:00:36. > :00:40.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Walls are being
:00:41. > :00:43.re-painted in Belfast as Gerry Adams begins his fourth day in police
:00:44. > :00:47.custody in connection with one of the most brutal and shocking murders
:00:48. > :00:59.of the Troubles. That's our top story.
:01:00. > :01:02.He may have got egg on his face this week but Nigel Farage is a serious
:01:03. > :01:04.electoral threat in this month's elections. I'll ask the Conservative
:01:05. > :01:07.Party Chairman Grant Shapps how worried he is.
:01:08. > :01:12.And we're on the trail of Nick Clegg. You were voted the best
:01:13. > :01:18.In the South: Independents took over likely to be a good
:01:19. > :01:22.In the South: Independents took over running the Isle of Wight council a
:01:23. > :01:24.year ago ` has it been 12 months of a new kind of politics, or more like
:01:25. > :01:30.herding cats? and independence. We have a table
:01:31. > :01:37.full of Euro candidates here to debate what it means for London.
:01:38. > :01:40.And with me, as always, the best and the brightest political panel in the
:01:41. > :01:42.business - Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. They'll be
:01:43. > :01:48.throwing metaphorical rotten eggs into the twittersphere.
:01:49. > :01:51.First this morning - Gerry Adams, President of Sinn Fein, has spent a
:01:52. > :01:54.fourth night in police custody after he was arrested in connection with
:01:55. > :02:08.the killing of Jean McConville more than 40 years ago. Sinn Fein has
:02:09. > :02:10.claimed that the arrest is politically motivated coming, as it
:02:11. > :02:13.does, during local and European election campaigns. Northern
:02:14. > :02:16.Ireland's deputy first minister, Martin McGuinness, has indicated he
:02:17. > :02:19.might review the party's support for policing in the province if Gerry
:02:20. > :02:22.Adams is charged. The Jean McConville murder was one of the
:02:23. > :02:24.most notorious cases of the Troubles.
:02:25. > :02:31.The widowed mother of ten was kidnapped from her home in December
:02:32. > :02:36.1972, never to be seen alive again. The IRA denied involvement but in
:02:37. > :02:43.1999 admitted it had murdered her and several others, known as the
:02:44. > :02:46.Disappeared. Before his death, the former IRA commander Brendan Hughes
:02:47. > :02:54.pointed the finger at Gerry Adams, claiming:
:02:55. > :03:08.In April this year, either Bell was charged with aiding and abetting the
:03:09. > :03:13.murder. -- Ivor Bell. Gerry Adams has always insisted he is innocent
:03:14. > :03:17.of any part in the abduction and killing all burial of Mrs
:03:18. > :03:20.McConville. We were hoping to speak to the
:03:21. > :03:23.Northern Ireland Secretary, Theresa Villiers, but having agreed to do an
:03:24. > :03:30.interview with us this morning, she pulled out. But we are joined from
:03:31. > :03:35.Belfast by Sinn Fein's Alex Maskey. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. And
:03:36. > :03:47.the police just doing their job by questioning Gerry Adams? Gerry Adams
:03:48. > :03:51.said publicly some time ago that he was available to speak to the
:03:52. > :03:57.police, but that is not what this is about at the moment, because what we
:03:58. > :04:01.have here is clearly evidence in our mind of political interference in
:04:02. > :04:05.what should be due process. Gerry Adams made it clear some time ago he
:04:06. > :04:12.wanted to speak to the police, it was available at any time, and yet
:04:13. > :04:15.that request was not taken up until three weeks into an election and we
:04:16. > :04:21.believe that was deliberately orchestrated by a small number of
:04:22. > :04:28.people. What evidence can you present this morning that proves
:04:29. > :04:35.that claim? The direct circumstances Gerry Adams finds himself in at the
:04:36. > :04:45.moment, take that in stark contrast when they have dealt with members of
:04:46. > :04:53.the British Army for instance... That is just circumstantial. The
:04:54. > :04:58.PSNI know that the soldiers involved in that and a number of other
:04:59. > :05:04.high-profile killings of citizens here, and not one of those people
:05:05. > :05:09.has been arrested. In fact any of the people who were interviewed were
:05:10. > :05:19.interviewed by request. There was a stark contrast, in terms of how they
:05:20. > :05:24.have dealt with the British military involving state killings. We haven't
:05:25. > :05:30.got too much time. Sinn Fein said it would review its support for the
:05:31. > :05:35.PSNI if Gerry Adams is charged. That sounds like political interference
:05:36. > :05:41.in the police process. It's not because we have a clear mandate from
:05:42. > :05:45.the people who elect us. Policing has been an important part of the
:05:46. > :05:52.peace process here for many years, Sinn Fein plays an important role in
:05:53. > :05:57.local policing partnerships. We negotiate to make sure we have
:05:58. > :06:03.powers transferred here to elected representatives in the north. It is
:06:04. > :06:08.a long way to go before we have policing highly accountable, and
:06:09. > :06:26.making sure they deliver a very impartial service. How will he react
:06:27. > :06:31.if Gerry Adams is charged? I am still trying to get a clear answer.
:06:32. > :06:37.If Gerry Adams is charged, will you withdraw support for the Northern
:06:38. > :06:42.Ireland police service? We view this as a serious situation and a serious
:06:43. > :06:47.ongoing situation and we will monitor how this pans out. We have a
:06:48. > :06:52.very important role to play to support the police service here. We
:06:53. > :06:58.have done consistently, worked with them on a daily basis, but we will
:06:59. > :07:03.not accept political interference by a small number of people in the
:07:04. > :07:11.police who are undermining the police. We will not accept political
:07:12. > :07:16.policing. If there was evidence, and I emphasise the word if, because we
:07:17. > :07:20.have seen none, but if there were evidence to justify Gerry Adams
:07:21. > :07:25.being charged, why should he not be charged? It is my understanding from
:07:26. > :07:31.the family of Gerry Adams that there has not been a single shred of
:07:32. > :07:40.evidence put forward. I understand that, but if there was evidence, why
:07:41. > :07:44.should he not be charged? You put that caveat yourself and then you
:07:45. > :07:49.expect me to speculate, there is no way I will do that. The fact of the
:07:50. > :07:54.matter is there hasn't been one single shred of evidence put to
:07:55. > :07:58.Gerry Adams in the last few days, in fact what has been put to him is a
:07:59. > :08:03.range of issues of newspaper cuttings, books, statements made
:08:04. > :08:06.from people, including from people who didn't want their statements
:08:07. > :08:16.released until they have died. who didn't want their statements
:08:17. > :08:24.was charged, again I emphasise the word if, does the police process
:08:25. > :08:28.fall apart? The police process is a fragile entity, it requires work and
:08:29. > :08:30.we have been saying this publicly and privately with the Irish and
:08:31. > :08:44.British and privately with the Irish and
:08:45. > :08:47.process has to be nurtured and developed. We are not out of the
:08:48. > :08:53.woods yet. From a Republican point of view we have been working flat
:08:54. > :09:01.out. I just wanted a quick answer to my question, is a yes or no? What
:09:02. > :09:05.question I asking me? Is the peace process in jeopardy? It is fragile
:09:06. > :09:12.and I am not going to have words put into my mouth but I don't want to
:09:13. > :09:18.use. It has to be worked out and nurtured. Thank you for joining us.
:09:19. > :09:24.Nick Watt, you were a Northern Ireland correspondent like myself in
:09:25. > :09:28.days gone by. Where is this going to go? It shows how challenging the
:09:29. > :09:32.peace process is because on the one hand you have the unspeakable pain
:09:33. > :09:37.of the McConville family, but you also have the danger of not having
:09:38. > :09:42.mechanisms to deal with the past. South Africa is a good example, you
:09:43. > :09:46.have to have some mechanism to deal with the past because if you don't,
:09:47. > :09:57.you are going to have, as Sinn Fein have now, someone in a police cell
:09:58. > :10:00.but you don't have the arrests of the Bloody Sunday soldiers.
