:01:42. > :01:52.A good mood is changing her we decide the amount of money schools
:01:52. > :01:52.
:01:52. > :39:55.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2282 seconds
:39:55. > :39:58.get, critics say will schools could Welcome to Sunday Politics South.
:39:58. > :40:01.My name is Peter Henley. On today's show, rural schools claim they
:40:01. > :40:05.could be losing out by tens of thousands of pounds under the
:40:05. > :40:07.government's new funding formula. That's coming up shortly. First
:40:07. > :40:10.though, let's meet the two politicians who are also with me
:40:10. > :40:13.for the next 20 minutes. Antonia Bance is a Labour councillor on
:40:13. > :40:21.Oxford City Council, and Keith House is the Liberal Democrat
:40:22. > :40:25.leader of Eastleigh Council. We got talking with Theresa May will run
:40:25. > :40:32.the programme, have you been campaigning in Oxford? Of course,
:40:32. > :40:37.we have been putting out leaflets and talking to voters. The party
:40:37. > :40:42.machine, famous and Oxford, swinging behind that in the Thames
:40:42. > :40:45.Valley. We are good at campaigning in Oxford and we showed that
:40:45. > :40:50.through the general election, but we like talking to the people we
:40:50. > :40:53.represent and a lot of people are saying they think this role was
:40:53. > :40:59.important and they have things they want it police and crime
:40:59. > :41:02.Commissioner to do to make them feel safer. I am sure that the
:41:02. > :41:07.Liberal Democrats are also campaigning! Across Hampshire and
:41:07. > :41:11.the Isle of Wight. The timing was purely set up for the Liberal
:41:11. > :41:16.Democrats so you did not have to talk about the justice issues in
:41:16. > :41:21.May. It is critical we separate out elections so people are clear what
:41:21. > :41:24.they are voting for. We do not want wheeze issues muddled up with
:41:24. > :41:29.General elections will European elections, we want a proper focus
:41:29. > :41:36.on a debate around police and crime. You are served up collections
:41:36. > :41:41.abroad, this is strange. The London mayoral preference system, it is
:41:41. > :41:46.not -- does it favour independence? If there was a desire to promote
:41:46. > :41:50.independence here, it probably would not work. Independents do not
:41:50. > :41:56.have resources to put into these elections that a larger pan -- that
:41:56. > :42:01.the larger parties do. We are campaigning through Hampshire, as
:42:01. > :42:06.you would expect. It is the big constituency! Are you fed up with
:42:06. > :42:11.the selection? Is it a go been quarried bad thing? We were not in
:42:11. > :42:15.favour of these positions in the first place and we are not sure it
:42:15. > :42:19.is a good idea to have it on a cold November night when people may not
:42:19. > :42:24.want to leave their homes. Will we have to say how we would like
:42:24. > :42:28.police forces to be won, so for Labour, we do not support cuts
:42:29. > :42:35.across the Thames Valley. We have to excite the electorate, this is
:42:35. > :42:43.real issues, not just crime, about police safety. And de won't turnout
:42:43. > :42:47.would mean people had less mandate. -- and it won't turn out. -- and a
:42:47. > :42:50.low turnout. The government is changing the way it decides how
:42:50. > :42:53.much funding local authorities get for their schools. They are going
:42:53. > :42:55.to give more weight to things like deprivation and English as a
:42:55. > :42:58.foreign language. But as Tristan Pascoe reports, rural schools in
:42:58. > :43:03.particular say that leaves them at an unfair disadvantage.
:43:03. > :43:07.For many small rural schools like this one in Dorset, there are fears
:43:07. > :43:11.the changes would have a significant impact. Under the new
:43:11. > :43:16.national funding formula, all schools, regardless of size, would
:43:16. > :43:21.be given the same minimum amount of cash to be topped up on factors
:43:21. > :43:27.like the number of pupils and levels of deprivation. I am
:43:27. > :43:32.expecting a reduction in budget. Not the same for all schools, but
:43:32. > :43:37.the new formula is more restrictive about how funding is allocated.
:43:37. > :43:43.Forest, a possible reduction of about �50,000 -- for us. That is
:43:43. > :43:47.more than the cost of a teacher. And to controls the purse-strings?
