:01:23. > :01:26.In the South... Are there too many high-stakes gambling machines in
:01:26. > :01:36.deprived neighbourhoods? A nice little earner for the bookies, but
:01:36. > :01:36.
:01:36. > :37:05.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2128 seconds
:37:05. > :37:08.are they creating more problem Welcome to Sunday Politics South,
:37:08. > :37:12.my name is Peter Henley. Today, high-stakes gambling machines in
:37:12. > :37:17.betting shops. Are too many of them spreading into careers areas,
:37:17. > :37:25.leading to hire rates of gambling by the punters who can least afford
:37:25. > :37:29.it? -- poorer areas. More on that in a moment. First,
:37:29. > :37:32.let us meet the two politicians who will be with me for the next 20
:37:32. > :37:34.minutes. Tony Page is the Labour deputy leader of Reading Borough
:37:34. > :37:38.Council and Chris Chope is the Conservative MP for Christchurch.
:37:38. > :37:44.Chris Chope, you spoke in the Commons about ministerial
:37:44. > :37:50.responsibility. Is this causing problems? It is, in relation to the
:37:50. > :37:54.boundary review. The coalition agreement, in response to that baby
:37:54. > :38:00.referendum, the Lib Dems would support the boundary report -- the
:38:00. > :38:10.boundary review. -- the alternative fog referendum. They have reneged
:38:10. > :38:10.
:38:10. > :38:14.on that. -- alternative vote referendum. The Liberal Democrats
:38:14. > :38:19.could see you have not got your head around doing modern politics,
:38:19. > :38:23.or do you think the coalition could break down? We could have
:38:23. > :38:26.effectively two versions of one particular policy, the spending on
:38:26. > :38:30.whether it is coming from the Liberal Democrats on the
:38:30. > :38:35.Conservatives. I would have preferred us to have gone into
:38:35. > :38:38.minority Government. But it is very hard to see, as we get closer to a
:38:39. > :38:43.General Election, how you can keep one single Government comprising
:38:43. > :38:49.two separate parties, which will increasingly want to express their
:38:49. > :38:52.own separate identities. Tony Page, you have had coalition that Reading
:38:52. > :38:57.Borough Council, the Liberal Democrats in with the Conservatives.
:38:57. > :39:01.Do you think it is any easier at a local Government level? It is not
:39:01. > :39:06.necessarily easier. But you have to define the areas where you are
:39:06. > :39:10.currently together on an agreed part form, and identify the areas
:39:10. > :39:17.would you can be lose that. -- agreed platform. Do the Government
:39:17. > :39:24.understand? I think the public do it. The fact is, issues such as
:39:24. > :39:29.press litigation were not understood it in their agreement
:39:29. > :39:32.for the coalition. So you have to be more relaxed. There was an
:39:32. > :39:36.excellent programme on BBC Parliament yesterday about the
:39:36. > :39:41.Wilson years, when part of the party were allowed to campaign
:39:41. > :39:45.diametrically opposed on Europe. There have been occasions when
:39:45. > :39:51.parties can be a bit more relaxed. A possibly more give and take.
:39:51. > :39:55.Fixed-odds betting terminals. Probably not something that reminds
:39:55. > :39:59.-- not something that trips off your tongue on a regular basis. But
:39:59. > :40:03.if you are a bookmaker, you will know exactly what they are. Money-
:40:03. > :40:05.spinning machines that can make you up to �900 per week in profits. In
:40:05. > :40:09.the 2005 Gambling Act, the Government limited betting shops to
:40:09. > :40:12.a maximum of four machines. But according to the Campaign for
:40:12. > :40:15.Fairer Gambling, the bookies are just opening more shops, often in
:40:15. > :40:24.poor areas. Derek Webb founded the campaign and he joins me now from
:40:24. > :40:28.Westminster. What is it that you are concerned about? What is the
:40:28. > :40:38.campaign fighting to change? have started a new direction with
:40:38. > :40:42.
:40:42. > :40:46.the campaign, wanting to stop they fixed on betting terminals. --
:40:46. > :40:50.fixed-odds betting terminals. There are now about 35,000 of them, which
:40:50. > :40:57.are very profitable, as you said. Betting shops are really going for
:40:57. > :41:02.them instead of the sort of one's people used to. Is it that they are
:41:02. > :41:10.taking too much money off punters and punters do not realise? I think
:41:10. > :41:18.it is far deeper than that. The money is astounding. 1.4 billion is
:41:18. > :41:23.the latest year's figures. That is from a gross amount gambled of
:41:23. > :41:30.around 45 billion. They are really targeting prisoner areas.
