:00:41. > :00:54.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. It began as
:00:55. > :00:58.Plebgate, now it is Plodgate. The evidence of three police officers to
:00:59. > :01:03.MPs is branded a great work of fiction. They tried to intimidate
:01:04. > :01:08.the Grangemouth bosses, but in the end it was the union that
:01:09. > :01:13.capitulated. I will ask Len McCluskey about Unite union's strong
:01:14. > :01:17.arm tactics at Grangemouth and Falkirk. They preach women should be
:01:18. > :01:19.sidelined and confined to the private sphere. They argued they
:01:20. > :01:29.should be covered up. Putting a credit union in every
:01:30. > :01:38.church. Is inviting the money authority is investigating --
:01:39. > :01:44.investing thousands of pounds in a GPS tracking system to keep tabs on
:01:45. > :01:51.its staff. With me as always, the best and the
:01:52. > :01:54.brightest political panel, Helen Lewis, Janan Ganesh and Nick Watt
:01:55. > :01:58.who will be tweeting their humiliating climb-down is what they
:01:59. > :02:05.got wrong last week in the programme. If this can happen it to
:02:06. > :02:09.a Cabinet minister, what hope is there for anyone else? Thus the Home
:02:10. > :02:13.Affairs Select Committee concluded what many already thought about the
:02:14. > :02:17.treatment of Andrew Mitchell by three self-styled PC plebs. They met
:02:18. > :02:22.him to clear the air over what did or did not happen when he was
:02:23. > :02:26.prevented from ramming his bike through the Downing Street gates.
:02:27. > :02:32.But the officers gave the media and inaccurate account of that meeting.
:02:33. > :02:36.Two of them are even accused of misleading the Commons committee.
:02:37. > :02:40.The Independent Police Complaints Commission will now reopen there
:02:41. > :02:47.enquiry. This is not a story about Andrew Mitchell, it is about the
:02:48. > :02:51.police. Keith Vaz is often in high dudgeon and this is the highest dad
:02:52. > :02:55.and I have seen him in for some time. They could be held for
:02:56. > :03:00.contempt of Parliament and technically they could be sent to
:03:01. > :03:04.prison. It has blown up into an enormous story. I do not know what
:03:05. > :03:09.is worse, the police trying to stitch up a Cabinet member and try
:03:10. > :03:17.to mislead the media or the incompetence they have done it from
:03:18. > :03:21.day one. That is quite good. I would sleep more soundly at night if I
:03:22. > :03:28.knew the pleas were good at this. It is the incompetence that shocks me.
:03:29. > :03:31.And this is just a sideshow. We are still waiting on the main report as
:03:32. > :03:37.to what exactly happened outside Downing Street gates. But that not
:03:38. > :03:41.will be good for the police either. The file has gone from the
:03:42. > :03:46.Metropolitan police to the CPS, so we are limited about what we can
:03:47. > :03:52.say. This is about the police Federation. They were set up under
:03:53. > :03:57.statute in 1990 as a deal in which a police would not go on strike. This
:03:58. > :04:01.is a political campaign to get a Cabinet minister out and the legacy
:04:02. > :04:08.of this is the police Federation will have to be reformed. We will
:04:09. > :04:13.keep an eye on it. They were Ed Miliband's union backers, they swung
:04:14. > :04:18.the Labour leadership for him in 2010. Now the Unite union looks like
:04:19. > :04:22.his biggest headache. The Sunday Times has seen extracts of the
:04:23. > :04:28.report into the alleged vote rigging to select a Labour candidate in
:04:29. > :04:32.Falkirk. There was evidence of coercion and Gregory as well as
:04:33. > :04:38.deliberate attempt to frustrate the enquiry. We will be speaking to Len
:04:39. > :04:44.McCluskey, the Unite union's General Secretary, in a moment. First out
:04:45. > :04:49.the saga began an almost ended up with the loss of 800 jobs at a
:04:50. > :04:53.petrochemical plant in Grangemouth. Unite were key players in the
:04:54. > :04:57.Grangemouth dispute and the union headed by Len McCluskey has come
:04:58. > :05:01.under fire for its intimidator Tariq tactics. In one instance
:05:02. > :05:08.demonstrators complete with an inflatable rat picketed the home of
:05:09. > :05:14.a INEOS director. The police were called. It was part of a strategy
:05:15. > :05:19.the union called leverage. But turning up at people's houses seems
:05:20. > :05:25.to represent an escalation. At the centre of the rout was Steve in
:05:26. > :05:29.deals -- Stephen Denes. INEOS launched an investigation into him
:05:30. > :05:35.as he was suspected of using company time to engineer the selection of
:05:36. > :05:41.labour's candidate in Falkirk. That candidate was Karie Murphy, a friend
:05:42. > :05:47.of Len McCluskey. Stevie Deans resigned last week and denies any
:05:48. > :05:57.wrongdoing, but it capped a dramatic climb-down by Unite union. Len
:05:58. > :06:03.McCluskey joins me now. Thanks to the Sunday Times we now know what is
:06:04. > :06:10.in this labour report on the Falkirk vote rigging. Forgery, coercion
:06:11. > :06:17.trickery, manipulation. You must be ashamed of how Unite union behaved
:06:18. > :06:22.in Falkirk. The Sunday Times article is lazy journalism. There is nothing
:06:23. > :06:27.new in the article. This was all dealt with by the Labour Party in
:06:28. > :06:31.the summer. We rejected those allegations then and we said we had
:06:32. > :06:36.done nothing wrong and both the Labour Party and the police in
:06:37. > :06:42.Scotland indicated there had been no wrongdoing. The report itself says
:06:43. > :06:47.you were trying to thwart the investigation. First you tried to
:06:48. > :06:51.fix the selection of a candidate to get your woman in and then you
:06:52. > :06:56.thwarted the investigation into the dirty deeds. The reality is the
:06:57. > :07:04.Labour Party report was deeply flawed. The Labour Party then
:07:05. > :07:08.instructed a solicitor, a lawyer, to do an in-depth investigation and
:07:09. > :07:12.during that investigation they got to the bottom of what had happened
:07:13. > :07:17.and they decided there was no wrongdoing whatsoever. At the time I
:07:18. > :07:23.was so confident we had done nothing, I called for an independent
:07:24. > :07:27.enquiry. They were forced to conclude there was no wrongdoing
:07:28. > :07:31.because the people who originally complained changed their evidence
:07:32. > :07:37.and we now know they did so because Unite union officials helped them to
:07:38. > :07:43.rewrite their retraction and Stevie Deans approved it. That is not true.
:07:44. > :07:51.We have had 1000 e-mails thrown into the public arena and what is that
:07:52. > :07:58.all about? Who is leaking this? They showed the Unite union was rewriting
:07:59. > :08:02.the retractions. This interview would go a lot better if you are
:08:03. > :08:10.allowed me to finish the question that you asked. These e-mails were
:08:11. > :08:14.put into the public arena by the PR company from INEOS. Why are they
:08:15. > :08:20.doing this? The truth of the matter is that all of the investigations
:08:21. > :08:25.that took place demonstrate there was nothing to answer. This idea
:08:26. > :08:30.that the Unite union has rewritten and the evidence from the families
:08:31. > :08:39.has been withdrawn, the families are a part of Stevie deems' family. They
:08:40. > :08:43.clarified the position. Do you deny that union officials were involved
:08:44. > :08:50.in the retractions? I deny it completely. This is important.