:43:47. > :43:52.The local authority has the discretion to allocate funds at the
:43:52. > :43:56.moment according to local needs. the moment, the money we get from
:43:56. > :44:03.the government, we delegate to schools according to a local
:44:03. > :44:06.formula which has a large number of factors, covering various things,
:44:06. > :44:11.particularly protection of small rural schools. But under the new
:44:11. > :44:14.formula, things like English as an additional language and ethnic
:44:14. > :44:19.minorities, which in Dorset, although we do have pupils with
:44:19. > :44:23.those needs, perhaps not to the same extent as elsewhere in the
:44:23. > :44:31.country. A large part of the Formula concentrates on that area
:44:31. > :44:34.which is not for Iraq improvement. Schools minister David Laws
:44:34. > :44:39.announced a hundred million pounds of funding for the summer schools
:44:39. > :44:43.sprog -- summer schools programme, affecting the most disadvantaged
:44:43. > :44:47.children, but campaigners say some of that money would be better spent
:44:48. > :44:52.addressing the inequalities of the new national funding formula.
:44:52. > :44:59.Schools worry about a last �1 so we regularly have people ringing up
:44:59. > :45:03.and talking to was about �5,000, �50,000 is a lot. We are pleased
:45:03. > :45:11.they are putting a lot of money into education, but what -- but it
:45:11. > :45:16.would be more useful for struggling authorities to receive that. It is
:45:16. > :45:22.that that rural areas do less well than a metropolitan areas. Wife
:45:22. > :45:28.should a child who is a deprived child endorse it received less
:45:28. > :45:37.funding than another deprived child in another authority? -- why should.
:45:37. > :45:42.One reason they lose out is because rural schools are small, so if the
:45:42. > :45:49.funding is based on numbers, they will lose out. They just want a
:45:49. > :45:53.level playing field. Because the simplifications are being put
:45:53. > :45:57.within local authority's existing spend, some of the inequalities are
:45:57. > :46:05.not being addressed. -- within the existing spanned of local
:46:05. > :46:11.authorities. The system is so complicated, but this is supposed
:46:12. > :46:17.to be a simplification. Keith House, is having these Christ -- is having
:46:17. > :46:23.these 10 criteria the right way to go? It is a simplification but it
:46:23. > :46:27.is still complicated. The experience of home she it is
:46:27. > :46:33.different and small schools are being protected. Is it is a lump
:46:33. > :46:39.sum. Her Hampshire have a large lump sum to protect the smaller
:46:40. > :46:42.schools -- Hampshire. It is a fiddle! It is about getting in
:46:42. > :46:48.local solution with national fairness and I think Hampshire it
:46:48. > :46:54.is working well to achieve that, but we will see over time. Has it
:46:54. > :46:59.working in Oxford? In the county as a whole, we are worried about this
:46:59. > :47:04.change to the formula. In my ward, at the school situation is very
:47:04. > :47:09.difficult. It is a city school on an estate, we have a lot of
:47:09. > :47:14.children with English as an additional language, we are seeing
:47:14. > :47:17.1.5% cuts adding up to one -- adding up to 7% over five years and
:47:17. > :47:20.we are worried about this. Now, nominations closed on Friday
:47:20. > :47:24.for the Police and Crime Commissioner elections. If you want
:47:24. > :47:28.to find out who is standing in your area, then take a look at the BBC
:47:28. > :47:34.website that is onscreen now. We have the four Dorset candidates
:47:34. > :47:36.here in the studio. Nick King is standing for the Conservatives,
:47:36. > :47:46.Rachel Rodgers for Labour, Andy Canning for the Liberal Democrats,
:47:46. > :47:48.
:47:48. > :47:53.and Martin Underhill is an independent candidate. Martin, I
:47:53. > :47:58.will ask all of you, but to react to what Theresa May was saying, it
:47:58. > :48:03.is possible to cut spending and improve performance. Martin, and
:48:03. > :48:09.you are a former police officer, is that true? He it is not, they have
:48:09. > :48:15.cut too much already, and wanted 12% and you cannot cut any more.
:48:15. > :48:19.Yes or no? It is possible because it is not just about policing, but
:48:19. > :48:26.also other measures to fight crime and if you get that right, you can
:48:26. > :48:30.reduce police budgets and make areas safer. HMI sees it will
:48:30. > :48:40.present was the maximum and that is the point the Labour Party would
:48:40. > :48:42.
:48:42. > :48:47.say also. -- HMIC. It will impact too much on the services we provide
:48:47. > :48:52.and I think it is another step towards privatisation. And Nick
:48:52. > :48:58.King said there would be no loss on the front line, is that true?
