:00:36. > :00:40.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.
:00:41. > :00:43.Labour's been hit hard by scandals at the Co-op. Ed Miliband says the
:00:44. > :00:46.Tories are mudslinging. We'll speak to Conservative Chairman Grant
:00:47. > :00:49.Shapps. Five years on from the financial
:00:50. > :00:52.crisis, and we're still talking about banks in trouble. Why haven't
:00:53. > :00:58.the regulators got the message? We'll ask the man who runs the
:00:59. > :01:01.City's new financial watchdog. And he used to have a windmill on
:01:02. > :01:05.his roof and talked about giving hugs to hoodies and huskies. These
:01:06. > :01:09.days, not so much. Has the plan to make the
:01:10. > :01:13.In the South: Children's Centres under threat of closure in
:01:14. > :01:14.Oxfordshire ` including one in the Prime Minister's own constituency.
:01:15. > :01:19.What are they playing at? warned that benefit falls will be to
:01:20. > :01:26.homelessness and population ships. What is the evidence?
:01:27. > :01:31.And as always, the political panel that reaches the parts other shows
:01:32. > :01:34.can only dream of. Janan Ganesh Helen Lewis and Nick Watt. They ll
:01:35. > :01:39.be tweeting faster than England loses wickets to Australia. Yes
:01:40. > :01:42.they're really that fast. First, some big news overnight from
:01:43. > :01:45.Geneva, where Iran has agreed to curb some of its nuclear activities
:01:46. > :01:49.in return for the partial easing of sanctions. Iran will pause the
:01:50. > :02:00.enrichment of uranium to weapons grade and America will free up some
:02:01. > :02:03.funds for Iran to spend. May be up to $10 billion. A more comprehensive
:02:04. > :02:06.deal is supposed to be done in six months. Here's what President Obama
:02:07. > :02:14.had to say about this interim agreement. We have pursued intensive
:02:15. > :02:19.diplomacy, bilaterally with the Iranians, and together with our
:02:20. > :02:23.partners, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Russia and China,
:02:24. > :02:29.as well as the European Union. Today, that diplomacy opened up a
:02:30. > :02:35.new path towards a world that is more secure, a future in which we
:02:36. > :02:41.can verify that Iraq and's nuclear programme is peaceful, and that it
:02:42. > :02:45.cannot build a nuclear weapon. President Obama spoke from the White
:02:46. > :02:51.House last night. Now the difficulty begins. This is meant to lead to a
:02:52. > :02:57.full-scale agreement which will effectively end all sanctions, and
:02:58. > :03:00.end Iran's ability to have a bomb. The early signs are pretty good The
:03:01. > :03:06.Iranian currency strengthened overnight, which is exactly what the
:03:07. > :03:13.Iranians wanted. Inflation in Iraq is 40%, so they need a stronger
:03:14. > :03:18.currency. -- information in Iran. France has played a blinder. It was
:03:19. > :03:21.there intransigence that led to this. Otherwise, I think the West
:03:22. > :03:27.would have led to a much softer deal. The question now becomes
:03:28. > :03:33.implementation. Here, everything hinges on two questions. First, who
:03:34. > :03:38.is Hassan Rouhani? Is he the Iranians Gorbachev, a serious
:03:39. > :03:44.reformer, or he's here much more tactical and cynical figure? Or
:03:45. > :03:47.within Iran, how powerful is he There are military men and
:03:48. > :03:54.intelligence officials within Iran who may stymie the process. The
:03:55. > :03:58.Western media concentrate on the fact that Mr Netanyahu and the
:03:59. > :04:04.Israelis are not happy about this. They don't often mention that the
:04:05. > :04:09.Arab Gulf states are also very apprehensive about this deal. I read
:04:10. > :04:20.this morning that the enemies of Qatar and Kuwait went to Saudi king.
:04:21. > :04:25.-- the MAs row. That is the key thing to watch in the next couple of
:04:26. > :04:29.weeks. There was a response from Saudi Arabia, but it came from the
:04:30. > :04:34.Prime Minister of Israel, who said this was a historic mistake. The
:04:35. > :04:38.United States said there would be no enrichment of uranium to weapons
:04:39. > :04:42.grade. In the last few minutes, the Iranian Foreign Minister has tweeted
:04:43. > :04:52.to say that there is an inalienable right -- right to enrich. The key
:04:53. > :04:56.thing is the most important thing that President Obama said in his
:04:57. > :05:00.inaugural speech. He reached out to Iran. It failed under President
:05:01. > :05:07.McKenna jab. Under President Rouhani, there seems to be progress.
:05:08. > :05:11.There is potentially now what he talked about in that first inaugural
:05:12. > :05:18.address potentially coming through. In the end, the key issue - and we
:05:19. > :05:22.don't know the answer - is the supreme leader, not the president.
:05:23. > :05:27.Will the supreme leader agreed to Iran giving up its ability to create
:05:28. > :05:32.nuclear weapons? This is the huge ambiguity. Ayatollah Khamenei
:05:33. > :05:38.authorise the position that President Rouhani took to Geneva.
:05:39. > :05:44.That doesn't mean he will sign off on every bit of implementation over
:05:45. > :05:49.the next six months. Even when President Ahmadinejad was president,
:05:50. > :05:55.he wasn't really President. We in the West have to resort to a kind of
:05:56. > :06:05.Iranians version of the study of the Kremlin, to work out what is going
:06:06. > :06:12.on. And the problem the president faces is that if there is any
:06:13. > :06:16.sign... He can unlock these funds by executive order at the moment, but
:06:17. > :06:21.if he needs any more, he has to go to Congress. Both the Democrat and
:06:22. > :06:28.the Republican side have huge scepticism about this. And he has
:06:29. > :06:32.very low credibility now. There s already been angry noises coming
:06:33. > :06:37.from quite a lot of senators. It was quite strange to see that photo of
:06:38. > :06:40.John Kerry hugging Cathy Ashton as if they had survived a ship great
:06:41. > :06:51.together. John Kerry is clearly feeling very happy. We will keep an
:06:52. > :06:53.eye on this. It is a fascinating development.
:06:54. > :06:56.More lurid details about the personal life of the Co-op Bank s
:06:57. > :07:01.disgraced former chairman, the Reverend Paul Flowers. The links
:07:02. > :07:04.between Labour, the bank and the wider Co-op movement have caused big
:07:05. > :07:09.problems for Ed Miliband this week, and the Conservatives have been
:07:10. > :07:12.revelling in it. But do the Tory allegations - Ed Miliband calls them
:07:13. > :07:22."smears" - stack up? Party Chairman Grant Shapps joins us from Hatfield.