:41:30. > :41:34.Consequently, we are finding a lot of problem gamblers. -- targeting
:41:34. > :41:39.poorer areas. There are a lot of economic consequences of gambling
:41:39. > :41:43.that affect families, so it is a broader issue than just the profits
:41:43. > :41:49.of the bookmakers. Gambling is gambling. People have different
:41:49. > :41:53.opinions about it. For example, the roulette wheel, they take is about
:41:53. > :42:00.15%? These machines, the pretender to his roulette, but your chances
:42:00. > :42:05.of winning a much lower. Is that the bottom line? My not exactly.
:42:05. > :42:11.You are talking about roulette as a casino game. The main difference
:42:11. > :42:16.between at roulette in a betting shop and in a casino is the pace of
:42:16. > :42:21.the game is about 4.5 times faster. So you lose your money for 0.5
:42:21. > :42:26.times quicker. If you are not as wealthy as a casino player to start
:42:26. > :42:33.with, then it really hurts and in Padua. -- you lose your money for
:42:33. > :42:39.0.5 times Kaka. And the other in every community. -- 4.5 times
:42:39. > :42:43.quicker. And psychological studies, the idea that you would almost win.
:42:43. > :42:49.The near-miss element is greater with the machines than roulette?
:42:49. > :42:56.Correct. It is the roulette content, and this applies to run out in
:42:56. > :43:00.general, that its allows you to trade up your wager as you start to
:43:00. > :43:06.get involved in the game. You have more spins, want to bet more
:43:06. > :43:13.numbers, want to bed more on one number ban another number. But you
:43:13. > :43:17.end up seeing players betting about 20 numbers. And the mind that even
:43:17. > :43:22.win one that spend. This is where you see addictive behaviour coming
:43:22. > :43:28.in. It is not just recreational, someone just playing a few numbers.
:43:28. > :43:34.Let us speak to the studio. You are concerned about this targeting
:43:34. > :43:39.poorer areas? I share those concerns. We have clustering in
:43:39. > :43:46.Reading, real concern, and we have lost a planning appeal down Oxford
:43:46. > :43:52.wrote in Reading for a new arcade. There is concern amongst the local
:43:52. > :43:57.community. Particular a hours could use can be the concern. If they are
:43:57. > :44:03.more conventional shop hours, for example. The original application
:44:03. > :44:05.was 24 hours access. We have beaten that back. But we have lost the
:44:05. > :44:10.principle of the loss of this particular shop, which is
:44:10. > :44:14.regrettable. The case for regulation of public information?
:44:14. > :44:19.People seem to be spending a lot of their money. Perhaps public
:44:19. > :44:23.information about the real ones, which can be done by anybody. One
:44:23. > :44:30.issue is problem gambling, the other is insuring that people who
:44:30. > :44:34.want to engage in social gambling can do so. I have visited betting
:44:34. > :44:38.shops and spoken to constituents in Christchurch, and people think of
:44:38. > :44:42.it as a relaxation and part of recreation. We do not want to
:44:42. > :44:46.prevent them being able to have a recreational activity, because
:44:46. > :44:53.there are problem gamblers elsewhere. What is your response to
:44:53. > :44:59.that, Derek? It is easy to visit a betting shop on a Friday or
:44:59. > :45:03.Saturday afternoon, when the bookmaker invite you, when you are
:45:04. > :45:08.taken to a shop with two or three staff, and no violent customers. It
:45:08. > :45:14.is different going into a betting shop in a poorer area, where people
:45:14. > :45:17.are damaging machines, single staff looking after premises, a big
:45:18. > :45:22.difference between the casual visitor and the players who are
:45:22. > :45:26.there every day. Maybe Christchurch has nice betting shops?
