:00:37. > :00:40.Morning folks - welcome to the Sunday Politics.
:00:41. > :00:43.Theresa May says she'll deliver on Brexit but does that mean leaving
:00:44. > :00:48.the EU's Single Market and the Customs Union?
:00:49. > :00:50.Tory MPs campaign for a commitment from the Prime
:00:51. > :01:03.The Chancellor pledges just over a billion pounds worth of spending
:01:04. > :01:09.on Britain's roads but is that it or will there be
:01:10. > :01:16.In the South, noisy neighbotrs. 18 days in the job.
:01:17. > :01:20.With more students living in private housing in Oxford, complaints about
:01:21. > :01:24.Is enough being done about the problem?
:01:25. > :01:29.in London: Is the battle for Richmond Park based on the skies? Or
:01:30. > :01:38.is it about a bigger conflict in Europe?
:01:39. > :01:41.And with me - as always - and, no, these three aren't doing
:01:42. > :01:45.the Mannequin challenge - it's our dynamic, demonstrative
:01:46. > :01:47.dazzling political panel - Helen Lewis, Isabel Oakeshott
:01:48. > :01:51.and Tom Newton Dunn they'll also be tweeting throughout the programme.
:01:52. > :01:56.First this morning - Theresa May has said
:01:57. > :01:59."Brexit means Brexit" - but can the Prime Minister -
:02:00. > :02:01.who was on the Remain side of argument during the referendum
:02:02. > :02:09.Well, Leave-supporting Tory MPs are re-launching
:02:10. > :02:17.the "European Research Group" this morning to keep Mrs May's feet
:02:18. > :02:27.Are you worried that you cannot trust Theresa May until payment to
:02:28. > :02:33.deliver full Brexit was Magellan like I totally trust Theresa May,
:02:34. > :02:36.100% behind her. She has displayed a massive amount of commitment to
:02:37. > :02:39.making a success of Brexit for the country.
:02:40. > :02:43.We don't know that yet, because nothing has happened. Why, then
:02:44. > :02:50.have you formed a pressure group? We were fed up with the negativity
:02:51. > :02:54.coming out around Brexit. I feel positive about the opportunities we
:02:55. > :02:57.face, and we are a group to provide suggestions. Who do you have in mind
:02:58. > :03:04.when you talk about negativity the Chancellor? No, from the Lib Dems,
:03:05. > :03:11.for example, from Labour MPs. This is a pressure group for leaving
:03:12. > :03:16.membership of the single market and customs union, correct? That is what
:03:17. > :03:19.we are proposing. It has a purpose other than just to combat
:03:20. > :03:24.negativity. When it comes to membership of the single market and
:03:25. > :03:28.the customs union, can you tell us what Government policy is towards
:03:29. > :03:32.both or either? Rightly, the Government hasn't made the position
:03:33. > :03:37.clear, and I think that is the right approach, because we don't want to
:03:38. > :03:44.review our negotiating hand. What we're saying... I'm not asking what
:03:45. > :03:46.you are saying. Can you tell us what Government policy is towards
:03:47. > :03:51.membership of these institutions? The Government wants to make sure
:03:52. > :03:55.British businesses have the right to trade with EU partners, to forge new
:03:56. > :04:03.trade deals with the rest of the world. We hope to Reza may speak at
:04:04. > :04:06.Mansion house this week. -- we had Theresa May speak at Mansion house
:04:07. > :04:12.this week. She has been clear, saying it was not a binary choice.
:04:13. > :04:15.And she's right. Let's run that tape, because I want to pick up on
:04:16. > :04:20.what she did say. This is what she had to say about the customs union
:04:21. > :04:25.at Prime Minister's Question Time. On the whole question of the customs
:04:26. > :04:28.union, trading relationships that we have with the European Union and
:04:29. > :04:33.other parts of the world once we have left the European Union, we are
:04:34. > :04:43.preparing carefully for the formal negotiations. We are preparing
:04:44. > :04:46.carefully for the formal negotiations. We want to ensure we
:04:47. > :04:52.have the best possible trading deal with the EU once we have left. Do
:04:53. > :04:56.you know what she means when she says being in the customs union is
:04:57. > :05:00.not a binary choice? I think she's right when she says that. At the
:05:01. > :05:05.moment, and you know this, as long as we are in the customs union, we
:05:06. > :05:08.cannot set our own tariffs or rules, cannot have a free trade agreement
:05:09. > :05:14.with the US or China. We need to leave a customs union to do that.
:05:15. > :05:18.Binary means either you are in or you are out, self which is it? We
:05:19. > :05:22.still want to trade with the EU and I think we can have a free trade
:05:23. > :05:29.agreement with the EU. That is a separate matter, and it has to do
:05:30. > :05:33.with the single market. What about the customs union? We need to leave
:05:34. > :05:38.the customs union. We do it and properly. That is how to get the
:05:39. > :05:41.most out of this opportunity. Summit is a binary choice? The Prime
:05:42. > :05:46.Minister is right when she says it's not a binary choice. Both can't be
:05:47. > :05:54.right. We can leave the customs union, get their benefits, and have
:05:55. > :05:59.a free trade agreement with zero tariffs with the EU. So it is a
:06:00. > :06:02.binary choice an either be stale really. Yellow like I am saying the
:06:03. > :06:09.Prime Minister is right when she says it is not a binary choice. -- I
:06:10. > :06:17.am saying the Prime Minister is right. We need clarity. Youth had
:06:18. > :06:22.said -- you have said it is a binary choice. We need to leave the
:06:23. > :06:26.constraints of the customs union. It pushes up prices. The EU is not
:06:27. > :06:29.securing the right trade deals, and if we want to make the most of it,
:06:30. > :06:34.we need to get out there and get some deals going. Do you accept that
:06:35. > :06:39.if we remain in the customs union, we cannot do our own free-trade
:06:40. > :06:55.deals? Yellow right 100%. That is why we have to leave. -- 100%. Do
:06:56. > :06:59.you accept that if we leave the customs union but stay with
:07:00. > :07:02.substantial access, I don't say membership, but substantial access
:07:03. > :07:06.to the single market, that goods going from this country to the
:07:07. > :07:11.single market because we're no longer in the union will be subject
:07:12. > :07:19.to complicated rules of origin regulations, which could cost
:07:20. > :07:23.business ?13 billion a year? I would like to see a free-trade agreement
:07:24. > :07:27.between the UK and the EU. Look at the Canadian deal. I give you that,
:07:28. > :07:32.but if we're not in the customs union, things that we bring in on
:07:33. > :07:37.our own tariffs once we've left we can't just export again willy-nilly
:07:38. > :07:40.to the EU. They will demand to see rules of origin. Norway has to do
:07:41. > :07:46.that at the moment and it is highly complicated expensive. I think if we
:07:47. > :07:50.agree a particular arrangement as part of this agreement with the EU,
:07:51. > :07:56.we can reach an agreement on that which sets a lower standard, which
:07:57. > :08:00.sets a different level of tariffs, which protects some of our
:08:01. > :08:05.industries. Let's suppose we have pretty much free trade with the EU
:08:06. > :08:09.but we are out of the customs union, and let's suppose that the European
:08:10. > :08:18.Union has a 20% tariff on Japanese whisky and we decide to have a %
:08:19. > :08:22.tariff - what then happens to the whisky that comes into Britain and
:08:23. > :08:27.goes on to the EU? The EU will not let that in. That will be part of
:08:28. > :08:34.the negotiation. I think there is a huge benefit for external operators.
:08:35. > :08:38.Every bottle of Japanese whisky they will have to work out the rules
:08:39. > :08:44.of origin. There have been studies that show there is a potential for
:08:45. > :08:49.50% increase in global product if we leave. We're losing the benefits of
:08:50. > :08:50.free trade. I understand, I am asking for your particular view
:08:51. > :08:59.Thank you for that. Is it not surprising Mr Hannan could
:09:00. > :09:04.not bring himself to say we would leave the customs union? It is
:09:05. > :09:09.messy. The reason there is this new group of Tory MPs signing up to a
:09:10. > :09:15.campaign to make sure we get a genuine Brexit is because there is
:09:16. > :09:20.this vacuum. It is being filled with all sorts of briefing from the other
:09:21. > :09:24.side. There is a real risk in the minds of Brexit supporting MPs that
:09:25. > :09:27.the remaining side are going to try to hijack the process, not only
:09:28. > :09:33.through the Supreme Court action, which I think most Brexit MPs seem
:09:34. > :09:39.to accept the appeal will fail, but further down the line, through
:09:40. > :09:42.amendments to the great repeal bill. This is a pressure group to try to
:09:43. > :09:46.hold the Prime Minister to account. There is plenty of pressure on the
:09:47. > :09:51.Prime Minister effectively to stay in the single market and the customs
:09:52. > :09:57.union, and if you do both of these things, de facto, you have stayed in
:09:58. > :10:00.the EU. She is in a difficult position because there is no good
:10:01. > :10:07.faith assumption about what Theresa May wants because she was a
:10:08. > :10:10.Remainer. There is all this talk about a transitional arrangement,
:10:11. > :10:16.but she can't sell that as someone who voted to remain. The way Isabel
:10:17. > :10:20.has characterised it is interesting. There is a betrayal narrative.