:07:23. > :07:31.Welcome to the programme. When it comes to the Co-op, what are you
:07:32. > :07:35.accusing Labour of knowing and when? I think the simple thing to say here
:07:36. > :07:41.is that the Co-op is an important bank. They have obviously got into
:07:42. > :07:45.difficulty with Reverend flowers, and our primary concern is making
:07:46. > :07:48.sure that that is properly investigated, and that we understand
:07:49. > :07:51.what happened at the bank and how somebody like Paul Flowers could
:07:52. > :07:56.have ended up thing appointed chairman. You wrote to edge Miliband
:07:57. > :08:03.on Tuesday and asked him what he knew and when. -- you wrote to Ed
:08:04. > :08:07.Miliband. But by Prime Minister s Questions on Wednesday, David
:08:08. > :08:14.Cameron claims that you knew that Labour knew about his past all
:08:15. > :08:21.along. What is the evidence for that? We found out by Wednesday that
:08:22. > :08:26.he had been a Labour councillor Reverend Flowers, and had been made
:08:27. > :08:30.to stand down. Certainly, Labour knew about that, but somehow didn't
:08:31. > :08:37.seem to think that that made him less appropriate to be the chairman
:08:38. > :08:43.of the Co-op bank. There was no evidence that Mr Miliband or Mr
:08:44. > :08:48.Balls knew about that. I ask you again, what are you accusing the
:08:49. > :08:57.Labour leadership of knowing? We know now that he stood down for very
:08:58. > :09:00.inappropriate images on his computer, apparently. You are
:09:01. > :09:05.telling me that they didn't know. I am not sure that is clear at all. I
:09:06. > :09:09.have heard conflicting reports. There is a much bigger argument
:09:10. > :09:15.about what they knew and when. There was a much bigger issue here. This
:09:16. > :09:19.morning, Ed Miliband has said that they don't have to answer these
:09:20. > :09:22.questions and that these smears This is ludicrous. These are
:09:23. > :09:26.important questions about an important bank, how it ended up
:09:27. > :09:33.getting into this position, and how a disastrous Britannia -- Italia
:09:34. > :09:40.deal happen. -- Britannia deal happened. And we need to know how
:09:41. > :09:43.the bank came off the rails. To be accused of smears for asking the
:09:44. > :09:48.questions is ridiculous. I am just trying to find out what you are
:09:49. > :09:54.accusing Labour of. You saying that the Labour leadership knew about the
:09:55. > :10:03.drug-taking? Sorry, there was some noise here. I don't know what was
:10:04. > :10:07.known and when. We do know that Labour, the party, certainly knew
:10:08. > :10:12.about these very difficult circumstances in which he resigned
:10:13. > :10:17.as a councillor. I think that the Labour Party knew about it. We knew
:10:18. > :10:21.that Bradford did, but not London. Are you saying that Ed Miliband knew
:10:22. > :10:26.about the inappropriate material on the Reverend's laptop? It is
:10:27. > :10:33.certainly the case that Labour knew about it. But did Mr Miliband know
:10:34. > :10:40.about it, and his predilection for rent boys? He will need to answer
:10:41. > :10:44.those questions. It is quite proper to ask those questions. Surely,
:10:45. > :10:49.asking a perfectly legitimate set of questions, not just about that but
:10:50. > :10:53.about how we have ended up in a situation where this bank has made
:10:54. > :10:59.loans to Labour for millions of pounds, that bank and the Unite
:11:00. > :11:06.bank, who is connected to it. And how they made a ?50,000 donation to
:11:07. > :11:11.Ed Balls' office. Ed Balls says that was nothing to do with Reverend
:11:12. > :11:16.Flowers, and yet Reverend Flowers said that he personally signed that
:11:17. > :11:20.off. Lots of questions to answer. David Cameron has already answered
:11:21. > :11:26.them on Wednesday. He said that you now know that Labour knew about his
:11:27. > :11:29.past all along. You have not been able to present evidence that
:11:30. > :11:35.involve Mr Miliband or Mr Balls in that. So until you get that, surely
:11:36. > :11:39.you should apologise? Hang on. He said that Labour knew about this,
:11:40. > :11:45.and they did, because he stood down as a councillor. If Ed Miliband
:11:46. > :11:50.didn't know about that, then why not? This was quite a serious thing
:11:51. > :11:54.that happened. The wider point is about why it is that when you ask
:11:55. > :11:58.perfectly legitimate questions about this bank, about the Britannia deal,
:11:59. > :12:08.and about the background of Mr flowers, why is the response, it is
:12:09. > :12:11.all smears? There are questions about how Labour failed to deal with
:12:12. > :12:15.the deficit and how it hasn't done anything to support the welfare
:12:16. > :12:24.changes, but there is nothing about that. Let us -- lets: To the wider
:12:25. > :12:32.picture of the Co-operative Bank. Labour wanted the Co-op to take over
:12:33. > :12:37.the Britannia Building Society, and it was a disaster. Do you accept
:12:38. > :12:44.that? The government of the day has to be a part of these discussions
:12:45. > :12:49.for regulatory reason. The government in 2009 - Ed Balls was
:12:50. > :12:55.very pleased... But you supported that decision. There was a later
:12:56. > :13:00.deal, potentially, for the Co-op to buy those Lloyds branches. There was
:13:01. > :13:08.a proper process and it didn't go through just recently. If there had
:13:09. > :13:14.been a proper process back in 2 09, would the Britannia deal have gone
:13:15. > :13:19.through? First, you accept that the Tories were in favour of the
:13:20. > :13:23.Britannia take over. Then your Chancellor Osborne went out of his
:13:24. > :13:26.way to facilitate the purchase of the Lloyds branches, even though you
:13:27. > :13:34.had no idea that the Co-op had the management expertise to become a
:13:35. > :13:40.super medium. Correct? The difference is that that deal didn't
:13:41. > :13:47.go through. There was a proper process that took place. Let's look
:13:48. > :13:53.at the process. There was long indications as far back as January
:13:54. > :13:58.2012 that the Co-op, as a direct result of the Britannia take over
:13:59. > :14:02.which you will party supported, was unfit to acquire the Lloyds
:14:03. > :14:09.branches. By January 2012, the Chancellor and the Treasury ignored
:14:10. > :14:12.the warnings. Wide? In 2009, there was political pressure for the
:14:13. > :14:17.Britannia to be brought together. Based on the information available,
:14:18. > :14:20.this was supported, but that process ended up with a very, very
:14:21. > :14:26.problematic takeover of the Britannia. Wind forward to this
:14:27. > :14:29.year, and when the same types of issues were being looked at for the
:14:30. > :14:34.purchase of the Lloyds deal, the proper process was followed, this
:14:35. > :14:38.time with us in government, and that purchase didn't go through. It is
:14:39. > :14:41.important that the proper process is followed, and when it was, it
:14:42. > :14:51.transpired that the deal wasn't going to be done. But it was the
:14:52. > :14:56.Treasury and the Chancellor who were the cheerleaders for the acquisition
:14:57. > :15:00.of the Lloyds branches. But there was a warning that the Co-op did not
:15:01. > :15:03.have enough capital on its balance sheet to make those acquisitions,
:15:04. > :15:09.but instead of heeding those warnings, your people went to
:15:10. > :15:14.Brussels to lobby for the requirements to be relaxed - why on
:15:15. > :15:18.earth did you do that? Our Chancellor went to argue for all of
:15:19. > :15:23.Rajesh banking, not specifically for the Co-op. He was arguing for the
:15:24. > :15:28.mutuals to be given a special ruling. The idea was to make sure
:15:29. > :15:34.that every bank in Britain could have a better deal, particularly the
:15:35. > :15:37.mutuals, as you say. That is a proper thing for the Chancellor to
:15:38. > :15:41.be doing. We could go round in circles here, but in the end, there
:15:42. > :15:45.was not a takeover of the Lloyds branches, that is because we
:15:46. > :15:50.followed a proper process. Had that same rigorous process been followed
:15:51. > :15:54.in 2009, the legitimate question to ask is whether the Co-op would have
:15:55. > :15:58.been -- would have taken over the Britannia. That is a proper question
:15:59. > :16:02.to ask. It is no good to have the leader of the opposition say, as
:16:03. > :16:05.soon as you ask any of these questions about anything where there
:16:06. > :16:10.is a problem for them, they come back with, oh, this is all smears.
:16:11. > :16:13.There are questions to ask about what the Labour government did, the
:16:14. > :16:19.debt and the deficit they left the country with, the way they stopped
:16:20. > :16:23.work from paying in this country. The big question your government has
:16:24. > :16:27.two answer is, why, by July 201 , when it was clear there was a black
:16:28. > :16:32.hole in the Co-op's balance sheet, your government re-confirmed the
:16:33. > :16:37.Co-op as the preferred bidder for Lloyds - why would you do that?
