:01:25. > :01:30.In the South: the system for paying council tax benefit is changing and
:01:30. > :01:40.there will be less money available and that means thousands could see
:01:40. > :01:40.
:01:40. > :37:52.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2172 seconds
:37:52. > :37:56.Welcome. My name is Peter Henley. Today, changes to Council Tax
:37:56. > :38:02.Benefit. There is less money available and how it is paid out is
:38:02. > :38:08.to be decided on locally, so it could depend on the way you live.
:38:08. > :38:12.First, let's meet the politicians who will join us. The Conservative
:38:12. > :38:17.leader of the council. And John Tanner is a Labour councillor in
:38:17. > :38:26.Oxford. Since 2009, Oxford has been paying an living wage rather than
:38:26. > :38:30.the minimum wage. We are paying at least �8 to staff and we ask
:38:30. > :38:35.contract has to do the same. Housing costs are horrendously high
:38:35. > :38:39.and we want to make sure that people get a wage they can live on.
:38:39. > :38:44.Presumably, contract has say they will pay the going rate. A and then
:38:45. > :38:51.they will not get the contract. We want to extend this so everybody
:38:51. > :38:56.gets a fair wage. Surely it costs the council a great deal? No. We
:38:56. > :39:00.get better quality staff and staff who stay longer. We are employing
:39:00. > :39:03.an increasing number of apprentices and this is against the background
:39:03. > :39:08.of local-authority workers are having their wages frozen for three
:39:08. > :39:14.years and we have to do something. Buckinghamshire has the greatest
:39:14. > :39:19.number of volunteers have any council is that right? In terms of
:39:19. > :39:23.head of population. You are busy getting people in for nothing and
:39:23. > :39:28.John is paying them more. We are not getting people in for nothing.
:39:28. > :39:35.There is a reality check. At times when local authorities are tight
:39:35. > :39:45.for money, there is a trade on the number of people you can employ.
:39:45. > :39:46.
:39:46. > :39:51.And the amount you can pay them. Southampton has gone back to Labour
:39:51. > :39:56.where they have that attitude, and may have now had to settle all the
:39:56. > :40:01.money they tried to reduce in employee pay. We are not cutting
:40:01. > :40:06.people's paint. We pay a good salary. Most council employees get
:40:06. > :40:11.annual increments. Wages have not been frozen for a lot of people,
:40:11. > :40:16.every year they stay, they get an extra amount of money based on time
:40:16. > :40:22.they have served. We are trying to move away from paying according to
:40:22. > :40:27.the number of years they have sat at the desk to a system of paying
:40:27. > :40:32.for performance. That sounds a more modern approach. It is one we have
:40:32. > :40:35.adopted in Oxford and negotiated with the trade unions. We do not
:40:35. > :40:40.pay regular increments, we say we have efficiency targets across the
:40:40. > :40:50.council. This last year, because the targets were met we have been
:40:50. > :40:50.
:40:50. > :40:54.able to pay staff a flat 400 and something. We are doing that on an
:40:54. > :41:02.individual basis, saying it is performance that determines the pay
:41:02. > :41:07.rise rather than doing something that his blanket. If you are a
:41:07. > :41:11.cash-strapped council there has often been a way of learning by a
:41:11. > :41:16.turning garden waste and leaves into compost. The Environment
:41:16. > :41:22.Agency has put a spanner in the works saying that street sweeping
:41:22. > :41:27.yes can be contaminated and council should not do this. Were you
:41:27. > :41:33.surprised when you were told you could not continue doing this?
:41:33. > :41:38.were. The Environment Agency report came out on the 1st May and at that
:41:38. > :41:43.stage as with all councils we had set the budget. We had a new
:41:43. > :41:49.collection system for household waste and this was a surprise.
:41:49. > :41:55.is lucrative. Taking that and turning to -- it into compost makes
:41:55. > :42:00.sense and it provided a revenue. did not give us a revenue, but it
:42:00. > :42:10.meant that material did not go to landfill and so we did not have to
:42:10. > :42:10.
:42:10. > :42:15.pay landfill charges. It was going to compost on a site in Oxfordshire.
:42:15. > :42:21.That is for the company who deals with the waste from these
:42:21. > :42:28.authorities. They have stopped accepting that because of the
:42:28. > :42:34.restriction on the rules. We have got a cost of over �100,000 from
:42:34. > :42:43.this. That is until we can find a solution. Presumably you are not
:42:43. > :42:47.the only council. We are not. There is a movement for every council to
:42:47. > :42:52.challenge what Environment Agency had done. And I think something
:42:52. > :42:58.will happen about testing. Probably, at this time of year, believes
:42:58. > :43:03.would be fine. Maybe some of the other things taken off the streets,
:43:03. > :43:07.things taken from gullies, might be contaminated. They say heavy-metal
:43:07. > :43:12.contamination. You could imagine something scraped up from the
:43:12. > :43:22.street outside your house is different from the reeking ofs from
:43:22. > :43:27.
