:00:53. > :01:01.morning, folks, welcome to the Sunday Politics. Rising flood water,
:01:02. > :01:05.a battered coastline, the winter storms forced the Government to take
:01:06. > :01:08.control. Is it hanging the Environment Agency out to dry?
:01:09. > :01:12.Embarrassment for the Government Environment Agency out to dry?
:01:13. > :01:14.the Immigration Minister resigns after he discovered he was employing
:01:15. > :03:01.a cleaner with no This would seem like a good
:03:02. > :03:04.resignation, maybe unlike the Baroness Scotland one years ago on a
:03:05. > :03:12.similar issue, but have we been told the full story? We wait to see that.
:03:13. > :03:16.Labour have picked up saying he is an honourable man, that the reason
:03:17. > :03:21.why he resigned is these very owners checks that landlords and employers
:03:22. > :03:27.will have to perform on employees over their documentation. The most
:03:28. > :03:31.interesting line is that, we do not require them to be experts or spot
:03:32. > :03:38.anything other than an obvious forgery. The suggestion that there
:03:39. > :05:17.is the document he was presented with originality,
:05:18. > :05:20.is the document he was presented And if you three want to resign Do
:05:21. > :05:28.not hate you are coming back next week. But we will do it with honour.
:05:29. > :05:32.It has been a hellish week for residents of coastal areas with more
:05:33. > :05:36.storms bringing more flooding and after Prince Charles visited the
:05:37. > :05:39.Somerset Levels on Tuesday the Government has been keen to show it
:05:40. > :05:47.has got a grip on the situation at last.
:05:48. > :05:51.For last weekend's Sunday Politics I made the watery journey to the
:05:52. > :07:36.village of Muchelney, cut off for a whole month. Now
:07:37. > :07:40.village of Muchelney, cut off for a for flood prone areas of the
:07:41. > :07:44.country? I am joined from Oxford by the editor of The Ecologist
:07:45. > :07:51.magazine, Oliver Tickell, and by local MP Tessa Munt. Tessa, let me
:07:52. > :07:59.come to you first. What do you now want the Government to do? I want it
:08:00. > :08:01.to make sure it does exactly as it promises and delivers what every
:08:02. > :08:07.farmer and landowner around here knows should have been done for
:08:08. > :08:09.years. First, to solve the problems we have right now, but to make sure
:08:10. > :08:13.there is money we have right now, but to make sure
:08:14. > :08:14.carry on doing the maintenance that is necessary.
:08:15. > :10:00.carry on doing the maintenance that Dredging is a part of it, but it is
:10:01. > :10:06.a catchment wide solution. Dredging is only a small part of the solution
:10:07. > :10:13.he says. Yes, of course it is. But look here. With the farmer is
:10:14. > :10:18.locally, the landowners, they know this land will carry water for a few
:10:19. > :10:23.weeks of the year, that is not a problem. But this water has to be
:10:24. > :10:29.taken away and there is a very good system of drainage and it works
:10:30. > :10:32.perfectly well. In my area there are serious problems because the
:10:33. > :12:15.dredging has not taken place. There are lunatic regulations
:12:16. > :12:19.dredging has not taken place. There seen it, but grass does not grow if
:12:20. > :12:23.water is sitting on this land for weeks and weeks. What you have to
:12:24. > :12:28.remember is a lot of the levels are managed very carefully and they are
:12:29. > :12:33.conservation land and that means cattle are allowed to go out at
:12:34. > :12:38.certain times of the year and in certain numbers. It is well managed.
:12:39. > :12:47.Do you accept it should return to grassland? Grassland, fine, but you
:12:48. > :12:52.cannot call land grassland in the flipping water is on it so long that
:12:53. > :12:55.nothing grows. It is no good at doing that. You
:12:56. > :14:35.nothing grows. It is no good at sure it is managed properly.
:14:36. > :14:38.nothing grows. It is no good at been going to the drainage boards
:14:39. > :14:43.and they pay the Environment Agency who are meant to be dredging and
:14:44. > :14:47.that has not happened. We have to leave it there. We have run out of
:14:48. > :14:51.time. Last week saw the Labour Party
:14:52. > :14:56.adopts an historic change with its relationship with the unions.
