:01:20. > :01:23.In the South: It was water, water everywhere
:01:23. > :01:33.before Christmas - are we looking at yet more flooding in the future
:01:33. > :01:33.
:01:33. > :43:48.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2534 seconds
:43:48. > :43:53.and, if so, how much will we have Welcome to Sunday Politics South -
:43:53. > :43:57.my name's Peter Henley. On today's show: Volunteers are now running
:43:57. > :44:01.eight of Dorset's libraries - the only way to save them from closure,
:44:01. > :44:04.said the council. Critics say it won't save that much money and
:44:04. > :44:07.means that communities are paying for them twice over.
:44:07. > :44:11.More on that shortly. First let's meet the two politicians who'll be
:44:11. > :44:14.with me for the next 20 minutes. Penny Mordaunt is the Conservative
:44:14. > :44:22.MP for Portsmouth North, and Bob Price is the Labour leader of
:44:22. > :44:26.Oxford City Council. A lot about benefits this week in the news. The
:44:27. > :44:32.perception of the changes that are going through a other language that
:44:32. > :44:38.is being used - strivers and shirkers - how is it playing out in
:44:38. > :44:43.Oxford? Are people seeing those cuts yet? People are very aware of
:44:43. > :44:51.the fact that there have been cuts. Housing benefit has been very
:44:51. > :44:54.significant. I have had a lot of concern about the fact that a to
:44:54. > :45:00.income family NE98 �1,000 between the two of them will still get
:45:00. > :45:04.child benefit, whereas a family earning 60,000 will not get any. I
:45:04. > :45:08.had one family with five children where they had made a firm decision
:45:08. > :45:13.to look after the children who will now lose all that benefit because
:45:13. > :45:16.their father and �60,000 a year. I think that is illogical and does
:45:17. > :45:20.not square with the child tax credit system which looks at the
:45:20. > :45:26.family. It does not fair and we were told that this cliff edge
:45:26. > :45:28.would be avoided. I think that the policy is popular. The majority of
:45:28. > :45:33.the population understand that if you have a limited amount of money
:45:33. > :45:39.to spend, you have to spend it on those who need it most. But going
:45:40. > :45:44.back to your language point, it is actually about those people who
:45:44. > :45:47.have challenge is getting back into work. They may have been in three
:45:47. > :45:54.generations of a family that Hoddle worked or have a mental health
:45:54. > :45:57.problem as a consequence of being on the scrapheap. They need support
:45:57. > :46:01.to get back into work and we will be spending money on that, as
:46:01. > :46:06.opposed to just adding to an enormous welfare bill. It is a
:46:06. > :46:13.popular policy. The answer to the discrepancy over the two households
:46:13. > :46:16.on tax credits is to introduce transferable tax allowances.
:46:16. > :46:20.Obviously, we have got to be able to afford it but where we can make
:46:20. > :46:28.progress - and we have done a considerable amount already to lift
:46:28. > :46:33.people out of tax altogether - at the next... At it is an se in terms
:46:33. > :46:37.of presentation, isn't it? I had been in Parliament for a couple of
:46:37. > :46:44.years now and this is one set of policies that the public really do
:46:44. > :46:51.get. In hard times, MPs should not be receiving child benefit and we
:46:52. > :46:57.have got to, with this limited pot, focus that stuff on those on the
:46:57. > :47:00.lowest incomes. We also have to ensure we are getting the right
:47:00. > :47:08.help for those people who want to get to work but face too many
:47:08. > :47:14.obstacles. Sure early labour was supporting a 1% cap on public, but
:47:14. > :47:19.not on this. The reason the welfare bill has gone up significantly is
:47:19. > :47:23.because of unemployment going up. It is the failure of the government
:47:23. > :47:27.get the economy moving. We now have a situation in which something like
:47:27. > :47:30.�60 million extra is being paid in unemployment benefit because of
:47:30. > :47:34.those situations that have been created. We to get the economy
:47:34. > :47:41.growing again. The way to tackle the welfare bill is by getting
:47:42. > :47:45.growth and new jobs. Earth we need to cut the deficit to do that.