:10:21. > :10:24.Everyone is looking to say that she has betrayed the true Brexit. Since
:10:25. > :10:30.the Government cannot give a clear indication of what it once in terms
:10:31. > :10:34.of the customs union, which sets external tariffs, or the single
:10:35. > :10:37.market, which is the free movement of people, capital, goods and
:10:38. > :10:45.services, others are filling this vacuum. Right. The reasons they
:10:46. > :10:48.can't do this are, first, they don't know if they can get it or not. We
:10:49. > :10:55.saw this with the renegotiation the last Prime Minister. What are they
:10:56. > :11:05.hoping to get? The world on a stick, to get cake and eat it. You go into
:11:06. > :11:10.a negotiation saying, let's see what we can get in total. Are they going
:11:11. > :11:14.to ask the membership of the single market? Yellow I think they will ask
:11:15. > :11:26.for a free trade agreement involving everything. You can demand what you
:11:27. > :11:32.want. The question is, do they stand a cat's chance in hell of getting
:11:33. > :11:37.it? They don't know. Welcome back. We will be back, believe me. It is
:11:38. > :11:43.150 day since we found out the UK had voted to leave the EU, but as we
:11:44. > :11:47.have heard, remain and leave campaigners continue to battle about
:11:48. > :11:55.what type of relationship we should have with the EU after exit.
:11:56. > :11:56.Leave campaigners say that leaving the EU
:11:57. > :11:57.also means quitting the
:11:58. > :12:00.Single Market, the internal European trading bloc that includes free
:12:01. > :12:02.movement of goods, services, capital and people.
:12:03. > :12:03.They point to evidence that leading Leave supporting
:12:04. > :12:06.politicians ruled out staying in the Single Market during
:12:07. > :12:08.Andrea Leadsom, for example, said it would almost
:12:09. > :12:18.certainly be the case that the UK would come out of the Single Market.
:12:19. > :12:22.When asked for a yes or no on whether the UK should stay
:12:23. > :12:25."No, we should be outside the Single Market."
:12:26. > :12:28.And Boris Johnson agreed with his erstwhile ally, saying, "Michael
:12:29. > :12:30.Gove was absolutely right to say the UK
:12:31. > :12:41.They've released a video of clips of Leave campaigners speaking before
:12:42. > :12:44.the referendum apparently saying that the UK should stay in the
:12:45. > :12:47.Nigel Farage, for example, once said that on leaving
:12:48. > :12:50.the EU we'll find ourselves part of the European economic area
:12:51. > :12:52.Owen Paterson, the former Environment Secretary,
:12:53. > :12:59.once made the startling statement that only a madman would actually
:13:00. > :13:04.And Matthew Elliott, the Vote Leave chief, said
:13:05. > :13:07.that the Norwegian option would be initially attractive for some
:13:08. > :13:11.But do these quotes create an accurate picture of what
:13:12. > :13:18.To cast some light on where these quotes came from we're
:13:19. > :13:20.joined by James McGrory, director of Open Britain
:13:21. > :13:34.Welcome to the Sunday Politics. . Your video has statements from leave
:13:35. > :13:37.campaigners hinting they want to stay in the single market. How many
:13:38. > :13:45.were made during the referendum campaign? I don't know. Not one was
:13:46. > :13:50.made during the referendum campaign. Indeed, only two of the 12
:13:51. > :13:53.statements were recorded after Royal assent had been given to the
:13:54. > :13:58.referendum. Only one was made this year before the referendum.
:13:59. > :14:01.Throughout the campaign am a leave campaigners lauded the Norwegian
:14:02. > :14:07.model. Norway are in the single market but not in the EU. They went
:14:08. > :14:10.out of their way not to be pinned down on a specific trading
:14:11. > :14:14.arrangement they want to see in the future with Europe, when the
:14:15. > :14:19.Treasury model the different models it was the EEA or a free-trade
:14:20. > :14:23.agreement. I understand. Does it not undermine your case that none of the
:14:24. > :14:28.12 statements on your video were made during the campaign itself
:14:29. > :14:32.when people were giving really serious thought to such matters The
:14:33. > :14:35.Leave campaign weren't giving serious thought to such matters
:14:36. > :14:41.They did not set out the future trading model they wanted to see.
:14:42. > :14:45.But you cannot produce a single video with somebody saying we should
:14:46. > :14:50.stay in the single market during the campaign. Daniel Hanna had talked
:14:51. > :14:55.about the Norwegian model as a future option. One comment from
:14:56. > :14:59.Nigel Farage dates back to 2009 when we didn't even know if we would
:15:00. > :15:03.have a referendum or not. Does it not stretch credibility to go back
:15:04. > :15:07.to the time when Gordon Brown was Prime Minister? The overall point
:15:08. > :15:13.stands. It is not supposed to be an exhaustive list of the options.
:15:14. > :15:18.Daniel Hannan, described as the intellectual godfather of the Leave
:15:19. > :15:21.movement is saying that no one is talking about threatening our place
:15:22. > :15:25.in the signal market. I think it's legitimate to point out the Leave
:15:26. > :15:29.campaign never came forward with a credible argument. We have
:15:30. > :15:32.highlighted some of the quotes you picked out from leave campaigners
:15:33. > :15:39.over time. Do you think you have fully encapsulated their arguments
:15:40. > :15:45.accurately? I don't think in a 2nd video you can talk about the full
:15:46. > :15:49.thing. -- a 90-2nd video. Some of them want to seek a free-trade
:15:50. > :15:57.agreement, some to default on to World Trade Organisation tariffs.
:15:58. > :15:59.There is a range of opinion in the Leave campaign. Let's listen to the
:16:00. > :16:00.clip you used on Owen Paterson first.
:16:01. > :16:07.Only a madman would actually leave the market.
:16:08. > :16:12.Only a madman would actually leave the market.
:16:13. > :16:13.It's not the EU which is
:16:14. > :16:16.a political organisation delivering the prosperity and buying our goods.
:16:17. > :16:20.It's the market, it's the members of the market and we'll carry on
:16:21. > :16:23.I mean, are we really suggesting that the
:16:24. > :16:25.economy in the world is not going to come to come
:16:26. > :16:27.to a satisfactory trading arrangement with the EU?
:16:28. > :16:29.Are we going to be like Sudan and North
:16:30. > :16:34.It is ludicrous this idea that we are going to leap off a
:16:35. > :16:47.What he said when he said only a madman would leave Europe, was that
:16:48. > :16:51.we would continue to trade, we would continue to have access. Any country
:16:52. > :16:54.in the world can have access. What the Leave campaign suggested is our
:16:55. > :16:58.trade would continue uninterrupted, they are still at it today, David
:16:59. > :17:02.Davis used the phrase, uninterrupted, from the dispatch box
:17:03. > :17:06.recently. You misrepresented him by saying only a madman would leave the
:17:07. > :17:10.Single Market and stopped it there, because he goes onto say that of
:17:11. > :17:11.course we want Leave in the sense of continuing to have access. I don't
:17:12. > :17:30.think he was about axis, he is talking
:17:31. > :17:33.about membership. He doesn't use the word membership at all. He talks
:17:34. > :17:35.about we are going to carry on trading with them, we will not leap
:17:36. > :17:38.off, we will carry on trading. Anybody can trade with the EU, it's
:17:39. > :17:40.the terms on which you trade that is important and leave campaigners and
:17:41. > :17:43.Patterson is an example of this saying we can trade as we do now,
:17:44. > :17:45.the government saying we can trade without bureaucratic impediments and
:17:46. > :17:48.tariff free. The viewers will make up their mind. Let's listen to the
:17:49. > :17:49.views of Matthew Elliott, the Chief Executive of Vote Leave.
:17:50. > :17:52.When it comes to the Norwegian option, the EEA option, I think that
:17:53. > :17:54.it might be initially attractive for some business people.
:17:55. > :17:58.So you then cut him off there but this is what he went on to say in
:17:59. > :18:02.the same clip, let's listen to that. When it comes to the Norwegian
:18:03. > :18:05.option, the EEA option, I think that it might be initially attractive
:18:06. > :18:07.for some business people. But then again for voters
:18:08. > :18:10.who are increasingly concerned about migration in the EU,
:18:11. > :18:13.they will be very concerned that it allows free movement
:18:14. > :18:25.of people to continue. Again, you have misrepresented him.
:18:26. > :18:28.He said the Norwegian model has attractions but there are real
:18:29. > :18:32.problems if it involves free movement of people, which it does.
:18:33. > :18:36.But you cut that bit out. I challenge anyone to represent them
:18:37. > :18:39.accurately because they took such a range of opinions. I don't know what
:18:40. > :18:43.we are supposed to do. You are misrepresenting them. He is saying
:18:44. > :18:47.the Norwegian option is attractive to business, I understand why. It
:18:48. > :18:54.might not be attractive for voters. But then he said if it allowed free
:18:55. > :18:59.movement of people it could be an issue. You took that out. You are
:19:00. > :19:01.saying this is a definitive position. I'm suggesting you are
:19:02. > :19:04.distorting it. This is what you had Mr Farage say.
