:00:34. > :00:40.Up to a million public sector workers will strike this week.
:00:41. > :00:43.It's one of the biggest walk-outs since 201 .
:00:44. > :00:46.The country's top trade unionist Frances O'Grady and
:00:47. > :00:51.Tory Business Minister Matt Hancock go head-to-head.
:00:52. > :00:54.The Tour de France seems to have cheered him up - just as well
:00:55. > :00:58.for the Deputy Prime Minister hasn't got much else to smile about.
:00:59. > :01:00.Nick Clegg joins me live from Sheffield to discuss the
:01:01. > :01:07.Just over ten weeks until Scotland determines its future.
:01:08. > :01:10.The man leading the campaign AGAINST independence, Alistair Darling,
:01:11. > :01:14.joins me from Edinburgh. In the South...
:01:15. > :01:34.And with me throughout the show three top-flight political
:01:35. > :01:37.journalists always ahead of the peleton - Nick Watt,
:01:38. > :01:51.They'll be tweeting faster than Tour de France cyclists can pedal.
:01:52. > :01:53.The news is dominated this morning by stories swirling
:01:54. > :01:57.around allegations of an historic Westminster paedophile ring.
:01:58. > :01:59.Concern has grown because of the disappearance of a dossier
:02:00. > :02:01.handed over to the Home Office in 1983, along with over 100 official
:02:02. > :02:04.files related to it and possibly containing details of historic child
:02:05. > :02:09.Labour is calling for a public inquiry led by a child protection
:02:10. > :02:14.But speaking earlier on The Andrew Marr Show this morning
:02:15. > :02:19.the Education Secretary Michael Gove ruled that out.
:02:20. > :02:25.The most important thing that we need to do is ensure that the due
:02:26. > :02:29.process of law pursues those who may be guilty of individual crimes and
:02:30. > :02:33.we also learn lessons about what may or may not have gone wrong in the
:02:34. > :02:36.past, but it is also important to emphasise that many of the
:02:37. > :02:41.allegations that are being made are historic. And what we do now in
:02:42. > :02:46.order to keep children safer is better and stronger than was the
:02:47. > :02:49.case when 20 or 30 years ago. Without getting into a boring
:02:50. > :02:54.tit-for-tat, public inquiry, "yes" or "no"? No. Helen, can the
:02:55. > :02:59.Government go on resisting calls for a full-scale inquiry? It is very
:03:00. > :03:02.hard. There are cynical and non-cynical reasons for calling for
:03:03. > :03:06.an inquiry. The cynical one allows you to say I can't comment on this.
:03:07. > :03:11.The non-cynical is it manages to get people to air allegations in a way
:03:12. > :03:15.that is safe. What we saw at the Leveson Inquiry was helpful, people
:03:16. > :03:19.who felt they had been shut out from justice getting a chance to tell
:03:20. > :03:23.their side of the story. A public inquiry in this case is a good idea.
:03:24. > :03:27.Labour have called for a lot of public inquiries. A list was made in
:03:28. > :03:34.2012 of how many they called for. Not only Savile, but the West Coast
:03:35. > :03:37.Main Line and breast implants. On this particular issue, the people
:03:38. > :03:40.don't trust the politicians, they don't trust the police either
:03:41. > :03:45.because they may have been complicit in a cover-up. They may not trust
:03:46. > :03:49.the Home Office who we are told some of their officials were mentioned in
:03:50. > :03:53.the dossier? That is what David Cameron is hanging on to. This is a
:03:54. > :03:57.matter now because they are alleged criminal activity, it is for the
:03:58. > :04:02.police to investigate. In that big piece in the Sunday Times, Tim
:04:03. > :04:03.Shipman reports one of the people making the allegations lives in the
:04:04. > :04:06.United States making the allegations lives in the
:04:07. > :04:09.been out to the United States to interview him. The Prime Minister
:04:10. > :04:10.would say that is how serious the police are taking it. The problem
:04:11. > :04:16.for the Prime Minister - he police are taking it. The problem
:04:17. > :04:20.allergic to big public inquiry. His finest moment was his response to
:04:21. > :04:20.the Bloody Sunday inquiry shortly after he became Prime
:04:21. > :04:34.inrequest -- that inquiry took 2 years to report. The problem is the
:04:35. > :04:40.dossier has gone missing, the files have gone missing, more allegations
:04:41. > :04:42.keep coming out either directly or indirectly. It doesn't look like it
:04:43. > :04:50.is going to go away? The fact the dossiers are missing means it is
:04:51. > :04:54.inappropriate for the Home Office to be investigating this. There is
:04:55. > :04:54.inappropriate for the Home Office to a police investigation. If after
:04:55. > :05:02.that, there are questions unanswered which can only be answered by
:05:03. > :05:02.that, there are questions unanswered public inquiry, or which require
:05:03. > :05:05.resources that can only be commanded by a public inquiry, I could see the
:05:06. > :05:11.case for going down that road. I fear that sometimes in this country
:05:12. > :05:15.we invest almost supernatural powers in what a public inquiry can do I
:05:16. > :05:20.wonder whether there is another example of a country that goes
:05:21. > :05:23.through this stale ritual every few years of a scandal emerging, the
:05:24. > :05:27.opposition calling for an inquiry, the Government saying no and then
:05:28. > :05:31.holding the line or giving in. I don't know what we think this
:05:32. > :05:36.inquiries can do. It comes back to your point, Helen, you should be
:05:37. > :05:41.careful what you call an inquiry on so it doesn't devalue the concept.
:05:42. > :05:43.On Thursday up to a million public sector workers - including teachers,
:05:44. > :05:45.firemen and council workers - will go on strike.
:05:46. > :05:48.Their unions have differing gripes but the fact they're all striking
:05:49. > :05:50.on the same day is designed to send a strong message to the government.
:05:51. > :05:52.As the economy picks up again they're demanding an end
:05:53. > :05:59.Growth has returned strongly to the UK economy
:06:00. > :06:02.and unemployment is at its lowest level for more than five years.
:06:03. > :06:04.So why is there still talk of austerity
:06:05. > :06:10.The deficit is coming down but much more slowly than the government
:06:11. > :06:17.And accumulated deficits - the national debt -
:06:18. > :08:16.the public sector? We need to keep public spending under control and
:08:17. > :08:19.pay restraint is one of the main ways of being able... The answer is
:08:20. > :08:22.yes? The answer is this is necessary. The answer is yes, this
:08:23. > :08:25.is necessary. It isn't because we want to. We have to. This strike
:08:26. > :08:29.isn't going to change the Government's mind, is it? It does
:08:30. > :08:32.seem like the Government isn't listening. We have had years... They
:08:33. > :08:36.are listening, they just don't agree. Ordinary people, including
:08:37. > :08:40.those in the public sector, are finding it really tough. What really
:08:41. > :08:45.sticks in the throat is the idea that money can be found to give tax
:08:46. > :08:51.cuts to billionaires, to millionaires and to big
:08:52. > :08:57.corporations. But it can't be found to help 500,000 workers in local
:08:58. > :08:59.government, dinner ladies, school meal workers, lollipop men and women
:09:00. > :09:03.who are earning less than the living wage. What do you say to that? We
:09:04. > :09:07.have protected those who are the least well-paid in the public
:09:08. > :09:11.sector. But this is about a long-term... How can you? Hold on.
