:00:37. > :00:42.It's Sunday Morning and this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:43. > :00:44.The Chancellor says that to embark on a spending spree
:00:45. > :00:47.in Wednesday's Budget would be "reckless".
:00:48. > :00:50.But will there be more money for social care and to ease
:00:51. > :00:56.The UK terror threat is currently severe,
:00:57. > :00:58.but where is that threat coming from?
:00:59. > :01:01.We have the detailed picture from a vast new study of every
:01:02. > :01:05.Islamist related terrorist offence committed over the last two decades.
:01:06. > :01:11.What can we learn from these offences to thwart future attacks?
:01:12. > :01:13.The government was defeated in the Lords on its
:01:14. > :01:18.We'll ask the Leader of the House of Commons what he'll do if peers
:01:19. > :01:20.In the south: Local Enterprise Partnerships, or Leps.
:01:21. > :01:24.They spend millions of our money - do we have any idea on what?
:01:25. > :01:37.all sure is another are on how they spend it?
:01:38. > :01:40.All that coming up in the next hour and a quarter.
:01:41. > :01:43.Now, some of you might have read that intruders managed
:01:44. > :01:46.to get into the BBC news studios this weekend.
:01:47. > :01:49.Well three of them appear not to have been ejected yet,
:01:50. > :01:52.so we might as well make use of them as our political panel.
:01:53. > :01:55.Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott and Steve Richards.
:01:56. > :02:00.They'll be tweeting throughout the programme.
:02:01. > :02:06.Philip Hammond will deliver his second financial
:02:07. > :02:08.statement as Chancellor and the last Spring Budget
:02:09. > :02:11.for a while at least - they are moving to the Autumn
:02:12. > :02:15.There's been pressure on him to find more money
:02:16. > :02:17.for the Health Service, social care, schools funding,
:02:18. > :02:22.But this morning the Chancellor insisted that he will not be
:02:23. > :02:24.using the proceeds of better than expected tax receipts to embark
:02:25. > :02:36.What is being speculated on is whether we might not have borrowed
:02:37. > :02:43.quite as much as we were forecast to borrow. You will see the numbers on
:02:44. > :02:47.Wednesday. But if your bank increases your credit card limit, I
:02:48. > :02:49.do not think you feel obliged to go out and spent every last penny of it
:02:50. > :03:01.He is moving the budget to the autumn, he told us that in his
:03:02. > :03:07.statement, so maybe on Wednesday it will be like a spring statement
:03:08. > :03:11.rather than a full-blown budget. Tinkering pre-Brexit and in November
:03:12. > :03:14.he will have a more clear idea of the impact of Brexit and I suspect
:03:15. > :03:20.that will be the bigger event than this one. It looks as if there will
:03:21. > :03:24.be a bit of money here and there, small amounts, not enough in my
:03:25. > :03:30.view, for social care and so on, possibly a review of social care
:03:31. > :03:34.policy. A familiar device which rarely get anywhere. I think he has
:03:35. > :03:39.got a bit more space to do more if he wanted to do now because of the
:03:40. > :03:44.politics. They are miles ahead in the polls, so he could do more, but
:03:45. > :03:50.it is not in his character, he is cautious. So he keeps his powder dry
:03:51. > :03:57.on most things, he does some things, but he keeps it dry until November.
:03:58. > :04:01.But also, as Steve says, he will know just how strong the economy has
:04:02. > :04:04.been this year by November and whether he needs to do some pump
:04:05. > :04:11.priming or whether everything is fine. He said it is too early to
:04:12. > :04:15.make those sorts of judgments now. What is striking is the amount of
:04:16. > :04:20.concern there is an Number ten and in the Treasury about the tone of
:04:21. > :04:23.this budget, so less about the actual figures and more about what
:04:24. > :04:29.message this is sending out to the rest of the world. I think some
:04:30. > :04:33.senior MPs are calling it a kind of treading water budget and Phil
:04:34. > :04:37.Hammond has got quite a difficult act to perform because he is
:04:38. > :04:44.instinctively rather cautious, or very cautious, and instinctively
:04:45. > :04:48.slightly gloomy about Brexit. He wanted to remain. But he does not
:04:49. > :04:53.want this budget to sounded downbeat and he will be mauled if he makes it
:04:54. > :04:57.sound downbeat, so he has to inject a little bit of optimism and we may
:04:58. > :05:03.see that in the infrastructure spending plans. He has got some room
:05:04. > :05:06.to manoeuvre. The deficit by the financial year ending in April we
:05:07. > :05:11.now know will not be as big as the OBR told us only three and a half
:05:12. > :05:16.months ago that it would be. They added 12 billion on and they may
:05:17. > :05:19.take most of that off again. He is under pressure from his own side to
:05:20. > :05:24.do something on social care and business rates and I bet some Tory
:05:25. > :05:29.backbenchers would not mind a little bit more money for the NHS as well.
:05:30. > :05:36.He is on a huge pressure to do a whole lot on a whole load, not just
:05:37. > :05:42.social care. There is also how on earth do we pay for so many old
:05:43. > :05:47.people? There is the NHS, defence spending, everything. But his words
:05:48. > :05:52.this morning, which is I am not going to spend potentially an extra
:05:53. > :05:57.30 billion I might have by 2020 because of improved economic growth
:05:58. > :06:03.was interesting. You need to hold something back because Brexit might
:06:04. > :06:09.go back and he was a bit of a remain campaign person. If you think
:06:10. > :06:13.Britain is going to curl up into a corner and hideaway licking its
:06:14. > :06:17.wounds, you have got another think coming. That 30 billion he might
:06:18. > :06:23.have extra in his pocket could be worth deploying on building up
:06:24. > :06:29.Britain with huge tax cuts in case there is no deal, a war chest if you
:06:30. > :06:34.like. He will have more than 27 billion. He may decide 27 billion in
:06:35. > :06:38.the statement, the margin by which he tries to get the structural
:06:39. > :06:43.deficit down, he will still have 27 billion. If the receipts are better
:06:44. > :06:50.than they are forecast, some people are saying he will have a war chest
:06:51. > :06:56.of 60 billion. That money, as Mr Osborne found out, can disappear. He
:06:57. > :07:02.clearly is planning not to go on a spending spree this Wednesday. It is
:07:03. > :07:07.interesting in the FTB and the day, David Laws who was chief Secretary
:07:08. > :07:10.for five minutes, was also enthusiastic about the original
:07:11. > :07:14.George Osborne austerity programme and he said, we have reached the
:07:15. > :07:18.limits to what is socially possible with this and a consensus is
:07:19. > :07:23.beginning to emerge that he will have to spend more money than he
:07:24. > :07:28.plans to this Wednesday. This is not just from Labour MPs, but from a lot
:07:29. > :07:32.of Conservative MPs as well. People will wonder when this austerity will
:07:33. > :07:34.end because it seems to be going on for ever. We will have more on the
:07:35. > :07:38.budget later in the programme. Now, the government was defeated
:07:39. > :07:40.last week in the House of Lords. Peers amended the bill that
:07:41. > :07:43.will allow Theresa May to trigger Brexit to guarantee the rights of EU
:07:44. > :07:46.nationals currently in the UK. The government says it will remove
:07:47. > :07:49.the amendment when the bill returns But today a report from
:07:50. > :07:55.the Common's Brexit committee also calls for the Government to make
:07:56. > :07:58.a unilateral decision to safeguard the rights of EU
:07:59. > :08:03.nationals living here. If the worst happened,
:08:04. > :08:06.are we actually going to say to 3 million Europeans here,
:08:07. > :08:10.who are nurses, doctors, serving us tea and coffee in restaurants,
:08:11. > :08:14.giving lectures at Leeds University, picking and processing vegetables,
:08:15. > :08:16."Right, off you go"? No, of course we are not
:08:17. > :08:19.going to say that. So, why not end the
:08:20. > :08:21.uncertainty for them now? will help to create the climate
:08:22. > :08:25.which will ensure everyone gets to say because that's
:08:26. > :08:35.what all of us want. That is why we have unanimously
:08:36. > :08:42.agreed this recommendation that the government should make unilateral
:08:43. > :08:45.decision to say to EU citizens here, yes, you can stay, because we think
:08:46. > :08:46.that is the right and fair thing to do.