:19:05. > :19:06.On D+1 we'll find ourselves part of the European economic area
:19:07. > :19:14.This is what he then went on to say in that same clip that you didn t
:19:15. > :19:15.run. There is absolutely
:19:16. > :19:17.nothing to fear in terms of trade from leaving
:19:18. > :19:18.the on D+1 we'll find ourselves part
:19:19. > :19:23.of the European Economic Area and we should use our
:19:24. > :19:31.membership of the EEA as a holding position from which
:19:32. > :19:35.we can negotiate as the European Union's biggest export
:19:36. > :19:37.market in the world, as good a deal, my goodness me,
:19:38. > :19:47.if Switzerland can have one we So there again, he says not that we
:19:48. > :19:52.should stay in the Single Market as a member, but that we stay in the EA
:19:53. > :20:02.as a transition until we negotiate something. -- EEA. This whole clip
:20:03. > :20:06.is online, how would you get away with this distortion? It is not a
:20:07. > :20:09.distortion, the whole point is to point out they do not have a
:20:10. > :20:12.definitive position, he is arguing for membership of the Single Market,
:20:13. > :20:17.for a transitional period. For the transition. How long does that go
:20:18. > :20:20.on, what does he want to then achieve? Not very quickly but he
:20:21. > :20:24.does not say we should stay members of the Single Market and you didn't
:20:25. > :20:27.let people see what he went on to say, you gave the impression he
:20:28. > :20:31.wanted to stay in the one it. It would not be a video then, it would
:20:32. > :20:35.be a seven-week long lecture. They took so many positions, and the idea
:20:36. > :20:39.now that they were clear with people that we should definitely leave the
:20:40. > :20:43.Single Market I think is fictitious. You are trying to make out they all
:20:44. > :20:47.had one position which was to remain members of the one it. You see the
:20:48. > :20:51.full clips that is not what they are saying. We are trying to point out
:20:52. > :20:55.there is no mandate to leave the Single Market. The idea the Leave
:20:56. > :20:58.campaign spoke with unanimity and clarity of purpose and throughout
:20:59. > :21:02.the whole campaign said we will definitely leave the Single Market
:21:03. > :21:06.is not true. That is the whole point of the media. We showed in the
:21:07. > :21:10.montage in the video just before we came on, we said that then Prime
:21:11. > :21:13.Minister, the then Chancellor, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, being
:21:14. > :21:17.categorical that if you vote to leave the EU, you vote to leave
:21:18. > :21:20.membership of the Single Market What bit of that didn't you
:21:21. > :21:23.understand? Under duress they occasionally said they wanted to
:21:24. > :21:29.leave. Some of them wanted to leave the Single Market. All of the other
:21:30. > :21:34.promises they made, whether ?35 million for the NHS, whether a VAT
:21:35. > :21:37.cut on fuel, points-based system. You do not have a single quote of
:21:38. > :21:41.any of these members saying they want to be a member. Daniel Hannan
:21:42. > :21:46.has said consistently that Norway are a part of the Single Market You
:21:47. > :21:48.spend the referendum campaign criticising for Rim misrepresenting
:21:49. > :21:51.and misrepresenting and lying and many thought they did. Having seen
:21:52. > :21:55.this many will conclude that you are the biggest liars. I think it is
:21:56. > :21:58.perfectly reasonable to point out that the Leave campaign did not have
:21:59. > :22:02.a clear position on our future trading relationship with Europe.
:22:03. > :22:06.That is all this video does. It doesn't say we definitely have to
:22:07. > :22:10.stay in the Single Market, it just says they do have a mandate to drag
:22:11. > :22:12.us out of our biggest trading partner.
:22:13. > :22:14.Now people have seen the full quotes in context our viewers will make up
:22:15. > :22:16.their mind. Thank you. Now - voting closes next week
:22:17. > :22:19.in the the Ukip leadership contest. The second Ukip leadership contest
:22:20. > :22:21.this year after the party's first female leader - Diane James -
:22:22. > :22:24.stood down from the role Since then the party's lurched from
:22:25. > :22:27.farce to fiasco. It's a world gripped by uncertainty,
:22:28. > :22:43.split into factions. Yes, 2, because they're
:22:44. > :22:53.having their second Watch as the alpha male,
:22:54. > :23:00.the Ukip leader at Nigel Watch as the alpha male,
:23:01. > :23:02.the Ukip leader Nigel Farage, hands power to the new alpha
:23:03. > :23:05.female Diane James. The European Parliament
:23:06. > :23:19.in Strasbourg, October. Another leading light and possible
:23:20. > :23:22.future leader, the MEP Steven Wolfe,
:23:23. > :23:24.has been laid low after an alleged tussle with a colleague
:23:25. > :23:27.during a meeting. A few days later he is
:23:28. > :23:29.out of hospital and I will be withdrawing my
:23:30. > :23:33.application to become I'm actually withdrawing
:23:34. > :23:36.myself from Ukip. You're resigning from the party
:23:37. > :23:43.I'm resigning with immediate effect. And this week a leaked document
:23:44. > :23:46.suggested the party improperly spent EU funds on political
:23:47. > :23:51.campaigning in the UK. Another headache for whoever takes
:23:52. > :23:57.over the leadership of the pack One contender is Suzanne Evans,
:23:58. > :24:00.a former Tory councillor and was briefly suspended for
:24:01. > :24:09.disloyalty. Also standing, Paul Nuttall,
:24:10. > :24:12.an MEP from Liverpool who has been by Farage's side
:24:13. > :24:18.as his deputy for six years. There's another big beast
:24:19. > :24:20.in the Ukip leadership contest, and I'm told
:24:21. > :24:23.that today he can be spotted He's John Rees-Evans,
:24:24. > :24:28.a businessman and adventurer who is offering members the chance
:24:29. > :24:31.to propose policies via a website We've got really dedicated
:24:32. > :24:45.passionate supporters who feel like they're not really
:24:46. > :24:48.being listened to and are not even Typically what happens
:24:49. > :24:51.is they just basically sit there until six months before
:24:52. > :24:53.a General Election when they are contacted and asked to go out
:24:54. > :24:56.and leaflet and canvas. Even at branch level people feel
:24:57. > :24:58.there is not an adequate flow of communication
:24:59. > :25:00.up-and-down the party. Are you not going to take part in
:25:01. > :25:09.any hustings? He left a hustings saying
:25:10. > :25:12.the contest was an establishment coronation and has
:25:13. > :25:15.made colourful comments in the past. He's in favour of the death penalty
:25:16. > :25:17.for crimes like paedophilia. I think there is a clear
:25:18. > :25:19.will amongst the offences should be dealt with
:25:20. > :25:23.decisively. But again, on an issue like that,
:25:24. > :25:26.that is something that Our members are not
:25:27. > :25:31.going to agree with me on everything and I don't believe that
:25:32. > :25:34.I would have any authority to have the say and determine
:25:35. > :25:35.the future What method would you use
:25:36. > :25:39.for the death penalty? Again, that is something that could
:25:40. > :25:41.be determined by suggestions made So you'd have like an online
:25:42. > :25:46.poll about whether you use the electric chair,
:25:47. > :25:52.or lethal injection? For example, arguments would be made
:25:53. > :25:54.in favour of This is such a small aspect
:25:55. > :25:58.of what I'm standing for. Essentially, in mainstream media
:25:59. > :26:00.they try to by focusing on pretty irrelevant
:26:01. > :26:06.details. This is one vote that
:26:07. > :26:08.the membership would have. What I'm actually trying to do
:26:09. > :26:12.in this party is to revolutionise the democratic
:26:13. > :26:15.process in the UK, and that's really what your viewers should
:26:16. > :26:19.be concentrating on. With him at the helm he reckons Ukip
:26:20. > :26:21.would win at Meanwhile, in New York,
:26:22. > :26:29.on a visit to Trump Tower, Nigel Farage admired the plumage
:26:30. > :26:38.of the President-elect, a man he has described as
:26:39. > :26:40.a silverback gorilla, a friendship that's been condemned by some
:26:41. > :26:43.in this leadership contest. There are also elections
:26:44. > :26:46.to the party's National Executive Committee, a body
:26:47. > :26:48.that's been roundly criticised by And we're joined now by two
:26:49. > :27:03.of the candidates in the Ukip leadership election -
:27:04. > :27:13.Suzanne Evans and Paul Nuttall. We are going to kick off by giving
:27:14. > :27:16.each of them 30 seconds to lay out their case as to why they would be
:27:17. > :27:19.the less leader starting with Suzanne Evans.
:27:20. > :27:22.Ukip is at its best when it is scaring the political establishment,
:27:23. > :27:26.forcing it to address those problems it would rather ignore. But it
:27:27. > :27:30.really change people's lives for the better and fast, we need to win
:27:31. > :27:34.seats and elections right across the country. To win at the ballot box we
:27:35. > :27:54.need to attract more women, more ethnic
:27:55. > :27:56.minorities, and more of those Labour voters who no longer recognise their
:27:57. > :27:59.party. I know how to do that. Ukip under my
:28:00. > :28:01.leadership will be the same page about it, common-sense, radical
:28:02. > :28:04.party it has always been, just even more successful. Thank you, Suzanne
:28:05. > :28:06.Evans, Paul Nuttall. I'm standing on a platform of unity and experience.
