:00:33. > :00:37.It's Sunday morning, and this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:38. > :00:40.Theresa May pledged to help people who are "just about managing",
:00:41. > :00:43.and this week her government will announce new measures to boost
:00:44. > :00:46.the number of affordable homes and improve conditions for renters.
:00:47. > :00:56.After a US court suspends Donald Trump's travel ban and rules
:00:57. > :01:00.it could be unconstitutional, one of the President's inner circle
:01:01. > :01:03.tells me there is no "chaos", and that Donald Trump's White House
:01:04. > :01:07.is making good on his campaign promises.
:01:08. > :01:09.As the Government gets into gear for two years
:01:10. > :01:12.of Brexit negotiations, we report on the haggling to come
:01:13. > :01:15.over the UK's Brexit bill for leaving the European Union -
:01:16. > :01:37.and the costs and savings once we've left.
:01:38. > :01:40.And with me, as always, a trio of top political
:01:41. > :01:42.journalists - Helen Lewis, Tom Newton Dunn
:01:43. > :01:46.They'll be tweeting throughout the programme,
:01:47. > :01:52.So, more anguish to come this week for the Labour party as the House
:01:53. > :01:55.of Commons continues to debate the bill which paves the way
:01:56. > :02:01.Last week, Labour split over the Article 50 bill,
:02:02. > :02:04.with a fifth of Labour MPs defying Jeremy Corbyn to vote against.
:02:05. > :02:09.Five shadow ministers resigned, and it's expected Mr Corbyn
:02:10. > :02:12.will have to sack more frontbenchers once the bill is voted
:02:13. > :02:16.Add to that the fact that the Labour Leader's close ally
:02:17. > :02:19.Diane Abbot failed to turn up for the initial vote -
:02:20. > :02:21.blaming illness - and things don't look too rosy
:02:22. > :02:24.The Shadow Foreign Secretary Emily Thornberry was asked
:02:25. > :02:28.about the situation earlier on the Andrew Marr show.
:02:29. > :02:32.The Labour Party is a national party and we represent the nation,
:02:33. > :02:37.and the nation is divided on this, and it is very difficult.
:02:38. > :02:42.Many MPs representing majority Remain constituencies have this very
:02:43. > :02:44.difficult balancing act between - do I represent my constituency,
:02:45. > :02:48.Labour, as a national party, have a clear view.
:02:49. > :02:56.We fought to stay in Europe, but the public have spoken,
:02:57. > :03:01.But the important thing now is not to give Theresa May a blank check,
:03:02. > :03:07.we have to make sure we get the right deal for the country.
:03:08. > :03:14.That was Emily Thornberry. Helen, is this like a form of Chinese water
:03:15. > :03:18.torture for the Labour Party? And for journalists, to! We are in a
:03:19. > :03:22.situation where no one really thinks it's working. A lot of authority has
:03:23. > :03:26.drained away from Jeremy Corbyn but no one can do anything about it.
:03:27. > :03:31.What we saw from the leadership contest is on the idea of a Blairite
:03:32. > :03:35.plot to get rid of him. You are essentially stuck in stasis. The
:03:36. > :03:40.only person that can remove Jeremy Corbyn is God or Jeremy Corbyn.
:03:41. > :03:44.Authority may have moved from Mr Corbyn but it's not going anywhere
:03:45. > :03:51.else, there's not an alternative centre of authority? Not quite, but
:03:52. > :03:55.Clive Lewis is name emerging, the Shadow Business Secretary. A lot of
:03:56. > :03:59.the Labour left, people like Paul Mason, really like him and would
:04:00. > :04:04.like to see him in Corbyn. I think that's why Jeremy Corbyn do
:04:05. > :04:09.something extraordinary next week and abstain from Article 50, the
:04:10. > :04:15.main bill itself, to keep his Shadow Cabinet together. That clip on
:04:16. > :04:20.Andrew Marr, point blank refusing to say if Labour will vote for Article
:04:21. > :04:25.50. The only way Jeremy Corbyn can hold this mess together now is to
:04:26. > :04:28.abstain, which would be catastrophic across Brexit constituencies in the
:04:29. > :04:35.North. The problem with abstention is everyone will say on the issue of
:04:36. > :04:40.our time, the official opposition hasn't got coherent or considered
:04:41. > :04:44.policy? I love the way Emily Thornberry said the country is
:04:45. > :04:46.divided and we represent the country, in other words we are
:04:47. > :04:49.divided at the party as well. The other thing that was a crucial
:04:50. > :04:54.moment this week is the debate over whether there should be a so-called
:04:55. > :04:58.meaningful vote by MPs on the deal that Theresa May gets. That is a
:04:59. > :05:05.point of real danger for Brexit supporters. It may well be there is
:05:06. > :05:08.a coalition of Labour and SNP and Remain MPs, Tory MPs, who vote for
:05:09. > :05:13.that so-called meaningful vote that could undermine Theresa May's
:05:14. > :05:18.negotiation. So Theresa May could have had troubles as well, not plain
:05:19. > :05:23.sailing for her? There is no point, apart from lonely Ken Clarke voting
:05:24. > :05:26.against Article 50, no point in Tory remainders rebelling. It would have
:05:27. > :05:30.been a token gesture with no support. But there might be
:05:31. > :05:34.meaningful amendments. One might be on the status of EU nationals... The
:05:35. > :05:43.government could lose that. There might be a majority for some of
:05:44. > :05:45.those amendments. The ins and outs of the Labour Party, it fascinates
:05:46. > :05:48.the Labour Party and journalists. I suspect the country has just moved
:05:49. > :05:53.on and doesn't care. You are probably quite right. To be honest I
:05:54. > :05:58.struggled to get Labour split stories in my paper any more, the
:05:59. > :06:03.bar is so high to make it news. Where it does matter is now not
:06:04. > :06:08.everyone will pay huge amounts to the -- of attention to the vote on
:06:09. > :06:13.Wednesday. But come the general election in 2020, maybe a little
:06:14. > :06:16.earlier, every Tory leaflet and every labour constituency will say
:06:17. > :06:20.this guy, this goal, they refuse to vote for Brexit, do you want them in
:06:21. > :06:25.power? That is going to be really hard for them. The story next week
:06:26. > :06:29.may be Tory splits rather than just Labour ones, we will see.
:06:30. > :06:33.Theresa May has made a big deal out of her commitment to help people
:06:34. > :06:36.on middle incomes who are "just about managing", and early this week
:06:37. > :06:39.we should get a good sense of what that means in practice -
:06:40. > :06:42.when plans to bring down the cost of housing and protect renters
:06:43. > :06:43.are published in the Government's new white paper.
:06:44. > :06:46.Theresa May has promised she'll kick off Brexit negotiations with the EU
:06:47. > :06:48.by the end of March, and after months of shadow-boxing
:06:49. > :06:53.Ellie Price reports on the battle to come over the UK's Brexit bill,
:06:54. > :06:55.and the likely costs and savings once we've left.
:06:56. > :06:57.It was the figure that defined the EU referendum campaign.
:06:58. > :07:03.It was also a figure that was fiercely disputed, but the promise -
:07:04. > :07:06.vote leave and Britain won't have to pay into the EU are any more.
:07:07. > :07:08.So, is that what's going to happen now?
:07:09. > :07:11.The trouble with buses is you tend to have to wait for them
:07:12. > :07:14.and when Theresa May triggers Article 50, the clock starts
:07:15. > :07:18.She needs something quicker, something more sporty.
:07:19. > :07:25.According to the most recent Treasury figures,
:07:26. > :07:27.Britain's gross contribution to the EU, after the rebate
:07:28. > :07:30.is taken into account, is about ?14 billion a year.
:07:31. > :07:35.There are some complicating factors that means it can go up
:07:36. > :07:38.or down year on year, but that's roughly how much the UK
:07:39. > :07:40.will no longer sending to Brussels post-Brexit.
:07:41. > :07:43.But, there are other payments that Britain will have to shell out for.
:07:44. > :07:46.First and foremost, the so-called divorce settlement.
:07:47. > :07:52.It is being said, and openly by Commissioner Barnier
:07:53. > :07:56.and others in the Commission, that the total financial liability
:07:57. > :07:59.as they see it might be in the order of 40-60 billion
:08:00. > :08:04.The BBC understands the figure EU negotiators are likely
:08:05. > :08:10.to settle on is far lower, around 34 billion euros,
:08:11. > :08:12.but what does the money they are going to argue
:08:13. > :08:18.Well, that's how much Britain owes for stuff in the EU budget that's
:08:19. > :08:21.already signed up for until 2020, one year after we are
:08:22. > :08:25.Historically, Britain pays 12% in contributions,
:08:26. > :08:28.so the cost to the UK is likely to be between ten
:08:29. > :08:37.Then they will look at the 200-250 billion euros of underfunded
:08:38. > :08:38.spending commitments, the so-called RAL.