:08:51. > :08:54.Independent solicitors to witness statements from the family and they
:08:55. > :09:02.are the ones that were influencing the Labour Party with the position
:09:03. > :09:10.is clarified and there is no case to answer. Do you deny Stevie deems saw
:09:11. > :09:18.their retractions? It is his family. So you do not deny it? It is his
:09:19. > :09:21.family. This is an ordinary, decent family who were faced with the full
:09:22. > :09:29.weight of the pleas, a forensic solicitor. Of course they spoke to
:09:30. > :09:35.Stevie Deans. This whole thing is a cesspit. Does it not need an
:09:36. > :09:40.independent investigation? This is a trap being laid by Tory Central
:09:41. > :09:47.office. They are making all the demands. The media, the Daily Mail,
:09:48. > :09:50.the Sunday Times, the Conservative mouthpiece, they are laying tracks
:09:51. > :09:59.for Ed Miliband and Ed Miliband should not fall into them. Since
:10:00. > :10:08.when did it become part of an industrial dispute to send mobs to
:10:09. > :10:15.the home of company families. This is a legitimate form of protest and
:10:16. > :10:19.it is a silent protest. We believe if faceless directors are making
:10:20. > :10:26.decisions that cripple communities, they cannot expect to simply drift
:10:27. > :10:35.back to their own leafy suburbia and not be countable. This is silent
:10:36. > :10:39.protest. It is lawful. It may be silent in Grangemouth, but it was
:10:40. > :10:45.not silent elsewhere. You went with a giant rat, loud-hailers telling
:10:46. > :10:53.everybody the neighbour was evil. No, we did not. You had
:10:54. > :11:01.loud-hailers, you even encouraged passing children in Grangemouth to
:11:02. > :11:08.join in. That is nonsense. Look at the rat. The reality is the
:11:09. > :11:13.Grangemouth community was going to be decimated, Grangemouth was going
:11:14. > :11:18.to become a ghost town. I reject totally this idea there were
:11:19. > :11:25.loud-hailers and children involved. That is a lie perpetrated by the
:11:26. > :11:31.Daily Mail. But you have used these tactics in other disputes. We have
:11:32. > :11:36.used the tactics in other disputes, but we have not used loud-hailers at
:11:37. > :11:42.people's homes. Because the labour laws are so restrictive we have to
:11:43. > :11:49.look at every available means that we can protest. It is an outrage, an
:11:50. > :11:52.absolute outrage, that this is happening to British workers in the
:11:53. > :12:00.21st-century. It could not happen elsewhere. Is not intimidation the
:12:01. > :12:04.wider hallmark of your union? You were quoted as saying to do whatever
:12:05. > :12:13.it takes during your attempts to take over the Labour Falkirk
:12:14. > :12:21.constituency. You were instructing to dig out the nasty stuff on your
:12:22. > :12:28.opponents. That is not true. Let's see these e-mails? This is a con
:12:29. > :12:35.trick. Nobody is looking to dig out... This is the words of your
:12:36. > :12:39.legal services advisor. Unite has tried to instigate a revival of
:12:40. > :12:45.trade union values within the Labour Party. That is what Ed Miliband
:12:46. > :12:48.wanted us to do. As soon as we started to be in any way
:12:49. > :12:55.ineffective, there were screams and howls of derision. When the company
:12:56. > :13:00.started to investigate Stevie Deans, your friend, your campaign manager,
:13:01. > :13:06.that he was using company time to moonlight on the job, you called
:13:07. > :13:11.INEOS and said unless you stop the investigation we will bring
:13:12. > :13:18.Grangemouth to a standstill. I never said that at all. You brought it to
:13:19. > :13:25.a standstill. We never brought it to a standstill, the company did. Who
:13:26. > :13:31.says that I said that we would bring it to a standstill? You have read it
:13:32. > :13:37.in the newspapers. You should not believe everything. I did not make
:13:38. > :13:40.that threat to the management. You carried the threat out. You
:13:41. > :13:47.instigated an overtime ban and a work to rule. And that is what
:13:48. > :13:53.Grangemouth to a standstill because the company decided to close the
:13:54. > :13:59.petrochemical site down. Because Stevie Deans was suspended due
:14:00. > :14:06.introduced industrial action? Our members in Grangemouth felt he was
:14:07. > :14:09.being unfairly treated. In the end you're grandstanding almost cost
:14:10. > :14:16.Scotland is most important industrial facility. The day was
:14:17. > :14:20.saved by your total capitulation. Grandstanding, capitulation and
:14:21. > :14:28.humiliation are grand phrases. There is nothing about capitulation. Len
:14:29. > :14:35.McCluskey did not wake up one day and decide to have a dispute with
:14:36. > :14:39.INEOS. The workers in that factory democratically elect their shop
:14:40. > :14:43.stewards to represent them and to express to management their concerns
:14:44. > :14:51.and their views. That is what happened with INEOS. Jack Straw has
:14:52. > :14:56.condemned your union's handling of Grangemouth as a catastrophe. Have
:14:57. > :15:01.you considered your position? Jack Straw and others in the Labour
:15:02. > :15:06.Party, you have to ask them what their agenda is. I am not interested
:15:07. > :15:11.in what he says. The truth of the matter is we responded to the
:15:12. > :15:18.requirements and needs of our members. At a mass meeting last
:15:19. > :15:22.Monday 100% supported their shop stewards and their union. We will
:15:23. > :15:27.continue to stand shoulder to shoulder with our members when they
:15:28. > :15:33.are faced with difficult situations. You have lost all the union rights.
:15:34. > :15:39.You have had to agree to a no strike rule, you have lost pension rights.
:15:40. > :15:45.We have not lost rights at all, we are still working with the company
:15:46. > :15:50.to implement its survival plan. The Prime Minister is always attacking
:15:51. > :15:55.unions and just lately he has taken to praising the automotive
:15:56. > :16:02.industry. Jaguar Land Rover, Foxhall, BMW at Cowley, they are all
:16:03. > :16:05.Unite union members were the shop stewards are engaged positively to
:16:06. > :16:11.implement survival plans and to make a success for the company. That is
:16:12. > :16:15.what we do, but by the same token we stand shoulder to shoulder with our
:16:16. > :16:21.members who are in struggle and we will always do that and we will not
:16:22. > :16:26.be cowed by media attacks on us Is your leadership not proving to be as
:16:27. > :16:39.disastrous for the members as Arthur Scargill was for the NUM? My
:16:40. > :16:43.membership is growing. I am accountable to my members, two are
:16:44. > :16:47.executive, and the one thing they will know is that when they want me
:16:48. > :16:52.standing shoulder to shoulder with them when they have a problem, I
:16:53. > :17:06.will be there, despite the disgraceful attacks launched on us
:17:07. > :17:09.by the media. "A country ready to welcome your
:17:10. > :17:11.investment which values your friendship and will never exclude
:17:12. > :17:14.anyone because of their race, religion, colour or creed." The
:17:15. > :17:17.words of the Prime minister at the World Islamic Economic Forum which
:17:18. > :17:21.was hosted for the first time in London this week. The PM's warm
:17:22. > :17:23.words are sure to be welcomed by British Muslims who have endured a
:17:24. > :17:26.spate of negative headlines. There's been the controversy over the
:17:27. > :17:29.wearing of the veil, attitudes to women, and the radicalisation of
:17:30. > :17:32.some young British Muslims. In a moment I'll be talking to the
:17:33. > :17:42.Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain, Farooq Murad.