:14:57. > :15:02.Changes to the rules that propelled Ed Miliband to the top. Ed Miliband
:15:03. > :15:07.was elected Labour leader in 20 0 by the electoral college system which
:15:08. > :15:09.gives unions, party members and MPs one third of votes each. This would
:15:10. > :15:14.be changed one third of votes each. This would
:15:15. > :15:16.member, one vote system. A union member would have to become an
:15:17. > :16:57.affiliated member of the party. member would have to become an
:16:58. > :17:05.fantastic British businesses, we want them to make an active choice,
:17:06. > :17:08.and we are also recognising that in this day and age not everybody wants
:17:09. > :17:20.to become a member of a political party. We haven't got much time The
:17:21. > :17:30.unions still have 50% of the vote at Labour conferences, there will be
:17:31. > :19:14.the single most important vote, more member
:19:15. > :19:14.the single most important vote, more your individual party members. In
:19:15. > :19:19.one vital way, your purse strings, your individual party members. In
:19:20. > :19:20.the unions will be more powerful than ever because at the moment they
:19:21. > :19:31.have to hand over 8 million to than ever because at the moment they
:19:32. > :19:35.fraction of that now. They will get to keep that money, but then come
:19:36. > :19:48.the election you go to them and give them a lot of money -- and they will
:19:49. > :19:52.have you then. They won't have us, as you put it! The idea that
:19:53. > :19:55.individual trade union members don't have their own view,
:19:56. > :19:56.individual trade union members don't voice, and just do what their
:19:57. > :21:33.general voice, and just do what their
:21:34. > :21:45.an important business person in the House of Lords, the former chief
:21:46. > :21:54.executive of the ITV, Bill Grimsey. How many? You can only name one
:21:55. > :22:00.Bill Grimsey, there is also John Mills. Anyone who is currently
:22:01. > :22:04.chairman of the chief executive With the greatest respect, you are
:22:05. > :22:06.talking about less than half the percent of business leaders in our
:22:07. > :22:11.country, we have almost percent of business leaders in our
:22:12. > :24:01.businesses, not all FTSE 100 businesses, not all FTSE 100
:24:02. > :24:08.it" . Another quote, that it borders on predatory taxation. They think
:24:09. > :24:14.you are anti-business. I don't agree with them. One of the interesting
:24:15. > :24:18.things about Sir Stuart's comments on the predatory taxation and I
:24:19. > :24:21.think he was referring to the 5 p rate of tax is that he made some
:24:22. > :24:28.comments arguing against the reduction of the top rate of tax
:24:29. > :24:32.from 50p. He is saying something different now. Digby of course has
:24:33. > :24:35.his own opinions, he has never been a member of the Labour Party. Let me
:24:36. > :26:18.come onto this business of a member of the Labour Party. Let me
:26:19. > :26:24.we didn't have those issues. Sure, though you cannot tell me how much
:26:25. > :26:31.the 50p will raise. In the three years of operation we think it
:26:32. > :26:39.raised ?10 billion. You think. That was based on extrapolation from the
:26:40. > :26:42.British library. It is at least possible I would suggest, for the
:26:43. > :26:48.sake of argument, that when you promise to take over half people's
:26:49. > :26:53.income, which is what you will do if you get your way, the richest 1
:26:54. > :28:35.currently account you get your way, the richest 1
:28:36. > :28:42.to this? Across Europe, for example in Sweden they have higher tax rates
:28:43. > :28:47.than us. Can you name one major economy? I couldn't pluck one out of
:28:48. > :28:53.the air, I can see where you are coming from, I don't agree with it.
:28:54. > :28:56.I think most people subscribe to the fact that those with wider shoulders
:28:57. > :29:03.should carry the heavy a burden We fact that those with wider shoulders
:29:04. > :29:07.have run out of time but thank you for being here.
:29:08. > :29:09.Over the past week it seems that Nick Clegg has activated a new Lib
:29:10. > :29:12.Dem strategy - 'Get Gove'. Nick Clegg has activated a new Lib
:29:13. > :30:57.very public spat Nick Clegg has activated a new Lib
:30:58. > :30:59.post 2015. One spat does not a divorce make but perhaps even more
:31:00. > :31:02.significant has been Chief Secretary to the Treasury Danny Alexander s
:31:03. > :31:04.recent newspaper interview firmly spiking any room for George Osborne
:31:05. > :31:08.to manoeuvre on lowering the highest income tax rate to 40p. All this
:31:09. > :31:11.builds on the inclusion in Government at the reshuffle of
:31:12. > :31:14.people like Norman Baker at the Home Office and Simon Hughes at Justice
:31:15. > :31:16.people who are happier to publically express doubt on Conservative
:31:17. > :31:29.policy, unlike say Jeremy Browne who was removed and who has made plain
:31:30. > :31:31.his views on Coalition. It is difficult for us to demonstrate that
:31:32. > :31:33.his views on Coalition. It is we are more socialist than an Ed
:31:34. > :33:15.Miliband we are more socialist than an Ed
:33:16. > :33:19.Jenkin. Matthew, the Lib Dems are now picking fights with the Tories
:33:20. > :33:23.on a range of issues, some of them trivial. Is this a Pirelli used to
:33:24. > :33:28.Lib Dem withdrawal trivial. Is this a Pirelli used to
:33:29. > :33:35.coalition? I do not know, I am not privy to Nick Clegg's in strategy.