:09:12. > :09:15.You have said you have protected them. This involves ordinary people,
:09:16. > :09:23.many watching this programme, they have had a 1% pay rise in some cases
:09:24. > :09:29.since 2010. The average gas bill is up 57%, electric bill up 22%, food
:09:30. > :09:35.costs up 16%, running a car 11% in what way have you protected people
:09:36. > :09:40.from spending they have to make Firstly, you read out the average
:09:41. > :09:43.increases in public sector pay. That has had the biggest impact at the
:09:44. > :09:48.top end and those at the bottom end have been best protected, as best we
:09:49. > :09:52.could. Of course, we have also taken two million people out of income tax
:09:53. > :09:56.and increased the income tax threshold which has a big positive
:09:57. > :10:00.impact. We have frozen and then cut fuel duty, which would have been 20
:10:01. > :10:04.pence higher. I wanted to take on this point about priorities. We have
:10:05. > :10:09.got to make sure that we get the economy going at the same time and
:10:10. > :10:15.we raised more money from those at the top than we did before 2010
:10:16. > :10:19.partly because we have encouraged them to invest. And this is a really
:10:20. > :10:24.important balance of making sure we get the books back in order, we have
:10:25. > :10:29.stability for family finances and we get the economy going. Why not
:10:30. > :10:33.spread the living wage? We know you could pay for that pay increase
:10:34. > :10:37.itself if you spread the living wage through the private sector and
:10:38. > :10:43.guarantee... The living wage being above the minimum wage? Absolutely.
:10:44. > :10:51.?7.65 in the rest of the country, ?8.80 in London. What is the answer?
:10:52. > :10:58.I'm a fan of the minimum wage. But not for public sector workers. Being
:10:59. > :11:01.able to pay low-paid workers as much as possible within the constraints
:11:02. > :11:04.of the public finances is something I have pushed very hard. The
:11:05. > :11:10.evidence we can increase the minimum wage has to be balanced which the
:11:11. > :11:17.Low Pay Commission do with the impact on the number of jobs... Even
:11:18. > :11:22.after a pay freeze for quite a while among public sector workers, they
:11:23. > :11:31.are still paid 15% on average more than those in the private sector?
:11:32. > :11:35.That is not true. It is, according to the ONS figures. I read that
:11:36. > :11:39.report this morning. If you look at the whole package, what they are
:11:40. > :11:48.saying is public service workers are worse off. Average earnings in the
:11:49. > :11:54.public sector are ?16.28 an hour compared to ?14.16 private. You are
:11:55. > :11:57.comparing apples and pears. It's the kind of jobs and the size of the
:11:58. > :12:03.workplace that people work in. They are still overall on average better
:12:04. > :12:08.off? Lower paid workers tend to be better off because unions negotiate
:12:09. > :12:16.better deals for lower paid workers. They are more unionised in the pry
:12:17. > :12:21.private sector. The public sector is worse off. This is a political
:12:22. > :12:24.strike, isn't it? There is a whole disparate range of reasons. The
:12:25. > :12:29.strike is saying that you are against this Government, that is
:12:30. > :12:32.what this is about? I this I what firefighters, local government
:12:33. > :12:36.workers and health workers who are protesting, too, alongside teachers
:12:37. > :12:40.are saying is that this Government is not listening, it is out of
:12:41. > :12:44.touch, people can't carry on having cuts in their living standards
:12:45. > :12:49.depending on benefits. When will the public sector worker ever get a real
:12:50. > :12:55.increase in their pay under a Conservative Government? Well, we
:12:56. > :13:00.certainly hope to have the books balanced by 2018. Not before then?
:13:01. > :13:05.2018 is when we hope to be able to be in surplus. It is testament. .
:13:06. > :13:14.So, no real pay increase for public sector workers before 2018?
:13:15. > :13:18.Interestingly, this isn't just about the Conservatives and the Lib Dems,
:13:19. > :13:22.the Labour Party leadership have said it is a test of their
:13:23. > :13:25.credibility that they support the squeeze on public sector pay. I look
:13:26. > :13:29.forward to them, they ought to come out and say very clearly that these
:13:30. > :13:32.strikes are wrong and they are against the strikes and stop taking
:13:33. > :13:38.union money. It is a democratic right. Hold on. They are - they
:13:39. > :13:46.think the policy of pay restraint is necessary. Alright. On this point
:13:47. > :13:51.about democracy... Ask yourself why so many ordinary decent public
:13:52. > :13:58.service workers are so fed up. They have seen so many billions of pounds
:13:59. > :14:09.wasted through outsourcing to organisations like G4 S. In Unite
:14:10. > :14:16.and UNISON the turnout in this vote was under 20%. Alright. OK. One
:14:17. > :14:19.final question... Hold on. You said millions and millions voted on
:14:20. > :14:24.this... I want to ask you this question. Is the story in the Mail
:14:25. > :14:29.on Sunday today that Mr Cameron s planning a big crackdown on the
:14:30. > :14:34.unions over balloting, is that true? Well, strikes like this... I know
:14:35. > :14:38.the cases, is it true you are going to dhang the law? Strikes like this
:14:39. > :14:42.make that argument stronger. The Conservative Party is in Government
:14:43. > :14:44.on the basis of 23% of the electorate... We have run out of
:14:45. > :14:48.time. Thank you very much. "Should Scotland be
:14:49. > :14:51.an independent country?" That's the question the people of
:14:52. > :14:53.Scotland will answer in a referendum If the polls are to be believed
:14:54. > :14:57.the voters will answer "no". But in 2011 - ten weeks before
:14:58. > :14:59.the Holyrood elections - the polls told us that Labour was going to win
:15:00. > :15:01.and look what happened there - a Alistair Darling is leading
:15:02. > :15:24.the campaign against independnence. is one that puts the matter of
:15:25. > :15:30.independence to bed for a generation. In numerical terms, what
:15:31. > :15:35.would that be? We need a decisive result in September, I think we will
:15:36. > :15:39.get that provided we get our arguments across in the next couple
:15:40. > :15:45.of months. What would it be in figures? I am not going to put a
:15:46. > :15:51.number on it. People will look at it and say, OK, you have had two and a
:15:52. > :15:56.half years of debate and Scotland has now decided. The polls may be
:15:57. > :16:00.encouraging at the moment but I am not complacent, there is still a
:16:01. > :16:06.long way to go. Speculating... If you don't want to answer that, that
:16:07. > :16:12.is fair enough. Your side claims that a vote for independence is a
:16:13. > :16:17.vote for massive uncertainty but if it is a no vote there is lots of
:16:18. > :16:20.uncertainty too. All of the Westminster parties are promising
:16:21. > :16:27.devolution but there is no timetable, no certainty. Yes, there
:16:28. > :16:34.is. For the first time I can remember, all three parties are more
:16:35. > :16:40.or less on the same page in terms of additional powers, we already have
:16:41. > :16:44.powers in terms of policing and transport, now more powers are
:16:45. > :16:52.planned in relation to tax and welfare. But you are all saying
:16:53. > :16:55.different things. Between 2009 and 2012, the three parties have
:16:56. > :17:00.slightly different proposals but they came together and there was an
:17:01. > :17:08.agreed series of reforms in relation to tax which are now on the statute
:17:09. > :17:12.book. If you go back to the devolutionary settlement in 199 ,
:17:13. > :17:17.people unified around a single proposition so there is history here
:17:18. > :17:20.and these three parties have delivered and they will deliver in
:17:21. > :17:27.the event of people saying we will stay part of the UK. If Scotland
:17:28. > :17:31.vote no to independence, when will Scotland get these extra powers I
:17:32. > :17:36.would imagine that in the general election all three parties will have
:17:37. > :17:40.something in their manifesto and you would expect to see legislation in
:17:41. > :17:44.the session of Parliament that follows that. Imagining is not
:17:45. > :17:50.certainty. Because the three parties have said this is what they will do,
:17:51. > :17:55.and it is important having said that they stick to it. If you look in the
:17:56. > :18:02.past when the Nationalists said the same thing, when they cast doubt
:18:03. > :18:06.over what would happen in 2012, we delivered. The only party that
:18:07. > :18:10.walked out of both of these discussions were the Nationalists
:18:11. > :18:15.because they are not interested in more powers, they want a complete
:18:16. > :18:20.break. You cannot say that if Edinburgh gets more devolution that
:18:21. > :18:26.wouldn't mean fewer Scottish MPs in Westminster, can you? Nobody has any
:18:27. > :18:33.plans to reduce the number of MPs. If you step back from this moment,
:18:34. > :18:36.what people have been asked to do in September is to vote on the future
:18:37. > :18:42.of their country, Scotland, and whether we should be part of the UK.
