:00:36. > :00:41.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. The unions helped
:00:42. > :00:45.him beat his brother to the top. Now Ed Miliband wants to change Labour's
:00:46. > :00:49.relationship with them. Who will come out on top? We will be asking
:00:50. > :00:51.one union baron what he thinks. Cracks in the coalition after
:00:52. > :00:56.Education Secretary Michael Gove sacks the chairwoman of Ofsted. His
:00:57. > :00:59.Lib Dem deputy is said to be hopping mad. We will be talking to the new
:01:00. > :01:03.deputy leader of the Lib Dems, Malcolm Bruce.
:01:04. > :01:05.Caught a bout of the EU blues? David Cameron has been drowning his
:01:06. > :01:09.sorrows with the President of France. Who better? We will be
:01:10. > :01:12.asking if the EU referendum bill is dead in the water.
:01:13. > :01:16.And bad weather getting you down? Getting from A to B a bit of a
:01:17. > :01:18.nightmare? Fear not! The leader of the Greens will be here with her
:01:19. > :01:26.traffic and travel report. Dutch 20 47 consultant care, this hospital
:01:27. > :01:46.among only a handful reassurance people want?
:01:47. > :01:50.Yes, all that and more in today s action-packed Sunday Politics. And
:01:51. > :01:56.blowing more hot air than I have had hot dinners, Helen Lewis, Nick Watt
:01:57. > :01:58.and Iain Martin. After the row about candidate
:01:59. > :02:01.selection in Falkirk, Ed Miliband said he wanted to reshape the
:02:02. > :02:05.relationship between Labour and the unions. The biggest changes involve
:02:06. > :02:10.union membership of the party, which in turn will affect future Labour
:02:11. > :02:15.leadership elections. Some claim this is Ed's Clause 4 moment. But
:02:16. > :02:18.the unions will continue to be powerful at conference and on the
:02:19. > :02:22.party's ruling committees, and they will still be able to bankroll the
:02:23. > :02:31.election campaign. Here is Labour's deputy leader, Harriet Harman,
:02:32. > :02:35.speaking earlier. What he is proposing for the March the 1st
:02:36. > :02:39.conference is a huge change in financing, in the election of the
:02:40. > :02:44.leader, in what goes on at local level. In due course, it might have
:02:45. > :02:48.implications for the NEC elections and conference. But this is already
:02:49. > :02:51.a big issue to take forward. Joining me now is Paul Kenny,
:02:52. > :03:01.general secretary of the GMB union and chair of the Trade Union and
:03:02. > :03:07.Labour Party Liaison Organisation. Is this Ed Miliband's Clause 4
:03:08. > :03:12.moment? I don't know about that It is certainly a bold move,
:03:13. > :03:16.particularly to have an electoral college, which as you said was the
:03:17. > :03:22.system which elected him in the first place. Everybody admits that
:03:23. > :03:27.has needed reforming for some time. Moving to a one member, one vote
:03:28. > :03:35.situation seems to me to be sensible. I know some people are
:03:36. > :03:39.upset, mostly MPs, who will lose their golden share. But it is
:03:40. > :03:48.nonsense that one MP should have the same vote as 1000 party members So
:03:49. > :03:59.the MPs have lost out. Have the unions lost out? Well, the system is
:04:00. > :04:03.currently that union members get a ballot paper, but they have to
:04:04. > :04:08.declare that they are a Labour supporter and they have to sign to
:04:09. > :04:14.that effect in order to participate. Then their vote is counted. At the
:04:15. > :04:18.last election, about 200,000 trade union members gave that indication,
:04:19. > :04:25.and they participated in that way. That will not change. The way it is
:04:26. > :04:30.organised will be different. The big change in the electoral college is
:04:31. > :04:37.that the logical weight given to MPs will disappear. I wonder if you have
:04:38. > :04:40.really lost anything. At the moment, there are about 3 million people
:04:41. > :04:46.automatically affiliated from the unions to the Labour Party. If only
:04:47. > :04:51.10% of them opt in, that will still mean twice as many union individual
:04:52. > :04:59.members, 300,000, versus about 180,000 Labour Party members. So
:05:00. > :05:03.union members and maybe even the unions will have as big an influence
:05:04. > :05:09.on the leadership elections as you do now, maybe bigger? Well, they are
:05:10. > :05:14.individual votes. Different unions support different candidates. It is
:05:15. > :05:20.lost in the media myth of barons and block votes, but there is an
:05:21. > :05:24.individual vote. Different unions recommend different candidates, and
:05:25. > :05:29.union members vote accordingly. Ed Miliband won more individual votes
:05:30. > :05:36.by a country mile than David, but it got messed up in the process of this
:05:37. > :05:40.electoral college. As I have understood the proposals so far
:05:41. > :05:48.they are not a done deal. There is a lot of discussion. But it seems
:05:49. > :05:51.there are three hurdles. Firstly, union members themselves will have
:05:52. > :05:55.to agree whether they want to affiliate to the Labour Party. If
:05:56. > :06:01.they don't, the rest of it falls. If they decide they do my they will ask
:06:02. > :06:05.union members to support that an individual basis the next five
:06:06. > :06:10.years, which will have financial implications. Then there will be a
:06:11. > :06:14.third position, which is that people who may want to agree with the
:06:15. > :06:18.union's position and affiliate with the Labour Party may want to go
:06:19. > :06:21.further and become active supporters of the Labour Party, participating
:06:22. > :06:27.in leadership elections. They will have to give their sanction to that
:06:28. > :06:30.at a third stage. So the implications in terms of
:06:31. > :06:37.constituency parties and so on are a lot less than the idea that the 3
:06:38. > :06:41.million who are currently affiliated will change. At the moment, the
:06:42. > :06:47.unions, because of the automatic affiliation, hand over a affiliation
:06:48. > :06:51.fees of about ?8 million a year to Labour. You will now get to keep
:06:52. > :06:59.that money, because the individuals will have to put up the money
:07:00. > :07:02.themselves. You can keep that money and determine if you give it to
:07:03. > :07:07.Labour to fight the election campaign, correct? Incorrect.
:07:08. > :07:11.Firstly, the affiliation fees are paid from what is called the
:07:12. > :07:16.political fund, which most unions have to set up in order to
:07:17. > :07:22.participate. The union will continue to pay the ?3 a affiliation fee for
:07:23. > :07:31.those members who want the union to be affiliated. But you get to keep a
:07:32. > :07:36.lot more money. In reality, we will see a transitional period of a few
:07:37. > :07:43.years. Less people will probably say yes, depending on how popular Labour
:07:44. > :07:47.are, about whether they want the union to give money to the Labour
:07:48. > :08:02.Party. The GMB has already done this. By the way, don't call me
:08:03. > :08:05.kneel. It is Andrew or Mr Neil. The unions will have a bigger chunk of
:08:06. > :08:09.money because the unions will not be handing over all of the money at one
:08:10. > :08:13.time. But you could still play a major part in funding the Labour
:08:14. > :08:19.election campaign. We'll how much you give the dependent on what the
:08:20. > :08:27.Labour Party puts in its manifesto? Of course it will. It will have to
:08:28. > :08:32.justify our support to Labour for the members who provide money to the
:08:33. > :08:36.political fund. If we did not argue for the cert is social justice
:08:37. > :08:40.campaigns and laws we want to see, we would be failing in our job. I
:08:41. > :08:44.don't intend to hide that from anybody. The unions are there to
:08:45. > :08:51.fight for their members. That is our job. So you will still be a major
:08:52. > :08:55.part of the bankroll of the Labour campaign. You will still have 5 % of
:08:56. > :08:59.the votes at a Labour conference, and you will still have a major part
:09:00. > :09:03.in the Labour National executive committee and the policy committee.