:33:36. > :33:37.Some of us have been independent for some time. I resigned over treatment
:33:38. > :33:43.of the banks. some time. I resigned over treatment
:33:44. > :33:47.sorted out. But what is significant is we have seen a string of attacks,
:33:48. > :35:31.almost an enemy is we have seen a string of attacks,
:35:32. > :35:36.despite what Nick Clegg originally said. It does not make much
:35:37. > :35:40.difference. What makes a difference from the perspective of the
:35:41. > :35:44.committee I chair is historically we have had single party Government
:35:45. > :35:49.that have collective responsibility and clarity. The reason that is
:35:50. > :35:54.important is because nothing gets done if everybody is at sixes and
:35:55. > :35:59.sevens in the Government. Everything stops, there is paralysis as the row
:36:00. > :36:04.goes on. Civil servants do not know who they are working for. If it
:36:05. > :36:11.carries on getting fractures, there is a bigger argument to get out. If
:36:12. > :37:49.it continues at this level of intensity of the enemy within
:37:50. > :37:53.it continues at this level of representative of the failure of
:37:54. > :37:57.Nick Clegg's strategy to rebuild a centrist Liberal party and he now
:37:58. > :38:02.accepts the only way he can save as many seats as he can do is to get
:38:03. > :38:09.the disillusioned left Lib Dem voters to come back to the fold? The
:38:10. > :38:14.site is we have lost over half our vote at the last election and at the
:38:15. > :38:20.moment there is no sign in the polls of it coming back and we are getting
:38:21. > :38:24.very close to the next election. I welcome it if Nick Clegg is starting
:38:25. > :38:29.to address that problem, but talking about the centre is not the answer.
:38:30. > :38:31.to address that problem, but talking Most Liberal Democrat voters at the
:38:32. > :38:31.to address that problem, but talking last election are radical,
:38:32. > :40:08.progressive people last election are radical,
:40:09. > :40:11.Welcome to Sunday Politics South ` my name's Peter Henley. On today's
:40:12. > :40:15.show the rain keeps falling and the floods keep rising ` the Prime
:40:16. > :40:18.Minister promised more money to help with the repairs this week, but are
:40:19. > :40:22.we doing enough to prevent it happening in the first place?
:40:23. > :40:25.More on that shortly. First let's meet the two politicians who'll be
:40:26. > :40:28.with me to discuss that and other matters. Richard Benyon is the
:40:29. > :40:36.Conservative MP for Newbury and Lord Jim Knight is a Labour peer and the
:40:37. > :40:42.former MP for South Dorset. Jim, the Prime Minister's speech on
:40:43. > :40:44.the union on Friday was well received, it seems, but what he is
:40:45. > :40:50.saying is that people Scottish relatives and friends and
:40:51. > :42:30.say, stay with us. more votes by dropping the voting
:42:31. > :42:36.age to 16. The evidence is that younger voters just don't get this.
:42:37. > :42:44.Mike the don't see the point of Scotland hiving itself off. And that
:42:45. > :42:48.post Braveheart generation may swing it quite decisively pro union.
:42:49. > :42:52.Rain, storms, flooding and more rain were back on the political agenda
:42:53. > :42:55.this week. And in Prime Ministers Questions on Wednesday, stung by
:42:56. > :42:58.accusations from Labour that the government had been slow to react to
:42:59. > :43:06.the rising tide of problems, the Prime Minister was in take charge
:43:07. > :43:09.mode. Whatever is required, whether it is
:43:10. > :44:47.dredging work on the rivers or support for our emergency services,
:44:48. > :44:49.dozens of homes and businesses in Newbury underwater. It was the five
:44:50. > :44:54.time in seven years the town had been flooded, forcing the
:44:55. > :44:58.Environment Agency interaction. In 2011 started work on a ?2 million
:44:59. > :45:04.scheme to protect people and it was finished just in time for this most
:45:05. > :45:07.wet winters. In these locations we are using a
:45:08. > :45:14.combination of walls, herding, natural embankments to weave our way
:45:15. > :45:17.through the Oregon context. The key is accepting that the river
:45:18. > :45:22.will flood in capturing the run`off before it reaches the more built`up
:45:23. > :45:26.areas of the town. Houses behind us and being
:45:27. > :45:29.protected. We are cutting that water off. What we would say is floodwater
:45:30. > :47:10.travelling into these businesses to dig into their pockets
:47:11. > :47:16.will not be easy. I can understand that people might
:47:17. > :47:21.balk, but if it is a case of a or flood... We do need to get this
:47:22. > :47:24.partnership idea going so that people do realise the only way we
:47:25. > :47:30.can solve flooding is by everyone putting in together.
