:01:19. > :01:22.on the rise was up 35 on the Isle of Wight alone. Are we falling out of
:01:23. > :01:32.love with the party machine? Without that machine, could you get anything
:01:33. > :01:33.
:01:33. > :36:03.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2070 seconds
:36:03. > :36:05.name's Peter Henley. On today's programme: ? The Isle of Wight has
:36:05. > :36:08.35 independents standing for 40 seats.
:36:08. > :36:11.All over the South, more people are going it alone and shunning the
:36:11. > :36:18.established parties. Have we really fallen out of love with the
:36:18. > :36:22.political mainstream? More on that shortly. First, let's meet to
:36:22. > :36:28.politicians who will be with me for the next 20 minutes was up Layla
:36:28. > :36:35.Moran is the Parliamentary candidate for Oxford West and Abingdon. Alok
:36:35. > :36:45.Sharma is the MP for Reading West. Have you got a conservatory on your
:36:45. > :36:47.
:36:47. > :36:55.house quest you Mark? I do, yes.Do you have planning permission?
:36:55. > :36:58.is Labour Party hypocrisy. It was the Labour Party that introduced
:36:58. > :37:08.permitted developments so that it was not just roof extensions but
:37:08. > :37:11.rear extension six well. We have to be clear that we are talking about
:37:11. > :37:15.small excesses. You try to stop small ventures that were
:37:15. > :37:18.inappropriate. What is going on? Secretary of State has said very
:37:18. > :37:22.clearly that he is cleared to build a broad consensus and there will be
:37:22. > :37:26.some more odysseys coming out very shortly and C but that comes up
:37:26. > :37:30.with. The key point to make here is that people have said that somehow
:37:30. > :37:34.this is having a go at localism and all that was the pit is about having
:37:34. > :37:38.local people have a chance to build small extensions but councils still
:37:38. > :37:44.have an opportunity to turn down permitted development rights under
:37:44. > :37:49.section four. It is not a free for all. People also have to abide by
:37:49. > :37:54.building regulations abide by the right to light. A whole bunch of
:37:54. > :37:58.regulations will stop it is not a free for all. I'm a little concerned
:37:58. > :38:02.by it all. It is a recipe for getting neighbours to fight with
:38:02. > :38:07.each other. We have local democracy for a reason. My view is it should
:38:07. > :38:13.be left to local government to decide how best to fulfil these
:38:13. > :38:19.policies will stop. Surely it will create some demand in the local
:38:19. > :38:26.economy? But the source policies don't usually have long-term
:38:26. > :38:29.results. The Secretary of State's has said he wants a broad consensus.
:38:29. > :38:33.Before any judgements, let's see what he comes up with. This is about
:38:33. > :38:36.to stimulate in jobs and the local economy and work for small companies
:38:36. > :38:40.and builders was up that is something we should welcome. The you
:38:40. > :38:44.think that will happen? Supporting local businesses is something the
:38:44. > :38:52.liberal Democrats like to do but in the context of making sure it is
:38:52. > :38:59.good for everyone in the local community. Would I worry about is it
:38:59. > :39:02.will be taken out of the hands of the local government. The funeral of
:39:02. > :39:06.Margaret Thatcher this week certainly caused plenty of heated
:39:06. > :39:11.debate will stop part of it being about Conservative proposals to name
:39:11. > :39:15.a new non-residential Street in Portsmouth after her. The city has a
:39:15. > :39:18.bit of form in commemorating former premises was up their streets named
:39:18. > :39:21.after Jim Callaghan, Clement Attlee, Winston Churchill and even Lord
:39:21. > :39:29.North if you can remember as far back as 18th century. The modern
:39:29. > :39:34.plan hasn't gone down quite so well. You were saying that you thought it
:39:34. > :39:38.was too soon to do this? That was my initial reaction when I heard that
:39:38. > :39:46.the proposal had been put forward. The proposal was made before the
:39:47. > :39:50.funeral had taken place. How long that you wait? You have quoted the
:39:50. > :39:54.other streets we have named, Bowser been established. Jim Callaghan had
:39:54. > :39:58.been out of office for a long time. Certainly a long time after Winston
:39:58. > :40:06.Churchill and Clement Attlee. That was certainly my initial reaction
:40:06. > :40:13.but reflecting upon it, I felt that it was unlikely to have the backing
:40:13. > :40:16.of the community. A bit like the minute silence at the football?