:28:07. > :28:09.I believe the party must come together if it is to survive and
:28:10. > :28:11.prosper. I believe I'm the best candidate to ensure that happens, I
:28:12. > :28:14.am not part of any faction in the party, and beyond that I have done
:28:15. > :28:16.every single job within the party, whether that is as head of policy,
:28:17. > :28:19.whether that is Party Chairman, deputy leader for Nigel for the past
:28:20. > :28:21.six years. I believe Ukip has great opportunities in Labour
:28:22. > :28:25.constituencies where we can move in and become the Patriot invoice of
:28:26. > :28:28.working people, and beyond that we have to ensure the government's feet
:28:29. > :28:35.are held to the fire on Brexit and we get real Brexit, not a
:28:36. > :28:39.mealy-mouthed version. How will you get a grip on this? People have to
:28:40. > :28:43.realise that the cause is bigger than any personality, we have to get
:28:44. > :28:46.together in a room and sort out not just a spokespeople role but roles
:28:47. > :28:51.within the organisation, Party Chairman, party secretary, and
:28:52. > :28:55.whatnot. But as I say, Ukip must unite, we are on 13% in the opinion
:28:56. > :29:00.polls, the future is bright, there are open goals but Ukip must be on
:29:01. > :29:03.the pitch to score them. He says he's the only one that can get a
:29:04. > :29:07.grip on this party. I disagree, I have a huge amount of experience in
:29:08. > :29:10.the party as well and also a background that I think means I can
:29:11. > :29:21.help bring people together. I have always said nothing breeds unity
:29:22. > :29:23.faster than success and under my leadership we will be successful.
:29:24. > :29:25.There is concern about the future of our National Executive Committee
:29:26. > :29:28.going forward. Mr Farage called it the lowest grade of people I have
:29:29. > :29:31.ever met, do you agree? I think he must have been having a bad day I
:29:32. > :29:34.think we need to make it more accountable to the membership, more
:29:35. > :29:39.open, more democratic. What would you do with the National Executive
:29:40. > :29:43.Committee? I have been calling for the National Executive Committee to
:29:44. > :29:45.be elected reasonably since 201 giving the members better
:29:46. > :29:50.communication lines and make it far more transparent. Would you have a
:29:51. > :29:54.clear out of the office? I wouldn't, I think the chairman of the party,
:29:55. > :29:58.Paul Upton, the interim chairman, is doing a good job and the only person
:29:59. > :30:01.who has come out of the summer with his reputation enhanced. Let me show
:30:02. > :30:08.you a picture we have all seen of your current leader, Mr Farage, with
:30:09. > :30:11.President-elect Donald Trump. Paul Nuttall, you criticise Mr Farage's
:30:12. > :30:16.decision to appear at rallies during the American election and called Mr
:30:17. > :30:21.Trump appalling. Do you stick by that? I wouldn't have voted for him.
:30:22. > :30:24.I made it clear. Do you still think he's appalling now that he is
:30:25. > :30:30.President-elect? Some of the things he said were appalling during the
:30:31. > :30:33.campaign that he said. But he would be good for Britain, trade,
:30:34. > :30:36.pro-Brexit and he is an Anglo file and the first thing he did was put
:30:37. > :30:42.the bust of Winston Churchill back in the Oval Office. You, Suzanne
:30:43. > :30:46.Evans, called Mr Trump one of the weakest candidates the US has had. I
:30:47. > :30:50.said the same about Hillary Clinton. They cannot both be the weakest The
:30:51. > :30:54.better candidate on either side would have beaten the other, that is
:30:55. > :30:59.quite clear. Do you stand by that, or are you glad that your leader Mr
:31:00. > :31:04.Farage has strong ties to him? I am, why wouldn't I be? For Ukip to have
:31:05. > :31:08.that direct connection, it can be only good for a party. Were you not
:31:09. > :31:11.out of step and Mr Farage is in step because it looks like your vote is
:31:12. > :31:17.according to polling I have seemed like Mr Trump and his policies? Let
:31:18. > :31:20.me finish. If I am the leader of Ukip I will not be involving myself
:31:21. > :31:24.in foreign elections, I will because in trading here in this country
:31:25. > :31:26.ensuring we get Ukip people elected to council chambers and get seats in
:31:27. > :31:36.2020. The other thing your leader has in
:31:37. > :31:42.common with Mr Trump is that he rather admires Vladimir Putin. Do
:31:43. > :31:49.you? I don't. If you look at Putin's record, he has invaded Ukraine and
:31:50. > :31:53.Georgia. I am absolutely not a fan. I think that Vladimir Putin is
:31:54. > :31:58.pretty much a nasty man, but beyond that, I believe that in the Middle
:31:59. > :32:05.East, he is generally getting it right in many areas. We need to
:32:06. > :32:09.bring the conflict... Bombing civilians? We need to bring the
:32:10. > :32:13.conflict to an end as fast as possible. The British and American
:32:14. > :32:20.line before Donald Trump is to support rebels, including one is
:32:21. > :32:24.affiliated to Al-Qaeda, to the Taliban. We need to clear these
:32:25. > :32:32.people out and ensure that Syria becomes stable. This controversial
:32:33. > :32:35.breaking point poster from during the referendum campaign. Mr Farage
:32:36. > :32:40.unveiled it, there he is standing in front of it. You can bend it - do
:32:41. > :32:44.you still? Yes, I think it was the wrong poster at the wrong time. I
:32:45. > :32:49.was involved with the vote Leave campaign as well as Ukip's campaign,
:32:50. > :32:52.and I felt strongly that those concerned about immigration were
:32:53. > :32:56.already going to vote to leave because it was a fundamental truth
:32:57. > :32:58.that unless we left the European Union we couldn't control
:32:59. > :33:07.immigration. I thought it was about approaching those soft wavering
:33:08. > :33:11.voters who weren't sure. I don't think I said it was racist, but it
:33:12. > :33:15.was about sovereignty and trade and so forth. That was where we needed
:33:16. > :33:20.to go. I was concerned it might put off some of those wavering voters.
:33:21. > :33:26.People may well say, it was part of the winning campaign. It was Ukip
:33:27. > :33:33.shock and all, which is what you stand for and what makes you
:33:34. > :33:36.different. I said I would know how that I said I would not have gone
:33:37. > :33:39.for that person and I thought it was wrong to do it just a week out from
:33:40. > :33:46.the referendum. However, I believe it released legitimate concerns
:33:47. > :33:54.with a deluge of people making their way from the Middle East and Africa
:33:55. > :33:57.into the European continent. Where is the low hanging fruit for you,
:33:58. > :34:03.particularly in England? Is it Labour or Conservative voters? I
:34:04. > :34:08.want to hang onto the Conservative voters we have got but I think the
:34:09. > :34:12.low hanging fruit is Labour. Jeremy Corbyn won't sing the national
:34:13. > :34:16.anthem, Emily Thornbury despises the English flag. Diane Abbott thinks
:34:17. > :34:20.anyone talking about immigration is racist. Not to mention John
:34:21. > :34:24.McDonnell's feelings about the IRA. Labour has ceased to be a party for
:34:25. > :34:29.working people and I think Ukip is absolutely going to be that party.
:34:30. > :34:35.It is clear, I absolutely concur with everything Suzanne has said. I
:34:36. > :34:39.first voiced this back in 2008 that I believe Ukip has a fantastic
:34:40. > :34:43.opportunity in working-class communities, and everyone laughed at
:34:44. > :34:45.me. It is clear now that we resonate with working people, and you have
:34:46. > :34:52.seen that in the Brexit result. Would you bring back the death
:34:53. > :34:56.penalty? It wouldn't be Ukip policy. Absolutely not. Would you give more
:34:57. > :35:00.money to the NHS and how would your fanatic? You like it is important to
:35:01. > :35:09.fund it adequately, and it hasn t been to date. We promised in our
:35:10. > :35:14.manifesto that we would give more money. Where does the money come
:35:15. > :35:19.from? It is about tackling health tourism. I think the NHS is being
:35:20. > :35:24.taken for a ride at the moment. That may be right, but where does the
:35:25. > :35:28.money come from? It is about scaling back management in the NHS, because
:35:29. > :35:33.that has burgeoned beyond control. They are spending far more money on
:35:34. > :35:38.management. Where would you save money? We need to look at HS two,
:35:39. > :35:43.foreign aid. Now we have Brexit and we will be saving on the membership
:35:44. > :35:46.fee. We need to cut back on management, as Suzanne says. It
:35:47. > :35:53.cannot be right that 51% of people who work for the NHS in England are
:35:54. > :35:59.not clinically qualified. The NHS needs money now - where would you
:36:00. > :36:05.get it? From HS two. That is capital spending spread over a long period.
:36:06. > :36:09.Where will you get the money now? OK, another one. We spent ?25
:36:10. > :36:14.million every day on foreign aid to countries who sometimes are richer
:36:15. > :36:18.than ourselves. Through the Barnett formula. You would take money away
:36:19. > :36:34.from Scotland? Yes, I think they get far too much. PG tips or Earl Grey?
:36:35. > :36:42.Colegrave. PG tips. Strictly come dancing or X Factor? Neither.
:36:43. > :36:47.Strictly. I would love to be on it one day. There you go. Thank you
:36:48. > :36:51.It's just gone 11:35am, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:36:52. > :36:54.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:36:55. > :37:12.Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead.
:37:13. > :37:13.Welcome to Sunday Politics South, my name's Peter Henley.
:37:14. > :37:16.On today's show, rising tensions between Oxford's neighbours.
:37:17. > :37:17.More students are moving into residential areas,
:37:18. > :37:19.leading to complaints about noise and disruption.
:37:20. > :37:21.But Oxford Brookes University says building an extra
:37:22. > :37:23.1,500 rooms in student halls over the next five years.
:37:24. > :37:27.First, let's meet the two politicians
:37:28. > :37:31.Louise Goldsmith is the Conservative leader of West Sussex Counchl,
:37:32. > :37:32.welcome, Louise. Hello.
:37:33. > :37:34.And Simon Letts is the Labour leader of
:37:35. > :37:36.Southampton City Council. Morning.
