:01:23. > :01:27.In the south, airports closed, trains rearranged and chaos on the
:01:27. > :01:37.roads. Have we really learned anything about how to deal with
:01:37. > :01:37.
:01:37. > :40:00.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2303 seconds
:40:00. > :40:05.Anderson's will come. Were name is Peter Henley. What did you do in
:40:05. > :40:10.the big blizzard with planes cancelled, buses re-routed and
:40:10. > :40:15.traffic misery? Was the South any better prepared this time than in
:40:15. > :40:19.previous years? We will talk about that in a moment. We will also hear
:40:19. > :40:24.about government plans to change the way the probation service works
:40:24. > :40:31.and Emma Vardy sees how far she can get bartering in Oxford.
:40:31. > :40:37.Let's first meet the two politicians. The new parliamentary
:40:37. > :40:41.candidate for Oxford self. Richard -- Richard Drax is the MP for
:40:41. > :40:46.Dorset South. Through this snowy weather which will continue next
:40:46. > :40:50.week, you used to be a teacher? What do you think about teachers
:40:51. > :40:56.closing schools last Friday? A lot of parents having to look after
:40:56. > :41:01.people. It is difficult for parents. As teachers we recognise that, but
:41:01. > :41:05.it is right that schools can make the decisions for their own local
:41:05. > :41:10.circumstances. As to what is best for the children and the staff.
:41:10. > :41:17.There were places where it really was dangerous. Small village
:41:17. > :41:21.schools were you should not have people driving, or simply not safe.
:41:21. > :41:29.This wasn't just an excuse to go home early? The fact that it was
:41:29. > :41:34.Friday had nothing to do with it. Some people had exams. You are not
:41:34. > :41:41.a big fan of health and safety are you Richard? No, but common sense I
:41:41. > :41:45.am a good fan of. I suspect most teachers make a good decision. On
:41:45. > :41:50.Friday I was at a school in Weymouth that remained open. Good
:41:50. > :41:55.on them. All of the children were there and having a lovely day.
:41:55. > :41:59.you think we were better prepared? All the evidence shows that we are
:41:59. > :42:05.better prepared across the country. There is no doubt. I agree with
:42:05. > :42:09.that. Oxfordshire in particular has been much more prepared than in
:42:10. > :42:15.2011. More schools will have stayed open by the time the snow has
:42:15. > :42:19.completely passed. Can I pay tribute to those who have been out
:42:19. > :42:23.there all night working hard to keep roads and everything else
:42:23. > :42:26.clear. They deserve our thanks. Let's hope that Dunkirk spirit
:42:26. > :42:31.keeps going. Earlier this month, Chris Grayling
:42:31. > :42:36.announced his plans for a shake-up of the probation service. He is
:42:36. > :42:39.suggesting high risk cases will continue to be supervised and the
:42:39. > :42:43.public sector, but charities and private firms could take over
:42:43. > :42:47.probation work on a payment by results bases.
:42:47. > :42:51.We have one straightforward goal, to make sure we reduce the level of
:42:52. > :42:56.reoffending. We have a situation at the moment where almost half the
:42:56. > :43:00.people who go to prison reoffend. I want to make sure we break the
:43:00. > :43:07.cycle that goes round the system of people going to prison coming out,
:43:07. > :43:11.going back and on and on. If is outsourcing the answer? It is not
:43:11. > :43:17.simply out sourcing. It is capturing the best of the private
:43:17. > :43:24.and voluntary sectors. The private sector is good at preventing risk
:43:24. > :43:29.and the voluntary sector has good skills that mentoring. This is
:43:29. > :43:34.about getting the best of all of those, working together to bring
:43:34. > :43:39.down rates of reoffending. probation officers' union has been
:43:39. > :43:45.critical of those plans. With me is Keith Bennett he confronted the
:43:45. > :43:50.minister on Thursday. He put your points to him. Also joined by Clare
:43:50. > :43:57.Solano from women's we stumble also do work with ex-offenders. You are
:43:57. > :44:01.a charity? We are not for profit enterprise. Tell me what it is that
:44:01. > :44:06.you do that you think makes a difference? We work closely with
:44:06. > :44:09.probation and have done for the last four years. We provide
:44:09. > :44:15.interventions to support women, because it is gender focus support
:44:15. > :44:20.that we provide. We provide training and coaching, 1-1 support
:44:21. > :44:25.and hand-held support out in the community. Does it make a
:44:25. > :44:29.difference that it is gender- specific? Women working with women?