:08:39. > :08:46.Britain could also be liable for around 5-7 billion euros
:08:47. > :08:51.for its share in the pensions bill for EU staff, that's again
:08:52. > :08:52.12% of an overall bill of 50-60 billion.
:08:53. > :08:55.Finally there's a share of our assets held by the EU.
:08:56. > :09:00.They include things like this building, the European Commission
:09:01. > :09:08.Britain could argue it deserves a share back of around 18 billion
:09:09. > :09:11.euros from a portfolio that's said to be worth 153 billion euros.
:09:12. > :09:13.So, lots for the two sides to discuss in two years of talks.
:09:14. > :09:16.They have a great opportunity with the Article 50 talks
:09:17. > :09:21.because actually they can hold us to ransom.
:09:22. > :09:24.They can say, "You figure out money, we will talk about your trade.
:09:25. > :09:27.But until you've figured out the money, we won't," so I think
:09:28. > :09:30.a lot of European states think they are in a very strong
:09:31. > :09:32.negotiating position at the moment and they intend to make
:09:33. > :09:37.The principle is clear, the days of Britain making vast
:09:38. > :09:42.contributions to the European Union every year will end.
:09:43. > :09:47.Theresa May has already indicated that she would want to sign back up
:09:48. > :09:53.to a number of EU agencies on a program-by-program basis.
:09:54. > :09:55.The Europol for example, that's the European crime
:09:56. > :10:00.agency, or Erasmus Plus, which wants student exchanges.
:10:01. > :10:03.If everything stays the same as it is now, it would cost the UK
:10:04. > :10:05.675 million euros a year, based on analysis by
:10:06. > :10:14.But there are likely to be agencies we don't choose to participate in.
:10:15. > :10:24.If we only opted back to those dealing with security,
:10:25. > :10:25.trade, universities and, say, climate change,
:10:26. > :10:28.it could come with a price tag of 370 million euros per year.
:10:29. > :10:30.Of course that's if our European neighbours allow us.
:10:31. > :10:32.I wonder if they're going to let me in!
:10:33. > :10:36.There will also be a cost to creating a new system to resolve
:10:37. > :10:38.trade disputes with other nations once we are no longer part
:10:39. > :10:43.Take the EFTA Court which rules on disputes
:10:44. > :10:46.between the EU and Norway, Iceland and Lichtenstein.
:10:47. > :10:51.That costs 4 million euros to run each year,
:10:52. > :10:53.though in the Brexit White Paper published this week,
:10:54. > :10:56.the Government said it will not be constrained by precedent
:10:57. > :11:01.Finally, would the EU get behind the idea of Britain making some
:11:02. > :11:07.contribution for some preferential access to its market?
:11:08. > :11:10.The sort of thing that Theresa May seems to be hinting
:11:11. > :11:12.at are sectoral arrangements, some kind of partial membership
:11:13. > :11:20.Switzerland, which has a far less wide-ranging deal than Norway,
:11:21. > :11:23.pays about 320 million a year for what it gets into the EU budget,
:11:24. > :11:26.but it's not exactly the Swiss deal that we're after.
:11:27. > :11:28.The EU institutions hate the Swiss deal because it is codified
:11:29. > :11:31.in a huge number of treaties that are messy, complicated
:11:32. > :11:33.and cumbersome, and they really don't want to replicate
:11:34. > :11:40.Theresa May has been at pains to insist she's in the driving seat
:11:41. > :11:42.when it comes to these negotiations, and that she's
:11:43. > :11:51.But with so much money up for discussion, it may not be such
:11:52. > :12:09.Sadly she didn't get to keep the car!
:12:10. > :12:11.And I've been joined to discuss the Brexit balance sheet
:12:12. > :12:14.by the director of the Centre for European Reform, Charles Grant,
:12:15. > :12:16.and by Henry Newman who runs the think tank Open Europe.
:12:17. > :12:24.Henry Newman, these figures that are being thrown about in Brussels at
:12:25. > :12:28.the moment, and exit bill of 40-60,000,000,000. What do you make
:12:29. > :12:31.of them? I think it is an opening gambit from the institutions and we
:12:32. > :12:37.should take them seriously. We listened to Mr Rogers, the former
:12:38. > :12:41.ambassador to Brussels in the House of Commons last week, speaking about
:12:42. > :12:45.the sort of positions the EU is likely to take in the negotiation. I
:12:46. > :12:49.personally think the Prime Minister should be more concerned about
:12:50. > :12:51.getting the right sort of trade arrangements, subsequent to our
:12:52. > :12:56.departure, than worrying about the exact detail of the divorce
:12:57. > :13:01.settlement and the Bill. They might not let them go on to trade until
:13:02. > :13:06.they resolve this matter. Where does the Brexit bill, the cost of exit,
:13:07. > :13:11.if there is to be one, in terms of a sum of money, where does that come
:13:12. > :13:15.in the negotiations, upfront or at the end? The European Commission has
:13:16. > :13:20.a firm line on this. You have to talk about the Brexit bill and the
:13:21. > :13:22.divorce settlement before you talk about the future relationship.
:13:23. > :13:26.Therefore they are saying if you don't sign up for 60 billion or
:13:27. > :13:30.thereabouts, we won't talk about the future. Other member states take a
:13:31. > :13:33.softer line than that and think you probably have to talk about the
:13:34. > :13:38.divorce settlement and Brexit bill as the same -- at the same time as
:13:39. > :13:43.the economic situation. If you can do both at the same time, the
:13:44. > :13:48.atmosphere may be better natured. You have spoken to people in
:13:49. > :13:54.Brussels and are part of a think tank, how Revista gives the figure
:13:55. > :13:58.or is it an opening gambit? Most member states and EU institutions
:13:59. > :14:01.believe they think it is the true figure but when the negotiations
:14:02. > :14:04.start adding the number will come down. As long as the British are
:14:05. > :14:10.prepared to sign up to the principle of we owe you a bit of money, as the
:14:11. > :14:15.cheque, then people will compromise. What is the ballpark? You had a
:14:16. > :14:19.figure of 34 billion, that is news to me, nobody knows because
:14:20. > :14:24.negotiations haven't started but I think something lower than 60. Even
:14:25. > :14:29.60 would be politically toxic for a British government? I think Theresa
:14:30. > :14:33.May is in a strong position, she has united the Conservative Party. You
:14:34. > :14:38.could expect coming into this year all the Conservative divisions would
:14:39. > :14:44.be laid bare by Gina Miller. But she is leading a united party. Labour
:14:45. > :14:50.Party are divided... Coogee get away with paying 30 billion? We should
:14:51. > :14:53.give her the benefit of the doubt going into these negotiations, let
:14:54. > :14:56.her keep her cards close to her chest. The speech he gave a few
:14:57. > :15:00.weeks ago at Lancaster House, our judgment was she laid out as much
:15:01. > :15:05.detail as we could have expected at that point. I don't think it's
:15:06. > :15:08.helpful for us now to say, we shouldn't be introducing further red
:15:09. > :15:13.line. I want you to be helpful and find things out. I would suggest if
:15:14. > :15:18.there is a bill, let's say it's 30 billion, let's make it half of what
:15:19. > :15:21.the current claims coming out of Brussels. And of course it won't
:15:22. > :15:25.have to be paid in one year, I assume it's not one cheque but
:15:26. > :15:29.spread over. But we will wait a long time for that 350 million a week or
:15:30. > :15:35.what ever it was that was meant to come from Brussels to spend on the
:15:36. > :15:41.NHS. That's not going to happen for the next five, six or seven years.
:15:42. > :15:47.Everyone has been clear there will be a phased exit programme. The
:15:48. > :15:50.question of whether something is political possible for her in terms
:15:51. > :15:53.of the divorce settlement will depend on what she gets from the
:15:54. > :15:58.European Union in those negotiations. If she ends up
:15:59. > :16:02.settling for a bill of about 30 billion which I think would be
:16:03. > :16:08.politically... No matter how popular she is, politically very difficult
:16:09. > :16:13.for her, it does kill any idea there is a Brexit dividend for Britain.
:16:14. > :16:17.Some of the senior officials in London and Brussels are worried this
:16:18. > :16:21.issue could crash the talks because it may be possible for Theresa May
:16:22. > :16:26.to accept a Brexit bill of 30 billion and if there is no deal and
:16:27. > :16:33.will leave EU without a settlement, there is massive legal uncertainty.
:16:34. > :16:36.What contract law applies? Can our planes take off from Heathrow?