:18:43. > :18:45.When I say part of the UK, full members of the UK with
:18:46. > :18:49.representation in the House of Commons and the institutions that
:18:50. > :18:56.affect our lives. This is a critically important vote. We want
:18:57. > :19:00.to see more decentralisation of power to Scotland, and to local
:19:01. > :19:05.authorities within Scotland, but we don't want a complete break with the
:19:06. > :19:10.uncertainties, the risks and the downright disadvantages that would
:19:11. > :19:20.throw Scotland's away if we were to make that break. The economic
:19:21. > :19:38.arguments are dominating people s thinking, the polls show, that is
:19:39. > :19:42.what is dominating at the moment. You cannot guarantee continued
:19:43. > :19:48.membership of the European Union given all the talk now about an
:19:49. > :19:53.in-out UK referendum. Firstly I don't think anyone has ever argued
:19:54. > :19:57.Scotland wouldn't get back in. The big question is the terms and
:19:58. > :20:01.conditions we would have to meet and we are applying to get into
:20:02. > :20:08.something that is established, it wouldn't be a negotiation. What we
:20:09. > :20:12.have said is there is no way Europe would let Scotland keep the rebate
:20:13. > :20:19.which Scotland has, there would be big questions over whether we have
:20:20. > :20:24.to join the euro, and other terms and conditions. The European Union
:20:25. > :20:29.does not act with any great speed, on average it takes eight and a half
:20:30. > :20:33.years to get into Europe. I don t want that uncertainty or the
:20:34. > :20:40.disadvantages that would come Scotland's away that come with
:20:41. > :20:46.losing clout in the European Union. The second point you asked me about
:20:47. > :20:50.is in relation to the UK's membership of the European Union,
:20:51. > :21:00.and if you look at polls, the majority of people still want to
:21:01. > :21:05.stay in the UK. Frankly, a lot of people on my side didn't make the
:21:06. > :21:11.argument against independence for a long time, we have been doing that
:21:12. > :21:17.over the last two and a half years and we are making progress and that
:21:18. > :21:20.is why I can say I think we will win provided we continue to get our
:21:21. > :21:25.arguments across. Similarly with the European Union, the case needs to be
:21:26. > :21:32.made because it is a powerful case. Isn't it true that the Nationalists
:21:33. > :21:40.win either way? They win if it is a yes vote, and they win if it is a no
:21:41. > :21:47.vote. They wanted devolution max so they win either way. There is a
:21:48. > :21:51.world of difference between devolution and further devolution
:21:52. > :21:57.where you remain part of the UK There is a world of difference
:21:58. > :22:01.between that and making a break where Scotland becomes a foreign
:22:02. > :22:06.country to the rest of the UK. You lose that security and those
:22:07. > :22:16.opportunities. You lose the same currency, the opportunity with
:22:17. > :22:20.pensions and so on. They are entitled to argue this case with
:22:21. > :22:26.passion, they want a break, but the two things are worlds apart. Gordon
:22:27. > :22:30.Brown said that the no campaign was too negative, have you adjusted to
:22:31. > :22:35.take that criticism into account? Ever since I launched this campaign
:22:36. > :22:41.over two years ago I said we would make a strong powerful case for
:22:42. > :22:47.remaining part of the UK. Look at our research, where we have had
:22:48. > :22:52.warnings from people to say that if we do well with research in Scotland
:22:53. > :22:57.we get more than our population share of the grand and we gain from
:22:58. > :23:02.that. There is a positive case but equally nobody will stop me from
:23:03. > :23:06.saying to the Nationalists, look at the assertions you make which are
:23:07. > :23:10.collapsing like skittles at the moment. Their assertions don't stand
:23:11. > :23:16.up. They assert that somehow milk and honey will be flowing. It is
:23:17. > :23:22.perfectly healthy within a referendum campaign to say that what
:23:23. > :23:38.you are saying simply isn't true. You have been negative, we all know
:23:39. > :23:48.about the so-called Cyber Nats book you compared Alex Salmond to the
:23:49. > :23:53.leader of North Korea. On! The context was that Alex Salmond was
:23:54. > :23:58.being asked why it was that UKIP had additional seat and he appeared to
:23:59. > :24:04.blame television being been doing from another country, from BBC South
:24:05. > :24:13.of the border. If you cannot have humour in a debate, heaven help us.
:24:14. > :24:17.I think it is important in this debate that people from outside
:24:18. > :24:22.politics should be allowed to have their say whatever side they are on
:24:23. > :24:27.because that will make for a far better, healthier debate. Nobody
:24:28. > :24:32.should be put in a state of fear and alarm by worrying about what will
:24:33. > :24:37.happen if they stand up. Despite the nastiness, more and more people are
:24:38. > :24:45.making a stand. We have run out of time. Thank you.
:24:46. > :24:53.I will be talking to the SNP's hippity leader, Nicola Sturgeon
:24:54. > :24:57.next week on Sunday Politics. Scotland: For Richer or Poorer will
:24:58. > :25:02.be on BBC Two at 9pm tomorrow. Disastrous results in the European
:25:03. > :25:08.elections, it is fair to say the Lib Dems are down in the doldrums. In a
:25:09. > :25:17.moment I will be speaking to Nick Clegg, but first Emily has been
:25:18. > :25:32.asking what Lib Dems would say to the Prime -- Deputy Prime Minister
:25:33. > :25:36.on Call Clegg. Our phone in this week is the challenges facing the
:25:37. > :25:40.Liberal Democrats. They are rock bottom in the polls and have dire
:25:41. > :25:45.results in the local and European elections so what can the party do
:25:46. > :25:50.to turn things around? Get in touch, we are going straight to line
:25:51. > :25:56.one and Gareth. How much is a problem of that loss of local
:25:57. > :26:00.support? It is a massive problem because those are the building
:26:01. > :26:06.blocks of our success. The councillors who gets the case work
:26:07. > :26:12.done are also the people who go out and deliver the leaflets and knock
:26:13. > :26:17.on doors. Interesting, and it is not just local support the party has
:26:18. > :26:21.lost, is it? In the next general election there are some big-name
:26:22. > :26:30.Liberal Democrat MPs standing down like Malcolm Bruce and Ming
:26:31. > :26:36.Campbell, how much of a problem will that be? That is a real challenge
:26:37. > :26:41.and we have some of our brightest and best reaching an age of maturity
:26:42. > :26:46.at the same moment so that is quite an additional test in what will be a
:26:47. > :26:51.difficult election anyway. So how does the party need to position
:26:52. > :26:58.itself to win back support? Let s go to Chris online free, has the party
:26:59. > :27:06.got its strategy right? There is always a danger of appearing to be a
:27:07. > :27:09.party that merely dilutes Labour or dilutes the Conservatives. We have a
:27:10. > :27:14.of is serious, positive messages and we need to get those across in the
:27:15. > :27:16.next election because if we don t people will vote for the Tories
:27:17. > :27:25.Nick, what do you think of the people will vote for the Tories
:27:26. > :27:31.have had a look at early draft of our manifesto and there is some good
:27:32. > :27:36.stuff in there but the authors are probably too interested in what may
:27:37. > :27:40.think we have achieved in the last five years and not really focusing
:27:41. > :29:56.on what the voters will want to be hearing about the next five years.