:44:29. > :44:33.Absolutely. We have identified that the meets women go through are
:44:33. > :44:38.different to men. The vast majority of the women we work with have a
:44:38. > :44:44.history of domestic violence or substance misuse. As such, we need
:44:44. > :44:49.to give them specific support. that is one clever idea you have
:44:49. > :44:55.come up with. How about payment by results? I you keen on that Queen -
:44:55. > :44:59.-? We already work on that sort of model. We are working with
:44:59. > :45:03.probation and one of the prime contract as with regard to that so
:45:03. > :45:09.we are used to that model. hasn't worked so well with the work
:45:09. > :45:14.programme, has it? I think what is important is to look at the work
:45:14. > :45:20.programme and look at the lessons learnt from that. Moving forward,
:45:20. > :45:24.if there is a PV our model, it then there needs to be something
:45:24. > :45:28.substantial in place to ensure that smaller organisations in the third
:45:28. > :45:36.sector are not put under unnecessary financial constraint.
:45:36. > :45:39.Keith Bennett, misguided, you say, but risky? It is risky. I think
:45:39. > :45:44.probation from its inception has managed risks in a professional
:45:44. > :45:49.manner. We assess risk and we manage people who commit these
:45:49. > :45:53.crimes to make sure that level of risk is reduced and we aim to
:45:53. > :45:58.reduce reoffending. What is wrong with what Clare is doing? There is
:45:58. > :46:02.nothing wrong. We are delighted in Hampshire to be working, and
:46:02. > :46:08.throughout the country, it to be working with other agencies to get
:46:08. > :46:11.the work done and make sure that society is safe. Our concern is
:46:11. > :46:16.that there is little evidence behind proposals to back up the
:46:16. > :46:21.suggestion that we need to break up an organisation which has won a
:46:21. > :46:26.Gold Award for excellence in 2011. It is recognised by this government
:46:26. > :46:31.and previous governments. What we do is excellent, professional, we
:46:31. > :46:36.assess risk and manage risk in the most difficult of circumstances.
:46:36. > :46:41.is not necessarily working, is it? That is the problem with the way
:46:41. > :46:45.this has been presented. Grayling are conflated the argument. He said,
:46:45. > :46:49.quite rightly in that the small amount of evidence provided the,
:46:49. > :46:55.that a large amount of people reoffending of renal -- released
:46:55. > :47:01.after short sentences. Less than 12 months sentences. They specifically
:47:01. > :47:07.are not supervised by anybody. My argument would be definitely in the
:47:07. > :47:11.Times of austerity, where we have to make cuts, we are contributing 2
:47:11. > :47:16.billion towards the coffers, but if you invest in probation now, we
:47:16. > :47:22.know we have the best reoffending rate so invest in probation, give
:47:22. > :47:26.those that would have been put on a short-term sentenced to probation,
:47:26. > :47:32.we can supervise them and act as a cheaper rate than prisons or
:47:32. > :47:35.anybody else. You take payment by results? Yes, because if we don't
:47:35. > :47:42.do the job we are doing then clearly we come under scrutiny and
:47:42. > :47:46.changes have to be made. Is there a danger of the accountability being
:47:46. > :47:51.lost because nobody is sure whether it is by the probation service or
:47:51. > :47:55.voluntary organisations? I think the proposal is clear. It says
:47:55. > :48:01.high-risk offenders stay in probation. But that is a small
:48:01. > :48:05.minority. 50,000 out of 300,000. is important to remember that what
:48:05. > :48:10.probation do is a key service. The way they do what they do is
:48:10. > :48:14.fantastic, but the consultation paper has suggested there needs to
:48:14. > :48:17.be a system in place to ensure that risk is managed. We have worked
:48:17. > :48:20.within the community for a number of years with offenders. We
:48:20. > :48:24.understand the nature of risk and how that has to be managed and
:48:25. > :48:28.there has to be open communication. If the government is going to go
:48:28. > :48:32.forward it is about ensuring channels are clear up with
:48:32. > :48:37.providers and ensuring that we work collaboratively with probation
:48:37. > :48:47.Trust. Let's ask least two over here how they think it is going.