:37:37. > :37:38.You're just back from the United States.
:37:39. > :37:48.Yes, I had a week stay in New York with my family.
:37:49. > :37:49.Yes, so, did Donald win or Hillary lose?
:37:50. > :37:51.Yes. Yes.
:37:52. > :37:54.You agree? All the evidence is that wax.
:37:55. > :37:56.It's going to have an impact on us, though, isn't it?
:37:57. > :37:59.The number of Democrat voters that turned out was
:38:00. > :38:02.much lower than for Barack Obama, the previous two times so clearly it
:38:03. > :38:05.is a failure to get your own vote out was the issue.
:38:06. > :38:08.I think there was a lot of people that were
:38:09. > :38:11.unhappy and therefore didn't vote that time ago but the other thing
:38:12. > :38:15.was that a lot of people who didn't normally vote had registered and
:38:16. > :38:19.they were under the radar as far as the polls were concerned, those
:38:20. > :38:23.people came out, but I do know that in New York there were long queues
:38:24. > :38:25.at the polling station when I walked past.
:38:26. > :38:27.What is there to learn for
:38:28. > :38:36.I think it's really important to engage with your residents `nd make
:38:37. > :38:40.sure that you're representing them, putting your case forward.
:38:41. > :38:43.I think that is very important on a local level
:38:44. > :38:45.Take nothing for granted. Absolutely.
:38:46. > :38:50.We have discussed this, and there is a link between Brexit
:38:51. > :38:59.and the Trump vote which saxs that a number of quite a lot of people's
:39:00. > :39:02.felt that their voices had been ignored for a period of timd, and
:39:03. > :39:11.made their voices and loud and clear, and we need to start to
:39:12. > :39:14.listen to those voices, and make sure we adress some of the hssues
:39:15. > :39:16.that they raised, for example living standards.
:39:17. > :39:19.Well, the Autumn Statement hs the opportunity for Philip Hammond.
:39:20. > :39:20.Absolutely. If he wants to.
:39:21. > :39:24.Well, George Osborne used to use it as a bit of a political gamd,
:39:25. > :39:31.Do you think that he's going to be keeping stuff under his
:39:32. > :39:37.hat again, or do you think this infrastructure spending that we re
:39:38. > :39:39.seeing with Trump will be what doing here?
:39:40. > :39:43.got a very difficult job because he's not got a lot
:39:44. > :39:45.of room to move but I think with the industrial
:39:46. > :39:48.strategy and it's really important to invest in the economy now and
:39:49. > :39:51.show that we are very much open for business, we have stated it
:39:52. > :39:55.And I do hope that there will be money for
:39:56. > :39:59.Something is happening there, isn't it?
:40:00. > :40:00.There's been a consultation, on the first phase.
:40:01. > :40:03.The second consultation on @rundell to Worthing will be coming out
:40:04. > :40:06.So we await the announcement, but there are other
:40:07. > :40:08.things that could be done and we are talking
:40:09. > :40:10.about a lot of houses being
:40:11. > :40:12.developed and I'd like to sde personally that we can put
:40:13. > :40:15.infrastructure in first because I think that's what a lot
:40:16. > :40:20.If we have to have the housds, we have to have the
:40:21. > :40:22.infrastructure first, and that's going to be really important.
:40:23. > :40:25.So many times we've heard about housing.
:40:26. > :40:28.Would you like to build your own, in Southampton,
:40:29. > :40:31.I'd like to endorse that pohnt because there is a failure of
:40:32. > :40:34.political decision-making in this country over 50 years that we have
:40:35. > :40:37.not put in the sufficient infrastructure.
:40:38. > :40:42.One of the reasons that we produce less per hour than
:40:43. > :40:45.the French and the Germans `nd the Americans is because people are
:40:46. > :40:49.wasting time trying to get from A to B, and are stuck hn jams.
:40:50. > :40:51.If the M27 was to have an accident, the whole
:40:52. > :40:54.of our local economy, you know, is severely affected for half a day.
:40:55. > :40:57.But these are going to be the big, grandiose, big-ticket things
:40:58. > :41:00.I mean, we just want faster broadband, don't we?
:41:01. > :41:01.Well, we're getting faster broadband.
:41:02. > :41:06.We are looking at 4G and 5G through our
:41:07. > :41:08.Devo bid, so there are other things that are going on.
:41:09. > :41:11.I do think that there is a issue around developing
:41:12. > :41:17.more houses and bringing them on stream.
:41:18. > :41:20.I think if they put that infrastructure in it would be a
:41:21. > :41:21.really welcome thing for many people.
:41:22. > :41:30.Now, it's often been seen as a lifeline for
:41:31. > :41:33.But research by the national association
:41:34. > :41:36.of care catering shows that only a third of people eligible
:41:37. > :41:38.to receive meals on wheels do so, and in the
:41:39. > :41:41.south-east that's one of thd lowest figures in the country.
:41:42. > :41:43.Now, for the first time, the number of councils
:41:44. > :41:46.providing the service has dropped below half.
:41:47. > :41:48.Neil Radia is the national chair of the national
:41:49. > :41:56.This survey shows a steep decline in just two years.
:41:57. > :42:02.We conducted independent research this year that
:42:03. > :42:05.looked at how many top tier local authorities across the UK still
:42:06. > :42:10.provide the meals on wheels service, and our figures showed that less
:42:11. > :42:15.than half are now actively providing the meals on wheels service, which
:42:16. > :42:20.They're pointing people to alternatives, aren't thex?
:42:21. > :42:22.Absolutely. Is that good enough?
:42:23. > :42:32.What we have found in our studies is that those who are not actively
:42:33. > :42:34.providing the service are signposting to services.
:42:35. > :42:37.And you've got some great examples of signposting where they are
:42:38. > :42:39.working in partnership with private providers or working in partnership
:42:40. > :42:41.with social enterprises or dven combining the services
:42:42. > :42:46.Nice! Like we used to back 80 years ago.
:42:47. > :42:50.But then we have also seen in the study that we have done
:42:51. > :42:54.that we have some local authorities who are
:42:55. > :42:58.actually signposting to a wdbsite for the local authority, and having
:42:59. > :43:02.lists of local supermarkets and even in a couple of cases...
:43:03. > :43:07.So, Doris at number 33 loses the meals on wheels,
:43:08. > :43:09.checks the website and they say go to Tesco's.
:43:10. > :43:14.I mean, we've seen a few cases where we've even
:43:15. > :43:18.seen fast food joints on websites saying, you know, you can gdt your
:43:19. > :43:22.services, just a huge list of services on a website, and to be
:43:23. > :43:26.honest with you for somebodx, a senior citizen living in our
:43:27. > :43:29.community, that is quite appalling, to be signposted in such a way.
:43:30. > :43:32.But at the same time, we've had some really good study reports,
:43:33. > :43:38.examples of working in partnership with other people.
:43:39. > :43:42.The problem is if demand drops off in an area or the subsidy
:43:43. > :43:48.is taken away or whatever, ht just becomes much more expensive per
:43:49. > :43:51.meal, and what you're getting from a hot meal, meals on wheels,
:43:52. > :43:54.catering company, whatever, is perhaps not as good as you could get
:43:55. > :43:56.in a supermarket, and stick in a microwave.
:43:57. > :43:58.One of the reasons that we're hearing from local authorithes
:43:59. > :44:01.who are shutting, stopping the meals on wheels service is that they are
:44:02. > :44:04.saying that there is a declhne of people wanting to use the sdrvices.
:44:05. > :44:08.Quite surprising in a nation where we have a rising older
:44:09. > :44:11.Well, maybe it's not just up-to-date enough.
:44:12. > :44:12.Maybe this is a little bit old-fashioned.
:44:13. > :44:16.I disagree with that. Because there are meals services...
:44:17. > :44:19.Unless you actually see some of the quality of
:44:20. > :44:22.the meals that are out therd, there's some very good servhces
:44:23. > :44:25.The problem we have with those local authorities who are
:44:26. > :44:29.shutting the service down is that they are...
:44:30. > :44:32.What they are saying is because of...
:44:33. > :44:36.Well, they're stopping the subsidies,
:44:37. > :44:39.which is making the meals unfundable, and they are not
:44:40. > :44:47.actively monitoring.
:44:48. > :44:48.--marketing. The meals on wheels
:44:49. > :44:50.service is such... It's a preventative service,
:44:51. > :44:51.it's such a vital valuable service,
:44:52. > :44:53.and anyone knows from the commercial side
:44:54. > :44:56.that if you do not market a servhce,
:44:57. > :45:00.to get the uptake, if peopld don't know the service is there pdople
:45:01. > :45:06.Do you see meals on wheels as the future in Southampton, Simon,
:45:07. > :45:09.or is it just a drag on your very tight budget?
:45:10. > :45:11.We have a very unique agreelent I think come across the
:45:12. > :45:16.country, in that we have a provider that used to work for the council
:45:17. > :45:19.who have now set up as a mutual and they provide are meals on wheels
:45:20. > :45:22.service and they also provide an excellent
:45:23. > :45:23.service and they also provide an excellent service
:45:24. > :45:27.There is a partnership between schools and
:45:28. > :45:31.the provider which means thdy share any profit that comes out, `nd so it
:45:32. > :45:35.is a way of encouraging schools to stay with the city service rather
:45:36. > :45:46.So numbers rising or falling? I think they are rising, marginally.