:08:47. > :08:49.And we're joined now from Buckinghamshire by the leader
:08:50. > :08:53.of the House of Commons, David Lidington.
:08:54. > :08:58.Welcome back to the programme. The House of Lords has amended the
:08:59. > :09:02.Article 50 bill to allow the unilateral acceptance of EU
:09:03. > :09:05.nationals' right to remain in the UK. Is it still the government was
:09:06. > :09:13.my intention to remove that amendment in the comments? We have
:09:14. > :09:16.always been clear that we think this bill is very straightforward, it
:09:17. > :09:21.does nothing else except give the Prime Minister the authority that
:09:22. > :09:25.the courts insist upon to start the Article 50 process of negotiating
:09:26. > :09:33.with the other 27 EU countries. On the particular issue of EU citizens
:09:34. > :09:39.here and British citizens overseas, the PM did suggest that the December
:09:40. > :09:45.European summit last year that we do a pre-negotiation agreement on this.
:09:46. > :09:49.That was not acceptable to all of the other 27 because they took the
:09:50. > :09:53.view that you cannot have any kind of negotiation and to Article 50 has
:09:54. > :09:58.been triggered. That is where we are. I hope with goodwill and
:09:59. > :10:03.national self interest on all sides we can tackle this is right that the
:10:04. > :10:06.start of those negotiations. But it is not just the Lords. We have now
:10:07. > :10:12.got the cross-party Commons Brexit committee saying you should now make
:10:13. > :10:20.the unilateral decision to safeguard the rights of EU nationals in the
:10:21. > :10:26.UK. Even Michael go, Peter Lilley, John Whittington, agree. So why are
:10:27. > :10:30.you so stubborn on this issue? I think this is a complex issue that
:10:31. > :10:36.goes beyond the rise of presidents, but about things like the rights of
:10:37. > :10:44.access to health care, to pension ratings and benefits and so on...
:10:45. > :10:48.But you could settle back. It is also, Andrew, because you have got
:10:49. > :10:52.to look at it from the point of view of the British citizens, well over 1
:10:53. > :10:57.million living elsewhere in Europe. If we make the unilateral gesture,
:10:58. > :11:01.it might make us feel good for Britain and it would help in the
:11:02. > :11:07.short term those EU citizens who are here, but you have got those British
:11:08. > :11:11.citizens overseas who would then be potential bargaining chips in the
:11:12. > :11:17.hands of any of the 27 other governments. We do not know who will
:11:18. > :11:22.be in office during the negotiations and they may have completely
:11:23. > :11:25.extraneous reasons to hold up the agreement on the rights of British
:11:26. > :11:30.citizens. The sensible way to deal with this is 28 mature democracies
:11:31. > :11:33.getting around the table starting the negotiations and to agree to
:11:34. > :11:40.something that is fair to all sides and is reciprocal. What countries
:11:41. > :11:47.might take on UK nationals living in the EU? What countries are you
:11:48. > :11:52.frightened of? The one thing that I know from my own experience in the
:11:53. > :11:57.past of being involved in European negotiations is that issues come up
:11:58. > :12:04.that maybe have nothing to do with British nationals, but another issue
:12:05. > :12:08.that matters a huge amount to a particular government, it may not be
:12:09. > :12:13.a government yet in office, and they decide we can get something out of
:12:14. > :12:17.this, so let's hold up the agreement on British citizens until the
:12:18. > :12:22.British move in the direction we want on issue X. I hope it does not
:12:23. > :12:27.come to that. I think the messages I have had from EU ambassadors in
:12:28. > :12:32.London and from those it my former Europe colleague ministers is that
:12:33. > :12:36.we want this to be a done deal as quickly as possible. That is the
:12:37. > :12:42.British Government's very clear intention. We hope that we can get a
:12:43. > :12:46.reciprocal deal agreed before the Article 50 process. That was not
:12:47. > :12:51.possible. I understand that, you have said that already. But even if
:12:52. > :12:56.there is no reciprocal deal being done, is it really credible that EU
:12:57. > :13:02.nationals already here would lose their right to live and work and
:13:03. > :13:10.face deportation? You know that is not credible, that will not happen.
:13:11. > :13:15.We have already under our own system law whereby some people who have
:13:16. > :13:19.been lawfully resident and working here for five years can apply for
:13:20. > :13:23.permanent residency, but it is not just about residents. It is about
:13:24. > :13:27.whether residency carries with it certain rights of access to health
:13:28. > :13:35.care. I understand that, but have made this point. But the point is
:13:36. > :13:40.the right to live and work here that worries them at the moment. The Home
:13:41. > :13:46.Secretary has said there can be no change in their status without a
:13:47. > :13:48.vote in parliament. Could you ever imagine the British Parliament
:13:49. > :13:55.voting to remove their right to live and work here? I think the British
:13:56. > :14:03.Parliament will want to be very fair to EU citizens, as Hilary Benn and
:14:04. > :14:06.others rightly say they have been overwhelmingly been here working
:14:07. > :14:10.hard and paying taxes and contributing to our society. They
:14:11. > :14:15.were equally want to make sure there is a fair deal for our own citizens,
:14:16. > :14:18.more than a million, elsewhere in Europe. You cannot disentangle the
:14:19. > :14:24.issue of residence from those things that go with residents. Is the
:14:25. > :14:28.Article 50 timetabled to be triggered before the end of this
:14:29. > :14:34.month, is it threatened by these amendments in the Lords? I sincerely
:14:35. > :14:39.hope not because the House of Lords is a perfectly respectable
:14:40. > :14:42.constitutional role to look again at bills sent up by the House of
:14:43. > :14:49.commons. But they also have understood traditionally that as an
:14:50. > :14:53.unelected house they have to give primacy to the elected Commons at
:14:54. > :14:59.the end of the day. In this case it is not just the elected Commons that
:15:00. > :15:07.sent the bill to be amended, but the referendum that lies behind that. It
:15:08. > :15:09.is not possible? We are confident we can get Article 50 triggered by the
:15:10. > :15:17.end of the month. One of the other Lords amendments
:15:18. > :15:21.will be to have a meaningful vote on the Brexit deal when it is done at
:15:22. > :15:26.the end of the process, what is your view on that? What would you
:15:27. > :15:31.understand by a meaningful vote? The Government has already said there is
:15:32. > :15:37.going to be a meaningful vote at the end of the process. What do you mean
:15:38. > :15:41.by a meaningful vote? The parliament will get the opportunity to vote on
:15:42. > :15:44.the deal before it finishes the EU level process of going to
:15:45. > :15:50.consideration by the European Parliament. Parliament will be given
:15:51. > :15:57.a choice, as I understand, for either a vote for the deal you have
:15:58. > :16:02.negotiated or we leave on WTO rules and crash out anyway, is that what
:16:03. > :16:06.you mean by a meaningful choice? Parliament will get the choice to
:16:07. > :16:11.vote on the deal, but I think you have put your finger on the problem
:16:12. > :16:18.with trying to write something into the bill because any idea that the
:16:19. > :16:25.PM's freedom to negotiate is limited, any idea that if the EU 27
:16:26. > :16:29.were to play hardball, that somehow that means parliament would take
:16:30. > :16:32.fright, reverse the referendum verdict and set aside the views of
:16:33. > :16:37.the British people, that would almost guarantee that it would be
:16:38. > :16:43.much more difficult to get the sort of ambitious mutually beneficial
:16:44. > :16:47.deal for us and the EU 27. Your idea of a meaningful vote in parliament
:16:48. > :16:52.is the choices either to vote to accept this deal or we leave anyway,
:16:53. > :16:59.that is your idea of a meaningful vote. The Article 50 process is
:17:00. > :17:04.straightforward. There is the position of both parties in the
:17:05. > :17:13.recent Supreme Court case that the Article 50 process once triggered is
:17:14. > :17:18.irrevocable. That is in the EU Treaty already but we are saying
:17:19. > :17:25.very clearly that Parliament will get that right to debate and vote. I
:17:26. > :17:29.think the problem with what some in the House of Lords are proposing, I
:17:30. > :17:34.hope it is not a majority, is that the amendments they would seek to
:17:35. > :17:37.insert would tie the Prime Minister's hands, limit and
:17:38. > :17:39.negotiating freedom and put her in a more difficult position to negotiate
:17:40. > :17:44.on behalf of this country than should be the case. One year ago you
:17:45. > :17:49.said it could take six to eight years to agree a free-trade deal