:47:31. > :47:36.There is more flood risk than funding. We are working closer with
:47:37. > :47:39.community 's and councils and other emergency responders these days,
:47:40. > :47:45.also in terms of generating the business case as well as the
:47:46. > :47:45.financial, so that we can invest in flood defences in the
:47:46. > :49:29.other communities are being protected by effective schemes
:49:30. > :49:32.because of the wider system of funding.
:49:33. > :49:37.A lot of others will be waiting. Balancing these priorities, you were
:49:38. > :49:45.at Defra, these are long`term things. Sometimes when we haven't
:49:46. > :49:47.got the water everyone says it is like pushing things up hill to get
:49:48. > :49:52.this done. We are seeing this problem more
:49:53. > :49:58.frequently. The climate is changing and we are seeing more extremes.
:49:59. > :50:03.Richard was talking about drought and the river drying up, in the
:50:04. > :50:05.lifetime of his ministerial career he had both extremes that he had to
:50:06. > :51:46.wrestle with, so we do need to What Michael Pitt said was it was
:51:47. > :51:51.too centralised and local authorities should be the lead on
:51:52. > :51:54.assessing flood risk running plans and working with local organisations
:51:55. > :51:58.and emergency services and the Environment Agency when flooding
:51:59. > :52:02.occurs. That's one of the things that's happened, better some areas
:52:03. > :52:08.than others. I spent time in Somerset last year and am quite well
:52:09. > :52:11.up on that issue. A large area sits below sea level. We should not be
:52:12. > :52:17.talking about flooding elsewhere in the United Kingdom in the context of
:52:18. > :52:24.what goes on in Somerset. Should we be more worried about
:52:25. > :52:26.agricultural land? 98% is protected, it is a link to present that will be
:52:27. > :54:06.affected. Should we be their door. Very often they have is
:54:07. > :54:12.sandbags. You mentioned agricultural land.
:54:13. > :54:16.There is an interesting debate now about the extent to which we
:54:17. > :54:19.incentivise farmers against the sort of ponds and trees that we see in
:54:20. > :54:24.the Newbury develop and on their land so that the water has somewhere
:54:25. > :54:27.to go and some are to be stored rather than rushing quickly off the
:54:28. > :54:30.land into the rivers and the rivers flooding the urban areas. I think
:54:31. > :54:33.that's a really good debate to be had.
:54:34. > :54:36.Thank you. Bus services are often a lifeline
:54:37. > :54:40.for many, especially in rural areas. But a growing number are no longer
:54:41. > :54:43.economically viable for the bus companies, which is why councils
:54:44. > :54:47.often provide subsidies to keep them running. Except with council budgets
:54:48. > :54:48.being pinched, those subsidies are increasingly coming under pressure.
:54:49. > :54:49.According to a According to a recent survey by the
:54:50. > :56:27.Campaign for Better Transport, unitary council cuts the bus
:56:28. > :56:32.subsidy, it doesn't make it big saving from the council's budget.
:56:33. > :56:37.The council is spending big money on things like home care for adults,
:56:38. > :56:42.education. Bosses are a small thing, but they had a big impact if you cut
:56:43. > :56:46.them. A particular service goes and
:56:47. > :56:51.someone relies on it. I saw someone talking about this isolation and the
:56:52. > :56:55.number of people who leave the house less than once a week, and of the
:56:56. > :56:59.bus service goes they have no option, have the?
:57:00. > :57:01.One of the things that has made a difference to those people is the
:57:02. > :58:45.introduction of the concessionary cavil scheme from 2008
:58:46. > :58:54.prioritise those. Southampton is a Labour authority,
:58:55. > :58:57.Reading, another Labour priority. Surely this should be readily later
:58:58. > :59:05.rather than just letting everyone for their own ways.