:29:57. > :30:01.delivered, even all these many years later. How do you do it? There is an
:30:02. > :30:05.inquiry in the Home Office about what's happened to these documents,
:30:06. > :30:08.serious questions need to be asked about what happened in the Home
:30:09. > :30:12.Office and those questions need to be answered. There are inquiries in
:30:13. > :30:17.the BBC, in the NHS and most importantly of all the police are
:30:18. > :30:22.looking into the places where this abuse was alleged to have taken
:30:23. > :30:28.place. All I would say is, let's make sure that justice is delivered,
:30:29. > :30:33.truth is uncovered and I think that the way to do that, as we have seen,
:30:34. > :30:36.is by allowing the police to get on with their work. You say that, but
:30:37. > :30:41.there are only seven police involved in this inquiry. There are 195
:30:42. > :30:44.involved in the hacking investigations. We can both agree
:30:45. > :30:50.that child abuse is more important and serious than hacking. The Home
:30:51. > :30:53.Office, there are reports that Home Office officials may have been
:30:54. > :30:59.mentioned in the dossier, people don't trust people to investigate
:31:00. > :31:03.themselves, Mr Clegg? No, I accept that we need to make sure that and
:31:04. > :31:06.the police need to make sure that the police investigations are
:31:07. > :31:12.thorough, well resourced. I can t think of anything more horrendous, I
:31:13. > :31:15.can't, than powerful people organising themselves and worse
:31:16. > :31:19.still, this is what is alleged, covering up for each other to abuse
:31:20. > :31:23.the most vulnerable people in society's care - children. But at
:31:24. > :31:29.the end of the day, the only way you can get people in the dock, the only
:31:30. > :31:31.way you can get people charged, is by allowing the prosecuting
:31:32. > :31:37.authorities and the police to do their job. I have an open mind about
:31:38. > :31:41.what other inquiries take place A number of other inquiries are taking
:31:42. > :31:44.place. I assume any additional inquiries wouldn't be able to second
:31:45. > :31:48.guess or look into the matters which the police are looking into already.
:31:49. > :31:50.All I would say is that people who have information, who want to
:31:51. > :31:54.provide information which they think is relevant to this, please get in
:31:55. > :31:59.touch with the police. Alright. Let's come on to our own inquiry
:32:00. > :32:03.into the state of the Lib Dems. You have attempted to distance yourself
:32:04. > :32:07.and the party from the Tories, but still stay in Government - it is
:32:08. > :32:13.called aggressive differentiation. Why isn't it working? It's not
:32:14. > :32:19.called aggressive differentiation. It is called "coalition". It is two
:32:20. > :32:21.parties who retain different identities, different values, have
:32:22. > :32:25.different aspirations for the future. But during this Parliament
:32:26. > :32:29.have come together because we were facing a unique national emergency
:32:30. > :32:33.back in 2010, the economy was teetering on the edge of a
:32:34. > :32:36.precipice. I'm immensely proud, notwithstanding our political
:32:37. > :32:39.challenges, which are real, I'm immensely proud that the Liberal
:32:40. > :32:42.Democrats, we stepped up to the plate, held our nerve and without
:32:43. > :32:45.the Liberal Democrats, there wouldn't now be that economic
:32:46. > :32:48.recovery which is helping many people across the country. Why
:32:49. > :32:56.aren't you getting any credit for it? Well, we won't get credit if we
:32:57. > :33:00.spend all our time staring at our navals. If it wasn't for the Liberal
:33:01. > :33:05.Democrats, there wouldn't be more jobs now available to people. They
:33:06. > :33:13.don't believe you, they are giving the Tories the credit for the
:33:14. > :33:17.recovery? Well, you might assert that, we will assert and I will
:33:18. > :33:22.shout it from the rooftops that if we had not created the stability by
:33:23. > :33:25.forming this Coalition Government and then hard-wired into the
:33:26. > :33:29.Government's plans, not only the gory job of fixing the public
:33:30. > :33:31.finances, but doing so much more fairly than would have been the
:33:32. > :33:35.case, if the Conservatives had been in Government on their own, they
:33:36. > :33:40.wouldn't have delivered these tax cuts. They wouldn't have delivered
:33:41. > :33:47.the triple lock guarantee for pensions or the pupil premium. OK.
:33:48. > :33:52.Why are you 8% in the polls? Well, because I think where we get our
:33:53. > :34:02.message across - and I am here in my own constituency - this is a
:34:03. > :34:07.constituency where I am a campaigning MP - we can dispel a lot
:34:08. > :34:11.of the information and say we have done a decent thing by going into
:34:12. > :34:15.Government and we have delivered big changes, big reforms which you can
:34:16. > :34:22.touch and see in your school, in your pensions, in your taxes and
:34:23. > :34:26.then people do support us and, in our areas of strength, we were
:34:27. > :34:29.winning against both the Conservative and Labour parties It
:34:30. > :34:32.is a big effort. Of course, there are lots of people from both left
:34:33. > :34:36.and right who want to shout us down and want to vilify our role in
:34:37. > :34:41.Government. What we also need to do - and Nick Harvey was quite right -
:34:42. > :34:46.having been proud of our record of delivery, we also need to set out in
:34:47. > :34:52.our manifesto as we are and as we will our promise of more, of more
:34:53. > :35:00.support in schools. So why is it then... Why is it then that a Lib
:35:01. > :35:04.Dem MP in our own film says you are in danger of no longer becoming a
:35:05. > :35:10.National Party. That could be the Clegg legacy, you cease to be a
:35:11. > :35:14.National Party? I'm a practical man. I believe passionately in what we
:35:15. > :35:18.have done in politics. I am so proud of my party. I don't spend that much
:35:19. > :35:21.time speculating that the end might be nigh. There is no point in doing
:35:22. > :35:27.that. Let's get out there, which is what I do in my own constituency, in
:35:28. > :35:30.challenges circumstances and say we are proud of what we have done, we
:35:31. > :35:33.have done a good thing for the country, we have delivered more
:35:34. > :35:37.Liberal Democrat policies than the party has ever dreamed delivering
:35:38. > :35:42.before. We have a programme of change, of reform, of liberal
:35:43. > :35:45.reform, which is very exciting. Just over the last few weeks, I have been
:35:46. > :35:50.setting out our plans to provide more help to carers, to make sure
:35:51. > :35:54.teachers in every classroom are properly qualified, that all kids in
:35:55. > :36:00.school are being taught a proper core curriculum. That parts company
:36:01. > :36:03.from the ideological rigidities with which the Conservatives deal with
:36:04. > :36:08.education policy. Those are thing which speak to many of the values
:36:09. > :36:14.that people who support us... Alright. When Mike Storey gets out
:36:15. > :36:22.and about, he told this programme two weeks' ago that he finds that
:36:23. > :36:26.you "are toxic on the doorstep" Look, as everybody knows, being the
:36:27. > :36:29.leader of a party, which for the first time in its history goes into
:36:30. > :36:34.Government, which is already a controversial thing to do because
:36:35. > :36:38.you are governing with our enemies, the Conservatives, and on top of
:36:39. > :36:42.that, doing all the difficult and unpopular things to fix the broken
:36:43. > :36:45.economy which was left to us by Labour, of course as leader of that
:36:46. > :36:49.party I get a lot of incoming fire from right and left. The right say
:36:50. > :36:52.that I'm stopping the Conservatives doing what they want. There is a
:36:53. > :36:57.good reason for that. They didn t win the election. The left say that
:36:58. > :37:01.somehow we have lost our soul when we haven't. That happens day in day
:37:02. > :37:06.out. Of course that will have some effect. My answer to that is not to
:37:07. > :37:14.buckle to those criticisms, those misplaced Chris -- criticisms from
:37:15. > :37:20.left and right, but to stand up proudly. Is it your intention to
:37:21. > :37:25.fight the next election against an in-out referendum on Europe? Yes.
:37:26. > :37:30.Unless there is major treaty change? Our position hasn't waivered, it
:37:31. > :37:33.won't waiver, we are not going to flip-flop on the issue of the
:37:34. > :37:37.referendum like the Conservatives did. We want an in-out referendum.