:10:01. > :10:08.Paramilitary prisoners were released after two years... We have seen no
:10:09. > :10:14.action against somebody accused of the Hyde Park bombings, it is not a
:10:15. > :10:22.one-way street. We have the decommissioning of IRA weapons by
:10:23. > :10:25.the IRA, therefore destroying crucial evidence. You have these
:10:26. > :10:30.inconsistencies because you don't have an mechanism for dealing with
:10:31. > :10:35.the past, but doing that is really difficult because of the pain of
:10:36. > :10:40.real people. Don't you get a feeling that here in London they are hoping
:10:41. > :10:44.he will not be charged? Definitely because it would be nice if
:10:45. > :10:52.everything went away, but the civil case of the family is taken out of
:10:53. > :10:56.the hands of the police. You can see here a real failure in Westminster
:10:57. > :11:04.to see this as anything other than settled. David Cameron we know sees
:11:05. > :11:08.himself as a chairman. I was speaking to a friend in Northern
:11:09. > :11:13.Ireland who said he has never met Gerry Adams and I think this is very
:11:14. > :11:18.revealing. They consider this as a settled issue that will not trouble
:11:19. > :11:23.Westminster again. It would be, but the relatives of the disappeared
:11:24. > :11:27.don't want it to be settled. This points to the reality that the
:11:28. > :11:32.Belfast agreement probably had to be done, but the moral price at which
:11:33. > :11:37.it was purchased was far greater than we were willing to admit during
:11:38. > :11:42.the euphoria. For a country that prides itself by the rule of law to
:11:43. > :11:50.tolerate the early release of prisoners and former pal and
:11:51. > :11:57.military -- paramilitaries, I think was a very serious matter. As for
:11:58. > :12:01.the PSNI, it only exists because its predecessor failed to command the
:12:02. > :12:08.confidence of the nationalist community. It is a very big deal if
:12:09. > :12:20.even the PSNI ends up falling into the same trap. We have to is leave
:12:21. > :12:22.it there I'm afraid. It was the Conservative's local election
:12:23. > :12:25.campaign launch on Friday, and what did David Cameron focus on? Burning
:12:26. > :12:29.local issues like the state of our roads, rubbish collection or care of
:12:30. > :12:31.the elderly? No. It was Europe. The Prime Minister re-iterated again his
:12:32. > :12:35.promise of an in-out referendum on our membership of the EU in 2017.
:12:36. > :12:37.And it's being reported this morning that he will share a platform with
:12:38. > :12:42.Nigel Farage in a pre-general election debate. Here's what the
:12:43. > :12:50.UKIP leader had to say about the issue when he was on the Marr Show
:12:51. > :12:54.this morning with Ed Miliband. David Cameron very often makes these vague
:12:55. > :13:00.promises, then doesn't deliver afterwards. I don't think he has any
:13:01. > :13:07.intention of allowing me into any of these debates. Perhaps Ed Miliband
:13:08. > :13:12.wants to debate? We have got to have the TV debates as we did join the
:13:13. > :13:17.last general election. I think David Cameron is doing everything he can
:13:18. > :13:22.to wriggle out of them. It is up to the broadcasters but whether they
:13:23. > :13:33.invite Nigel. My main desire is that the debates go ahead. We are joined
:13:34. > :13:40.now by Grant Shapps. Will he be included? The debates were not
:13:41. > :13:43.without problems, they took place during the campaign period and
:13:44. > :13:49.disrupted the flow of the campaign, taking it out of the regions, people
:13:50. > :13:53.getting to speak to the leaders so a longer period for that would be
:13:54. > :13:58.helpful. I think they are good idea and they should go ahead, but all of
:13:59. > :14:04.the negotiation about who is involved is yet to happen. So it is
:14:05. > :14:09.not a done deal that Nigel Farage will be included? That needs to be
:14:10. > :14:14.negotiated with the TV companies. The Conservatives believe we should
:14:15. > :14:22.have debates, but exactly the format and the timing, all of the -- that
:14:23. > :14:28.will be debated in the autumn, but first we have European elections,
:14:29. > :14:35.the Queen 's speech and a Scottish referendum. The local election
:14:36. > :14:45.campaign was launched on Friday. Why did you talk more about Europe than
:14:46. > :14:49.local councils? Both are important. The local elections are critically
:14:50. > :14:55.important for people, their local services. It is easy to forget, for
:14:56. > :14:59.example, that the council tax has been largely frozen since this
:15:00. > :15:03.Government came to power, a big contrast to Dublin under the
:15:04. > :15:10.previous Labour government. So why did you go on and on about Europe?
:15:11. > :15:19.Let me show you the poster used to launch your local election campaign.
:15:20. > :15:23.There it is, and in-out referendum on Europe, the day of the local
:15:24. > :15:29.elections, where is the word local? Is it in small print? I hear what
:15:30. > :15:33.you're saying, I am happy to be here to talk about the local elections.
:15:34. > :15:38.But you are right, they are on the same day, and not many people know
:15:39. > :15:42.that only by voting conservative can you get an in-out referendum. --
:15:43. > :15:50.Conservative. UKIP cannot deliver, we can, it is the same date, so
:15:51. > :15:53.people... This was the launch of the local election campaign. Why does
:15:54. > :15:57.the Prime Minister have to keep on promising something he has already
:15:58. > :16:04.promised? The actual referendum would be in 2017. He promised it
:16:05. > :16:09.before, he keeps repeating it because he knows people don't really
:16:10. > :16:13.trust him. I think it is a question of the fact that, actually, unless
:16:14. > :16:18.you remind people that the pledges there, that the only way to get an
:16:19. > :16:22.in-out referendum is to vote for it, this is a critical moment at
:16:23. > :16:28.which we need people to vote for that referendum if they want it. It
:16:29. > :16:32.is not the case, as I saw this morning, being said by Nigel Farage,
:16:33. > :16:36.that a referendum was promised before and not delivered. There was
:16:37. > :16:44.no referendum in the last manifesto. There will be in the next one. There
:16:45. > :16:52.was a cast-iron guarantee, in the Sun in 2006. Let's just clear that
:16:53. > :16:57.up... Once the Lisbon Treaty... In the Sun article, he said, we will
:16:58. > :17:01.have a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. Clearly, because that treaty
:17:02. > :17:06.had been passed before the general election, it is difficult to have a
:17:07. > :17:13.referendum on something in the past. We joined Europe in the 1970s,
:17:14. > :17:16.having a referendum on that! Look, that is about the future. Our
:17:17. > :17:22.relationship with Europe is absolutely critical. Most people in
:17:23. > :17:27.this country feel, I was not old enough to vote in that referendum,
:17:28. > :17:30.most of those who voted, they voted for a Common Market, that is not
:17:31. > :17:38.what we have got. We want to continue the work we have been doing
:17:39. > :17:42.in the EU Budget, what did UKIP do? They voted against it. We want more
:17:43. > :17:45.of those powers brought home, and we will put it to a referendum, and
:17:46. > :17:51.people will have to vote Conservative to get it. We have been
:17:52. > :17:55.looking at new research, almost two thirds of Conservative members are
:17:56. > :18:03.considering voting for UKIP, almost two thirds. I have a simple message
:18:04. > :18:12.here, which is this. If you vote for UKIP... Can we have it up? 30% are
:18:13. > :18:16.likely, 30% are possible. That is why it is important we are making
:18:17. > :18:20.these arguments. If you vote for UKIP, you are voting to take us
:18:21. > :18:26.further away from returning powers to this country, further from a
:18:27. > :18:29.referendum. It is support for Ed Miliband becoming Prime Minister,
:18:30. > :18:34.and he will do exactly what Labour have always done - hand away powers,
:18:35. > :18:38.and away the rebate for nothing in return, giving Europe even more so
:18:39. > :18:43.over the day-to-day affairs in Britain. Why are so many people
:18:44. > :18:47.considering voting UKIP? It is to hold your feet to the fire, they do
:18:48. > :18:51.not trust you on a referendum, so they will vote UKIP to force you to
:18:52. > :18:56.tap in your line. We have a very tough line. If I had said four years
:18:57. > :19:01.ago that this government would manage to cut the overall EU
:19:02. > :19:05.budget, would take us out of the bailout fund that Labour got us
:19:06. > :19:09.into, passing a law that no more powers can go to Europe without a
:19:10. > :19:14.referendum, if I had said that, people would say, I do not believe
:19:15. > :19:17.it will happen. Not only have we done these things, we are promising
:19:18. > :19:21.and in-out referendum, and the only way to get it is to vote
:19:22. > :19:25.Conservative. Nigel Farage has said, we can't change anything in
:19:26. > :19:30.Europe, and it is no wonder that the president of the European Commission
:19:31. > :19:36.has said, we love having these UKIP MEPs, because they don't turn up and
:19:37. > :19:41.vote, apart from when they vote against the cut in the budget. It
:19:42. > :19:46.goes beyond UKIP in your party, because this research also showed
:19:47. > :19:50.that those Conservative members most likely to vote for UKIP, they said
:19:51. > :19:54.they do not feel valued or respected by their own leadership, and they
:19:55. > :20:00.regard David Cameron as ideological eat more remote from them than UKIP.
