:00:35. > :00:37.It's Sunday morning, and this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:38. > :00:41.Theresa May will be the first foreign leader to visit US
:00:42. > :00:43.President Donald Trump this week - she's promised to hold "very
:00:44. > :00:46.frank" conversations with the new and controversial
:00:47. > :00:53.Speaking of the 45th President of America,
:00:54. > :00:57.we'll be looking at what the Trump presidency could hold
:00:58. > :01:03.in store for Britain and the rest of the world.
:01:04. > :01:06.And with the Supreme Court expected to say that Parliament should
:01:07. > :01:09.have a vote before the Brexit process begins, we'll ask
:01:10. > :01:13.Shadow Home Secretary Diane Abbott what Labour will do next.
:01:14. > :01:17.In the south, the government's got a new funding formula for schools it
:01:18. > :01:19.says is fairer than the old one, but is it?
:01:20. > :01:33.We'll hear from schools who will actually be worse off.
:01:34. > :01:36.And to talk about all of that and more, I'm joined by three
:01:37. > :01:38.journalists who, in an era of so-called fake news, can be
:01:39. > :01:42.relied upon for their accuracy, their impartiality -
:01:43. > :01:45.and their willingness to come to the studio
:01:46. > :01:51.It's Steve Richards, Julia Hartley-Brewer
:01:52. > :01:58.and Tom Newton Dunn, and during the programme they'll be
:01:59. > :02:01.tweeting as often as the 45th President of the USA in the middle
:02:02. > :02:12.So - the Prime Minister has been appearing on the BBC this morning.
:02:13. > :02:14.She was mostly talking about Donald Trump and Brexit,
:02:15. > :02:17.but she was also asked about a story on the front of this
:02:18. > :02:21.It's reported that an unarmed Trident missile test fired
:02:22. > :02:27.from the submarine HMS Vengeance near the Florida coast in June
:02:28. > :02:36.The paper says the incident took place weeks before a crucial Commons
:02:37. > :02:39.Well, let's have listen to Theresa May talking
:02:40. > :02:45.The issue that we were talking about in the House of Commons
:02:46. > :02:49.It was about whether or not we should renew Trident,
:02:50. > :02:52.whether we should look to the future and have a replacement Trident.
:02:53. > :02:55.That's what we were talking about in the House of Commons.
:02:56. > :02:57.That's what the House of Commons voted for.
:02:58. > :03:02.He doesn't want to defend our country with an independent
:03:03. > :03:10.There are tests that take place all the time, regularly,
:03:11. > :03:18.What we were talking about in that debate that took place...
:03:19. > :03:25.I'm not going to get an answer to this.
:03:26. > :03:32.Tom, it was clear this was going to come up this morning. It is on the
:03:33. > :03:36.front page of the Sunday Times. It would seem to me the Prime Minister
:03:37. > :03:43.wasn't properly briefed on how to reply. I think she probably was, but
:03:44. > :03:46.the Prime Minister we now have doesn't necessarily answer all
:03:47. > :03:54.questions in the straightest way. She didn't answer that one and all.
:03:55. > :04:01.Unlike previous ones? She made it quite clear she was briefed. You
:04:02. > :04:06.read between the Theresa May lines. By simply not answering Andrew Marr
:04:07. > :04:09.four times, it is obvious she knew, and that she knew before she went
:04:10. > :04:16.into the House of Commons and urged everyone to renew the ?40 billion
:04:17. > :04:19.replacement programme. Of course it is an embarrassment, but does it
:04:20. > :04:25.have political legs? I don't think so. She didn't mislead the Commons.
:04:26. > :04:31.If she wanted to close it down, the answer should have been, these are
:04:32. > :04:34.matters of national security. There's nothing more important in
:04:35. > :04:41.that than our nuclear deterrent. I'm not prepared to talk about testing.
:04:42. > :04:46.End of. But she didn't. Maybe you should be briefing her. That's a
:04:47. > :04:51.good answer. She is an interesting interviewee. She shows it when she
:04:52. > :04:55.is nervous. She was transparently uneasy answering those questions,
:04:56. > :05:01.and the fact she didn't answer it definitively suggests she did know
:05:02. > :05:05.and didn't want to say it, and she answered awkwardly. But how wider
:05:06. > :05:10.point, that the House of Commons voted for the renewal of Trident,
:05:11. > :05:15.suggests to me that in the broader sweep of things, this will not run,
:05:16. > :05:21.because if there was another vote, I would suggest she'd win it again.
:05:22. > :05:26.But it is an embarrassment and she handled it with a transparent
:05:27. > :05:32.awkwardness. She said that the tests go on all the time, but not of the
:05:33. > :05:36.missiles. Does it not show that when the Prime Minister leaves her
:05:37. > :05:41.comfort zone of Home Office affairs or related matters, she often
:05:42. > :05:48.struggles. We've seen it under questioning from Mr Corbyn even, and
:05:49. > :05:51.we saw it again today. Absolutely. Tests of various aspects of the
:05:52. > :05:57.missiles go on all the time, but there's only been five since 2000.
:05:58. > :06:01.What you described wouldn't have worked, because in previous tests
:06:02. > :06:09.they have always been very public about it. Look how well our missiles
:06:10. > :06:17.work! She may not have misled Parliament, but she may not have
:06:18. > :06:22.known about it. If she didn't know, does Michael Fallon still have a job
:06:23. > :06:28.on Monday? Should Parliament know about a test that doesn't work? Some
:06:29. > :06:34.would say absolutely not. Our deterrent is there to deter people
:06:35. > :06:39.from attacking us. If they know that we are hitting the United States by
:06:40. > :06:44.mistake rather than the Atlantic Ocean, then... There is such a thing
:06:45. > :06:49.as national security, and telling all the bad guys about where we are
:06:50. > :06:53.going wrong may not be a good idea. It was her first statement as Prime
:06:54. > :06:59.Minister to put her case for renewal, to have the vote on
:07:00. > :07:03.Trident, and in that context, it is significant not to say anything. If
:07:04. > :07:06.anyone knows where the missile landed, give us a call!
:07:07. > :07:09.So Donald Trump's inauguration day closed with him dancing
:07:10. > :07:11.to Frank Sinatra's My Way, and whatever your view on the 45th
:07:12. > :07:14.President of the United States he certainly did do it his way.
:07:15. > :07:17.Not for him the idealistic call for national unity -
:07:18. > :07:19.instead he used Friday's inaugural address to launch a blistering
:07:20. > :07:23.attack on the dark state of the nation and the political
:07:24. > :07:27.class, and to promise to take his uncompromising approach
:07:28. > :07:31.from the campaign trail to the White House.
:07:32. > :07:35.Here's Adam Fleming, with a reminder of how
:07:36. > :07:43.First, dropping by for a cup of tea and a slightly awkward exchange
:07:44. > :07:52.Then, friends, foes and predecessors watched
:07:53. > :07:59.I, Donald John Trump, do solemnly swear...
:08:00. > :08:03.The crowds seemed smaller than previous inaugurations,
:08:04. > :08:08.the speech tougher then any previous incoming president.
:08:09. > :08:15.From this day forth, it's going to be only America first.
:08:16. > :08:40.In the meantime, there were sporadic protests in Washington, DC.
:08:41. > :08:44.Opponents made their voices heard around the world too.
:08:45. > :08:46.The President, who'd criticised the work of
:08:47. > :08:50.the intelligence agencies, fitted in a visit to the CIA.
:08:51. > :08:54.There is nobody that feels stronger about the intelligence community
:08:55. > :09:06.And, back at the office, in the dark, a signature signalled
:09:07. > :09:11.the end of the Obama era and the dawn of Trump.