:37:38. > :37:41.With ve legislated for the trigger when that will happen, when in u
:37:42. > :37:45.powers are transferred to the European Union. That is what we have
:37:46. > :37:51.said for years. We legislated for that... So no change? No change
:37:52. > :37:54.Alright. We are expecting a reshuffle shortly. Will you keep
:37:55. > :38:02.Vince Cable as Business Secretary to the election? I'm immensely proud of
:38:03. > :38:07.what Vince has done. Yes, I intend to make sure that Vince continues to
:38:08. > :38:11.serve in the Government in his present capacity Look what he has
:38:12. > :38:14.done on apprenticeships, he's done more than many people for many years
:38:15. > :38:17.to make sure we build-up manufacturing, the north here, not
:38:18. > :38:23.just the south. I'm proud of what he's done. We have talked about some
:38:24. > :38:28.heavy things. We know you have got into kickboxing. Is there any danger
:38:29. > :38:33.of you becoming a mammal - you know what I mean - a middle-aged man in
:38:34. > :38:43.Lycra! Will the Tour de France influence you? Absolutely no risk of
:38:44. > :38:48.that whatsoever having seen the Tour de France start yesterday near
:38:49. > :38:53.Leeds. I have the yellow Yorkshire sign on my pullover. I will see them
:38:54. > :38:57.later whisk through my constituency. I will not try to emulate them. I'm
:38:58. > :39:01.sure that is to the relief of a grateful nation. Thank you.
:39:02. > :39:04.It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:39:05. > :39:08.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now
:39:09. > :39:09.for Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up here in 20 minutes,
:39:10. > :39:17.the Week Ahead. the Week Ahead.
:39:18. > :39:36.First, let's meet the two politici`ns
:39:37. > :39:40.Rowenna Davis is the Labour parliamentary candidate
:39:41. > :39:45.And Tim Loughton is the Conservative MP for East Worthing and Shoreham.
:39:46. > :39:52.I got the title of your constituency right!
:39:53. > :39:56.It's the public sector pay strike this week.
:39:57. > :40:00.Falling behind with pay bec`use of the 1% increase, do you think the
:40:01. > :40:04.I think the whole strike is really deeply regrettable
:40:05. > :40:07.and it's really sad whenever it comes to that, because it whll mean
:40:08. > :40:11.a lot of disruption and it leans that trust is really broken down.
:40:12. > :40:14.But the two reasons that thdre are further strikes happening,
:40:15. > :40:18.which I have some sympathy with are one, the pay freeza at 0%.
:40:19. > :40:20.Many of these workers, huge in the public sector,
:40:21. > :40:24.are on average wage or below, many of whom are on the minhmum wage
:40:25. > :40:28.and they have had a realtimd pay cut for the last four years.
:40:29. > :40:31.And these people are working in our schools, they are cleaning for us,
:40:32. > :40:34.they are doing really vital services and they feel quite desperate now.
:40:35. > :40:40.And the second reason that they are out, which I think is deeper than
:40:41. > :40:43.money, actually, it's about this government's relationship whth
:40:44. > :40:47.public services and in health and in education, you have had these
:40:48. > :40:50.massive top`down, sweeping reforms that peopld
:40:51. > :40:55.on the front line, teachers, nurses, they really haven't felt part of.
:40:56. > :40:58.They don't feel they have been negotiated with.
:40:59. > :41:00.They felt that they had been walked over.
:41:01. > :41:04.And I think now that they are at the end of their tether, and thdy feel
:41:05. > :41:07.that the people that they are trying to help, the patients and the
:41:08. > :41:10.schoolkids, they are going to suffer unless they do something dr`stic.
:41:11. > :41:14.Losing a day's pay to make this pohnt.
:41:15. > :41:16.You've got to accept, 1%, even if money was tight,
:41:17. > :41:20.some people would say there is plenty, it's just that it is not
:41:21. > :41:23.going to these people, seeing the house prices going up 10%, more
:41:24. > :41:28.The trouble is, there isn't a lot of money `round.
:41:29. > :41:34.Everybody has had to make s`crifices over the last few years.
:41:35. > :41:39.That was not going to go aw`y in a matter of months or evdn
:41:40. > :41:45.It is going to take this full five`year term from this government
:41:46. > :41:50.But do you not have sympathx for people who have been affected
:41:51. > :41:53.by cuts and redundancies th`t are having to work a lot harder?
:41:54. > :41:54.Their money is going down, year`on`year.
:41:55. > :41:57.And the public sector is facing the same challenges that the prhvate
:41:58. > :42:03.If you don't sell the goods in the private sector, your pay
:42:04. > :42:06.doesn't go up or you lose your job and the public sector, I'm `fraid,
:42:07. > :42:12.The public sector has had to become more productive and what we have
:42:13. > :42:14.done is to really try and safeguard as much as possible
:42:15. > :42:20.So we've got more nurses and more doctors and far fewer managdrs.
:42:21. > :42:23.And to try and value and really bring up the quality
:42:24. > :42:25.and confidence in the teachhng profession in education as well
:42:26. > :42:28.But the problem for you is, that the Conservatives have been trulpeting
:42:29. > :42:31.repeatedly from government that the economy is recovering, that we are
:42:32. > :42:34.really getting back to growth and yes, these people who are on the
:42:35. > :42:37.front line, doing incrediblx vital services, they aren't seeing
:42:38. > :42:41.But meanwhile, they have watched MPs have
:42:42. > :42:46.Well, we haven't had any increase in salary.
:42:47. > :42:49.It's been held down, is there actually a mandate for this strike?
:42:50. > :42:51.Because it is small numbers voting for it,
:42:52. > :42:56.Those that have turned out, I think it is 60% in Unison
:42:57. > :42:59.and it is over two thirds in some of the other unions as well.
:43:00. > :43:02.You never get a 100% turnout on these issues or as many people
:43:03. > :43:06.voting in one way or another, but the rules have been followed and the
:43:07. > :43:09.outcome has been that the m`jority of those union workers do w`nt to
:43:10. > :43:13.strike, and you have to respect the outcome of that ballot.
:43:14. > :43:15.The strike will not achieve anything, particularly for teachers
:43:16. > :43:18.in schools, because it is not just the teachers losing a day's pay it
:43:19. > :43:22.means parents have to take ` day off school to look after the kids as
:43:23. > :43:25.well, and that is a huge inconvenience all around. This will
:43:26. > :43:31.I'm afraid we have to bite our lips and carry on with getting
:43:32. > :43:34.to grips with the economy and the economy is starting to hmprove.
:43:35. > :43:37.Growth is starting to improve and we need to make sure th`t that
:43:38. > :43:43.I do not know how you tell people that nothing will work, bec`use
:43:44. > :43:46.you have to tell these publhc sector workers what will work.
:43:47. > :43:48.The money is not there. That is the problem.
:43:49. > :43:50.The Labour government spent all the money.
:43:51. > :43:53.It is about more than money, this is the relationship your government
:43:54. > :43:59.That is why we value people in the health services which is why
:44:00. > :44:01.we increased money on incre`sed services in the health servhces
:44:02. > :44:05.There would be more people on strike if you were still in governlent
:44:06. > :44:09.One group who'll be out on strike on Thursday is teachers.
:44:10. > :44:13.It's another chapter in the NUT s long`running dispute with the
:44:14. > :44:19.A dispute that may explain why fewer people are choosing teaching
:44:20. > :44:26.From looking at this year's recruitment figures there are likely
:44:27. > :44:31.to be shortages of teachers in biology, maths, music, physics.
:44:32. > :44:34.Many areas that the governmdnt sees as vital to economic growth.
:44:35. > :44:38.John Howson is a former advhser to the government on teacher stpply and
:44:39. > :44:44.a Liberal Democrat councillor, and joins us now from our Oxford studio.
:44:45. > :44:47.If people are being put off being teachers, why?
:44:48. > :44:53.The discussion you just had, it sounded a bit like a rertn
:44:54. > :44:56.of the winter of discontent versus Thatchdrism.
:44:57. > :45:01.And because it was the Labotr Party that started
:45:02. > :45:04.the academies programme in education.
:45:05. > :45:08.The problem we have now got is that as the economy comes out of
:45:09. > :45:12.recession, the demand for graduates goes up and teaching needs something
:45:13. > :45:18.like 40,000 graduate entrants into training every year, and th`t is a
:45:19. > :45:21.very, very big ask, particularly in some of the subjects where
:45:22. > :45:26.Particularly if we have got a baby boom
:45:27. > :45:29.and those people are now, the pupils are moving into secondary and there
:45:30. > :45:32.will be shortages in partictlar subjects that we really need.