:17:50. > :17:55.with the EU. Now you think you can do it in two, what's changed your
:17:56. > :18:09.mind? There is a very strong passionate supporter of Remain, as
:18:10. > :18:13.you know. I hope very much we are able to conclude not just the terms
:18:14. > :18:18.of the exit deal but the agreement that we are seeking on the long-term
:18:19. > :18:24.trade relationship... I understand that, but I'm trying to work out,
:18:25. > :18:29.what makes you think you can do it in two years when only a year ago
:18:30. > :18:35.you said it would take up to wait? The referendum clearly makes a big
:18:36. > :18:41.difference, and I think that there is an understanding amongst real the
:18:42. > :18:48.other 27 governments now that it is in everybody's interests to sort
:18:49. > :18:53.this shared challenge out of negotiating a new relationship
:18:54. > :18:56.between the EU 27 and the UK because European countries, those in and
:18:57. > :19:05.those who will be out of the EU, share the need to face up to massive
:19:06. > :19:08.challenges like terrorism and technological change. All of that
:19:09. > :19:11.was pretty obvious one year ago but we will see what happens. Thank you,
:19:12. > :19:13.David Lidington. Now, the Sunday Politics has had
:19:14. > :19:16.sight of a major new report The thousand-page study,
:19:17. > :19:21.which researchers say is the most comprehensive ever produced,
:19:22. > :19:27.analyses all 269 Islamist telated terrorist offences
:19:28. > :19:30.committed between 1998-2015. Most planned attacks were,
:19:31. > :19:31.thankfully, thwarted, but what can we learn
:19:32. > :19:33.from those offences? For the police and the intelligence
:19:34. > :19:43.agencies to fight terror, Researchers at the security think
:19:44. > :19:50.tank The Henry Jackson Society gave us early access to their huge
:19:51. > :20:00.new report which analyses every Islamism related attack
:20:01. > :20:02.and prosecution in the UK since 1998, that's 269 cases
:20:03. > :20:06.involving 253 perpetrators. With issues as sensitive
:20:07. > :20:09.as counterterrorism and counter radicalisation, it is really
:20:10. > :20:11.important to have an evidence base from which you draw
:20:12. > :20:13.policy and policing, This isn't my opinion,
:20:14. > :20:17.this the facts. This chart shows the number
:20:18. > :20:20.of cases each year combined with a small number
:20:21. > :20:24.of successful suicide attacks. Notice the peak in the middle
:20:25. > :20:27.of the last decade around the time of the 7/7 bombings
:20:28. > :20:30.in London in 2005. Offences tailed off,
:20:31. > :20:34.before rising again from 2010, when a three-year period accounted
:20:35. > :20:37.for a third of all the terrorism cases since the researchers
:20:38. > :20:42.started counting. What we are seeing is a combination
:20:43. > :20:46.of both more offending, in terms of the threat increasing,
:20:47. > :20:49.we know that from the security services and police statements,
:20:50. > :20:51.but also I believe we are getting more efficient in terms
:20:52. > :20:54.of our policing and we are actually A third of people were found to have
:20:55. > :21:02.facilitated terrorism, that's providing encouragement,
:21:03. > :21:06.documents, money. About 18% of people
:21:07. > :21:08.were aspirational terrorists, 12% of convictions were related
:21:09. > :21:15.to travel, to training And 37% of people were convicted
:21:16. > :21:23.of planning attacks, although the methods have
:21:24. > :21:27.changed over time. Five or six years ago,
:21:28. > :21:31.we saw lots of people planning or attempting pipe bombs and most
:21:32. > :21:34.of the time they had Inspire magazine in their possession,
:21:35. > :21:37.that's a magazine, an Al-Qaeda English-language online
:21:38. > :21:39.magazine that had specific More recently we have seen
:21:40. > :21:44.Islamic State encouraging people to engage in lower tech knife
:21:45. > :21:47.beheading, stabbings attacks and I think that's why we have
:21:48. > :21:49.seen that more recently. Shasta Khan plotted with her
:21:50. > :21:54.husband to bomb the Jewish In 2012 she received
:21:55. > :21:59.an eight-year prison sentence. She's one of an increasing
:22:00. > :22:03.number of women convicted of an Islamism related offence
:22:04. > :22:06.although it is still overwhelmingly a crime carried out
:22:07. > :22:09.by men in their 20s. Despite fears of foreign terrorists,
:22:10. > :22:12.a report says the vast Most have their home in London,
:22:13. > :22:21.around 43% of them. 18% lived in the West Midlands,
:22:22. > :22:24.particularly in Birmingham, and the north-west is another
:22:25. > :22:26.hotspot with around 10% Richard Dart lived in Weymouth
:22:27. > :22:33.and tried to attend a terrorist He was a convert to Islam, as were
:22:34. > :22:42.60% of the people in this report. He was a convert to Islam, as were
:22:43. > :22:46.16% of the people in this report. Like the majority of cases,
:22:47. > :22:48.he had a family, network. What's particularly interesting
:22:49. > :22:51.is how different each story is in many ways,
:22:52. > :22:54.but then within those differences So your angry young men,
:22:55. > :23:02.in the one sense inspired to travel, seek training and combat experience
:23:03. > :23:09.abroad, and then the older, recruiter father-figure types,
:23:10. > :23:11.the fundraising facilitator types. There are types within
:23:12. > :23:14.this terrorism picture, but the range of backgrounds
:23:15. > :23:20.and experiences is huge. And three quarters of those
:23:21. > :23:22.convicted of Islamist terrorism were on the radar of the authorities
:23:23. > :23:25.because they had a previous criminal record, they had
:23:26. > :23:28.made their extremism public, or because MI5 had them
:23:29. > :23:34.under surveillance. To discuss the findings of this
:23:35. > :23:41.report are the former Security Minister Pauline Neville-Jones,
:23:42. > :23:44.Talha Ahmad from the Muslim Council of Britain, and Adam Deen
:23:45. > :23:59.from the anti-extremist group The report finds the most segregated
:24:00. > :24:04.Muslim community is, the more likely it is to incubate Islamist
:24:05. > :24:09.terrorists, what is the MCB doing to encourage more integrated
:24:10. > :24:13.communities? Its track record on calling for reaching out to the
:24:14. > :24:17.wider society and having a more integrated and cohesive society I
:24:18. > :24:22.think is a pretty strong one, so one thing we are doing for example very
:24:23. > :24:27.recently I've seen we had this visit my mosque initiative, the idea was
:24:28. > :24:29.that mosques become open to inviting people of other faiths and their
:24:30. > :24:36.neighbours to come so we were encouraged to see so many
:24:37. > :24:42.participating. It is one step forward. Is it a good thing or a bad
:24:43. > :24:47.thing that in a number of Muslim communities, the Muslim population
:24:48. > :24:50.is over 60% of the community? I personally and the council would
:24:51. > :24:54.prefer to have more mixed communities but one of the reason
:24:55. > :24:59.they are heavily concentrated is not so much because they prefer to but
:25:00. > :25:04.often because the socio- economic reality forces them to. But you
:25:05. > :25:08.would like to see less segregation? Absolutely, we would prefer more
:25:09. > :25:12.diverse communities around the country. What is your reaction to
:25:13. > :25:17.that? Will need more diverse communities but one of the
:25:18. > :25:21.challenges we have right now with certain organisations is this
:25:22. > :25:24.pushback against the Government, with its attempts to help young
:25:25. > :25:29.Muslims not go down this journey of extremism. One of those things is
:25:30. > :25:33.the Prevent strategy and we often hear organisations like the MCB
:25:34. > :25:38.attacking the strategy which is counter-productive. What do you say
:25:39. > :25:44.to that? Do we support the Government have initiatives to
:25:45. > :25:49.counteract terrorism, of course we do. Do you support the Prevent
:25:50. > :25:55.strategy? We don't because it scapegoats an entire community. The
:25:56. > :25:59.report shows that contrary to a lot of lone wolf theories and people
:26:00. > :26:02.being radicalised in their bedrooms on the Internet that 80% of those
:26:03. > :26:23.convicted had connections with the extremist groups. Indeed 25% willing
:26:24. > :26:29.to Al-Muhajiroun. I think this report, which is a thorough piece of
:26:30. > :26:34.work, charts a long period and it is probably true to say that in the
:26:35. > :26:37.earlier stages these organisations were very important, of course
:26:38. > :26:43.subsequently we have had direct recruiting by IS one to one over the
:26:44. > :26:47.Internet so we have a mixed picture of how people are recruited but
:26:48. > :26:51.there's no doubt these organisations are recruiting sergeants. You were
:26:52. > :27:00.once a member of one of these organisations, are we doing enough
:27:01. > :27:09.to thwart them? If we just focus on these organisations, we will fail.