:09:12. > :09:18.So, as you heard there, President Trump used his
:09:19. > :09:20.inauguration to repeat his campaign promise to put "America first"
:09:21. > :09:23.in all his decisions, and offered some hints of what to expect
:09:24. > :09:40.He talked of in America in carnage, to be rebuilt by American hands and
:09:41. > :09:44.American Labour. President Trump has already started to dismantle key
:09:45. > :09:48.parts of the Obama Legacy, including the unwinding of the affordable care
:09:49. > :09:54.act, and the siding of the climate action plan to tackle global
:09:55. > :09:59.warning. Little to say about foreign policy, but promised to eradicate
:10:00. > :10:03.Islamic terrorism from the face of the Earth, insisting he would
:10:04. > :10:09.restore the US military to unquestioning dominance. He also
:10:10. > :10:13.said the US would develop a state missile defence system to deal with
:10:14. > :10:18.threats he sees from Iran and North Korea. In a statement that painted a
:10:19. > :10:24.bleak picture of the country he now runs, he said his would be a law and
:10:25. > :10:29.order Administration, and he would keep the innocents safe by building
:10:30. > :10:34.the border war with Mexico. One thing he didn't mention, for the
:10:35. > :10:37.first time ever, there is a Eurosceptic in the oval office, who
:10:38. > :10:40.is also an enthusiast for Brexit. We're joined now by Ted Malloch -
:10:41. > :10:43.he's a Trump supporter who's been tipped as the president's
:10:44. > :10:45.choice for US ambassador to the EU, and he's
:10:46. > :10:48.just flown back from Washington. And by James Rubin -
:10:49. > :10:59.he's a democrat who served Let's start with that last point I
:11:00. > :11:06.made in the voice over there. We now have a Eurosceptic in the oval
:11:07. > :11:09.office. He is pro-Brexit and not keen on further European Union
:11:10. > :11:15.integration. What are the implications of that? First of all,
:11:16. > :11:20.a renewal of the US- UK special relationship. You see the Prime
:11:21. > :11:24.Minister already going to build and rebuild this relationship. Already,
:11:25. > :11:29.the bust of Winston Churchill is back in the oval office.
:11:30. > :11:34.Interestingly, Martin Luther King's bust is also there, so there is an
:11:35. > :11:40.act of unity in that first movement of dusts. Donald Trump will be
:11:41. > :11:51.oriented between bilateral relationships and not multilateral
:11:52. > :11:56.or supernatural. Supranational full. What are the implications of someone
:11:57. > :12:02.in the White House now not believing in it? I think we are present in the
:12:03. > :12:06.unravelling of America's leadership of the West. There is now a thing
:12:07. > :12:14.called the west that America has led since the end of World War II,
:12:15. > :12:23.creating supranational - we just heard supernatural! These
:12:24. > :12:28.institutions were created. With American leadership, the world was
:12:29. > :12:32.at peace in Europe, and the world grew increasingly democratic and
:12:33. > :12:37.prosperous. Wars were averted that could be extremely costly. When
:12:38. > :12:41.something works in diplomacy, you don't really understand what the
:12:42. > :12:45.consequences could have been. I think we've got complacent. The new
:12:46. > :12:51.president is taking advantage of that. It is a terrible tragedy that
:12:52. > :12:56.so many in the West take for granted the successful leadership and
:12:57. > :13:04.institutions we have built. You could argue, as James Rubin has
:13:05. > :13:08.argued in some articles, that... Will Mr Trump's America be more
:13:09. > :13:16.involved in the world than the Obama won? Or will it continue the process
:13:17. > :13:22.with running shoes on that began with Mr Obama? President Obama
:13:23. > :13:28.stepped back from American leadership. He withdrew from the
:13:29. > :13:32.world. He had a horrendous eight years in office, and American powers
:13:33. > :13:37.have diminished everywhere in the world, not just in Europe. That
:13:38. > :13:42.power will reassert. The focus will be on America first, but there are
:13:43. > :13:48.foreign interests around the world... How does it reassert itself
:13:49. > :13:52.around the world? I think the institutions will be recreated. Some
:13:53. > :13:58.may be taken down. There could be some new ones. I think Nato itself,
:13:59. > :14:02.and certainly the Defence Secretary will have discussions with Donald
:14:03. > :14:06.Trump about how Nato can be reshaped, and maybe there will be
:14:07. > :14:11.more burden sharing. That is an important thing for him. You are
:14:12. > :14:15.tipped to be the US ambassador to Brussels, to the EU, and we are
:14:16. > :14:20.still waiting to hear if that will happen. Is it true to say that Mr
:14:21. > :14:30.Trump does not believe in EU integration? I think you made that
:14:31. > :14:38.clear in the speech. He talked about supranational. He does not believe
:14:39. > :14:42.in those kinds of organisations. He is investing himself in bilateral
:14:43. > :14:47.relationships, the first of which will be with the UK. So we have a
:14:48. > :14:53.president who does not believe in EU integration and has been highly
:14:54. > :14:58.critical of Nato. Do the people he has appointed to defend, Secretary
:14:59. > :15:02.of State, national security, do you think that will temper this
:15:03. > :15:10.anti-NATO wretched? Will he come round to a more pro-NATO situation?
:15:11. > :15:15.I think those of us who care about America's situation in the world
:15:16. > :15:20.will come in to miss President Obama a lot. I think the Secretary of
:15:21. > :15:25.State and the faculty of defence will limit the damage and will urge
:15:26. > :15:30.him not to take formal steps to unravel this most powerful and most
:15:31. > :15:36.successful alliance in history, the Nato alliance. But the damage is
:15:37. > :15:41.already being done. When you are the leader of the West, leadership means
:15:42. > :15:47.you are persuading, encouraging, bolstering your leadership and these
:15:48. > :15:51.institutions by the way you speak. Millions, if not hundreds of
:15:52. > :15:53.millions of people, have now heard the US say that what they care about
:15:54. > :16:03.is within their borders. What do you say to that? It is such
:16:04. > :16:12.an overstatement. The point is that Donald Trump is in a Jacksonian
:16:13. > :16:15.tradition of national populism. He is appealing to the people first.
:16:16. > :16:21.The other day, I was sitting below this page during the address, and he
:16:22. > :16:25.said, everyone sitting behind me as part of the problem. Everyone in
:16:26. > :16:28.front of me, the crowd and the crowd on television, is part of the
:16:29. > :16:33.solution, so we are giving the Government back to the people. That
:16:34. > :16:36.emphasis is going to change American life, including American
:16:37. > :16:45.International relations. It doesn't moving the leak back -- it doesn't
:16:46. > :16:50.mean we are moving out of Nato, it simply means we will put our
:16:51. > :16:53.national interests first. There were echoes of Andrew Jackson's
:16:54. > :16:59.inauguration address of 1820. That night, the Jacksonians trashed the
:17:00. > :17:02.White House, but Mr Trump's people didn't do that, so there is a
:17:03. > :17:08.difference there. He also said something else in the address - that
:17:09. > :17:15.protectionism would lead to prosperity. I would suggest there is
:17:16. > :17:21.no evidence for that in the post-war world. He talked about protecting
:17:22. > :17:23.the American worker, American jobs, the American economy. I actually
:17:24. > :17:31.think that Donald Trump will not turn out to be a protectionist. If
:17:32. > :17:37.you read the heart of the deal... This is referring to two Republican
:17:38. > :17:46.senators who introduce massive tariffs in the Hoover
:17:47. > :17:50.administration. Exactly. If you read The Art Of The Deal, you will see
:17:51. > :17:54.how Donald Trump deals with individuals and countries. There is
:17:55. > :18:00.a lot of bluster, positioning, and I think you already see this in
:18:01. > :18:04.bringing jobs by the United States. Things are going to change. Let's
:18:05. > :18:11.also deal with this proposition. China is the biggest loser of this
:18:12. > :18:18.election result. Let me say this: The first time in American history
:18:19. > :18:26.and American president has set forth his view of the world, and it is a
:18:27. > :18:30.mercantile view of the world, who makes more money, who gets more
:18:31. > :18:35.trade, it doesn't look at the shared values, leadership and defends the
:18:36. > :18:38.world needs. The art of the deal has no application to America's
:18:39. > :18:43.leadership of the world, that's what we're learning. You can be a great
:18:44. > :18:47.businessman and make great real estate deals - whether he did not is
:18:48. > :18:52.debatable - but it has nothing to do with inspiring shared values from
:18:53. > :18:56.the West. You saying China may lose, because he may pressure them to
:18:57. > :19:03.reduce their trade deficit with the US. They may or may not. We may both
:19:04. > :19:06.lose. Right now, his Secretary of State has said, and I think he will
:19:07. > :19:11.walk this back when he is brief, that they will prevent the Chinese
:19:12. > :19:15.from entering these islands in the South China Sea. If they were to do
:19:16. > :19:19.that, it would be a blockade, and there would be a shooting war
:19:20. > :19:24.between the United States and China, so US - China relations are the most
:19:25. > :19:27.important bilateral relationship of the United States, and they don't
:19:28. > :19:32.lend themselves to the bluff and bluster that may have worked when
:19:33. > :19:37.you are trying to get a big building on second Ave in Manhattan. Is China
:19:38. > :19:53.the biggest loser? I think the Chinese have a lot to lose. Gigi and
:19:54. > :19:59.Ping was in Davos this week -- Xi Jin Ping was in Davos.