:16:38. > :16:41.Well, look, the good thing is, we can discuss this until the cows come
:16:42. > :16:45.home, but there is going to be a proper, full investigation, so we
:16:46. > :16:50.will find out what happened, all the way back. So, we will be able to get
:16:51. > :16:54.to the bottom of all of this. Grant Shapps, the only reason the Lloyds
:16:55. > :17:00.deal did not go ahead was, despite the Treasury cheerleading, when
:17:01. > :17:02.Lloyds began its due diligence, it found that there was indeed a huge
:17:03. > :17:08.black hole in the balance sheet and that the Co-op was not fit to take
:17:09. > :17:13.over its branches. That wasn't you, it wasn't the Government, it was not
:17:14. > :17:19.the Chancellor, it was Lloyds. You were still cheerleading for the deal
:17:20. > :17:23.to go ahead... Well, as I say, a proper process was followed, which
:17:24. > :17:27.did not result in the purchase of the Lloyds branches. At that proper
:17:28. > :17:32.process been followed with the purchase of the Britannia, under the
:17:33. > :17:37.previous government... Which you supported. Yes, but it may well be
:17:38. > :17:40.that under that previous deal, there was a excess political pressure
:17:41. > :17:49.perhaps put on in order to create that merger, which proved so
:17:50. > :17:54.disastrous. The Tories facilitated it, Grant Shapps, they allowed it to
:17:55. > :17:58.go ahead. I have said, we are going to have a proper, independent
:17:59. > :18:02.review. What I cannot understand is, when you announce a robber,
:18:03. > :18:08.independent review, the response you get to these serious questions. The
:18:09. > :18:14.response is, oh, this is a smear. It is crazy. We are trying to answer
:18:15. > :18:23.the big questions for this country. We have done all of that, and we are
:18:24. > :18:26.out of time. The Reverend Flowers' chairmanship of the Co-op bank was
:18:27. > :18:31.approved by the regulator at the time, which no longer exists. It was
:18:32. > :18:36.swept away by the coalition government in a supposed revolution
:18:37. > :18:39.in regulation. But will its replacement, the Financial Conduct
:18:40. > :18:48.Authority, be different? Adam has been to find out. Come with me for a
:18:49. > :18:53.spin around the Square mile to find out how we regulate our financial
:18:54. > :18:58.sector, which is almost five times bigger than the country's entire
:18:59. > :19:03.annual income. First, let's pick up our guide, journalist Iain Martin,
:19:04. > :19:09.who has just written a book about what went so wrong during the
:19:10. > :19:11.financial crisis. The FSA was an agency which was established to
:19:12. > :19:16.supervise the banks on a day-to day basis. The Bank of England was
:19:17. > :19:19.supposed to have overall responsible at for this to Bolivia the financial
:19:20. > :19:24.system and the Treasury was supposed to take an interest in all of these
:19:25. > :19:30.things. The disaster was that it was not anyone's call responsibility, or
:19:31. > :19:33.main day job, to stay alert as to whether or not the banking system as
:19:34. > :19:37.a whole was being run in a safe manner. And so this April, a new
:19:38. > :19:47.system was set up to police the City. Most of the responsibly delays
:19:48. > :19:50.here, with the Bank of England, and its new Prudential Regulation
:19:51. > :19:54.Authority. And the Financial Services Authority has been replaced
:19:55. > :20:00.with the new Financial Conduct Authority. Can we go to the
:20:01. > :20:05.financial conduct authority, please? Canary Wharf, thank you. Here, it is
:20:06. > :20:08.all about whether the people in financial services are playing by
:20:09. > :20:14.the rules, in particular, how they treat their customers. This place
:20:15. > :20:17.has got new powers, like the ability to ban products it does not like, a
:20:18. > :20:21.new mandate to promote competition in the market, the concept being,
:20:22. > :20:26.more competition means a better market, plus the idea that a new
:20:27. > :20:33.organisation rings a whole new culture. Although these are the old
:20:34. > :20:38.offices of the FSA, so maybe not quite so new after all. It has also
:20:39. > :20:42.inherited the case of the Co-op bank and its disgraced former chairman
:20:43. > :20:45.the Reverend Paul Flowers. The SCA will be part of the investigation
:20:46. > :20:50.into what happened, which will probably involve looking at its own
:20:51. > :20:54.conduct. One member of the Parliamentary commission into
:20:55. > :20:59.banking wonders whether the new regulator, and its new boss, are up
:21:00. > :21:04.to it. I have always said, it is not the architecture which is the issue,
:21:05. > :21:08.it is the powers that the regulator has, and today, it does not seem to
:21:09. > :21:14.me as if there is any increase in that. And with the unfolding scandal
:21:15. > :21:21.at the Co-op, it feels like the new architecture for regulating the City
:21:22. > :21:24.is now facing its first big test. And the chief executive of the
:21:25. > :21:30.Financial Conduct Authority, the SCA, Martin Wheatley, joins me now.
:21:31. > :21:33.Welcome to The Sunday Politics. The failure of bank regulation was one
:21:34. > :21:39.of the clearest lessons of the crash in 2008, and yet two years later, in
:21:40. > :21:45.2010, Paul Flowers is allowed to become chairman of the Co-op - why
:21:46. > :21:49.have we still not got the regulation right? We have made a lot of changes
:21:50. > :21:53.since then. We have created a new regulator, as you know. At the time,
:21:54. > :21:57.we still had a process which allowed somebody to be appointed to a bank
:21:58. > :22:01.and they would go through a challenge, but in the case of Paul
:22:02. > :22:03.Flowers, there was no need for an additional challenge when he was
:22:04. > :22:10.appointed to chairman, because he was already on the board. But going
:22:11. > :22:15.from being on the board to becoming chairman, that is a big jump, and he
:22:16. > :22:19.only had one interview? That is why today, it would be different. But
:22:20. > :22:24.the truth is, that was the system at the time, the system which the FSA
:22:25. > :22:28.operated. He was challenged, we did challenge him, and we said, you do
:22:29. > :22:32.not have the right experience, but at the time, we would not have
:22:33. > :22:35.opposed the appointment. What we needed was additional representation
:22:36. > :22:40.of the board of people who did have banking experience. You can say that
:22:41. > :22:44.that was then and this is now, but up until April of this year, it was
:22:45. > :22:48.still the plan for the Co-op, under Mr Flowers, and despite being
:22:49. > :22:54.seriously wounded by the Britannia takeover, to take on 632 Lloyds
:22:55. > :22:58.branches. That was the Co-op's plan. They needed to pass our test
:22:59. > :23:02.as to whether we thought they were fit to do that, and frankly, they
:23:03. > :23:07.never passed that test. It was not the regulator that stopped them It
:23:08. > :23:11.was. We were constantly pushing back, saying, you have not got the
:23:12. > :23:13.capital, you have no got the systems, and ultimately, they
:23:14. > :23:19.withdrew, when they could not answer our questions. You were asking the
:23:20. > :23:24.right questions, I accept that, but all of the time, the politicians on
:23:25. > :23:28.all sides, they were pushing for it to happen, and I cannot find
:23:29. > :23:34.anywhere where the regulator said, look, this is just not going to
:23:35. > :23:37.happen. I cannot comment on what the politicians were doing, but I
:23:38. > :23:40.continue what we were doing, which was constantly asking the Co-op
:23:41. > :23:45.have you got the systems in place, have you got the people, have you
:23:46. > :23:48.got the capital? And they didn't. But it only came to a head when
:23:49. > :23:52.Lloyds started its own due diligence on the bank, and they discovered
:23:53. > :23:57.that it was impossible for them to take over the branches, it was not
:23:58. > :24:02.the regulator... In fairness, what we do is ask the questions, can you
:24:03. > :24:06.do this deal? And we kept pushing back, and we never frankly got
:24:07. > :24:13.delivered a business plan which we were happy to approve. Is the SCA
:24:14. > :24:24.going to launch its own inquiry into what happened? -- the FCA. The
:24:25. > :24:29.Chancellor has announced what will be a very broad inquiry. There are a
:24:30. > :24:34.number of specifics which we will be able to look at, relating to events
:24:35. > :24:38.over the last five years. Could there be a police investigation I
:24:39. > :24:42.think the police have already announced an investigation. I am
:24:43. > :24:46.talking about into the handling of the bank. It depends. There might
:24:47. > :24:55.be, if there is grim low activity, which we do not know yet. You worked
:24:56. > :25:02.at the FS eight, didn't you? I did. Some of those people who were signed
:25:03. > :25:08.off on the speedy promotion of Mr Flowers, are they now working
:25:09. > :25:11.there? Yes, we have some. I came to join the Financial Services
:25:12. > :25:17.Authority, to lead it into the creation of the new body, the SCA.