:09:04. > :09:13.It is right to say the unions are still at the heart of Labour, are
:09:14. > :09:15.they not? Well, if you sick to break the affiliated link between trade
:09:16. > :09:21.unions and the Labour Party, the whole thing collapses. That is what
:09:22. > :09:25.anchors the Labour Party as far as we are concerned. Many of our
:09:26. > :09:30.members think that when they want to look for ferrochrome and rights
:09:31. > :09:32.social justice, housing and the health service, Labour are better it
:09:33. > :09:37.quipped to deliver that for working people than the current parties
:09:38. > :09:42.That is why we have traditionally supported them. But not at all of
:09:43. > :09:48.our members support Labour, which is why we don't affiliate all of them
:09:49. > :09:52.to Labour. There are over 30 million people in the British labour force
:09:53. > :10:03.now. Union membership is only 6 5 million out of that 30. A 6.5% of
:10:04. > :10:09.that do not vote Labour, they vote Tory or liberal or nationalist in
:10:10. > :10:16.Scotland. So you are a relatively small pressure group. Why should
:10:17. > :10:20.Labour be in thrall to you? We are the biggest voluntary organisation
:10:21. > :10:26.in this country. Sorry about that, but that is the fact. People make
:10:27. > :10:29.conscious choices. My own union the GMB, has been growing for eight
:10:30. > :10:35.years. So this dying picture you are trying to paint... In terms of
:10:36. > :10:39.accounting for the fact that some do not support Labour, that is why
:10:40. > :10:47.unions do not affiliate all of their members to the Labour Party. We have
:10:48. > :10:51.adjusted to that. If you don't like being called Neil, I don't like
:10:52. > :10:59.being called a barren either. What about Mr Baron? I don't like that
:11:00. > :11:01.either. We are representatives of working organisations. It may be
:11:02. > :11:06.inconvenient for politicians to have to listen to working people, but we
:11:07. > :11:14.will continue to press. Lord Baron, thank you very much.
:11:15. > :11:18.So, is this a Clause 4 moment for Ed Miliband? Not really, but to his
:11:19. > :11:21.credit, he is going ahead with this. There was a point at which it looked
:11:22. > :11:26.as though Ed Miliband would back away from reform. To his credit he
:11:27. > :11:31.is trying to create a mass membership party again. But when it
:11:32. > :11:34.comes to the crucial business of funding a general election campaign,
:11:35. > :11:41.these reforms will make Labour more reliant on large donations from
:11:42. > :11:45.trade unions. They could have more power now, because they get to hold
:11:46. > :11:51.back this money, whereas beforehand, they had to hand it over
:11:52. > :11:58.automatically. As Mr Kenny just said, how much they handover will be
:11:59. > :12:02.dependent on good behaviour. Yes, but these are pragmatic reforms The
:12:03. > :12:05.fact that Ed Miliband has a lot of capital in not being seen as a
:12:06. > :12:09.Blairite has helped him get these through . The response has been
:12:10. > :12:14.muted, which suggests good party management on his behalf. That may
:12:15. > :12:17.be because they will still have 50% of the votes at a party conference.
:12:18. > :12:21.Mr Kenny was clear that that could be deal-breaker if they tried to
:12:22. > :12:27.take that away. They have more places at the NEC than anyone else,
:12:28. > :12:32.and party members, if only 10% of them signed up, they will outweigh
:12:33. > :12:37.individual members in the constituencies. It was interesting,
:12:38. > :12:40.how relaxed Paul Kenny was. He was taking thousands of pounds from the
:12:41. > :12:43.Labour Party a few months ago because he was annoyed about these
:12:44. > :12:48.reforms, and now he is relaxed because they still have 50% of the
:12:49. > :12:51.vote at Labour Party conference and Labour Party Parliamentary
:12:52. > :12:55.candidates are still selected in the same way. But there is a simple
:12:56. > :12:59.point here. Yes, you can pick apart what Ed Miliband said and said the
:13:00. > :13:04.unions have too much influence, but the only way he could have gone all
:13:05. > :13:08.the way was to break the link with the trade unions, and he was not
:13:09. > :13:12.going to do that. It was not the Labour Party that founded the
:13:13. > :13:19.unions, it was the unions that founded the Labour Party. Even Tony
:13:20. > :13:23.Blair did not break the link. In that context, Ed Miliband has gone
:13:24. > :13:27.incredibly far. For the last 50 years, this opting into the union,
:13:28. > :13:31.you have to turn to page 50 of your union terms and conditions to say,
:13:32. > :13:35.do you want to opt out of the political levy 's that is going to
:13:36. > :13:42.go, which will mean that when the next Labour leader is elected from
:13:43. > :13:45.the union votes, they will get their ballot from the Labour Party and you
:13:46. > :13:50.will append the fast where ballots went out from Unison macro and GMB
:13:51. > :13:56.with a picture of Ed Miliband on the front of the ballot paper saying,
:13:57. > :14:00.vote for aid. They were Stasi and Saddam Hussein ways of trade union
:14:01. > :14:05.members electing the Labour leader, which will go. I am sorry his
:14:06. > :14:09.Lordship is not still here to answer that question.
:14:10. > :14:13.HMS Coalition is not a happy ship. The lovey-dovey days in the rose
:14:14. > :14:16.garden are long gone. It is not a loveless marriage, perhaps even an
:14:17. > :14:19.open one. The latest split is over the decision by Education Secretary
:14:20. > :14:22.Michael Gove to replace Labour peer Sally Morgan as head of the schools
:14:23. > :14:25.inspectorate, Ofsted. Mr Gove's deputy, Lib Dem David Laws, is said
:14:26. > :14:30.to be spitting blood about her removal, although only through
:14:31. > :14:35.surrogates. He has not said a word on the record. Here was the
:14:36. > :14:46.Education Secretary a little earlier. If there is another
:14:47. > :14:51.opportunity for Sally to serve in a different role at a different time,
:14:52. > :14:55.then I would be delighted to support her in the role which she thinks it
:14:56. > :14:58.is appropriate to do. There is nothing wrong with Sally but there
:14:59. > :15:03.is a principle across government that there should be no automatic
:15:04. > :15:08.reappointment, and that after three or four years, it is appropriate to
:15:09. > :15:13.bring in a fresh pair of eyes. That is good corporate practice in order
:15:14. > :15:21.to ensure that you refresh boards, bring a new perspective, and have
:15:22. > :15:24.tough questions asked. We're joined now by the newly elected deputy
:15:25. > :15:28.leader of the Liberal Democrats Malcolm Bruce. He's in Aberdeen
:15:29. > :15:35.Welcome to the Sunday Politics. David Laws is said to be furious
:15:36. > :15:39.with Michael Gove, is he? I think he is because Sally Morgan has been
:15:40. > :15:44.doing a good job and that has been generally agreed across the whole
:15:45. > :15:47.spectrum. I think Ofsted is an impartial body that inspects all
:15:48. > :15:53.schools and it shouldn't be subject to some kind of political direction.
:15:54. > :15:57.That is the concern, that she is being removed when she was doing a
:15:58. > :16:01.good job and most people thought she should be reappointed. It is
:16:02. > :16:14.strongly rumoured her successor will be a high-ranking Tory backer. Why
:16:15. > :16:20.hasn't David Laws said this himself, have you spoken to him? I have, and
:16:21. > :16:25.I know he is not very pleased about it but he will want to speak to
:16:26. > :16:30.Michael Gove himself when he gets to see him on Monday. The question you
:16:31. > :16:35.have to take on board is that David Laws is the schools minister,
:16:36. > :16:39.effectively the one who has engagement with Ofsted, and he is
:16:40. > :16:44.seeing it being undermined by the Secretary of State. There is a
:16:45. > :16:48.question that if Michael Gove is so pleased with Sally Morgan why is he
:16:49. > :16:53.replacing her, and who will he be replacing her with, and on what
:16:54. > :16:57.basis? Maybe parliament should have a confirmation hearing so that we
:16:58. > :17:06.can be assured that whoever is put in charge is there because they are
:17:07. > :17:11.good at it. Why has he licensed his surrogates to save this rather than
:17:12. > :17:16.saying it himself? He didn't, he knew I was on the programme this
:17:17. > :17:24.morning so I am giving you the answers as best I can. David is
:17:25. > :17:30.perfectly capable of speaking for himself. He hasn't so far. You asked
:17:31. > :17:35.me to come on this programme and David was anxious for me to know he
:17:36. > :17:40.wasn't happy about it, and I can certainly tell you that. I can also
:17:41. > :17:43.give you my own opinion which is that Ofsted is not the Department
:17:44. > :17:51.for Education, it is an independent body. The question you have to ask
:17:52. > :17:57.is will Michael Gove but someone in charge of Ofsted who will have a
:17:58. > :18:02.political agenda? If so, that is not what Ofsted should be used for.