:47:45. > :47:48.Forget a white Christmas - for many people, last year was a really wet
:47:48. > :47:51.Christmas. 2012 only narrowly missed out being the wettest year
:47:51. > :47:59.ever - and with all that rain came the misery of flooded houses, roads
:47:59. > :48:03.and railway lines. It was an irony probably lost on
:48:03. > :48:07.thousands of homeowners but last year, we did go from drought a
:48:07. > :48:10.hosepipe bans to torrential rain fall on flooding in the space of a
:48:10. > :48:17.couple of months. And it fell by the torrential rain just kept
:48:17. > :48:22.coming. Deluge after a deluge fallen on ground but was already
:48:22. > :48:26.too waterlogged to absorb any more. Bridgend and washed-out misery for
:48:26. > :48:31.road users, rail travellers and homeowners across the South. On the
:48:31. > :48:35.weekend before Christmas, 1.5 inches of rain Fell. At the end use
:48:35. > :48:41.this week, the Prime Minister was keen to point out how much the
:48:41. > :48:45.government has been spending to tackle the issue. We have put an
:48:45. > :48:52.extra �120 million in for flood defences. Everyone can see that the
:48:52. > :49:02.flood defence work has made a significant difference. Flood risk
:49:02. > :49:03.
:49:04. > :49:07.is a big issue in the Prime Minister's constituency. With the
:49:07. > :49:10.now are James Blott, whose home in the Meon Valley has been flooded
:49:10. > :49:13.five times already and currently has a couple of feet of water in
:49:13. > :49:15.the cellar, and James Humphreys from the Environment Agency, which
:49:15. > :49:19.is responsible for our flood defences. Your house has not been
:49:19. > :49:23.built in the right place - agree you must have known when you bought
:49:23. > :49:27.it. The floor at prior to the one that occurred seven days after I
:49:27. > :49:34.moved into it was 30 years before. It was such a distant memory that
:49:34. > :49:39.people did not remember the risk. They thought the risk had gone. The
:49:39. > :49:45.family that I bought the house from had converted to be below ground
:49:45. > :49:49.Earth rooms have to be living accommodation, so I had a dining
:49:49. > :49:57.room and study which, seven days after I bought it, was 5 ft under
:49:57. > :50:05.water. I have long since abandoned the seller but I have water about
:50:05. > :50:10.two foot six inches below my floorboards. And so does well?
:50:10. > :50:14.have had sewage in the village. am pleased to say it has not
:50:14. > :50:20.reached my house this time. The bottom end of the village has had a
:50:20. > :50:24.sewage problem, whether sewage trains have been charged with flood
:50:24. > :50:29.water and the system has not been able to cope so the sewage has
:50:29. > :50:34.bought out into the street. It is a horrible experience But we cannot
:50:34. > :50:38.protect everybody, can we? That is the reality. We will never be able
:50:38. > :50:42.to protect everyone from flooding at all times. We have to make sure
:50:43. > :50:48.that the huge amounts of money we are investing affect as many houses
:50:48. > :50:54.as possible. While it has always tragic hero of individual
:50:54. > :51:00.circumstances, we must be really careful with public money we get
:51:00. > :51:03.from local people and businesses and so on. Is it ageing
:51:03. > :51:08.infrastructure? In your case it is the underground drains that cannot
:51:08. > :51:12.cope. It is a number of things in our case. It goes back to World War
:51:12. > :51:16.II, when a huge ditch that used to run through the village was filled
:51:16. > :51:26.in in order to accommodate armoured vehicles before D-Day. At now the
:51:26. > :51:27.
:51:27. > :51:32.did can't -- and now the ditch Cont clear the water? The road is now
:51:32. > :51:37.higher than some of the front doors. It's it finger in the dyke still
:51:37. > :51:41.for should we feel that things are improving? They are definitely
:51:41. > :51:45.improving. You need to take some short-term measures to try and
:51:46. > :51:49.alleviate pressures on people this year and next. But clearly, you
:51:49. > :51:53.need to have a long-term view because a lot of things do not get
:51:53. > :51:57.changed overnight. You need a long- term plan to improve things. We
:51:57. > :52:02.have got that and I think, in many ways, things are far better now
:52:02. > :52:11.than they used to be. Letter stalked our politicians. You can
:52:11. > :52:15.tell us if you think what they say is right. The money the Prime
:52:15. > :52:20.Minister told about his for 60,000 houses. Should everyone to be
:52:20. > :52:28.having to pay to keep those has flowed free? There is work going on
:52:28. > :52:33.in the area and the direction of travel at the moment is that the
:52:33. > :52:38.onus is on the individual homeowner. I think, actually, there is more
:52:38. > :52:42.that we should be doing and this has happened in my patch, in
:52:42. > :52:46.Chichester, where I was talking to people who have farming land there,
:52:46. > :52:50.which was deliberately flooded by the local authority to prevent
:52:50. > :52:54.worse happening elsewhere. But he is not entitled to any compensation.