:48:47. > :48:51.Chris Grayling's idea. Obviously a huge problem. But we have seen at
:48:51. > :48:57.the Olympics big private companies giving problems. It is an
:48:57. > :49:04.experiment, isn't it. It is not. Well in so that it has not been
:49:04. > :49:08.tried before. We have to tackle reoffending and I take the. That
:49:08. > :49:14.short-term prisoners are Beagrie offenders. But reoffending is still
:49:14. > :49:19.far too high so it has to be a team effort. It is taking away the
:49:19. > :49:27.responsibility. No, it is a team effort bringing in all sectors to
:49:27. > :49:35.tackle the problem. There has been an Airborne Initiative set up in
:49:35. > :49:39.Dartmoor. It is working. It is absolutely extraordinary. I think
:49:39. > :49:43.we have to be careful because there will always be examples of where it
:49:43. > :49:48.works in isolated areas. What worries me is that it is being
:49:48. > :49:52.rolled out across the country. It is an experiment, I am a scientist,
:49:52. > :49:57.you take a sample and see if it works across a large enough area
:49:57. > :50:02.that it matters statistically, but you should not do something this
:50:02. > :50:06.radical without decent evidence in place that it will work. I think
:50:06. > :50:10.the word that organisation does, Clare, is fantastic. It is locally-
:50:10. > :50:14.based and it does work. But what worries me is your level of
:50:14. > :50:18.providers, the small ones based in the community, because this is a
:50:18. > :50:22.complex issue and will take a whole community to solve it, are going to
:50:22. > :50:26.be frozen out because they cannot read bits and everything that goes
:50:26. > :50:32.with that. In the end, what we will seek his massive organisations
:50:32. > :50:36.taking this on and I am worried and sceptical that it is going to work
:50:36. > :50:42.and I am worried that we will end up spending more money giving it to
:50:42. > :50:45.be private sector enterprises and it might not work. Richard Drax? De
:50:46. > :50:51.you share those concerns from the Conservative point of view? Yes. I
:50:51. > :50:54.am naturally cautious on this. It is a risky step we are taking, but
:50:54. > :50:58.the situation is such an has gone on for so long that I think we
:50:58. > :51:04.should try and do something different because the reoffending
:51:04. > :51:08.is unacceptable. The cost is unacceptable. If we can somehow,
:51:08. > :51:11.with all the resources we have got and there are many excellent
:51:11. > :51:18.organisations, it teamed up with the many excellent resources and
:51:18. > :51:22.Cup this. Then we will achieve the end. This is the concern we have.
:51:23. > :51:28.We work it successfully with women's wisdom in Southampton.
:51:28. > :51:34.Grayling mentioned the Peterborough example. The problem with that is
:51:34. > :51:38.we are not due to get the results from bat until 2014. It is a
:51:39. > :51:45.massive risk and we are putting the public at risk by fragmenting the
:51:45. > :51:51.probation service. As far as we have said, job deal
:51:51. > :51:55.has been rolled out across Hampshire, Surrey, Sussex and Kent.
:51:55. > :51:59.Effectively smaller organisations have already been working with
:51:59. > :52:04.those probation trust in those areas. So if we want to look to see
:52:04. > :52:09.whether it can work, we know it can work. We get fantastic results
:52:09. > :52:14.because we are looking at offending path ways. Supporting someone threw
:52:14. > :52:20.the whole journey. Through the gates, supporting housing needs,
:52:20. > :52:23.substance misuse needs but working in collaboration with trusts.
:52:23. > :52:28.Experiment or not, let us hope it works.
:52:28. > :52:32.Difficult times can lead to people and businesses finding innovative
:52:32. > :52:37.ways around their financial problems. Increase the economic
:52:37. > :52:44.crisis has prompted communities to begin bartering. That is something
:52:44. > :52:48.that is making a come -- making a comeback in this country. Allowing
:52:48. > :52:53.companies to swap goods and services. This traditional currency
:52:53. > :52:56.overrated? We send our reporter to find out.