:16:37. > :16:41.Nobody knows what legal rights there are for an EU citizen living here
:16:42. > :16:48.and vice versa. If there is no deal at the end of two years, it is quite
:16:49. > :16:52.bad for the European economy, therefore they think they have all
:16:53. > :16:56.the cards to play and they think if it is mishandled domestically in
:16:57. > :17:02.Britain than we have a crash. But there will be competing interests in
:17:03. > :17:05.Europe, the Baltic states, Eastern Europe, maybe quite similar of the
:17:06. > :17:10.Nordic states, that in turn different from the French, Germans
:17:11. > :17:16.or Italians. How will Europe come to a common view on these things? At
:17:17. > :17:23.the moment they are quite united backing a strong line, except for
:17:24. > :17:29.the polls and Hungarians who are the bad boys of Europe and the Irish who
:17:30. > :17:33.will do anything to keep us happy. We should remember their priority is
:17:34. > :17:38.not economics, they are not thinking how can they maximise trade with the
:17:39. > :17:42.UK, they are under threat. The combination of Trump and Brexit
:17:43. > :17:49.scares them. They want to keep the institutions strong. They also want
:17:50. > :17:54.to keep Britain. That is the one strong card we have, contributing to
:17:55. > :17:58.security. We know we won't be members of the single market, that
:17:59. > :18:04.was in the White Paper. The situation of the customs union is
:18:05. > :18:10.more complicated I would suggest. Does that have cost? If we can be a
:18:11. > :18:15.little bit pregnant in the customs union, does that come with a price
:18:16. > :18:20.ticket? We have got some clarity on the customs union, the Prime
:18:21. > :18:25.Minister said we would not be part of the... We would be able to do our
:18:26. > :18:29.own trade deals outside the EU customs union, and also not be part
:18:30. > :18:32.of the common external tariff. She said she is willing to look at other
:18:33. > :18:36.options and we don't know what that will be so as a think tank we are
:18:37. > :18:39.looking at this over the next few weeks and coming up with
:18:40. > :18:42.recommendations for the Government and looking at how existing
:18:43. > :18:47.boundaries between the EU customs union and other states work in
:18:48. > :18:51.practice. For example between Switzerland and the EU border,
:18:52. > :18:57.Norway and Switzerland, and the UK and Canada. We will want is a
:18:58. > :19:04.country the freedom to do our own free trade deals, that seems to be
:19:05. > :19:09.quite high up there, and to change our external tariffs to the rest of
:19:10. > :19:13.the world. If that's the case, we do seem to be wanting our cake and
:19:14. > :19:17.eating it in the customs union. Talking to some people in London, it
:19:18. > :19:23.is quite clear we are leaving the essentials of the customs union, the
:19:24. > :19:28.tariff, so even if we can minimise controls at the border by having
:19:29. > :19:31.mutual recognition agreements, so we recognise each other's standards,
:19:32. > :19:36.but there will still have to be checks for things like rules of
:19:37. > :19:39.origin and tariffs if tariffs apply, which is a problem for the Irish
:19:40. > :19:43.because nobody has worked out how you can avoid having some sort of
:19:44. > :19:47.customs control on the border between Northern Ireland and the
:19:48. > :19:50.South once we are out of the customs union. I think it's important we
:19:51. > :19:57.don't look at this too much as one side has to win and one side has to
:19:58. > :20:00.lose scenario. We can find ways. My Broadview is what we get out of the
:20:01. > :20:03.negotiation will depend on politics more than economic reality. Economic
:20:04. > :20:21.reality is strong, there's a good case for a trade deal on the
:20:22. > :20:23.solution on the customs deal, but Britain will need to come up with a
:20:24. > :20:26.positive case for our relationship and keep making that case. If it
:20:27. > :20:28.turns out the Government thinks the bill is too high, that we can't
:20:29. > :20:32.really get the free trade deal done in time and it's left hanging in the
:20:33. > :20:35.wind, what are the chances, how I as things stand now that we end up
:20:36. > :20:39.crashing out? I'd say there's a 30% chance that we don't get the free
:20:40. > :20:44.trade agreement at the end of it that Mrs May is aiming for. The very
:20:45. > :20:48.hard crash is you don't even do an Article 50 divorce settlement from
:20:49. > :20:53.you go straight to World Trade Organisation rules. The less hard
:20:54. > :20:57.crash is doing the divorce settlement and transitional
:20:58. > :21:02.arrangements would require European Court of Justice arrangements. We
:21:03. > :21:04.will leave it there. Thank you, both.
:21:05. > :21:06.Donald Trump's flagship policy of extreme vetting of immigrants
:21:07. > :21:08.and a temporary travel ban for citizens of seven mainly-muslim
:21:09. > :21:10.countries was stopped in its tracks this weekend.
:21:11. > :21:13.On Friday a judge ruled the ban should be lifted and that it
:21:14. > :21:18.That prompted President Trump to fire off a series of tweets
:21:19. > :21:21.criticising what he says was a terrible decision
:21:22. > :21:23.by a so-called judge, as he ordered the State Department
:21:24. > :21:31.Now the federal appeals court has rejected his request to reinstate
:21:32. > :21:42.the ban until it hears the case in full.
:21:43. > :21:47.Well yesterday I spoke to Sebastian Gorka, Deputy Assistant
:21:48. > :21:50.I asked him if the confusion over the travel ban
:21:51. > :21:52.was a sign that the President's two-week-old administration
:21:53. > :22:05.There is no chaos, you really shouldn't believe the spin, the
:22:06. > :22:11.facts speak for themselves. 109 people on Saturday were mildly
:22:12. > :22:17.inconvenienced by having their entry into the United States delayed out
:22:18. > :22:26.of 325,000. So let's not get carried away with the left-wing media bias
:22:27. > :22:30.and spin. Hold on, 60,000 - 90,000 people with visas, their visas are
:22:31. > :22:34.no longer valid. That's another issue. You need to listen to what
:22:35. > :22:41.I'm saying. The people who entered on the day of the executive order
:22:42. > :22:47.being implemented worth 109 people out of 325. Whether people won't
:22:48. > :22:56.travelling to America were affected is another matter, so there is no
:22:57. > :23:01.chaos to comment on. Following Iran's latest missile tests,
:23:02. > :23:07.National Security adviser Flint said the US was "Putting Iran on notice",
:23:08. > :23:10.what does that mean? It means we have a new president and we are not
:23:11. > :23:16.going to facilitate the rise of one of the most dangerous nations in the
:23:17. > :23:24.world. We are jettisoning this naive and dangerous policy of the Obama
:23:25. > :23:28.Administration to try and make the Shi'ite dictatorial democracy some
:23:29. > :23:32.kind of counter balance to extremist Sunni groups in the region and that
:23:33. > :23:36.they cannot continue to behave in the way they have behaved for the
:23:37. > :23:42.last 30 years. It is a very simple message. So are there any
:23:43. > :23:49.multilateral alliances that Mr Trump would like to strengthen?