:25:18. > :25:28.We had people who were challenging and they did the job. There was not
:25:29. > :25:31.a requirement to approve the role as chairman. There was not even a
:25:32. > :25:36.requirement to interview at that stage. What we did do was to require
:25:37. > :25:48.that he was interviewed, and that the Co-op should get additional
:25:49. > :25:53.experience. One of the people from the old organisation, who signed up
:25:54. > :25:55.on the promotion of Mr Flowers to become chairman is now a
:25:56. > :26:03.nonexecutive director of the Co op, so how does that work? Welcome he
:26:04. > :26:06.was a senior adviser to our organisation, one of the people who
:26:07. > :26:11.made the challenges, and who said, you need more experience on your
:26:12. > :26:15.board. Subsequently he then went and joined the board. Surely that should
:26:16. > :26:20.not be allowed, the regulator and the regulated should not be like
:26:21. > :26:25.that. Well clearly, you need protection, but we have got to get
:26:26. > :26:28.good people in, and frankly, we want the industry to have good people in
:26:29. > :26:33.the industry, so there will be some movement between the regulator and
:26:34. > :26:36.industry. We all wonder whether you have the power or even the
:26:37. > :26:40.confidence to stand up if you look at all of the really bad bank
:26:41. > :26:44.decisions recently, politicians were behind them. It was Gordon Brown who
:26:45. > :26:49.pushed the disastrous merger of Lloyds and RBS. It was Alex Salmond
:26:50. > :26:54.who egged on RBS to buy the world. All three main parties wanted the
:26:55. > :26:58.Co-op to buy Britannia, even though they did not know the debt it would
:26:59. > :27:01.inherit, and all three wanted the Co-op to buy the Lloyds branches -
:27:02. > :27:07.how do you as a regulator stand up to that little concert party? Well,
:27:08. > :27:11.that political pressure exists, our job at the end of the day is to do a
:27:12. > :27:16.relatively technical job and say, does it stack up? And it didn't and
:27:17. > :27:19.we made that point time and time again to the Co-op board. They did
:27:20. > :27:23.not have a business case that we could approve. The bodies on left
:27:24. > :27:30.and right -- the politicians on left and right gave the Co-op special
:27:31. > :27:37.support. They may have done, but that was not you have made a warning
:27:38. > :27:41.about these payday lenders, but I think what most people would like to
:27:42. > :27:45.see is a limit put on the interest they can charge over a period of
:27:46. > :27:50.time - will you do that? We have got a whole set of powers for payday
:27:51. > :27:54.lenders. We will bring in some changes from April next year, and we
:27:55. > :27:57.will bring in further changes as we see necessary. Will you put a limit
:27:58. > :28:03.on the interest they can charge That is something we can study. You
:28:04. > :28:08.do not sound too keen on it? Well, there are a lot of changes we need
:28:09. > :28:11.to make. One change is limiting rollovers, limiting the use of
:28:12. > :28:16.continuous payment authorities. Simply jumping to one trigger would
:28:17. > :28:20.be a mistake. Finally, an issue which I think is becoming a growing
:28:21. > :28:25.concern, because the Government is thinking of subsidising them, 9 %
:28:26. > :28:30.mortgages are back - should we not be worried about that? I think we
:28:31. > :28:34.should if the market has the same experiences that we had back in 2007
:28:35. > :28:39.- oh wait. We are bringing a comprehensive package in under our
:28:40. > :28:43.mortgage market review, which will change how people lend and will put
:28:44. > :28:54.affordability back at the heart of lending decisions. -- 2007-08. You
:28:55. > :28:56.have not had your first big challenge yet, have you? We have
:28:57. > :29:05.many challenges. It was once called the battle of the
:29:06. > :29:07.mods and the rockers - the fight between David Cameron-style
:29:08. > :29:10.modernisers and old-style traditional Tories for the direction
:29:11. > :29:17.and soul of the Conservative Party. But have the mods given up on
:29:18. > :29:22.changing the brand? When David Cameron took over in 2005, he
:29:23. > :29:26.promoted himself as a new Tory leader. He said that hoodies need
:29:27. > :29:33.more love. He was talking about something called the big society. He
:29:34. > :29:37.told his party conference that it was time to that sunshine win the
:29:38. > :29:41.day. There was new emphasis on the environment, and an eye-catching
:29:42. > :29:47.trip to a Norwegian glacier to see first-hand, supposedly, the effects
:29:48. > :29:51.of global warming. This week, party modernise and Nick bone has said
:29:52. > :29:55.that the party is still seen as an old-fashioned monolith and hasn t
:29:56. > :30:04.done enough to improve its appeal. The Tories have put some reforms
:30:05. > :30:09.into practice, such as gay marriage, but they have put more into welfare
:30:10. > :30:13.reform band compassionate conservatism. David Cameron wants
:30:14. > :30:21.talked about leading the greenest government ever. Downing Street says
:30:22. > :30:28.that the quote in the Son is not recognised, get rid of the green
:30:29. > :30:31.crap. At this point in the programme we were expecting to hear from the
:30:32. > :30:33.Energy and Climate Change Minister, Greg Barker. Unfortunately, he has
:30:34. > :30:40.pulled out, with Downing Street saying it's for ""family reasons"".
:30:41. > :30:45.Make of that what you will. However, we won't be deterred. We're still
:30:46. > :30:48.doing the story, and we're joined by our very own mod and rocker - David
:30:49. > :30:54.Skelton of the think-tank Renewal, and Conservative MP Peter Bone.
:30:55. > :30:59.Welcome to you both. I'm glad your family is allowed you to come? David
:31:00. > :31:04.Skelton, getting rid of all the green crap, or words to that effect,
:31:05. > :31:07.that David Cameron has been saying. It is just a sign that Tory
:31:08. > :31:13.modernisation has been quietly buried. I do think that's right
:31:14. > :31:18.Modernisation is about reaching out to the voters, and the work to do
:31:19. > :31:23.that is now more relevant than ever. We got the biggest swing since 931,
:31:24. > :31:28.and the thing is we need to do more to reach out to voters in the North.
:31:29. > :31:37.We need to reach out to non-white voters, and show that the concerns
:31:38. > :31:41.of modern Britain and the concerns of ordinary people is something that
:31:42. > :31:45.we share. And what way will racking up electricity bills with green
:31:46. > :31:51.levies get you more votes in the North of England? We have to look at
:31:52. > :31:54.ways to reduce energy bills. The renewable energy directive doesn't
:31:55. > :32:01.do anything to help cut our emissions, but does decrease energy
:32:02. > :32:04.bills by ?45 a year. We should renegotiate that. That is a part of
:32:05. > :32:10.modernisation and doing what ordinarily people want. And old
:32:11. > :32:16.dinosaurs like you are just holding this modernisation process back I
:32:17. > :32:21.am very appreciative of covering on this programme. The Tory party has
:32:22. > :32:25.been reforming itself for more than 150 years. This idea of modern eyes
:32:26. > :32:33.a is just some invention. We are changing all the time. I'm nice and
:32:34. > :32:38.cuddly! So you are happy that the party made gay marriage almost a
:32:39. > :32:46.kind of symbol of its modernisation? Fine Mac the gay marriage was a free
:32:47. > :32:50.vote. David Cameron was recorded as a rebel there because more Tories
:32:51. > :32:54.voted against his position than ever before. It was said that this was a
:32:55. > :32:58.split between the old and young but it actually was a split between
:32:59. > :33:02.those who were religious and nonreligious. It is a
:33:03. > :33:10.misinterpretation of what happened. Is a modernisation in retreat? I
:33:11. > :33:15.think modernisation is an invention. Seven years ago, in my
:33:16. > :33:21.part of the world, we got three councillors elected, two were 8 and
:33:22. > :33:25.one was 21. A few months ago, a 25-year-old was chosen to fight
:33:26. > :33:31.Corby for the Conservative Party. He came from a comprehensive School. He
:33:32. > :33:37.was one of the youngest. The Tory party is moving on. So you found
:33:38. > :33:46.three young people? Hang on a minute. You can't get away with
:33:47. > :33:51.that. Three in one batch. Does modernisation exist? Modernisation
:33:52. > :33:54.is about watering our appeal and sharing our values are relevant to
:33:55. > :33:59.voters who haven't really thought about voting for us for decades now.