:17:43. > :17:46.First - here's Giles Dilnot. The call to Friday prayers at the east
:17:47. > :17:51.London Mosque which has strong links with the Muslim Council of Britain,
:17:52. > :17:56.one of the more vocal groups amongst British Muslims. Despite the fact it
:17:57. > :18:01.frequently happens, it is neither helpful nor accurate to describe the
:18:02. > :18:04.British Muslim community. There are so many different sects,
:18:05. > :18:09.traditions, cultures and nationalities, it is more accurate
:18:10. > :18:13.to describe the British Muslim communities, but there is one
:18:14. > :18:22.question being put to them - are they doing enough internally to
:18:23. > :18:26.address some challenging issues Are they willing to confront
:18:27. > :18:30.radicalisation, attitudes to non-muslins, two women, and cases of
:18:31. > :18:40.sexual exploitation in a meaningful way? A number of them say no, not
:18:41. > :18:46.nearly enough. This former jihad de has spent ten years telling young
:18:47. > :18:50.Muslim teenagers how they can reject extremist radicalisation, using
:18:51. > :18:57.Outward Bound courses and community work, but he and others doing this
:18:58. > :19:05.work thing -- think some elders are failing the youngsters. This has
:19:06. > :19:14.been going on for decades, one figures -- thing is said in public
:19:15. > :19:18.to please people but in private something very different is being
:19:19. > :19:24.said and the messages are being confused. Some of the young people,
:19:25. > :19:32.it pushes them further into a space where they are vulnerable for
:19:33. > :19:37.radical recruiters. For many Muslim youngsters, life is about living 1's
:19:38. > :19:42.faith within an increasingly secular society, a struggle not helped if
:19:43. > :19:50.rigid interpretations of the Koran are being preached, say some
:19:51. > :19:57.sectors. Some practices often don't make sense in 21st-century Britain,
:19:58. > :20:01.and you are perhaps creating obstacles if you stick to those and
:20:02. > :20:07.it is perhaps better to let go of those cultural problems, especially
:20:08. > :20:12.when they need to clear injustices like forced marriage, reticence to
:20:13. > :20:15.talk about grooming for example or discrimination against women. There
:20:16. > :20:22.is a long list but I am very clear that in fact the bad Muslim is the
:20:23. > :20:28.one who sticks to unflinching, narrow dogmatic fundamentalist
:20:29. > :20:39.perception of religion. One issue often focused on is the wearing of
:20:40. > :20:54.minicab. Polling suggests 80% of Britons would favour a ban in public
:20:55. > :21:06.places. -- the niqab. Many people don't seem to recognise the legacy
:21:07. > :21:09.of the niqab. Many people preach that women should be sidelined and
:21:10. > :21:12.that they are sexual objects that should be covered up and the
:21:13. > :21:18.preservation of morality falls on their shoulders. The Muslim Council
:21:19. > :21:22.of Britain recently got praise for holding a conference on combating
:21:23. > :21:28.sexual exploitation. In the wake of abuse cases that had involved
:21:29. > :21:35.predominantly Pakistani men. For one man who has followed the story for
:21:36. > :21:41.some years, the Muslim Council of Britain needs to do much more. We
:21:42. > :21:48.need to get along together and if things like attitudes towards the
:21:49. > :21:52.normal slim girl in stark contrast to the expression of honour and
:21:53. > :21:59.chastity of the Muslim girl, your sister or daughter, are such that
:22:00. > :22:05.actions that would be an fought off with a slim girl becomes permissible
:22:06. > :22:11.with a white girl, then we are all in trouble. To some, attitudes to
:22:12. > :22:15.women are not limited to sexual interactions at the very structures
:22:16. > :22:19.of life in Muslim communities and indeed the Muslim Council of Britain
:22:20. > :22:29.itself. I would like to ask the Muslim Council of Britain what they
:22:30. > :22:37.are doing about the fact that very few mosques give voices to
:22:38. > :22:37.are doing about the fact that very the fact that someone women are
:22:38. > :22:41.experiencing female genital mutilation and forced marriages
:22:42. > :22:45.what about the women who are getting married and their marriages are not
:22:46. > :22:50.being registered and they are being left homeless and denied maintenance
:22:51. > :22:53.rights, what about the fact there are sharia rights that have been
:22:54. > :22:57.found to be discriminating against women, and the fact there are men in
:22:58. > :23:04.this country who continue to hold misogynistic views about women, what
:23:05. > :23:10.are you doing? The occasional press release will not solve this problem
:23:11. > :23:14.of a deeply patriarchal community. That all of these issues can be
:23:15. > :23:19.exploited to the point of Islam phobia is not doubted, but many
:23:20. > :23:24.Muslims feel that unless the communities do tackle this openly, a
:23:25. > :23:31.big cultural gap will exist between the two.
:23:32. > :23:34.And the Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain, Farooq
:23:35. > :23:43.Murad, joins me now. One visible sign that sets muslins aside is the
:23:44. > :23:50.veils that cover women's faces. Do you think it makes them impossible
:23:51. > :23:58.to be part of mainstream society? The niqab is not an obligatory
:23:59. > :24:00.requirement. But do you accept that those who wear it are cutting
:24:01. > :24:14.themselves off from mainstream society? Some people do, and whilst
:24:15. > :24:17.wearing niqab, some of them are working in various walks of life
:24:18. > :24:21.successfully and it is seen as a faith requirement, but it is a red
:24:22. > :24:28.herring in the sense that it applies to such a small number of Muslim
:24:29. > :24:38.girls. For many Muslim preachers, isn't separation precisely the point
:24:39. > :24:42.of the niqab? Certainly not, if you look at the Muslim women in the
:24:43. > :24:51.public sphere, we have many very successful women. But not the ones
:24:52. > :24:58.who are veiled. Not in the public arena as such, but the veil is a
:24:59. > :25:05.practice which is practised by a very small number. Do you favour
:25:06. > :25:10.it? I personally think it is not a requirement. But do you think women
:25:11. > :25:15.should wear the veil? I think it is wrong to force women to wear the
:25:16. > :25:21.veil. I asked if in your opinion women should wear the veil? It is
:25:22. > :25:27.important not to force women to wear the veil. Should they of their free
:25:28. > :25:31.choice where the veil? A lot of individuals do things out of their
:25:32. > :25:36.free choice which I do not approve of, I don't think it is conducive it
:25:37. > :25:42.helps their cause, but I do not have the right to take their choice away
:25:43. > :25:47.from them. I am still unsure if you think it is a good thing or a bad
:25:48. > :25:51.thing. Are not many Muslim women in this country being forced by Muslim
:25:52. > :25:57.preachers and often their male relations who want to keep Muslim
:25:58. > :26:03.women their place? As I said, it is wrong for anyone to force Muslim
:26:04. > :26:10.women. But how would we ever know in a family if a woman was being
:26:11. > :26:16.forced? Exactly, we don't know what is going on in people 's homes and
:26:17. > :26:21.what pressure is being applied. I want you to look at this picture,
:26:22. > :26:26.very popular on Islamic websites, and it shows the women who is
:26:27. > :26:32.wearing the niqab having a straight route to heaven, and the other
:26:33. > :26:36.Muslim woman dressed in western gear condemned to hell. Do you consider
:26:37. > :26:46.that a proper message for Muslim women? Not at all, I don't. So any
:26:47. > :26:50.Islamic websites in Britain... The Muslim Council of Britain is an
:26:51. > :26:55.organisation of five affiliates from across the country and this is not
:26:56. > :27:02.coming from any of them. As I said, those minority views propagated by
:27:03. > :27:06.individuals should not be used to represent Muslim community. So that
:27:07. > :27:11.would not have the support of the Muslim Council of Britain? It would
:27:12. > :27:23.not have the support. What about the Muslim free school that requires
:27:24. > :27:31.children as young as 11 to wear a black veil outside of school? Do you
:27:32. > :27:40.agree with that? I am not sure exactly what the policy is... I have
:27:41. > :27:48.just told you, do you agree that girls as young as 11 should wear a
:27:49. > :27:55.black burka outside of school? I don't think it should be imposed on
:27:56. > :28:06.anybody. But this is the desired dress School of the Muslim females.
:28:07. > :28:12.I am asking for your view. I said it at the beginning that I do not think
:28:13. > :28:18.it should be imposed. Would you send your daughter to a school that would
:28:19. > :28:29.wear a black burka at the age of 11? Would you? No. It seems that some
:28:30. > :28:36.muslins are determined to segregate young Muslim girls right from the
:28:37. > :28:40.start to very early from society. It is not their segregation as such, I
:28:41. > :28:49.would say that there are faith schools, if you look at an Islamic
:28:50. > :28:54.girls school in Blackburn in a traditional setting, it has come the
:28:55. > :29:02.top of the league table this year in the secondary school league tables.