:27:10. > :27:12.We -- the question is are we doing enough to neutralise them? The
:27:13. > :27:18.Government strategy is in the right place, but where we need to focus on
:27:19. > :27:23.is the Muslim community or communities. The Muslim community
:27:24. > :27:28.must realise that these violent extremists are fringe but they share
:27:29. > :27:31.ideas, a broad spectrum of ideas that penetrate deeply within Muslim
:27:32. > :27:35.communities and we need to tackle those ideas because that is where it
:27:36. > :27:43.all begins. Are you in favour of banning groups like Al-Muhajiroun?
:27:44. > :27:48.Yes, it was the right thing to do and I can tell you the community has
:27:49. > :27:55.moved a long way, Al-Muhajiroun does not have support. Do you agree with
:27:56. > :28:02.that? Yes, but it is very simplistic attacking Al-Muhajiroun. ISIS didn't
:28:03. > :28:07.bring about extremism, extremism brought about ISIS, ISIS is just the
:28:08. > :28:12.brand and if we don't deal with the ideological ideas we will have other
:28:13. > :28:19.organisations popping up. The report suggests that almost a quarter of
:28:20. > :28:24.Islamist the latest offences were committed by individuals previous
:28:25. > :28:28.unknown to the security services. And this is on the rise, these
:28:29. > :28:31.numbers. This would seem to make an already difficult task for our
:28:32. > :28:38.intelligence services almost impossible. Two points. It is over
:28:39. > :28:46.80% I think were known, but it shows the intelligence services and police
:28:47. > :28:51.have got their eyes open. But the trend has been towards more not on
:28:52. > :28:57.the radar. That has been because the nature of the recruitment has also
:28:58. > :29:04.changed and you have much more ISIS inspired go out and do it yourself,
:29:05. > :29:09.get a knife, do something simple, so we have fewer of the big
:29:10. > :29:18.spectaculars that ISIS organised. Now you have got locally organised
:29:19. > :29:22.people, two or three people get together, do something together,
:29:23. > :29:29.very much harder actually to get forewarning of that. That is where
:29:30. > :29:35.intelligence inside the community, the community coming to the police
:29:36. > :29:40.say I'm worried about my friend, this is how you get ahead of that
:29:41. > :29:44.kind of attack. Should people in the Muslim community who are worried
:29:45. > :29:48.about individuals being radicalised, perhaps going down the terrorist
:29:49. > :29:54.route, should they bring in the police? Absolutely and we have been
:29:55. > :29:58.consistent on telling the community that wherever they suspect someone
:29:59. > :30:01.has been involved in terrorism or any kind of criminal activity, they
:30:02. > :30:09.should call the police and cooperate. As the so-called
:30:10. > :30:11.caliphate collapses in the Middle East, how worried should we be about
:30:12. > :30:25.fighters returning here? Extremely worried. They fall into
:30:26. > :30:28.three categories. You have ones who are disillusioned about Islamic
:30:29. > :30:31.State. You have ones who are disturbed, and then you have the
:30:32. > :30:37.dangerous who have not disavowed their ideas and who will have great
:30:38. > :30:43.reasons to perform attacks. What do we do? Anyone who comes back, there
:30:44. > :30:50.should be evidence looked into if they committed any crimes. But all
:30:51. > :30:54.those categories should all be be radicalised. You cannot leave them
:30:55. > :31:00.alone. Will we be sure if we know when they come back? That is
:31:01. > :31:06.difficult to say. They could come in and we might not know. There is a
:31:07. > :31:14.watch list so you have got a better chance. And you can identify them?
:31:15. > :31:17.This is where working with other countries is absolutely crucial and
:31:18. > :31:22.our border controls need to be good as well. I am not saying and the
:31:23. > :31:26.government is not saying that anyone would ever slip through, but it is
:31:27. > :31:31.our ability to know when somebody is coming through and to stop them at
:31:32. > :31:36.the border has improved. An important question. Given your
:31:37. > :31:43.experience, how prepared are away for a Paris style attack in a
:31:44. > :31:47.medium-size, provincial city? The government has exercised this one.
:31:48. > :31:51.It started when I was security minister and it has been taken
:31:52. > :31:56.seriously. The single biggest challenge that the police and the
:31:57. > :31:59.Army says will be one of those mobile, roving attacks. You have to
:32:00. > :32:03.take it seriously and the government does. All right, we will leave it
:32:04. > :32:08.Now, Brexit may have swept austerity from the front pages,
:32:09. > :32:10.but the deficit hasn't gone away and the government is still
:32:11. > :32:14.Just this week Whitehall announced that government departments have
:32:15. > :32:18.been told to find another ?3.5bn worth of savings by 2020.
:32:19. > :32:21.Last November the Independent office for Budget Responsibility
:32:22. > :32:23.said the budget deficit would be ?68 billion in the current
:32:24. > :32:29.It would still be ?17 billion by 2021-22.
:32:30. > :32:32.On Wednesday the Chancellor is expected to announce
:32:33. > :32:37.that the 2016-17 deficit has come in much lower than the OBR forecast.
:32:38. > :32:41.Even so, the government is still aiming for the lowest level
:32:42. > :32:46.of public spending as a percentage of national income since 2003-4,
:32:47. > :32:49.coupled with an increase in the tax burden to its highest
:32:50. > :32:55.So spending cuts will continue with reductions in day-to-day
:32:56. > :32:58.government spending accelerating, producing a real terms cut of over
:32:59. > :33:05.But capital spending, investment on infrastructure
:33:06. > :33:09.like roads, hospitals, housing, is projected to grow,
:33:10. > :33:15.producing a 16 billion real terms increase by 2021-22.
:33:16. > :33:18.The Chancellor's task on Wednesday is to keep these fiscal targets
:33:19. > :33:21.while finding some more money for areas under serious
:33:22. > :33:29.pressure such as the NHS, social care and business rates.
:33:30. > :33:33.We're joined now by Paul Johnson of the Institute for Fiscal Studies.
:33:34. > :33:40.Welcome back to the programme. In last March's budget the OBR
:33:41. > :33:44.predicted just over 2% economic growth for this year. By the Autumn
:33:45. > :33:50.Statement in the wake of the Brexit vote it downgraded back to 1.4%. It
:33:51. > :33:55.is now expected to revise that back around to 2% as the Bank of England
:33:56. > :34:00.has again. It is speculated on the future. It looks like we will get a
:34:01. > :34:05.growth forecast for this year not very different from where it was a
:34:06. > :34:08.year ago. What the bank did was upgrade its forecast for the next
:34:09. > :34:14.year or so, but not change very much. It was thinking about three or
:34:15. > :34:19.four years' time, which is what really matters. It looked like the
:34:20. > :34:23.OBR made a mistake in downgrading the growth in the Autumn Statement
:34:24. > :34:27.three months ago. It was more optimistic than nearly all the other
:34:28. > :34:35.forecasters and the Bank of England. It was wrong, but not as wrong as
:34:36. > :34:38.everybody else. We don't know, but if it significantly upgraded its
:34:39. > :34:45.growth forecast for the next three or four years, I would be surprised.