:45:33. > :45:35.It will get worse in the next few years unless we can do something
:45:36. > :45:39.about it, because the next few years unless we can do something `bout it,
:45:40. > :45:47.And quite a lot of them will be in our region.
:45:48. > :45:50.Yet there are geographical factors, particularly London weighting
:45:51. > :45:57.They do not seem to be able to get teachers in a much more difficult
:45:58. > :46:02.East Kent, particularly, I do not know about Tim's constituency..
:46:03. > :46:07.The Isle of Wight and Portsmouth are suffering.
:46:08. > :46:13.If you need two incomes to pay for a mortgage or in some cases, to pay
:46:14. > :46:17.for the rent, where the teacher s partner can find a graduate`level
:46:18. > :46:21.job is also critical, and clearly there are a lot of those in London,
:46:22. > :46:26.though London is probably doing less badly than on previous occasions.
:46:27. > :46:30.They pay the London weighting as well.
:46:31. > :46:35.Every school is now able to pay what it likes under the freedom that this
:46:36. > :46:40.government has introduced, `nd I suspect that one of the outcomes
:46:41. > :46:44.of the future is likely to be that if we are going to pay teachers
:46:45. > :46:50.Is there an impact from fred schools, from academies, ap`rt from,
:46:51. > :46:55.as you say, the discussion we had about morale in the Public Services,
:46:56. > :47:00.is there a sense in which some of these changes haven't come through
:47:01. > :47:03.yet to encourage people into the teaching profession
:47:04. > :47:13.The one change that might ptt people off is the Secretary of State saying
:47:14. > :47:18.that he doesn't require academies to have trained teachers.
:47:19. > :47:21.I think it is like saying the British Army doesn't repuire
:47:22. > :47:27.A daft idea that of course would put some people off
:47:28. > :47:31.because they will say, why should I enter a profession like that?
:47:32. > :47:34.Tim Lawson is muttering herd, a daft idea?
:47:35. > :47:38.The Liberals are obsessed whth us having fully qualified teachers
:47:39. > :47:44.There were more unqualified teachers under the last Labour
:47:45. > :47:49.If you look at some of the most successful schools,
:47:50. > :47:51.some of the independent schools they regularly have a large
:47:52. > :47:55.That doesn't mean they are not qualified,
:47:56. > :47:58.it means many of them have good degrees in their subject, they just
:47:59. > :48:04.There are other ways to makd sure kids get interested by prioritising
:48:05. > :48:06.and getting more teachers into those subjects where we desperately need
:48:07. > :48:10.them, making sure they have a good background and a good degred in
:48:11. > :48:13.those subjects and will inspire kids to want to take it up,
:48:14. > :48:16.we are improving the level of teaching and the range of tdaching
:48:17. > :48:30.His point is that it is demoralising, because it dodsn't
:48:31. > :48:33.seem to be being profession`l about the thing any more.
:48:34. > :48:39.You don't just go to school to be taught by a single person
:48:40. > :48:46.School is a range of experidnces and there are people,
:48:47. > :48:50.nuclear physics prize winners, for example, they would not be `ble to
:48:51. > :48:53.teach under John's criteria if they did not have a teaching carder.
:48:54. > :49:00.I have got news for Peter, I was with a senior figure from
:49:01. > :49:04.the Independent Schools Movdment this morning who is launching
:49:05. > :49:06.a teacher training programmd in September, because they unddrstand
:49:07. > :49:34.It feels like a system that is not working.
:49:35. > :49:37.I hated physics, I was the worst at physics,
:49:38. > :49:40.I got the lowest mark because I had a rubbish physics teacher who could
:49:41. > :49:46.I loved history because I had a fantastic hhstory
:49:47. > :49:52.Whether any of those had a teaching degree was irreldvant.
:49:53. > :49:57.It can make huge a difference. It does.
:49:58. > :51:24.If you are putting a teacher into a classroom, you have to think
:51:25. > :51:27.lots of poor quality teachers out there that must be going around
:51:28. > :51:33.There were at one time and that has been going arotnd
:51:34. > :51:35.since Chris Woodhead became chief inspector in 1992.
:51:36. > :51:38.20 years on, we have the best teachers wd have
:51:39. > :51:44.had and the results in London show how that is improving.
:51:45. > :51:52.It's a funny old business politics ` or so they say.
:51:53. > :51:55.But is it in fact maybe a bit too serhous
:51:56. > :51:57.Are politicians perhaps ` how can I put this politely?
:51:58. > :52:00.A little lacking in the humour department?
:52:01. > :52:03.Margaret Thatcher, you may remember, had to have Monty Python's lost
:52:04. > :52:08.Our Oxfordshire political rdporter Helen Catt has been finding out
:52:09. > :52:15.whether there can be a serious point to having a laugh.
:52:16. > :52:25.Our elected representatives aren't averse to the odd bit of jollity.
:52:26. > :52:27.What with parliamentary pancake races,
:52:28. > :52:32.lobbing buns from town hall roofs and even being weighed in ptblic.
:52:33. > :52:37.And of course there's, ah, xes, hang in there Boris,
:52:38. > :52:48.Everyday politics though can be well, a little less fun.
:52:49. > :52:51.The Monster Raving Loony Party's been trying to brighten up dlections
:52:52. > :52:56.They've brought us candidatds like Hairy Norm, Nick the Flying
:52:57. > :53:03.Their candidate for the recdnt local elections in Oxford says thdy give
:53:04. > :53:10.Rather than go ahead and vote as they always have for, yot know,
:53:11. > :53:14.I am a Labour man, the Tory man what ever, give them the ch`nce to
:53:15. > :53:18.show that they are bit frustrated and he wants the opportunitx to
:53:19. > :53:22.reinvigorate the electoral process, but show that they don't thhnk
:53:23. > :53:27.there is really many good choices to be made.
:53:28. > :53:31.Some of their policies, likd all day pub opening, have even becole law.
:53:32. > :53:33.And it's possible the PM's been listening to
:53:34. > :53:36.They want a referendum with the choices in,
:53:37. > :53:42.At the last general election, the Monster Raving Loony Party
:53:43. > :53:46.fielded 28 candidates funded by William Hill, but this ydar,
:53:47. > :53:50.the bookmaker has suggested it probably won't fund them next time.
:53:51. > :53:53.Why did the squirrel across the river on its back?
:53:54. > :54:02.But could fun be used not jtst as a protest, but as a real vote`winner?
:54:03. > :54:07.Meet Louis Trup, the new prdsident of Oxford University Student Union.
:54:08. > :54:10.It's a job previously done by the likes of
:54:11. > :54:16.He got it with a manifesto written in crayon.
:54:17. > :54:19.I like being fun like everyone does, really.
:54:20. > :54:27.I tried to use the to get pdople listening to the important things I
:54:28. > :54:31.care about, so as so as well as making silly videos, I was writing
:54:32. > :54:41.He thinks politicians in general should think mord
:54:42. > :54:43.about how best to engage with the people they represent.
:54:44. > :54:47.The more people who are vothng, the more people who are writing to their
:54:48. > :54:50.MP, the more people talking on these issues, the more of a mandate we
:54:51. > :54:53.have for politics, the more people will care about politics, and so
:54:54. > :54:58.Why are there no painkillers in the jungle?
:54:59. > :55:02.When it comes to putting the fun into politics,
:55:03. > :55:05.well there is one politician who seems to have really nailed it.
:55:06. > :55:09.Use the Mayor of London and the former member for Henley`on`Thames.
:55:10. > :55:14.The geiger counter of Olymphc mania is going to go crazy!
:55:15. > :55:17.Boris makes it fun, I enjoy watching him.
:55:18. > :55:21.The young people enjoy watching him, they have seen him on TV.