:20:01. > :20:09.What I would say is look at that list... Let me take that step
:20:10. > :20:17.further. What people need our series solutions to serious problems. When
:20:18. > :20:23.people vote for a UKIP MEP, I will say, which one of the 40% of the
:20:24. > :20:27.MEPs who got in for UKIP last time are you voting for, the ones above
:20:28. > :20:32.left or defected, the ones have gone to jail? 40% have ended up not
:20:33. > :20:36.delivering. People have a right to know what to expect when they vote
:20:37. > :20:40.in these elections. They can look at our record at home, and this goes to
:20:41. > :20:47.the point you have raised about what we have done in Britain to get this
:20:48. > :20:49.economy back on track, recover from Labour's recession. We are prepared
:20:50. > :20:57.to take those decisions in Europe as well. Presumably, active
:20:58. > :21:02.Conservative members, they know that, so why do they not feel valued
:21:03. > :21:06.by the leadership? I spend time going up and down the country
:21:07. > :21:13.meeting Conservative members, and they are on the doorstep, last
:21:14. > :21:18.weekend 150 out in Enfield campaigning for the European and
:21:19. > :21:23.local elections... Why are they keen on UKIP? When I meet somebody who
:21:24. > :21:30.says that, not necessarily a member... Have you met members of
:21:31. > :21:40.say they will vote UKIP? No, but a vote for UKIP is... Do not do it,
:21:41. > :21:45.you will end up with Labour having more control, handing away powers to
:21:46. > :21:51.Europe. 51-year-old meeting members who say they will vote UKIP, you
:21:52. > :21:56.must be out of touch. -- if you are not meeting members. Some of your
:21:57. > :22:00.members are thinking of voting UKIP. I spend huge amount of time
:22:01. > :22:05.travelling around, I just told you about this action day in Enfield,
:22:06. > :22:10.where we had an enormous turnout. Those members were on the doorsteps
:22:11. > :22:15.pointing out that you can only get reform in Europe by voting
:22:16. > :22:21.Conservative. Labour and the Lib Dems will not deliver, UKIP can't,
:22:22. > :22:24.Conservatives will. You have not got that message across, because a
:22:25. > :22:34.YouGov poll shows, on Europe, who has the best policies? Tories 18%,
:22:35. > :22:40.Labour 19%, UKIP 27%. On the economy, Tories 27%, Labour 23, UKIP
:22:41. > :22:46.4. Why don't you shut up about Europe and talk about the economy?
:22:47. > :22:50.Look, on the 27th of May, we have European elections, as well as local
:22:51. > :22:53.elections. If I don't talk about the European elections, you would say
:22:54. > :22:57.what you said at the beginning about not talking about the local
:22:58. > :23:01.elections! These are serious elections, and the point I am tried
:23:02. > :23:05.to make is that the issues at stake are not peripheral, they are not
:23:06. > :23:09.unimportant. Our MEPs have been battling to cut red tape from a
:23:10. > :23:12.European level on small businesses, the same thing this government has
:23:13. > :23:15.been doing for small businesses domestic league, where for example
:23:16. > :23:21.every small business owner watching this show knows they have got ?2000
:23:22. > :23:24.back in employment announced on national insurance contributions. We
:23:25. > :23:30.are doing it at home, we are doing it in Europe, and it is important to
:23:31. > :23:43.tie that together. Ireland that Mr Cameron saying, you should stop
:23:44. > :23:53.banging on about Europe... -- I remember. This is before the last
:23:54. > :23:58.general election, as in days for the Lib Dems, 18%. Even then, you didn't
:23:59. > :24:03.win the election, and now you are only three or four points ahead, it
:24:04. > :24:09.doesn't look good for you, does it? Even then, the poll did not turn out
:24:10. > :24:14.to be what it was on the day. No, that is what happens, that is the
:24:15. > :24:16.voting intentions now! You are in a worse position than a year before
:24:17. > :24:24.the last election, which you didn't win. We are almost proving the point
:24:25. > :24:28.that you can take a clip at any moment in time, not sounding like a
:24:29. > :24:33.politician, but the only poll that matters is on the day. In just over
:24:34. > :24:39.a year's time, people will have a completely different picture to look
:24:40. > :24:44.at than these opinion polls. We have an economy from being a basket
:24:45. > :24:48.case, the great Labour recession knocking 7% of this economy, hurting
:24:49. > :24:53.every family, to a point where we the fastest-growing economy in the
:24:54. > :24:57.developed world. In a year's time, I hope people will see that we are the
:24:58. > :25:01.people who've taken the difficult decisions, got the economy to the
:25:02. > :25:04.right place, more security for you and your family. Do not give the car
:25:05. > :25:09.keys back to the people who crashed it in the first place. If I had a
:25:10. > :25:14.pound for every time I have heard that! It is clearly not getting
:25:15. > :25:22.through. On the Pfizer attempted of AstraZeneca, Mr Miliband called this
:25:23. > :25:26.morning for a tougher public interest test such big takeovers. Do
:25:27. > :25:32.you agree with that or not? Let me be absolutely clear, if there is any
:25:33. > :25:40.kind of joining, we are in favour of British jobs, British aren't deep,
:25:41. > :25:53.expanding our pharmaceutical sector. -- R But what Mr Mallon and wants
:25:54. > :25:57.to do with rent caps, he is anti-business. -- Mr Miliband. He
:25:58. > :26:10.wants to take us back to the bad old those. -- bad old days. Should there
:26:11. > :26:14.be a bigger public interest test? We have seen some takeovers that people
:26:15. > :26:19.have criticised, but others, like Bentley, Land Rover, which have been
:26:20. > :26:24.very successful. Should there be a tougher test?! We will have tests
:26:25. > :26:28.that ensured this get-together becomes a great Anglo-American
:26:29. > :26:33.project, or it doesn't happen, but the Miliband approach is simply to
:26:34. > :26:37.be anti-business, anti-jobs and anti-job security. Grant Shapps,
:26:38. > :26:40.thank you. A challenging week for the Liberal
:26:41. > :26:44.Democrats with a local election campaign overshadowed by another row
:26:45. > :26:51.with the Conservatives about knife crime. Adam has spent the day with
:26:52. > :26:54.Nick Clegg on the campaign trail. How nice! Nick Clegg is taking me on
:26:55. > :26:58.a political mini break to the Cotswolds. Yes, we are getting the
:26:59. > :27:03.train. He wants to highlight what his party is doing in local
:27:04. > :27:08.government, and a personal passion of his in Europe. Graham Watson, the
:27:09. > :27:14.Lib Dem MEP for the south-west, has been running a campaign to have
:27:15. > :27:18.prunes recognised as a laxative. Is that Lib Dems battling for Britain
:27:19. > :27:22.in Europe? It is not our front page manifesto commitment! It is one of
:27:23. > :27:30.many things that Graham does, he does many other things. In fact, he
:27:31. > :27:35.is a good example of an MEP who took a pioneering role, for instance, in
:27:36. > :27:41.making sure... There is the proven world, but also the crime-fighting
:27:42. > :27:45.role. -- prune. He has done work to make sure that when British
:27:46. > :27:51.criminals flee justice, we can bring them back. And he has promoted
:27:52. > :27:55.prunes! First stop, a gorgeous country pub, but it turns out
:27:56. > :28:01.everyone is a journalist or a very on message activist. Dark days,
:28:02. > :28:06.being a Lib Dem in the last few years? Strangely not. If you find
:28:07. > :28:10.you are a Lib Dem deep down, you do not get that disheartened, because
:28:11. > :28:13.you know that, locally, you are doing so well for the people that
:28:14. > :28:18.you live next door to that, actually, I find I am almost
:28:19. > :28:22.impervious to what happens on a national level. I am mayor of
:28:23. > :28:27.Cirencester. Have you taken any leadership lessons from Nick Clegg,
:28:28. > :28:32.inspiring new in your leadership of Cirencester? I think what he has
:28:33. > :28:36.demonstrated his patience. It has been a tough time, he has taken a
:28:37. > :28:42.lot of flak, and as the mayor of a town, lots of people agree with you
:28:43. > :28:46.and a fair few don't. You are a full on mayor, he is just a Deputy Prime
:28:47. > :28:52.Minister, do you outrank him? I don't think so, he is in government,
:28:53. > :28:58.I am not. So our there any normal people in here? We are from
:28:59. > :29:05.Swindon, you cannot get more abnormal. Are you a big fan of his?
