. > :35:18.saying one of your wretched -- relatives is a suffragette, it is
:35:18. > :35:24.in your blood. But this came out of such a difficult situation. Yes,
:35:24. > :35:28.and fortunately our son Jack died, he drowned in a garden pond. It has
:35:28. > :35:35.been a difficult time. And what made it harder was this situation
:35:35. > :35:41.where you were not able to take time off work. My ex-partner and my
:35:42. > :35:45.family all had to go back to work. Some had three days, I think the
:35:45. > :35:49.most was five days. That is when I discovered you don't get a lot of
:35:49. > :35:52.time off when a child dies. that extra time would have helped
:35:53. > :35:57.you in what way? It would have helped a great deal to have my
:35:57. > :36:03.family around me to support me. I do have two other children, so I
:36:03. > :36:09.was doing it all on my own. My family was in Berkshire and I was
:36:09. > :36:15.up and the Lake District so they couldn't even just pop round.
:36:15. > :36:18.everybody copes with death in different ways. Some people might
:36:18. > :36:27.want to get back to work. I suppose that would be their choice.
:36:28. > :36:36.would be. You should have a choice, but at the moment it is the
:36:36. > :36:40.employee as deciding the choice. Some employers would be better off,
:36:40. > :36:44.but I suppose you wanted to be changed in Los so it is available
:36:44. > :36:48.to people. I think it should be legislated so that employers don't
:36:48. > :36:55.just give the three days off, they can give you a lot more time off
:36:55. > :36:58.and you can go back to a job. Damian, obviously people are
:36:58. > :37:02.sympathetic with Lucy's situation. But your party is saying businesses
:37:02. > :37:07.should not have too much regulation. Is this an area where you say
:37:07. > :37:11.common sense should prevail? Well, I think for anybody who has not
:37:11. > :37:19.been what -- through what Lucy has been through, it is difficult to
:37:19. > :37:23.comprehend the enormity of the loss and I can see why you were shocked
:37:23. > :37:26.at the circumstances you and your family found themselves in. I hope
:37:26. > :37:34.you should not need legislation for that kind of thing. You expect
:37:34. > :37:39.employers to do the right thing. Employers are the people who 1
:37:39. > :37:42.hopes have compassion. But maybe it is something to look at and what
:37:42. > :37:46.Lizzie is doing in terms of the petition, trying to raise the
:37:47. > :37:51.profile with people in Parliament and more broadly will get more
:37:51. > :37:53.discussion and it is good there should be a debate. In other
:37:53. > :38:00.countries, Jim, this is something which has been changed. Do you
:38:00. > :38:04.think we should be keeping up? I only really thought about it
:38:04. > :38:12.since I knew I was coming on the programme, so the campaign least he
:38:12. > :38:17.has started is an important one and an effective one. I saw in some US
:38:17. > :38:20.states they have is regulation and I'm certainly very sympathetic and
:38:20. > :38:27.want to talk to the employer organisations, because this is not
:38:27. > :38:31.going to happen very often within a business. It's not a huge cost.
:38:31. > :38:37.It's not, and I think some balance between an entitlement to unpaid
:38:37. > :38:41.and paid leave to help deal with it seems quite a sensible thing for
:38:41. > :38:48.Lucy to campaign for an far as to listen to and consider. We need to
:38:48. > :38:52.see if we can come up with a solution to make sure everybody,
:38:52. > :38:55.regardless of who is employing them, just have a security. We can
:38:55. > :39:03.understand why you're so motivated about this and the petition is
:39:03. > :39:08.there. Do you feel you are being listened to? I do and I don't. I've
:39:08. > :39:13.started to believe that I am, hence I am here having a chat about it.
:39:13. > :39:17.But I am just doing this on my own. But I have learnt so much on my
:39:17. > :39:22.journey over the past 12 months, of other people's journeys as well.
:39:22. > :39:27.That is what has made me more passionate. It is not just me who
:39:27. > :39:30.has experienced it, it's a lot of people. And light he said,
:39:30. > :39:35.companies should have the compassion in them to give them
:39:35. > :39:39.that time off, but unfortunately not many do. Yes, there are some
:39:39. > :39:47.that will give you the amount of time that you require, and yes you
:39:47. > :39:53.can take sick leave and you can take a holiday, but once that has
:39:53. > :39:57.gone, it's... You a pretty determined about this, aren't you?
:39:57. > :40:02.I am, I want to raise awareness, I wanted to be taught about. Because
:40:02. > :40:05.unless you have been there, you don't know what is not available.
:40:05. > :40:10.And for a family to find that actually their partners or
:40:10. > :40:17.immediate family have to go back to work so soon, it's a hard thing to
:40:17. > :40:20.try to deal with. Well done, keep going. Nice to see you.