:20:00. > :20:05.Is Germany the second biggest loser in the sense that I understand he
:20:06. > :20:13.hasn't agreed time to see Angela Merkel yet, also that those close to
:20:14. > :20:16.him believe that Germany is guilty of currency manipulation by adopting
:20:17. > :20:20.a weak your row instead of the strong Deutschmark, and that that is
:20:21. > :20:26.why they are running a huge balance of payments surplus with the United
:20:27. > :20:31.States. American - German relations may not be great. There is a point
:20:32. > :20:35.of view throughout Europe. You only have to talk to the southern
:20:36. > :20:39.Europeans about this question. It seems like the euro has been aligned
:20:40. > :20:45.to benefit Germany. Joe Stiglitz, the famous left of centre Democrat
:20:46. > :20:52.economist, made the same case in a recent book. In this case, I think
:20:53. > :20:56.Germany will be put under the spotlight. Angela Merkel has shown
:20:57. > :21:01.herself to be the most respected and the most successful leader in
:21:02. > :21:06.Europe. We who care about the West, who care about the shared values of
:21:07. > :21:11.the West, should pray and hope that she is re-elected. This isn't about
:21:12. > :21:16.dollars and cents. We're living in a time whether Russian leader has
:21:17. > :21:22.another country in Europe and for some inexplicable reason, the
:21:23. > :21:24.American president, who can use his insult diplomacy on everyone,
:21:25. > :21:31.including Mrs Merkel, the only person he can't seem to find
:21:32. > :21:34.anything to criticise about is Mr Putin. There are things more
:21:35. > :21:39.important than the actual details of your currency. There are things like
:21:40. > :21:42.preventing another war in Europe, preventing a war between the Chinese
:21:43. > :21:49.and the US. You talk about the Trident missile all morning, nuclear
:21:50. > :21:54.deterrence is extremely important. It doesn't lend itself to the bluff
:21:55. > :21:57.and bluster of a real estate deal. I understand all that, but the fact we
:21:58. > :22:01.are even talking about these things shows the new world we are moving
:22:02. > :22:06.into. I'd like to get you both to react to this. This is a man that
:22:07. > :22:14.ended the Bush Dynasty, a man that beat the Clinton machine. In his
:22:15. > :22:16.inauguration, not only did he not reach out to the Democrats, he
:22:17. > :22:23.didn't even mention the Republicans. These are changed days for us. They
:22:24. > :22:26.are, and change can be good or disastrous. I'm worried that it's
:22:27. > :22:33.easy in the world of diplomacy and in them -- for the leadership of the
:22:34. > :22:37.United States to break relationships and ruin alliances. These are things
:22:38. > :22:44.that were carefully nurtured. George Schultz, the American Secretary of
:22:45. > :22:48.State under Reagan talked about gardening, the slow, careful
:22:49. > :22:53.creation of a place with bilateral relationships that were blossoming
:22:54. > :22:56.and flowering multilateral relationships that take decades to
:22:57. > :23:02.create, and he will throw them away in a matter of days. The final
:23:03. > :23:06.word... I work for George Schultz. He was a Marine who stood up
:23:07. > :23:10.America, defended America, who would be in favour of many of the things
:23:11. > :23:16.that Donald Trump and the tramp Administration... Give him a call.
:23:17. > :23:20.His top aide macs that I've spoken to are appalled by Mr Trump's
:23:21. > :23:28.abdication of leadership. He is going to our radically -- he's going
:23:29. > :23:33.to eradicate extremist Islam from the face of the year. Is that
:23:34. > :23:36.realistic? I know people in the national security realm have worked
:23:37. > :23:43.on a plan. They say they will have such a plan in some detail within 90
:23:44. > :23:48.days. Lets hope they succeed. We have run out of time. As a issues.
:23:49. > :23:52.Thank you, both. -- fascinating issues.
:23:53. > :23:55.So Theresa May promised a big speech on Brexit, and this week -
:23:56. > :23:57.perhaps against expectation - she delivered, trying to answer
:23:58. > :24:00.claims that the government didn't have a plan with an explicit
:24:01. > :24:03.wish-list of what she hopes to achieve in negotiations with the EU.
:24:04. > :24:05.To her allies it was ambitious, bold, optimistic -
:24:06. > :24:07.to her opponents it was full of contradictions
:24:08. > :24:11.Here's Adam again, with a reminder of the speech and how
:24:12. > :24:16.There are speeches, and there are speeches.
:24:17. > :24:19.Like Theresa May's 12 principles for a Brexit deal leading
:24:20. > :24:22.to the UK fully out of the EU but still friendly in terms
:24:23. > :24:26.This agreement should allow for the freest possible trade
:24:27. > :24:29.in goods and services between Britain and the EU's member states.
:24:30. > :24:34.It should give British companies the maximum
:24:35. > :24:37.operate within European markets and let European businesses do
:24:38. > :24:45.She also said no deal would be better than the wrong deal,
:24:46. > :25:01.We want to test what people think about what she's just said.
:25:02. > :25:03.Do we have any of our future negotiating
:25:04. > :25:08.As the European Parliament voted for its new
:25:09. > :25:16.president, its chief negotiator sounded off.
:25:17. > :25:18.Saying, OK, if our European counterparts don't accept
:25:19. > :25:21.it, we're going to make from Britain a sort
:25:22. > :25:24.of free zone or tax haven, I
:25:25. > :25:30.The Prime Minister of Malta, the country that's assumed the EU's
:25:31. > :25:33.rotating presidency, spoke in sorrow and a bit of anger.
:25:34. > :25:37.We want a fair deal for the United Kingdom, but
:25:38. > :25:47.that deal necessarily needs to be inferior to membership.
:25:48. > :25:50.Next, let's hear from some enthusiastic
:25:51. > :25:55.leavers, like, I don't know, the Daily Mail?
:25:56. > :25:58.The paper lapped it up with this adoring front page.
:25:59. > :26:02.For Brexiteers, it was all manna from heaven.
:26:03. > :26:05.I think today means we are a big step closer to becoming
:26:06. > :26:07.an independent country again, with control of our own laws,
:26:08. > :26:14.I was chuckling at some of it, to be honest, because
:26:15. > :26:18.There were various phrases there which I've used myself again and
:26:19. > :26:22.Do we have any of those so-called Remoaners?
:26:23. > :26:24.There will, at the end of this deal process,
:26:25. > :26:28.so politicians get to vote on the stitch-up, but
:26:29. > :26:31.We take the view as Liberal Democrats that
:26:32. > :26:33.if this process started with democracy last June,
:26:34. > :26:37.We trusted the people with departure, we must trust them
:26:38. > :26:44.Do we have anyone from Labour, or are you all
:26:45. > :26:46.watching it in a small room somewhere?
:26:47. > :26:53.Throughout the speech, there seemed to be an implied threat that
:26:54. > :26:56.somewhere along the line, if all her optimism of a deal
:26:57. > :26:58.with the European Union didn't work, we would move
:26:59. > :27:00.into a low-tax, corporate taxation, bargain-basement economy on the
:27:01. > :27:04.I think she needs to be a bit clearer about what
:27:05. > :27:11.The Labour leader suggested he'd tell
:27:12. > :27:14.his MPs to vote in favour of starting a Brexit process if
:27:15. > :27:16.Parliament was given the choice, sparking a mini pre-revolt among
:27:17. > :27:22.Finally, do we have anyone from big business here?
:27:23. > :27:31.Of course, your all in Davos at the World Economic
:27:32. > :27:41.Clarity, first of all, really codified what many of us have been
:27:42. > :27:43.anticipating since the referendum result,
:27:44. > :27:44.particularly around the
:27:45. > :27:48.I think what we've also seen today is the Government's
:27:49. > :27:51.willingness to put a bit of edge into the negotiating dynamic, and I
:27:52. > :27:56.Trade negotiations are negotiations, and you have to lay out, and you
:27:57. > :27:58.have to be pretty tough to get what you want.
:27:59. > :28:00.Although some business people on the slopes speculated
:28:01. > :28:03.about moving some of their operations out of Brexit Britain.
:28:04. > :28:21.We saw there the instant reaction of Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn,
:28:22. > :28:24.but how will the party respond to the challenge posed by Brexit
:28:25. > :28:27.Well, I'm joined now by the Shadow Home Secretary, Diane Abbott.