:43:27. > :43:33.the lawn. Why cannot they -- -- rakings. A they came in with this
:43:33. > :43:39.change without any chance of testing the materials or looking at
:43:39. > :43:45.a process that could be done to tidy this up. That is so it could
:43:45. > :43:52.be composted. We are the same. Local authorities are up in arms
:43:52. > :44:00.about this. If there had been consultation... They have a point.
:44:00. > :44:10.We do not want to put contaminated compost on two people's farms in
:44:10. > :44:13.
:44:13. > :44:18.Oxfordshire. You think you would have heard about it before. If you
:44:18. > :44:22.had cadmium and copper in this you would not know until years later.
:44:22. > :44:26.They should be consultation, you should not changed the rules
:44:26. > :44:31.suddenly. In fairness, the Environment Agency is saying that
:44:31. > :44:37.so much litter is dumped, with glass, plastic, rubbish that is
:44:37. > :44:41.mixed in. When it is turned into compost and put on land potentially
:44:41. > :44:47.growing agricultural products, there is contamination. I
:44:47. > :44:51.understand what they are saying. Buckinghamshire, this accounts for
:44:51. > :44:57.1% of our total waste that we collect and it is a relatively
:44:57. > :45:04.small issue. The big issue is the cost of landfill. Most people think
:45:04. > :45:10.that when waste is collected, it disappears. You are paying �64 per
:45:10. > :45:16.tonne for this to go in to land full and it is going up to �80 for
:45:16. > :45:22.every council -- landfill. It is becoming a big cost. Today suggest
:45:22. > :45:26.what you should do instead? They are starting to talk about testing.
:45:26. > :45:31.Maybe there is a position we could reach to sort out the leaves, which
:45:31. > :45:37.would probably be OK at this time of year. Not only is it cost of
:45:37. > :45:41.landfill, but most councils have tried to reduce going to landfill
:45:41. > :45:51.because we will have find so as well and the landfill tonnage
:45:51. > :45:53.
:45:53. > :45:59.targets go down each year and we have more houses. We have this plus
:45:59. > :46:05.the cost and the downstream issue. It is the issue of the �100,000 we
:46:06. > :46:09.will not be able to spend on other services. Thanks for talking to us
:46:09. > :46:15.about it. A dog social care and had to pay
:46:15. > :46:25.for it is something every politician would like to crack --
:46:25. > :46:27.
:46:27. > :46:31.adult social care. One programme sent a reporter into a care home.
:46:31. > :46:38.They think I am the strawberry man. They say the strawberry man has
:46:38. > :46:45.been and dad knows it was me. He has been working from 16 to 75, and
:46:45. > :46:48.then they try to take his money. It is terrible after he has played in
:46:48. > :46:54.all of this time and fought for his country abroad and at home, was
:46:54. > :46:58.injured in the war and in hospital in the war, and then they take his
:46:58. > :47:05.money. I am sorry if my voice is going, but it takes me up thinking
:47:05. > :47:10.about it. I have your lunch. I need to help cut your meat. One in three
:47:10. > :47:19.of us over 65 will suffer from dementia and that brings challenges
:47:19. > :47:24.for everyone. You look at him sometimes when he is shouting and
:47:24. > :47:30.his dementia is making him cross. Underneath that, he is a lovely man
:47:30. > :47:37.who will talk about fishing and building and about his life. With
:47:37. > :47:41.an ageing population, who pays and who cares?
:47:41. > :47:46.Councils do care because you are taking care of people who come to
:47:46. > :47:52.you, but you are paying less for a lot of residential care than
:47:52. > :47:56.private individuals. As far as Oxford City is concerned, we do not
:47:56. > :48:01.have direct responsibility, it is the county council. It is a growing
:48:01. > :48:05.problem and we get less money from the Government. In Oxfordshire,
:48:05. > :48:12.they are talking about increasing charges for day centres from �10
:48:12. > :48:16.per day up to �25 per day. I have fears it will lead to the closure
:48:16. > :48:21.of the day centres and you will have even more elderly people who
:48:21. > :48:28.have to be supported by the NHS and it will cost more. There are real
:48:28. > :48:33.problems. The question about fairness, Martin? In terms of the
:48:33. > :48:38.rates paid, as a county council we buy in bulk and buy blocks of beds
:48:38. > :48:45.and get a lower rate than if you go in for a particular individual
:48:45. > :48:50.going into care. There is a demographic challenge facing us in
:48:50. > :48:54.the south of England. As a population, we have an ageing
:48:54. > :48:59.population which is an enormous cost. Most people do not realise
:48:59. > :49:04.one-third of the county council budget goes on looking after it old
:49:04. > :49:10.people. Almost �100 million per year. We have to find a way as more
:49:10. > :49:15.people grow older how we can cope with that in constrained budgets.