:29:03. > :29:06.But it doesn't make 11-year-olds wear black burkas. Many of those
:29:07. > :29:14.girls go on to have a successful career. Not wearing black burkas. I
:29:15. > :29:20.am sure there are examples of women who do have successful careers.
:29:21. > :29:32.There is a very conservative movement from the continent on
:29:33. > :29:37.Islam, and the issue supposedly based on Islamic law on their
:29:38. > :29:44.website. Here is one of their recent judgements. The female is encouraged
:29:45. > :29:48.to remain within the confines of her home as much as possible, she should
:29:49. > :29:53.not come out of the home without need and necessity. What do you
:29:54. > :29:58.think of that? We need to say the whole context of that quote. They
:29:59. > :30:08.are saying they should stay at home as much as possible, do you agree
:30:09. > :30:16.with that? I see many Muslim women who are walking about... But this is
:30:17. > :30:20.what the mosque is recommending women should do. The practice is
:30:21. > :30:43.quite the contrary. Let me show you another one. Another Fatwa. Do you
:30:44. > :30:47.agree with that? These have been picked out from material dating back
:30:48. > :30:52.to different cultural settings and in practice they are not applied.
:30:53. > :31:00.This is advice being given as we speak. This is not being practised.
:31:01. > :31:07.Do you agree with it? No, not at all. These are from the DL Monday
:31:08. > :31:19.mosques, how come 72 of these mosques are affiliated to your
:31:20. > :31:29.counsel? There may be publications from one of their scholars, but they
:31:30. > :31:34.have been written in countries abroad and translated. This is
:31:35. > :31:39.advice being given to young women now. They are affiliated to the
:31:40. > :31:46.Muslim Council of Britain. Do you ever speak to them about that? The
:31:47. > :31:53.Muslim Council is a very broad organisation. We are working on lots
:31:54. > :32:00.of common issues to create a community which positively
:32:01. > :32:08.integrates. Did you ever speak to them to say this is not appropriate
:32:09. > :32:11.for British Muslims? There may be certain ad buys and publications
:32:12. > :32:19.available, but people make their choices. So it is OK for your
:32:20. > :32:29.organisation to issue things like that? Many of these things will fall
:32:30. > :32:39.under scrutiny and we need to create that. Why do only 26% of British
:32:40. > :32:45.mosques have facilities for women? If you go back to the requirement of
:32:46. > :32:51.prayer, it was not obligatory for women to come to the masks to
:32:52. > :32:57.prayer. When a poorer community began putting up mosques at the very
:32:58. > :33:05.beginning in terraced houses... Did you have a policy to encourage them?
:33:06. > :33:15.Is it on your website? It is in our practices that 20% of the council
:33:16. > :33:20.have to be female. Coming out of this movement there is a conscious
:33:21. > :33:27.stream of superiority between Muslims and non-Muslims. Look at
:33:28. > :33:44.this quote. He is a well-known picture in this country.
:33:45. > :33:56.That is what he wants to stop. I disagree with that. We believe we
:33:57. > :34:01.live in this society and Muslims in any society of the world, and they
:34:02. > :34:07.have historically lived as minorities in many countries... You
:34:08. > :34:14.would this associate yourself from that? Why do you allow people like
:34:15. > :34:21.that to be affiliated to you? The requirement is for any organisation
:34:22. > :34:25.to be affiliated is that they are bound by the Charity commission's
:34:26. > :34:32.rules and regulations. We only accept those who are under the law
:34:33. > :34:41.of this country. This is a matter of taste. Let me move on to a bigger
:34:42. > :34:48.issue. In 2009 you signed the Istanbul dash-mac the Istanbul
:34:49. > :34:59.declaration was signed. Do you still support it? No, we never signed it
:35:00. > :35:08.or supported it. One of your leading lights signed it. In the media
:35:09. > :35:14.mainstream he defended his position. You have this associated yourself
:35:15. > :35:22.from it? What is wrong with that? I am not sure about the declaration
:35:23. > :35:31.because we disassociated ourselves. Before reading it? We did not sign
:35:32. > :35:37.it. You have not read it? I do not know all the aspects of the
:35:38. > :35:47.declaration, but at the time in the national newspapers and media there
:35:48. > :35:49.was a discussion and a debate and it was highlighted that that was not
:35:50. > :35:56.was a discussion and a debate and it what was meant by the declaration.
:35:57. > :36:03.When did you decide so is the yourself from the declaration? From
:36:04. > :36:09.day one. We never signed it. The East London Mosque which you are
:36:10. > :36:15.personally closely associated with is the venue for a number of
:36:16. > :36:26.extremist speakers, who espoused extremist positions. In 2009 the
:36:27. > :36:30.mosque posted a video and presentation by somebody described
:36:31. > :36:34.by the UN Security Council as an Al-Qaeda leader supporter. Another
:36:35. > :36:40.speaker described Christians and Jews as Phil. You have had a jihad
:36:41. > :36:44.is supporter of the Taliban there. Why do you do nothing to stop
:36:45. > :36:52.extremists like that at this mask with which you are associated with?
:36:53. > :36:59.We do not have anything to do with any rhetoric that condones or
:37:00. > :37:03.supported violence. We issue guidelines and the mosque itself is
:37:04. > :37:08.a registered charity which has its own rules and regulations, but it is
:37:09. > :37:14.a very large mosques and lots of organisations book and come and told
:37:15. > :37:19.their gatherings. We rent out the facilities. You were prepared to
:37:20. > :37:29.speak alongside a man who saluted suicide bombers, and said 9/11 was a
:37:30. > :37:36.Zionist conspiracy. Why would you share a platform like that? I did
:37:37. > :37:42.not share a platform like that. Different organisations come and
:37:43. > :37:52.have conferences here. Why did you agree? I did not agree with that. I
:37:53. > :37:58.completely reject that. When you add all this up the attitude to women,
:37:59. > :38:03.the alliance with the most fundamentalist Islamic mosques, the
:38:04. > :38:08.toleration of intolerant views, a willingness for you to be counted
:38:09. > :38:14.among them, why should anybody of goodwill, either a Muslim or a
:38:15. > :38:21.non-Muslim, regard the MCB as a good force? It is an organisation which
:38:22. > :38:29.embraces different organisations which are affiliated in the Muslim
:38:30. > :38:34.community. You have taken snippets of certain individual views which
:38:35. > :38:38.are not the views of our affiliates. It would be unfair to represent our
:38:39. > :38:45.view based on those which you have highlighted in this programme. The
:38:46. > :38:50.work that we do is quite clear and is on our website. They are all
:38:51. > :38:55.associated with you, but we will have to leave it there. You are
:38:56. > :39:11.watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up: I will be talking to joke
:39:12. > :39:19.Welcome to Sunday politics so. On today's show, mixing God and Mammon.