:29:06. > :29:10.No! What has he done wrong? I don't believe in his views at all. Where
:29:11. > :29:19.has he got to? Nigel Farage would have had a pint! At this time in the
:29:20. > :29:23.morning a copy was more appropriate. I have no time for a drink of any
:29:24. > :29:27.kind, because now we are off to look at a local traffic blackspot. This
:29:28. > :29:34.is amazing, like a Lib Dem election leaflet brought to life, Lib Dems
:29:35. > :29:38.pointing at a road. High-vis jackets! Next we had to giggle full
:29:39. > :29:43.bath, but there will be no Regency sightseeing for us, oh no, Nick is
:29:44. > :29:53.taking us to an abandoned wilderness. We have just had a
:29:54. > :29:57.health and safety briefing, we have been told to look out for
:29:58. > :30:01.dive-bombing seagulls and an angry fox. That is the sort of thing Nick
:30:02. > :30:06.Clegg has to put up with. He wants to talk about the economy but he has
:30:07. > :30:12.to dodge the day's beat new story, letters leaked by a Tory suggesting
:30:13. > :30:22.that Lib Dems are soft on knife crime. Isn't that a new kind of
:30:23. > :30:27.warfare? I just think it is silly. They may think they are clever by
:30:28. > :30:36.catching some headlines but they are not helping people who worry about
:30:37. > :30:42.knife crime, like I do. We work together... Just like the
:30:43. > :30:46.Coalition! This is a co-working space where different businesses
:30:47. > :30:52.share the same office. My time with the Deputy Prime Minister is drawing
:30:53. > :30:55.to a close. We haven't talked about the most important story of the
:30:56. > :31:04.week, that you were voted the best looking party leader and the most
:31:05. > :31:08.likely to be a good cook. Right, this is news to me and I can
:31:09. > :31:13.guarantee you that my scepticism of opinion polls has just been
:31:14. > :31:19.confirmed. Just as well because the more serious polls don't look great
:31:20. > :31:26.for him or his party. Goodbye, and thanks for the offer of a ride
:31:27. > :31:32.home! He is still walking. Malcolm Bruce
:31:33. > :31:37.joins us now. According to Lib Dem briefing documents, you are likely
:31:38. > :31:42.to choose -- lose a big chunk of your MEPs. If you lose a lot, what
:31:43. > :31:46.would that say about a party that boasts of its pro-Europe
:31:47. > :31:53.credentials? It would be disappointing because we have the
:31:54. > :31:59.most hard-working MEPs. The worry that we have is that people think
:32:00. > :32:06.the European Parliament is not important but it takes decisions
:32:07. > :32:10.that affect us. They would be disappointing for Britain as well as
:32:11. > :32:15.the Liberal Democrats. Isn't the problem that the more you bang on
:32:16. > :32:21.about your pro-European credentials, the more you slip in the polls? I do
:32:22. > :32:32.think so, we have two weeks to go and we are campaigning extremely
:32:33. > :32:36.hard. You are forced in the polls. I can tell you there are people out
:32:37. > :32:42.there who do believe Britain should stay in the EU and they are worried
:32:43. > :32:47.that other parties will take us out. The Liberal Democrats are clear, we
:32:48. > :32:52.want to stay in, we will work for reform and do it effectively. If you
:32:53. > :32:58.lose the Liberal Democrats, Britain's influence in Europe will
:32:59. > :33:02.be weakened. Your track record in Europe shows you have been
:33:03. > :33:09.spectacularly wrong again and again. In your 2009 manifesto you said the
:33:10. > :33:14.European Central Bank and the euro have been tried and tested over ten
:33:15. > :33:20.years providing a clear picture of the benefits of Eurozone membership
:33:21. > :33:24.and that proved to be nonsense. It was nonsense everywhere. Every
:33:25. > :33:30.developed bank in the world was tried and tested and failed. Europe
:33:31. > :33:34.may not be perfect, but the question people have to decide is if we are
:33:35. > :33:41.going to leave Europe and be isolated on RM, or use our influence
:33:42. > :33:47.to reform it from inside. We have allies, you work with them, that is
:33:48. > :33:52.something the Lib Dems do better than any other parties. Your 2004
:33:53. > :33:57.manifesto, you claim that being outside the euro would lead to job
:33:58. > :34:05.losses and reduced prosperity. You were just plain wrong, weren't you?
:34:06. > :34:12.Yes, but the reason is that to some extent the euro did not observe any
:34:13. > :34:16.rules and regulations when it was set up. That is why we never
:34:17. > :34:23.recommended Britain should join at the outset because the criteria had
:34:24. > :34:28.not been met. In 2001 Nick Clegg was writing to the Financial Times...
:34:29. > :34:35.Your track record is important. He wrote that the Tisch monetary policy
:34:36. > :34:39.is not all it is cracked up to be. Britain would gain greater control
:34:40. > :34:49.over its affairs by joining the euro. How wrong can he be? We have
:34:50. > :34:54.always argued that the currency had to abide by strict criteria. It
:34:55. > :35:00.hasn't done so and that is one of the reasons it has failed. We
:35:01. > :35:06.recognise there is no future for Britain joining the euro and we are
:35:07. > :35:13.not advocating it. Lets put your 2010 manifesto on the screen. I
:35:14. > :35:19.didn't say it was not our long-term interest. If Europe succeeds as an
:35:20. > :35:27.entity, if the euro becomes one of the world leading currencies, there
:35:28. > :35:32.will come a point when it may be justified. In the circumstances we
:35:33. > :35:36.are in the moment, there is no recommended timescale. Let's get
:35:37. > :35:42.this right. Despite the Eurozone crisis which has cost millions of
:35:43. > :35:46.jobs, countries that were teetering on the brink of bankruptcy, the
:35:47. > :35:52.Eurozone now facing stagnation and some countries on the brink of
:35:53. > :35:57.deflation, you still won't rule out Britain joining? We are ruling it
:35:58. > :36:01.out in the foreseeable future. You can miss the point that we are
:36:02. > :36:06.working as a coalition partner in government that has secured recovery
:36:07. > :36:11.for the UK, and working as Liberal Democrats in the parliament that
:36:12. > :36:16.have cut back the European budget in cooperation with others. What would
:36:17. > :36:24.the world look like if it were right for Britain to join the euro? You
:36:25. > :36:28.have 27 states at the moment, with too many countries still struggling
:36:29. > :36:32.to meet the criteria so until you have a strong and cohesive enough
:36:33. > :36:38.single Eurozone in which all the countries can meet that criteria,
:36:39. > :36:44.Britain is better off out. So a more centralised Eurozone, that is what
:36:45. > :36:48.you would like Britain to join? No, because it can only happen by
:36:49. > :36:55.consent. Any circumstances in which any further powers would be
:36:56. > :37:00.transferred from the UK to the EU, we would support a referendum. You
:37:01. > :37:03.have just said that for the Eurozone to work, it has to be more
:37:04. > :37:10.centralised and you said if that happens, that is what Britain would
:37:11. > :37:14.join. I didn't say that, I said it would require the consent of all
:37:15. > :37:21.member states to agree to the criteria. We certainly do not
:37:22. > :37:27.envisage joining in the foreseeable future. Since you are the proud
:37:28. > :37:34.party of in, why weren't you just give us a referendum on in or out?