:34:00. > :34:03.Modernisation is about more than windmills and stuff, it is about
:34:04. > :34:10.boosting the life chances of the poorest, it is about putting better
:34:11. > :34:15.schools in poorer areas. It is also saying that modernisation and the
:34:16. > :34:20.Tory party... When has the Tory party been against making poorer
:34:21. > :34:24.people better off? Or against better schools? Do you think Mrs Thatcher
:34:25. > :34:27.was a moderniser when she won all those elections? The problem we have
:34:28. > :34:33.at the moment is that UKIP has grown-up. If we could get all of
:34:34. > :34:38.those people who vote UKIP to vote for us, we would get 47% of the
:34:39. > :34:43.vote. We don't need to worry about voters on the left. We need to worry
:34:44. > :34:51.about the voters in the north, those people who haven't voted for us for
:34:52. > :34:57.decades. Having an EU Referendum Bill is going to get people to
:34:58. > :35:01.vote. We have to reach out to voters, but not by some sort of
:35:02. > :35:07.London based in need. You have to broaden your base. I agree with you
:35:08. > :35:10.on that. We have to broaden our appeal, but this back to the future
:35:11. > :35:15.concept is not going to work. We need something that generally
:35:16. > :35:17.appeals to low and middle-income voters, and something that shows we
:35:18. > :35:22.genuinely care about the life genuinely care about the life
:35:23. > :35:30.chances of the poorest. Do you think that the people who vote UKIP don't
:35:31. > :35:34.support those aspirations? We are not doing enough to cut immigration.
:35:35. > :35:38.We don't have an EU Referendum Bill stop we have to get the centre right
:35:39. > :35:46.to vote for us again. Do that, and we have it. Tom Pursglove, the 25
:35:47. > :35:59.euros, will be returned in Corby because we cannot win an election
:36:00. > :36:04.there. -- the 25-year-old. Whether you are moderniser or
:36:05. > :36:12.traditionalist, people, particularly in the North, see you as a bunch of
:36:13. > :36:17.rich men. And rich southerners. You are bunch of rich southerners. We
:36:18. > :36:23.need to do more to show that we are building on lifting the poorest out
:36:24. > :36:27.of the tax. We need to build more houses. There is a perception that
:36:28. > :36:34.the leadership at the moment is rich, and public school educated.
:36:35. > :36:40.What we have to do is get more people from state education into the
:36:41. > :36:48.top. You are going the other way at the moment. That is a fair
:36:49. > :36:55.criticism. Modernisers also say that. I went to a combo hedge of
:36:56. > :36:58.school as well. -- do a comprehensive school. We need to
:36:59. > :37:07.show that we are standing up for low income. Thank Q, both of you. You
:37:08. > :37:17.are watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up in just under 20 minutes,
:37:18. > :37:22.Welcome to Sunday Politics South. On today's show: female genital
:37:23. > :37:26.mutilation has been against the law for almost 30 years in this country,
:37:27. > :37:31.but no`one has ever been prosecuted for it. Now a committee of MPs wants
:37:32. > :37:37.to find out why. More on that shortly.
:37:38. > :37:41.First, though, let's meet the two politicians who are going to be with
:37:42. > :37:44.me for the next 20 minutes. Layla Moran is the Liberal Democrat for
:37:45. > :37:46.Oxford West Abingdon. Hello. And Ian Hudspeth is the Conservative
:37:47. > :37:49.leader of Oxfordshire County Council. Hello.
:37:50. > :37:53.Let's kick off with a little something from this week's Prime
:37:54. > :37:56.Minister's Questions. Mr Speaker, can the Prime Minister tell us how
:37:57. > :38:03.his campaign is going ` the campaign to save the Chipping Norton
:38:04. > :38:06.Children's Centre. I support Children's Centres across the whole
:38:07. > :38:09.of the country. The fact is, in spite of very difficult decisions
:38:10. > :38:13.that have had to be made right across the country, the number of
:38:14. > :38:17.Children's Centres has reduced by around 1%. Like all Members of
:38:18. > :38:23.Parliament, I fight very hard for services in my constituency. He then
:38:24. > :38:26.went on to ask why he'd signed a petition. Is that addressed to his
:38:27. > :38:31.local council... That would be you, Ian. Or is he taking it straight to
:38:32. > :38:34.the top? That would be the Prime Minister, I presume. Is this
:38:35. > :38:40.hypocrisy? I don't think so. You've got to remember that David Cameron
:38:41. > :38:43.is a constituency MP. Obviously he understands, and he wants to protect
:38:44. > :38:46.it. But there are difficult decisions that have got to be taken.
:38:47. > :38:50.We've got to produce a balanced budget at the end of the year, to
:38:51. > :38:54.make sure we're in the right place and moving forward. He says this
:38:55. > :38:57.government can hold its head up high because we are increasing the amount
:38:58. > :39:00.of money that's going to local councils for Children's Centres.
:39:01. > :39:04.That's not what you see in Oxfordshire, is it? It's just simply
:39:05. > :39:08.not true. That money can't be ring fenced in that way. I agree with
:39:09. > :39:12.you. I think it is hypocrisy. But the issue, I think, is Eric Pickles.
:39:13. > :39:14.As a Cabinet Member, your job is to fight your corner within government.
:39:15. > :39:18.He, for ideological reasons, has thought that there's been too much
:39:19. > :39:22.waste in local government. He thinks it's a great idea to encourage more
:39:23. > :39:25.cuts. When he came and did an interview in Oxfordshire, he got his
:39:26. > :39:29.numbers completely wrong. He doesn't understand the picture on the
:39:30. > :39:32.ground. But let's get back to David Cameron. Who's in charge here? Eric
:39:33. > :39:35.Pickles or David Cameron? Does David Cameron want money to go to
:39:36. > :39:38.Children's Centres? You talk to him. Is it just not getting through? He
:39:39. > :39:42.wants to retain Children's Centres. He's a great supporter. Why doesn't
:39:43. > :39:47.he do anything about it then!? One of the things that we are going to
:39:48. > :39:50.be doing... The budget comes out in a few weeks and you'll see the
:39:51. > :39:54.proposals. We're going to make sure that we've got a balanced budget.
:39:55. > :39:57.But within that we've got to keep the envelope. You've got to remember
:39:58. > :40:00.that these financial constraints are because of the need to reduce the
:40:01. > :40:03.deficit. Both Conservative and Liberal Democrat MPs are making the
:40:04. > :40:10.decisions. We've got to understand that. Both parties are reducing the
:40:11. > :40:13.deficit. We've got to be in that. What we've got to do is look at
:40:14. > :40:19.smarter ways of working. We've already done that in Oxford. Working
:40:20. > :40:23.with the community. But in the end you've got less money from central
:40:24. > :40:26.government? There's no doubt about it. We've got less money. You were
:40:27. > :40:29.with me at the meetings. I had public meetings... I addressed
:40:30. > :40:35.people... Understanding what was of concern to them. We've been
:40:36. > :40:39.listening to that. I finished the last one on Thursday. We're going to
:40:40. > :40:43.make all of those comments go into the budget and we'll see what
:40:44. > :40:47.happens then. Not at the end of procedure. Let me just pick you up
:40:48. > :40:50.on that. It is double standards, surely, for you to complain about
:40:51. > :40:53.this when it is a Liberal Democrat government as well? Absolutely. We
:40:54. > :40:57.are absolutely committed to getting the economy going again. That is
:40:58. > :41:01.true. But there are times when you have got to fight your corner. The
:41:02. > :41:04.fact is that Members of Parliament ` Conservative ones ` have not been
:41:05. > :41:07.standing up for this issue. Oxfordshire County Council... I feel
:41:08. > :41:12.sorry for you Ian. I'm sorry! You clearly don't have the influence on
:41:13. > :41:15.the party that you thought you did. It's up to the MPs to make that case
:41:16. > :41:18.on behalf of Oxfordshire. If Ian doesn't have influence, David
:41:19. > :41:21.Cameron doesn't seem to have it either! You've got to remember that
:41:22. > :41:24.the Coalition Government has got to reduce the deficit. Conservatives
:41:25. > :41:27.and Liberals taking very tough decisions ` reducing the budget so
:41:28. > :41:31.we can actually get the deficit down. That's what we have to do on
:41:32. > :41:34.the ground, so we can deliver good services to the people of
:41:35. > :41:37.Oxfordshire. Liberal Democrats are committed to keeping them open. In
:41:38. > :41:41.my constituency, we're running a campaign to keep them open. I
:41:42. > :41:45.mean... Danny Alexander doesn't sit there saying 'I had a bad pie in
:41:46. > :41:51.Oxfordshire once... I'm not going to give them extra money'. It's about
:41:52. > :41:55.the funding formula. That's decided by Eric Pickles and his ministry. If
:41:56. > :42:04.that's wrong ` and I think it is, you're getting a raw deal ` we have
:42:05. > :42:08.to stand up for what we want. The Liberal Democrats are involved in
:42:09. > :42:12.reducing the budgets. Now, you might remember that 18
:42:13. > :42:15.months ago we met Lucy Herd. She was campaigning for statutory
:42:16. > :42:19.bereavement leave. She's back with us today. Partly as a result of
:42:20. > :42:26.being on that programme, her campaign came one step closer to
:42:27. > :42:29.fruition this week. Have you got good news for us? I have. It was
:42:30. > :42:34.mentioned in Prime Minister's Questions. It was! David Cameron
:42:35. > :42:38.said he was sympathetic, partly because he lost his own son...