:18:03. > :18:14.Let's move on to your own position. You are 69, white male,
:18:15. > :18:19.middle-class, what is your answer to the party with diversity problems? I
:18:20. > :18:23.don't think that is what they voted on. They felt I had a wealth of
:18:24. > :18:27.experience that would be vulnerable to the party from the period now
:18:28. > :18:30.until the election, not least because the central issues that will
:18:31. > :18:37.concern voters are the economy, and I have a track record of promoting
:18:38. > :18:43.the party's economic policy over many years. But you are not even
:18:44. > :18:47.standing at the next election. No, but we need to get to the next
:18:48. > :18:59.election and my colleagues have confidence that I can do a useful
:19:00. > :19:02.job for the party in that situation. We have developed and delivered
:19:03. > :19:04.policies that I have helped to shape and I want to persuade people to
:19:05. > :19:07.understand the Liberal Democrats have made a fundamental difference
:19:08. > :19:12.to the economic recovery. But you know what has been happening with
:19:13. > :19:16.the Liberal Democrats and their problems with women. Wasn't this a
:19:17. > :19:23.chance to select a woman in a major part? You only have seven female MPs
:19:24. > :19:31.out of 57, not a single Lib Dem woman in the Parliament. Again, why
:19:32. > :19:36.you rather than making a break and bringing someone in onto major
:19:37. > :19:43.positions? My colleagues have concluded that the role I am best
:19:44. > :19:49.qualified to do it, that is why they voted for me. We do only have seven
:19:50. > :20:00.women and that is an issue we need to address. Two of those women are
:20:01. > :20:06.ministers, one is a government whip. We seem to have lost our line to
:20:07. > :20:11.Aberdeen, just as Malcolm Bruce was in full flight defending his
:20:12. > :20:17.position. I'm not sure if we can get the line back, just bear with me for
:20:18. > :20:22.a few seconds to see if we can get it. It looks as if we have lost
:20:23. > :20:26.Malcolm Bruce, I do apologise to Malcolm Bruce and the viewers that
:20:27. > :20:34.we were not able to continue that interview.
:20:35. > :20:37.Fierce winds, torrential rain and a tidal surge have brought more misery
:20:38. > :20:40.to thousands. Official records show that southern England has seen the
:20:41. > :20:43.wettest January since records began in 1767. I remember it well. The
:20:44. > :20:48.Somerset Levels have been hit by weeks of flooding, with little
:20:49. > :20:51.respite from relentless rain. And, the residents of one village on the
:20:52. > :20:57.Levels, Muchelney, has been cut off for almost a month. We sent our Adam
:20:58. > :21:16.out with his wellies and a properly filled out risk assessment form The
:21:17. > :21:20.very wet road to Muchelney. This village of about 100 residents has
:21:21. > :21:28.been cut off for about four weeks, and like the weather vane, it feels
:21:29. > :21:34.a little bit spooky. It came up to here and your front door was there.
:21:35. > :21:38.Anita is just relieved the water stopped here, practically on her
:21:39. > :21:45.doorstep. Now it is the practicalities that are the problem.
:21:46. > :21:52.Driving around for food is quite a hassle. You are foraging. It's not
:21:53. > :21:56.as bad as that but we do have a few bits in the vegetable garden still,
:21:57. > :22:01.and we had some nice apples until the rats ate them but we are not
:22:02. > :22:10.doing too badly on that score. It sounds like the medieval! That's
:22:11. > :22:18.what it feels like. Talking of retro, who knew Somerset still had a
:22:19. > :22:24.Coleman, this is Brian's first delivery since Christmas. Everything
:22:25. > :22:28.has gone old-fashioned. We are now talking to neighbours we might never
:22:29. > :22:34.have seen before or spoken to so we are getting to know more people in
:22:35. > :22:38.the village. She's right, there has been an outbreak of Dunkirk spirit,
:22:39. > :22:45.quite literally. The council and the Fire Brigade have put on this boat
:22:46. > :22:54.service to get people to work and school. The church has become an
:22:55. > :23:00.unofficial flood HQ. This is where people pick up their mail, and this
:23:01. > :23:05.is where the people who run the boat stopped for their tea breaks. It all
:23:06. > :23:11.seems quite jolly, if a bit boring, but it is no fun for the homes and
:23:12. > :23:17.businesses that have been inundated, or for the farmers whose land is
:23:18. > :23:20.underwater, an area the size of Bristol, or for the villages which
:23:21. > :23:25.are less isolated but where the flooding is worse. People like the
:23:26. > :23:31.parish chairman are starting to get angry with how the Government has
:23:32. > :23:37.responded. It was all a bit late. We knew what was going to happen with
:23:38. > :23:41.the amount of rain on the fields and the Government was so slow to
:23:42. > :23:45.react. The county council got the boat going quickly but it was
:23:46. > :23:51.another four weeks nearly before the button was pressed for the major
:23:52. > :23:56.incident. Right on cue, the cavalry arrived in the shape of emergency
:23:57. > :24:00.crews from other parts of the UK. The rumour is that they will bring
:24:01. > :24:05.in a hovercraft but the bad news is that the weather is becoming more
:24:06. > :24:11.grim this weekend. There has been a surge in bookings at the campsite
:24:12. > :24:15.where people have seen the Somerset Levels on holiday and would like to
:24:16. > :24:24.come on holiday, if it ever stops raining. I'm delighted to say we
:24:25. > :24:28.have got the line back to Aberdeen, somebody has put a shilling in the
:24:29. > :24:33.meter. We can go back to Malcolm Bruce. We were talking about the Lib
:24:34. > :24:39.Dem women and your election, I suppose the point some people are
:24:40. > :24:47.making is that your party has as many knights in Parliament as it has
:24:48. > :24:54.women and you are one of them. The good news is that for the five MPs
:24:55. > :24:59.who are standing down, who have had candidates elected in their
:25:00. > :25:04.constituencies so far, all five candidates that have been selected
:25:05. > :25:07.are women. We need to fight hard to get behind those women and get them
:25:08. > :25:12.elected so that we have a much better balanced parliament in the
:25:13. > :25:15.future, but given that we have few women, you really have to pick
:25:16. > :25:33.people appropriate for the job and we have appointed the women as I
:25:34. > :25:40.have said but we need our image to be balanced. How many women
:25:41. > :25:47.candidates will there be come the next election? At the moment, 1 ,
:25:48. > :25:50.five more than we have now, and we haven't finished selection. Where
:25:51. > :25:56.there are men sitting and standing again, that is not likely to change,
:25:57. > :26:00.but where they are standing down we are overwhelmingly choosing women,
:26:01. > :26:07.and in my view good and very able women. What I would want to say to
:26:08. > :26:15.people is that if you want to see the Lib Dems have more women, go to
:26:16. > :26:22.those seats and help us hold them. We are told that only 20% of the 57
:26:23. > :26:27.seats have female candidates and in the unlikely event that you were
:26:28. > :26:33.able to hold onto them all, it still wouldn't be a sea change to have
:26:34. > :26:40.20%. The point is you have to build them up. We are supporting female
:26:41. > :26:45.candidates. These are really good candidates who will make first-class
:26:46. > :26:50.MPs and I certainly believe you will gradually see the Liberal Democrats
:26:51. > :26:54.taking them on. We don't have 3 0 seats that we currently hold like
:26:55. > :27:01.other parties, but what I can tell you is that increasing --
:27:02. > :27:07.increasingly we will have female candidates. One newspaper has said
:27:08. > :27:12.that you will deal with the Chris Rennard fallout quickly and
:27:13. > :27:17.privately, what does that mean? It means I will not be telling you
:27:18. > :27:21.because these things are not helped by comments on the airwaves. I hope
:27:22. > :27:25.it will be possible to have a resolution without people going to
:27:26. > :27:29.court but I don't think it helps anybody for me to comment on any
:27:30. > :27:35.aspect of how this will be done and I'm not prepared to do so. If you
:27:36. > :27:43.are not in full possession of the facts, why did you say you will deal
:27:44. > :27:47.with this privately? I have come into this halfway through, I don't
:27:48. > :27:55.have full possession of the facts, I doubt you do, and we have a process
:27:56. > :28:01.that needs to be followed through. Any comments in public do not help.