:37:35. > :37:38.Because it has to have a context. What David Cameron is doing is
:37:39. > :37:43.dangerous because I think the major players like Britain and France are
:37:44. > :37:47.not keen on the idea of being bullied into reforms on the
:37:48. > :37:50.instigation of just one member state which is threatening possibility to
:37:51. > :38:00.withdraw. They will have to agree to rules... Just have it now. Do you
:38:01. > :38:04.want in or out? To have a referendum against no background is to put it
:38:05. > :38:09.out of context. We are in the middle of a crisis, a year away from the
:38:10. > :38:18.general election. We have made it clear... You said we are in the
:38:19. > :38:24.middle of the Eurozone crisis? So we are not in the middle of it? What's
:38:25. > :38:28.the middle? The reality is that the Western world has gone through a
:38:29. > :38:33.deep crisis. The UK is coming out of it, the Eurozone is coming out of
:38:34. > :38:39.it. Greece have been able to borrow on the markets in recent weeks which
:38:40. > :38:42.is a sign of success. It is in our interest is the Eurozone succeeds
:38:43. > :38:46.and recovers and we should be part of it but not necessarily on the
:38:47. > :38:50.same conditions as everyone else. The Liberal Democrats work with
:38:51. > :38:58.others to deliver Britain's interests and if they are not there,
:38:59. > :39:01.their interests will be undermined. You are watching Sunday Politics. We
:39:02. > :39:12.Welcome to Sunday Politics South ` now. Coming
:39:13. > :39:16.Welcome to Sunday Politics South ` my name's Peter Henley. On today's
:39:17. > :39:20.show the independent Isle of Wight. A year after Independents took over
:39:21. > :39:23.the running of the council, have we seen a new kind of politics
:39:24. > :39:27.emerging, or have the pressures of governing wiped the bloom off the
:39:28. > :39:31.independent rose? More on that shortly. First let's meet the two
:39:32. > :39:34.politicians who'll be with me for the next twenty minutes. Tony Page
:39:35. > :39:37.is the Labour Deputy Leader of Reading Borough Council, and Conor
:39:38. > :39:43.Burns is the Conservative MP for Bournemouth West. And we start today
:39:44. > :39:45.with a bit of a gamble. This week the government announced new
:39:46. > :39:48.planning powers for local authorities to control the spread of
:39:49. > :39:51.betting shops on the high street. I caught up with the minister
:39:52. > :40:01.responsible for the decision and asked whether it wasn't all a bit
:40:02. > :40:03.nanny state. This is a mixture of... You mentioned nanny state about
:40:04. > :40:07.responsibility to the individuals who have a gambling addiction. The
:40:08. > :40:11.planning system is more about how do we want our high streets to look and
:40:12. > :40:20.I want high streets to be a mixture of book shops, cafes, grocery
:40:21. > :40:23.stores, maybe one betting shop. Joining us now from our Westminster
:40:24. > :40:31.studio is Peter Craske from the Association of British Bookmakers.
:40:32. > :40:35.There has been quite a growth, 25% growth and it is suggested it is at
:40:36. > :40:39.the expense of local retailers. Is that correct question mark there
:40:40. > :40:43.hasn't been an increase overall, what is true is where we have seen
:40:44. > :40:52.in town centres big chains or other shops go, some good retail units
:40:53. > :40:59.have come up with good football. So, betting shops would want to get into
:41:00. > :41:04.those positions. `` footfall. It is often areas with low income. The
:41:05. > :41:10.minister said this is pocketing the pay families who cannot afford it.
:41:11. > :41:14.17% of all betting shops are located in areas classified as highly
:41:15. > :41:20.deprived, most are not in those areas. They are in leafy suburbs as
:41:21. > :41:24.well? You will find more betting shops in the centre of Reading or
:41:25. > :41:34.Bournemouth because they are highly populated areas. I use the phrase
:41:35. > :41:39.nanny state and this level of addiction seems to trouble the
:41:40. > :41:44.minister, does it worried industry? Absolutely. There were figures
:41:45. > :41:48.published showing problem gambling levels are falling but we think one
:41:49. > :41:53.is too many and we are committed to trying to help those people who have
:41:54. > :42:00.got into difficulty and preventing it happening through our new code.
:42:01. > :42:05.Does that involve shops clustering together? Shops will want to compete
:42:06. > :42:07.but the overall number of shops has not increased over the last ten
:42:08. > :42:14.years. What about the number of adverts
:42:15. > :42:19.online, one in 20 TV adverts for betting.
:42:20. > :42:27.It isn't an issue I can comment on. The issue is subject to public
:42:28. > :42:31.consultation. This is because it is the online
:42:32. > :42:35.people, your competitors? Absolutely, a mixture. There are
:42:36. > :42:44.many gambling products available now in different ways. The advertising
:42:45. > :42:49.standards agency which sets the rules and the government is
:42:50. > :42:56.consulting on whether... What to do about the number of adverts.
:42:57. > :43:02.Conservatives have built themselves as friends of the pub, are you
:43:03. > :43:06.friends of the betting shop? We are friends of Richard Smith
:43:07. > :43:12.businesses and we want to see people who enjoy gambling responsibly, I
:43:13. > :43:19.gamble twice a year at the Grand National. `` responsible
:43:20. > :43:22.businesses. We see evidence of clustering, estate agents and
:43:23. > :43:26.building societies and banks are closing and booking shops are coming
:43:27. > :43:30.in. Bournemouth council passed a motion, they were not saying stop,
:43:31. > :43:35.they were saying we know the community, we know what is best,
:43:36. > :43:40.please give us the powers to have the ability to stop and we think
:43:41. > :43:43.there are too many. Giving local communities and
:43:44. > :43:48.councils the power to force the gambling companies to apply for
:43:49. > :43:51.planning permission gives the authority the opportunity to put a
:43:52. > :43:58.brake on it where they think there are too many.
:43:59. > :44:01.You speak on this on the Local Government Association.
:44:02. > :44:07.We welcome the consultation. It isn't retrospective. Where there are
:44:08. > :44:13.12 now, it is only the 13th or 14th we would be able to control under
:44:14. > :44:17.these proposals. So, the other point we are concerned about and my
:44:18. > :44:23.commission is keen to ensure that any proposed changes address a wider
:44:24. > :44:25.picture `` wider picture for a healthy competitive environment on
:44:26. > :44:36.the high street which means diversity. I read in the Lytham
:44:37. > :44:39.Saint and express that the local Federation of Small Businesses are
:44:40. > :44:45.calling for powers to address the proliferation of charity shops. ``
:44:46. > :44:49.Lytham Saint Anne is. They are piling in on this consultation
:44:50. > :44:56.and... Charity shops...
:44:57. > :45:01.This has got to dress a wider picture. The consultation isn't just
:45:02. > :45:07.about betting shops, the minister is announcing a consultation about all
:45:08. > :45:12.of the classes so proliferation of takeaway is, I'm concerned about
:45:13. > :45:16.that because if you get a row of takeaway is which closed in the day
:45:17. > :45:20.and open at night they can cause anti`social behaviour in the same
:45:21. > :45:25.way betting shops might be related to payday loan activities and so we
:45:26. > :45:30.have to make sure. It is balance.