:52:56. > :53:01.The challenge of today is to do away with money and credit cards,
:53:01. > :53:05.but by the end of it to have gathered a few items into this
:53:05. > :53:11.basket. I am starting off with nothing. All I have to give his
:53:11. > :53:15.myself and my time. I have come to a supermarket in Oxford that is a
:53:15. > :53:18.little bit different and will let me volunteer in exchange for a few
:53:19. > :53:26.goods to kick-start our day exploring the old tradition of
:53:26. > :53:31.bartering. This supermarket already runs a
:53:31. > :53:35.scheme where people swap their time in exchange for money or food. I am
:53:35. > :53:40.taking things a step further and have struck a deal to work in
:53:40. > :53:45.return for some goods. If I can get tutor Paul all of the drinks
:53:45. > :53:50.forward. What do you think about people exchanging goods instead of
:53:50. > :53:57.many? I think it is great. If you get a Porsche we can split the
:53:57. > :54:03.money! I think I am getting them hang of this. Time to get paid.
:54:03. > :54:07.Instead of an hourly rate, I have learnt this. Now we have something
:54:07. > :54:11.to barter with it is off to find other people willing to negotiate.
:54:11. > :54:17.I know this isn't the normal way you would do business, but just for
:54:17. > :54:24.today will that work for you? With some cooking sauces? Drove a source
:54:24. > :54:31.in and we will call it a deal. Good doing business with you. Filling up
:54:31. > :54:34.nicely. I will give you the hooter. It looks good to me. Thank you very
:54:34. > :54:39.much. There are people who do this on a
:54:39. > :54:43.bigger scale. Schemes have been set up to help businesses bartered
:54:44. > :54:48.goods and services. Barter card says it now handles 6000 bartering
:54:48. > :54:51.transactions per month. We allow people to swap their goods
:54:51. > :54:56.and services for things that they need within their business or,
:54:56. > :55:00.perhaps, in their normal lives. Businesses can conserve their cash
:55:00. > :55:04.and make exchanges was in the bartered card system building up a
:55:04. > :55:09.form of credit. What are the advantages? It allows
:55:09. > :55:13.you to do things that maybe in this day and age you can't do in the
:55:13. > :55:18.cash economy. One of the first things that goes is training or
:55:18. > :55:23.advertising. If you can use your goods and services to pay for those
:55:23. > :55:28.things then you can make progress when people in the cash economy
:55:28. > :55:32.might be struggling. The idea of creating alternative forms of
:55:32. > :55:37.credit is something some towns and cities are doing like the Midhurst
:55:37. > :55:42.Town. They locals only currency created to stimulate the town's
:55:42. > :55:48.economy. Back in Oxford I found a restaurant
:55:48. > :55:53.where the owner will take customers crockery in exchange for sausages.
:55:53. > :55:56.I realise it is a tricky market. Going out for a meal is a luxury so
:55:56. > :56:01.I have said we need fantastic teapots in the restaurant and I
:56:01. > :56:07.will swap them for sausages. There are you ready to negotiate? I think
:56:07. > :56:14.we are. This chap could be tricky to use in the restaurant. Five
:56:14. > :56:19.sausages, five cupcakes. That is a deal. Good work.
:56:19. > :56:24.Well, we will not doing too badly, but I think it is time to try and
:56:24. > :56:28.trade this lot up for something a bit bigger.
:56:28. > :56:36.That looks ideal. Could you let it go in return for some great produce
:56:36. > :56:42.to take home with you? It's a bit of fun, yes, go on I will go for it.
:56:42. > :56:46.Do we have a deal? Yes, OK. Thank you.
:56:46. > :56:50.While we are unlikely to see bartering replacing financial
:56:50. > :56:55.transactions, in tough economic times it has proved a viable way of
:56:55. > :57:02.businesses trading with one another to gain advantages and for me, I
:57:02. > :57:06.have ended up with this baby. Not a bad day's work.
:57:06. > :57:12.A bicycle is a good thing to have been Oxford. It is going to a good
:57:12. > :57:18.cause in the end. Labour, what if everybody did this? Well, they are
:57:18. > :57:22.not going to, are they? It started of thousands of years ago and we
:57:22. > :57:27.then invented money to get away from doing this. It is time
:57:27. > :57:30.consuming. What I really liked about that was that you saw she was
:57:30. > :57:36.having conversations with people. It was bringing the community
:57:36. > :57:39.together. At the same time, these other schemes stimulate the local
:57:39. > :57:45.economy and there is an environmental side to this. My
:57:45. > :57:51.party has said for a very long time that we like to push re-using and
:57:51. > :57:55.not just recycling. This is more of that idea. I don't think it will
:57:55. > :57:59.replace many though, do you? Probably not because it is a big
:57:59. > :58:04.effort. But for business is struggling, if this is a way of
:58:04. > :58:13.getting rid of extra tables in a restaurant or a few extra haircuts,
:58:13. > :58:19.or is it like a builder taking cash? Is it a bit of a Dodge?