:40:16. > :40:22.have seen how polarised people are in terms of Margaret Thatcher, in
:40:22. > :40:26.terms of her legacy. I think it would be a focal point for that type
:40:26. > :40:34.of protest and highlighting how divisive Margaret Thatcher was seen
:40:34. > :40:39.as. A connection with Portsmouth, with the Falklands, is something
:40:39. > :40:42.that the city should be proud of? reflected upon that and when you
:40:42. > :40:46.reflect on Margaret Thatcher's link with Portsmouth, she was not born in
:40:46. > :40:56.Portsmouth, there was the fleet for the Falklands was prepared in
:40:56. > :41:02.
:41:02. > :41:08.Falklands. I was part of the defence review, just before I took up the
:41:08. > :41:13.work in the dockyard. The reality is that Margaret Thatcher's government
:41:13. > :41:18.was running down Portsmouth dockyard and had the Argentinians invaded the
:41:18. > :41:21.Falklands a year later, who knows what had happened? They would not
:41:21. > :41:24.have been the workers in the dockyard to prepare the fleet. There
:41:24. > :41:30.is a rewriting of history going on in terms of Margaret Thatcher's
:41:30. > :41:33.connection with Portsmouth and what she has done. And so you thought the
:41:33. > :41:42.suggestion from the Conservative candidate would have been part of
:41:42. > :41:48.it. I suppose you think they should be no U-turn is. Has there been a
:41:48. > :41:52.rewriting of history? Look, firstly it has not happened. The Liberal
:41:52. > :41:57.Democrats are not in favour of this will stop let's remember that they
:41:57. > :42:02.have some say on the council. We must remember that she does not have
:42:02. > :42:08.a real link to Portsmouth. Callaghan was born here. Churchill had the key
:42:08. > :42:10.to the city, is that right? There are good reasons why they did that.
:42:10. > :42:14.Clannad Attlee had a street named after him because the Labour
:42:14. > :42:17.government was naming streets after him all over the country. We could
:42:17. > :42:24.not have done much about that. If that came before the council now, we
:42:24. > :42:31.would have been against it. It is not appropriate for here. Grantham,
:42:31. > :42:34.Vinci, sure. Portsmouth, why? do is pick up on the point of
:42:34. > :42:39.rewriting history? I was relatively young when Margaret Thatcher came to
:42:39. > :42:44.power but I remember how disastrous it was in cells of this country at
:42:44. > :42:49.the time. We were referred to as the sick man of Europe. Whatever people
:42:49. > :42:54.say, she restored British competitiveness and our pride. There
:42:54. > :42:59.will be people who have differing views about Margaret Thatcher. They
:43:00. > :43:05.can all agree that she was a trans formation or leader. It is more than
:43:05. > :43:11.that. It is about recognising someone who made a huge con to be
:43:11. > :43:18.seen to Britain. I was at the funeral service in Saint Pauls and
:43:18. > :43:20.it was very moving. You will know that as the Coffin was taken out of
:43:20. > :43:27.the cathedral, there were spontaneous applause was stop there
:43:27. > :43:37.was recognition of the fact that he was someone who was greatly admired.
:43:37. > :43:38.
:43:38. > :43:45.-- here was someone who was greatly admired. EU not think there has been
:43:45. > :43:50.a rewriting of history? Lots of people have been commenting who were
:43:50. > :43:54.not even born during the Margaret Thatcher era. That is unfortunate.
:43:54. > :43:58.But as someone who lived through it, we were in a very bad place as a
:43:58. > :44:01.country. We had to go to the IMF, cap in hand. The Labour Aardman
:44:01. > :44:11.tabloid this country to its knees was that is something that Margaret
:44:11. > :44:12.
:44:12. > :44:17.changed. We should be grateful for that. There were a lot of people who
:44:17. > :44:26.actually very upset by the fact we were spending millions of public
:44:26. > :44:30.money who was hugely divisive. Other prime ministers had not had the same
:44:30. > :44:37.treatment. If you watching her cortege as it made its way through
:44:37. > :44:39.London, people were applauding. You are doing a great disservice to the
:44:39. > :44:45.memory of someone who made a huge contributing to Britain. John
:44:45. > :44:51.Ferrett, just quickly. The Labour Party has not led criticism in this
:44:51. > :44:56.situation. Was that the right idea? We are seeing the polarisation that
:44:56. > :45:00.Margaret Thatcher has caused. Polarisation, discussion? There is
:45:00. > :45:04.interest in politics and history. She got me interested in politics.