:28:28. > :28:36.People know that Ukip and the Tories are for Brexit. The Lib Dems are
:28:37. > :28:41.four remain. What is Labour for? For respecting the result of the
:28:42. > :28:46.referendum. It was a 72% turnout, very high for an election of that
:28:47. > :28:49.nature, and we believe you have to respect that result. You couldn't
:28:50. > :28:53.have a situation where people like Tim Farron are saying to people,
:28:54. > :28:56.millions of people, sorry, you got it wrong, we in London no better.
:28:57. > :29:04.However, how the Tories go forward from here has to be subject to
:29:05. > :29:09.parliamentary scrutiny. Is it Shadow Cabinet policy to vote for the
:29:10. > :29:13.triggering of Article 50? Our policy is not to block Article 50. That is
:29:14. > :29:20.what the leader was saying this morning. So are you for it? Our
:29:21. > :29:25.policy is not to block it. You are talking about voting for it. We
:29:26. > :29:30.don't know what the Supreme Court is going to say, and we don't know what
:29:31. > :29:33.legislation Government will bring forward, and we don't know what
:29:34. > :29:40.amendment we will move, but we're clear that we will not vote to block
:29:41. > :29:48.it. OK, so you won't bow to stop it, but you could abstain? No, what we
:29:49. > :29:52.will do... Either you vote for or against all you abstain. There are
:29:53. > :29:55.too many unanswered questions. For instance, the position of EU
:29:56. > :30:00.migrants working and living in this country. You may not get the answer
:30:01. > :30:04.to that before Article 50 comes before the Commons, so what would
:30:05. > :30:09.you do then? We are giving to amend it. We can only tell you exactly how
:30:10. > :30:13.we will amend it when we understand what sort of legislation the
:30:14. > :30:16.Government is putting forward, and in the course of moving those
:30:17. > :30:20.amendments, we will ask the questions that the people of Britain
:30:21. > :30:26.whether they voted to leave remain want answered.
:30:27. > :30:34.When you come to a collective view, will there be a three line whip? I
:30:35. > :30:39.can't tell you, because we have not seen the government 's legislation.
:30:40. > :30:45.But when you see it, you will come to a collective view. Many regard
:30:46. > :30:50.this as extremely important. Will there be a three line whip on
:30:51. > :30:56.Labour's collective view? Because it is important, we shouldn't get ahead
:30:57. > :31:00.of ourselves. When we see what the Supreme Court says, and crucially,
:31:01. > :31:04.when we see what the government position is, you will hear what the
:31:05. > :31:11.whipping is. Will shadow ministers be able to defy any three line whip
:31:12. > :31:16.on this? That is not normally the case. But they did on an early vote
:31:17. > :31:22.that the government introduced on Article 50. Those who voted against
:31:23. > :31:26.it are still there. In the Blair years, you certainly couldn't defy a
:31:27. > :31:33.three line whip. We will see what happens going forward. I remember
:31:34. > :31:36.when the Tories were hopelessly divided over the EU. All these
:31:37. > :31:43.Maastricht votes and an list arguments. Now it is Labour. Just
:31:44. > :31:55.another symptom of Mr Corbyn's poor leadership. Not at all. Two thirds
:31:56. > :32:00.voted to leave, a third to remain. We are seeking to bring the country
:32:01. > :32:06.and the party together. We will do that by pointing out how disastrous
:32:07. > :32:15.a Tory Brexit would be. Meanwhile, around 80 Labour MPs will defy a
:32:16. > :32:20.three line whip. It's too early to say that. Will you publish what you
:32:21. > :32:25.believe the negotiating goal should be? We are clear on it. We think
:32:26. > :32:31.that the economy, jobs and living standards should be the priority.
:32:32. > :32:36.What Theresa May is saying is that holding her party together is her
:32:37. > :32:43.priority. She is putting party above country. Does Labour think we should
:32:44. > :32:47.remain members of the single market? Ideally, in terms of jobs and the
:32:48. > :32:52.economy, of course. Ritt -ish business thinks that as well. Is
:32:53. > :32:57.Labour policy that we should remain a member of the single market?
:32:58. > :33:01.Labour leaves that jobs and the economy comes first, and if they
:33:02. > :33:08.come first, you would want to remain part of the single market. But to
:33:09. > :33:16.remain a member? Jobs and the economy comes first, and to do that,
:33:17. > :33:20.ideally, guess. So with that, comes free movement of people, the
:33:21. > :33:26.jurisdiction of the European, and a multi-million never shipped thief.
:33:27. > :33:32.Is Labour prepared to pay that? Money is neither here nor there.
:33:33. > :33:41.Because the Tories will be asked to pay a lot of money... The EU has
:33:42. > :33:48.made it clear that you cannot have... I am asking for Labour's
:33:49. > :33:53.position. Our position is rooted in the reality, and the reality is that
:33:54. > :33:57.you cannot have the benefits of the member of the European Union,
:33:58. > :34:00.including being a member of the single market, without
:34:01. > :34:04.responsibility, including free movement of people. Free movement,
:34:05. > :34:13.is remaining under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. Is
:34:14. > :34:18.that the Labour position? You've said that Labour wants to remain a
:34:19. > :34:22.member of the single market. That is the price tag that comes with it.
:34:23. > :34:28.Does Labour agree with paying that price tag? We are not pre-empting
:34:29. > :34:33.negotiation. Our goals are protect jobs and the British economy. Is it
:34:34. > :34:43.Labour's position that we remain a member of the customs union? Well,
:34:44. > :34:52.if we don't, I don't see how Theresa May can keep our promises and has
:34:53. > :35:01.unfettered access... You said Labour's position was clear. It is!
:35:02. > :35:07.It is clear that Theresa May... I am not asking about Theresa May. Is it
:35:08. > :35:13.Labour's position to remain a member of the customs union? It is Labour's
:35:14. > :35:17.position to do what is right for British industry. Depending on how
:35:18. > :35:22.the negotiations go, it may prove that coming out of the customs
:35:23. > :35:28.union, as Theresa May has indicated she wants to do, could prove
:35:29. > :35:33.catastrophic, and could actually destroy some of her promises. You do
:35:34. > :35:40.accept that if we are member of the customs union, we cannot do our own
:35:41. > :35:46.free trade deals? What free trade deals are you talking about? The
:35:47. > :35:51.ones that Labour might want to do in the future. First, we have to
:35:52. > :35:56.protect British jobs and British industries. If you are talking about
:35:57. > :36:01.free trade deals with Donald Trump, the danger is that Theresa May will
:36:02. > :36:08.get drawn into a free-trade deal with America that will open up the
:36:09. > :36:13.NHS to American corporate... The cards are in Theresa May's hands. If
:36:14. > :36:17.she takes us out of the single market, if she takes us out of the
:36:18. > :36:23.customs union, we will have to deal with that. How big a crisis for
:36:24. > :36:28.Jeremy Corbyn will be if Labour loses both by-elections in February.
:36:29. > :36:37.I don't believe we will lose both. But if he did? I am not anticipating
:36:38. > :36:42.that. Is Labour lost two seats in a midterm of a Tory government, would
:36:43. > :36:46.that be business as usual? I'm not prepared to see us lose those seats,
:36:47. > :36:49.so I will not talk about something that will not happen. Thank you.
:36:50. > :36:50.You're watching the Sunday Politics.
:36:51. > :36:53.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:36:54. > :36:56.Coming up here in 20 minutes, The Week Ahead,
:36:57. > :36:58.when we'll be talking to Business Minister Margot James
:36:59. > :37:01.about the government's new industrial strategy and that
:37:02. > :37:04.crucial Supreme Court ruling on Brexit.
:37:05. > :37:23.My name is Peter Henley. Politics where you are.
:37:24. > :37:25.On today's show, fairer funding for schools.
:37:26. > :37:29.The government's new funding formula was meant to end the postcode
:37:30. > :37:32.lottery of how much cash each school gets but in Oxfordshire more than
:37:33. > :37:37.First let's meet the two victims, sorry, politicians who will be
:37:38. > :37:41.Julia Reid is UKIP MEP for the Southwest of England.
:37:42. > :37:46.Keith House is the Lib Dem leader of the council.
:37:47. > :37:49.Local government under a huge amount of financial pressure and we see
:37:50. > :37:54.A referendum to increase their council tax by 15%.