:39:20. > :39:23.We will be talking to the clergyman who wants to get moneylenders back
:39:24. > :39:28.into church, with a credit union in every parish. First, let's meet the
:39:29. > :39:33.politicians who will be with me for the next 20 minutes. A netbook is
:39:34. > :39:40.the Liberal Democrat MP for Dorset and Liverpool, and Caroline is the
:39:41. > :39:49.MP for Romsey and Southampton zero. Carolyn, you had a good debate in
:39:50. > :39:54.Parliament this week. When you read something in Parliament like this,
:39:55. > :39:58.it gets a big response, doesn't it? It does, and I was reading it on
:39:59. > :40:05.behalf of one constituent who brought it to my attention some
:40:06. > :40:08.months ago. I have had e`mails from people around the country who have
:40:09. > :40:14.sent me e`mails on similar circumstances. You asked the
:40:15. > :40:20.Minister for next nation and it was a can of worms. The law is not clear
:40:21. > :40:24.on giving the wrong body away. The law is unclear and I asked the
:40:25. > :40:30.Minister to clarify. He asked me to bring to his attention any further
:40:31. > :40:34.cases I was aware of. Is a publicity when you have a debate like that, or
:40:35. > :40:39.the fact that the Minister must address themselves and civil
:40:40. > :40:42.servants must find the answer is it is very useful, I had a debate at
:40:43. > :40:49.the beginning of the term on school starting things. Some children are
:40:50. > :40:53.starting literally the day after the fourth birthday and it is very
:40:54. > :40:58.difficult to get the place to third and also premature babies starting
:40:59. > :41:01.just on four is an enormous step for them and they have not newly
:41:02. > :41:06.developed sufficiently. There is new guidance available in the Minister
:41:07. > :41:11.was able to tell others about that but the challenge now is to get it
:41:12. > :41:14.implemented. When you get started down the throat it is good fun to
:41:15. > :41:20.keep that going. Now the Royal Charter on regulating press received
:41:21. > :41:24.the green seal this weekend. This was the politicians version, not the
:41:25. > :41:28.one reduced by the industry. Most unanimously, the press is not happy
:41:29. > :41:33.about politicians meddling as they see it in their business. Joining me
:41:34. > :41:37.now is Ian Murray, the vice president of the Society of editors.
:41:38. > :41:42.You are pointing out the fact that local newspapers will be caught in
:41:43. > :41:45.the same net that has been thrown over the tabloids. You think you
:41:46. > :41:52.should be treated differently? No, the regional press have pointed
:41:53. > :41:55.out that it is tougher on us because of the financial constraints that
:41:56. > :42:00.will comment, some of the penalties, actually mean more to us. We do not
:42:01. > :42:06.have the finances behind is that individual papers do. The company is
:42:07. > :42:09.that owners are quite large but for individual papers to survive
:42:10. > :42:13.?100,000 plus legal fees that could come out of these kinds of things,
:42:14. > :42:16.there has been some acknowledgement about this from the government to
:42:17. > :42:21.have said that we will make it so that we will put charges on to
:42:22. > :42:26.anyone who wishes to go to an appeal over this, to go to adjudication
:42:27. > :42:29.over this. Actually, I don't agree with that. I think putting the
:42:30. > :42:35.charge there which we depress actually said in our charter and the
:42:36. > :42:38.independent present standards organisation that we have put
:42:39. > :42:43.forward, we have said we do not want any charges. Do not put any barriers
:42:44. > :42:46.in the way of genuine keys is coming forward to believe they have a
:42:47. > :42:54.complaint against the press. But that one issue is a practical issue.
:42:55. > :42:57.What I consider to be quite insulting is that it seems the
:42:58. > :43:02.politicians have thought that they can buy off the regional press by
:43:03. > :43:05.addressing their financial worries. They are not interested in the
:43:06. > :43:11.bigger picture as the big boys are, the national press. We are. We are
:43:12. > :43:14.just as concerned but the press in this country and having a free press
:43:15. > :43:19.is just as important for the people of Southampton. And argue just as
:43:20. > :43:25.keen to put mistakes right? There are mistakes in regional press as in
:43:26. > :43:29.a national press. We are and what you must point out, some politicians
:43:30. > :43:32.have basically said, we must sort out something so that anyone who is
:43:33. > :43:38.a victim of the press and have a form of redress. The PC `` the PCC
:43:39. > :43:43.was not up to it. The industry has not seen, there was nothing wrong so
:43:44. > :43:46.let's not continue as we are. We have listened to what Lord Justice
:43:47. > :43:50.Levenson said and we have agreed that we must come up with a beefed
:43:51. > :43:57.up regular Tory authority that does have an open itself to the public ``
:43:58. > :44:00.regular Tory authority. That is what this actually does what it has been
:44:01. > :44:06.brushed to one side. It has gone through the democratic process to
:44:07. > :44:12.some extent. Saints no, it was all cobbled together late one night any
:44:13. > :44:19.room, with the leader of the opposition with pizzas and hacked
:44:20. > :44:24.off. The press were not there. But an organisation that was anti`free
:44:25. > :44:29.speech was. When Max will you will continue with this? Will you
:44:30. > :44:37.continue to fight? The public will see, you must continue with what the
:44:38. > :44:40.politicians have lined up. Why should we agree with politicians? We
:44:41. > :44:49.read the first nation in the world, 300 years ago, to actually say, free
:44:50. > :44:53.speech. To win that hard`fought idea and defend it through the centuries.
:44:54. > :44:59.During that time there have been some atrocious times of the press,
:45:00. > :45:01.in Queen Victoria's time, the London press were printing stories that
:45:02. > :45:12.Prince Albert had been arrested at a German spy and was being held in the
:45:13. > :45:20.tower, and Moscato for that. So it was for ages ago, but we should do
:45:21. > :45:24.something. A free press, whether it is here or at my daily newspaper in
:45:25. > :45:28.Southampton or the Herald in Glasgow or the Daily Mail and The Guardian,
:45:29. > :45:31.a free press as anyone who lives in a society where they do not have a
:45:32. > :45:36.free press will tell you is the jewel in the Crown. It may be a
:45:37. > :45:39.diamond in the rough, it might be when you polish it up you can still
:45:40. > :45:44.see some flaws, but it is pretty precious and you should not throw it
:45:45. > :45:48.away. You are throwing away something so precious, you
:45:49. > :45:53.politicians, by imposing this on the local and national press. Everyone
:45:54. > :45:58.has been concerned with the local press, we do appreciate the fact
:45:59. > :46:03.that all of this has arisen by the misdeeds of the national press in
:46:04. > :46:06.one way or another. I am sorry that actually a compromise in terms of
:46:07. > :46:13.the financial situation and arbitration and the fact that local
:46:14. > :46:19.newspapers who might face financial hardship... He says it is not about
:46:20. > :46:23.that. I am accepting that but it is a pity to dismiss economise. I
:46:24. > :46:28.believe in freedom of the press but I do not think it is unreasonable to
:46:29. > :46:35.have a totally independent press complaints rebuilt Tory commission.
:46:36. > :46:39.It is not totally independent. The compromise, the opt out that is
:46:40. > :46:45.built and there, actually if you read the small print it is not
:46:46. > :46:51.guaranteed. The new regulator will look at it later on and sometimes
:46:52. > :46:57.you make sets, etc the thing guaranteed at all. `` you make
:46:58. > :47:01.except, etc. It is almost a mockery. But if it turns out to be too much
:47:02. > :47:05.of a hardship for the local press, you can opt out of it completely and
:47:06. > :47:09.Galway. There was everyone an attempt to say, let's deal with the
:47:10. > :47:13.national press differently from the regional press. Politicians are
:47:14. > :47:18.going for the throats of the national press. Carolyn, have you
:47:19. > :47:23.called the wrong people into this? Why are you so insisted that it must
:47:24. > :47:27.be independent and then leave MPs in charge? Is a good and valid point
:47:28. > :47:32.about the regional press who by and large behave brilliantly well. We
:47:33. > :47:37.are very lucky to have the daily Echo and I enjoyed the description
:47:38. > :47:42.of Ian Day as a diamond in the rough. There is a problem. I had a
:47:43. > :47:46.significant mailbag from constituents who are asking for a
:47:47. > :47:50.live is to be limited info. I am sure and it was the same. There is a
:47:51. > :47:54.significant number of the public who looked at the excesses and wanted
:47:55. > :48:00.something that would be `` wanted something that would be effective.