:48:58. > :49:01.does not need to be, there are plenty of innovative ways we can
:49:01. > :49:06.find to save money to put people back on the front line and make
:49:06. > :49:11.sure police officers are more visible, and work better with other
:49:11. > :49:15.authorities. You were on the police authority and Theresa May has made
:49:15. > :49:21.this cut, why did you not object? The because you could cut in plenty
:49:21. > :49:24.of ways and you can save money in plenty of places -- because. They
:49:24. > :49:29.have been good at doing that endorse it but there are plenty of
:49:29. > :49:34.other things they can do, Dorset police look in on themselves too
:49:34. > :49:37.much and can work better with local authorities. Christ Church have
:49:37. > :49:42.offered them places in their community centres and they have not
:49:42. > :49:47.taken them up on that. How do police officers feel about what is
:49:47. > :49:51.being said around these elections? The way the government is pushing
:49:51. > :49:57.the police to reform and improve and to change, are you going to
:49:57. > :50:01.stand against that? I embrace change and the police need to get
:50:01. > :50:07.that at community engagement, they are not good at that. Police
:50:07. > :50:13.officers are angry. So many changes are coming in at the same time, six
:50:13. > :50:17.or seven changes, the cuts to pensions, the winter review. My
:50:17. > :50:22.concern would be maintaining the morale of my force because they are
:50:22. > :50:29.facing so many issues. But you are not going to be the police -- the
:50:29. > :50:32.chief constable. But I know how the business works. Nick has said there
:50:32. > :50:37.were plenty of places you can save money and their ralph but they have
:50:37. > :50:41.done that already come up we have had cuts for five years and you
:50:41. > :50:45.cannot keep cutting. I went to 10 Downing Street to go to shoot
:50:45. > :50:49.against the funding and said I want more funding for rural police
:50:49. > :50:53.forces and they will continue to fight for that. Rural policing get
:50:53. > :50:57.less money because there was less crime and if you look at the
:50:58. > :51:05.statistics, you should be spending it in places like Bournemouth.
:51:05. > :51:10.what matters took all of us is to reduce the fear of crime -- to all
:51:10. > :51:14.of us. People in rural areas feel disadvantaged and I think they are
:51:15. > :51:19.right. Nothing has come back to replace the royal funding that has
:51:19. > :51:27.been taken away. He is it just about fear of crime or the evidence
:51:27. > :51:30.of where it is happening? I think it is about both. The cuts are
:51:30. > :51:36.taking neighbourhood officers away from areas where people live and
:51:36. > :51:39.the problem is that you lose confidence in those communities. If
:51:39. > :51:44.you have made a officers, that builds trust and people will tell
:51:44. > :51:50.them things and you never better intelligence. People are more
:51:50. > :51:53.confident to report crimes. If you suck out neighbourhood policing, if
:51:54. > :51:59.you lose that confidence and intelligence, and the ability to
:51:59. > :52:05.target the source, and sometimes you see crime statistics going down.
:52:05. > :52:10.That is reported crimes going down, not crimes. You a background is an
:52:10. > :52:15.economist, you are Mayor of Dorchester, Andy Canning. Is it all
:52:15. > :52:19.about money? Are some of the things which was talking about things that
:52:19. > :52:25.would have to be paid for by cutting other areas of police
:52:25. > :52:29.operation? That may be the case. We have to provide different
:52:29. > :52:34.priorities and work with local communities on workout Wapping need.
:52:34. > :52:39.There are policies that need to be applied across the county. -- and
:52:40. > :52:44.work out what they need. We have to stop young people going into crime
:52:44. > :52:49.in the first place. And we have to make the justice system more
:52:49. > :52:55.effective so there is less re- offending. But you are not
:52:55. > :53:00.responsible for the justice system as a PCC. A we have to work out
:53:00. > :53:03.what needs for the community -- we have to. Some are controlled by the
:53:03. > :53:09.new Commissioner and some are controlled by other bodies you have
:53:09. > :53:15.to work with and influence. Being directly responsible for crime for
:53:15. > :53:19.Dorset means you have an authority people will listen to. That is part
:53:19. > :53:24.of what you have to do and if your community is telling you what needs
:53:24. > :53:28.to be done, you have to fight for that. Whether that is funding for
:53:28. > :53:36.the justice system or any crime related issue, that is why we are
:53:36. > :53:42.there. You're experiences is in business, seven generations.
:53:42. > :53:48.quite! Had it not been for the Olympics, would you be suggesting
:53:49. > :53:53.more contracting out? A not a necessarily. None of us are turning
:53:53. > :53:57.up with manifestos saying what a party is telling us to do, it is
:53:57. > :54:03.what people endorse it want and what makes them feel safe, what is
:54:03. > :54:13.good on what is bad. Finding that and finding solutions it is the
:54:13. > :54:13.