:45:31. > :45:34.We have a serious problem. We can have all the consultations we want,
:45:35. > :45:40.we have the rise of the internet taking traffic for high streets, a
:45:41. > :45:44.difficult economic period with disposable income falling putting
:45:45. > :45:48.retailers under pressure. The internet combined with difficult
:45:49. > :45:52.economic circumstances put the high street under pressure. Some of this
:45:53. > :45:56.is addressing staff which is outside the power of politicians and
:45:57. > :46:01.government to legislate. They say some of this is outside the
:46:02. > :46:05.power of legislation. I agree with both guests, we want a
:46:06. > :46:10.vibrant high street as much as anyone out. We suffer from online
:46:11. > :46:15.competition as much as anyone else. We are sitting on the commission
:46:16. > :46:18.that the council chairs and we want to contribute to work with people
:46:19. > :46:24.and we have lots of areas around the country where they may have issues
:46:25. > :46:28.and we want to do that. Nice to hear from you. The Isle of
:46:29. > :46:32.Wight's a year on from declaring its independence!! Well, sort of. In
:46:33. > :46:34.last May's local elections a group of independent councillors biffed
:46:35. > :46:37.the Conservatives out of office. And it seems like "independence fever"
:46:38. > :46:39.could be catching on the Island ` there was even a short`lived
:46:40. > :46:45.Independent parliamentary candidate recently. So has it seen the birth
:46:46. > :46:47.of a new kind of politics? Our Hampshire and Isle of Wight
:46:48. > :47:00.Political Reporter Jessica Parker's been to find out.
:47:01. > :47:09.Known for sailing and music festivals and prehistoric finds. It
:47:10. > :47:10.is England's largest island and the UK most populated parliamentary
:47:11. > :47:21.constituency. Perhaps the Isle of Wight is less
:47:22. > :47:27.well known for a recent political sea change. After years of wrestling
:47:28. > :47:31.between Conservatives and Liberal Democrats, last May a group of
:47:32. > :47:38.independence took control of the Isle of Wight Council. One year one,
:47:39. > :47:42.the revolution had extended to selecting an independent
:47:43. > :47:46.Parliamentary candidate. It is always been part of being an island
:47:47. > :47:55.that there is a fierce independence by nature and people here. Wendy
:47:56. > :47:59.Cook stepped down a week after coming under fire for her
:48:00. > :48:10.drink`driving convictions. Were you surprised at the reaction to a
:48:11. > :48:12.selection? No, not surprised. I was disappointed it completely
:48:13. > :48:16.overshadowed anything we wanted to achieve politically and anything I
:48:17. > :48:22.might have offered to make amends for my behaviour. Wendy says the
:48:23. > :48:27.convictions followed losing her home in a business deal gone wrong and
:48:28. > :48:32.three close brief mints. She realises it was something many in
:48:33. > :48:37.the end could not overlook. `` brief meants. There was a general
:48:38. > :48:42.disapproving `` this approval which is understandable however there were
:48:43. > :48:47.two or three isolated incidents which were of such a personal
:48:48. > :48:52.nature, not directed towards me but committee members of the association
:48:53. > :48:58.that I felt my staying on would put people at risk. The association that
:48:59. > :49:03.shows Wendy Cook is not the same as the group of independence running
:49:04. > :49:06.the council. Some of the Independent councillors are members of the
:49:07. > :49:13.association. But not the council group leader. Some Isle of Wight
:49:14. > :49:20.councillors belong to that organisation. I don't, but I will
:49:21. > :49:23.be. I think by doing that it gives support to other individuals and
:49:24. > :49:28.residents who may be able to contribute. Confusing? Perhaps but
:49:29. > :49:34.Ian Stevens says his group is making a difference with investment in
:49:35. > :49:40.improving school attendance rates. It is leading a group of
:49:41. > :49:46.independence akin to herding cats, Ian Stevens prefers a different
:49:47. > :49:51.analogy. A company boardroom, you don't ask anyone their political
:49:52. > :49:56.leanings or persuasion or even what faith they belong to. What you do is
:49:57. > :50:02.ask what talent and ideas and policies they can bring forward and
:50:03. > :50:06.the strengths they can bring, that is what independence brings to the
:50:07. > :50:12.local authority. The hopes were incredibly high. And I think the
:50:13. > :50:17.Independent have had a challenge meeting those. Simon Perry runs a
:50:18. > :50:22.news site. He says the independents won voters on a platform the change.
:50:23. > :50:27.I think they were elected because there was frustration with the way
:50:28. > :50:34.the schools are reorganised, there was a frustration at the level of
:50:35. > :50:40.cuts and the speed of cuts. And a loss of civic amenities. The
:50:41. > :50:43.Independent said it is uncertain whether it has changed, cats have
:50:44. > :50:51.continued but they have been called mergers, a change of language. The
:50:52. > :50:55.island faces some major challenges. Council cuts, struggling education
:50:56. > :51:01.standards, below average pay and a charge the island struggles to
:51:02. > :51:05.attract and retain talent. If this is a political revolution, it is a
:51:06. > :51:11.fairly quiet one. The question follows in any revolution, will it
:51:12. > :51:15.last? We have many things we want to prove `` improve on and three years
:51:16. > :51:26.will not be long enough. We want to get into another term and maybe
:51:27. > :51:32.another. Reading Council, is it run like a company boardroom?
:51:33. > :51:37.We have our own plans, we submit them every year because we have
:51:38. > :51:39.elections every year and we are quite transparent about the way we
:51:40. > :51:46.operate. You have to stick to the policy of
:51:47. > :51:52.the party. We agree it locally. We expect people to work to the
:51:53. > :51:56.common agenda but we are transparent about the proposals and that is the
:51:57. > :52:01.nature of local parties. They bring together people who agree on shared
:52:02. > :52:07.priorities and look to carry them out. I have some difficulty trying
:52:08. > :52:11.to understand how a group of independence can really run a local
:52:12. > :52:17.authority in an effective way because they don't know what the
:52:18. > :52:20.priorities are until they arrive. Most companies select their
:52:21. > :52:27.directors on the bases there have been some vetting and interviewing
:52:28. > :52:34.and some common commitment. I am not sure that happens with
:52:35. > :52:36.independents. It is not for me to criticise.
:52:37. > :52:43.They are popular and maybe what people like, the way they like Nigel
:52:44. > :52:46.Farage is the idea that it is a protest against conventional
:52:47. > :52:52.politics. What you think? Is there a sense the
:52:53. > :52:56.political parties are regarded as anti`democratic?
:52:57. > :52:59.I put this down to the expenses scandal, there is a major detachment
:53:00. > :53:05.from a large segment of the electorate to traditional party
:53:06. > :53:10.politics and to some degree the reaction of the election of the
:53:11. > :53:15.independents is part of the process. I struggle with this
:53:16. > :53:20.because when you get a group of independents elected forming an
:53:21. > :53:23.independent group and another association looks for an independent
:53:24. > :53:28.parliament candidates, that sounds very much like an embryonic
:53:29. > :53:34.political party. You think they should be more
:53:35. > :53:38.transparent? You are either independent voted on
:53:39. > :53:42.a particular issue and you get in to resolve that all you become a
:53:43. > :53:46.participant in the party political process. The fact one of the
:53:47. > :53:51.gentleman talked about wanting another term and one after that,
:53:52. > :53:54.that sounds not like a group resolving one problem, the schooling
:53:55. > :54:02.is a major problem which led to the election.
:54:03. > :54:05.They become part of the system. There were difficult choices to
:54:06. > :54:08.make. The bill to construct the first phase of HS2 had its second
:54:09. > :54:11.reading in the commons this week ` a large chunk of our region's
:54:12. > :54:14.Conservative MPs abstained and the Prime Minister rather strangely
:54:15. > :54:17.managed not to be there at all ` but even so it passed fairly comfortably
:54:18. > :54:22.because Labour is supporting it. So is that it all done and dusted?
:54:23. > :54:25.Well, maybe not ` Mike Kerford Byrnes has been campaigning against
:54:26. > :54:34.it for several years and joins us now from our Oxford studio.
:54:35. > :54:37.You argue about the compensation needed. Do you accept it is
:54:38. > :54:42.inevitable? Well, I have not been arguing about
:54:43. > :54:46.the compensation specifically, it is the whole principle to start with.
:54:47. > :54:50.Given the second reading has gone through, the emphasis and activity
:54:51. > :54:55.now is focused on trying to mitigate what will happen during the
:54:56. > :55:01.construction and subsequently during the operation because unlike the
:55:02. > :55:04.lucky folk in Reading and Bournemouth, we have to pay for it
:55:05. > :55:08.and live with it. We have some figures. `` you have
:55:09. > :55:14.some. Yes, I looked at 2010 and a number
:55:15. > :55:22.of electors per household, the number in Bournemouth and Reading
:55:23. > :55:28.and the electors of Bournemouth will contribute ?72 million towards HS2
:55:29. > :55:33.and the residents of Reading will contribute 150 more million pounds.