:23:50. > :23:52.Absolutely. If we are looking at the region, if you listen to what
:23:53. > :23:57.President Trump has said and specifically to also the speeches of
:23:58. > :24:02.general Flint, his national security adviser, we are incredibly vested in
:24:03. > :24:08.seeing our Sunni allies in the region come together in a real
:24:09. > :24:15.coalition. The so-called vaunted 66 nation coalition that was created
:24:16. > :24:19.under the Obama administration... There was no coalition. But we want
:24:20. > :24:27.to help our Sunni allies, especially the Egyptians, the Jordanians, come
:24:28. > :24:33.together in a real partnership to take the fight to ISIS and groups
:24:34. > :24:38.like Al-Qaeda. But there is not a formal multilateral alliance with
:24:39. > :24:42.these countries. Which of the existing, formal multilateral
:24:43. > :24:47.alliances does Mr Trump wants to strengthen? If you are specifically
:24:48. > :24:51.talking about Nato, it is clear that we are committed to Nato but we wish
:24:52. > :24:55.to see a more equitable burden sharing among the nations that are
:24:56. > :24:59.simply not spending enough on their own defence so the gentleman 's
:25:00. > :25:03.agreement of 2% of GDP has to be stuck to, unlike the, I think it's
:25:04. > :25:08.only Six Nations that reach the standard today out of almost 30. So
:25:09. > :25:19.he does want to strengthen Nato then? Absolutely, he believes Nato
:25:20. > :25:25.is the most successful military alliances. You mustn't believe the
:25:26. > :25:30.spin and hype. EU leaders now see the Trump administration as a threat
:25:31. > :25:36.up there with Russia, China, terrorism. What's your response to
:25:37. > :25:42.that? I have to laugh. The idea that the nation that came to the
:25:43. > :25:48.salvation of Europe twice in the 20th century hummer in World War I
:25:49. > :26:00.and World War II, was central to the defeat of the totalitarian... It is
:26:01. > :26:04.not even worth commenting on. Would it matter to the Trump
:26:05. > :26:07.administration if the European Union broke up? The United States is very
:26:08. > :26:14.interested in the best relations possible with all the nations of the
:26:15. > :26:19.EU am a whether the European union wishes to stay together or not is up
:26:20. > :26:25.to the nations of the European Union. I understand that but I was
:26:26. > :26:30.wondering what the US view would be. Until Mr Trump, EU foreign policy
:26:31. > :26:34.was quite consistent in wanting to see the EU survive, prosper and even
:26:35. > :26:38.become more integrated. Now that doesn't seem to be the case, so
:26:39. > :26:43.would it matter to the Trump administration if the EU broke up? I
:26:44. > :26:46.will say yet again, it is in the interests of the United States to
:26:47. > :26:51.have the best relations possible with our European allies, and
:26:52. > :26:55.whether that is in the formation of the EU or if the EU by itself
:26:56. > :27:00.suffers some kind of internal issues, that's up to the European
:27:01. > :27:04.nations and not something we will comment on. Listening to that
:27:05. > :27:09.answer, it would seem as if this particular president's preference is
:27:10. > :27:15.to deal with individual nation states rather than multilateral
:27:16. > :27:22.institutions. Is that fair? I don't think so. There's never been an
:27:23. > :27:26.unequivocal statement by that effect by the statement. Does he share the
:27:27. > :27:31.opinion of Stephen Bannon that the 21st century should see a return to
:27:32. > :27:36.nation states rather than growing existing multilateral ways? I think
:27:37. > :27:39.it is fair to say that we have problems with political elites that
:27:40. > :27:45.don't take the interests of the populations they represent into
:27:46. > :27:51.account. That's why Brexit happened. I think that's why Mr Trump became
:27:52. > :27:55.President Trump. This is the connected phenomena. You are
:27:56. > :27:58.obsessing about institutions, it is not about institutions, it's about
:27:59. > :28:04.the health of democracy and whether political elites do what is in the
:28:05. > :28:06.interests of the people they represent. Given the
:28:07. > :28:09.unpredictability of the new president, you never really know
:28:10. > :28:14.what he's going to do next, would it be wise for the British Prime
:28:15. > :28:21.Minister to hitch her wagon to his star? This is really churlish
:28:22. > :28:25.questioning. Come on, you don't know what he's going to do next, listen
:28:26. > :28:30.to what he says because he does what he's going to say. I know this may
:28:31. > :28:34.be shocking to some reporters, but look at his campaign promises, and
:28:35. > :28:40.the fact that in the last 15 days we have executed every single one that
:28:41. > :28:45.we could in the time permissible so there is nothing unpredictable about
:28:46. > :28:51.Donald Trump as president. OK then, if we do know what he's going to do
:28:52. > :28:55.next, what is he going to do next? Continue to make good on his
:28:56. > :29:02.election promises, to make America great again, to make the economy are
:29:03. > :29:06.flourishing economy, and most important of all from your
:29:07. > :29:11.perspective in the UK, to be the best friend possible to our friends
:29:12. > :29:16.and the worst enemy to our enemies. It is an old Marine Corps phrase and
:29:17. > :29:24.we tend to live by it. Thank you for your time, we will leave it there.
:29:25. > :29:31.Doctor Gorka, making it clear this administration won't spend political
:29:32. > :29:32.capital on trying to keep the European Union together, a watershed
:29:33. > :29:35.change in American foreign policy. Theresa May has made a big deal out
:29:36. > :29:38.of her commitment to help people on middle incomes who are "just
:29:39. > :29:41.about managing", and early this week we should get a good sense
:29:42. > :29:44.of what that means in practice - when plans to bring down the cost
:29:45. > :29:47.of housing and protect renters are published in the Government's
:29:48. > :29:49.new white paper. The paper is expected to introduce
:29:50. > :29:51.new rules on building Communities Secretary Sajid Javid
:29:52. > :29:57.has previously said politicians should not stand in the way
:29:58. > :30:00.of development, provided all options Also rumoured are new measures
:30:01. > :30:04.to speed up building the 1 million new homes the Government promised
:30:05. > :30:06.to build by 2020, including imposing five-year quotas
:30:07. > :30:10.on reluctant councils. Reports suggest there will be
:30:11. > :30:12.relaxation of building height restrictions,
:30:13. > :30:14.allowing home owners and developers to build to the height
:30:15. > :30:17.of the tallest building on the block without needing to seek
:30:18. > :30:23.planning permission. Other elements trialled include
:30:24. > :30:27.new measures to stop developers sitting on parcels of land
:30:28. > :30:29.without building homes, land banking, and moving railway
:30:30. > :30:31.station car parks Underground, The Government today said it
:30:32. > :30:40.will amend planning rules so more homes can be built specifically
:30:41. > :30:43.to be rented out through longer term tenancies, to provide more stability
:30:44. > :30:45.for young families, alongside its proposed ban
:30:46. > :30:52.on letting agent fees. And the Housing Minister,
:30:53. > :31:01.Gavin Barwell, joins me now. Welcome to the programme. Home
:31:02. > :31:05.ownership is now beyond the reach of most young people. You are now
:31:06. > :31:09.emphasising affordable homes for rent. Why have you given up on the
:31:10. > :31:13.Tory dream of a property owning democracy? We haven't given up on
:31:14. > :31:18.that. The decline on home ownership in this country started in 2004. So
:31:19. > :31:21.far we have stopped that decline, we haven't reversed it but we
:31:22. > :31:26.absolutely want to make sure that people who want to own and can do
:31:27. > :31:29.so. The Prime Minister was very clear a country that works for
:31:30. > :31:33.everyone. That means we have to have say something to say to those who
:31:34. > :31:38.want to rent as well as on. Home ownership of young people is 35%,
:31:39. > :31:42.used to be 60%. Are you telling me during the lifetime of this
:31:43. > :31:47.government that is going to rise? We want to reverse the decline. We have
:31:48. > :31:51.stabilised it. The decline started in 2004 under Labour. They weren't
:31:52. > :31:56.bothered about it. We have taken action and that has stop the
:31:57. > :32:00.decline... What about the rise? We have to make sure people work hard
:32:01. > :32:03.the right thing have the chance to own their home on home. We have
:32:04. > :32:08.helped people through help to buy, shared ownership, that is part of
:32:09. > :32:12.it, but we have to have something to say to those who want to rent. You
:32:13. > :32:18.say you want more rented homes so why did you introduce a 3%
:32:19. > :32:21.additional stamp duty levied to pay those investing in build to rent
:32:22. > :32:25.properties? That was basically to try and stop a lot of the
:32:26. > :32:28.speculation in the buy to let market. The Bank of England raised
:32:29. > :32:34.concerns about that. When you see the white paper, you will see there
:32:35. > :32:41.is a package of measures for Bill to rent, trying to get institutional
:32:42. > :32:44.investment for that, different to people going and buying a home on
:32:45. > :32:49.the private market and renting out. You are trying to get institutional
:32:50. > :32:51.money to comment, just as this government and subsequent ones
:32:52. > :32:54.before said it would get pension fund money to invest in
:32:55. > :32:59.infrastructure and it never happened. Why should this happen? Is
:33:00. > :33:02.already starting to happen. If you go around the country you can see
:33:03. > :33:07.some of these builder rent scheme is happening. There are changes in the
:33:08. > :33:17.White Paper... How much money from institutions is going into bill to
:33:18. > :33:20.rent modular hundreds of millions. I was at the stock exchange the other
:33:21. > :33:23.day celebrating the launch of one of our bombs designed to get this money
:33:24. > :33:25.on. There are schemes being... There is huge potential to expand it. We
:33:26. > :33:28.need more homes and we are too dependent on a small number of large
:33:29. > :33:36.developers. -- to launch one of our bonds. You talk about affordable
:33:37. > :33:42.renting, what is affordable? Defined as something that is at least 20%
:33:43. > :33:45.below the market price. It will vary around the country. Let me put it
:33:46. > :33:50.another way. The average couple renting now have to spend 50% of
:33:51. > :33:53.their income on rent. Is that affordable? That is exactly what
:33:54. > :33:57.we're trying to do something about. Whether you're trying to buy or
:33:58. > :34:01.rent, housing in this country has become less and less affordable
:34:02. > :34:04.because the 30-40 years governments haven't built in times. This white
:34:05. > :34:08.Paper is trying to do something about that. You have been in power
:34:09. > :34:16.six, almost seven years. That's right. Why are ownership of new
:34:17. > :34:20.homes to 24 year low? It was a low figure because it's a new five-year
:34:21. > :34:24.programme. That is not a great excuse. It's not an excuse at all.