:34:46. > :34:49.It also added 12 billion to the deficit for the current financial
:34:50. > :34:54.year in the Autumn Statement, compared with March. It looks like
:34:55. > :34:59.that deficit will probably be cut again by about 12 billion compared
:35:00. > :35:03.to the last OBR forecast. It is quite difficult to make economic
:35:04. > :35:08.policy on the basis of changes of that skill every couple of months.
:35:09. > :35:14.That is one of the problems about having these two economic event so
:35:15. > :35:17.close together. My guess is the number will come out somewhere
:35:18. > :35:21.between the budget and the Autumn Statement numbers. There was a nice
:35:22. > :35:26.surprise for the Chancellor last month which looked like tax revenues
:35:27. > :35:30.were coming in a lot more strongly than he expected. But again the real
:35:31. > :35:34.question is how much is this making a difference in the medium run? Is
:35:35. > :35:40.this a one-off thing all good news for the next several years? If
:35:41. > :35:44.growth and revenues are stronger, perhaps not as strong as the good
:35:45. > :35:48.news last month, but if they are stronger than had been forecast in
:35:49. > :35:53.the Autumn Statement, what does that mean for planned spending cuts? It
:35:54. > :35:57.probably does not mean very much. Let's not forget the best possible
:35:58. > :36:02.outcome of this budget will be that for the next couple of years things
:36:03. > :36:06.look no worse than they did a year ago and in four years out they will
:36:07. > :36:10.still look a bit worse, and in addition Philip Hammond did increase
:36:11. > :36:15.his spending plans in November. However good the numbers look in a
:36:16. > :36:21.couple of days' time, we will still be borrowing at least 20 billion
:36:22. > :36:28.more by 2020 than we were forecasting a year ago. Still quite
:36:29. > :36:34.constrained. George Osborne wanted to get us to budget surplus by 2019.
:36:35. > :36:39.That has gone. Philip Hammond is quite happy with a big deficit and
:36:40. > :36:44.is not interested in that. But what he is thinking to a large extent, as
:36:45. > :36:49.you have made clear, there is a lot of uncertainty about the economic
:36:50. > :36:53.reaction over the next three or four years. He says he wants some
:36:54. > :36:58.headroom. If things go wrong, I do not want to announce more spending
:36:59. > :37:01.cuts or more tax rises to keep the deficit down. I want to say things
:37:02. > :37:07.have gone wrong for now and we will borrow. And I have got some money in
:37:08. > :37:12.the kitty. He will not spend a lot of it now. I understand the
:37:13. > :37:18.Chancellor is worried about the erosion of the tax base and it is
:37:19. > :37:23.hard to put VAT up by more than 20%, millions have been taken out of
:37:24. > :37:29.income tax, only 46% of people pay income tax, fuel duty is frozen for
:37:30. > :37:32.ever, corporation tax has been cut, the growth in self-employed has
:37:33. > :37:38.reduced revenues, is that a real concern? These are all worries for
:37:39. > :37:43.him. We have as you said in the introduction to this, got a tax
:37:44. > :37:48.burden which is rising very gradually, but it is rising to its
:37:49. > :37:52.highest level since the mid-19 80s, but is not doing it through
:37:53. > :37:56.straightforward increases to income tax. Lots of bits of pieces of
:37:57. > :38:02.insurance premium tax is here and the apprenticeship levied there, and
:38:03. > :38:07.that is higher personal allowance of income tax and a freeze fuel duty,
:38:08. > :38:11.but at some point we will have to look at the tax system as a whole
:38:12. > :38:19.and ask if we can carry on like this. We will have to start increase
:38:20. > :38:26.fuel duties again, or look to those big but unpopular taxes to really
:38:27. > :38:31.keep that money coming in to keep the challenges we will have over the
:38:32. > :38:37.next 30 years. He is going to set up a commission on social care. He has
:38:38. > :38:38.had quite a few commissions on social care. Thank you for being
:38:39. > :38:40.with us. It's just gone 11.35,
:38:41. > :38:42.you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers
:38:43. > :38:45.in Scotland who leave us now Coming up here in twenty
:38:46. > :38:54.minutes, the Week Ahead. Welcome to Sunday
:38:55. > :38:56.Politics in the south. Local Enterprise Partnerships,
:38:57. > :39:00.or Leps, have been awarded three quarters of a billion
:39:01. > :39:02.pounds in our region What have they done with it
:39:03. > :39:08.and just how much democratic First, let's meet the two
:39:09. > :39:14.politicians who will be Simon is the Labour Leader
:39:15. > :39:18.for Southampton City Council. And Ian Hudspeth is the Conservative
:39:19. > :39:23.leader of Oxford County Council. So, for the Budget, social care,
:39:24. > :39:26.I imagine, is the common Well, he was here on
:39:27. > :39:31.this show just before the Autumn Statement and I said
:39:32. > :39:34.at the time please can we have some more money
:39:35. > :39:36.for social care? We didn't get any more
:39:37. > :39:38.money for social care. I ask again, please can
:39:39. > :39:41.we have the more money for Because what happens is if we do not
:39:42. > :39:45.invest in social care than the costs are picked up
:39:46. > :39:47.in health at probably So it is an actual saving
:39:48. > :39:51.for the public purse to invest in particularly adult social care
:39:52. > :39:53.for vulnerable older people so that they can be supported
:39:54. > :39:56.appropriately in It is an absolute top priority
:39:57. > :40:01.for us and I imagine it We have been saying it
:40:02. > :40:04.away from London, across the country, for, as you
:40:05. > :40:06.point out, a long time. Well, I think the acknowledgement
:40:07. > :40:11.by allowing us to have adult social care preset is something but I think
:40:12. > :40:13.we need more clarity. Are we going to join
:40:14. > :40:15.Health and Social Care I think that is going to be the real
:40:16. > :40:19.benefit for everybody, because it is about having social
:40:20. > :40:25.care and health working together to deliver the savings
:40:26. > :40:27.that can come out of it and above all provide
:40:28. > :40:31.a better service for the residents and
:40:32. > :40:33.it's got to be clear, Surely something just
:40:34. > :40:38.to keep paying the bills. I mean, he loaded on
:40:39. > :40:40.the minimum wage, which And of course, the minimum wage, it
:40:41. > :40:47.is a good thing, because of course for the people actually providing
:40:48. > :40:49.those vital services to the residents, it is good
:40:50. > :40:52.that they are getting the minimum wage, which
:40:53. > :40:53.is excellent, but we do need to work out how
:40:54. > :40:56.we are going to provide if we are going to be
:40:57. > :40:59.having business rates, providing that solution, then let's
:41:00. > :41:02.have some clarity on what is coming to local government to make sure
:41:03. > :41:05.that we can keep it to provide the
:41:06. > :41:08.support for the vulnerable This is only going to get
:41:09. > :41:12.worse as we move to the Brexit situation because a lot of,
:41:13. > :41:15.certainly in this area, a lot of the workers that are working,
:41:16. > :41:18.particularly at the lower end of social care, are from
:41:19. > :41:20.the European Union and a resolution to their status sooner rather
:41:21. > :41:22.than later will be Acute hospitals, a quarter
:41:23. > :41:28.of their staff are EU nationals. If you take those out
:41:29. > :41:34.of the equation then you can imagine the collapse in health provision
:41:35. > :41:36.that we will have in the city. Sounds like something
:41:37. > :41:38.that is going to be Right, so, also on the
:41:39. > :41:41.list, drivers should think long and hard before
:41:42. > :41:45.buying a diesel car. That's what the Transport
:41:46. > :41:51.Secretary Chris Grayling said in a newspaper
:41:52. > :41:53.interview this week. What with scandals over emissions,
:41:54. > :41:55.concerns about the air pollution and now the London mayor
:41:56. > :41:58.calling for a diesel scrappage scheme, it seems as if the diesel
:41:59. > :42:01.engine, which governments used to promote on account of its fuel
:42:02. > :42:03.efficiency, could be set for the Joining us now from our Westminster
:42:04. > :42:07.studio is Edmund King, Were people wrong, Edmund,
:42:08. > :42:11.in thinking buying a diesel Well, it was certainly encouraged
:42:12. > :42:18.by Gordon Brown in 2001. The fiscal incentives in terms
:42:19. > :42:24.of reduced fuel duty and company car At the time, the real incentive
:42:25. > :42:35.was global warming and diesels But now the goalposts
:42:36. > :42:49.have changed and it has gone from CO2 to air
:42:50. > :42:51.quality, and diesels, generally, particularly
:42:52. > :42:52.the older diesels, But again, there is quite a lot
:42:53. > :42:57.of hysteria here because if you actually analyse the problems