:37:55. > :38:01.When I first heard the story I thought someone was trying
:38:02. > :38:05.The idea of a Conservative council putting up council tax by 10 times
:38:06. > :38:12.Surrey is in a dreadful situation, worse than many councils
:38:13. > :38:19.It's reckless because the Chancellor of the electorate decided to put
:38:20. > :38:24.It's a cry for help I think which could be a great help
:38:25. > :38:26.for all of local government because local government has
:38:27. > :38:33.been treated very badly by government over recent years.
:38:34. > :38:35.Promises of help have never really come.
:38:36. > :38:38.All we do is we see money moved around rather than new money come
:38:39. > :38:42.to us and we got a big big problem particularly with adult social care
:38:43. > :38:44.It'll only be solved by national funding
:38:45. > :38:48.which is what the Liberal Democrats have been saying.
:38:49. > :38:51.Right, although local solutions is what national
:38:52. > :38:57.Julia, in general UKIP like referendums.
:38:58. > :38:59.This one, a million pounds they think it might cost.
:39:00. > :39:06.We think this is just being done for political reasons.
:39:07. > :39:09.I pretty much agree with what Keith said.
:39:10. > :39:11.You don't think people should have 15% increase even someone
:39:12. > :39:16.I think what will happen is, as you suggested,
:39:17. > :39:21.I'm a town councillor in the south-west where the shire
:39:22. > :39:25.counties in particular around my area have had
:39:26. > :39:35.We are in a position, that we are going to have to put
:39:36. > :39:39.up our precept and it's very unpopular because people
:39:40. > :39:43.The majority of people are struggling.
:39:44. > :39:46.It's the idea everyone in Surrey is rich.
:39:47. > :39:49.There is lots of people on average incomes struggling in Surrey just
:39:50. > :39:56.But the government keep taking money away, which I think is the problem.
:39:57. > :39:59.But do people understand, when there is a local government
:40:00. > :40:02.thing we can't afford to provide these services because they're
:40:03. > :40:04.receiving less money from national government?
:40:05. > :40:12.People have lost libraries and various other things.
:40:13. > :40:17.Our library most of the time it's empty and we have to trust people
:40:18. > :40:22.to go in and borrow books when there's nobody there.
:40:23. > :40:27.All councils I think are finding real difficulty.
:40:28. > :40:29.It's still another four months until this year's local
:40:30. > :40:31.government elections, but there's already
:40:32. > :40:35.a new administration in power at the Isle of Wight Council.
:40:36. > :40:37.That's because on Monday the leader, the deputy leader and another
:40:38. > :40:42.councillor from the executive group all of them independents, resigned.
:40:43. > :40:44.They said some councillors were too concerned with
:40:45. > :40:51.It comes after a fairly stormy few years for the island independents.
:40:52. > :40:57.They've had defections and resignations, but they got there.
:40:58. > :41:00.Joining me now from the island is Jonathan Bacon who, until Monday,
:41:01. > :41:06.I suppose I should say congratulations for getting as far
:41:07. > :41:09.as you did because people didn't think the independent group
:41:10. > :41:14.would stay together but why throw in the towel at the final furlong?
:41:15. > :41:17.I think the situation was getting intolerable.
:41:18. > :41:21.At the moment, national government is imposing death by 1,000 cuts
:41:22. > :41:24.on local government and really it's nigh on impossible to do anything
:41:25. > :41:29.and what you need in that situation is the ability to stand firm
:41:30. > :41:33.and united against government but, unfortunately, in our council,
:41:34. > :41:37.we had too money people who were more interested
:41:38. > :41:39.in politicking and bickering rather than working together.
:41:40. > :41:46.They just made the situation intolerable.
:41:47. > :41:51.And we saw it on Wednesday night in the full council meeting.
:41:52. > :41:54.I know quite a lot of people who followed my decision who never
:41:55. > :41:57.normally watch a full council meeting did so, and were actually
:41:58. > :42:04.Two hours were spent arguing about whether to have a new leader,
:42:05. > :42:07.whether to appoint a certain committee chairman, leaving only one
:42:08. > :42:12.When you've got the sort of pressures and cuts being imposed
:42:13. > :42:17.by central government, to behave in that way is farcical.
:42:18. > :42:23.It made my situation impossible and intolerable.
:42:24. > :42:25.How had you tried to stop that happening?
:42:26. > :42:28.You wanted to put people before politics.
:42:29. > :42:39.I think we just kept doing as much as we could but it's the other
:42:40. > :42:42.people who did not want to behave in that way who did not
:42:43. > :42:48.Well, I think that's probably a good thing
:42:49. > :42:52.because if they are going to stop trying to do the right thing,
:42:53. > :42:55.trying to achieve anything, then they should take
:42:56. > :42:58.the responsibility for what is happening.
:42:59. > :43:02.So there's a Conservative group now and that surely is worse as far
:43:03. > :43:07.Aren't you just playing games, putting them in just
:43:08. > :43:11.before the election hoping they will be unpopular?
:43:12. > :43:14.I'm sure some people will think that, but I think it's about time
:43:15. > :43:17.those people who have been denying any responsibility for the situation
:43:18. > :43:20.when it's their government who are creating the problems should
:43:21. > :43:26.actually stand up and we can see are they going to actually now work
:43:27. > :43:29.for the people of the Isle of Wight and challenge what government
:43:30. > :43:33.is doing rather than just rolling over and accepting the situation
:43:34. > :43:39.We've had an MP who, over the past few months,
:43:40. > :43:41.has said the island should cut its cloth.
:43:42. > :43:44.I was very disturbed to see the new council leader Dave Stewart
:43:45. > :43:47.said we have to live within our means.
:43:48. > :43:50.But what's got to be recognised and worked against is the fact that
:43:51. > :43:53.you can't do that if you don't have sufficient means.
:43:54. > :43:57.I think the situation in Surrey shows quite starkly that
:43:58. > :44:00.that's the situation across local government.
:44:01. > :44:03.We felt it particular harshly on the Isle of Wight
:44:04. > :44:07.and particularly harshly when you've got some councillors who simply
:44:08. > :44:10.won't accept that and decide to play politics rather than deal
:44:11. > :44:16.Two bits of politics business that was happening when you left,
:44:17. > :44:23.The High Court action over school holidays for John Platt.
:44:24. > :44:26.Do you think that Isle of Wight Council will now abandon that?
:44:27. > :44:28.And the devolution proposals together with Southampton
:44:29. > :44:33.Portsmouth, is there any way forward there?
:44:34. > :44:36.I can take both of those if you like.
:44:37. > :44:40.In terms of the school attendance issue, what we are dealing
:44:41. > :44:42.with there is simply a legal definition of what
:44:43. > :44:48.It's been played out as being about whether someone
:44:49. > :44:50.should go on holiday or not, when it's not.
:44:51. > :44:53.The Department of Education have taken over the case now
:44:54. > :44:55.because they are concerned at the lack of clarity in the law
:44:56. > :45:00.about when can school attendance provisions come into force.
:45:01. > :45:04.Without doubt, ask any educational professional,
:45:05. > :45:09.it's very difficult to organise the classroom system and it's very
:45:10. > :45:12.difficult for schools to operate when they don't know if they have
:45:13. > :45:15.any power over the children turning up to school or not.
:45:16. > :45:19.You think the new administration won't pursue this then?
:45:20. > :45:22.I think they need to have a conversation with the Department
:45:23. > :45:25.of Education because the only reason it's got to the stage it's
:45:26. > :45:27.at is because the Department of Education have said
:45:28. > :45:31.that they want that case to be taken to the Supreme Court.
:45:32. > :45:34.We recognise the cost issues as an administration last year
:45:35. > :45:37.and weren't going to take it any further but the Department
:45:38. > :45:39.of Education said, no, we'll pick up the tab.
:45:40. > :45:41.We think it's important, we want to take it forward
:45:42. > :45:45.and they are now party to the case so I think it's going to be
:45:46. > :45:47.a matter of the Conservative administration talking
:45:48. > :45:53.Remember, of course, as a result of what was done
:45:54. > :45:57.by the previous Conservative administration, the Isle
:45:58. > :46:00.of Wight Council is still under a direction from the ministry
:46:01. > :46:05.to improve educational standards and attendance as part of that.
:46:06. > :46:15.We have had a lot of kickbacks and it was depressing last November
:46:16. > :46:18.to visit the Secretary of State and be told we will put
:46:19. > :46:22.you in the in-tray, but not taking you any further for now.