:54:13. > :54:23.drop. So a good way of a solution might be Payment by results. Book
:54:23. > :54:26.
:54:26. > :54:32.will people endorse it be happy with that? -- but. Martin, first of.
:54:32. > :54:36.Mack he just said nobody is coming here with a manifesto, I have one
:54:36. > :54:41.because I have been consulting people for six months. These people
:54:41. > :54:47.do not have bet a manifesto and that is insulting to the public --
:54:47. > :54:52.do not have a manifestos. MoD in her as are being a candidate since
:54:52. > :54:57.February and we were selected by our parties in July -- Martin has
:54:58. > :55:03.been a candidate. Since that time, but Martin has had chance to speak
:55:03. > :55:08.to people, and I have seen twice the amount of people he has. A lot
:55:08. > :55:12.of people are pushing leaflets through the door! He her tat is six
:55:12. > :55:17.months start on has to do that himself and if he has not done that,
:55:18. > :55:27.that says something about his organisation -- he has had a six
:55:27. > :55:32.months' start. There was no point involving Westminster, it is a
:55:32. > :55:41.local issue. He has been a local car bomb at councillor for six
:55:41. > :55:45.years, it has not worked. -- he has been a local councillor. So for him
:55:45. > :55:53.to say he is not interested in privatisation, his background does
:55:53. > :55:59.not suggest that. There has been a difference between the HR function
:55:59. > :56:05.of Bournemouth council remained in partnership with the private sector
:56:05. > :56:12.and between people looking at the way police operate. There is a
:56:13. > :56:15.difference in how people would see that. It is possible the HR
:56:15. > :56:25.department of the police it would work better in conjunction with
:56:25. > :56:32.somebody else and those other things we need to look at to save
:56:32. > :56:36.money. What I think of this is that we are having 20% cuts to the
:56:36. > :56:41.police services and at the same time, the PCC does not just deal
:56:41. > :56:46.with police but with community safety. We are focusing very much
:56:46. > :56:51.on the police side of the PCC and not a crime and commissioning side.
:56:51. > :56:56.I think commissioning is the most important word here. The PCC will
:56:56. > :57:03.have a massive budget and the need to decide what they want to buy and
:57:03. > :57:06.who they will buy it from. That is what this is all about. I come from
:57:06. > :57:13.a very pro public service background and have worked and the
:57:13. > :57:17.Prison Service, I am a qualified teacher. I am saying at the same
:57:17. > :57:23.time, I can see there is plenty of opportunity for partnership working
:57:23. > :57:27.across those sectors. One of the big roles the PCC will do is to
:57:27. > :57:32.break down barriers between local authorities where services are
:57:32. > :57:36.prevented from expanding properly and serving for public by barriers
:57:36. > :57:44.people do not recognise in their daily lives which financial
:57:44. > :57:51.controls dictate. By it is all we have time for, but Frankie. -- that
:57:51. > :57:54.is. -- but thank you. Enjoyed the campaigning! Cash and Joyce.
:57:54. > :57:57.Now our regular round-up of the political week in the South in 60
:57:57. > :58:03.seconds. This week, it's all about kindness, generosity, the giving of
:58:03. > :58:07.gifts. Olympic sailing events for a gift -
:58:07. > :58:13.- what a gift for Weymouth, according to a council report, and
:58:13. > :58:19.more than half of visitors said they would return. A home was
:58:19. > :58:24.Shanta in Paul welcomed a generous Minister, a new philanthropy
:58:24. > :58:30.initiative. Be able like it and people want to feel proud about
:58:30. > :58:35.whether a work -- people. The under 17 Car Club were lobbying for
:58:35. > :58:40.better driving tests and said lives would be a test. This MP says the
:58:40. > :58:46.nuclear deterrent has saved lives on a global scale -- on a global
:58:46. > :58:52.scale. Won a of the key elements of the credibility of our deterrent is
:58:52. > :58:59.that it is continually at sea and the Royal Navy take immense pride.
:58:59. > :59:04.An offer from Russia was rejected here by the governments, they are
:59:04. > :59:12.giving Portsmouth hear the present of a new D-Day museums. All this
:59:12. > :59:17.generosity! Oxford University gets a lot of bequests, but I suppose
:59:17. > :59:22.they do not go to everybody. want a which people to donate and
:59:22. > :59:29.to pay their tax and to have a strong safety net -- we want a rich
:59:29. > :59:34.people. Most places do not have Oxford University. The one for p
:59:34. > :59:41.does not replace core funding that has to be funded fairly --
:59:41. > :59:44.philanthropy. Which people perhaps have to take their place in the big