:55:34. > :55:37.You wonder how much infrastructure it can build around that area rather
:55:38. > :55:45.than somewhere else. You could do a lot with that money.
:55:46. > :55:49.Firstly, this idea there is ?50 billion floating around we could
:55:50. > :55:51.spend on something else, the money isn't floating around. We could
:55:52. > :55:55.spend on something else, the money isn't floating around. We're
:55:56. > :55:59.borrowing this money. Connect eight of the north of England. The
:56:00. > :56:04.government have got the argument wrong. It isn't so much about
:56:05. > :56:09.speed, it is about capacity. The line is full. If we are to have a
:56:10. > :56:14.national income and policy we need major infrastructure projects. Where
:56:15. > :56:19.I agree is we need to look at mitigation and some of my colleagues
:56:20. > :56:22.are doing a formidable job in lobbying the Department for
:56:23. > :56:29.Transport for effective mitigation. It feels inevitable. 2000 lorries a
:56:30. > :56:33.day for two years to build the line, one lorry every ten seconds.
:56:34. > :56:38.It will affect Reading and the South.
:56:39. > :56:43.We have nearly ?1 billion worth of new stations and investments in
:56:44. > :56:45.Reading part of a national infrastructure provision and all of
:56:46. > :56:54.these schemes require substantial planning and delivery times. I agree
:56:55. > :56:57.with what Connor said. I want a network of high`speed lines across
:56:58. > :57:03.the whole country, not just north and south.
:57:04. > :57:08.154 million in Reading. Our buses are the best in the
:57:09. > :57:12.country. We have the bus company of the year in Reading. That is because
:57:13. > :57:17.of good forward planning and investment. I don't buy the argument
:57:18. > :57:21.that you can spend money on something else because this is a
:57:22. > :57:28.long scheme, we're borrowing for investment which will last 150
:57:29. > :57:33.years. The payback on this is huge. They don't buy this. They would
:57:34. > :57:36.rather the money was spent building the railway line.
:57:37. > :57:42.If they want to build it, perhaps they would also contribute to making
:57:43. > :57:44.the impact less given the commitment by missed a Glock plan and missed
:57:45. > :57:54.the Hammond that they will mitigate the impact `` Mr Hammond. Add Mr
:57:55. > :57:59.MacLachlan. They are proposing to have the
:58:00. > :58:07.various construction compounds all the way along the line with
:58:08. > :58:13.continuous overnight lighting. Cha well district where I live, it is
:58:14. > :58:17.dark. They will have lights on for three years right around the clock
:58:18. > :58:25.because of the need to keep the compound is clear. The traffic issue
:58:26. > :58:28.is only just popped up recently. It was announced, the numbers were
:58:29. > :58:35.published for the first time in November last year. You talk about
:58:36. > :58:48.2000 lorries a day for two years at one junction of the M4 to. You did
:58:49. > :58:51.not mention the other areas. You say they should be on the
:58:52. > :58:56.railways. I agree with the spirit of what he
:58:57. > :59:00.says, the mitigation measures, we always cheapskate, we never put
:59:01. > :59:06.enough money into mitigation like the French and Germans and Italians.
:59:07. > :59:12.You should insist and I will support you that all the spoil and the
:59:13. > :59:18.equipment comes in by railway. This is a rail project.
:59:19. > :59:26.I understand what he's doing arguing for his community. Is his job to get
:59:27. > :59:33.in there and bang on the door and make the argument as to mitigate.
:59:34. > :59:36.We must leave it there. It is a high`speed discussion. Now our
:59:37. > :59:45.regular round`up of the political week in the South in 60 seconds.
:59:46. > :59:49.It should have been a flagship school on the Isle of Wight but
:59:50. > :59:54.faults in building work at Cowes Enterprise College could cost ?9
:59:55. > :59:58.million to put right. I can't pretend this is other than a
:59:59. > :00:01.scandal. The government flood envoy visited Hampshire admitting spending
:00:02. > :00:07.on flood prevention had fallen but hinting they might be more in the
:00:08. > :00:10.pipeline. The cheque isn't quite in the post
:00:11. > :00:14.but we're getting closer to the ink on the cheque.
:00:15. > :00:17.Cuadrilla face critics at a public meeting in Sussex, they want to
:00:18. > :00:22.drill for conventional oil, not fracking but local opinion is
:00:23. > :00:27.against them. It is 5,500 people saying no. It is
:00:28. > :00:30.a nail in the coffin of local democracy.
:00:31. > :00:36.Aylesbury town centre could be transformed by a ?15 million
:00:37. > :00:38.redevelopment. Businesses in the South are still waiting for
:00:39. > :00:52.superfast broadband, in Portsmouth out of 1000 firms are legible, only
:00:53. > :00:58.four have taken it up. We sped through the 60 Seconds.
:00:59. > :01:05.Things don't seem to be happening with this infrastructure. It is
:01:06. > :01:14.close to an election. Why didn't the spending on high`speed broadband,
:01:15. > :01:19.the new Sussex Hospital, why now? You could ask that question about 13
:01:20. > :01:22.years of Labour government or 18 years of Conservative government
:01:23. > :01:26.before. We make announcements when we are ready. The task of the
:01:27. > :01:32.Coalition Government is to deal with the economic problems we inherited.
:01:33. > :01:39.We have growth back. More jobs and encouraging growth figures. The
:01:40. > :01:45.broadband roll`out is happening. It is happening.
:01:46. > :01:50.It should be sped up. Broadband is essential to business activity.
:01:51. > :01:56.Especially in the south with small businesses. It should be given a
:01:57. > :02:00.higher priority. Thank you for coming in. That is all from us. Back
:02:01. > :02:08.to Andrew. on our website. That is all we have
:02:09. > :02:12.got time for this week. Next week, London's local elections.
:02:13. > :02:18.Welcome back. Now, the Government is not very good at predicting the
:02:19. > :02:21.future. That's according to a report from a committee of MPs this morning
:02:22. > :02:23.who say that its Horizon Scanning programme that's supposed to
:02:24. > :02:26.identify potential threats, risks, emerging issues and opportunities
:02:27. > :02:33.isn't much good at reading the tea leaves. But can it really be any
:02:34. > :02:35.worse than our panel? Here they are predicting the future of then
:02:36. > :02:46.culture secretary Maria Miller before Easter.
:02:47. > :02:50.Can she survive? I'm getting out of the prediction game after I said
:02:51. > :02:57.Nick Clegg would win the debates. But I almost think she might. If
:02:58. > :03:02.there is a big event that moves this off the front pages. David Cameron
:03:03. > :03:09.will want to keep Maria Miller until at least his summary shuffle. I
:03:10. > :03:16.think they will get rid of her. I think they will do the decent thing
:03:17. > :03:21.after exhausting all other options. Maria Miller resigned a few days
:03:22. > :03:28.later of course! The best and the brightest, when did that slip in?
:03:29. > :03:32.This week it will be exactly a year until the General Election, so what
:03:33. > :03:41.better time to get our panel to gaze into their crystal balls again.
:03:42. > :03:47.What's the outcome of the election in 2015? I'm going to go with the
:03:48. > :03:53.polls and say Ed Miliband as the Prime Minister. But the polls are
:03:54. > :04:01.only a snapshot of opinion now, you think they will be the same in a
:04:02. > :04:06.year? No, I think they will narrow. I think UKIP's vote share will fall.