:40:20. > :40:23.This week, two opinion polls showed more people saying they would vote
:40:23. > :40:26.for the UK Independence Party than the Liberal Democrats in a general
:40:26. > :40:30.election. It's partly the Lib Dems slipping down below nine percent -
:40:30. > :40:33.but is this an anti-Europe vote, or a simple mid-term protest? And what
:40:33. > :40:36.does it say that a party with no seats at Westminster is now the
:40:36. > :40:39.third most popular? The leader of UKIP of course is Nigel Farage,
:40:39. > :40:42.elected here in the South of England as a Member of the European
:40:42. > :40:49.Parliament, so to get answers to those questions earlier this week I
:40:49. > :40:54.took the Eurostar over to the continent to see him.
:40:54. > :40:59.It's a protest vote, of course, the Union Jack fluttering from Nigel
:40:59. > :41:03.Farage's offers, part of his culture of defiance. But he says
:41:03. > :41:07.popular support now proves his party offers more than that. If you
:41:07. > :41:11.are a small business beleaguered by EU rules, one way to deal with it
:41:11. > :41:15.is to leave the union and give power back to Westminster to deal
:41:15. > :41:19.with employment legislation, for example. If you believe that
:41:19. > :41:24.massive immigration over the past few years has reached such a level
:41:24. > :41:29.that it is directly contributing to 21% youth employment in a country,
:41:29. > :41:34.rather than just wringing your hands, we are offering a policy
:41:34. > :41:39.solution. Pushing Lib Dems into fourth place in this poll makes
:41:39. > :41:47.marriage more popular than the deputy Prime Minister. -- makes
:41:47. > :41:51.mark Nigel Farage. I believe it is a party that brings together some
:41:51. > :41:57.people whose ideologies are extreme right wing, together with many
:41:57. > :42:01.people who have a grouse against the modern world as it is. That can
:42:01. > :42:05.be a danger, I did believe it will be, because in the end of the
:42:05. > :42:07.British people are pretty sensible about these things. We have not
:42:08. > :42:13.gone for extreme solutions in the last couple of hundred years and I
:42:13. > :42:16.don't think we are about to now. Graham is a former leader of mal de
:42:16. > :42:22.grouping and has just published a booklet to fight back against what
:42:22. > :42:26.he says on its about Britain's membership of the you. The big
:42:26. > :42:30.challenges we face on a daily basis: Population, growth,
:42:30. > :42:34.migration, climate change and energy security, fighting
:42:35. > :42:38.internationally organised crime, making our economy work better,
:42:38. > :42:41.these are supra national challenges and you need to be part of a
:42:41. > :42:48.supranational organisation if you want to defend the interest of your
:42:48. > :42:54.people and promote the values of your people. Millions of votes to
:42:54. > :42:58.elect just nine individuals to sit in these chairs. Amongst 754
:42:58. > :43:01.members of the European Parliament in Strasbourg, eurosceptics would
:43:01. > :43:05.say, how can they make any difference? But those in favour of
:43:05. > :43:09.the European project would argue our participation here in this
:43:09. > :43:13.debating chamber is what gives us all as individuals rights as
:43:13. > :43:18.European citizens as well as British citizens. From that they
:43:18. > :43:23.are to Portugal, more than 300,000 British people come to work in
:43:23. > :43:28.Europe, and their qualifications are recognised. And another 350,000
:43:28. > :43:32.Brits have retired to the Mediterranean warmth with the
:43:32. > :43:36.healthcare in benefits pay for. But is what we pay for to be part of
:43:36. > :43:40.the Union worth it? The cost of running European institutions is
:43:40. > :43:44.notorious, not least the �150 million a year to maintain the
:43:45. > :43:54.these buildings in Strasbourg which duplicate ones already available in
:43:55. > :43:57.
:43:57. > :44:01.Brussels. It is not just you Kip demanding reform. The party have
:44:01. > :44:06.got to a level in the polls were they cannot win any seats put a
:44:06. > :44:11.stop lots of Conservatives winning seats. And that in the long run is
:44:11. > :44:18.obviously not in the Conservative Party's interests, and nor really
:44:18. > :44:23.is it in interest of the voter who once the kind of success in the UK
:44:23. > :44:28.that both parties push for. So there has to be some way of
:44:28. > :44:34.resolving this issue so that the centre-right eurosceptic vote is no
:44:34. > :44:37.longer split. But Nigel Farage insists he won't cut a deal with
:44:37. > :44:41.Conservatives. Generally, if you want to do a deal with people, if
:44:41. > :44:46.you want to co-operate with people, you don't go on for a decade or
:44:46. > :44:50.more abusing people. At the moment, I still think we are in the abuse
:44:50. > :44:56.phase. But it might change? A lot could change. The eurozone could
:44:56. > :45:01.collapse this year, not just with financial implications for Europe,
:45:01. > :45:05.but for the UK as well. Politics is in flux. I have not got a crystal
:45:05. > :45:10.ball, all I know is that things we are fighting for an saying are
:45:10. > :45:20.being believed by more and more people. Well, I will ask you that
:45:20. > :45:24.