:42:58. > :43:01.in our cities, it is often 10% of the vehicles, which are
:43:02. > :43:02.the gross polluters, And they are often the older trucks,
:43:03. > :43:11.older buses, older taxis. So rather than just demonise diesels
:43:12. > :43:19.in general, why not target the gross polluters,
:43:20. > :43:21.get them off the road? Look at Oxford Street in London,
:43:22. > :43:23.where cars are banned, But Chris Grayling said people
:43:24. > :43:28.should take a long hard think about what they need,
:43:29. > :43:31.what they are going to be driving, and make
:43:32. > :43:32.the best endeavours to buy the least
:43:33. > :43:34.polluting vehicle they can. If you look at the AA
:43:35. > :43:45.website, where it talks about different alternative
:43:46. > :43:48.fuels, we do say that if your mileage is predominantly in cities,
:43:49. > :43:51.it is better to think about a low emission car, hybrid car,
:43:52. > :43:57.electric car or smaller petrol car. But diesel prices
:43:58. > :43:59.then, for perfectly well-regulated, modern diesels,
:44:00. > :44:04.that meet regulations, are having trouble
:44:05. > :44:09.shifting those now. Has he not committed
:44:10. > :44:11.a bit of a crime here? Those drivers, to take
:44:12. > :44:16.the phrase, they are going to
:44:17. > :44:18.be fuming about this. Euro six diesels are clean,
:44:19. > :44:24.efficient, fuel efficient cars. But older diesels,
:44:25. > :44:27.you can have problems. So rather than local
:44:28. > :44:31.authorities introducing extra parking charges for diesel cars that
:44:32. > :44:35.might not be going anywhere, we really need to target the culprits,
:44:36. > :44:40.which are the gross polluters. Let's have a scrappage
:44:41. > :44:41.scheme, are you The government makes its money back
:44:42. > :44:51.by the extra VAT they get. 20% VAT on any new cars sold will
:44:52. > :44:58.give them more than ?1000 per car. Do you think they're
:44:59. > :45:00.going to get money? I am not sure whether we
:45:01. > :45:02.actually will get that. ?3500 to get one off
:45:03. > :45:05.the road, some suggest. And maybe if they buy
:45:06. > :45:07.a hybrid instead. Well, we'll have to see
:45:08. > :45:10.whether that is going to actually come in the Budget
:45:11. > :45:12.and see whether that will work through,
:45:13. > :45:13.but I think it is very important to make
:45:14. > :45:16.sure people actually have the choice You know, euro six,
:45:17. > :45:20.the pollutants aren't there How do we encourage
:45:21. > :45:24.people to go down that route as opposed to actually
:45:25. > :45:27.using the older cars? There has been a lot of confusion
:45:28. > :45:30.over it, certainly my wife has a VW Golf, which we all know
:45:31. > :45:33.the issues around that. I am trying to accuse
:45:34. > :45:38.people of being criminals, but what Volkswagen were up to and
:45:39. > :45:43.what... All 37 leading diesel cars fail
:45:44. > :45:49.the requirements on lab tests when you look at what they are
:45:50. > :45:53.doing in the real world. And I think people have got
:45:54. > :45:56.to be held to account. Why have those cars been put
:45:57. > :45:58.through those tests? It is important to make sure
:45:59. > :46:04.that the people who are actually putting out the information
:46:05. > :46:08.get the information correct. The actual salesman is only
:46:09. > :46:14.going on information he is given. Is important to make sure
:46:15. > :46:18.they have the correct information. You could forgive people for not
:46:19. > :46:21.trusting the system. Most of the statistics
:46:22. > :46:23.you get with the new cars They make these measurements with
:46:24. > :46:28.the cars... You haven't got a lot of shopping
:46:29. > :46:31.in it, and people and perfect road conditions, or even
:46:32. > :46:35.on a test track of some sort, they are not realistic and I think
:46:36. > :46:37.there is a case for government saying let's
:46:38. > :46:40.have some realistic numbers so when people actually buy a vehicle
:46:41. > :46:42.they actually get some idea of what they are going to be
:46:43. > :46:45.generally paying for In the meantime, how
:46:46. > :46:48.about some tougher action on the pollution
:46:49. > :46:51.that is being called? Simon, you have just got ?900,000
:46:52. > :46:54.from the government. You want to spend
:46:55. > :46:58.100,000 giving driving What we are trying to do
:46:59. > :47:04.is make sure that when people actually driving, they drive
:47:05. > :47:07.in the least polluting way. A lot of our staff are
:47:08. > :47:10.driving the sorts of vehicles which are covered
:47:11. > :47:14.by the emissions when it comes in. So our dust car
:47:15. > :47:16.drivers, a commercial We have worked out,
:47:17. > :47:21.and the government... It sounds like being
:47:22. > :47:23.soft to me, trying to encourage people to drive more
:47:24. > :47:26.carefully on the council staff rather than cracking
:47:27. > :47:32.down on old diesels, the ones that Edmund says
:47:33. > :47:34.are categories that have just been set
:47:35. > :47:43.out by the gentleman from the AA. It is buses, commercial vehicles,
:47:44. > :47:46.taxis, which not euro six or better. Let's look at the taxi fleet
:47:47. > :47:51.in the city, 96% of it is diesel. They are doing thousands
:47:52. > :47:54.and thousands of Effectively, what we have done
:47:55. > :48:00.is one third of the 900,000 you mentioned is for that scrappage
:48:01. > :48:05.scheme, so we consider our taxi drivers, if you swap to an LPG
:48:06. > :48:08.vehicle or petrol electric then we will incentivise you
:48:09. > :48:12.financially to do that. Effectively get that change
:48:13. > :48:13.underway, because we have now got two years before the scheme
:48:14. > :48:17.comes in and we have got 1000 The taxi drivers,
:48:18. > :48:21.they get the money to get themselves a new car,
:48:22. > :48:24.the staff get lessons, Edmund King, do you think the Chancellor
:48:25. > :48:27.is actually going to help out some of those
:48:28. > :48:29.diesel drivers who bought I don't think the Chancellor
:48:30. > :48:33.is going to help them out In fact, he seems to be intent
:48:34. > :48:40.on increasing costs for drivers, particularly
:48:41. > :48:45.the insurance premium tax, which is a real attack
:48:46. > :48:47.on law-abiding people, who buy their I think he will freeze fuel duty,
:48:48. > :48:51.so I don't think they will be hit further there,
:48:52. > :48:54.but in the long term we need more incentives for people
:48:55. > :48:56.to opt for electric cars, We've got to do something
:48:57. > :49:01.about the pollution. Now, Local Enterprise
:49:02. > :49:13.Partnerships, or Leps, to use the three letter acronym,
:49:14. > :49:16.were introduced in 2011 to replace another three letter acronym, RDAs,
:49:17. > :49:20.regional development agencies. The channel public
:49:21. > :49:24.money into the region In the south have they've so far
:49:25. > :49:33.been awarded three quarters Our Berkshire report has been
:49:34. > :49:39.giving the books the once Work begins on the largest
:49:40. > :49:43.single road scheme ever Once upon a time,
:49:44. > :49:46.it was all so simple. Governments build things
:49:47. > :49:49.while businesses sold goods and made The lines between the public
:49:50. > :49:53.and private sector are much less clear now, and you are nothing
:49:54. > :49:55.if you're not an acronym. You can now add another
:49:56. > :49:57.one to your list, Leps. I guess the most succinct way
:49:58. > :50:01.of describing what they do is they are there to compete
:50:02. > :50:04.for government investment into their Local Enterprise
:50:05. > :50:11.Partnerships work with companies, councils and others,
:50:12. > :50:14.agreeing on shared goals likely to have the greatest impact
:50:15. > :50:18.on the local economy. Tim Smith runs the Thames
:50:19. > :50:20.Valley Lep, which It's just been awarded
:50:21. > :50:29.?35 million by the government to try and ensure
:50:30. > :50:36.the county's economy is not held It is about connectivity
:50:37. > :50:46.within our towns. It is connectivity between our towns
:50:47. > :50:51.and it is honestly the connectivity that our international business
:50:52. > :50:56.community wants to London and into Some of the money will be
:50:57. > :51:03.spent on a mass rapid transport scheme, allowing
:51:04. > :51:06.you to get out of your car just off the A33 onto a bus,
:51:07. > :51:09.on through Green Park into the heart of
:51:10. > :51:10.Reading town centre. Good for the environment,
:51:11. > :51:13.good for business. This is not the first
:51:14. > :51:15.time the Lep has been In 2014, it received
:51:16. > :51:22.?97 million and some of that has been spent regenerating
:51:23. > :51:25.Bracknell town centre, a project Other Leps in the south
:51:26. > :51:28.are also benefiting. Two years ago, the Oxfordshire
:51:29. > :51:33.Lep was given ?108 million, some of which has already
:51:34. > :51:36.been spent on a new innovation Hub Last month, it secured