:52:54. > :52:59.I think that is wrong and needs to be addressed. In Portsmouth, the
:52:59. > :53:02.main problem for us... We have had greater investment in flood
:53:03. > :53:12.defences but we do have a problem with areas on a hill with the
:53:12. > :53:18.drains. We have to be able to show show that the programme of works is
:53:18. > :53:26.addressing the problem otherwise be black in for a massive cost. --
:53:26. > :53:30.people are in for. If a customer much, are we going to have to tell
:53:30. > :53:35.people they are on their own? our Oxford, we have had a very good
:53:35. > :53:38.level of co-operation between the Environment Agency and the councils.
:53:38. > :53:44.We have had a scheme in place over the last five years which have made
:53:44. > :53:51.big difference this time. We have had a significant improvement since
:53:51. > :53:58.2007 with relatively small amounts of money. To resolve a problem for
:53:58. > :54:02.Oxford, we need about �100,000 for stock in Bambury, �11 million was
:54:02. > :54:05.spent and yet they have had walked all over the streets. With the kit
:54:05. > :54:14.was a good scheme and we think that they might have been the occasional
:54:14. > :54:24.property that was unlucky. -- we think it was. It is not foolproof,
:54:24. > :54:25.
:54:25. > :54:31.is it? nothing ever is. The money it that the Prime Minister was
:54:31. > :54:36.talking about is on top of what we were already spending. It is a top
:54:36. > :54:41.up. We would always like more money but it is a significant sum of
:54:41. > :54:45.money and 120 is being a topple. Which you be prepared to pay the
:54:45. > :54:50.extra and have your insurance doubled? To or intents and purposes,
:54:50. > :54:55.it already has. In response to what you have just been discussing, I
:54:55. > :55:02.would say that I have pictures and video of a flood meadow under a
:55:02. > :55:08.foot of water, from the first flood in 1994. And in 1996, two houses
:55:08. > :55:12.were built on that very piece of land. Only a few years ago, a
:55:13. > :55:19.factory in the village was converted to 26 dwellings,
:55:20. > :55:25.connecting up to the very drained that was not able to cope in 2001.
:55:25. > :55:31.So I think there is a very big question to be asked, particularly
:55:31. > :55:36.of Southern Water, of how they are going to cope... How few got the
:55:36. > :55:40.power to do that? We have a lot of discussions with them so I ate
:55:40. > :55:45.would say that is a routine subject. Where people are allowed to build
:55:45. > :55:49.houses is a local authority function. We provide advice about
:55:49. > :55:53.how sensible it might be in terms of the flood risk but in the end,
:55:53. > :55:57.it is elected people who make the decisions about where properties go.
:55:57. > :56:00.Cheers, for coming in. Almost two years ago, austerity
:56:00. > :56:02.budgets saw councils in the South, and across the country, announcing
:56:02. > :56:06.controversial plans to withdraw funding from local libraries, to
:56:06. > :56:09.save money. In many cases there's been a reprieve of sorts - but
:56:09. > :56:16.often at the price of volunteers taking over the running of the
:56:16. > :56:21.libraries. Tristan Pascoe reports from Dorset.
:56:21. > :56:27.From Oxford to the Isle of Wight, there were noisy protests.
:56:27. > :56:30.Campaigners gathered thousands of papers -- signatures on papers and
:56:30. > :56:34.it direct action, including mass book borrowing withdrawals, to save
:56:34. > :56:38.their libraries. In Dorset, the campaign attracted some high-
:56:39. > :56:44.profile support. Or one of the saddest things I ever saw was
:56:44. > :56:50.coming into Sarajevo many years ago and seeing a huge, wonderful,
:56:51. > :57:00.renowned library going up in flames. It was terrible. Libraries matter.