:28:02. > :28:08.Isn't it hypocrisy of a high order to hear from a party that is
:28:09. > :28:13.constantly calling for transparency in other institutions but when it
:28:14. > :28:17.comes to your own, you say, I am not going to talk about it. There are
:28:18. > :28:22.all sorts of disputes that happen in the world and often people don't
:28:23. > :28:26.talk about them because talking about them aggravates the
:28:27. > :28:30.situation. I believe you have to deal with them privately and I don't
:28:31. > :28:34.think trial by media in this context is helpful and I don't believe that
:28:35. > :28:40.those who choose to make those comments are making it easier to
:28:41. > :28:43.solve them. There are problems in other walks of life and the Liberal
:28:44. > :28:48.Democrats are not the only ones with these problems. We are trying to
:28:49. > :28:53.change that culture and I think we will do it effectively in our own
:28:54. > :29:04.way. We have a pastoral care officer now and I think that is the right
:29:05. > :29:08.way to do it. Thank you for that. Let's now go back to the story of
:29:09. > :29:16.the flooding in Somerset. We are joined by the leader of the Green
:29:17. > :29:21.party, Natalie Bennett in Millbank. Natalie Bennett, don't the Green
:29:22. > :29:29.party bears some responsibility for these floods? You have sided with
:29:30. > :29:34.the Environment Agency in the decision not to dredge rivers and
:29:35. > :29:38.that is one of the reason why these places have been flooded. Firstly I
:29:39. > :29:45.want to give my sympathy to everyone dealing with these floods. The
:29:46. > :29:54.homeowners, the farmers seeing sodden fields for weeks and weeks.
:29:55. > :29:57.We get that, we all have huge sympathy, particularly because so
:29:58. > :30:02.little seems to be done to help them. What is the answer to my
:30:03. > :30:08.question? I think there is strong evidence that dredging is not the
:30:09. > :30:14.answer. If you think about the flow of the river, where the pinch points
:30:15. > :30:19.are is things like bridges, weirs and towns. If you dredge the river
:30:20. > :30:23.in between those barriers, you just make the water faster to those
:30:24. > :30:28.points. The experts are saying that dredging is not the answer, it may
:30:29. > :30:32.be in particular cases, but you have to look at each river system on its
:30:33. > :30:36.own merits and very often the best way of dealing with this is working
:30:37. > :30:39.out ways to slow the watered down and make sure that people don't
:30:40. > :30:48.suffer unduly while you are doing that. The west of England
:30:49. > :30:51.agricultural Society, which I would venture knows more about the
:30:52. > :30:56.Somerset Levels than either of us, has said that without dredging, this
:30:57. > :30:59.was a disaster waiting to happen. The local drainage boards have been
:31:00. > :31:05.calling for years for dredging to be resumed. The National Farmers' Union
:31:06. > :31:09.has called for it, and the chairman of the West Sussex flood defences
:31:10. > :31:11.has called for more drainage, and he is a drainage engineer by
:31:12. > :31:16.profession. So I don't know where your experts are, but the experts on
:31:17. > :31:23.the ground am not the urban ones in London, seem to think this has not
:31:24. > :31:28.been caused, but made worse by the failure of the Environment Agency to
:31:29. > :31:31.continue to dredge. If you look at the example of the planning and
:31:32. > :31:36.climate change coalition, which is led by the town and country planning
:31:37. > :31:39.Association, who you would not describe as a group of radical
:31:40. > :31:44.greens, these people have said we have to look at how we deal with
:31:45. > :31:47.flooding in the future. But not in Somerset. These are the people
:31:48. > :31:51.currently being flooded, not somebody sitting in a quango office
:31:52. > :31:56.in London. They have asked for this to happen and it hasn't, and they
:31:57. > :32:01.are now flooded in definitely. We have to look at what is happening on
:32:02. > :32:05.a case-by-case basis. If you look at Germany, there are many cases there
:32:06. > :32:09.were, to deal with flooding, many farmers are paid to hold water on
:32:10. > :32:13.their land. Maybe we need to introduce those systems, because we
:32:14. > :32:19.have to protect farmland, but we also have to protect urban areas for
:32:20. > :32:27.safety. We saw a horrible flood in Wales were lines were endangered --
:32:28. > :32:32.where lives were endangered. That is the priority, to protect lives,
:32:33. > :32:36.property and farmland. Lives are endangered at the moment,
:32:37. > :32:42.particularly as this stagnant water turns toxic. And yet we are in a
:32:43. > :32:44.situation, again encouraged by the Greens and the lobbying Environment
:32:45. > :32:47.Agency, it says it does not want to dredge because dredging is
:32:48. > :32:53.expensive, yet it spends millions on a bird sanctuary. That is getting
:32:54. > :32:58.everything totally wrong. The government is getting everything one
:32:59. > :33:05.by cutting on flood defences. It has not cut on a bird sanctuaries. I
:33:06. > :33:13.don't know the details of that. But looking at the broader issue, we
:33:14. > :33:16.have to prepare for climate change. The government has slashed funding
:33:17. > :33:21.to the Environment Agency and has cut back on the number of staff
:33:22. > :33:23.available to deal with it and has removed the requirement on local
:33:24. > :33:30.councils to plan for climate change. These are all gambling the future of
:33:31. > :33:33.our lives and property and the future of our environment. Hasn t
:33:34. > :33:39.the high watermark of greenery now gone well past? You don't come out
:33:40. > :33:42.of the Somerset Levels with any great reputation. The UK government
:33:43. > :33:47.is now going to start fracking as quickly as it can. Brussels is
:33:48. > :33:53.loosening the CO2 obligations for 2030. The President of America is
:33:54. > :33:58.about to give the go-ahead to the keystone pipeline, a totemic issue
:33:59. > :34:02.for American greens, and your party is in a state of civil war in
:34:03. > :34:07.Brighton. It is over, isn't it? Absolutely not. We are seeing large
:34:08. > :34:15.amounts of extreme weather around the world. Any one event is whether,
:34:16. > :34:18.but we are seeing a lot of it and people are recognising that climate
:34:19. > :34:22.change is happening. If we are going to quote international experts, I
:34:23. > :34:26.can quote to you Ban Ki-Moon, the UN Secretary-General, not known as a
:34:27. > :34:31.radical green, and he said after the IPCC report came out that the heat
:34:32. > :34:33.is on and we must act. If you go to Christine Lagarde, head of the
:34:34. > :34:37.International Monetary Fund, again not a radical green, she was asked
:34:38. > :34:42.what kept her awake at night, and she said, we are not doing enough
:34:43. > :34:45.about climate change. So actually, people around the world are looking
:34:46. > :34:49.at what is happening around them are both people on the ground and people
:34:50. > :34:54.in high positions are saying we have to act on climate change. And in the
:34:55. > :35:00.case of Britain, that should absolutely not mean fracking. Sorry
:35:01. > :35:04.to interrupt, but I have evidence that you are planning a little
:35:05. > :35:08.career change. Don't go away. This is what happens when you let Nigel
:35:09. > :35:12.Farage present the weather. One thing leads to another and low and
:35:13. > :35:17.behold, the Sunday Politics now has a new traffic and travel reporter.