:46:23. > :46:25.An awful lot of work had been done about that.
:46:26. > :46:28.It will be interesting again to see what the new administration
:46:29. > :46:31.in the Isle of Wight do about that, because they have been
:46:32. > :46:39.Indeed, last September-October, there were trying to block
:46:40. > :46:42.us being able to make proposal to the Secretary of State just
:46:43. > :46:48.Are they going to contest government policy that way?
:46:49. > :46:51.It will be interesting to see because if they do that,
:46:52. > :46:54.hopefully that would indicate they might contest government policy
:46:55. > :46:59.Again, that's something we need to see what's going to happen.
:47:00. > :47:03.Jonathan Bacon, thanks very much for joining us.
:47:04. > :47:05.Just quickly, do you think devolution is dead?
:47:06. > :47:08.We are very much part of the deal, South Hampshire
:47:09. > :47:15.It's the financial answer to the Isle of Wight, devolution,
:47:16. > :47:18.because it's the only way of solving the funding crisis across
:47:19. > :47:20.Southampton and the island and the rest of Hampshire too.
:47:21. > :47:22.It's about the ability to borrow long-term against business rates,
:47:23. > :47:25.deal with the infrastructure problem we have got and take proper control
:47:26. > :47:29.of our own services, so I very much hope devolution isn't dead.
:47:30. > :47:31.It is the best answer for the island, the best
:47:32. > :47:35.There is a UKIP councillor on the island and one
:47:36. > :47:41.Do think UKIP in general would support more devolution?
:47:42. > :47:46.Probably but it would depend on the circumstances I think.
:47:47. > :47:49.It does look like it's going away, no new money coming
:47:50. > :47:54.This is the answer to the no money point because devolution gives local
:47:55. > :47:56.authorities collectively the power to sort their own things out
:47:57. > :48:04.And work in a collaborative way to get investment into the patch.
:48:05. > :48:07.It gets the government off the hook and why government is so keen
:48:08. > :48:09.on devolution but requires local authorities to together
:48:10. > :48:13.so the Isle of Wight, we need them on board.
:48:14. > :48:15.The captain has jumped ship, but thank you anyway,
:48:16. > :48:20.Schools in many areas of our region had been complaining for years
:48:21. > :48:23.that the funding formula the government uses to calculate how
:48:24. > :48:27.much cash they get has been unfairly weighted against them.
:48:28. > :48:29.In an effort to address that, the government has come up
:48:30. > :48:39.with a new formala but does it get any better marks than the old one?
:48:40. > :48:42.Our Oxfordshire reporter Beth and Phillips has been finding out
:48:43. > :48:44.Our Oxfordshire reporter Bethan Phillips has been finding out
:48:45. > :48:46.why schools in some parts of the South have been feeling
:48:47. > :48:56.It's the ultimate political football.
:48:57. > :49:01.And just like the beautiful game, it's all about the money.
:49:02. > :49:03.Oxfordshire schools have traditionally been in the lower half
:49:04. > :49:05.of the league when it comes to school funding.
:49:06. > :49:09.Last year, the government promised to tackle unfairness in the system.
:49:10. > :49:12.Hopes were raised that schools here would be in for a big win,
:49:13. > :49:15.but actually, nearly half of schools are going to lose money
:49:16. > :49:22.133 schools will get more funding but overall,
:49:23. > :49:25.funding is only going by 0.8% for Oxfordshire schools,
:49:26. > :49:35.Calls for fairer funding are nothing new.
:49:36. > :49:37.Schools in West Sussex even lobbied the Prime Minister about it,
:49:38. > :49:40.saying they might have to cut back on the school week.
:49:41. > :49:44.MPs and teachers across the South have known for a long time
:49:45. > :49:47.that their schools were losing out to London.
:49:48. > :49:50.Our schools in Poole and Dorset were amongst the worst funded
:49:51. > :49:56.Dorset was 11th worst and there was no rhyme or reason for it.
:49:57. > :49:58.If there had been an explanation, because Dorset is thought
:49:59. > :50:01.to be a wealthier area, I could have accepted it.
:50:02. > :50:04.But when the new formula was revealed in Oxfordshire,
:50:05. > :50:13.We are facing an unsustainable cut to our budgets, and I'm
:50:14. > :50:19.And for struggling school smaller schools
:50:20. > :50:26.Potentially, yes, it means closures, but I just don't see how that
:50:27. > :50:31.And I think there will be a huge political backlash before
:50:32. > :50:40.At this primary School in Henley, it will lose ?11,000 over two years.
:50:41. > :50:45.Head teacher Jacky Steele said it could mean losing a member of staff.
:50:46. > :50:49.If we are constantly stretched, and constantly having
:50:50. > :50:52.to give something up, which essentially is what's
:50:53. > :50:55.happening with lack of funding and resources, then it's going to be
:50:56. > :50:59.even harder to achieve the results and the standards
:51:00. > :51:05.The bar is being raised ever higher and we are stretching further.
:51:06. > :51:09.That is a really big ask of school leaders.
:51:10. > :51:11.At the other end of the funding league table is Windmill
:51:12. > :51:17.It is getting a 2.8% boost under the new formula.
:51:18. > :51:19.But headteacher Lynn Knapp says that money will only
:51:20. > :51:25.I think it's about maintaining our staff.
:51:26. > :51:27.Where we were looking to going into deficit,
:51:28. > :51:29.we can't employ an extra staff member, maybe we'll have
:51:30. > :51:33.to make redundancies, so by having a standstill figure
:51:34. > :51:37.or an increase we are just protecting the staff we've got.
:51:38. > :51:42.We're certainly not looking at increasing our staffing level.
:51:43. > :51:45.While some Oxfordshire schools feel left on the subs
:51:46. > :51:48.bench by the new formula, schools in Dorset have won
:51:49. > :51:55.MP Michael Tomlinson says it's good news.
:51:56. > :51:58.In my constituency alone, mid Dorset North Poole,
:51:59. > :52:01.it's an increased funding overall of ?1 million for our schools,
:52:02. > :52:06.I used to be a school governor myself.
:52:07. > :52:08.I know how carefully governors and schools look at the individual
:52:09. > :52:10.budgets and this will make a significant difference
:52:11. > :52:16.The Department for Education insists the new formula will mean an end
:52:17. > :52:20.to the postcode lottery in school funding, but in Oxfordshire,
:52:21. > :52:28.fears remain that for some schools losing out, it could be game over.
:52:29. > :52:32.Julia, the system had been creaking, hadn't it?
:52:33. > :52:37.The data was hugely old for these different schools and schools
:52:38. > :52:39.with very similar catchments in areas were getting hugely
:52:40. > :52:46.But there will always have to be winners and losers.
:52:47. > :52:47.It is a difficult decision, isn't it?
:52:48. > :52:53.We've heard about Dorset, but the majority of our counties
:52:54. > :52:58.in I think rural areas, historically, for whatever reason,
:52:59. > :53:02.they've ended up with a lot less money than urban areas.
:53:03. > :53:05.I'm not suggesting that to take money away from schools
:53:06. > :53:09.is a good thing, we've heard, but obviously something had to be
:53:10. > :53:11.done about rural areas because they weren't getting
:53:12. > :53:19.What would UKIP's solution have been, put more money into it?
:53:20. > :53:24.Hopefully, when we've left the European Union and we don't
:53:25. > :53:38.At the moment, 350 million is going to the NHS.
:53:39. > :53:46.Our figure is we would save between ?200-?220 million a week.
:53:47. > :53:52.And some of that money would be able to go on issues such as education.
:53:53. > :53:57.Getting rid of extra care at home, some will go on schools.
:53:58. > :53:59.The aid budget, you still want to reduce that?
:54:00. > :54:05.Given leaving the EU is going to make as poor as a country,
:54:06. > :54:09.there's going to be less money to go to schools and the health service.
:54:10. > :54:11.The problem with education funding is we've had nationalised
:54:12. > :54:18.Every decision, every bit of school funding have been taken by minister
:54:19. > :54:22.The real answer is proper devolution.
:54:23. > :54:23.School funding, alongside health funding, handed back
:54:24. > :54:25.to local communities through their local
:54:26. > :54:32.It's the only way to solve these issues so local people get
:54:33. > :54:36.the balance between affluent and less affluent.
:54:37. > :54:40.This could be a whole new line for UKIP, surely?
:54:41. > :54:45.Pull us out of national government as well as out of Europe.