:42:39. > :42:42.Absolutely. It was very moving. He said he would look into it and get
:42:43. > :42:49.back to Tom Harris MP. He raised the question. He also had, back in
:42:50. > :42:54.September, a Ten Minute Rule Bill? Yes. It didn't seem to go down that
:42:55. > :42:57.well. At the time, they were suggesting that the 1996 Employment
:42:58. > :43:01.Rights Act allows time off for dependence ` a legal right to unpaid
:43:02. > :43:06.leave for family emergencies. One or two days to deal with the problem.
:43:07. > :43:17.That's not enough, you're saying. Maybe guidance is the answer now? I
:43:18. > :43:21.don't think guidance is enough. You're still under the discretion of
:43:22. > :43:25.your employer. So if they tell you that you can't have time off,
:43:26. > :43:29.there's no law to say they're wrong. Your four weeks of bereavement
:43:30. > :43:33.leave... Wouldn't that be not enough for some people? Maybe used as a
:43:34. > :43:41.negotiating tool by some others, which would then damage the genuine
:43:42. > :43:45.cases? That's why I'm speaking now, about the death of a child. I have
:43:46. > :43:53.heard employers tell me that they've had a 'great aunt' who has died five
:43:54. > :43:56.times. All from the same person. So you do have the minority who ruin it
:43:57. > :44:00.for everybody else. Everybody deals with grief differently. There is no
:44:01. > :44:04.right way and no wrong way. I think there needs to be legislation to say
:44:05. > :44:07.you have to give time off to grieve. There's a possibility of that coming
:44:08. > :44:13.through the Children's and Families Bill. Would you support this, Ian?
:44:14. > :44:18.Even though it's more regulation? Absolutely. It's a terrible
:44:19. > :44:21.situation. All individuals. But particularly the death of a child.
:44:22. > :44:25.It really affects people. I think you should negotiate with your
:44:26. > :44:32.employer. Employers have to understand their employee. It's good
:44:33. > :44:36.to support people. It's not bad having complete time off. Perhaps
:44:37. > :44:41.getting back to work a little early. Having afternoons off. Being
:44:42. > :44:47.sympathetic. It affects everybody in a different way. It's not always at
:44:48. > :44:55.the time of the event. It can be after. For instance, I've just lost
:44:56. > :44:58.my mother. I'd usually phone her and tell her not to miss the Sunday
:44:59. > :45:04.Politics.. But I can't do that now. Little moments like that you miss.
:45:05. > :45:10.That's when you remember. How clear should this guidance be? If you give
:45:11. > :45:17.people paid leave for this, is it going too far? It can be hard for
:45:18. > :45:21.small businesses. But I want to congratulate you on how far you've
:45:22. > :45:27.got with this campaign. It's important that we talk as a nation
:45:28. > :45:32.about this sort of issue. I think a key issue is flexible working. Lib
:45:33. > :45:37.Dems have been pushing this. Soon we're going to extend it to all
:45:38. > :45:48.people. So you have the right to ask your employer. If you're working,
:45:49. > :45:52.and your life circumstances change ` something that messes up the balance
:45:53. > :45:55.` we want you to be allowed to ask your employer without fear of
:45:56. > :46:05.prejudice. The other side is mental health. Talking about it with your
:46:06. > :46:12.doctor. Not just automatically taking a pill. David Cameron
:46:13. > :46:18.referred to his own experience. He said colleagues covered for him. He
:46:19. > :46:26.said he needed a couple of weeks to stand back, and see where he was.
:46:27. > :46:31.But it can come completely out of the blue. It could be more than two
:46:32. > :46:36.weeks that you need? I think a good module to compare it to is paternity
:46:37. > :46:42.leave. You don't have to take it all in one go. Some people find they
:46:43. > :46:46.need to go back to work straightaway, to get their mind off
:46:47. > :46:52.it. But it doesn't matter with grief. It will affect you at some
:46:53. > :47:02.point. Six months down the line people can think you'll be over it.
:47:03. > :47:05.But that's a crucial time. You should be able to go to your
:47:06. > :47:10.employer and say you're not doing very well. Can you help? Sadly, they
:47:11. > :47:16.might turn around and say they can't. That's why it's so important
:47:17. > :47:20.to have it legislated. People of the future can hopefully take the time
:47:21. > :47:26.off because they're entitled to it. It's good to have you back. Give us
:47:27. > :47:30.some news! I remember you saying one of your family members was a
:47:31. > :47:37.Suffragette. Absolutely! It's in my blood! You'll be going back until
:47:38. > :47:43.they sort it out? I will keep chipping away, even if it takes the
:47:44. > :47:46.rest of my life. Super. This week, the Home Affairs Select
:47:47. > :47:48.Committee announced it was launching an investigation into female genital
:47:49. > :47:56.mutilation to establish why there have been no prosecutions in the UK.
:47:57. > :47:59.This is despite the fact that tens of thousands of women are reckoned
:48:00. > :48:03.to have suffered the 'cutting' and 'stitching' that until now has been
:48:04. > :48:18.more common in African and Middle Eastern countries. The victims could
:48:19. > :48:23.be closer than we might think. FGM has been illegal in the UK since
:48:24. > :48:29.1985. Despite that, it's estimated 20,000 girls could fall victim every
:48:30. > :48:35.year. The NHS says it is happening here, in places like Crawley,
:48:36. > :48:41.Reading, Slough and Oxford. I was nine. I was approached by my nanny.
:48:42. > :48:49.She said there is something I have to tell you, that you need to do. I
:48:50. > :48:55.was imagining how deformed I might be... What Abigail was told to do to
:48:56. > :49:09.herself as a child in Zimbabwe is one of the least severe forms of
:49:10. > :49:18.FGM. I remember the pain. I said I'm not going to do this. Even if it
:49:19. > :49:24.means she might get angry. It was so painful. FGM has come to the UK with
:49:25. > :49:36.migrant communities. It's prevalent in Africa, the Middle East and Asia.
:49:37. > :49:39.Abigail believes local` level campaigning is key, and focuses her
:49:40. > :49:51.efforts on Oxfordshire. Some people think it still has to be passed on.
:49:52. > :50:00.They think it is culture. But it is just a habit certain people have
:50:01. > :50:05.accepted, despite its dangers. An NHS video explains some of the
:50:06. > :50:11.effects. The procedures are generally not done by medical
:50:12. > :50:26.personnel. They're done in unsterile, unsanitary conditions.
:50:27. > :50:29.There is damage to genital organs and surrounding organs. It can lead
:50:30. > :50:32.to infection. It can also cause damage to pregnancies and have
:50:33. > :50:39.long`term emotional distress. Some people are always mentally affected
:50:40. > :50:48.because of what they went through. People caught practising face a
:50:49. > :50:54.fine, or 14 years in prison. But there's never yet been a successful
:50:55. > :51:01.prosecution. In the last four years, Thames Valley Police has recorded a
:51:02. > :51:04.grand total of nine cases. It will be made a priority in the
:51:05. > :51:11.forthcoming update of the area's crime plan. I'm worried about it in
:51:12. > :51:18.certain communities. It's high time we had a prosecution. But it's very
:51:19. > :51:23.difficult. Other organisations like the NHS have to come forward, report
:51:24. > :51:27.things and help. We won't find it ourselves. The government has its
:51:28. > :51:31.own action plan. It includes this statement, for girls to carry with
:51:32. > :51:40.them, and a ?50,000 fund to support victims. If the government work with
:51:41. > :51:49.communities, it will be easy to put in place procedures. They will know
:51:50. > :52:01.where to go. They will know they are in safe hands. For now, FGM remains
:52:02. > :52:07.a devastating, but hidden crime. It is not a medical procedure. It
:52:08. > :52:17.doesn't add any value to any woman's life. It is child abuse. Violence
:52:18. > :52:20.against women. You've got to wonder why any parent thinks that's the
:52:21. > :52:29.right thing for their children. Abigail was nine years old. It
:52:30. > :52:38.happens to up to 98% of some girls in some countries. Is it a mistake
:52:39. > :52:45.about fertility... Something like that? It's horrific. It doesn't add,
:52:46. > :52:50.in any way, to the health of women. Unlike male circumcision, which can
:52:51. > :53:01.sometimes help. It's a key point. It's cultural. With circumcision,
:53:02. > :53:12.some doctors would disagree. It's not a direct parallel? Absolutely
:53:13. > :53:20.not. But we are committed to getting rid of FGM. Not just at home but
:53:21. > :53:25.abroad as well. That's tough talk. It will take a lot of coordination.