:35:18. > :35:23.Let's go back to Green Party leader, Natalie Bennett. Thanks, Andrew It
:35:24. > :35:28.is easy out that, so let's start with our airports. I am pleased to
:35:29. > :35:34.say that Heathrow's third runway, Boris Island and all short-haul
:35:35. > :35:39.flights are, just like our arguments, well grounded. We suggest
:35:40. > :35:45.making or alternative arrangements, like a re-nationalised rail
:35:46. > :35:50.network, although it would be a glaring omission if we did not admit
:35:51. > :35:53.that that plan is currently being delayed by Labour Party foot
:35:54. > :35:59.dragging. Speaking of trains, we are hearing that high-speed two may well
:36:00. > :36:04.be derailing, or at least getting bogged down in political fog. One
:36:05. > :36:11.viewer, Ed Balls, has texted in to say he is completely lost. Thanks
:36:12. > :36:15.for the update, Ed. You are not alone among political commuters
:36:16. > :36:20.Meanwhile, dumped UKIP manifestoes are causing major tailbacks across
:36:21. > :36:26.the South, apparently stretching all the way to Brussels. This does make
:36:27. > :36:36.driving road tricky, but UKIP's MEPs can, of course, just hop on their
:36:37. > :36:40.gravy train. The tree had a roundabout is blocked after reports
:36:41. > :36:45.of a political earthquake. It seems that a green unwound his beard to
:36:46. > :36:48.block a dodgy gas extractor. A motorist who turned out to be the
:36:49. > :36:54.environment minister object into the delay and was told to frack off as
:36:55. > :37:01.furious badgers demanded that he stopped moving the goalposts.
:37:02. > :37:06.Unregulated traffic in the city of London continues unchecked.
:37:07. > :37:10.Pedestrians should try to block bankers with sacks of loot rushing
:37:11. > :37:17.for the payments. But do beware the Lib Dem Exodus that is clogging up
:37:18. > :37:23.the motorways. Although they are in a jam, or is it a fudge, we are
:37:24. > :37:27.happy to make way for them, as, like all refugees, we say they are
:37:28. > :37:34.welcome here in muesli green. That is the travel. Back to you, Andrew.
:37:35. > :37:40.Natalie, I think you make my point. You are now preparing a new career
:37:41. > :37:43.in traffic and travel. Well, I do believe in lifelong education and
:37:44. > :37:48.that was an example of it. We know you have had a tough time today to
:37:49. > :37:55.get to our studio. Thank you for the effort.
:37:56. > :37:57.You are watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up in just over 20
:37:58. > :38:18.minutes, we will have more Welcome. Onto the's show the Crown
:38:19. > :38:23.estate plans to develop Poole Harbour by possibly having a car
:38:24. > :38:31.park island has prompted complaints from locals who say they have not
:38:32. > :38:38.been consulted on the impact on an area of natural beauty. I am joined
:38:39. > :38:43.by the Labour Party in the European elections and the Conservative MP
:38:44. > :38:47.for word thing and East Shoreham. The police gave you a warning in a
:38:48. > :38:54.long`running dispute with one of your constituents this week, someone
:38:55. > :38:58.you say is abusive. Colleagues suggested that you were owed an
:38:59. > :39:03.apology. Is this whole thing with the police part of trying to assert
:39:04. > :39:09.the rights of Parliament or you trying to sort this whole issue out?
:39:10. > :39:12.It was a select committee and because of the beach of
:39:13. > :39:17.Parliamentary privilege that I reported to the house the Chief
:39:18. > :39:20.Constable and Assistant Chief Constable were hauled before the
:39:21. > :39:28.privileges committee and they were found rather lacking in the
:39:29. > :39:35.evidence. It is important to point out that my case is as it may be and
:39:36. > :39:40.will be reported in due course but the police issued me with a pen
:39:41. > :39:46.notice on the basis that I said the constituent of mine who had been
:39:47. > :39:52.problematic a copy of Hansard and that was deemed to be harassed. If
:39:53. > :40:02.that is seen as harassment it impacts on the way we go around our
:40:03. > :40:07.job as politician. Do you think the MPs should be asserting themselves
:40:08. > :40:23.with the pleas in this week? I do. It has all been deemed pled Gate
:40:24. > :40:30.to, I await the report. `` Plebgate Two. People have said to me they
:40:31. > :40:36.have constituents like this and they could fall foul of the same laws.
:40:37. > :40:43.The police have said they mocked up but they think it is the right thing
:40:44. > :40:49.to do. We will see what the report says and the implications on that.
:40:50. > :40:54.You are still hoping for an apology? The committee asked the
:40:55. > :41:02.Chief Constable to apologise and he refused to. We will see what
:41:03. > :41:07.happens. Bike macro should retake the European Parliament more
:41:08. > :41:12.seriously? One of the wider concerns I have is not just about how
:41:13. > :41:15.parliamentarians relate to their constituency but how
:41:16. > :41:19.parliamentarians relate to each other and sometimes we would cut
:41:20. > :41:25.politicians shouting at each other in parliament and that is not a
:41:26. > :41:31.great example. In the European Parliament it is a different animal.
:41:32. > :41:37.It is incredibly boring and bureaucratic, isn't it? I am macro
:41:38. > :41:40.it may be boring but you do not have people shouting at each other like
:41:41. > :41:50.it is the school yard, engaging in innuendo, we attend our sessions,
:41:51. > :41:54.Labour MEPs, the is a lesson we need to learn because a lot of people put
:41:55. > :41:57.the television on and see Prime Minister's Questions and think they
:41:58. > :42:05.are behaving like schoolchildren, not series people trying to put the
:42:06. > :42:09.right policies in place to help us. It was very noisy this weekend I saw
:42:10. > :42:18.you with your feet on the bench in front. I was crossing my legs at the
:42:19. > :42:26.time! There was a lot of noise from politicians corner. We have these
:42:27. > :42:32.constant complaints that it is too noisy, abusive or whatever but what
:42:33. > :42:39.goes on for the 30 minutes of PMQ 's every week is not the main business
:42:40. > :42:44.of Parliament. However, it is the most sought after ticket in
:42:45. > :42:48.parliament. The public areas are absolutely full, people are loving
:42:49. > :42:54.it, smiling and joking along with it, it is entertaining. The Speaker
:42:55. > :43:02.always gets up and says he has complaints about the behaviour they
:43:03. > :43:07.have been 32, do not take PMQ 's as typical of the deal work that goes
:43:08. > :43:17.on often behind the cameras in parliament but it has become a bit
:43:18. > :43:26.of a pantomime. It is good exercise. For some, sure! Oxfordshire has new
:43:27. > :43:31.funding for the county. The Chancellor was the man in the white
:43:32. > :43:36.coat on Tuesday announcing an investment in signs in Oxfordshire.
:43:37. > :43:41.It comes from the government and the private sector. On Wednesday another
:43:42. > :43:48.7 million was on the table as part of the enterprise scheme for Milton
:43:49. > :43:52.Park near Didcot. It is expected to create more jobs. On Thursday the
:43:53. > :43:58.Deputy Prime Minister was that Harwell for the signing of the city
:43:59. > :44:02.deal, ?55 million from the government with Oxford University
:44:03. > :44:08.and the local council is adding another ?40 million to the pot. The
:44:09. > :44:17.say it will be worth more than ?1 billion once everyone chips in.