:48:01. > :48:05.It is very easy to argue that laws were broken their and it is
:48:06. > :48:11.criminal. Of course, because we have a court case going on. Why resist
:48:12. > :48:19.having a regulator who can direct apologies and remedies?
:48:20. > :48:24.We're not. You must put this right. The independent press standards
:48:25. > :48:28.organisation would come forward the regulator and directly with those
:48:29. > :48:32.people who see that they want to live permitted, but Levenson said he
:48:33. > :48:35.called on the press to set up its own self`regulatory body that would
:48:36. > :48:40.then be totally free of interference from the press, interviews from
:48:41. > :48:44.politicians, and what we would argue and see is that the one we set up in
:48:45. > :48:48.the one we are going forward with is free of war. There are no serving
:48:49. > :48:53.editors on regulatory body. Lets see how it all develops.
:48:54. > :48:55.You might remember over the summer the Archbishop of Canterbury
:48:56. > :49:00.announcing that he was going to wage war on payday lenders, taking them
:49:01. > :49:07.on at their own game by getting the church to offer short`term loans.
:49:08. > :49:10.There was a hack up when it turns out the church itself invested in
:49:11. > :49:23.one of the biggest lenders but it is still the plan. The genesis of this
:49:24. > :49:26.was close to home in our region. The spirit of the Lord is upon me
:49:27. > :49:30.because he has anointed me to bring good news to the pure.
:49:31. > :49:36.As a man of God, teaching the Word of God is at the's. . We must let
:49:37. > :49:44.the press coffee. As an ex`accountant, spreading the message
:49:45. > :49:49.of saving has also become a passion. Get hold the vast number of people
:49:50. > :49:55.captive. It is oppressing people and that is why we need to change
:49:56. > :49:57.culture. Anthony's vision was partly behind the Archbishop of
:49:58. > :50:06.Canterbury's decision to wage war on payday lenders. We are endeavouring
:50:07. > :50:08.to help the movement to expand and preach at potential so people will
:50:09. > :50:12.use an ethical financial provider which will be better for them
:50:13. > :50:18.because the rates of interest are not high and also they can save for
:50:19. > :50:23.a rainy day. What I am doing is central to the questions of the
:50:24. > :50:29.gospel, setting captors free and fully seen people from debt. Geysers
:50:30. > :50:34.is known for kicking out moneylenders and merchants from the
:50:35. > :50:37.temples, but the Bible doesn't say that no one should charge interest
:50:38. > :50:45.on loans to one another. `` Jesus Navas known. The churches than happy
:50:46. > :50:49.to let moneylenders back in the front door. I think turkeys to do
:50:50. > :50:58.with religion, not finance. It can be dangerous. There is a danger it
:50:59. > :51:04.could go wrong. We should give money, and not expect that it of my
:51:05. > :51:08.back plus the cost of what is to do it. The plan is to open credit
:51:09. > :51:13.unions in every community with a church. One has been set up here,
:51:14. > :51:18.and it is manned twice per week in volunteers from the Dorset credit
:51:19. > :51:21.union. When you get the charge involved, churches in the local
:51:22. > :51:26.area, they know the local people and it is accessible to people in the
:51:27. > :51:31.local community. Everyone can trust the church, hopefully. Alex and her
:51:32. > :51:35.partner went to the Dorset credit union when they needed money to pay
:51:36. > :51:40.for nursery fees. Everyone has stresses and strains but to have
:51:41. > :51:45.someone I can go to for help when I need the extra help is a great
:51:46. > :51:50.relief. There will not be people knocking on my door, demanding money
:51:51. > :51:56.or my object my home if I have missed a payment or something. Indy
:51:57. > :52:01.says, more than 1000 people turned to one charity last year for help.
:52:02. > :52:06.They were all desperate for advice on how to pay back small loans that
:52:07. > :52:13.have become too big to manage. It is a problem the Vicar of Littlemore
:52:14. > :52:16.sees almost everyday. This is a lovely area with a high population
:52:17. > :52:22.of young families and the people who work here amongst the most 5%
:52:23. > :52:25.earners in the country. If it is a five`week month, week five then it
:52:26. > :52:28.is a real struggle. Not because they are bad at managing their money but
:52:29. > :52:35.literally because it is not enough to stretch, particularly in a
:52:36. > :52:38.five`week month. Maybe not surprisingly she says the real value
:52:39. > :52:43.to having a credit union in her charge. It is a blessing, it is a
:52:44. > :52:50.way that people can borrow money without having to pay back lots of
:52:51. > :52:52.interest. You have support and advice as well, it is very
:52:53. > :52:57.beneficial and helps people perceived. The ultimate aim is for
:52:58. > :53:02.the church one day to have a credit union of its own. But there is still
:53:03. > :53:08.a question over whether it should be in the money lending is this at all.
:53:09. > :53:13.Lending money responsibly, helping people to lead better lives, is a
:53:14. > :53:18.good thing to do. The credit union is a mutual society, so what profit
:53:19. > :53:24.armies are returned by way of dividend. It is society that
:53:25. > :53:31.benefits. `` what profits are made. Caroline, should the church be
:53:32. > :53:33.putting out the, setting out to an end to the organisation that does
:53:34. > :53:40.not like you were of by undercutting? I am aware that he
:53:41. > :53:44.credit union has been operating out of a church for many years now and
:53:45. > :53:46.it has worked well and as your BT said it has provided a fantastic
:53:47. > :53:53.service to people when they need it most without charging. What happens
:53:54. > :53:58.if the judge decides it's does not like dodgy car dealers. We will sell
:53:59. > :54:02.things cheaper. Shouldn't they stick to doing what they do best? You'll
:54:03. > :54:06.match what the church does best is looks after local communities and
:54:07. > :54:12.this is a brilliant example of how the Church recognises a need and
:54:13. > :54:16.steps into it. Anette, are you concerned? I am a big fan of credit
:54:17. > :54:20.unions and I think it is very good that the drug is working with credit
:54:21. > :54:24.unions. I thought it was great when the Bishop deposited large sums of
:54:25. > :54:28.money into credit unions because that helps. But this is the church
:54:29. > :54:33.actually going out into the community and supporting. For me
:54:34. > :54:37.that is really important. It is undercutting, OK they charge a lot
:54:38. > :54:42.of interest, but they are the experts. Particularly people who are
:54:43. > :54:46.very profound need a small bit of money, a credit union can
:54:47. > :54:51.necessarily do that. The important thing is to undercut the 5000% of
:54:52. > :54:56.Wonga and the like. So there is no place for that organisation? When we
:54:57. > :55:00.are talking about thousands of percent of interest lending loan
:55:01. > :55:05.after loan to vulnerable people who cannot possibly afford to repay,
:55:06. > :55:07.yes. I have a constituent who has a son with learning difficulties and
:55:08. > :55:15.he signed up watching the adverts on the television and the parents had
:55:16. > :55:18.to sort this out. That is appalling. Yet more clashes that prime
:55:19. > :55:21.ministers questions of energy prices. The government insists the
:55:22. > :55:25.best thing consumers can do switch suppliers. But as an individual,
:55:26. > :55:30.hardly going to get the best deal going? Across the country groups of
:55:31. > :55:34.consumers are getting together to organise communal switching
:55:35. > :55:37.suppliers. The idea is that hundreds or even thousands of students
:55:38. > :55:43.together we can negotiate a better deal. The Cabinet never for the
:55:44. > :55:47.environment has been talking to a county council launching the scheme.
:55:48. > :55:53.Getting everyone together just get the better price? It is essentially
:55:54. > :55:56.about bulk buying. The more you buy the better the price you get. What
:55:57. > :56:02.we have been doing in Hampshire is seeing the energy companies, we have
:56:03. > :56:06.all of these, thousands of people, this is how many megawatts of energy
:56:07. > :56:10.and gas and electric we watched device will give us your best price.