:45:26. > :45:32.licensing regime should be able to deal with these issues. And it
:45:32. > :45:38.could, couldn't it? The Gambling Act could reduce the maximum stake,
:45:38. > :45:42.increase the time between spins? is not just the Gambling Act. The
:45:42. > :45:46.Minister right now, Hugh Robertson, has the power today to do this and
:45:46. > :45:51.he says, commonsense says there is a problem, he just needs the
:45:51. > :45:55.evidence. That is why we have kicked up this campaign, because we
:45:55. > :46:00.need more of evidence. We think we have adequate evidence, but we are
:46:00. > :46:03.getting lots of stories from people, the problems they are experiencing,
:46:03. > :46:08.lots of shop managers explaining what is happening on premises, so
:46:08. > :46:13.we are building up anecdotal evidence, but the reviewers to
:46:13. > :46:17.support the campaign -- but need reviewers to support the campaign.
:46:17. > :46:22.Go to betting shops yourself, form your own opinions, watch the
:46:22. > :46:26.players, watch behaviour and machines, see the numbers that a
:46:26. > :46:31.bet, and you will understand they should not be easily accessible on
:46:31. > :46:35.the high street. Thank you for introducing us to this.
:46:35. > :46:38.The Eastleigh by-election moved up a gear this week, if that is
:46:38. > :46:42.possible for a campaign that started at a high temple.
:46:42. > :46:52.Nominations closed on Wednesday, so we now know who all the candidates
:46:52. > :47:02.
:47:02. > :47:06.are. Tristan Pascoe has been taking 41 years ago this very week,
:47:06. > :47:13.Eastleigh's most famous son was riding high in the charts. These
:47:13. > :47:18.days, Eastleigh it is almost as famous for what it has lost. The
:47:18. > :47:23.company that inspired his song has long gone, replaced by a shopping
:47:23. > :47:29.centre. The railway works, once a major building Hub, is now a shadow
:47:29. > :47:33.of its former self. The Mr Kipling bakery closed nearly ten years ago.
:47:33. > :47:38.The nearby factory has been raised to the ground. At one of the
:47:38. > :47:43.biggest local employers, the Ford factory, is switching production of
:47:43. > :47:51.its Transit van to Turkey. Heaslip has only had four MPs since the
:47:51. > :47:55.seat was created in 1955. -- Eastleigh. The Lib Dems snatch it
:47:55. > :47:59.from the Conservatives in 1994. Ironically, given that history, the
:47:59. > :48:05.Lib Dems and Conservatives are head-to-head, but this time, and
:48:05. > :48:08.for the first time, in coalition. As part of Hampshire County
:48:08. > :48:13.Council's waist and the narrow strategy, this former airfield is
:48:13. > :48:18.being considered for between 2 million and 3 million tonnes of
:48:18. > :48:22.gravel extraction. It is a historic picture postcard village in one of
:48:22. > :48:28.the most beautiful parts of the country. The Tories want to what
:48:28. > :48:34.end, read out the heart of it, it is just grotesque. I would not make
:48:34. > :48:38.it my top issues. I will continue to support all action groups I have
:48:38. > :48:41.worked with over-development and the gravel pits. I have been a
:48:41. > :48:45.businesswoman for 31 years and understand what we need to do to
:48:45. > :48:53.grow business. I will work on that in Parliament for the people of
:48:53. > :48:58.Eastleigh. Party's candidate sees immigration as the big issue. --
:48:58. > :49:02.party's candidate. If it was not so attractive for their benefits
:49:03. > :49:12.system, we would not have eastern Europeans coming here, therefore
:49:13. > :49:15.
:49:15. > :49:22.needing housing. -- party macro -- UKIP. We need more housing, council
:49:22. > :49:27.housing. I think we need to regulate private rents as well.
:49:27. > :49:37.the stage is set. The gloves are off and this could be a better and
:49:37. > :49:41.
:49:41. > :49:48.So we can expect to see even more of the party bigwigs out in force
:49:48. > :49:52.between now and polling day. There are another 10 candidates
:49:52. > :49:57.standing from all across the political spectrum, making a total
:49:57. > :50:04.of 14. You'll be able to see those candidates and a special programme
:50:04. > :50:07.we will run next Sunday. More on that later will -- more on that
:50:07. > :50:12.later. More details on all the candidates on the BBC website at
:50:12. > :50:15.bbc.co.uk/news. It is facing tsunami of retirement,
:50:15. > :50:19.according to one recruitment consultant. The farming industry
:50:19. > :50:23.needs to be recruiting at least 5,000 people per year for the next
:50:23. > :50:28.ten years to replace all those who will be reaching retirement age.
:50:28. > :50:31.That will be almost a third of the workforce of nearly half-a-million.