:45:47. > :45:49.The service is provided by City Catering, and we are very pleased
:45:50. > :45:52.It's still pretty tough, isn't it, when
:45:53. > :45:56.the central government funding is being cut,
:45:57. > :45:59.and that is not statutory, and you don't have to provide.
:46:00. > :46:00.And it's absolutely the reason why you
:46:01. > :46:03.should be providing it for all the reasons you said.
:46:04. > :46:05.I'm really proud that we have another unique option
:46:06. > :46:07.in West Sussex with a private provider, we are providing really
:46:08. > :46:11.I know, because I've had a couple of them.
:46:12. > :46:14.And is the take-up rising or falling? It's rising.
:46:15. > :46:16.We have done about over 150,000 meals and
:46:17. > :46:19.that's including about 22,000 that have gone to care centres
:46:20. > :46:25.But we also have a unique offering
:46:26. > :46:33.When they come in, they can have a quick check with the
:46:34. > :46:35.whoever it is, how are they, are they OK?
:46:36. > :46:45.I will say this, because it is important.
:46:46. > :46:48.We've got the two best in the country!
:46:49. > :46:56.task and finish group that put a recommendation in that if people
:46:57. > :46:59.were falling off taking thehr meals, we need to check back and fhnd out
:47:00. > :47:01.why. And, you know, it sounds like such
:47:02. > :47:03.a basic but it is a really important...
:47:04. > :47:09.It is, for society as a whole you see this as an
:47:10. > :47:10.investment that might save money in other places.
:47:11. > :47:13.But the budgeting system doesn't reward bad.
:47:14. > :47:17.I think that it does becausd the key goal is
:47:18. > :47:20.to keep people independent in their own home, and this is part
:47:21. > :47:22.of that, and so if we keep people independent
:47:23. > :47:25.and supported in their own homes that is much more cost-effective,
:47:26. > :47:28.and it is what people gener`lly do, rather than going out of a home
:47:29. > :47:29.setting. So, like somebody
:47:30. > :47:30.coming to the door... Exactly, loneliness
:47:31. > :47:39.is a big issue.
:47:40. > :47:42.Our provider can do many thhngs whether it is salt free
:47:43. > :47:44.diets or whether people havd swallowing diets, you know, no other
:47:45. > :47:46.food producer is going to provide that service.
:47:47. > :47:48.Well done Sussex. And Southampton.
:47:49. > :47:51.According to your survey, that's right, isn't it?
:47:52. > :47:55.One place it is not, it's 100% agreement they will continud
:47:56. > :47:58.in Northern Ireland where the social care and the NHS is combined.
:47:59. > :48:01.Absolutely, so where we havd seen the social care, health budget
:48:02. > :48:05.integrating, we actually st`rted seeing, you know, those are the
:48:06. > :48:08.areas that people have joindd up thinking, a lot of talking, in many
:48:09. > :48:12.So when we did the survey a couple of years ago, therd
:48:13. > :48:15.were a couple of local authorities around the UK where they were
:48:16. > :48:18.actually running on their own social care budget, but then we fotnd out
:48:19. > :48:20.this year that where these budgets are integrated,
:48:21. > :48:22.they have started talking.
:48:23. > :48:24.Prevention is actually far cheaper than cure,
:48:25. > :48:25.and the average cost...
:48:26. > :48:30.The Department of Health last year showcased that the average
:48:31. > :48:33.cost of a hospital bed is ?400 per day. Yes.
:48:34. > :48:38.Now, if we can keep the services like meals on wheels in our
:48:39. > :48:40.communities longer, then all we are doing is helping the NHS
:48:41. > :48:43.and health services alleviate some of the pressures
:48:44. > :48:45.that they are facing at the moment, so health and social
:48:46. > :48:48.care is about working in partnership together,
:48:49. > :48:50.and actually seeing how we
:48:51. > :48:53.can prevent people from going into hospital and keeping them in their
:48:54. > :48:58.own homes, independent, for longer, and it is not only about food.
:48:59. > :49:02.People see meals on wheels... Sorry, it's just about...
:49:03. > :49:07.The longer you stay that way, the better.
:49:08. > :49:12.Neil, thank you very much for coming in and talking about it.
:49:13. > :49:17.Now, do you get on with your neighbours?
:49:18. > :49:19.For some, in areas of Oxford harmony between
:49:20. > :49:22.households is in short supply, as there has been a rise in students
:49:23. > :49:24.moving into private homes, and complaints about noise `nd
:49:25. > :49:27.Our Oxfordshire reporter Bethan Phillips has more.
:49:28. > :49:34.# Everybody needs good neighbours...#
:49:35. > :49:37.Students are very good at some things.
:49:38. > :49:44.But it seems they don't alw`ys make the best neighbours.
:49:45. > :49:52.Two o'clock in the morning, them all running past
:49:53. > :49:54.in shopping trolleys screamhng, is it a good thing?
:49:55. > :49:58.And in Oxford, the tension between town and gown
:49:59. > :50:02.I've been given this letter which was sent to students
:50:03. > :50:08.It says the university has seen a significant rise in the
:50:09. > :50:11.number of local residents r`ising extremely serious concerns `bout
:50:12. > :50:15.noise and disturbance caused by students.
:50:16. > :50:18.It says students that don't adhere to its conduct regulations
:50:19. > :50:27.Ross Clark has lived in east Oxford all his life,
:50:28. > :50:31.and says the area is changing rapidly.
:50:32. > :50:37.prices have rocketed, peopld who own their own houses have
:50:38. > :50:41.obviously benefited, but
:50:42. > :50:43.we've had some terrible neighbours, and great neighbours.
:50:44. > :50:45.You know, but when you get terrible ones,
:50:46. > :50:48.But students themselves aren't so sure
:50:49. > :51:00.We live a varied road, studdnts families...
:51:01. > :51:03.And I think, well, from my friends and me, I think we are
:51:04. > :51:06.You can communicate with them and you can
:51:07. > :51:12.If I have like a party then we will be like, yeah,
:51:13. > :51:14.after a certain time, let's keep it down,
:51:15. > :51:16.but it's not our major thought, let's say.
:51:17. > :51:18.Yeah, it's not like the first thing we think of.
:51:19. > :51:21.More students are now living in private homes in Oxford,
:51:22. > :51:24.and it means competition for houses is high.
:51:25. > :51:27.This is what we will be seehng outside letting agents this week
:51:28. > :51:32.as the student housing lists for next year are released.
:51:33. > :51:35.You have people in tents, having cups of tea and a
:51:36. > :51:39.singsong at night, and sometimes they have been
:51:40. > :51:42.The most organised queue up first because they get
:51:43. > :51:48.Oxford City Council has set a limit of 3,000 students for
:51:49. > :51:50.each university living in private accommodation per year to e`se
:51:51. > :51:56.The University of Oxford has managed to
:51:57. > :51:58.stick to it, but Oxford Brookes has broken the threshold
:51:59. > :52:02.Last year, more than 3,700 of its students rented priv`te
:52:03. > :52:07.homes, rather than living in university halls.
:52:08. > :52:09.It's disappointing, and Brooks are as disappointed
:52:10. > :52:14.They need to build more student housing, they
:52:15. > :52:17.need to house more of their students in their own accommodation, they
:52:18. > :52:20.have plans coming forward for really significant numbers that will
:52:21. > :52:25.Oxford Brookes says it is planning to build an extra 1,500 student
:52:26. > :52:30.There is a long pipeline to respond to these issues.
:52:31. > :52:38.Once you have identified the opportunity, it really takes you
:52:39. > :52:41.five years to get the first students into those halls of residence.
:52:42. > :52:45.With the current shortage of space in
:52:46. > :52:48.there's cash to be made by
:52:49. > :52:57.So how much would this be asking for, then?
:52:58. > :52:59.This is about ?1,300 per calendar month.
:53:00. > :53:06.But right in the city centrd, brand-new apartment,
:53:07. > :53:09.nice facilities, they're willing to pay it.
:53:10. > :53:14.Oxford wouldn't be Oxford without students, but it
:53:15. > :53:19.seems there's still some work to do for the to find the perfect blend.
:53:20. > :53:22.seems there's still some work to do for the city
:53:23. > :53:36.1300 a month for a one bed flat in Oxford.
:53:37. > :53:39.Well, they are, aren't they must remark but you are pleased to
:53:40. > :53:41.see more students in Chichester, aren't you?
:53:42. > :53:44.Well, we have a good university in Chichester but it also
:53:45. > :53:47.has a hub down at Bognor Regis that is expanding with the digit`l and
:53:48. > :53:49.engineering, and they are building accommodation.
:53:50. > :53:50.It's a regeneration project, sometimes, when you get
:53:51. > :53:53.these new university buildings and all the rest of it. Yes.
:53:54. > :53:57.It has had funding from us, we are very supportive, we
:53:58. > :54:00.are working on the digital offer with them, and can you know, we are
:54:01. > :54:03.very pleased to see them expanding because that will help not only
:54:04. > :54:05.Bognor Regis but West Sussex as well.
:54:06. > :54:07.Who is paying for all this? It's the grant, isn't it?
:54:08. > :54:11.They're not grants, of course, they are loans.
:54:12. > :54:13.which the students have to spend on accommodation.
:54:14. > :54:14.And in Southampton there has been conflict,
:54:15. > :54:16.hasn't there, in private housing areas?
:54:17. > :54:17.Yes, there has been a certain amount.