:45:04. > :45:09.Without her, I might not been a union wrap and I might not have been
:45:09. > :45:11.a politician. We have seen the polarisation. On the left, over the
:45:11. > :45:14.last two weeks, we have seen Margaret Thatcher blamed for
:45:14. > :45:19.everything that has gone wrong over the last 30 years will stop on the
:45:19. > :45:29.right, we have seen her held up as an omnipotent figure that invented
:45:29. > :45:29.
:45:29. > :45:32.Mr whippy ice cream. I must have missed that one! Let's move on. None
:45:32. > :45:40.of us wants a politician who is a slave to the party machine. I'm sure
:45:40. > :45:44.none of our guests today fit that bill. If they do go alone, will they
:45:44. > :45:54.be able to go it alone? We have been looking at the rise of the
:45:54. > :45:57.
:45:57. > :46:01.independent candidate in next months local elections. Party politics is
:46:01. > :46:06.simple. Someone somewhere has a bright idea was that Labour, Liberal
:46:06. > :46:13.Democrat, Conservative, put it to a vote, Bolger uncle. Imagine if
:46:13. > :46:20.County Hall was full of independent councillors. What would it be like?
:46:20. > :46:28.Would it be a bit like, well, herding ducks? Come on, lads. Over
:46:28. > :46:38.here! Altogether now. May the 2nd is Independence Day here in the south,
:46:38. > :46:39.
:46:39. > :46:47.with scores of independents standing in the local elections. These areas
:46:47. > :46:50.see a good and councillors. In treasure, there will be nine. In
:46:50. > :46:56.Wiltshire, 28 independents have put their names forward. Voters in
:46:56. > :46:59.Dorset will have the chance to elect ten. Leading the way is England's
:46:59. > :47:09.smallest county, the Isle of Wight sees a grand total of 35
:47:09. > :47:14.independents. So what is going on? What we are seeing is the beginning
:47:14. > :47:19.of a revival of independents standing in elections. There are far
:47:19. > :47:24.more of them standing then there were a few decades ago. In a way,
:47:24. > :47:27.what independents do is bring a lot of issues, a lot of concerns, a lot
:47:27. > :47:31.of matters that the parties have been neglecting to the fore and then
:47:31. > :47:35.it is down to the parties to think about responding and taking up
:47:35. > :47:40.positions. Even if an independent doesn't win the election, they can
:47:40. > :47:45.affect what happens in their area to a significant degree by making the
:47:45. > :47:48.parties pay attention to the issues that they are raising. The Isle of
:47:48. > :47:52.Wight by be the smallest county but it has the most independent
:47:52. > :47:58.candidates standing in this election. What do local people make
:47:58. > :48:00.of it all? It can be a good thing. Our hats we are fed up with the same
:48:00. > :48:07.old faces that aren't doing anything. The little chap that
:48:07. > :48:11.called at my home yesterday, he is independent and had several things
:48:11. > :48:16.on his list that I would vote for. So I think I might give him hit my
:48:17. > :48:21.vote, make a change was up it is not what you know but it is who you
:48:21. > :48:27.know. If you go independent, you've had best know a view people. Being
:48:27. > :48:31.the right circles. The more variety you get, the better. But you have to
:48:31. > :48:36.have true independence. They will always have a leaning to the left or
:48:36. > :48:42.a leaning to the right. I find true independence would be difficult to
:48:42. > :48:47.get. Independents to me was important. I did not want to be tied
:48:47. > :48:53.or type of the political brush. Charles Hancock was the independent
:48:53. > :48:56.counsel in East Cowes. I have been in council chambers where other
:48:56. > :49:01.political party members had been frustrated because they were gagged.
:49:01. > :49:09.They are not allowed to speak out against policy and party line.
:49:09. > :49:13.you get anything done is every one is a free spirit? If you put a
:49:13. > :49:21.number of free spirits together, you get a team working for the benefit
:49:21. > :49:27.of the local communities overall. That has got to be better. Come on,
:49:27. > :49:37.lads. If we are going to make a breakthrough, we need to work
:49:37. > :49:37.