:50:31. > :50:34.With all the stories of poor harvests, crops costing more to
:50:34. > :50:39.raise than they sell for and worries about what you are eating,
:50:39. > :50:44.who would want to be a farmer? Trevor Cligg is a farmer in West
:50:44. > :50:49.Dorset and joins us now. You are a happy farmer? Some of the time.
:50:49. > :50:54.worried about people leaving the industry? I do not think so.
:50:54. > :50:57.Although we probably do need 5,000 new recruits per year, there is a
:50:57. > :51:02.significant number coming through every year, we have agricultural
:51:02. > :51:07.colleges across the country, most counties have one. Those have
:51:07. > :51:11.increased their numbers of places, uptake is always oversubscribed.
:51:11. > :51:14.Whilst it is a problem, I do not think it is going to be a
:51:14. > :51:19.catastrophe. Would you encourage your own children to go into
:51:19. > :51:23.farming? I would if they wanted to. I would not push them into it,
:51:23. > :51:32.because she should not push too hard. I know your daughters, they
:51:32. > :51:35.are going into farming? Possibly agriculture to be related.
:51:35. > :51:42.Agriculture relief related. It is an outdoor life, but you need to
:51:42. > :51:47.understand a lot about science. As we saw what horsemeat, you need to
:51:47. > :51:51.us -- you need to understand the whole consequences. That horsemeat
:51:51. > :51:54.think is beyond our control, happening after everything has left
:51:54. > :51:58.the farm and we have given up control of the product. But the
:51:58. > :52:08.farm worker of the future is going to be someone who is highly
:52:08. > :52:13.educated, they are going to be very IT savvy, but I think we need to
:52:13. > :52:18.get away from this misconception that farming is a menial job.
:52:18. > :52:23.Because whilst we do get our hands dirty, other times we are in the
:52:23. > :52:27.office sorting things out, we are using robotic equipment, it is
:52:27. > :52:31.becoming a high-tech industry and has a big future. I get the
:52:31. > :52:35.impression that the way society sees farming is still very much an
:52:35. > :52:39.urban view. Others horsemeat scandal seems to have reinforced
:52:39. > :52:44.that. A sense we do not know where food is coming from. I sense that
:52:44. > :52:48.is inevitable really, and the way I do not understand someone's life
:52:48. > :52:52.who lives in a high-rise flat in inner-city London. They will not
:52:52. > :52:56.understand my life. It is an educational problem, no one's fault,
:52:56. > :53:00.and I do not know what the answer is. But people are starting to care
:53:00. > :53:09.about where food is coming from. Is that a good friend? The definitely.
:53:09. > :53:15.The horsemeat scandal... -- is that a good thing? Definitely. Horsemeat
:53:15. > :53:20.scandal shows the need to increase UK production base. When you have a
:53:21. > :53:25.good change which goes from Romania to Greece to France to Minerva and
:53:25. > :53:34.ends up on tables in this country, it is so complicated. There is no
:53:34. > :53:39.control. Chris Chope, is the time Laura by a British campaign? -- is
:53:39. > :53:45.the time for a campaign to buy food that is British? Somehow the
:53:45. > :53:52.consumer is not recognised? One of the problems is regulation. The
:53:52. > :53:57.irony is that we introduced lots of regulation and the result of that
:53:57. > :54:00.has been that it has pushed up the price of meat in the United Kingdom
:54:01. > :54:05.and manufacturers have gone overseas to buy off all over there,
:54:05. > :54:12.which is not regulated. That is the consequence of not having thought
:54:12. > :54:17.through the consequences. Are you buying unregulated meat? I am not.