:34:25. > :34:27.The way these things work, you have a five-year programme and in the
:34:28. > :34:31.last year you have a record number of delivery and when you start a new
:34:32. > :34:35.programme, a lower level. If you look at the average over six years,
:34:36. > :34:40.this government has built more affordable housing than the previous
:34:41. > :34:47.one. Stiletto 24 year loss, that is an embarrassment. Yes. We have the
:34:48. > :34:50.figures, last year was 32,000, the year before 60 6000. You get this
:34:51. > :34:55.cliff edge effect. It is embarrassing and we want to stop it
:34:56. > :34:59.happening in the future. You want to give tenants more secure and longer
:35:00. > :35:06.leases which rent rises are predictable in advance. Ed Miliband
:35:07. > :35:10.promoted three-year tenancies in the 2015 general election campaign and
:35:11. > :35:15.George Osborne said it was totally economically illiterate. What's
:35:16. > :35:20.changed? You are merging control of the rents people in charge, which
:35:21. > :35:24.we're not imposing. We want longer term tenancies. Most people have
:35:25. > :35:29.six-month tenancies... Within that there would be a control on how much
:35:30. > :35:33.the rent could go up? Right? It would be set for the period of the
:35:34. > :35:37.tenancies. That's what I just said, that's what Ed Miliband proposed. Ed
:35:38. > :35:42.Miliband proposed regulating it for the whole sector. One of the reasons
:35:43. > :35:46.institutional investment is so attractive, if you had a spare home
:35:47. > :35:51.and you want to rent out, you might need it any year, so you give it a
:35:52. > :35:55.short tenancy. If you have a block, they are interested in a long-term
:35:56. > :36:03.return and give families more security. You have set a target,
:36:04. > :36:06.your government, to build in the life of this parliament 1 million
:36:07. > :36:14.new homes in England by 2020. You're not going to make that? I think we
:36:15. > :36:16.are. If you look at 2015-16 we had 190,000 additional homes of this
:36:17. > :36:24.country. Just below the level we need to achieve. Over five...
:36:25. > :36:30.2015-16. You were probably looking at the new homes built. Talking
:36:31. > :36:34.about completions in England. That is not the best measure, with
:36:35. > :36:39.respect. You said you will complete 1 million homes by 2020 so what is
:36:40. > :36:44.wrong with it? We use a national statistic which looks at new homes
:36:45. > :36:46.built and conversions and changes of use minus demolitions. The total
:36:47. > :36:52.change of the housing stock over that year. On that basis I have the
:36:53. > :36:57.figures here. I have the figures. You looking I just completed. 1
:36:58. > :37:02.million new homes, the average rate of those built in the last three
:37:03. > :37:07.quarters was 30 6000. You have 14 more quarters to get to the 1
:37:08. > :37:11.million. You have to raise that to 50 6000. I put it to you, you won't
:37:12. > :37:16.do it. You're not looking at the full picture of new housing in this
:37:17. > :37:19.country. You're looking at brand-new homes and not including conversions
:37:20. > :37:24.or changes of use are not taking off, which we should, demolitions.
:37:25. > :37:30.If you look at the National statistic net additions, in 2015-16,
:37:31. > :37:35.100 and 90,000 new homes. We are behind schedule. -- 190,000. I am
:37:36. > :37:39.confident with the measures in the White Paper we can achieve that. It
:37:40. > :37:44.is not just about the national total, we need to build these homes
:37:45. > :37:50.are the right places. Will the green belt remain sacrosanct after the
:37:51. > :37:53.white paper? Not proposing to change the existing protections that there
:37:54. > :37:58.for green belts. What planning policy says is councils can remove
:37:59. > :38:00.land from green belts but only in exceptional circumstances and should
:38:01. > :38:06.look at at all the circumstances before doing that. No change? No. We
:38:07. > :38:12.have a manifesto commitment. You still think you will get 1 million
:38:13. > :38:16.homes? The green belt is only 15%. This idea we can only fix our broken
:38:17. > :38:19.housing market by taking huge swathes of land out of the green
:38:20. > :38:23.belt is not true. We will leave it there, thank you for joining us,
:38:24. > :38:24.Gavin Barwell. It is coming up to 11.40.
:38:25. > :38:27.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:38:28. > :38:40.Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead...
:38:41. > :39:03.Duncan Enright is the leader of Labour in
:39:04. > :39:06.West Uxbridge and Tim Lawton is a Conservative MP for East Worthing
:39:07. > :39:15.It is the week where we finally got harmony on Southern Rail.
:39:16. > :39:23.It has gone on for so long and has been the
:39:24. > :39:25.biggest single issue affecting my constituents and has
:39:26. > :39:32.It could have been sorted out months ago, frankly.
:39:33. > :39:35.Aslef got around the table with GTR and it looks like we've a
:39:36. > :39:39.I hope that the RMT are going are going to stick behind
:39:40. > :39:50.The whole fault is this has been politically motivated and the
:39:51. > :39:55.Government has been keen on this operation, but also, Duncan, the RMT
:39:56. > :39:59.in particular are starting a dispute on Merseyrail an hour. Is it safe?
:40:00. > :40:09.Are we happy to travel on these trains or is it not of union say? I
:40:10. > :40:14.think the unions have a ground level understanding. How can you settle if
:40:15. > :40:22.it is the same and trainers? Maybe a second operator, but the same
:40:23. > :40:26.trains? Yes, and the technology is changing as well, but the train
:40:27. > :40:30.system is under strain because it is running at high capacity levels at
:40:31. > :40:37.the moment and we have more passengers than ever before. We've
:40:38. > :40:41.also got a screaming need for investment in infrastructure which
:40:42. > :40:44.is Victorian in most places, so these disputes are important because
:40:45. > :40:55.they are trying to tackle some of those safety issues. It wasn't about
:40:56. > :40:59.save the old Somalia. Was about cutting the cost of travel in
:41:00. > :41:05.future. It is not about bankrolling the company. No one comes out of it
:41:06. > :41:09.well. The management of GTO come out of it badly, as do the Government
:41:10. > :41:17.and the unions come out of it really badly. Would you agree, Duncan? No,
:41:18. > :41:22.I wouldn't criticise the unions in that way. The management were not
:41:23. > :41:30.great. I'm trying to be fair handed. We need this to work. The safety
:41:31. > :41:35.thing was a red herring. I came home to London on Thameslink trade where
:41:36. > :41:38.the drive operates the door and it stops at exactly the same stations
:41:39. > :41:42.on exactly the same line as the Southern train which will have a
:41:43. > :41:47.second person, although they won't operate the doors, though that was
:41:48. > :41:54.unsafe according to the unions, but on Thameslink being operated like
:41:55. > :42:05.that since the 80s, a's a problem. -- it's not a problem. Today is
:42:06. > :42:08.visit my mosque day. Hundred and 50 of them are opening their doors
:42:09. > :42:13.across the country is trying the mystified British Muslims and Islam.
:42:14. > :42:17.It couldn't come at a more timely moment given Donald Trump's
:42:18. > :42:27.immigration ban from predominantly Muslim countries. If Presidents
:42:28. > :42:38.Trump came to one of your mosques, would you welcome him? We would be
:42:39. > :42:42.delighted, because this manner can acquire some knowledge of Islam and
:42:43. > :42:47.the only way he can acquire it is to engage with Muslims. He would say he
:42:48. > :42:51.is worried about Isis and extremism. This is a temporary measure, they
:42:52. > :42:54.would say. If you are president, how would you deal with extremism and
:42:55. > :43:02.threats to America which are genuine? Not by banning people from
:43:03. > :43:09.entering. But by security measures. Banning people means creating more
:43:10. > :43:12.enemies than the friends you require internationally as well. I don't
:43:13. > :43:16.think anybody is happy with what he is done. I will be surprised if it
:43:17. > :43:20.got support from any of the countries, Muslim or otherwise.
:43:21. > :43:24.There are legitimate concerns expressed by our Government here and
:43:25. > :43:33.we would very much hope that we don't trade our values, which we
:43:34. > :43:37.have been the leader of, for centuries just for economic gain. It
:43:38. > :43:47.has been condemned by the Prime Minister. I welcome that. Do you
:43:48. > :43:54.think she could have done more? Yes, and her body language was not very
:43:55. > :43:56.confidence building for Muslims, but we can understand that she has to
:43:57. > :44:02.represent the interests of this country. When we have the vote to
:44:03. > :44:05.leave the EU, there was a lot of talk on immigration. He works in
:44:06. > :44:12.that survey for a long time, deciding on cases. Again, what would
:44:13. > :44:16.you do to reassure people who are concerned about the levels of
:44:17. > :44:22.immigration and the wrong people coming into whether it's from
:44:23. > :44:28.America or Mexico or into this country? When you say wrong people,
:44:29. > :44:33.what has happened in this country to make you suspicious? Or to make you
:44:34. > :44:40.worried, except for generalisations that all Muslims may be engaged in
:44:41. > :44:45.terrorism. Why? Well, that's an extreme. People don't think that.
:44:46. > :44:47.People are concerned they have seen atrocities fed by extreme and
:44:48. > :44:55.radical organisations which we have seen, and in Paris as well. Yes, no
:44:56. > :45:01.doubt about that. But over the years, wherever Muslims have been
:45:02. > :45:05.involved in any criminality, I would not say terrorism or jihad or any of
:45:06. > :45:11.that nonsense is this categorisation. There are criminals
:45:12. > :45:17.in every society and you cannot exclude Muslims from that, there are
:45:18. > :45:22.criminals amongst Christians, and other religious groups. But when it
:45:23. > :45:27.comes to Muslims, it is highlighted points for the media. We get a lot
:45:28. > :45:31.of bad press, which is deserved occasionally, I'm not to defend it.