:44:18. > :44:23.Support for small and medium`size enterprises, without which, the
:44:24. > :44:31.signs base will not be sustainable in decades ahead. I am joined by
:44:32. > :44:38.Adrian Lockwood from the Oxfordshire local enterprise partnership, none
:44:39. > :44:44.of it was new money, was it? It was not, all we were doing was
:44:45. > :44:54.identifying existing government funds and directing it waiting could
:44:55. > :44:58.be usefully deployed. I am incredibly impressed by the people
:44:59. > :45:04.we have got around the table. They might not have thought each other
:45:05. > :45:09.before? There were people who would not have spoken to each other before
:45:10. > :45:15.sitting in the middle is business and we are focused on delivering. We
:45:16. > :45:22.engaged with local business leaders and we are charged with bringing
:45:23. > :45:26.these things forward. There is no prize for coming second order
:45:27. > :45:33.losing, we do not have much room for politics with what we do, we get on
:45:34. > :45:37.with it with what we do. We looked at business models and all of these
:45:38. > :45:43.cases to ensure they are going to deliver and you will get the maximum
:45:44. > :45:50.return for your investment. You were hoping for this to be signed off a
:45:51. > :45:53.lot earlier? We had hoped last summer but we were hoping for
:45:54. > :45:59.engagement with central government which is another aspect. Now we have
:46:00. > :46:03.been local body engaging with central government across the area
:46:04. > :46:09.'s ministries explaining that while the policy may be existing
:46:10. > :46:14.nationwide it has to be unique in one specific environmental area. Are
:46:15. > :46:20.you worried this would have to change again if there was a new
:46:21. > :46:25.government coming in? I do not think we are really worried. The whole
:46:26. > :46:29.ethos of what has been created here seems to be potentially very
:46:30. > :46:35.successful, a very good new mix and we forward, I am sure there will be
:46:36. > :46:41.changes somewhere in terms of the delivery but my understanding when
:46:42. > :46:46.talking with various parties involved here is that there is a
:46:47. > :46:51.general acceptance that this is a good move. Do you think it is
:46:52. > :46:58.working well? Better than the old development agency? I would not
:46:59. > :47:03.necessarily say that but I think he hit the nail on the head when he
:47:04. > :47:09.said the issue is around delivery. A lot of this looks good on paper but
:47:10. > :47:13.it is really aspirational. Some of the elements, particularly around
:47:14. > :47:18.housing, there is really not an enforcement mechanism. In terms of
:47:19. > :47:21.what was being said about relationships with central
:47:22. > :47:27.government, politicians and Whitehall cooed say you want to have
:47:28. > :47:32.the right to borrow and build more houses, to ultimately save the
:47:33. > :47:39.public purse so you are not putting people into private housing, but we
:47:40. > :47:44.will let you do that if you fulfil particular conditions. That is the
:47:45. > :47:49.example saying you cannot have social housing, it would have to be
:47:50. > :47:54.affordable housing, you cannot put housing in one place, only another
:47:55. > :47:59.place. My concern is that they are not getting localities power over
:48:00. > :48:04.this process. It is a great vision and I do not mean to diminish what
:48:05. > :48:09.you and your colleagues have done but I am worried about the delivery.
:48:10. > :48:13.It used to have an infrastructure before which was a regional
:48:14. > :48:17.structure, it was not perfect but now we have the whole patchwork
:48:18. > :48:23.across the South East without that clear delivery mechanism being their
:48:24. > :48:28.any more. You are all in competition with each other, do you think it is
:48:29. > :48:34.working with business involvement? What about the national insistence
:48:35. > :48:42.on different things? It is early days for the Letts. We are waiting
:48:43. > :48:50.for confirmation. Before they were far too big, it covered Oxford
:48:51. > :48:56.through to Dover, far too big and unwieldy, too expensive to run. What
:48:57. > :49:02.we have got no is the business involvement which is key. The way it
:49:03. > :49:06.is working is to get the leveraged effect, the gearing of extra
:49:07. > :49:12.business is coming in. Talking together with other partners in a
:49:13. > :49:16.joined up Way. There is no point in having public money thrown at the
:49:17. > :49:23.regeneration scheme if it is not working, it has got to be joined up
:49:24. > :49:27.with neighbouring towns and villages and with the businesses and
:49:28. > :49:32.innovation zones and all the things like that. Within this framework I
:49:33. > :49:36.think that can happen and is more likely to happen whereas it was not
:49:37. > :49:45.happening certainly economically with the great large areas that
:49:46. > :49:49.there were before. And what do you think? I do not see how that can be
:49:50. > :49:54.the case when it is unclear what the delivery mechanism is going to be.
:49:55. > :50:01.700,000 extra homes is great but we are still having people arguing with
:50:02. > :50:07.each other about where they will go. At least with the previous situation
:50:08. > :50:19.they had to deliver. The regional development agencies were... They
:50:20. > :50:22.were elected, now we have the patchwork, some are great and some
:50:23. > :50:34.not so great. We need joined up thinking. They were run by people
:50:35. > :50:45.who were not... Who were paid by watering salaries, we have to see
:50:46. > :50:51.them working with businesses and local infrastructure. The potential
:50:52. > :50:57.is much more workable than it was. You are positive that you could
:50:58. > :51:04.improve things. I think we were very lucky, Oxfordshire has a very small
:51:05. > :51:08.map and it is well defined. We only have one County Council. In terms of
:51:09. > :51:13.the delivery of the housing, all of the district councils are signed up
:51:14. > :51:16.to this, it was not done in isolation. They all understand they
:51:17. > :51:20.have to deliver that housing, in terms of what we have one locked
:51:21. > :51:25.with infrastructure, you know the area, look at the main road, I know
:51:26. > :51:30.what my journey to work is like and I am not trying to get into the
:51:31. > :51:35.enterprise zone but around it. We are trying to unlock schemes that
:51:36. > :51:39.have always did before because of budget reasons. They want to grow
:51:40. > :51:42.new spin out businesses that will benefit locally from the technology
:51:43. > :51:49.that is done and the research establishments, the University, we
:51:50. > :51:54.are putting in incubators to grow local businesses, spin offs out of
:51:55. > :52:02.that, rather than it going somewhere else. Thank you. Plans for the
:52:03. > :52:10.development of pool B has been criticised by environmental
:52:11. > :52:15.campaigners. Part of the property may be least to the highest bidder
:52:16. > :52:31.but that is where the scheme runs into choppy waters. `` leased. One
:52:32. > :52:35.of the largest natural harbours in the world with this National trust
:52:36. > :52:43.owned island sitting in the middle. This most picturesque of views could
:52:44. > :52:49.be about to change. The owners of the shoreline, the Crown estate,
:52:50. > :52:53.want to develop the marina with berths for 600 yachts and space for
:52:54. > :53:00.200 vehicles to park in a man`made island out in the bay. What has
:53:01. > :53:09.upset local residents, environmental campaigners and others is a complete
:53:10. > :53:13.lack of consultation locally and no consideration of the environmental
:53:14. > :53:19.impact of the scheme. We were staggered, fancy the concept of
:53:20. > :53:24.building in pool B and Ireland to part 200 cars, not just that but the
:53:25. > :53:28.access bridge will be high level so that the fisher men can go
:53:29. > :53:35.underneath it to access the harbour. It is amazing. The Crown estate are
:53:36. > :53:42.the landlords who own these shoreline and are considering to
:53:43. > :53:47.rival schemes. One plan is for the 900 berth marina for which there has
:53:48. > :53:51.been a great deal of consultation. We have done an environmental
:53:52. > :53:58.assessment and have spoken to a whole range of state holders, local
:53:59. > :54:02.residents, local councillors, fisher men. Our concern is that the rival
:54:03. > :54:12.scheme has not been through that same due diligence. The preferred
:54:13. > :54:16.bit by the Crown estate will include a public viewing gallery and the
:54:17. > :54:21.bridge connecting the island with the shore but with no drawings yet
:54:22. > :54:25.released many say they have no idea what the scheme will actually look
:54:26. > :54:33.like saw how can the Crown estate have made that its preferred option?
:54:34. > :54:39.They have abdicated their responsibility to consult with
:54:40. > :54:43.people here about this scheme, they have been allowed to just get on
:54:44. > :54:49.with what they want without any proper oversight. It is fantastic
:54:50. > :54:57.that people have written into the Crown estates in such large numbers.