:53:26. > :53:30.Is it right that we try to tell another culture... Yes. These are
:53:31. > :53:41.people who live in places like Oxfordshire. We've set up a
:53:42. > :53:50.multi`agency hub ` we've got police, social workers... All working
:53:51. > :53:55.together. We want to stop this. We need to make sure schools are aware
:53:56. > :54:05.of what the signs are so they can alert people. This is a barbaric
:54:06. > :54:19.thing. We've got to do something. It's illegal. Confidentiality in the
:54:20. > :54:28.NHS ` we may have to look at that. We have to protect people. Social
:54:29. > :54:41.workers are being trained. School teachers as well. It has to be
:54:42. > :54:46.stopped. It can't go on. This is why I'm so disturbed by cuts in local
:54:47. > :54:53.government. Early Intervention Centres are looking for this type of
:54:54. > :54:57.abuse. It's not just about a campaign to make people aware. It's
:54:58. > :55:08.about having professionals able to deal with it. We can't tackle this
:55:09. > :55:15.just in England. It has to be an international level, with
:55:16. > :55:23.cooperation. Most of the governments we work with also have laws against
:55:24. > :55:28.it. Prosecution would send a wider message, to say we won't tolerate
:55:29. > :55:31.it? In this country it's illegal. Ideally, you don't want to
:55:32. > :55:42.prosecute. You want it stopped altogether. It can't be acceptable.
:55:43. > :55:51.Everybody has to be alert. The multi`agency hub is looking for
:55:52. > :56:04.signs. It's still a priority despite the budget cuts. Yes. Thank you.
:56:05. > :56:14.Time now for our regular round up of the political week in the South.
:56:15. > :56:17.Plenty on the menu. It was revealed that Dorset school meals are being
:56:18. > :56:21.transported 200 miles each day from Nottingham. Dorset County Council
:56:22. > :56:26.say they had some reservations about a long`distance contract, but insist
:56:27. > :56:29.it's working. At off`licences in Portsmouth, super
:56:30. > :56:35.strength cider and beer has been taken off the shelves. The voluntary
:56:36. > :56:39.initiative to cut down on drunkenness is a joint plan between
:56:40. > :56:42.the council and police. It's not just about dealing with the cause
:56:43. > :56:47.but also offering those with alcohol dependency other areas for support.
:56:48. > :56:53.A u`turn on Ghurkha pensions meant this man from Reading got his first
:56:54. > :56:56.food in two weeks. He stopped his hunger strike when a government
:56:57. > :57:00.inquiry was announced. Finally, New Forest MP Julian Lewis
:57:01. > :57:05.made a meal of his question to the Prime Minister ` insisting Lib Dems
:57:06. > :57:08.must not veto new nuclear weapons. I don't think I would satisfy my
:57:09. > :57:18.friend completely, even if I gave him a nuclear submarine to park off
:57:19. > :57:27.the coast of his constituency. He's asked used that joke before... It's
:57:28. > :57:37.a good joke! Plenty to get your teeth into. This school meals story
:57:38. > :57:44.is remarkable. What happens in Oxfordshire? There's a scheme going
:57:45. > :57:52.on which revolves around local produce. That's important. To bring
:57:53. > :57:55.it from Nottingham... There are a lot of food miles involved there.
:57:56. > :58:03.But you've got to get the best value? We have a policy coming in
:58:04. > :58:16.that five to seven year olds will get free school meals. It's a nice
:58:17. > :58:30.policy but over the years there are a lot of schools that don't have
:58:31. > :58:37.kitchens. Will there be the funding? It would be better if it was local.
:58:38. > :58:42.My constituents care about green issues. The more people having these
:58:43. > :58:51.meals, the more likelihood there is we can come together. If you don't
:58:52. > :58:59.get money for capital investment, will it be a struggle? Yes. It could
:59:00. > :59:19.result in cuts in other services. Rubbish! If it's not fully funded,
:59:20. > :59:28.there's a direct linkage. We would have to pick up the tab. Will the
:59:29. > :59:32.Lib Dems provide all the funding so it can be cooked on the premises? I
:59:33. > :59:40.think you're putting the cart before the horse. ?400 a year is a good
:59:41. > :59:49.amount of money for a lot of people. It destigmatises school meals. It's
:59:50. > :59:57.a good policy. As long as it's fully funded. Thank you for your
:59:58. > :00:03.contribution. Thanks to my guests Layla Moran and
:00:04. > :00:10.Ian Hudspeth. Here's the link to my blog. For now, back to Andrew.
:00:11. > :00:14.those people who want to cycle. We will be returning to this one. Thank
:00:15. > :00:24.you. A little bit of history was made at
:00:25. > :00:29.Prime Minister's Questions this week. A teensy tiny bit. It wasn't
:00:30. > :00:32.David Cameron accusing one MP of taking "mind-altering substances" -
:00:33. > :00:36.they're always accusing each other of doing that. No, it was the first
:00:37. > :00:38.time a Prime Minister used a live tweet sent from someone watching the
:00:39. > :00:47.session as ammunition at the dispatch box. Let's have a look We
:00:48. > :00:54.have had some interesting interventions from front edges past
:00:55. > :00:58.and present. I hope I can break records by explaining that a tweet
:00:59. > :01:02.has just come in from Tony McNulty, the former Labour security
:01:03. > :01:07.minister, saying that the public are desperate for a PM in waiting who
:01:08. > :01:12.speaks for them, not a Leader of the Opposition in dodging in partisan
:01:13. > :01:16.Westminster Village knock about So I would stay up with the tweets if
:01:17. > :01:21.you want to get on the right side of this one! We are working on how the
:01:22. > :01:25.Prime Minister managed to get that wheat in the first place. What did
:01:26. > :01:31.you think when you saw it being read out? I was certainly watching the
:01:32. > :01:36.Daily Politics. I almost fell off my chair! It was quite astonishing He
:01:37. > :01:41.didn't answer the question - he didn't do that the whole time. But I
:01:42. > :01:46.stand by what the tweets said. I have tweeted for a long time on
:01:47. > :01:52.PMQs. Normally I am praising Ed Miliband to the hilt, but no one
:01:53. > :01:56.announces that in Parliament! Because the Prime Minister picked up
:01:57. > :02:01.on what you said, it unleashed some attacks on you from the Labour side.
:02:02. > :02:05.It did, minor attacks from some very junior people. Most people were
:02:06. > :02:11.supportive of what I said. They took issue with the notion of not doing
:02:12. > :02:16.it until 12:30pm, when it wasn't available for the other side to use.