:54:46. > :54:49.Why isn't Paul Nuttall going more strongly for this?
:54:50. > :54:57.Is it because he has different principles to Nigel Farage?
:54:58. > :54:59.I think on the main issues Nigel and Paul are straight
:55:00. > :55:08.down the line the same which is UKIP principles,...
:55:09. > :55:10.There will be more money when we leave Europe
:55:11. > :55:18.I don't see UKIP's role in local government in terms of deciding
:55:19. > :55:20.which money goes to particular project and how loudly
:55:21. > :55:26.at government to say this isn't working.
:55:27. > :55:28.Actually, where we are on councils in sufficient numbers,
:55:29. > :55:30.we've managed to make quite a good saving.
:55:31. > :55:38.We're against this cabinet system lots of councils have.
:55:39. > :55:42.UKIP in local government is falling apart.
:55:43. > :55:49.councillors four years ago and only have seven left mouthfuls of three
:55:50. > :55:52.have gone, one's gone to the Tories, one has become independent and one
:55:53. > :55:55.resigned from is it for not turning up to meetings so UKIP don't
:55:56. > :55:58.have a record in local government because there's no consistency.
:55:59. > :56:01.What is your role now in Brussels and Strasbourg question you're
:56:02. > :56:05.being paid by the taxpayer to be there and yet we are now leaving
:56:06. > :56:12.While we are still in the EU, we need to have MEPs
:56:13. > :56:14.there to make sure the British people actually know
:56:15. > :56:21.Until UKIP actually sent MEPs to Brussels,
:56:22. > :56:24.we were just kept in the ignorance and actually the grand plan
:56:25. > :56:28.of what European ever closer union and harmonisation meant,
:56:29. > :56:33.so we are still there and UKIP MEPs, since this latest legislature,
:56:34. > :56:38.we all turn up, we attend our committees, we vote.
:56:39. > :56:42.Nigel Farage has got a history of not turning up to committees.
:56:43. > :56:53.Being paid for a job but not doing it.
:56:54. > :56:56.At one point, there was very little reason for us to turn up because...
:56:57. > :56:59.You are being paid to turn up and argue a case.
:57:00. > :57:05.It's exactly the same for not turning up to
:57:06. > :57:06.Hampshire county council and having to resign.
:57:07. > :57:09.It was deemed we would be better off working hard in the UK.
:57:10. > :57:14.They won the referendum at the end of the day.
:57:15. > :57:17.The real issue now is we are getting a deal which is not
:57:18. > :57:24.People were told we'll leave the European Union but stay
:57:25. > :57:27.in the single market, stay in the customs union.
:57:28. > :57:35.Can I just say, in defence, of Nigel Farage, Nigel came off
:57:36. > :57:44.Now, our regular roundup of the political week
:57:45. > :58:04.A guardsman, Councillor, a queen and a cow.
:58:05. > :58:06.An innovative photocall for Reading's royal blue buses,
:58:07. > :58:08.the new fleet which runs on farm waste.
:58:09. > :58:11.More innovation and crowd funding campaigns to give every
:58:12. > :58:13.MP a copy of Brexit, what the hell happens now?
:58:14. > :58:18.If we are going to move ahead with this, we need to be careful.
:58:19. > :58:23.Perhaps Hampshire police could try crowd funding.
:58:24. > :58:25.PCC Michael Lane says they are 25% underfunded
:58:26. > :58:34.Current national formula with two thirds money is not fit
:58:35. > :58:41.more female scientists by using gender blind applications.
:58:42. > :58:43.Those hiring people won't see names on shortlists
:58:44. > :58:48.And a scheme to get more jobs for homeless people has been backed
:58:49. > :58:59.to do more after discovering one of his employees was sleeping rough.
:59:00. > :59:04.That's one practical thing that you could do.
:59:05. > :59:12.the people hiring don't know who's who.
:59:13. > :59:15.It would be interesting to see if it did.
:59:16. > :59:17.The evidence is it works in recruitment.
:59:18. > :59:28.If you don't know things about people, you're more likely
:59:29. > :59:32.The evidence is, for example, ethnic minority candidates are less
:59:33. > :59:35.likely to get them simply because people at the name.
:59:36. > :59:37.Some would say that a more fundamental problem and we should
:59:38. > :59:43.stop boys being given Lego at Christmas.
:59:44. > :59:48.I think irrespective of what people say, there is a difference for that
:59:49. > :59:51.I myself know in science female scientists, because I'm
:59:52. > :59:52.a biochemist, we approach work completely differently.
:59:53. > :59:55.The key issue is to respect individuality.
:59:56. > :00:03.Both of you, thank you very much for being on the programme this week.
:00:04. > :00:10.have to do this. Thank you to you both.
:00:11. > :00:20.What exactly is the government's industrial strategy?
:00:21. > :00:24.Will ministers lose their supreme court battle over Brexit, and,
:00:25. > :00:36.Well, tomorrow Theresa May is launching the government's
:00:37. > :00:39.industrial strategy - and to talk about that we're joined
:00:40. > :00:47.by the Business Minister, Margot James - welcome to the show.
:00:48. > :00:54.When you look at what has already been released in advance of the
:00:55. > :01:00.Prime Minister's statement, it was embargoed for last night, it's not
:01:01. > :01:04.really an industrial strategy, it's just another skills strategy, of
:01:05. > :01:11.which we have had about six since the war, and our skills training is
:01:12. > :01:15.among the worst in Western Europe? There will be plenty more to be
:01:16. > :01:19.announced tomorrow in what is really a discussion document in the
:01:20. > :01:23.preparation of an industrial strategy which we intend to launch
:01:24. > :01:32.properly later in the year. Let's look at skills. You are allocating
:01:33. > :01:38.117 of funding to establish institutes of technology. How many?
:01:39. > :01:44.The exact number is to be agreed, but the spend is there, and it will
:01:45. > :01:47.be on top of what we are doing to the university, technical
:01:48. > :01:53.colleges... How many were lit bio create? We don't know exactly, but
:01:54. > :01:57.we want to put them in areas where young people are performing under
:01:58. > :02:04.the national average. But if you don't know how many, what is the
:02:05. > :02:08.basis of 170 million? That is the amount the Treasury have released.
:02:09. > :02:13.The something that is very important, we are agreed we need to
:02:14. > :02:19.devote more resources to vocational training and get it on a par with
:02:20. > :02:25.academic qualifications. I looked on the website of my old university,
:02:26. > :02:30.the University of Glasgow, the Russell group universities. Its
:02:31. > :02:38.spending budget every year is over 600 million. That's one University.