:51:37. > :51:39.another ?24 million, much of that will be used to train
:51:40. > :51:43.the local workforce. Our skills agenda is one
:51:44. > :51:50.of our most challenging. We've got some incredibly
:51:51. > :51:53.skilled people but we need to do more and if we are to
:51:54. > :51:57.generate the business growth and job creation that we aim to do,
:51:58. > :52:00.we need more highly skilled people. Leps are major players,
:52:01. > :52:02.controlling budgets worth hundreds of million
:52:03. > :52:05.pounds across the south. They are starting to
:52:06. > :52:15.accumulate more money and arguably a bit more
:52:16. > :52:17.of a role and we started to see that grow over
:52:18. > :52:19.the A Lep could potentially be
:52:20. > :52:22.very influential but it has to work with other partners
:52:23. > :52:26.and spend the money it has in the Berkshire's economy is one
:52:27. > :52:28.of the nation's most, With the Northern
:52:29. > :52:31.powerhouse hoovering up billions in grants, it is important
:52:32. > :52:34.the Leps here don't get left behind. The government needs
:52:35. > :52:36.to focus in an area like this, even though
:52:37. > :52:38.it is affluent and has an
:52:39. > :52:40.economy of 34 billion. You need to put some oil
:52:41. > :52:43.into your Formula 1 engine. It is the goose that
:52:44. > :52:46.laid the golden egg. So we do have a real
:52:47. > :52:48.challenge, that we need to keep competing and making
:52:49. > :52:51.the case for Berkshire and the wider Thames Valley, because it is this
:52:52. > :52:53.economy that drives Before Leps we had RDAs,
:52:54. > :52:56.regional development agencies, and they were funded by
:52:57. > :53:02.central government. Leps do still get government
:53:03. > :53:04.grants, but must use that money to bring private
:53:05. > :53:06.companies on board. Going right back to at least
:53:07. > :53:09.the 1920s in Britain, there has been a reinvention of
:53:10. > :53:10.economic development. The Leps are certainly the latest
:53:11. > :53:12.incarnation of that. They have been around
:53:13. > :53:15.for about five or They seem to be accumulating
:53:16. > :53:18.more power at the moment, so I would be
:53:19. > :53:21.imagining they would year Becoming more influential,
:53:22. > :53:27.accumulating power, you're both on Are you happy with it,
:53:28. > :53:31.the way it is, because this is business rather
:53:32. > :53:34.than the way it used to be, local Given a free rein to design
:53:35. > :53:41.the world as I would like it to be designed, I would prefer to have
:53:42. > :53:43.local politicians democratically elected, responsible for local
:53:44. > :53:46.decisions that affect their areas. It is public money and we are not
:53:47. > :53:50.sure where it is all going. Leps are unique, they operate
:53:51. > :53:56.in different ways. Ours is based around
:53:57. > :54:00.a company structure and the business community
:54:01. > :54:02.are elected on to it as well as politicians, so there
:54:03. > :54:05.is an element of democracy there. I think the general
:54:06. > :54:07.principle which the government wants to push
:54:08. > :54:09.forward is that they decisions that affect
:54:10. > :54:15.principally economic growth. Great, and you as a Labour council
:54:16. > :54:17.leader The conversations
:54:18. > :54:21.we have are valuable and I think that business voice does
:54:22. > :54:24.add to the perspective that we have while making big infrastructure
:54:25. > :54:28.investments, although there is a slight obsession with the business
:54:29. > :54:30.community and tarmac. I personally think with Hampshire
:54:31. > :54:42.being one of the areas of the country with the greatest
:54:43. > :54:44.car use as opposed to we need to look at public
:54:45. > :54:47.transport as well. But I think it is important to
:54:48. > :54:52.have the business element on there, coming forward and saying
:54:53. > :54:54.this is what we want, this is what we need
:54:55. > :54:56.to grow the economy. It is quite interesting,
:54:57. > :54:59.because actually the Oxfordshire Lep has been quite rail
:55:00. > :55:02.focused as well and looking at rail projects to make sure that
:55:03. > :55:04.connectivity, because getting Getting from Oxford and London
:55:05. > :55:08.is really good, we have obviously had the new station, which
:55:09. > :55:11.was pre-Lep but it is still about business being in there and having
:55:12. > :55:18.a seat at the table. The Oxfordshire Lep,
:55:19. > :55:22.we have all leaders of the district councils and country
:55:23. > :55:24.Council on the board, accountability there to make sure
:55:25. > :55:28.the decisions are made not just in one specific area but right
:55:29. > :55:30.across Oxfordshire. It is still going up
:55:31. > :55:34.with a begging bowl to London. the amount
:55:35. > :55:45.of money people have hade. 71 million for enterprise M3,
:55:46. > :55:47.which covers bits of Hampshire. 24 million, 34 million,
:55:48. > :55:49.how can the public judge whether or not this
:55:50. > :55:52.is being fairly given out
:55:53. > :55:53.by central government? I think the thing is we are
:55:54. > :56:00.putting in strong bids and it is up to each individual Lep
:56:01. > :56:03.to be putting in those strong bids. We did not get such a good deal this
:56:04. > :56:07.time but if you look over the period for the last four years, we have had
:56:08. > :56:10.about 160, ?170 million in We have just seen the race
:56:11. > :56:13.building, innovative It is really important
:56:14. > :56:16.we drive the economy Because, with the Budget
:56:17. > :56:19.coming, to keep feeding the Northern powerhouse,
:56:20. > :56:21.giving money to combined authorities, the new authorities
:56:22. > :56:24.with mayors, we in the South still have not got those,
:56:25. > :56:29.for lots of different reasons. Do you think that there is this
:56:30. > :56:32.element in which he might shy away from investing in the places
:56:33. > :56:36.where the economy is growing well? What we have got to do is find out
:56:37. > :56:39.how we can create our own infrastructure funds so actually
:56:40. > :56:42.within the region, with an Oxfordshire, we are going
:56:43. > :56:51.to government and think this is an -- saying this is an infrastructure
:56:52. > :56:54.fund we have got, we have got X million pounds,
:56:55. > :56:56.this is a project that we think
:56:57. > :56:58.is important to drive the economy, to grow
:56:59. > :56:59.the economy and government will come
:57:00. > :57:01.back with investment. Your criticism as we have got
:57:02. > :57:07.to go to them and ask We spend a lot of time and effort
:57:08. > :57:11.bringing out lists and We then have to wait
:57:12. > :57:14.for the begging bowl to I would say, look,
:57:15. > :57:20.why not have an honest discussion and say here is your cash
:57:21. > :57:23.over five years, go away and make some sensible decisions and we
:57:24. > :57:26.are not going to be constantly At the end of the year,
:57:27. > :57:30.they take the money back There is a Treasury hand
:57:31. > :57:38.as well trying to get It is not perfect
:57:39. > :57:46.and I am a pragmatist and we have to deal
:57:47. > :57:47.with what we are given and what
:57:48. > :57:50.the government wants to do. Our job is to get the best
:57:51. > :57:53.we can for the areas Our regular round-up of
:57:54. > :57:57.the political week of the south in A strange tale from Gosport,
:57:58. > :58:01.where the council wants to ban walking more than
:58:02. > :58:04.four dogs at once. They are worried about mess
:58:05. > :58:06.and pooches out of control. Some owners say they
:58:07. > :58:08.are barking up the The many are being
:58:09. > :58:11.penalised for the view. Swarms of these new
:58:12. > :58:13.dragonfly drones will soon be deployed in surveillance
:58:14. > :58:15.by the Ministry of defence. They are being built
:58:16. > :58:17.by a spin off from Oxford I wanted to make it
:58:18. > :58:20.easier for small, high-tech companies
:58:21. > :58:26.to come to defence. The Transport Secretary pulled
:58:27. > :58:29.the plug on ?200 million to He blamed disagreement
:58:30. > :58:35.about the road. Accident and Emergency queues
:58:36. > :58:37.could be cut, however. A pilot scheme at
:58:38. > :58:39.Bournemouth Hospital used a paramedic to manage
:58:40. > :58:40.waiting patients. Ambulances were turned
:58:41. > :58:43.around twice as fast. They tried too hard,
:58:44. > :58:46.though, to speed up the Parliamentary pancake race, leaving
:58:47. > :58:48.the Sussex MP Tim Lawton along the south coast,
:58:49. > :59:13.do you think he is bluffing? If that is the decision,
:59:14. > :59:15.it is, you know, a real kick in the teeth for
:59:16. > :59:19.most of the population of West Sussex and
:59:20. > :59:28.The links from Bournemouth all the way through
:59:29. > :59:31.to Brighton have notoriously been poor on rail and road and that
:59:32. > :59:33.upgrade, I think, would have been a real...