:57:01. > :57:06.
:57:06. > :57:11.In 2011, in a bid to save �600,000 from the Budget, Dorset County
:57:11. > :57:16.Council decided to close 10 small libraries. Local communities took
:57:16. > :57:20.up the fight to save them. Fast- forward 21 months and eight
:57:20. > :57:23.community libraries that had their funding withdrawn by Dorset County
:57:23. > :57:30.Council are going it alone and being run by volunteers. First to
:57:30. > :57:33.be handed over to the community is this one at Puddletown. The
:57:33. > :57:43.takeover of the libraries was only possible because of the tremendous
:57:43. > :57:45.
:57:45. > :57:48.goodwill of local people giving up Without those people, we would not
:57:48. > :57:52.be at the situation where we are today where we have only lost one
:57:53. > :58:01.library throughout the county. are sad to be having to do it but
:58:01. > :58:07.we would much rather have a library manned by people whose profession
:58:07. > :58:11.is looking after libraries. council said they had to make
:58:11. > :58:21.changes to the library service to save money. The economic reality
:58:21. > :58:26.left them little choice. We have had to take �83 million out of the
:58:26. > :58:32.�300 million revenue budget by 2015. We could not continue to run 34
:58:32. > :58:35.libraries. We have had to find another way of doing it and our
:58:35. > :58:42.communities have risen to the challenge and I am thrilled and I
:58:42. > :58:48.wish them every success. As well as Puddletown, seven other libraries
:58:48. > :58:54.in Dorset are being handed over to volunteers. Opponents say that the
:58:54. > :58:59.hoped for saving of �600,000 is unrealistic. A parish council he is
:58:59. > :59:04.having to face �10,500 for the next three years to pay to keep this
:59:04. > :59:07.library open, even though it is being staffed by volunteers.
:59:07. > :59:12.they are actually paying twice for the same library now and the county
:59:12. > :59:18.council, in my rough estimate, the maximum money they will save by
:59:18. > :59:22.close of these libraries is probably less than �100,000 a year.
:59:22. > :59:26.In the next couple of days, this library will become the latest to
:59:26. > :59:30.be taken over and run by the community. While having a library
:59:30. > :59:40.here at all represent something of a victory for campaigners,
:59:40. > :59:42.
:59:42. > :59:46.supporters know there are no Of this year, the concerns for the
:59:46. > :59:50.future are what is going to happen to the financial situation. We are
:59:50. > :59:54.fairly confident that enough for year agreement we have got with the
:59:54. > :00:00.county council that that will see us through. But who knows be on
:00:00. > :00:05.that? I wonder, six months from now, how many volunteers will I still
:00:05. > :00:08.have? Will I still have their good will? Will they still turn up every
:00:09. > :00:15.week? Can I get new volunteers to replace those who have to drop out
:00:15. > :00:22.from in have? There is a my fears, keeping the service running. --
:00:22. > :00:25.from ill-health. So for now, communities like Puddletown are
:00:25. > :00:28.celebrating a new lease of life for their library. But concerns remain
:00:29. > :00:38.about the long-term future of the library service, as councils
:00:39. > :00:39.
:00:39. > :00:42.continue to try to balance the books. In the age of the internet
:00:42. > :00:46.and the coffee shop, have libraries still got a place or have they got
:00:46. > :00:53.to be modernised? A need to be modernised but they certainly have
:00:53. > :00:58.a place because they are very valuable. Volunteers can enhance
:00:58. > :01:01.them. Stability is important, getting volunteers to come through
:01:02. > :01:05.successive generations. The point was made about the parish council
:01:05. > :01:10.having to fund �10,000 is also an issue - paying twice for the same
:01:10. > :01:13.facility. But they are very important part of the community. In
:01:13. > :01:17.Oxfordshire, the campaign to keep them was very virulent and strong
:01:17. > :01:27.and successful. It is a blend of the public and private and
:01:27. > :01:28.