:02:17. > :02:21.Instant history, and instantly forgettable, I would say. Do you
:02:22. > :02:25.think you have started a bit of a trend? I hope not, because the
:02:26. > :02:35.dumbing down of PMQs is already on its way. Most people tweet like mad
:02:36. > :02:38.through PMQs! Is a measure of how post-modern we have become, we have
:02:39. > :02:45.journalists tweeting about someone talking about a tweet. That is the
:02:46. > :02:48.level of British politics. I am horrified by this development. The
:02:49. > :02:54.whole of modern life has become about observing people -- people
:02:55. > :03:00.observing themselves doing things. Do we know what happened? Somebody
:03:01. > :03:04.is monitoring the tweets on behalf of the Prime Minister or the Tory
:03:05. > :03:09.party. They see Tony's tweet. They then print it out and give it to
:03:10. > :03:13.him? There was a suggestion that Michael Goves had spotted it, but
:03:14. > :03:23.Craig Oliver from the BBC had this great sort of... Craig Oliver was
:03:24. > :03:28.holding up his iPad to take pictures of the Prime Minister, which he then
:03:29. > :03:32.tweeted, from the Prime Minister. People will now be tweeting in the
:03:33. > :03:38.hope that they will be quoted by the Prime Minister, or the Leader of the
:03:39. > :03:43.Opposition. I wasn't doing that I'm just talking about the monster you
:03:44. > :03:49.have unleashed! I hope it dies a miserable death. I think Tony is a
:03:50. > :03:58.good analysis -- a good analyst of PMQs on Twitter. Moving onto the
:03:59. > :04:07.Co-op. You were a Co-op-backed MP, white you? I was a Co-op party
:04:08. > :04:11.member. There are two issues here about the Co-op and the Labour
:04:12. > :04:16.Party. All the new music suggests that the Co-op will now have to
:04:17. > :04:21.start pulling back from lending or donating to the Labour Party, which,
:04:22. > :04:24.at a time when Mr Miliband is going through changes that are going to
:04:25. > :04:29.cut of the union funds, it seems quite dangerous. There are three
:04:30. > :04:33.things going on. There's the relationship that the party has
:04:34. > :04:39.politically with the Co-op party, there is the commercial relationship
:04:40. > :04:42.you referred to, and then there is this enquiry into the comings and
:04:43. > :04:50.goings of Flowers and everybody else. The Tories, at their peril,
:04:51. > :04:54.will mix the three up. There's a lot of things going on with a bang.
:04:55. > :04:59.Labour has some issues around funding generally, and they are
:05:00. > :05:07.potentially exacerbated by the Co-op issue. The Labour Party gets soft
:05:08. > :05:14.loans from the Co-op bank, and it gets donations. ?800,000 last year.
:05:15. > :05:18.Ed Balls got about ?50,000 for his private office. You get the feeling,
:05:19. > :05:23.given the state of the Co-operative Bank now, that that money could dry
:05:24. > :05:28.up. We will see. There's lots of speculation in the papers today At
:05:29. > :05:33.the core, the relationship between the Co-op party and the Labour Party
:05:34. > :05:37.is a proud one, and a legitimate one. I don't think others always
:05:38. > :05:43.understand that. Here is an even bigger issue. Is it not possible
:05:44. > :05:50.that the Co-op bank will cease to exist in any meaningful way as a
:05:51. > :06:01.Co-op bank? Is the bane out means it is 70% owned -- the bail out means
:06:02. > :06:06.that it is 70% owned, or 35% going to a hedge fund, I think I read
:06:07. > :06:10.Yes, there is a move from the mutualism of the Co-op. But don t
:06:11. > :06:21.confuse the Co-op bank with the Co-op Group. Others have done that.
:06:22. > :06:29.I haven't. Here's the rub. The soft loans that Labour gets. They got
:06:30. > :06:38.?1.2 million from this. And 2.4 million. They are secured against
:06:39. > :06:44.future union membership fees of the party. What is Mr Miliband doing? He
:06:45. > :06:48.is trying to end that? You have this very difficult confluence of events,
:06:49. > :06:53.which is, could these wonderful soft loans that Labour has had from the
:06:54. > :06:58.Co-op, could they be going? And these union reforms, where Ed
:06:59. > :07:03.Miliband is trying to create a link between individuals and donations to
:07:04. > :07:07.the Labour Party... Clearly, there could be real financial difficulties
:07:08. > :07:11.here. The government needs to be careful, because George Osborne
:07:12. > :07:14.launched one of his classic blunderbuss operations this week,
:07:15. > :07:21.which is that the Labour Party is to blame for Paul Flowers' private
:07:22. > :07:28.life. No, it's not. And that all the problems, essentially... Look at
:07:29. > :07:32.what George Osborne was doing in Europe. He was trying to change the
:07:33. > :07:37.capital requirement rules that would make it easier for the Co-op to take
:07:38. > :07:40.over Lloyd's. If there is to be a big investigation, George Osborne
:07:41. > :07:45.needs to be careful of what he wishes for. This is another example
:07:46. > :07:49.of the Westminster consensus. All of the Westminster parties were in
:07:50. > :07:54.favour of the Britannia takeover. This is how the Co-op ended up with
:07:55. > :07:58.all this toxic rubbish on its balance sheet. All the major parties
:07:59. > :08:01.were in favour of going to get the Lloyds branches. The Tories tried to
:08:02. > :08:09.outdo Labour in being more pro-Co-op. There was nobody in
:08:10. > :08:15.Westminster saying, hold on, this doesn't work. It is like the
:08:16. > :08:20.financial bubble all over again Everyone was in favour of that at
:08:21. > :08:24.the time. I think there is no evidence so far that the storm is
:08:25. > :08:28.cutting through to the average voter. If I were Ed Miliband, I
:08:29. > :08:33.would let it die a natural death. I would not write to an editorial
:08:34. > :08:39.column for a national newspaper on a Sunday. That keeps the issue alive,
:08:40. > :08:46.and it makes him look oversensitive and much better at dishing it out
:08:47. > :08:50.than taking it. I agree about that. The Labour press team tweeted this
:08:51. > :09:00.week saying that it was a new low for the times. And this was
:09:01. > :09:06.re-tweeted by Ed Miliband. It isn't a great press attitude. It is very
:09:07. > :09:11.Moni. Bill Clinton went out there and fought and made the case. So did
:09:12. > :09:17.Tony Blair. If you just say, they are being horrible to us, it looks
:09:18. > :09:23.pathetic. And it will cut through on Osborne and the financial
:09:24. > :09:32.dimensional is, not political. I shall tweet that later! While we
:09:33. > :09:38.have been talking, Mr Miliband has been on Desert Island Discs. He
:09:39. > :09:46.might still be on it. Let's have a listen to what he had to say.
:09:47. > :09:57.# Take on me, take me on. # And threw it all, she offers me
:09:58. > :10:09.protection. # A lot of love and affection.
:10:10. > :10:25.# Whether I'm right or wrong #. # Je Ne Regrette Rien. #.
:10:26. > :10:31.Obviously, that was the music that Ed Miliband chose. Who thought -
:10:32. > :10:40.you would have thought he would choose Norman Lamont's theme tune!
:10:41. > :10:51.He chose Jerusalem... He has no classical background at all. He had
:10:52. > :10:59.no Beethoven, no Elgar. David Cameron had Mendelssohn. And Ernie,
:11:00. > :11:10.the fastest Notman in the West. -- fastest milkman. Tony Blair chose
:11:11. > :11:13.the theme tune to a movie. Tony Blair's list was chosen by young
:11:14. > :11:24.staffers in his office. It absolutely was. Tony Blair's list
:11:25. > :11:27.was chosen by staff. The Ed Miliband this was clearly chosen by himself,
:11:28. > :11:38.because who would allow politician to go out there and say that they
:11:39. > :11:42.like Aha. I am the same age as Ed Miliband, and of course he likes
:11:43. > :11:53.Aha. That was the tumour was played in the 80s. Sweet Caroline. It is
:11:54. > :12:01.Angels by Robbie Williams. I was 14-year-old girl when that came out.
:12:02. > :12:08.I thought Angels was the staple of hen nights and chucking out time in
:12:09. > :12:12.pubs. The really good thing about his list is that the Smiths to not
:12:13. > :12:17.appear. The Smiths were all over David Cameron's list. The absolutely
:12:18. > :12:26.miserable music of Morris he was not there. What was his luxury? And
:12:27. > :12:33.Indian takeaway! Again, chosen for political reasons. I would agree
:12:34. > :12:41.with the panel about Aha, but I would expect -- I would respect his
:12:42. > :12:45.right to choose. Have you been on Desert Island Discs? I have. It took
:12:46. > :12:50.me three weeks to choose the music. It was the most difficult decision
:12:51. > :12:55.in my life. What was the most embarrassing thing you chose? I
:12:56. > :13:00.didn't choose anything embarrassing. I chose Beethoven, Elgar, and some
:13:01. > :13:13.proper modern jazz. Anything from the modern era? Pet Shop Boys.
:13:14. > :13:16.That's all for today. The Daily Politics will be on BBC Two at
:13:17. > :13:20.lunchtime every day next week, and we'll be back here on BBC One at
:13:21. > :13:22.11am next week. My luxury, by the way, was a wind-up radio! Remember,
:13:23. > :13:30.if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.