:49:37. > :49:41.together. Just listen! It is the future! Follow me! I have been to a
:49:42. > :49:45.few council meetings like that one! Very noticeable, the number of
:49:45. > :49:49.independents but also the number of UKIP candidates, hugely up. We have
:49:49. > :49:53.Diane James, a candidate for UKIP from the Eastleigh by-election
:49:53. > :49:59.joining us. You were an independent and now you have a UKIP group with
:49:59. > :50:03.defections from the Conservative ranks. Does it feel better to be
:50:03. > :50:08.part of a group? Clearly it does but the comment was made in your footage
:50:08. > :50:14.just then that the issue is that has brought the three UKIP people
:50:14. > :50:19.together, myself and the other two Conservatives is this complete
:50:19. > :50:22.borrowers of the party whip. And having been a independent for a long
:50:22. > :50:26.time on Waverley Council and being part of an independent group, I have
:50:26. > :50:36.seen many examples of how that can work against localism, a good local
:50:36. > :50:41.decision-making and so on. It works of the detriment of voters. We are
:50:42. > :50:45.very clear that the whip should not be employed. For the defectors from
:50:45. > :50:49.the Conservative party, that was the attraction to join me. We have to
:50:49. > :50:52.know what you are standing for. In these local elections, UKIP, we know
:50:52. > :50:59.about the EU, we know about immigration. Do people know what
:50:59. > :51:02.they would get from a UKIP councillor? First of all, we have
:51:02. > :51:07.launched a national manifesto. Everyone can look at on the website.
:51:07. > :51:12.Each of the constituencies have been able to take that major manifesto
:51:12. > :51:17.and translate it into one which is applicable for them locally. If you
:51:17. > :51:20.don't mind, I'd like to go back to the EEC experience and just say that
:51:21. > :51:26.the accusation was made that we were just a single issue party out of the
:51:26. > :51:28.EU. What was coming through clearly in Eastleigh was that the vast
:51:28. > :51:32.majority of people could see that the root cause of the problems that
:51:32. > :51:36.they were seeing and experience in on a daily basis was from the EU
:51:36. > :51:43.membership. For them, that translation has been made and that
:51:43. > :51:49.translation has been made across the country. So still EU at the top. It
:51:49. > :51:58.is a fresh start, against tired parties like yours. When you are
:51:58. > :52:00.single issue, it is easy to maintain the whip. When you have a wide set
:52:00. > :52:07.of constituencies across the country, like the liberal Democrats
:52:07. > :52:11.do, you have to balance. All things to all people? You have to listen
:52:11. > :52:20.and then act. Within a family, there might be discussions between the
:52:20. > :52:24.parents but the direction of travel has to be decided. What I will say,
:52:24. > :52:26.I understand what Diane is saying, but you can still be able single
:52:26. > :52:31.issue party and they don't have very many councillors, they are not a
:52:31. > :52:37.party of local government. That might change after these elections!
:52:37. > :52:45.What I would say to anyone who wants efficient services, is vote
:52:45. > :52:49.Conservative. Weiss and they bowed UKIP to keep those things? From a
:52:49. > :52:53.local perspective, they are very much single issue. If you look at
:52:53. > :52:56.what the Conservatives believe in comic David Cameron has clearly said
:52:56. > :53:02.that after the general election, if we win, we will have a referendum on
:53:02. > :53:06.Europe. That is not something that UKIP is going to be able to
:53:06. > :53:12.deliver, not even Nigel Farage is suggesting that UKIP is done to be
:53:12. > :53:19.running the country in 2015. We're talking about local councils.
:53:19. > :53:21.finish the point. Immigration is down by a third. We're getting to
:53:21. > :53:29.sustainable levels of immigration. If they want a referendum in Europe,
:53:29. > :53:33.they want sustainable... It should be about local issues. Why aren't
:53:33. > :53:41.Labour not providing the sort of opposition, particularly on local
:53:41. > :53:47.issues, that people are turning to UKIP for? These are not natural
:53:47. > :53:53.Labour territories, Labour seats. You have them written off?