:49:15. > :49:19.For us, rather than move people to care homes, we help them to stay in
:49:19. > :49:29.their home for longer and to retain the self-respect of independent
:49:29. > :49:34.living. We have a problem in Oxford that elderly people often need
:49:34. > :49:44.their homes adapted. The city council is happy to do them, the
:49:44. > :49:46.
:49:46. > :49:52.attractions, but there is a waiting list. This will get worse. It is a
:49:52. > :49:58.demographic time bomb. The Government has to get a grip with
:49:58. > :50:06.how we found this. And except that older people are healthier for
:50:06. > :50:11.longer. Look at us! Look at the people who are not healthy and how
:50:11. > :50:18.we deal with them. Bangs for your thoughts on that. You can see more
:50:18. > :50:24.of that report on a special programme -- thank you.
:50:24. > :50:29.5.9 million people in Britain get this payment making it one of the
:50:29. > :50:35.most widely claimed means tested benefits. I am talking about the
:50:35. > :50:39.council tax benefit. As of 2013, it will be what the Government says is
:50:39. > :50:45.localised and that means local councils will decide he gets it as
:50:45. > :50:49.opposed to the national criteria. Just one catch, until now, councils
:50:49. > :50:53.have been reimbursed by the Government for what it costs them
:50:53. > :50:58.and from now warned they will not be and the money is being cut by
:50:58. > :51:01.10% and all councils will have to think about what their local scheme
:51:01. > :51:07.should look luck. We consider the options.
:51:07. > :51:11.Tony Jones' pigeons have almost as much space as he has in his one-
:51:11. > :51:17.bedroom flat. This is not the posh end of town, but even the cheapest
:51:17. > :51:21.property will cost almost �1,000 in council tax. Childhood polio left
:51:21. > :51:28.him on benefits and so that is not a worry but things are about to
:51:28. > :51:35.change. Council tax is covered on the benefits. I would find it hard,
:51:35. > :51:45.but it is like anything, you live on the amount you are given. By
:51:45. > :51:50.
:51:50. > :51:54.living on the amount you are given, you have to make sacrifices.
:51:54. > :52:03.town has people who struggle to meet the council tax demand. Just
:52:03. > :52:08.as Whitehall cuts the money, it is giving councils to help them, the
:52:08. > :52:13.number could be on the rise due to the flatlining economy. It's is a
:52:13. > :52:18.challenge. It is an element that will add hard things to people
:52:18. > :52:23.already suffering. That is why we should take time to look at how we
:52:23. > :52:28.implement this. But in council tax on empty homes will go some way to
:52:28. > :52:33.make up the shortfall -- putting. It will not completely plugged the
:52:34. > :52:38.gap. The proposal being considered would leave little under 1,000
:52:38. > :52:42.people here worse-off. Almost half of those of people who live in
:52:42. > :52:50.slightly bigger homes and in future the council wants to peg the
:52:50. > :52:53.benefit paid to what someone living in an average-sized house can claim.
:52:53. > :52:59.A further 322 people would lose their benefits altogether and at
:52:59. > :53:03.the moment they are paid �5 a week and the council theory is that they
:53:03. > :53:08.would not miss the money if it were no longer there. The authority is
:53:08. > :53:13.already looking at making further cuts in the future. In future,
:53:13. > :53:18.everyone might have to pay 10% of the Bill, which might not see mum -
:53:18. > :53:24.- much, but for this single mother, juggling College and bringing up a
:53:24. > :53:33.family, everything counts. Everything is costing more. Nappies
:53:33. > :53:40.cost a fortune. �8 for 24 nappies. Food generally, the prices have
:53:40. > :53:44.gone up so much. It is a struggle. And if council tax becomes
:53:44. > :53:51.something you have to factor in, what happens then? My children will
:53:51. > :53:56.be eating beans on toast. At a time when David Cameron and George
:53:56. > :54:01.Osborne are giving the top rate a tax cut it is saying they do not
:54:01. > :54:07.care about families, unity, and the country being together and proud of
:54:07. > :54:12.itself. That is what it says to me. I am concerned about the effect on
:54:12. > :54:17.local residents of all the changes coming together. Nobody can really
:54:17. > :54:21.assess the depth and reality of the changes, we can only deal with them
:54:21. > :54:28.as they come along and design the best scheme to give people time to
:54:28. > :54:35.adjust. These are hard hitting changes and they will have to have
:54:35. > :54:42.adjustments. But that is cold comfort across town. Rather than
:54:42. > :54:48.understand what life is like for families, the mother of this single
:54:48. > :54:52.parents said it is to demonise them. I have two daughters claiming full
:54:52. > :54:56.council tax and both of them are trying hard to bring their children
:54:56. > :55:01.up and get an education say they can work and I think it will be
:55:01. > :55:08.hard for them, and they struggle already. I am struggling and I
:55:08. > :55:12.would have to help them even more. It would be difficult. A lot of
:55:12. > :55:15.people in this area, they are on council tax benefit and I think it
:55:15. > :55:25.will take money away from their children which is the wrong thing
:55:25. > :55:27.