:02:39. > :02:43.And yet you have a mere 170 million foreign unspecified number of
:02:44. > :02:48.institutes of technology. It hasn't got equality with the academics? You
:02:49. > :02:52.have to remember that just as you have quoted figures from Glasgow
:02:53. > :02:56.University there are further education colleges all over the
:02:57. > :03:05.country. The government is already spending on 16 to 19-year-olds. But
:03:06. > :03:10.also, we are going to be adding... This is new money that is all to the
:03:11. > :03:15.good, because we are already spending a lot. We have already
:03:16. > :03:19.created 2 million more apprentices since 2010. That many are not in
:03:20. > :03:24.what we would call the stem skills, and a lot come nowhere near what the
:03:25. > :03:30.Dutch, Germans and Austrians would have. I'm not clear how another 170
:03:31. > :03:35.million would do. You said it is more than skills. In what way is
:03:36. > :03:47.this industrial strategy different from what Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne
:03:48. > :03:48.did before? It's different because it is involving every single
:03:49. > :03:51.government department, and bringing together everything that government
:03:52. > :03:54.does in a bid to make Britain more competitive as it disengages from
:03:55. > :04:00.the European Union. That is what the last Labour government did. They
:04:01. > :04:04.will much more targeted interventions. Under the Labour
:04:05. > :04:09.government, the auto industry got some benefit. A few more sectors
:04:10. > :04:13.were broached under the coalition government. This is all about
:04:14. > :04:18.communities all over the country, some of whom have fallen behind in
:04:19. > :04:24.terms of wage growth and good jobs. The Prime Minister has already
:04:25. > :04:31.announced 2 billion as a research and development priority in specific
:04:32. > :04:35.technologies, robotics, artificial intelligence, medical technology,
:04:36. > :04:40.satellites... So you are doing what has been done before. There is
:04:41. > :04:45.nothing new about this. Wait until tomorrow, because there will be some
:04:46. > :04:49.new strands emerging. It is the beginning of the dialogue with
:04:50. > :04:55.industry and with workers, and the responses will be invited up until
:04:56. > :05:01.April. That will inform a wider strategy that goes beyond skills. I
:05:02. > :05:06.have moved on to beyond them. I'm slightly puzzled as to how the
:05:07. > :05:11.government knows where to invest in robotics, when it can't even provide
:05:12. > :05:16.the NHS with a decent IT system. Discuss. I have to say I find it
:05:17. > :05:19.bizarre that the government is making an announcement about an
:05:20. > :05:24.amount of money and don't know where it's going. This is typical of all
:05:25. > :05:30.governments over all political shoes, which is total disregard for
:05:31. > :05:38.technical education, so different from Germany, who actually invest in
:05:39. > :05:44.the technological side. Germany has a long history. We want to emulate
:05:45. > :05:49.some of the best of what German companies do. Siemens sponsor
:05:50. > :05:55.primary schools, for example. We want to get a dialogue on with
:05:56. > :06:00.business. We don't want to decide where this money is going. By the
:06:01. > :06:05.way, it was 4.7 billion that the government has agreed to invest in
:06:06. > :06:09.science and research, which is the most significant increase in
:06:10. > :06:14.decades. Can you remind us what happened in Northern Ireland, when
:06:15. > :06:17.the government invested money in state-of-the-art technology for
:06:18. > :06:24.energy? No one needs to be reminded of that, and that is not what we are
:06:25. > :06:29.doing. We are inviting business and industry to advise where that money
:06:30. > :06:35.is best spent. That's very different from government deciding that a
:06:36. > :06:40.particular technology is for the future. The government's chief
:06:41. > :06:45.scientific adviser has determined that we will invest a huge amount in
:06:46. > :06:51.battery technology, which should benefit the electric car industry,
:06:52. > :06:57.and... This is taxpayers' money. Who gets it? Ultimately, business will
:06:58. > :07:03.get it, but often only when there is a considerable amount of private
:07:04. > :07:10.sector finance also drawn in. But who is held to account? Various
:07:11. > :07:15.government departments at local authorities will hold this list to
:07:16. > :07:22.account. A lot of it is about releasing private capital as well.
:07:23. > :07:29.Thank you very much. This week, the Supreme Court, I think we know the
:07:30. > :07:33.ruling is coming on Tuesday. And the expectation is that the judges will
:07:34. > :07:38.say Parliament will have to vote to trigger. Is this all much ado about
:07:39. > :07:42.nothing? Parliament will vote to trigger, and the government will win
:07:43. > :07:46.in the Lords and the Commons by substantial majorities, and it will
:07:47. > :07:51.be triggered? Completely. We've known that. Parliament is voted.
:07:52. > :07:55.Everyone is pretty confident that the Supreme Court will uphold the
:07:56. > :08:04.High Court's decision and say it has to go to MPs. There will be a bit of
:08:05. > :08:09.toing and froing among MPs on amendments. You heard Diane Abbott's
:08:10. > :08:13.slightly car crash interview there. The Lib Dems may throw something in,
:08:14. > :08:20.but we will trigger Article 50 by the end of March. If it also says
:08:21. > :08:25.that the roll of Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast should be picked up,
:08:26. > :08:30.that could complicate matters. Absolutely. That could delay the
:08:31. > :08:34.planned triggering of Article 50 before the end of March. Not what
:08:35. > :08:39.they say about the Westminster Parliament, because it is clear that
:08:40. > :08:44.it was. I never understood the furore about that original judgment,
:08:45. > :08:49.because every MP made it clear they wouldn't block it. Even though Diane
:08:50. > :08:54.Abbott was evasive on several fronts, she said they wouldn't block
:08:55. > :08:58.it. You are right, if they give a vote, or give some authorisation for
:08:59. > :09:03.the Scottish Parliament and other devolved assemblies, that might
:09:04. > :09:09.delay the whole sequence. That is the only significant thing to watch
:09:10. > :09:14.out for. Watch out on Tuesday. Mrs May goes to Washington. It will be
:09:15. > :09:19.another movie in the making! I would suggest that she has a tricky line
:09:20. > :09:24.to follow. She has got to be seen to be taking advantage of the fact that
:09:25. > :09:29.there is a very pro-British, pro-Brexit president in the Oval
:09:30. > :09:33.Office, who I am told is prepared to expend political capital on this.
:09:34. > :09:46.But on the other hand, to make sure that she is not what we used to call
:09:47. > :09:49.Mr Blair, George Bush's poodle. It is very difficult, and who would not
:09:50. > :09:53.want to be a fly on the wall in that meeting! I can't think of anyone in
:09:54. > :09:58.the world who would despise Mr Trump more than Mrs May, and for him, he
:09:59. > :10:09.dislikes any woman who does not look like a supermodel, no disrespected
:10:10. > :10:12.Mrs May. Most of it is actually anti-EU, and I think we should
:10:13. > :10:17.capitalise it. Let's get the Queen to earn her money, roll out the red
:10:18. > :10:25.carpet, invite him to dinner, spend the night, what ever we need...
:10:26. > :10:29.Trump at Balmoral! Here is the issue, because the agenda is, as we
:10:30. > :10:35.heard from Ted Malloch earlier, that this is not an administration that
:10:36. > :10:38.has much time for the EU, EU integration or Germany. I think
:10:39. > :10:43.Germany will be the second biggest loser to begin with. They will not
:10:44. > :10:51.even give a date for Angela Merkel to meet the president. This is an
:10:52. > :11:00.opportunity for Mrs May... It is a huge. It could sideline talks of the
:11:01. > :11:06.punishment beating from Germany. The Trump presidency has completely
:11:07. > :11:10.changed the field on Brexit. Along came Donald Trump, and Theresa May
:11:11. > :11:16.has this incredible opportunity here. Not of her making, but she has
:11:17. > :11:21.played her cards well. To an officially be the EU emissary to
:11:22. > :11:27.Washington, to get some sort of broker going. That gives us huge
:11:28. > :11:31.extra leveraged in the Brexit negotiations. People around the
:11:32. > :11:35.world think Germany as a currency manipulator, that it is benefiting
:11:36. > :11:39.from an underpriced euro, hence the huge surplus it runs of America, and
:11:40. > :11:45.they think it is disgraceful that a country that runs a massive budget
:11:46. > :11:50.surplus spends only 1.2% of its GDP on defence, and America runs a
:11:51. > :11:56.massive deficit and needs to spend a lot more. He's going for Germany.
:11:57. > :12:01.And what a massive shift. I think Obama was quite open, in a farewell
:12:02. > :12:06.interview, that he felt closer to Merkel than any other European
:12:07. > :12:13.leader. And Jamie kind of reflected that in our discussion. Yes, that's
:12:14. > :12:18.very interesting discussion. I think she was the last person he spoke to
:12:19. > :12:24.in the White House, Obama. And now you are getting the onslaught from
:12:25. > :12:29.Trump. This Thatcher- Reagan imagery is dangerous, though. Blair was
:12:30. > :12:33.hypnotised by it and was too scared to criticise Bush, because he wanted
:12:34. > :12:39.to be seen in that light, and we know where that led. Cameron
:12:40. > :12:42.similarly with Obama, which presented him with problems, as
:12:43. > :12:49.Obama didn't regard him as his number one pin up in Europe. I would
:12:50. > :12:54.put a note of caution in there about the Thatcher - Reagan parallel.
:12:55. > :12:59.Everything Trump is doing now is different from before, so Mrs May
:13:00. > :13:05.should not have any of these previous relationships in her mind.
:13:06. > :13:12.That is not entirely true. Donald Trump aches to be the new Ronald
:13:13. > :13:16.Reagan. He may be impeached first! He sees her as the new Margaret
:13:17. > :13:24.Thatcher, and that may her leveraged with him. Thank you.
:13:25. > :13:29.We'll be back here at the same time next week, and you can catch up
:13:30. > :13:31.on all the latest political news on the Daily Politics,
:13:32. > :13:35.In the meantime, remember - if it's Sunday,
:13:36. > :14:13.It's just pain, but it doesn't feel like pain,
:14:14. > :14:36.it feels much more violent, dark and exciting.
:14:37. > :14:42.Join Michael Buerk as he explores the dishes fit for kings and queens.
:14:43. > :14:46.When it comes to extravagance, few monarchs can compete with George IV.
:14:47. > :14:50.If that was for breakfast, I dread to think what he had for dinner.