:01:28. > :01:31.voluntary sectors that will succeed. If the parish council and the
:01:31. > :01:35.paying �10,000 and the volunteers have to give their time, it is
:01:35. > :01:42.inefficient, isn't it? Questions have to be asked about some of the
:01:42. > :01:45.decisions that are being taken. There is the bar it graph of doom,
:01:45. > :01:49.which projects how much money will be left in not very many years just
:01:49. > :01:53.because of the growing demand on adult social care. Actually, there
:01:53. > :01:57.isn't any money left. It is clear, even in better financial Times, we
:01:57. > :02:07.have to find new ways of doing things. But some local authorities
:02:07. > :02:12.are not finding the right way of doing things. The lie breeze which
:02:12. > :02:15.have been saved in Oxfordshire - will they be able to keep going? Or
:02:15. > :02:19.one of the things we would agree on is that you can make commercial
:02:19. > :02:29.decisions about libraries, too. You can have cafes in libraries which
:02:29. > :02:30.
:02:30. > :02:33.will go up help them to keep going. In is getting those services,
:02:33. > :02:40.thinking how you run them in a different way and maybe have more
:02:40. > :02:49.volunteers going in but you still have a librarian there. And buying
:02:49. > :02:52.the books, as well. There are some new opportunities. They are have
:02:52. > :03:01.come through the localism bill. is not about existing services
:03:01. > :03:05.facing cuts for stop it is also about to renew stuff. It is about
:03:05. > :03:08.renovating community centres. We are about to sign over a community
:03:08. > :03:11.transfer for an amazing building that has been left for completely
:03:11. > :03:17.derelict and the castle can't afford to do anything with it. We
:03:17. > :03:26.are going to give it to a group of volunteers. Had they, they will
:03:26. > :03:34.bring about a life for the local community. -- hopefully. Now our
:03:34. > :03:40.regular round-up of the political week in the South in 60 seconds.
:03:40. > :03:47.Pothole patrols were deployed in West Sussex with a backlog of
:03:47. > :03:50.repairs. It may force police drivers to slow down. More than
:03:50. > :03:55.1000 patrol cars were caught speeding in the Thames Valley in
:03:55. > :03:58.two years. Most had a good reason but 53 were prosecuted for stock
:03:58. > :04:04.the us the new chief constable in Wiltshire, the first to be
:04:04. > :04:14.appointed by the new Canice -- Police and Crime Commissioners.
:04:14. > :04:15.
:04:15. > :04:21.Thursday shall sulk plans to close prisons. -- saw shock plans. From
:04:21. > :04:27.the Ministry of funny walks, a Sussex Conservative Tim Lawton
:04:27. > :04:37.presented his ten-minute rule Bill with its associated tradition and
:04:37. > :04:43.
:04:43. > :04:49.flummery. He is talking about licensing child actors. By actors
:04:49. > :04:52.and nerve-racking walk. I have done that myself! In is the week of the
:04:52. > :04:55.relaunch, the mid- term in the coalition. Do you think that one
:04:55. > :05:05.well or is it still does the economy that is going to make the
:05:05. > :05:05.
:05:05. > :05:11.difference? We had some bad job losses at Honda and the prisons. It
:05:11. > :05:14.is all about the economy. We have to get that back on track.
:05:14. > :05:18.Portsmouth is actually faring better than a lot of places. With
:05:19. > :05:22.regard to the prison, they are hope to be going to do that through only
:05:22. > :05:27.voluntary redundancies and everyone else will be offered a new role but
:05:27. > :05:31.clearly that will not suit everyone. We have to make sure people in that
:05:31. > :05:36.situation have bespoke help and support to ensure that they are
:05:36. > :05:42.able to have as many options as they possibly can. There may have
:05:42. > :05:47.to be extra money for that. Yes but does it do about the Welfare to
:05:47. > :05:50.Work programme, let's spend the money sensibly. Let's spend it on
:05:50. > :05:58.getting people the support they need rather than continuing the
:05:58. > :06:01.cycle of adding on to a totally unsustainable welfare bill.
:06:01. > :06:05.sales are big in Oxford but in general, the consumer economy seems
:06:05. > :06:15.to rely more and cars stop the British car market has been quite
:06:15. > :06:19.buoyant. The European car market has been a disaster. Certainly, the
:06:19. > :06:29.Mini, which is made in Oxford, cells known to be sent abroad but
:06:29. > :06:32.not in Europe. It is doing very well. I don't think we have time to