:59:06. > :59:11.Services used to be centrally controlled and they're now run by
:59:12. > :59:13.local authorities. I think they should be accountable to their local
:59:14. > :59:21.people for how these things are spent. We are trying to be localised
:59:22. > :59:21.and... But you don't add up the benefits
:59:22. > :01:04.that other people get. will be reduced. In Gosport, they
:01:05. > :01:11.are getting bigger, with 73% residents overweight. The council
:01:12. > :01:15.says it is on the case, encouraging GPs to refer people to fitness
:01:16. > :01:18.training. They don't know what they should
:01:19. > :01:20.eat, didn't you how to cook if you give them the money.
:01:21. > :01:27.Portsmouth has a surplus of ministers. Vince Cable visiting the
:01:28. > :01:32.city this week after declaring himself the real Minister for
:01:33. > :01:38.Portsmouth. I have overall response ability.
:01:39. > :01:43.Good news for badgers. Rather than reducing their numbers by culling,
:01:44. > :01:48.rock guitarist Brian May as a plan for vaccination using volunteers,
:01:49. > :03:24.starting out of a century he is establishing in Dorset.
:03:25. > :03:30.starting out of a century he is overheating? All questions over the
:03:31. > :03:37.weekend. Let's look at the politics of the flooding. Let me show you a
:03:38. > :03:44.clip from Eric Pickles, the Communities Secretary, earlier on
:03:45. > :03:50.the BBC this morning. We perhaps relied too much on the Environment
:03:51. > :03:54.Agency's advice. I apologise. I apologise unreservedly and I am
:03:55. > :03:59.really sorry we took the advice of what we thought we were doing was
:04:00. > :04:02.the best. The Environment Agency is being hung
:04:03. > :04:03.the best. The Environment Agency is Government and the Government has
:04:04. > :05:43.taken over Government and the Government has
:05:44. > :05:48.in autumn and then the water runs off the topsoil. You see the
:05:49. > :05:53.pictures of the flooding, it is all topsoil flooding through those
:05:54. > :05:57.towns. What you have got to have in the uplands is some land that can
:05:58. > :06:02.absorb that water and there are really big questions about the way
:06:03. > :06:05.we carry out farming. Chris Smith was meant to appear on the Andrew
:06:06. > :06:10.Marr show this morning, but pulled back at the last minute. There must
:06:11. > :06:14.be doubts as to whether he can survive to the summer. Where is the
:06:15. > :06:18.chief executive of the Environment Agency? I agree with Nick that Chris
:06:19. > :06:22.Smith has been Agency? I agree with Nick that Chris
:06:23. > :06:24.situation. David Cameron went Agency? I agree with Nick that Chris
:06:25. > :06:24.Somerset Levels on Friday for Agency? I agree with Nick that Chris
:06:25. > :08:03.half an hour, Agency? I agree with Nick that Chris
:08:04. > :08:08.in an eye operation, suggested a plan to fix this, they will find a
:08:09. > :08:12.lot of what they want or need to do will be in contravention of European
:08:13. > :08:21.directives. The Wythenshawe by-election. There is no question
:08:22. > :08:26.Labour is going to win, probably incredibly convincingly, one poll
:08:27. > :08:32.showing 60% plus of the vote. It would be surprising if Labour was in
:08:33. > :08:38.any threat up there. The issue is, does UKIP beat the Tories and if so,
:08:39. > :08:40.by how much? The latest poll was showing it in second place as nip
:08:41. > :10:25.and tuck, but the feeling honourable gentleman. Order, the
:10:26. > :10:30.Government Chief Whip has absolutely no business whatsoever shouting from
:10:31. > :10:35.a sedentary position. Order, the honourable gentleman will remain in
:10:36. > :10:43.the chamber. If we could tackle this problem. I say to the honourable
:10:44. > :10:47.member for Bridgwater, be quiet if you cannot be quiet, get out, it is
:10:48. > :10:58.rude, stupid and pompous and it needs to stop. Michael Gove. Order.
:10:59. > :12:44.You really... Order. needs to stop. Michael Gove. Order.
:12:45. > :12:51.tabloids. Something is clearly up. I think it is a real shame. I think
:12:52. > :12:55.many of us when he was elected did not think he would make a great
:12:56. > :13:00.speaker and there are people like Douglas Carswell and Tory rebels who
:13:01. > :13:04.have said he is a fantastic speaker. He has given the Commons room to
:13:05. > :13:09.breathe and he has called on ministers to be held to account when
:13:10. > :13:14.they do not want to be. What do you think? He is seen as anti-government
:13:15. > :13:21.and he is pro-backbencher and that is what people do not like. People
:13:22. > :13:24.like Douglas Carswell are actually very strongly in support of him We
:13:25. > :15:06.carry