:55:27. > :55:32.to do. That is tough. Some ideas here, though. The 10% reduction. Do
:55:32. > :55:40.not pay to have it is less than �5 per week. Do you think the 10% can
:55:40. > :55:44.be achieved? It is a tough one. You have to put this in the national
:55:44. > :55:50.context. We are spending �90 billion per year on benefits for
:55:50. > :56:00.working-age people, which is unsustainable. It cannot be right.
:56:00. > :56:05.The Government has to get to grips with that. It is a question of
:56:05. > :56:11.government choice. It is not. Something has to be done about the
:56:11. > :56:18.amount spent. It has created a climate in which it pays not to
:56:18. > :56:27.work in many cases. We need to address that. We are talking about
:56:27. > :56:32.people who do work. They get council benefits. You need to move
:56:32. > :56:36.decisions closer to local people and putting it to councils who can
:56:36. > :56:40.take decisions in their locality has to be the right thing. Are you
:56:40. > :56:48.happy to do this, it has been landed on you, to take local
:56:48. > :56:58.decisions, but to cut the amount by 10%? Of the council tax benefit? It
:56:58. > :57:02.
:57:02. > :57:07.is really tough. Some councils are having to do. Look at the Labour
:57:07. > :57:11.alternative. Every time they say make no changes and make no cuts
:57:11. > :57:15.and the reality is Ed Balls says he is prepared to take tough decisions
:57:15. > :57:22.but opposes every single reduction and that is the Labour Party
:57:22. > :57:28.attitude to everything. Oxford, you are maintaining this, and it is
:57:28. > :57:37.costing, but that will mean cuts. It will cost Oxford City Council �1
:57:37. > :57:45.million per year, this 10% cut. Each year? Yes, it is significant.
:57:45. > :57:53.Local councils can take that decision. A decision to cut? What
:57:53. > :58:00.the Labour council in Oxford is doing is we are planning to make up
:58:00. > :58:04.the difference. It is practically difficult to chase people for 10%
:58:04. > :58:10.of their council tax. If we do not make up the difference and pay it
:58:10. > :58:14.to people, we will lose the money. I have never denied it is difficult,
:58:14. > :58:23.but there is no alternative to reforming welfare. We will have to
:58:23. > :58:31.leave that. We will have our regular round-up in 60 seconds.
:58:31. > :58:34.It was a stubborn start week with new government money to end
:58:34. > :58:39.bottlenecks on the roads in the south and the information
:58:39. > :58:43.superhighway in Swindon was boosted with news they will have four g
:58:44. > :58:47.broad band before the rest of us. But Liverpool plans to go ahead
:58:47. > :58:51.with cruise-ship operations with an angry response from rivals in
:58:51. > :58:56.Southampton. The UK government has to say to Liverpool you have not
:58:56. > :59:00.got the green light for cruises and you should not be doing them.
:59:00. > :59:03.Concern about the pace of progress for solar power. This development
:59:03. > :59:10.in Sussex could be the second largest in Europe and it caused
:59:10. > :59:17.concern among residents. It is sad to ruin any remaining countryside,
:59:17. > :59:22.but that is just me. �1.3 billion invested in Reading by a global IT
:59:22. > :59:28.firm and Thames Water announced a tunnel, the investment habits
:59:28. > :59:34.finally being turned on in the south. -- Investment tap.
:59:34. > :59:44.Signs of improvement in the local economy? I think so. As councils,
:59:44. > :59:46.
:59:46. > :59:52.will you see a benefit from that? We are not going to turn away much-
:59:52. > :59:55.needed investment. We have British Gas investing in Oxford. Councils
:59:55. > :00:00.have to be where to make it easier for the company that invests and
:00:00. > :00:05.then there will be costs with housing and schools and the rest.
:00:05. > :00:08.Very supportive of jobs, in the structure is important. It cannot
:00:08. > :00:14.just be funded locally and we need central government to support us
:00:14. > :00:19.with roads, to relieve congestion that comes with this and the other
:00:19. > :00:25.big area is broadband. The issue of rolling out good quality, high-