:04:07. > :04:11.I think they are currently coasting on a high and that will tailor way
:04:12. > :04:22.so they won't take as many votes off the Tories. Labour with a majority
:04:23. > :04:27.or is the largest party. Another liberal Conservative coalition, and
:04:28. > :04:32.I say that because he is already in touching distance of Labour. I don't
:04:33. > :04:37.think UKIP will get 15, maybe half of that, and most of the votes they
:04:38. > :04:41.lose will either not vote at all go to the Tories and that should be
:04:42. > :04:47.enough to be the biggest party in a hung parliament I don't envisage a
:04:48. > :04:52.Tory majority. I am also going to go with the polls. For Ed Miliband to
:04:53. > :04:58.be hoping to win at this stage, he has got to be way ahead in the
:04:59. > :05:03.polls. Labour needs to be much further ahead if he is going to win
:05:04. > :05:07.so David Cameron, probably the leader of the largest party. Last
:05:08. > :05:11.time after the election David Cameron went to the 1922 committee
:05:12. > :05:16.and announced he was Prime Minister as head of the Coalition. He has
:05:17. > :05:19.agreed this time he will consult them and it will be much more
:05:20. > :05:26.difficult for him to get a coalition. People at home have now
:05:27. > :05:32.concluded there will be a Liberal Democrat landslide! Are we going to
:05:33. > :05:38.have debates? Yes, probably further away from polling day then last
:05:39. > :05:44.time. That is the Liberal Democrat point, isn't it? Yes, it sucks all
:05:45. > :05:48.the life out of the campaign, so the last six weeks will be left to
:05:49. > :05:54.traditional campaigning. What did you make of this in the Sunday Times
:05:55. > :06:01.this morning, this two, three, five formula. There should be a Cameron,
:06:02. > :06:14.Ed Miliband, Nick Clegg debate, then there should be another one with
:06:15. > :06:21.them and UKIP and the Greens. It might be testing the patience of the
:06:22. > :06:24.nation to tune into all of those. If you're going to say Nigel Farage
:06:25. > :06:30.should be there, the Green party should be too. They know that as
:06:31. > :06:37.soon as you put them on a podium next to them, he looks like he has
:06:38. > :06:42.equal stature and that is a problem. David Cameron does not want the
:06:43. > :06:47.debates to happen on the way they happened last time. It is generally
:06:48. > :06:50.regarded, Lynton Crosby believes they were a disaster for David
:06:51. > :06:57.Cameron because they allowed Nick Clegg to be the fresh person. He
:06:58. > :07:01.knows he cannot say no to them so the moment you see David Cameron
:07:02. > :07:06.suggesting that Caroline Lucas should be in the debate, you know he
:07:07. > :07:10.is not serious. What he will try to do is have more debates, have them
:07:11. > :07:13.outside the main part of the general election so that it doesn't
:07:14. > :07:21.dominate. The problem the David Cameron is that the campaign will be
:07:22. > :07:25.much longer. It is a five-week campaign so it is quite difficult
:07:26. > :07:29.for him to say we will only have one debate in that campaign. I think
:07:30. > :07:34.smother it with love, hopefully it will go to the courts for him and
:07:35. > :07:39.hopefully they will never happen and he will be delighted. The European
:07:40. > :07:43.election and the local elections are coming up. The three mainstream
:07:44. > :07:49.parties are saying it is a flash in the pan, they don't really matter
:07:50. > :07:54.and so on, but if UKIP comes a strong first, if Labour comes a poor
:07:55. > :07:59.second and the Tories come a poor third, it will have consequences for
:08:00. > :08:05.all three, and the Lib Dems come forth or even fish. It will have
:08:06. > :08:09.consequences and not just in the media but on the ground. One of the
:08:10. > :08:14.big stories is what will happen to the Lib Dems, they face losing all
:08:15. > :08:22.of their MEPs. A good result for them is lit -- in the local
:08:23. > :08:25.elections is losing 250 councillors. These are the most interesting
:08:26. > :08:32.elections we have had for some time. Are we heading for a Nick
:08:33. > :08:35.Clegg summer leadership crisis? I think we are heading towards
:08:36. > :08:39.reversing the clock back to where we were before the Eastleigh
:08:40. > :08:45.by-election. That quiet and things down for Nick Clegg. If they lose
:08:46. > :08:50.all their MEPs, and there is a real chance they will, Vince Cable will
:08:51. > :08:57.be out on manoeuvres because age is not on his side. If he can say Nick
:08:58. > :09:02.Clegg is a loser and a failure, he will be back. Will the Tories go
:09:03. > :09:19.into headless chicken mode if they come third? Yes, if UKIP come first
:09:20. > :09:24.there will not be as much panic as if Labour come first. Is Labour
:09:25. > :09:28.comes a poor second, will there be some pressure on Ed Miliband to
:09:29. > :09:33.reopen his attitude to the referendum? I don't think so and my
:09:34. > :09:38.colleague was talking to Labour sources who said he is absolutely
:09:39. > :09:42.not going to. That is something you can say definitely about him, he
:09:43. > :09:48.decides on a course and he sticks to it. There is one potential upside
:09:49. > :09:51.for David Cameron in a really bad Conservative results, it could
:09:52. > :09:55.strengthen his hand in the renegotiations of Britain's EU
:09:56. > :10:05.membership because he doesn't even need to say to Angela Merkel and
:10:06. > :10:07.Francois Hollande it is there. David Cameron hasn't just been fighting
:10:08. > :10:12.for his party into the local elections. He also got his knuckles
:10:13. > :10:16.wrapped by the Speaker, John Bercow, at Prime Minister's Question Time,
:10:17. > :10:23.for talking for too long. Take a look at this. There is a better
:10:24. > :10:27.future ahead of us but we must not go backward to the policies that put
:10:28. > :10:36.us in this mess in the first place. I don't know what they are paying
:10:37. > :10:50.him, Mr Speaker. Order, order. I haven't finished! In response to
:10:51. > :10:58.that question, the Prime Minister has finished and he can take it from
:10:59. > :11:03.me that he has finished. I can't remember a speaker ever speaking to
:11:04. > :11:08.a Prime Minister like that. Clearly in that case, John Bercow crossed a
:11:09. > :11:13.line. It is Prime Minister 's questions, he is entitled to answer
:11:14. > :11:17.the questions. There is really bad blood between those two, going back
:11:18. > :11:24.a long way. They hate each other and the worrying thing about that was
:11:25. > :11:30.the look of triumphalism on the speaker's face afterwards. He is a
:11:31. > :11:34.remarkable, revolutionary speaker who has made the House of Commons
:11:35. > :11:39.more relevant, he is holding the executive to account, but that look
:11:40. > :11:44.on his face showed he had crossed the line. Does he survive after the
:11:45. > :11:47.next election? He has improved the importance of the Commons, is that
:11:48. > :11:53.enough to keep him in the Speaker 's chair? The most public bit of the
:11:54. > :12:00.Commons is still the Prime Minister 's questions, and we can conclude
:12:01. > :12:06.that John Bercow's interventions take more time than any delays he
:12:07. > :12:15.complains about so I wouldn't be surprised if, in a few years' time,
:12:16. > :12:22.someone else replaces him. He is quite popular with Labour, is he
:12:23. > :12:26.not? Yes, he is married to a Labour activist and is notably sympathetic
:12:27. > :12:31.to Labour but I think this is a difficult situation. David Cameron
:12:32. > :12:37.also overstepped the line. As soon as the speaker says order, the idea
:12:38. > :12:42.is that the House was to order and David Cameron pushed him. They are
:12:43. > :12:46.both trying to score points off each other. We cover Prime Minister 's
:12:47. > :12:55.questions every week on the daily politics, and there is a danger that
:12:56. > :12:59.he sees it as an opportunity to do some grandstanding. You slightly
:13:00. > :13:03.sends his vanity gets the better of him. It is supposed to be Prime
:13:04. > :13:08.Minister 's questions. At the end of that session, the Speaker read out a
:13:09. > :13:14.statement from the Chief clerk, and immensely respected figure, saying
:13:15. > :13:18.he is taking early retirement. It is pretty clear that the reason he has
:13:19. > :13:21.decided to go early is because he is finding it tricky to maintain a
:13:22. > :13:26.cordial relationship with the speaker, and the speaker might want
:13:27. > :13:30.to think about his man management skills. That's all for today. The
:13:31. > :13:33.Daily Politics will be back on BBC Two at lunchtime from Tuesday
:13:34. > :13:36.onwards. Remember, it is a bank holiday tomorrow. I'll be back here
:13:37. > :13:38.at 11am next week. Remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday
:13:39. > :13:43.Politics.