:54:18. > :54:19.There are 40,000 students in the city
:54:20. > :54:21.and of course that is quite a lot,
:54:22. > :54:28.We think just under 5,000 private homes that are let out to
:54:29. > :54:37.We're quite keen to get that number down, as it is...
:54:38. > :54:39.You can move them into studdnt accommodation?
:54:40. > :54:42.I have developers queueing tp to do that work, and I
:54:43. > :54:45.think in terms of the numbers it is either in construction or just
:54:46. > :54:48.constructed or been proposed to be constructed about 5,000 units of
:54:49. > :54:55.Largely off the back of public development right changes, so office
:54:56. > :54:58.blocks going into students accommodations because they don t
:54:59. > :55:00.need amenity spaces, or car parking so much,
:55:01. > :55:02.and so you can actually convert buildings that
:55:03. > :55:04.wouldn't be suitable for other residential usage to student
:55:05. > :55:06.accommodation, and to take a bit of pressure
:55:07. > :55:07.off the family housing that
:55:08. > :55:11.They go away for the holidays, I suppose,
:55:12. > :55:15.I think there is a growing trend we have seen them now,
:55:16. > :55:18.where people are not choosing universities far away but locally
:55:19. > :55:24.where they can go and attend, and I think that will be a growing...
:55:25. > :55:33.One of the growing markets where people
:55:34. > :55:34.commute to university, going to get a degree.
:55:35. > :55:37.Doesn't it sometimes seem like students are a cash cow?
:55:38. > :55:39.You know, you pay an awful lot of money
:55:40. > :55:41.now, to get a degree, for a commendation
:55:42. > :55:44.Well, people are coming out huge amounts of
:55:45. > :55:48.lot of them would say, well, we'll go locally.
:55:49. > :55:49.That would save them some money Well...
:55:50. > :55:53.The life at home is very different to what it was 20,
:55:54. > :55:55.30 years ago, and so perhaps they put some
:55:56. > :55:57.money into travelling when they finish,
:55:58. > :55:59.but when they come out, trained with a degree, most
:56:00. > :56:01.importantly, ready for work, and that's what it's about.
:56:02. > :56:03.Yeah. The whole thing is evolving,
:56:04. > :56:05.and vocational education and apprenticeships are important
:56:06. > :56:08.Well, I think it's incredibly important and having talked
:56:09. > :56:11.to quite a lot of businesses they really want to grow thdir own
:56:12. > :56:12.staff, and recruiting in on apprentices
:56:13. > :56:15.and training them up is
:56:16. > :56:18.going to be a greater trend I think in the future.
:56:19. > :56:20.Yes, we will need the specialists from
:56:21. > :56:23.universities and we will nedd those talents, but I think it is luch
:56:24. > :56:27.It does have an impact on council funding as well
:56:28. > :56:30.because of course students `re not required to pay council tax, so we
:56:31. > :56:33.have 5,000 properties on which we collect no local
:56:34. > :56:37.taxation, and of course the same applies to these
:56:38. > :56:40.large accommodation blocks of largely, you know, officd
:56:41. > :56:43.accommodation which would h`ve paid us business rates.
:56:44. > :56:46.But in general a good thing? And now are not paying as anything.
:56:47. > :56:49.And if we are self funding in three years' time, with
:56:50. > :56:52.business rates, we need to get this addressed by government, and I have
:56:53. > :56:54.written to Mr Hammond suggesting that he needs
:56:55. > :56:56.to think about that in future budgets
:56:57. > :56:58.because it will have a big impact on otr city.
:56:59. > :57:00.Can we talk some more about the Autumn Statement?
:57:01. > :57:04.But first our regular round-up of the political
:57:05. > :57:06.week in the south in 60 Seconds,
:57:07. > :57:14.and it's all about the need for speed.
:57:15. > :57:16.The government's being urged to speed up the creation of
:57:17. > :57:19.an east - west rail link from Oxford to Cambridge.
:57:20. > :57:21.It was first suggested in the 1990s.
:57:22. > :57:24.Scientists at Harwell have developed a new, faster x-r`y beam
:57:25. > :57:28.which will improve research into disease.
:57:29. > :57:31.The slow crawl of traffic into Oxford could be
:57:32. > :57:34.relieved by taxing companies who provide car parking spaces.
:57:35. > :57:37.The county council says thex'd use the cash
:57:38. > :57:46.This would be used for improving the infrastructure,
:57:47. > :57:48.better remote park and rides, additional bus lanes.
:57:49. > :57:55.Residents of a West Dorset village revolutionised their broadb`nd by
:57:56. > :57:58.installing a 15 mile microw`ve link which connects to discrete receivers
:57:59. > :58:01.People can surf the Internet in the village now as
:58:02. > :58:09.And plans to slow the water flow through New Forest streams to create
:58:10. > :58:11.new wetland have been halted, planners ruled
:58:12. > :58:13.against one and a half million pound band to fill
:58:14. > :58:16.in Lattimore Brooke after rdsidents' objections.
:58:17. > :58:18.Now, we're not going to slow down because we're
:58:19. > :58:19.running out of time on
:58:20. > :58:24.For the Autumn Statement, Louise, the one thing
:58:25. > :58:27.Well, I'd like to see some transition funding for our
:58:28. > :58:30.schools as well, and as you know we've had
:58:31. > :58:31.quite a big campaign, we
:58:32. > :58:34.are supporting the schools. Are you going to get it?
:58:35. > :58:37.The funding... I'm not sure,
:58:38. > :58:40.because I think it is a difficult time for Philip H`mmond.
:58:41. > :58:46.If it's more for West Sussex and thus
:58:47. > :58:53.They have had serious underfunding for decades.
:58:54. > :58:55.And it is a cumulative effect which is really
:58:56. > :58:59.For us, we want to give children the best start in life.
:59:00. > :59:03.That means, you know, good parenting, good home life btt also
:59:04. > :59:10.And they going to get the extra money or are
:59:11. > :59:13.Well, it's a government 's decisions, so we're
:59:14. > :59:15.not in the position to stop it but...
:59:16. > :59:18.But they would take it from you?
:59:19. > :59:20.We are arguing strongly that the students in Southalpton
:59:21. > :59:24.schools, there is a reason why they get less support and we would argue
:59:25. > :59:26.very strongly that they continue to get it.
:59:27. > :59:28.I would like to hear, pleasd Mr Chancellor can we have bdtter
:59:29. > :59:33.Because that will save the whole British economy money because we can
:59:34. > :59:36.which will be saved through the health budget. Right.
:59:37. > :59:38.Let's hope he's watching, if not, Theresa May.
:59:39. > :59:44.There's an idea! In Maidenhdad, please by Minister... Just have a
:59:45. > :59:50.word with the Chancellor. That's the Sunday politics in the south. Thank
:59:51. > :59:53.you to my guests, Louise Goldsmith from West Sussex and Simon lets from
:59:54. > :59:57.Southampton. You can keep up on my blog, there is the address but
:59:58. > :00:00.never happened and will not happen in four years. It is subject we
:00:01. > :00:09.should spend more time on. Back to you.
:00:10. > :00:13.What will the Chancellor have to say in his first big economic statement?
:00:14. > :00:16.What impact will the forecasters say Brexit will have on the economy
:00:17. > :00:19.And who will face the Front National's Marine Le Pen in
:00:20. > :00:34.Well, the Shadow Chancellor and the Chancellor have both been
:00:35. > :00:35.touring the television studios this morning.
:00:36. > :00:41.Let's be clear, a lot of this is going to be gimmicks and press
:00:42. > :00:45.As I've said, in the pipeline, we've only
:00:46. > :00:48.seen one in five delivered to construction, that's all.
:00:49. > :00:51.So a lot of this will be a repeat of what
:00:52. > :00:54.I'm not going to reveal what I'm going to say on
:00:55. > :00:59.We don't have unlimited capacity, as one might
:01:00. > :01:02.imagine from listening to John McDonnell, to borrow
:01:03. > :01:07.hundreds of billions of pounds more for discretionary spending.
:01:08. > :01:10.That simply doesn't exist if we're going to
:01:11. > :01:13.retain this country's hard-won credibility in the financial markets
:01:14. > :01:17.if we are going to remain an attractive place for business to
:01:18. > :01:31.We didn't learn very much, Helen, but the papers were briefed this
:01:32. > :01:38.morning that there will be another ?1.3 billion for roads and things
:01:39. > :01:44.like that. ?1.3 billion is 0.08 of our GDP. Not exactly an
:01:45. > :01:48.infrastructure investment programme, is it? Yellow like I have to say, it
:01:49. > :01:57.was not thrilling to read the details. -- I have to say... It is
:01:58. > :02:01.the first big financial statement that is going to come and I think
:02:02. > :02:05.there will be a big row about the OBE are forecast because they cannot
:02:06. > :02:10.set out a range, they have to commit to one forecast. Everything they do
:02:11. > :02:19.is incredibly political. DOB are is on a hiding to nothing. -- DOB are
:02:20. > :02:27.-- the Office for Budget Responsibility. I don't know how
:02:28. > :02:31.they will square the circle. It is an interesting week. It is all about
:02:32. > :02:35.the economy and public finances and we don't have to talk about Brexit
:02:36. > :02:46.until next Sunday, but no, I have a terrible feeling that by the end of
:02:47. > :02:49.Wednesday afternoon we will be screaming and shouting about how
:02:50. > :02:52.Brexit is going to be for the economy. Just imagine the Treasury
:02:53. > :02:57.comes out with his forecast that it is going to collapse growth and
:02:58. > :03:04.collapsed Treasury takings, people will be apoplectic. Until now, the
:03:05. > :03:10.economy has continued to grow strongly. Pretty well. They cannot
:03:11. > :03:14.say, we have noticed it slowing down and that will continue. They have to
:03:15. > :03:18.take a punt if they think it will slow down. It affects the
:03:19. > :03:22.Chancellor's figures, because the more they say it is slowing down,
:03:23. > :03:27.and I have seen that it will go from 2% down to 1.4%, the more the
:03:28. > :03:32.Chancellor's deficit rises even without any more tax cuts and
:03:33. > :03:36.spending. Absolutely. I think Tom is right. What we will see this week is
:03:37. > :03:41.a continuation of the debate we have been having all along. If the Office
:03:42. > :03:45.for Budget Responsibility has negative and gloomy predictions
:03:46. > :03:53.there will be howls of agony, and rightly howls of frustration from
:03:54. > :03:56.Brexiteers who will say that all the dire predictions from before the
:03:57. > :04:00.referendum have not come to pass and now you are talking things down in a
:04:01. > :04:07.way that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The money for roads, you
:04:08. > :04:14.were dismissive about it, but every little helps. I don't dismiss it, I
:04:15. > :04:18.say it doesn't amount to a fiscal stimulus in macro economic terms.