:54:17. > :54:23.But some are. This is something that has been going on for a long
:54:23. > :54:26.time. I think it was in the late 80s, early 90s, some crates were
:54:26. > :54:35.banned in the UK, and yet it was illegal to produce it in this
:54:35. > :54:43.country, but not illegal to import it. We have a recent other
:54:43. > :54:47.incidents of something like this. Some stalls were banned and the UK
:54:47. > :54:53.across ten years ago, but 17 countries across Europe have not
:54:53. > :54:56.complied with that. And a metre in that way is coming in. European
:54:56. > :55:00.regulations ought to have sorted this out and have not. I do not
:55:00. > :55:05.know if we can blame it on Europe. The supermarkets themselves have a
:55:05. > :55:08.lot to answer for it, they are all buyers, driving down the price of a
:55:08. > :55:14.lot of these commodities, and farmers have rightly complained
:55:14. > :55:23.about that. They cannot be surprised that some white boy
:55:23. > :55:32.elsewhere decides to try and slip something into the process. -- wide
:55:32. > :55:36.boy. Is the industry at fault? cannot see that. Where there is
:55:36. > :55:41.criminal fraud taking place, and we see that endemic in so many aspects
:55:41. > :55:46.of what happens in the European Union, it is not surprising that it
:55:47. > :55:51.is contaminating the United Kingdom in his food processing. But can I
:55:51. > :55:57.make the point that, in looking at the difference in what is they are
:55:57. > :56:03.in perspective on farming and the rural perspective, one of my
:56:03. > :56:07.farmers wants to have a herdsman and he wants to get that person an
:56:07. > :56:12.agricultural tenancy. He cant, even in a Dorset local authority, get a
:56:12. > :56:19.real understanding that, if you have a herdsman, you need to have
:56:19. > :56:25.been close to the herd 24/7. are telling me you are advertising
:56:25. > :56:32.for that? Yes. And he gets a house as well? Yes. What sort of money is
:56:32. > :56:40.going into... I am not tell you what he will get, but a herdsman
:56:40. > :56:45.will earn a minimum of �25,000- �30,000. Buses accommodation.
:56:45. > :56:48.you very much for keeping us up to date. -- plus his of -- plus his
:56:48. > :56:55.accommodation. Now the regular round-up of the
:56:55. > :57:00.political week in the South in 60 seconds.
:57:00. > :57:04.Councils have been setting budgets and announcing further cuts, �7
:57:04. > :57:10.million and Southampton. Not what we are here to do, but we had to
:57:10. > :57:14.act lawfully and legally. It is 7 million on top of �8 million and
:57:14. > :57:18.Portsmouth, but they are trying to protect some services. Targeting
:57:18. > :57:23.the money at the most vulnerable children. New cash to reopen at
:57:23. > :57:27.Dorset Railway. It has been closed for 40 years, but got cash from a
:57:28. > :57:32.pot to help coastal communities. Meanwhile, �6 million went to the
:57:32. > :57:37.wrong bank account after a mistake back Oxfordshire County Council
:57:37. > :57:43.staff, blaming a training issue and the money was recovered. The Thames
:57:43. > :57:47.Valley Chief Constable has made 18 in the list of most powerful women.
:57:47. > :57:52.And an MP told the Commons he is donating his powerful body to
:57:52. > :58:01.science in recognition of his local NHS Trust when I am opened up,
:58:01. > :58:06.inscribed on my heart will be there once, keep their General Hospital.
:58:06. > :58:12.Would you do make your body to science, Chris Chope? I do not
:58:12. > :58:17.think size would need my body. Page? I have by donor card, they
:58:17. > :58:23.can have what they like. Local authorities squeezed, going on,
:58:23. > :58:27.more than central Government? we were a sacrificial lamb offered
:58:27. > :58:36.by Eric Pickles early on. Just a portion of large cuts, impacting
:58:36. > :58:41.across the country. -- disproportionately large cuts.
:58:41. > :58:46.There is the new Conservative West Berkshire, police commissioner,
:58:46. > :58:50.this is real big cuts. Dorset being squeezed? It is, but in my
:58:50. > :58:54.constituency, this seemed to have found a quarter of a million pounds
:58:54. > :58:58.for a cycle track, whilst cutting others. It is an issue of
:58:58. > :59:04.priorities. That is their public accountability comes in, elections
:59:04. > :59:11.coming up, councillors accounting for their priorities. But cycling
:59:11. > :59:16.initiatives will be funded from other areas. That is ring-fenced.
:59:16. > :59:21.Meanwhile you have potholes? Take that are with Eric Pickles. It is
:59:21. > :59:27.council priorities. And the Government's priorities, giving the
:59:27. > :59:31.money Para-cycling. It is all about infrastructure, supposedly. That is
:59:31. > :59:35.their Sunday Politics in the south. Thank you to my guests, Christopher
:59:35. > :59:39.Chope and Tony Page. Next week, we have a special programme, an hour-
:59:39. > :59:44.long debate between the candidates and voters in Eastleigh. Yet the
:59:44. > :59:49.campaign so far is anything to go by, it should be lively. It will be