:45:24. > :45:28.referendum question again. A Conservative doesn't getting
:45:29. > :45:32.because of the Independence Party vote. He says, if you had a simple
:45:32. > :45:36.referendum, that would neutralise the threat. What do you think?
:45:36. > :45:42.don't think we should be getting out of Europe. I do feel strongly
:45:42. > :45:46.about reform of the EU, and I think that is where David Cameron is. We
:45:46. > :45:49.want to change the way the EU works and change the nature of the
:45:49. > :45:56.relationship of this country with it, but pulling out altogether is
:45:57. > :46:01.not the right thing to do. You're in favour of referendums to make
:46:01. > :46:05.people decide on this. That's the frustration which seems to fuel the
:46:05. > :46:08.Independence Party. Well, we elect governments who have to put
:46:08. > :46:16.together a programme a cause all aspects of what you do in
:46:16. > :46:20.government in terms of the economy, foreign affairs, everything else.
:46:21. > :46:24.You either have an anti-European stance or a pro-European stance. We
:46:24. > :46:29.now have a eurosceptic stance, Sir David Cameron has a mandate to
:46:30. > :46:32.change the relationship and tried to get powers back to stem the flow
:46:32. > :46:40.of pointless regulations that come from Europe. I think that is the
:46:40. > :46:44.right thing to do. To him, we have seen a surge of support for the
:46:44. > :46:49.right-wing parties in France. Marie Le Pen is talking about bureaucracy
:46:49. > :46:58.and immigration and other things. Is this just mid-term blues or is
:46:58. > :47:01.their grumpiness about politics in general? I think the search for
:47:01. > :47:07.Nigel Farage and the polls is due to the near-collapse of the euro
:47:07. > :47:13.and partly due to four weeks of discussion about disastrous budgets.
:47:13. > :47:19.Both coalition parties have suffered in the polls as a result.
:47:19. > :47:23.Sir it is a shambles. Also there is an appetite amongst the British
:47:23. > :47:28.public for alternatives to the three main parties. That is why
:47:28. > :47:32.Galloway one in Bradford, that is why a Nigel Farage is popular. And
:47:32. > :47:36.some of that is because the mainstream politicians are not seen
:47:36. > :47:41.to be dealing effectively enough with immigration, with Europe, with
:47:41. > :47:51.the economy. And a challenge is there for all of us in mainstream
:47:51. > :47:53.
:47:53. > :47:57.politics to have better answers to that. We have seen the row over
:47:57. > :48:02.extraditing this week. They are not really in control of these
:48:02. > :48:12.immigration and deportation issues. Now, our regular walk the round-up
:48:12. > :48:15.
:48:15. > :48:19.Ministers from 47 European countries descended on Brighton to
:48:19. > :48:23.consider changes to the Convention on Human Rights. The case of a
:48:23. > :48:30.toddler who went missing in Germany over 30 years ago was raised in the
:48:30. > :48:33.House of Commons by Caroline damage. She said when the child disappeared,
:48:33. > :48:37.military police mishandled investigations. Will the Prime
:48:37. > :48:40.Minister agree to me with the family to hear their calls for an
:48:40. > :48:44.independent inquiry into the bungling of this investigation and
:48:44. > :48:48.give them the closure that they so desperately need and deserve?
:48:48. > :48:53.On Wednesday, the closure of a third of Hampshire's mental health
:48:53. > :48:58.beds came under scrutiny. New Forest MP Julian Lewis claimed the
:48:58. > :49:02.service is already overstretched. bed occupancy was still at almost
:49:02. > :49:06.92%. And finally, how about beating the
:49:06. > :49:10.drought by building your own well? It cost Trevor Morris from Reading
:49:10. > :49:20.10 grant to drill down 80 feet, but he managed to avoid the hosepipe
:49:20. > :49:24.
:49:24. > :49:34.ban. What drag? -- what drought? We
:49:34. > :49:36.
:49:36. > :49:41.ought to address this. It's a bit strange that some people get away
:49:41. > :49:45.with a hosepipe ban in their own backyard. I blame the press. I
:49:45. > :49:51.think the Ministry has given a good explanation of what seems to happen.
:49:51. > :50:00.It seemed to be to do with other people. Absolutely, and you are not
:50:01. > :50:05.using your hose, you are saving water? Absolutely. If you could see
:50:05. > :50:12.my car, it is very dirty. Well, I'm glad to hear your bird doing that.
:50:12. > :50:16.Thank you for coming in and talking about things a bit further afield.