:53:53. > :53:55.haven't got elections in Portsmouth and Southampton. These are county
:53:55. > :53:59.elections. We are working hard to try and get every Labour voter out
:53:59. > :54:05.we can, just as we did in Eastleigh. We saw that it was a very tough call
:54:05. > :54:09.in Eastleigh to get voters out. On the UKIP point, I listened to Nigel
:54:09. > :54:12.Farage talking about building the UKIP brand. Doesn't want to talk
:54:12. > :54:19.about UKIP policies because they don't have policies except for
:54:19. > :54:21.immigration. It is a fresh start!If you're talking about local elections
:54:21. > :54:25.at a national elections, you are talking about the need to have
:54:25. > :54:29.credible policies. They need to have edible policies locally, in
:54:29. > :54:33.Portsmouth, we are looking at �17 million worth of cuts this year. We
:54:33. > :54:37.have a Lib Dem council. I understand, those cuts have to be
:54:37. > :54:42.made because the cuts we are getting for central government will stop
:54:42. > :54:46.what is UKIP's position on cuts. cannot just say will get money back
:54:46. > :54:49.from Europe, because that might happen. The key issue and we have
:54:49. > :54:53.this is our top priority in our local manifesto, and I didn't raise
:54:53. > :54:59.immigration, by the way, is this issue of the local referendum. If I
:54:59. > :55:02.present of the voters in a given constituency, county council or city
:55:02. > :55:05.council or whatever, were to put their lead to a petition, they can
:55:05. > :55:15.then ask for a review of that particular decision. For instance,
:55:15. > :55:18.
:55:18. > :55:20.if they don't want building on Green out... What if you don't get control
:55:20. > :55:25.of the Council? This could be embarrassing after putting up Sony
:55:25. > :55:31.candidates. I think we will do well. We have 40 defections, if I
:55:31. > :55:35.remember, in place already. If we lose a few of those, fair enough.
:55:35. > :55:40.Our target is more than that but I won't give you an exact number. What
:55:40. > :55:45.I did is more likely is we will have two or three UKIP councillors on
:55:45. > :55:48.probably every single Council across the country. That will give us the
:55:48. > :55:53.balance of control. That is a very important position to be in, having
:55:53. > :56:03.been there before. In they would be independence. I just want a comeback
:56:03. > :56:08.on the point of Labour's expectations will stop in 2009, they
:56:08. > :56:12.were on 31% in the opinion polls. They need to demonstrate they can
:56:12. > :56:16.reach across the country. We have a couple of target set. Let's see how
:56:16. > :56:26.we go. Now a round-up in 62 seconds. This time, it is about
:56:26. > :56:28.
:56:28. > :56:30.bridging the divide. -- 60 seconds. The funeral of Margaret Thatcher
:56:30. > :56:35.dominated the week. Little common ground between those travelling up
:56:35. > :56:39.from the south. I was very moved, been part of the crowd. It was a
:56:39. > :56:44.sombre experience. Margaret Thatcher divided the country, she still does
:56:44. > :56:51.today. In Reading, they are to build bridges, a pedestrian 18 least
:56:51. > :56:56.between two crossings. In Dorset, Paul councils has been defending the
:56:56. > :56:59.closure of the twins sales closing bridge. The old one may have the
:56:59. > :57:04.committees. In Bournemouth, they using an old bridge for a new use.
:57:04. > :57:10.The new extensive sign is controversial. A bridge is one of
:57:10. > :57:16.the few things not stolen from Army bases on Salisbury plain. MP John
:57:16. > :57:21.Glenn slammed a cut in MOD police. Therapists be no military police on
:57:21. > :57:31.Salisbury plain. Meanwhile, South London and Reading universities are
:57:31. > :57:31.
:57:31. > :57:35.spending to Asia to meet the growing demand for education. It seems to be
:57:35. > :57:42.whether money is for university education, eating student in from
:57:42. > :57:46.abroad. Is that a good thing? voice believed that immigration and
:57:46. > :57:50.people coming in at making sure that they are contributing to this
:57:50. > :57:57.economy is very much a good thing. And going to universities it is a
:57:57. > :58:02.start? We charge quite a large amount of these. That does country
:58:02. > :58:07.to the economy and they then get jobs, if they can, here.
:58:07. > :58:11.Unfortunately, current Conservative immigration policy is stopping them
:58:11. > :58:15.from coming. It is a coalition government. Can I come back on a
:58:15. > :58:19.point, education is a world-class sector forums. People want a British
:58:19. > :58:23.education. It is a people coming here, there are no limits on numbers
:58:24. > :58:31.of students, since they satisfy criteria in terms of convocation is
:58:31. > :58:37.in image and so on. We are running at of time. I was in Indonesia and