:45:32. > :45:36.Those acts are not committed in the name of Islam. They are making a
:45:37. > :45:41.statement saying we are all Muslims. I am not the judge to decide whether
:45:42. > :45:46.they are Muslims or not. You only have to read the Islamic Scriptures
:45:47. > :45:55.to understand that it does not condone engaging in violence or
:45:56. > :46:00.terrorism. And your idea of inviting people into the mosques is something
:46:01. > :46:09.you would say is driven by the Scriptures as well? Yes. We want to
:46:10. > :46:13.make sure that people living in this country understand what we are all
:46:14. > :46:23.about, because a lot of nonsense was spouted some years ago about mosques
:46:24. > :46:28.being centres for radicalisation. It wasn't that long ago, I'm in the
:46:29. > :46:37.David Cameron at his speech... Tim Lawton, he was saying that we needed
:46:38. > :46:41.a one nation approach to... More people needed to come forward from
:46:42. > :46:46.the silent majority of Muslim communities and reach the tolerant
:46:47. > :46:54.Islam that was more in tune with British values. Have we lost that
:46:55. > :46:57.thread? No, and can I just say, you put it lightly, Donald Trump is not
:46:58. > :47:04.a little bit of learning, but a heck of a lot of learning. And he should
:47:05. > :47:11.spend half an hour with you to hear your reasonableness. What has
:47:12. > :47:21.happened in the States and we shouldn't be surprised, really, when
:47:22. > :47:24.he would -- when he is doing what he said he would, we would never do
:47:25. > :47:31.that sort of thing here. We have a different approach and we should be
:47:32. > :47:41.proud of being a multicultural but tolerant society. Well, the protests
:47:42. > :47:49.take it a bit further, or is it just posturing, is it a temporary ban and
:47:50. > :47:55.then various things. Him? No, I'm worried about it. We must do in the
:47:56. > :47:57.UK make it clear we see this as a stranger and a natural act and not
:47:58. > :48:05.something we will tolerate in Britain. I am glad we have a common
:48:06. > :48:09.front on that. Would I cancelled the state to visit? No. I don't think I
:48:10. > :48:14.would cancel the visit, I don't see why it has to be a state visit. We
:48:15. > :48:24.should have a business meeting with him. Fortune to speak on the power
:48:25. > :48:28.power. One concern I made to the power. One concern I made to the
:48:29. > :48:33.Home Secretary is that if he comes over, then let us not have any
:48:34. > :48:37.suppression of freedom of speech as we had concerns about whether
:48:38. > :48:41.Chinese president came here and demonstrators were pushed to the
:48:42. > :48:45.back. Let him see what free speech is saying and he may not like it,
:48:46. > :48:51.but he may get that message. I imagine he would call it a small
:48:52. > :48:55.crowd. We shouldn't go out of our way to honour is visit, but make it
:48:56. > :49:00.a business visit and talk about trade on things we need. You are
:49:01. > :49:04.genuinely worried about the way things are moving in the States and
:49:05. > :49:10.in this country as well? No, not in this country. I accept the
:49:11. > :49:13.Government is doing its best, given the constraints we have, economic
:49:14. > :49:19.constraints. He could not have come at a worse time for this country,
:49:20. > :49:23.this mad lunatic in America. But we have to live with him. We have to
:49:24. > :49:28.make sure that he understands British values. I think we should
:49:29. > :49:33.arrange for him to take another visit to your mosques. Said to live.
:49:34. > :49:36.The push for parity of treatment in mental and physical health problems
:49:37. > :49:41.is gathering pace. Although treatment for mental health is often
:49:42. > :49:45.harder to quantify than hospital operations, GP visits and ambulance
:49:46. > :49:48.waiting times, for example. One statistic that speaks sadly and
:49:49. > :49:53.cleared of those who have reached the end of their tether is for
:49:54. > :50:01.suicides. 376 people took their lives across the South of England in
:50:02. > :50:04.2015. Our reporter shows us in the Royal County, they are trying a new
:50:05. > :50:16.way to reduce the share of that number. In 2001, suicide rates in
:50:17. > :50:21.Detroit were steeply rising. With the demise of the motor city's steel
:50:22. > :50:27.and car industry destroyed the local economy and with it, people's lives.
:50:28. > :50:31.Rather than accept the inevitable, doctors set themselves an ambitious
:50:32. > :50:34.target. From now on, they were going to lose nobody to suicide. The
:50:35. > :50:40.they were and for one, two and a they were and for one, two and a
:50:41. > :50:45.half year period, Detroit's hit their target. Lessons learned there
:50:46. > :50:49.are now being picked up here at Boettcher's prospect Park hospital.
:50:50. > :50:56.For us, our board signed up to the project in the middle of last year,
:50:57. > :51:00.so for us, it is about relentlessly pursuing the goal of reducing
:51:01. > :51:05.suicides. For this to work, everyone needs to be involved. The patient's
:51:06. > :51:08.family, friends and GP must all work closely with specialists to make
:51:09. > :51:14.sure everyone knows what to do when someone has suicidal thoughts. It's
:51:15. > :51:17.about involving families and loved ones, making sure their GP is fully
:51:18. > :51:24.aware of the plan and people know where to go for help if they do feel
:51:25. > :51:27.desperate again. Berkshire's towns are very wealthy and everyone here
:51:28. > :51:32.in Reading seems to be either heading out for coffee or retail
:51:33. > :51:34.people walking past me here now will people walking past me here now will
:51:35. > :51:39.suffer for mental illness at one point in their life and last year,
:51:40. > :51:48.68 people in Berkshire decided they could take it no more. We are
:51:49. > :51:51.talking about the stigma of mental health issues today... The radio
:51:52. > :51:56.here is running a campaign to see what it can do to bring the subject
:51:57. > :52:00.out into the open. Angela Ryan is one of three women involved in the
:52:01. > :52:04.radio's brighter Berkshire programme. She was a mental health
:52:05. > :52:13.charity after suffering a breakdown four years ago. In 2013 I went down
:52:14. > :52:16.with psychotic depression. I had hallucinations, I heard of all is, I
:52:17. > :52:20.could feel something to chew my shoulder a lot of the time. If I was
:52:21. > :52:23.driving I would experience road signs leaping out at me and I
:52:24. > :52:27.thought I got messages from the radio and things. A guts to the
:52:28. > :52:35.point where she thought about ending it. I heard a psychotic voice for
:52:36. > :52:39.10-12 hours a day. I would know there was a bus coming at lunchtime
:52:40. > :52:43.and I would negotiate with this for years and if possible, go out and
:52:44. > :52:48.stand in front of the bus. While Angela still hears voices, she has
:52:49. > :52:52.learned to help keep herself safe from the darkness they bring with
:52:53. > :52:55.them. She credits local mental health teams are getting her through
:52:56. > :53:00.the worst of it, but without family and friends, her life would turn out
:53:01. > :53:03.very differently. Mental health is often labelled as Cinderella
:53:04. > :53:11.service, but it is now moving up the political agenda. This week, the
:53:12. > :53:19.Newbury MP did his bit in by ministers questions. Will is shown
:53:20. > :53:23.support for brighter Berkshire? It is important to do this and the fact
:53:24. > :53:28.is the Government has committed to the parity of esteem between mental
:53:29. > :53:32.and physical health. Talking about mental health in the corridors of
:53:33. > :53:36.power is good, but in the real world, the stigma attached to it
:53:37. > :53:40.runs deep. A construction worker may be happy to be at the back problems
:53:41. > :53:44.or their bad leg or whatever, but they'll be considerably less likely
:53:45. > :53:47.to talk about how they are feeling anxious and low and struggling to go
:53:48. > :53:53.to work because of those difficulties. Being healthy body and
:53:54. > :53:57.mind is something we should all aspire to, most of us take too long
:53:58. > :54:03.to open up about what is bothering others, sometimes until it is too
:54:04. > :54:08.late. It's a rarity to talk openly like when this woman had a long
:54:09. > :54:14.relationship and abruptly. There were many times in the first year
:54:15. > :54:19.when I really just did not want to be here. That is how low I got.
:54:20. > :54:25.Later on, I remember my daughter saying I felt like I'd lost my
:54:26. > :54:38.mother and father. That was hard to hear. Duncan Enright, lots of talk,
:54:39. > :54:42.but is there enough money behind it? There is this crisis in funding for
:54:43. > :54:47.the whole of the NHS and that includes mental health. And money
:54:48. > :54:52.seems to have been borrowed from the pot in some places. I'm not sure
:54:53. > :55:01.about that, but I've heard that is the case. You have knock-on effects.