:56:11. > :56:16.You're introducing another middleman. No, because if it is a
:56:17. > :56:19.middleman the middleman is not getting a penny out of it. We are
:56:20. > :56:26.getting people together to see we need all this energy. Why shouldn't
:56:27. > :56:31.they just be forced to do this? Or maybe the places frozen? Instead of
:56:32. > :56:36.you having to organise this sort of scheme. The real world is that the
:56:37. > :56:41.more Dubai have something the better the place you can generally
:56:42. > :56:44.negotiate. It is all about buying power and what we want to do as a
:56:45. > :56:51.county council is to enable people absolutely without any compunction,
:56:52. > :56:55.we can say to them if you want and are interested, this is the best
:56:56. > :56:58.place. We have taken it to an auction in this company has come in.
:56:59. > :57:04.This is what you can get, this is what you can say. Is this David
:57:05. > :57:09.Cameron spec society? The market has been completely taken over, we have
:57:10. > :57:16.county council is sorting out elders of the prices, the church doing with
:57:17. > :57:22.Wonga, it seems odd. I congratulate shone, that is maize cross`party
:57:23. > :57:27.work. It is necessary to do something because the big six Arbor
:57:28. > :57:32.meeting the market. It is very good news. So change the market! That is
:57:33. > :57:38.what Ed Davey is doing, we have independent suppliers with thousands
:57:39. > :57:42.of customers and they are welcoming switching of community buying.
:57:43. > :57:45.Excellent news. We need more competition but whilst it is in you
:57:46. > :57:48.must give more power to buyers to match the power of the seller. The
:57:49. > :57:54.Liberal Democrats got there before you, you can switch and we want
:57:55. > :57:58.major scheme. You can switch in one day but not necessarily to place you
:57:59. > :58:02.can get by buying lots of energy rather than just one of the people
:58:03. > :58:07.switching their energy prices. You're seeing this is a better deal?
:58:08. > :58:11.Yes, the vast majority of people never switch. They don't switch back
:58:12. > :58:17.into mortgages. Helping them do that. Caroline, the price freeze
:58:18. > :58:23.suggestion that the fellow band`mate, docking about reforming
:58:24. > :58:28.of gin and threatening the big six. `` that Ed Miliband made. You can
:58:29. > :58:35.have a supply a generator and a seller, isn't that more radical to
:58:36. > :58:40.what we will need? What we had from the analysis of Mr Miliband ideas is
:58:41. > :58:45.that it will not work. We have had each new entrants to the energy
:58:46. > :58:48.market since 2010, that must be good news because the more people look at
:58:49. > :58:53.the alternatives, it will be better and they can put pressure on the big
:58:54. > :58:56.six. The government is ensuring there is more transparency and what
:58:57. > :59:01.I want to see is not just you being able to compare whether you are on
:59:02. > :59:05.the best talent from your supplier, but much as you do with the big
:59:06. > :59:09.supermarkets, you should be able to see across suppliers. Just to ensure
:59:10. > :59:14.the market works better than it does at the moment. Know our regular
:59:15. > :59:25.round`up of the political week in the south in 60 seconds.
:59:26. > :59:31.Trains planes and automobiles in the news this week. The vote on a chest
:59:32. > :59:35.to solve Labour MPs back on track but many questions remain over costs
:59:36. > :59:40.and timetables. Building aircraft wings just got
:59:41. > :59:45.easier thanks to a Dorset company. The biggest composite machine ever
:59:46. > :59:49.built by EIC in cruel is being sent to Shanghai and ten bodies.
:59:50. > :59:54.The prime minister did automobiles on a visit to Oxford's many plans
:59:55. > :59:58.getting the economic recovery underway.
:59:59. > :00:03.Tell that to university staff, who held a one`day strike on Thursday
:00:04. > :00:06.saying that wages are keeping `` are not keeping pace with living costs.
:00:07. > :00:13.Effectively and members are taking a cut. Around 30% when you count
:00:14. > :00:17.inflation and everything else. Cash problems of a different game, was
:00:18. > :00:21.Jean Austin's portrait airbrushed on the banknote?
:00:22. > :00:23.And a licence to print money according to applications for solar
:00:24. > :00:33.farms in Oxfordshire, which have trebled in one year.
:00:34. > :00:40.I must ask you to ladies with Jane Austen. Brushed? Is this tokenism?
:00:41. > :00:46.Her being presented in such a way? I am part of the all`party group that
:00:47. > :00:49.is against airbrushing. It is actually on body image but we have a
:00:50. > :00:54.`` we have a firm line on airbrushing. I would like to see
:00:55. > :00:57.Jane Austen looking as she actually did rather than a sanitised version.
:00:58. > :01:02.Sadly this is the reality of the 21st`century. You don't think Darwin
:01:03. > :01:07.would have been airbrushed in quite the same way? There are pressures on
:01:08. > :01:10.men and women nowadays to have their photographs retouched and ensure
:01:11. > :01:15.they are looking as immaculate as they possibly can, with and it be
:01:16. > :01:20.better if we all would more natural? A good role model, Jane Austen.
:01:21. > :01:27.Fantastic, I'm a great Jane Austen fan so I'm delighted to have a
:01:28. > :01:32.funeral on the banknote. Very good. It is all about that sort of thing.
:01:33. > :01:36.Absolutely and you know it has been a good thing for Hampshire. We have
:01:37. > :01:39.Jane Austen on the banknote and Florence unseating Gill on the
:01:40. > :01:43.national curriculum. It back that is decent politics in the South, thanks
:01:44. > :01:47.to my guests, and it broke the Liberal Democrat MP for Dorset and
:01:48. > :01:53.Caroline no from Romsey and Southampton. But forgets to keep
:01:54. > :01:58.up`to`date with Southern politics by reading my blog. That is the address
:01:59. > :02:00.of the bottom. For now, from us. Back to Andrew.
:02:01. > :02:18.Thank you for coming, great to see you. Andrew, back to you. Labour 's
:02:19. > :02:31.relationship with Unite and other issues all to be discussed in the
:02:32. > :02:34.Week Ahead and we're joined now by the shadow business secretary Chuka
:02:35. > :02:37.Umunna. First I would like to get your reaction to the interview I did
:02:38. > :02:41.earlier with the General Secretary of the union Unite - Len McCluskey.
:02:42. > :02:45.Let's look at what he said. This is a trap being laid by Tory Central
:02:46. > :02:49.office. They are making all of the demands and the Daily Mail, the
:02:50. > :02:53.Sunday Times, are you telling me they are not the conservative
:02:54. > :02:58.mouthpiece in the media? They are laying traps for Ed Miliband and he
:02:59. > :03:04.should not fall into them. Though it is all a Tory plot. Len McCluskey
:03:05. > :03:10.denies a lot of the allegations put, but let me be clear in an industrial
:03:11. > :03:15.dispute, the use of aggressive or intimidatory tactics by either side
:03:16. > :03:20.is totally unacceptable. Do you think it is wrong for Unite to send
:03:21. > :03:23.its members to the homes of managers? I don't know what happened
:03:24. > :03:29.in that particular case, but I think you should keep people 's families
:03:30. > :03:32.out of these things and if you are doing something that can upset
:03:33. > :03:39.particularly children, that is a bad thing. I know he denied a number of
:03:40. > :03:44.things you put to him. We now know some of the content of Labour 's own
:03:45. > :03:49.report into what happened at Falkirk and they found all sorts of things -
:03:50. > :03:57.forgery, coercion, trickery and even that their own investigation was
:03:58. > :04:10.being thwarted by Unite. What should Labour do next? I have not read the
:04:11. > :04:15.report. We are told that the latest allegations that have been made is
:04:16. > :04:17.something that the police are looking into so that is not
:04:18. > :04:29.something I think would be appropriate for me to comment on. We
:04:30. > :04:33.learned Labour Party members in the Falkirk constituency have complained
:04:34. > :04:38.to the leader of the Scottish party about a lack of action by the Labour
:04:39. > :04:48.Party on what happened in Falkirk. I am not part of the Scottish party
:04:49. > :04:51.and that is news to me. But the police have indicated they are
:04:52. > :04:56.looking at the new information that has come to light. It is a bit like
:04:57. > :04:59.the 1980s and there was an electrifying moment when Neil
:05:00. > :05:05.Kinnock took on the militant tendency in Bournemouth in 1985 Ed
:05:06. > :05:11.Miliband has sort of tried to take on the Unite union, but it has not
:05:12. > :05:16.worked. Does then not need to be an electrifying moment for Ed Miliband?