:54:58. > :55:01.There has been sustained lobbying, that effect might make them change
:55:02. > :55:07.their mind but we will have to wait and see. The leader of the borough
:55:08. > :55:20.council says they have been kept in the dark. The Crown Estate does not
:55:21. > :55:26.see it as their responsibility to discuss with the council ordered the
:55:27. > :55:31.harbour commissioners. They are the custodians of pool harbour and these
:55:32. > :55:39.special issues should be considered for any bid that goes in. We did
:55:40. > :55:46.invite the Crown Estate to be interviewed but they declined. They
:55:47. > :55:50.were not able to provide details of what it would look like, we ask for
:55:51. > :55:58.details of the tender but we were told that was commercially sensitive
:55:59. > :56:05.and would not be made public. In 2010 the Treasury Select Committee
:56:06. > :56:10.criticised the Crown Estate. The said they used their monopoly over
:56:11. > :56:14.the media environment to focus on generating revenue rather than to
:56:15. > :56:19.act in the long`term public interest. Some locals say that under
:56:20. > :56:26.no circumstances will they accept a man`made parking island and
:56:27. > :56:31.connecting bridge on one of the most environmentally sensitive parts of
:56:32. > :56:34.the South West. We want to fight this potential desecration of pool
:56:35. > :56:42.harbour and ensure the environment is protected. It is a lack of
:56:43. > :56:46.transparency and the Crown Estates have increased their surplus revenue
:56:47. > :56:54.every year for the last ten years. Should they be doing more? As I
:56:55. > :56:59.understand it they have been profit for the last 25 years, this relates
:57:00. > :57:04.to our discussion before. It is important that people can see
:57:05. > :57:08.democratic input into these kinds of decisions, they have to have some
:57:09. > :57:14.sort of commercial point of view but they have to balance that in terms
:57:15. > :57:18.of taking people's opinions into account. I have been involved in
:57:19. > :57:21.cases around The National Trust's properties we are commercial
:57:22. > :57:28.imperatives deemed to be driving some decisions. We need to have a
:57:29. > :57:32.balance, some transparency around how these decisions are being made
:57:33. > :57:39.so people do not feel shut out of these decisions. Did you find
:57:40. > :57:43.dealing with them was the same as dealing with any other commercial
:57:44. > :57:49.organisation? They are a strange beast. They certainly need to be
:57:50. > :57:55.more transparent, I agree. It was formed in 1760 but it has changed in
:57:56. > :58:01.the last few years such that the Queen now gets 50% of their
:58:02. > :58:06.revenues. I do not think anybody understands how it is really run. It
:58:07. > :58:10.is all the more reason given that they are one of the largest
:58:11. > :58:13.landowners in the country, responsible for the shoreline, in my
:58:14. > :58:19.case we have the largest offshore wind farm being planned off the
:58:20. > :58:23.coast of Sussex and the lot of people have a big interest in that.
:58:24. > :58:28.Crown estate have not been forthcoming with information about
:58:29. > :58:32.that. Crown estate is absolutely should be accountable and they are
:58:33. > :58:43.not as accountable and transparent as they need to be, that would allay
:58:44. > :58:52.some of the fears, I think. Now, our regular round`up of the political
:58:53. > :58:56.week in the South in 60 seconds. The new minister for pot smoker paid his
:58:57. > :59:01.first visit to the city by the historic dockyard and Nelson's
:59:02. > :59:10.flagship EEPROM is the government will not turn a blind eye to
:59:11. > :59:15.Pompey's problems. Lessons were cancelled at Oxford University as
:59:16. > :59:20.lecturers walked out over a 1% pay offer. It looks like best will be
:59:21. > :59:26.the first equal time to be finished but the 5000 houses first planned
:59:27. > :59:31.under Labour are still controversial. Sussex residents who
:59:32. > :59:35.rejected an eco`town here say they are out of the frying pan and into
:59:36. > :59:43.the fire, an incinerator now heading their way. The chimneys will be seen
:59:44. > :59:49.everywhere in the South Downs. Finally, the French flew into
:59:50. > :00:02.Oxfordshire and the PM to the President down the pub. `` took the
:00:03. > :00:08.President. I think we will keep the continental music going! Do you mind
:00:09. > :00:13.if we do not stand up? You want to get to Europe, do you want to change
:00:14. > :00:22.things over there or do you think the Wii France as Lalonde operates
:00:23. > :00:28.is all right? I do not want to operate in the same way as he has
:00:29. > :00:32.done recently! Seriously, Labour wants to have a number of reforms to
:00:33. > :00:40.Europe, not least the agricultural policy. Can I quickly say children
:00:41. > :00:46.in the back of cars and smoking being allowed, you are starting a
:00:47. > :00:50.consultation on this? Yes, on my website I have asked people what
:00:51. > :00:56.they think about it. I am against the nanny state and I want to hear
:00:57. > :01:01.what people say. Safety for children. It
:01:02. > :01:10.Not a complete denial! Hopefully a Conservative mayor again.
:01:11. > :01:18.Not a good week for David Cameron on the tricky European front last week.
:01:19. > :01:23.President Hollande said he was not interested in major treaty reform
:01:24. > :01:27.for 2017. That is when Mr Cameron hopes to hold his in-out referendum.
:01:28. > :01:32.And the private member's bill to put that referendum on the statute bill
:01:33. > :01:35.was killed by Labour and Lib Dem peers in the Lords. James Wharton
:01:36. > :01:43.was the Tory MP behind the bill and he joins me now. What happens now?
:01:44. > :01:47.It is out of my hands what happens now, because Labour and the Liberal
:01:48. > :01:51.Democrats conspired in the Lords to kill off my bill. One of the options
:01:52. > :01:55.is for another private member to bring a bill forward when they have
:01:56. > :01:58.the next private member's bill at, and we can try again. The prime
:01:59. > :02:04.minister has indicated that he will support that. But whatever happens,
:02:05. > :02:11.it will be in the Conservative manifesto at the next election. Do
:02:12. > :02:13.you accept that cost this is Tory policy and not government policy
:02:14. > :02:19.that the government policy elite macro cannot bring forward a bill?
:02:20. > :02:23.That is the problem. The Liberal Democrats, despite having promised a
:02:24. > :02:25.referendum in their manifesto at the last election, now will not allow
:02:26. > :02:30.government time for a bill to enshrine that in law. That was why I
:02:31. > :02:33.brought it forward as a private member's bill. David Cameron and the
:02:34. > :02:38.Conservative Party through everything behind that. To many
:02:39. > :02:42.people's surprise, we got it through all the House of Commons stages
:02:43. > :02:45.Sadly, to their discredit, Labour and Liberal Democrat peers, doing
:02:46. > :02:51.the bidding of their masters in the Commons, is conspired to kill it. Do
:02:52. > :02:55.you accept that it is Conservative policy, but not government policy,
:02:56. > :02:59.that you could not use the Parliament act to get this through
:03:00. > :03:04.the Lords? That is not the case The Parliament act is clear that if a
:03:05. > :03:06.public bill passes through the House of Commons twice in one
:03:07. > :03:11.Parliamentary period, there is a certain amount of time that has to
:03:12. > :03:15.be between both bills being presented. There are some procedural
:03:16. > :03:19.steps to be overcome, but there is no legal reason why the Parliament
:03:20. > :03:24.act could not come into effect. I was talking about you not having a
:03:25. > :03:27.majority in this case. That remains to be seen. We saw previously that
:03:28. > :03:32.Labour and the Liberal Democrats sent enough people to frustrate its
:03:33. > :03:37.progress to make it as difficult as possible, but not huge numbers to
:03:38. > :03:42.vote against it. On a Friday, huge numbers of MPs do not attend
:03:43. > :03:48.normally. Getting that number might prove difficult. The Parliament act,
:03:49. > :03:52.which is a bit of an atomic bomb in constitutional terms, if that was
:03:53. > :03:58.used, they would turn up to vote against you. Is it not the case that
:03:59. > :04:03.after the countryside Alliance tried to involve the courts in the hunting
:04:04. > :04:09.ban that it was made clear that the Parliament act was not to be used
:04:10. > :04:12.for constitutional issues? I don't think we know how many would turn up
:04:13. > :04:16.and we don't know how they would vote. One of the things that has
:04:17. > :04:19.been revealed as I have gone through the process of getting this bill to
:04:20. > :04:24.get a referendum through the Commons is that there are big splits in the
:04:25. > :04:28.Labour Party. One of the reasons we did not see them turning up in large
:04:29. > :04:31.numbers to stop this bill from happening was that Ed Miliband knew
:04:32. > :04:35.that if he tried to lead his own MPs through the lobbies to block a
:04:36. > :04:40.bill, the only purpose of which is to let Britain decides to give
:04:41. > :04:44.people a say on membership of the union, a lot of his MPs may not have
:04:45. > :04:49.followed him. It is all fantasy politics anyway. The French
:04:50. > :04:52.president has made clear that he has no interest in treaty change this
:04:53. > :04:59.side of 2017. He would need a referendum as well . And he needs
:05:00. > :05:04.that like a hole and had. Merkel is not keen, as she is in coalition
:05:05. > :05:09.with the social Democrats. Without the French or the Germans, it will
:05:10. > :05:15.not happen, end of story. The policy is that we will try to negotiate on
:05:16. > :05:19.getting a better deal. I hear what you are saying, but I don't
:05:20. > :05:22.recognise it as reality. We have a strong bargaining position. But
:05:23. > :05:27.whatever the result of that negotiation, it will be put in an
:05:28. > :05:31.in-out vote to the Britain people. It is time people were allowed to
:05:32. > :05:35.decide. It has been over a generation since we last had a say.