:55:02. > :55:08.The social care crisis feeding the NHS is a crisis and it's a big
:55:09. > :55:11.problem. The Labour Party in Parliament has a focus on mental
:55:12. > :55:16.health issues and we have a shadow minister for it and we are trying to
:55:17. > :55:20.push this as a key issue, because as a country, it is a big challenge to
:55:21. > :55:27.face and we must find solutions and be able to resolve those solutions
:55:28. > :55:33.so we have resilience. With the Prime Minister's big launch at the
:55:34. > :55:38.beginning of the year. And it hasn't happened. Well, she's just starting
:55:39. > :55:42.out on this I suppose. She wants to reduce it by 2021. That is not quite
:55:43. > :55:56.the same zero tolerance as we saw in Detroit. Why not aim higher? We must
:55:57. > :56:04.be ambitious. Mental health is at last coming out of the shadows.
:56:05. > :56:14.their and MPs as well. Things have their and MPs as well. Things have
:56:15. > :56:18.changed a lot over the last decade or so, but certainly, mental health
:56:19. > :56:22.retains -- remains as Cinderella service in the NHS and you are
:56:23. > :56:27.right, I'm afraid, that extra funding has gone into mental health,
:56:28. > :56:31.1.25 million a couple of years ago, but it is not getting through to the
:56:32. > :56:39.sharp end. The service is not join up. I check the all party group for
:56:40. > :56:45.perinatal mental health and one in six women will suffer from one form
:56:46. > :56:50.or another of that and if you have depression or other mental
:56:51. > :56:55.illnesses, your inability to form an attachment with your child -- your
:56:56. > :56:59.ability to make an attachment with your child diminishes. The teenager
:57:00. > :57:03.suffering from depression has a 95% chance that his or her mother
:57:04. > :57:06.suffered from depression or mental illness during pregnancy or soon
:57:07. > :57:12.after. We have two attacking much earlier. Whinny money to break that
:57:13. > :57:20.chain. And whether it is not enough money for the NHS generally, is a
:57:21. > :57:24.false economy not to do it. If we have our attention and resources at
:57:25. > :57:30.the beginning to make sure new mothers are happy during pregnancy
:57:31. > :57:33.with proper care and support... You do press this in the Conservative
:57:34. > :57:37.Party, the most of your party is in. They said NHS could be more
:57:38. > :57:44.efficient and has as much money as it asked for. On mental illness
:57:45. > :57:47.there has been an increase in people's awareness that mental
:57:48. > :57:51.health is not a fringe issue, because it is so linked with
:57:52. > :57:57.physical health problems as well. If you do not make sure people have got
:57:58. > :58:01.settled, balanced minds, then I combusted to be productive at work
:58:02. > :58:06.and have stable families and do well at school will be contributing
:58:07. > :58:09.members of society is diminished. Why are we not concentrating more in
:58:10. > :58:14.the early days to get it right? It is not rocket science. It is not,
:58:15. > :58:26.but it does take more money. Aid does. We look resilience in the
:58:27. > :58:29.school I'm a governor for, but it is almost an epidemic of anxiety and
:58:30. > :58:35.stress and is kind of issues need the resources to tackle it. Now for
:58:36. > :58:49.60 seconds. Sorry's plans for a 15% rise in
:58:50. > :58:52.council tax took a step forward when conservatives approved the increase
:58:53. > :58:58.at a cabinet meeting. For council votes next we will trigger a
:58:59. > :59:01.referendum in the county. Owners of stables, kennels and captors have
:59:02. > :59:05.been hard-hit by business rate revaluation is which are based land
:59:06. > :59:11.area and it has quadrupled some of their bills. The Government want to
:59:12. > :59:14.take everything I earn. These villages earned half million pounds
:59:15. > :59:22.in a month and now own their own pub. We can come here, drink, chats
:59:23. > :59:26.with our friends. Ed Vaizey told the Commons that no minister warned him
:59:27. > :59:32.that Britain intends to pull out of this research group. We have been
:59:33. > :59:38.inundated with people literally believe they are losing their jobs.
:59:39. > :59:43.2000 apprentices on offer at this careers fair in Oxford. Many firms
:59:44. > :59:51.as then they just can't find staff with the skills they need. That's
:59:52. > :00:07.will get worse when we leave the EU. Won't it? Yes, why do we decide to
:00:08. > :00:20.leave. How will you replace that EU workers? Bred thereof pieces of
:00:21. > :00:24.legislation that are not necessarily what people voted to leave for. Is
:00:25. > :00:30.the skills shortage being well handled? There is a skills shortage
:00:31. > :00:35.and many the best people to come from Europe or other parts of the
:00:36. > :00:39.world, but we also need to produce them ourselves. China and India each
:00:40. > :00:44.alone will this year produced a million graduates in engineer
:00:45. > :00:48.related subjects. They are producing things which we buy over here. We
:00:49. > :00:52.need more of our kids doing those sorts of subjects and been able to
:00:53. > :01:00.give a skills to businesses which will employ more. We are getting
:01:01. > :01:15.there. They're very good in Germany and France. Anyway. That is all for
:01:16. > :01:21.this week. Thank you to my guests. Next week, we will be looking at the
:01:22. > :01:24.devolution proposals, this time for Dorset. Everywhere it seems thinking
:01:25. > :01:25.about transferring power, but it isn't happening. Now, back to
:01:26. > :01:33.London. programme at another time an airport
:01:34. > :01:34.expansion, but thank you to both of you for being here. Back to you,
:01:35. > :01:40.Andrew. Will the Government's plan
:01:41. > :01:43.to boost house-building Could a handful of Conservative
:01:44. > :01:46.MPs cause problems for And what is President
:01:47. > :02:05.Trump going to do next? You have been following the genesis
:02:06. > :02:10.of this housing white paper. What do you make of it? I think it will be
:02:11. > :02:16.quite spectacular, pretty radical stuff. We heard bits about beating
:02:17. > :02:19.up on developers. I understand it will be a whack, walk, covering
:02:20. > :02:25.every single problem with housing supply and trying to solve it. Which
:02:26. > :02:29.means bad news if you are a huge fan of the green belt, because they will
:02:30. > :02:32.go round that the other way by forcing large quotas on councils are
:02:33. > :02:38.making it down to councils where they build. If you fill up your
:02:39. > :02:41.brown space in towns they will have to trigger the exceptional
:02:42. > :02:44.circumstances bit of the bill to beat on green belts. Beating up
:02:45. > :02:49.developers, opening up the market for renters across the board. And
:02:50. > :02:54.Theresa May, one of the most defining thing she could do on the
:02:55. > :02:59.domestic agenda. I am not as excited as Tom about this. I look back to
:03:00. > :03:05.2004, do you remember the Kate Barker report? Successive
:03:06. > :03:12.governments, successive prime ministers have been promising to
:03:13. > :03:15.address the housing shortage. In 2004 Kate Barker recommended
:03:16. > :03:20.hundreds of thousands new homes. Gordon Brown talked about 3 million
:03:21. > :03:25.new homes by 2020 in 2007. It never happens. The reason is at the end of
:03:26. > :03:28.the day this is local politics, local councillors need to keep their
:03:29. > :03:30.seats and they won't keep their seats if there are hugely
:03:31. > :03:35.controversial developments locally that they support. Yes, the
:03:36. > :03:41.government can and are proposing to overrule councils that don't back
:03:42. > :03:44.local developments, but they may find themselves completely inundated
:03:45. > :03:49.with those cases. I think that is the whole point of it, to take on
:03:50. > :03:57.those NIMBY often Tory councils and force them to build. I can't think
:03:58. > :04:01.of a better defining issue for Theresa May than sticking one in the
:04:02. > :04:07.eye of some quite well off half Tory countryside councils. The government
:04:08. > :04:11.gives councils a quota of homes they have to fill, if they don't have to
:04:12. > :04:15.fill that all run out overland to fill the quota, the government then
:04:16. > :04:19.comes in and tells them they have to built on the green belt? How is that
:04:20. > :04:22.going to work? At the moment the green belt is absolutely sacrosanct
:04:23. > :04:30.in British politics. They'll have to do some work on educating people on
:04:31. > :04:35.what green belts means. Potato farms, golf courses... At the moment
:04:36. > :04:39.the idea people have of the green belt being verdant fields needs to
:04:40. > :04:43.be dismantled. You are right. I agree with Tom, 11 million people in
:04:44. > :04:46.the private rental sector in the UK. In the last election more voted
:04:47. > :04:51.Labour than conservative. This is an area where Theresa May would look to
:04:52. > :04:55.expand her vote. The problem has always been, the same problem we
:04:56. > :04:59.have with pension policy and why pensioners have done better than
:05:00. > :05:05.working families in recent years. They are older and they vote more
:05:06. > :05:12.and anything to the detriment of older people. I wonder how they will
:05:13. > :05:15.get private money to come in on anything like this go they would
:05:16. > :05:21.need to have a huge expansion? There is a huge amount of speculation and
:05:22. > :05:24.one of the thing that locks up the system as you have people buying
:05:25. > :05:28.land, taking out a stake of land in the hope that one point it may at
:05:29. > :05:33.some point free up. At the end of the day, unless you have councils
:05:34. > :05:37.far more willing to quickly fast track these applications, which they
:05:38. > :05:42.won't for the reason I said before, it's a very long-term investment. Ed
:05:43. > :05:47.Miliband proposed three-year leases in which the rent could only go up
:05:48. > :05:51.by an agreed formula, probably the three years to give the young
:05:52. > :05:56.families a certain stability over that period. He had a use it or lose
:05:57. > :06:00.it rules for planning development, if you don't use it you lose the
:06:01. > :06:05.planning rights. Somebody else gets it. The Tories disparaged that at
:06:06. > :06:10.the time. This is at the centre of their policy now.