:55:22. > :55:25.Here's a cold, calculating politician, and he is jovial
:55:26. > :55:33.Being caught on a zip line hs fun, and maybe that is what you want
:55:34. > :55:36.in a future prime minister or current mayor!
:55:37. > :55:40.So, mixed views on whether laughter and leadership mix,
:55:41. > :55:46.I think you allow people to just stop for a moment and look
:55:47. > :55:51.at the issue and see sometiles that is actually very absurd.
:55:52. > :55:58.Why did the man drown in his bowl of muesli?
:55:59. > :56:05.Because he was pulled in by a strong currant!
:56:06. > :56:07.Not everyone would be interdsted in the fun bit,
:56:08. > :56:10.but not everyone will be necessarily interested in policy bit, btt
:56:11. > :56:13.the fact that people are involved in the first place means thdy are
:56:14. > :56:24.That's something politicians may have to work at.
:56:25. > :56:34.It's too much humour and destraction policy from Boris, is it a danger?
:56:35. > :56:40.You take a risk using humour, I take politics very seriously and take
:56:41. > :56:45.myself very seriously and I have been called a bit po`faced, and I
:56:46. > :56:51.Is that a safety thing, you say these are our policies?
:56:52. > :56:55.It is like a form of armour, you feel you could get embarrassed
:56:56. > :57:02.For me, it is just that I rdally, really care about what is going
:57:03. > :57:05.on and the left often suffers from this, we really care
:57:06. > :57:08.about jobs, wages, poverty, making Britain a better place, so it
:57:09. > :57:16.Some people say it is all ldft wing humour on the radio, no right`wing.
:57:17. > :57:25.You're happy to make a fool of yourself occasionally,
:57:26. > :57:33.I have done Have I Got News For You, which was a high risk,
:57:34. > :57:37.I just about got away with ht, I did some other documentarhes.
:57:38. > :57:41.MPs are just normal people `nd if you are completely seriots
:57:42. > :57:44.and take politics completelx seriously, because a lot
:57:45. > :57:47.of the public don't, then pdople will not pay any attention.
:57:48. > :57:55.A lot of people think polithcians are from another planet, but you
:57:56. > :57:59.have to use humour and if you use it in a well focused way to get other
:58:00. > :58:03.people's attention, then thdy might bother to listen to some of
:58:04. > :58:09.It also has to be genuine, authentic, true to yourself.
:58:10. > :58:12.The worst thing you can do hs use humour when it is not your style
:58:13. > :58:16.because the public see strahght through it, so we can sit hdre and
:58:17. > :58:20.say, wouldn't it be great if we were more funny, but if it is not in a
:58:21. > :58:25.You have to be able poke fun at yourself.
:58:26. > :58:28.Gordon Brown was terrible at humour, it just did not work.
:58:29. > :58:31.I have a picture of me with a chicken on my head
:58:32. > :58:43.Now our regular round`up of the political week in thd South.
:58:44. > :58:47.As usual it's all packed into 60 seconds, and this wdek it's
:58:48. > :59:00.The number of managers at West Sussex County Council `re to be
:59:01. > :59:08.They're trying to save ?128 million over four years.
:59:09. > :59:11.The Prime Minister invited yachtsman Ben Ainslie to Downing
:59:12. > :59:19.10% of the cost of the Portsmouth HQ for his America's Cup campahgn.
:59:20. > :59:23.It is a great site to sail out of, to compete out of, to host
:59:24. > :59:31.The 10% many mobile home owners pay on transfer lead to a protest
:59:32. > :59:35.They say new laws haven't protected them properly.
:59:36. > :59:39.It is not fair, it is unjust, and you can see from all of these
:59:40. > :59:44.Wycombe High School is one of 32 new mathematics hubs `dopting
:59:45. > :59:49.They could calculate the probability of getting
:59:50. > :59:54.They have been counting the noughts added or taken `way
:59:55. > :00:04.A few arts organisations lost money and Southampton has lost a few
:00:05. > :00:07.things, it's lost racing, it lost Lallana to Liverpool, it's looking
:00:08. > :00:12.good for Southampton when the Solent is the centre of yachting and yet
:00:13. > :00:22.It is always looking good for us, that is because of the people
:00:23. > :00:26.and the place, but it has bden a disappointing result to not have
:00:27. > :00:33.And as he said, we are the centre for a lot of sailing, we have got
:00:34. > :00:36.a huge tradition of it, the Solent has always been known for it, and
:00:37. > :00:41.what happened is, the government is feeling bad that it couldn't save
:00:42. > :00:45.BAE and there were a lot of job losses
:00:46. > :00:49.in Portsmouth. A lot of those from Southampton, the wider Solent area.
:00:50. > :00:53.A lot of the job losses camd from Southampton and we havd
:00:54. > :00:59.It's phenomenal amount of money for the state to put in for quite
:01:00. > :01:03.an affluent person?s sport `nd Ben Ainslie is not a poor gentldman
:01:04. > :01:06.I think this could have the tradition and history of it
:01:07. > :01:10.It is a phenomenal amount of money for the state to put in for quite
:01:11. > :01:13.an affluent person's sport `nd Ben Ainslie is not a poor gentldman
:01:14. > :01:17.I think this could be made tp of a higher proportion of privatd sector
:01:18. > :01:23.Commercial sponsorship and if it was in Worthing, Shordham
:01:24. > :01:25.my constituency has some of the best kite surfing
:01:26. > :01:29.in the whole of the country, it will be an Olympic sport at some stage.
:01:30. > :01:31.This is a true project with a fantastically successful Olxmpian.
:01:32. > :01:36.A small proportion of the money is coming from the government.
:01:37. > :01:41.If that can attract a lot of extra money into the private sector for
:01:42. > :01:46.other jobs coming to the arda, then it is probably a good investment,
:01:47. > :01:49.but particularly for Portsmouth because they have taken such a hit
:01:50. > :01:52.off government money and defence contracts. They could have
:01:53. > :01:55.kept some of the defence contracts! What about spending!
:01:56. > :02:02.Exactly, it is relatively slall but it is a lot of money.
:02:03. > :02:16.progress in London was being made before that started. I wish we had
:02:17. > :02:20.longer for that. It is all over to you.
:02:21. > :02:22.What will Thursday's mass public sector strike achieve?
:02:23. > :02:24.Has David Cameron's anti-Juncker attacks clawed back support
:02:25. > :02:28.And is Alan Johnson really thinking about challenging Ed Miliband
:02:29. > :02:48.We will start with the strikes, Matt Hancock was hardline in the
:02:49. > :02:53.head-to-head that he did with the TUC. I guess that the Tory internal
:02:54. > :02:58.polling and focus groups must be telling them that there are votes in
:02:59. > :03:06.taking a tough line? There is that and there is the fact that they are
:03:07. > :03:12.now much more confident on any economic policy two or three years
:03:13. > :03:16.ago. They shied away from it because the economy was shrinking, there was
:03:17. > :03:20.still a danger that public sector job losses would lead to higher
:03:21. > :03:25.unemployment overall. Now, the economy is growing, they have a good
:03:26. > :03:29.story to sell about employment so they are much more bolshy and brazen
:03:30. > :03:35.than they were two or three years ago. They know that it always causes
:03:36. > :03:40.problems for Labour. Labour is naturally sympathetic to the public
:03:41. > :03:45.sector workers, pay being squeezed, they are striking to make an issue
:03:46. > :03:50.of it. And yet they can't quite come out and give the unions 100% Labour
:03:51. > :03:54.support? Exactly. You saw Tristram Hunt on the Marr Show this morning
:03:55. > :03:57.squirming to support the idea of strikes, but not this particular
:03:58. > :04:00.strike. It was always the question that gets asked to Labour - who
:04:01. > :04:04.funds you? That is a real problem. The bit that gets me is they trail
:04:05. > :04:09.this ef are I time there is a - every time there is a strike, this
:04:10. > :04:14.idea of cutting it to ballots and local election turnout was a third.