:04:19. > :04:27.I'm sure if you are on that road, it will be useful. They are going to
:04:28. > :04:37.build a super highway between Oxford and Cambridge. I would like to see
:04:38. > :04:41.them go out to Japan and learn how to fill a hole in two days. I would
:04:42. > :04:45.suggest the road from Oxford to Cambridge is not for the just
:04:46. > :04:54.managing classes, even though it goes through Milton Keynes, and that
:04:55. > :05:00.simply freezing due freezing fuel duty isn't going to hack it, either.
:05:01. > :05:04.These just about managing people are potentially quite a big band. With
:05:05. > :05:08.income tax rises, it means anything you do to help them is incredibly
:05:09. > :05:12.expensive. The universal credit freeze is an interesting example of
:05:13. > :05:19.that. Philip Hammond sounded ambivalent about it after
:05:20. > :05:25.pre-briefings that it might not the cuts might not go ahead. There are
:05:26. > :05:31.people who are in work but because they are low paid don't have the
:05:32. > :05:35.number of hours, they require welfare benefits to top up their
:05:36. > :05:40.pay, and these welfare benefits as it stands, are frozen until 202 ,
:05:41. > :05:45.and yet inflation is now starting to rise. That's a problem for the just
:05:46. > :05:54.managing people. Correct. It is worse than that, because we are
:05:55. > :06:00.talking about April 2017 when tax credits become universal credits, so
:06:01. > :06:04.the squeeze will be greater. We will get a small highway between a couple
:06:05. > :06:08.of university towns, but if he has any money left to spend at all, it
:06:09. > :06:15.will be on some pretty seismic jazzman for the just about managing
:06:16. > :06:24.people. I am so glad we're not calling them Jams on this programme,
:06:25. > :06:31.because it is a patronising tone. What the Chancellor and Shadow
:06:32. > :06:36.Chancellor did not confront is that Mr Trump's election is a watershed
:06:37. > :06:39.in terms of being able to borrow cheaply. The Federal Reserve is
:06:40. > :06:43.about to start raising rates. The days of cheap borrowing for
:06:44. > :06:47.governments could be coming to an end. You can feel a bit sorry for
:06:48. > :06:52.labour here because after having had six years of being told that we need
:06:53. > :06:56.a surplus and these things are important, we can't deny the
:06:57. > :07:02.deficit, we have switched now and the first thing that Philip Hammond
:07:03. > :07:05.did was to scrap George Osborne s borrowing targets. He has given
:07:06. > :07:11.himself more wriggle room than George Osborne had. He has and it
:07:12. > :07:16.will cost them more. Debt servicing will now rise as a cost. Where is
:07:17. > :07:23.the next political earthquake going to happen?
:07:24. > :07:29.It could be Italy, or the French elections coming up next spring
:07:30. > :07:32.Now, who will face the Front National's Marine Le Pen in next
:07:33. > :07:33.year's French Presidential elections?
:07:34. > :07:35.Well, France's centre-right part, Les Republicans,
:07:36. > :07:37.are selecting their candidate in the first round of
:07:38. > :07:39.Well, France's centre-right part, Les Republicans,
:07:40. > :07:43.are selecting their candidate in the first round of
:07:44. > :07:47.Let's speak to our correspondent in Paris, Hugh Schofield.
:07:48. > :08:00.Welcome to the programme. Three main candidates, the former -- two former
:08:01. > :08:04.prime ministers and Nicolas Sarkozy, the former president. It is not
:08:05. > :08:08.clear who the front runner is. Robbins it is quite an exciting
:08:09. > :08:22.race, because four weeks it did look as if it was going to be Juppe. It
:08:23. > :08:26.is a two round race. Two go through and the idea is that they rally all
:08:27. > :08:31.the support together. It looked like the first round would be dominated
:08:32. > :08:37.by Juppe and Nicolas Sarkozy, and there was a clear binary combination
:08:38. > :08:42.there, because Sarkozy was looking for squeamish far right voters. In
:08:43. > :08:47.other words, veering clearly to the right and far right on immigration
:08:48. > :08:51.and identity issues. And Juppe is the opposite, saying we had to
:08:52. > :08:57.appeal to the centre. That was what it looked like. But the third
:08:58. > :09:01.candidate has made this really quite staggering surge in the last few
:09:02. > :09:06.days. There was a debate on Thursday and he was deemed to have won it on
:09:07. > :09:11.television. He is coming up strongly, and I wouldn't be at all
:09:12. > :09:16.surprised to see him go through which would be interesting from a
:09:17. > :09:20.British perspective, because if the becomes president, he will be the
:09:21. > :09:28.first president with a British wife. His wife Penelope is Welsh.
:09:29. > :09:31.We will have to leave it there. I would suggest that the reason it is
:09:32. > :09:35.fascinating is that whoever wins this primary for the centre-right
:09:36. > :09:40.party is likely to be the next president, and who the next
:09:41. > :09:42.president is will be very important for Britain in these Brexit
:09:43. > :09:46.negotiations. Nothing will really happen until it is determined. Then
:09:47. > :09:52.after the German elections in October. I would add one more
:09:53. > :10:00.constituent part. The most important thing about the race is who can stop
:10:01. > :10:09.Marine Le Pen. Marine Le Pen will almost be one of the ones in the
:10:10. > :10:14.run-off. The Socialists don't expect much. Francois Hollande is done
:10:15. > :10:19.There is too much of a cliff to climb. Which one of these three
:10:20. > :10:24.centre-right candidates can stop Marine Le Pen? We have had Brexit
:10:25. > :10:33.and Trump, but we could also have Marine Le Pen. If it is Sarkozy it
:10:34. > :10:40.is the battle of the right. In some areas, he has moved to the right of
:10:41. > :10:44.marine Le Pen. I suppose he feels he has do in order to take the wind out
:10:45. > :10:47.of our sails. You wonder if she could succeed later on if she does
:10:48. > :10:51.not this time. Talking to French analysts last night, there was
:10:52. > :10:54.suggesting that she could not do it this time but could win the next
:10:55. > :10:58.time. All the events in France over the last year seemed to provide the
:10:59. > :11:06.most propitious circumstances for her to do well, and particularly if
:11:07. > :11:09.you throw in Trump and Brexit. Suppose it is Mr Sarkozy, and he
:11:10. > :11:13.goes through and wins the Republican nomination, and he and Marine Le Pen
:11:14. > :11:21.go through to the second round, that would mean, think about it, is that
:11:22. > :11:28.a lot of French socialist voters and those on the father left would have
:11:29. > :11:34.to grit their teeth and vote for Nicolas Sarkozy. They might not do
:11:35. > :11:45.it. We might see what we saw in America, where lots of potential
:11:46. > :11:48.Clinton voters did not turn out You got politicians like Melanchon on
:11:49. > :11:54.the far left saying there are foreign workers taking bread out of
:11:55. > :11:58.French workers' mounts. We sometimes forget, because we tend to emphasise
:11:59. > :12:13.the National of the National front, but actually, there are economic
:12:14. > :12:22.policy is quite Bennite. Sarkozy is the Hillary Clinton of the French
:12:23. > :12:29.elections. He is Mr establishment. Juppe and the other third candidate
:12:30. > :12:31.are the same. You have to re-establish candidates running
:12:32. > :12:35.against an antiestablishment candidate. There are populist
:12:36. > :12:40.economic policies from the National front. The other three want to raise
:12:41. > :12:49.the retirement age and cut back on the 35 hour week, which are not
:12:50. > :12:52.classic electoral appeals. Mr Juppe used to be the Mayor of Bordeaux.
:12:53. > :12:57.And we are the biggest importers of claret, so that could have an
:12:58. > :13:03.effect. In 2002, it was Jack Shear against John Marine Le Pen, and the
:13:04. > :13:11.socialist campaign slogan was, vote for the Crook, not the fascist. We
:13:12. > :13:13.will see what they come up with this time.
:13:14. > :13:18.The Daily Politics is back at noon tomorrow on BBC Two,
:13:19. > :13:24.where on Wednesday I will have full coverage of the Chancellor's Autumn
:13:25. > :13:33.But remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.