:06:11. > :06:13.This is probably item number four of Ed Miliband's policy book Theresa
:06:14. > :06:18.May has wholesale pinched in the last six months or so. Why not? I
:06:19. > :06:23.think if you look at the change in mood across housing and planning
:06:24. > :06:28.over the last 5-6 years, it used to be an issue very much of green belt
:06:29. > :06:31.versus London planners. Now you have grandparents living in houses in the
:06:32. > :06:34.countryside, knowing their grandchildren can't get on the
:06:35. > :06:40.housing ladder any longer. Maybe a bit more intervention in the market,
:06:41. > :06:43.tougher on renting conditions, maybe that is exactly what the country
:06:44. > :06:48.needs. Will they meet the 1 million target? It would be a defiance of
:06:49. > :06:54.every political thing that has happened in the last ten years. I
:06:55. > :06:56.think Tom is right, if there is only one difference between Theresa May
:06:57. > :07:01.and David Cameron it's the willingness of the state to
:07:02. > :07:06.intervene. When Ed Miliband said that he was seen as communism, but
:07:07. > :07:13.Theresa May can get away with it. How serious is this talk of a couple
:07:14. > :07:19.of dozen Tories who were very loyal over voting for the principle of
:07:20. > :07:22.Article 50 but may now be tempted to vote for some amendments to Article
:07:23. > :07:27.50 legislation that they would find quite attractive? I think that
:07:28. > :07:33.threat has certainly been taken seriously by levers. I spoke to the
:07:34. > :07:37.campaign group Leaves Means Leave last night. The figure they
:07:38. > :07:40.mentioned was up to 20 remaining Tories. That sounds a lot to me but
:07:41. > :07:45.that is what they are concerned about and those Tories would come
:07:46. > :07:50.together with Labour and the SNP to vote for that amendment. Although
:07:51. > :07:54.that amendment sounds rather nice and democratic, actually in the eyes
:07:55. > :07:58.of many levers that is a wrecking amendment. Because what you are
:07:59. > :08:02.doing is giving Parliament a sort of veto over whatever deal Theresa May
:08:03. > :08:06.brings back. What they want is the vote to be before that deal is
:08:07. > :08:11.finalised. It isn't necessarily the case that if Parliament decided they
:08:12. > :08:15.didn't like that deal we would just go to WTO, we would fall out of the
:08:16. > :08:21.European Union. There are mixed views as to whether we might remain
:08:22. > :08:25.in and things could be extended. My understanding is the people making
:08:26. > :08:30.the amendments, they won any deal that is done to be brought to
:08:31. > :08:36.Parliament in time, so that if Parliament fancies it it's done, but
:08:37. > :08:39.if it does and it doesn't just mean go to WTO rules. There will be time
:08:40. > :08:44.to go back, renegotiate or think again? The question is where it puts
:08:45. > :08:52.Britain's negotiating hand. Nine of the options... Once we trigger
:08:53. > :08:56.Article 50 the two negotiation begins on the power switches to
:08:57. > :08:59.Europe. They can run out the clock and it will be worse for us than
:09:00. > :09:03.them. I don't think either option is particularly appealing. I think what
:09:04. > :09:07.seems like a rather Serena week for Article 50 this week isn't going to
:09:08. > :09:11.be reflective of what will happen next. The way the government's
:09:12. > :09:16.position is at the moment, if at the end the only choice Parliament has
:09:17. > :09:19.is to vote for the deal or crash out on WTO rules, then even the
:09:20. > :09:23.remainder is going to vote for the deal even if they don't like it,
:09:24. > :09:30.because they would regard crashing out as the worst of all possible
:09:31. > :09:34.results. Possibly. It will be a great game of bluff if Theresa May
:09:35. > :09:36.fights off any of these amendments on Wednesday and gets a
:09:37. > :09:40.straightforward deal or no Deal vote. I have a funny feeling this
:09:41. > :09:43.amendment, if it's chosen, we must remember because we don't know if
:09:44. > :09:50.they will choose this amendment, if it does go to a vote on Wednesday it
:09:51. > :09:52.will be very tight indeed. Remember, one final thing Theresa May can do
:09:53. > :09:59.if she gets Parliament voting against, as Isabel would have it,
:10:00. > :10:02.she could try to get a new parliament and go for a general
:10:03. > :10:08.election. And probably get a huge majority to do so. The Lords, it
:10:09. > :10:19.goes there after the February recess. They are very pro-Europe,
:10:20. > :10:24.but does their instinct for self-preservation override that? I
:10:25. > :10:28.think that is it. A Tory Lord said this morning I will vote to block it
:10:29. > :10:33.on a conscience measure, but you have the likes of Bill Cash, veteran
:10:34. > :10:37.Eurosceptics, suddenly converted to the Lords reform saying is an
:10:38. > :10:40.outrage. I doubt they will vote for their own demise, to hasten their
:10:41. > :10:48.own demise by blocking it. What did you make of Doctor Gorka smart
:10:49. > :10:52.fascinating. Cut from the same cloth as his boss. I thought it was
:10:53. > :10:55.extraordinary listening to him, saying everything is going dutifully
:10:56. > :11:00.to plan. But at the end of the day, what they are doing is what people
:11:01. > :11:04.in America voted for Trump to do. If you look at Lord Ashcroft's polling
:11:05. > :11:08.on why America voted for Trump, they went into this with their eyes wide
:11:09. > :11:14.open. One of the top fears among American voters, particularly
:11:15. > :11:17.Republican leading ones was America's immigration policy is or
:11:18. > :11:21.could be letting in terror arrests. As far as he is concerned, he is
:11:22. > :11:25.doing what he was elected to do. This whole year is turning into a
:11:26. > :11:28.wonderful year long lecture series on how democracy works at a
:11:29. > :11:31.fundamental level. I'm not sure anyone wanted it but it's what we've
:11:32. > :11:37.got. This same in the way we've been talking about direct democracy and
:11:38. > :11:41.Parliamentary democracy. The same is happening in America between
:11:42. > :11:45.executive and judicial branches. We are seeing the limits of
:11:46. > :11:49.presidential power. Regardless of the fact that people voted for Trump
:11:50. > :11:55.they voted for senators. The judge who blocks this was appointed by
:11:56. > :11:59.George W Bush. So-called Judge Eckert Mac so-called George W Bush!
:12:00. > :12:03.It's fascinating we're having all these conversations now that I never
:12:04. > :12:07.bought five years ago we would be having at such a fundamental level.
:12:08. > :12:12.Has the media yet worked out how to cover the Trump administration or
:12:13. > :12:17.has he got us behaving like headless chickens? He says something
:12:18. > :12:22.incendiary and we all run over to do that and when you pick it off it
:12:23. > :12:25.turns out not to be as incendiary as we thought? And then back doing
:12:26. > :12:31.something and we all rush over there. Is he making fools of us? Is
:12:32. > :12:36.exactly what he did in the election campaign. So many quick and fast
:12:37. > :12:39.outrageous comments frontrunner on a daily basis, no one single one of
:12:40. > :12:43.them had full news cycle time to be pored over and examined. I think
:12:44. > :12:48.there is a problem with this. Although he keeps the upper hand,
:12:49. > :12:53.keeps the agenda and keeps on the populist ground, the problem is it
:12:54. > :12:56.easy to campaign like that. If you are governing in a state of
:12:57. > :12:59.semi-hysteria, I wonder how long the American public will be comfortable
:13:00. > :13:02.with that. They don't really want their government to be swirling
:13:03. > :13:06.chaos all the time, as fascinating as it might be on TV. They will be
:13:07. > :13:12.exhausted by it, I already am. I have been interviewing White House
:13:13. > :13:16.administration official since 1976 and that is the first time someone
:13:17. > :13:18.hasn't given me a straight answer on America supporting the EU. That is a
:13:19. > :13:20.different world. Jo Coburn will be on BBC Two
:13:21. > :13:23.tomorrow at midday with the Daily Politics -
:13:24. > :13:26.and I'll be back here Remember, if it's Sunday -
:13:27. > :14:05.it's the Sunday Politics. TV: He's not your father.
:14:06. > :14:18.WOMAN GASPS so why not pay your TV licence in
:14:19. > :14:31.weekly instalments, too?