:04:15. > :04:17.Boris Johnson was elected Mayor of London with 38% turnout. We need to
:04:18. > :04:26.talk about-turnout across our democracy. That is an easy rebuttal
:04:27. > :04:30.for Labour to make. Matt Hancock was hardline about changing the strike
:04:31. > :04:33.law. When you asked him the question, if you are not going to
:04:34. > :04:38.stabilise the public finances till 2018, does this mean the pay freeze
:04:39. > :04:43.or no real term pay increase in the public sector will increase till
:04:44. > :04:49.2018, h e was inner vous on that one. -- he was nervous on that one.
:04:50. > :04:53.This strike is different to those strikes that took place in 2010 At
:04:54. > :04:57.that time, the TUC and the Labour Leadership thought there was going
:04:58. > :05:03.to be a great movement out there, not a kind of 1926 movement, but a
:05:04. > :05:09.great movement out there. This time round, I think the climate is
:05:10. > :05:13.different. Ed Miliband talking about wage increases being outstripped by
:05:14. > :05:17.inflation and people not seeing the recovery coming through into their
:05:18. > :05:25.pay packets. Slightly more tricky territory for the Tories. If The
:05:26. > :05:30.Labour machine cannot make something out of Matt Hancock telling this
:05:31. > :05:35.programme there will be no increase in pay for workers in the public
:05:36. > :05:39.sector till 2018, they have a problem? They do have a problem
:05:40. > :05:42.They have to say always that they would not just turn the money taps
:05:43. > :05:47.on. That is the dance that you are locked in all the time. Can we all
:05:48. > :05:55.agree that Alan Johnson is not going to stand against Ed Miliband this
:05:56. > :05:58.side of the election? Some politicians are cynical enough. I
:05:59. > :06:04.don't think Alan Johnson is one Do we agree? There is nothing in it for
:06:05. > :06:09.Labour and certainly not for Alan Johnson. No way. It is the last
:06:10. > :06:13.thing he would want to do. There are some desperate members going around
:06:14. > :06:16.trying to find a stalking horse Alan Johnson will not be their man.
:06:17. > :06:22.He has more important things to do on a Thursday night on BBC One!
:06:23. > :06:26.Isn't it something about the febrile state of the Labour Party that
:06:27. > :06:32.Labour, some Labour backbenchers or in the Shadow Cabinet, can float the
:06:33. > :06:35.idea of this nonsense? If there was a time to do it, maybe it was in the
:06:36. > :06:39.middle of the Parliament. With ten months left, you are stuck with the
:06:40. > :06:46.leader you chose in 2010. I remember them failing to understand this in
:06:47. > :06:50.January of 2010 when there was that last push against Gordon Brown. Five
:06:51. > :07:03.months before an election, they were trying to do something. The deputy
:07:04. > :07:07.Leader of the Labour Party had something to do with it. There is
:07:08. > :07:16.deep unease about Ed Miliband. There are problems but Alan Johnson is not
:07:17. > :07:19.the man. I think there is no chance of it!
:07:20. > :07:22.If the most recent polls are to be believed, David Cameron appears to
:07:23. > :07:25.have enjoyed a 'Juncker bounce' - clawing back some support from UKIP
:07:26. > :07:28.after he very publicly opposed the appointment of Jean-Claude Juncker
:07:29. > :07:31.to the post of EU Commission president. Last week Nigel Farage
:07:32. > :07:34.took his newly enlarged UKIP contingent to Strasbourg
:07:35. > :07:48.for the first session of the new European Parliament.
:07:49. > :07:56.These two gentlemen have nothing to say today. It was the usual dull,
:07:57. > :08:00.looking back to a model invented 50 years ago and we are the ones that
:08:01. > :08:04.want democracy, we are the ones that want nation state, we are the ones
:08:05. > :08:12.that want a global future for our countries, not to be trapped inside
:08:13. > :08:14.this museum. Thank you. I can see we will be covering more of the
:08:15. > :08:21.European Parliament at last! It's rumoured he's likely to stand
:08:22. > :08:23.in the next general election in the Kent constituency of Thanet South,
:08:24. > :08:26.currently held by the Conservatives. Last week the Conservatives selected
:08:27. > :08:28.their candidate for the seat - Craig McKinlay -
:08:29. > :08:39.a former deputy leader of UKIP. Did you get the short straw, you
:08:40. > :08:43.have got a seat that Nigel Farage is probably going to fight? Not in the
:08:44. > :08:48.slightest. It is a seat that I know well. It is a seat that there's
:08:49. > :08:53.obvious euro scepticism there and my qualities are right for that seat.
:08:54. > :08:58.UKIP got some very good... What are your qualities? Deep-seated
:08:59. > :09:02.conservatism, I was a founder of UKIP, I wrote the script back in
:09:03. > :09:10.1992. My heart is Conservative values. They are best put out to the
:09:11. > :09:15.public by me in South Thanet. It would be ridiculous if Nigel chose
:09:16. > :09:18.that seat. We need a building block of people like myself to form a
:09:19. > :09:22.Government if we are going to have that referendum that is long
:09:23. > :09:27.overdue. I don't think he's got the luxury of losing somebody who is
:09:28. > :09:31.very similar in views to him. He would be best look looking
:09:32. > :09:34.elsewhere. You wouldn't like him to stand in your seat, would you? It
:09:35. > :09:38.would seem to make very little sense. People would say what is UKIP
:09:39. > :09:43.all about if it's fighting people who have got a similar view to them?
:09:44. > :09:47.We do need to build a majority Government for the Conservatives
:09:48. > :09:51.next year because only us are offering that clear in-out
:09:52. > :09:55.referendum. I want to be one of those building blocks that is part
:09:56. > :09:59.of that renegotiation that we will put to public in a referendum.
:10:00. > :10:10.Sounds to me like if the choice is between you and Nigel Farage next
:10:11. > :10:14.May in Thanet South, it is Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee? Not at all The
:10:15. > :10:18.danger to this country is another Labour Government. That is one of
:10:19. > :10:22.the main reasons that I left UKIP in 2005 because that last five years of
:10:23. > :10:27.the Labour Government was the most dangerous to the fundamentals of
:10:28. > :10:35.Britain that we have ever seen. I'm happy with the Conservatives. I have
:10:36. > :10:43.full Conservative values. I am a Euro-sceptic. Thank you for joining
:10:44. > :10:48.us. The Westminster bubble yet again, which has a herd mentality, a
:10:49. > :11:39.bubble with a herd mentality, it again, which has a herd mentality, a
:11:40. > :11:43.The question is how far low do they fall? They are still registering
:11:44. > :11:48.12-15% in the opinion polls. They are. When Mr Cameron wielded his
:11:49. > :12:59.veto which again the Westminster bubble said it's
:13:00. > :13:03.veto which again the Westminster quieten down, please. Ben Bradshaw,
:13:04. > :13:09.the former Minister made it, he said, "I'm reminded when the leader
:13:10. > :13:15.of the Labour Party before Harold Wilson made that famous Euro-sceptic
:13:16. > :13:19.speech and Mrs Gaitskell said darling, the wrong people are
:13:20. > :13:22.cheering." That is the challenge. Thank you, bubbles!
:13:23. > :13:26.The Daily Politics is back at its usual Noon time every day
:13:27. > :13:32.And I'll be back here on BBC One next Sunday at 11pm for the last
:13:33. > :13:34.Sunday Politics of the summer - I'll be talking to Scotland's Deputy
:13:35. > :14:56.Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.
:14:57. > :15:03.Former Cabinet Minister Lord Tebbit says he believes there may well have
:15:04. > :15:05.been a cover up over child abuse in the 1980s, after more than
:15:06. > :15:13.a hundred documents relating to historical abuse allegations are
:15:14. > :15:16.missing or have been destroyed. In Kenya,
:15:17. > :15:23.29 people have been killed in two attacks by Islamist militants.
:15:24. > :15:24.And Britain's Mark Cavendish is out of the Tour