:05:17. > :05:20.Your own paper has praised him for seeking to address the issues we
:05:21. > :05:27.have in politics and the disconnection from people. In many
:05:28. > :05:32.respects the situation in Falkirk categorises the process of further
:05:33. > :05:37.ongoing change where we are trying to establish a better relationship
:05:38. > :05:42.with individual trade union members. In parts of my constituency, some of
:05:43. > :05:47.the most deprived parts, we had people queueing round the block to
:05:48. > :05:51.vote. I do not think the issue is that people are not political, but
:05:52. > :05:56.they have never felt so far from party politics as they do now and
:05:57. > :06:01.that is why Ed Miliband announced this big chains about how we do
:06:02. > :06:05.things in the Labour Party, so we change structures in the Labour
:06:06. > :06:09.Party that were set up in the 2 th century. The reform of the way in
:06:10. > :06:14.which we connect and our relationship with the union puts us
:06:15. > :06:21.in a good position because we have this relationship between the 3
:06:22. > :06:30.million working people who ensure our public services function. At
:06:31. > :06:35.Grangemouth INEOS stood up to unite. At Grangemouth and Falkirk
:06:36. > :06:44.Labour rolled over to the Unite union. I do not agree with that I'd
:06:45. > :06:50.just explained the reason. I do not think it is fair to ask people to
:06:51. > :06:54.give evidence in an enquiry on the basis of the report will be
:06:55. > :06:59.confidential and then to publish it after. But if somebody is trying to
:07:00. > :07:05.take over a Labour constituency to send an MP of their choice to our
:07:06. > :07:13.Parliament, that should not be secret, that should be public. Ed
:07:14. > :07:18.Miliband acted very decisively. That constituency party is still in
:07:19. > :07:22.special measures as I understand it. This idea that somehow the Unite
:07:23. > :07:30.union runs the Labour Party, they do not. The special measures mean
:07:31. > :07:38.according to Eric Joyce, that an ally of Stevie Deans is chairing the
:07:39. > :07:42.meeting. I am interested in the Tory suggestion that they would offer
:07:43. > :07:50.free Tory party membership to union members. I then moving onto your
:07:51. > :07:58.turf? We do not know exactly all the facts and the truth of the
:07:59. > :08:03.allegations that have been made On your point I think it is healthy the
:08:04. > :08:08.Conservatives are looking to recruit trade union members. A lot of their
:08:09. > :08:16.rhetoric is very negative in respect of trade unions. If you look at
:08:17. > :08:22.Unison a third of the members vote Conservative. In Unite union some of
:08:23. > :08:28.their members vote Tory. I think trade unions have a lot to bring to
:08:29. > :08:33.our country. It is one of the things many up and down the country will
:08:34. > :08:38.find very frustrating, a lot of the good work that unions do if it gets
:08:39. > :08:45.tarnished with all the negative stuff you see... Unite are working
:08:46. > :08:49.in partnership with GM and the senior management in Ellesmere Port
:08:50. > :08:54.and the government ensured that we kept that plant open. That gets
:08:55. > :09:00.overlooked by all of this. Do you not think the bolshie behaviour from
:09:01. > :09:05.unions are motivated not by strength, but by weakness. Unite
:09:06. > :09:10.know they cannot paralyse the country in the way their forebears
:09:11. > :09:14.used to be able to do. Their penetration rates in the private
:09:15. > :09:20.sector is 11%. The union movement is weaker than it was before I was
:09:21. > :09:24.born. Some of that truck killers and bad behaviour either death spasms of
:09:25. > :09:32.their movement rather than something that is motivated by the fact they
:09:33. > :09:40.can't paralyse the country. You have two increase the membership. But
:09:41. > :09:44.there is an issue about the public perception of trade unions. It is
:09:45. > :09:50.right they should be a voice of protest and anger and stand up for
:09:51. > :09:55.their members when it is necessary. But people join unions for their
:09:56. > :10:00.aspiration. The unions do a lot so that people can move up in their
:10:01. > :10:07.workplace. That profile needs to come across as strongly as the
:10:08. > :10:12.protest part. I want to move on to business. The head of the CBI has
:10:13. > :10:19.said that Labour's pro-enterprise credentials have suffered a setback.
:10:20. > :10:24.He said that in relation to Ed Miliband's speech. I was on the
:10:25. > :10:28.radio earlier. If you look at the things in the speech, some of that
:10:29. > :10:33.was going to be uncomfortable for some of the countries and they tend
:10:34. > :10:39.to be companies represented by the CBI, like energy companies, like
:10:40. > :10:46.land developers, a lot of the big business lose out from is not doing
:10:47. > :10:50.the corporate tax cut. The energy freeze is going to help over 2.
:10:51. > :10:56.million businesses that have been hit by high energy bills. The
:10:57. > :11:01.business community has said we had to bring the public sector finances
:11:02. > :11:07.back into balance. That is why we decided to switch the money being
:11:08. > :11:11.used to reduce corporation tax and use that to help a much greater
:11:12. > :11:20.variety of businesses by doing a business rate cut. It is all pro
:11:21. > :11:26.enterprise. They also seem to be critical of your new idea of a
:11:27. > :11:31.living wage. They are not critical. It would not be compulsory, but
:11:32. > :11:36.there would be a tax credit if they paid it. It is good for business
:11:37. > :11:43.because if people are earning more than they are more productive. It is
:11:44. > :11:49.good for the employee and good for us as well because it means we are
:11:50. > :11:54.not having to subsidise people to be paid to the extent we have with tax
:11:55. > :12:02.credits and benefits. Everybody benefits from this. We all know
:12:03. > :12:13.after 2009 we need to have bold change. Does Labour paid a living
:12:14. > :12:16.wage? We have got over 20 of our councils signed up to doing so and
:12:17. > :12:25.we have made commitments in respect to Whitehall. Does the Labour Party
:12:26. > :12:39.pay it? I believe so. Would it not be worth checking? Do you get a
:12:40. > :12:45.living wage? Yes, of course I do. I understand we paid a living wage.
:12:46. > :12:51.What does it feel like for Tristram Hunt who has taken over your mantle
:12:52. > :12:58.as Labour's next leader? Is that a relieved or are you angry? He is one
:12:59. > :13:03.of my best friends and at the end of the day if we got obsessed with this
:13:04. > :13:07.soap opera stuff we would never get anything done and we are working
:13:08. > :13:18.together to make sure we have got the right skills in our workforce.
:13:19. > :13:26.That is all for today. The daily politics is on all week. I will be
:13:27. > :13:31.here again next weekend at 12:2 pm after the Remembrance Day service at
:13:32. > :14:00.the Cenotaph. Remember if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.
:14:01. > :14:05.Planet Earth - it's unique. It has life.
:14:06. > :14:13.To understand why, we're going to build a planet...up there.
:14:14. > :14:15.There were the objects that were making the Earth.
:14:16. > :14:18.We're now weightless. That's how our planet started.
:14:19. > :14:21.Your arms are a little bit long Is that as small as they go?
:14:22. > :14:26.This is like every shopping trip I've ever been on.