:05:36. > :05:38.David Cameron has committed to delivering that referendum. The
:05:39. > :05:42.Conservative Party will have it in our next manifesto for the election.
:05:43. > :05:47.Whatever happens to my bill or any other of the bill that comes
:05:48. > :05:50.forward. If people want a referendum, the only party that can
:05:51. > :05:57.deliver that in British politics is the Conservatives. Let me bring the
:05:58. > :06:01.panel in. Nick, where is this going? It is clear to me and anyone who
:06:02. > :06:05.follows European politics that there is no appetite for major treaty
:06:06. > :06:09.change in the short run, particularly for the kind of major
:06:10. > :06:13.changes that Vista Cameron says he is going to get, and yet the Tories
:06:14. > :06:17.are talking about Europe again when they should be talking about the
:06:18. > :06:22.economy. And Francois Hollande is looking at 2017, the year we are
:06:23. > :06:25.meant to have this referendum. There will be a French presidential
:06:26. > :06:29.election going on, and Nicolas Sarkozy will be back in play by
:06:30. > :06:35.then. But James has an interesting point, which is that it is down to
:06:36. > :06:40.Angela Merkel. She would be more receptive to David Cameron's ideas
:06:41. > :06:45.of reform than people assume. She has looked over the edge at a Europe
:06:46. > :06:49.without the UK and said, that is not acceptable, and I am willing to pay
:06:50. > :06:55.a price, not any price, but a price to keep the UK in the European
:06:56. > :06:58.Union. And the French, because the UK and France are the only serious
:06:59. > :07:01.military powers in Europe, will eventually come to that position. So
:07:02. > :07:07.there is more support for David Cameron than people assume. The
:07:08. > :07:16.French are also not a strong position in terms of the euro and
:07:17. > :07:26.French economy. The Foreign Office seem a bit more optimistic about
:07:27. > :07:30.it. Of course they are. Douglas Hurd once told me, we are winning the
:07:31. > :07:32.arguments on the single currency. Of course anything from the Foreign
:07:33. > :07:37.Office comes with a health warning, but if David Cameron had won a
:07:38. > :07:42.majority and was determined to renegotiate, he is in a strong
:07:43. > :07:46.position with Merkel. There is a possibility that the French could
:07:47. > :07:53.eventually be talked around. So it is not entirely bleak on that front
:07:54. > :07:56.for Cameron. When do the Tory party managers say, look, stop banging on
:07:57. > :08:02.about Europe again? The economy is going away. We still have an
:08:03. > :08:06.electoral mountain to climb. Let's just talk about that and not be
:08:07. > :08:12.divided. They should have done that some time ago. It is already too
:08:13. > :08:18.late. The Tories need a seven point lead in the polls to get image are
:08:19. > :08:22.tea. The way things are, that would require a huge change from where we
:08:23. > :08:27.are now . It is very unlikely to happen. So all this is happening in
:08:28. > :08:33.some bizarre imaginary space with wonderful rainbows and sunshine But
:08:34. > :08:41.we can detect the beginnings of a shift in the last couple of weeks.
:08:42. > :08:46.If you talk to Tory backbenchers, Douglas Carswell is now saying in
:08:47. > :08:51.public that it is time to stop the fighting. If they are to get even
:08:52. > :08:59.close to winning the election, they can't do it if they are all against
:09:00. > :09:03.each other. I don't think it is an imaginary space. It is likely that
:09:04. > :09:07.David Cameron will have the largest party in the election. If it is a
:09:08. > :09:08.hung parliament and it is the Liberal Democrats and the
:09:09. > :09:14.Conservative Party, David Cameron will save to Nick Clegg we gave you
:09:15. > :09:19.an AV referendum, I am having this referendum. And it will be difficult
:09:20. > :09:24.for Nick to say no. Let me go back to Mr Wharton. You are going to get
:09:25. > :09:29.a referendum in the manifesto. Other than Ken Clarke, everybody wants it.
:09:30. > :09:32.So why don't you just banked that and get behind the leadership
:09:33. > :09:37.Institute causing endless problems and coming across as a Europe
:09:38. > :09:42.accessed, divided party? I am absolutely behind the leadership.
:09:43. > :09:46.David Cameron announced the policy I am trying to bring forward in this
:09:47. > :09:54.bill. It is in line with the speech he gave this time last year. But
:09:55. > :09:58.getting that commitment into law will help to kick-start the
:09:59. > :10:04.negotiation process and mean everyone will know where we stand.
:10:05. > :10:07.But whatever happens, the Conservatives are committed to
:10:08. > :10:11.delivering a referendum. And to address the point that we talk about
:10:12. > :10:16.Europe too much, that is not the case. We have a good message on the
:10:17. > :10:21.economy, on tackling immigration and reforming welfare. There is more to
:10:22. > :10:26.do, but this is also an important part of policy. But at a time when
:10:27. > :10:31.the economic news seems to be turning in your direction, you are
:10:32. > :10:36.talking about the European referendum. Your backbench
:10:37. > :10:42.colleagues are trying to change the Immigration Bill every which way.
:10:43. > :10:47.Dominic Rather is putting in an amendment is and Mr Nigel Mills has
:10:48. > :10:51.been on this programme, putting in amendments that are clearly illegal.
:10:52. > :10:54.How is that helpful? The fact is that we are in a coalition, so there
:10:55. > :10:57.are areas of policy where Conservatives might want to go
:10:58. > :11:04.further and we are not able to do that. In other areas, we are
:11:05. > :11:11.delivering good reforms. But this is not a matter of going further. The
:11:12. > :11:14.mill 's amendment was clearly a contravention of the Treaty of Rome.
:11:15. > :11:18.That is where you get the headlines from. Some of your colleagues have a
:11:19. > :11:24.death wish? Would they rather have a Miliband government if the choice is
:11:25. > :11:28.an impure Cameron one instead? I don't think anyone in their right
:11:29. > :11:35.mind would rather have a Miliband government. Then why are they
:11:36. > :11:39.behaving that way? We have had some disagreements into the leak and
:11:40. > :11:43.debate within the party, but it was talked about on the panel just now.
:11:44. > :11:47.The Conservative Party is behind David Cameron and focused on winning
:11:48. > :11:51.the next election. Europe is one part of that. We have policies in a
:11:52. > :11:59.range of areas, but we are getting back on the right track. Thank you
:12:00. > :12:04.for being patient with us. Is this ghost story going to go
:12:05. > :12:07.somewhere? Mr Laws is talking through surrogates at the moment,
:12:08. > :12:15.but there is a strategy by the Lib Dems make these differential points
:12:16. > :12:21.now. I think it is fantastic coalition sports and entertaining,
:12:22. > :12:24.but in terms of out there, it has almost no traction whatsoever. I
:12:25. > :12:28.don't think any voters know who Baroness Morgan is and it sounds
:12:29. > :12:31.like one but politicians shouting at another bunch of politicians about
:12:32. > :12:37.their ability to give each other jobs. There is a larger point about
:12:38. > :12:41.the way Michael Gove runs his government. He is notoriously a very
:12:42. > :12:45.polite man surrounded by Rottweiler is, his advisers. He has made
:12:46. > :12:49.enemies of a lot of people in the media, and some of that will come
:12:50. > :12:53.back on him in the next 18 months. We shall see if Mr Laws himself
:12:54. > :12:58.sticks his head above the parapet. That is it for this week. The Daily
:12:59. > :13:02.Politics is on throughout the week at midday on BBC Two, except on
:13:03. > :13:07.Wednesdays, when we are on at 11:30am. I will be back next week at
:13:08. > :13:14.the same time. Remember, if it is Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.