:58:19. > :58:24.a little bit like Del Boy in one respect. How will you monitor what
:58:24. > :58:30.is going on because I believe tax has to be paid? The company barter
:58:30. > :58:34.card are doing the VAT so it is difficult to assess the value of
:58:34. > :58:40.everything received. I cannot see this replacing the traditional
:58:40. > :58:48.method of buying things, but it is great. When tough times hit,
:58:48. > :58:52.bartering becomes much more relevant. Companies have to be a
:58:52. > :58:58.lot more on their toes, haven't they? You must be saying that in
:58:58. > :59:03.Dorset South? Absolutely. People are becoming very enterprising and
:59:03. > :59:07.it is a wonderful thing about the human spirit. That said, when it
:59:07. > :59:12.comes to tax we have to be careful. You don't want to stop the scheme
:59:12. > :59:21.that I think is good for the community. HMRC has bigger fish to
:59:21. > :59:24.prior -- bigger fish to fry. different is it is Starbucks?
:59:24. > :59:32.different! Extraordinarily different. It is a little bit
:59:32. > :59:36.different. One way of bartering, you could do today is in the House
:59:36. > :59:41.of Commons and I could do one day here. I can think of a few changes
:59:41. > :59:51.I would suggest. A were regular round-up of the week
:59:51. > :59:53.
:59:53. > :59:59.Crowd saucing is the latest way to fund business ideas like this
:59:59. > :00:06.waterproof map. David over 10 fund his backers on the internet. We can
:00:06. > :00:10.be really proud of this invention. A Reading chocolate company has
:00:10. > :00:15.done the same after being rejected by the banks.
:00:15. > :00:18.Also left disappointed, a marine conservation charities criticised
:00:18. > :00:24.government protection zones which included none in the Solent or Isle
:00:24. > :00:28.of Wight. The slow boat from China - shipping
:00:28. > :00:34.companies told captains to take up to a week longer to save fuel. If
:00:34. > :00:38.that brings down supermarket prices, John Denham would gee-up. The Tesco
:00:38. > :00:43.big price drop campaign, for every two items that dropped in price,
:00:43. > :00:48.three went up. The Private Member's Bill he
:00:48. > :00:54.introduced would force supermarkets to release price data so comparison
:00:54. > :00:59.websites can tell us if two for one of us are really any good.
:00:59. > :01:06.Buy one get one free. And you get Richard who used to be a reporter
:01:06. > :01:10.but isn't any more. I am not free anymore either. Certainly not. In
:01:10. > :01:15.this economy where people really are struggling, is the answer going
:01:15. > :01:20.to be all about finding new ways of doing things? Crowd sourcing in
:01:20. > :01:24.order to get your business back? I think we can't blame the
:01:24. > :01:30.recession for everything. During a recession we find that people can
:01:30. > :01:36.bring innovation to what they do. I think there are issues with some
:01:36. > :01:41.older style businesses who have yet to come up to speed with a modern
:01:41. > :01:45.world. Is that about resource in? I think there are things the
:01:45. > :01:50.government can do. Making sure they are lending to small businesses.
:01:50. > :01:55.Vince Cable has been pushing back for a long time. Also ensuring
:01:55. > :02:00.there are schemes allowing people to catch up. Also, broadband access.
:02:00. > :02:04.There are parts of this area who have big issues of broadband access.
:02:04. > :02:08.We can't expect small business to use the internet without that.
:02:08. > :02:14.Quickly, we need trim -- traditional communities and
:02:14. > :02:18.traditional shops it be kept going? Of course we do. People have to
:02:18. > :02:23.think way out of their boxes. Some local libraries are now run by
:02:23. > :02:27.local people. This would have been unheard of 10 years ago. We are now
:02:27. > :02:36.having to rethink things. Both of you, thank you for coming
:02:36. > :02:41.in through the snow. Our pleasure. Thank you to both of my guests.