:59:34. > :59:36.And yet there has been money available for all sorts of road
:59:37. > :59:43.Is it that point that we were saying, that the government
:59:44. > :59:46.wants to see solutions, it does not want to see
:59:47. > :59:50.Maybe, like we saw in the NHS, you put in a paramedic in the
:59:51. > :59:54.Why not but your own solutions to some of
:59:55. > :00:00.With those savings, how can you reinvest them
:00:01. > :00:08.It is about localities looking to see what they can
:00:09. > :00:10.deliver, rather than just this begging bowl.
:00:11. > :00:11.The innovation of the paramedic, absolutely fantastic.
:00:12. > :00:13.Really good at cutting down the queues.
:00:14. > :00:16.It is important because that means people are not taking so long
:00:17. > :00:20.to get into hospital and being seen quicker
:00:21. > :00:22.and hopefully being able to get out quicker.
:00:23. > :00:24.Are you convinced, in your organisations, that there
:00:25. > :00:30.are not simple ideas like that being this?
:00:31. > :00:35.People see the public sector and say they would not have let it
:00:36. > :00:38.go on like that for so long in the private sector?
:00:39. > :00:40.I would be interested to know who came up with
:00:41. > :00:43.that idea and I bet you it was somebody on the front line.
:00:44. > :00:45.I have said to my Chief Executive, I want
:00:46. > :00:49.the front line staff to be coming up with ideas and their ideas to be
:00:50. > :00:50.taken seriously because invariably,
:00:51. > :00:52.the person who is doing the job is the person
:00:53. > :00:54.who can best know how to do
:00:55. > :00:58.We have really had that ethos and we have had ?120 million
:00:59. > :01:00.in cuts in Southampton over the last five years.
:01:01. > :01:05.Virtually every part of the processes we do.
:01:06. > :01:10.It's the interface between different organisations,
:01:11. > :01:15.there you have got the paramedics and hospital
:01:16. > :01:17.and they have worked out a
:01:18. > :01:20.Which is very simple and is all about front line services
:01:21. > :01:33.actually understanding what needs to be done as opposed to be
:01:34. > :01:36.going from a to d via c go straight there
:01:37. > :01:39.It is alarming and empowering people to
:01:40. > :01:42.have the ability to come back with ideas and any organisation that
:01:43. > :01:46.turns round and says we are doing it to the best of our ability and we
:01:47. > :01:47.cannot improve, we can always improve.
:01:48. > :01:53.need Crossrail as well. We will be poring over the entrails of the
:01:54. > :01:58.budget next week. Thank you very much indeed.
:01:59. > :02:04.So the Brexit Bill is back in the Lords next week and the Lib Dems
:02:05. > :02:07.They've ordered pizza and camp beds to encourage their peers
:02:08. > :02:10.to keep talking all night, only to be told by the Lord's
:02:11. > :02:17.authorities that their plans fall foul of health and safety laws.
:02:18. > :02:25.Laws that they probably voted for. What did you make of David
:02:26. > :02:29.Liddington's remarks on the Lords amendments, particularly not just
:02:30. > :02:34.the one on EU nationals, but on what is regarded as a meaningful vote at
:02:35. > :02:39.the end of the process? Let's be clear, as ministers like to say, the
:02:40. > :02:45.meaningful vote vote is by far the biggest thing that will happen in
:02:46. > :02:51.Parliament. It puts EU citizens into a tiny corner. It will decide not
:02:52. > :02:55.just who is going to have the final say on this, but who the EU is
:02:56. > :03:00.negotiating with. Is it directly with Theresa May or is it with
:03:01. > :03:05.Parliament? Who will decide the shape of Brexit, Parliament or
:03:06. > :03:12.Theresa May? The Lords amendment is just the first chapter. They have
:03:13. > :03:15.voiced Theresa May to give them a veto on everything she does, and
:03:16. > :03:22.there is a possible chance in the Commons could uphold this amendment.
:03:23. > :03:28.The meaningful vote amendment? The meaningful vote amendment. But is it
:03:29. > :03:35.a meaningful vote if the choice is to either back the deal or crash out
:03:36. > :03:39.of the deal? That is what the remain supporting MPs or hardline people
:03:40. > :03:43.who want to remain fear. What they want is the power to be able to send
:03:44. > :03:50.Theresa May back to the negotiating table. Why is that anathema to many
:03:51. > :03:54.Brexit supporters? They believed it would crucially and critically
:03:55. > :04:00.undermine Theresa May's negotiating hand and also create a long period
:04:01. > :04:03.of uncertainty for business. There is already great uncertainty and
:04:04. > :04:08.this could extend it. The government's position is in there
:04:09. > :04:13.was a proper, meaningful vote which Parliament could reject what was on
:04:14. > :04:19.offer, that would be an incentive to the EU to give us a bad deal? I
:04:20. > :04:23.think that is the fear. If you are saying to the people you are
:04:24. > :04:27.negotiating with that that is another authority and Theresa May
:04:28. > :04:31.will have to go back and have all of this approved, I think it would have
:04:32. > :04:38.a very significant undermining effect on her negotiating hand.
:04:39. > :04:43.Things change from day to day. We are talking about 2019 and 2018 at
:04:44. > :04:51.the earliest, but if the government lost a vote on the Brexit deal,
:04:52. > :04:57.would he not have to call in someone else? That is why the vote will be
:04:58. > :05:02.meaningful even if the amendment on this meaningful vote will be lost.
:05:03. > :05:07.You cannot do a deal on something as historic as Brexit and have
:05:08. > :05:12.Parliament against you. So, whatever form this vote takes, whenever it
:05:13. > :05:21.happens, it will be hugely meaningful. Whatever label that is
:05:22. > :05:28.given and if she lost it she would call a general election. She could
:05:29. > :05:31.not impose it. To call a general election now you need a majority of
:05:32. > :05:37.MPs which she will not have, so maybe she will not get her election
:05:38. > :05:40.after all. It would be very unlike Labour not to vote for an election.
:05:41. > :05:43.It would be very unlike Labour not to vote for an election.
:05:44. > :05:47.The elections to Stormont have given a boost to the republicans and put
:05:48. > :05:49.the long term status of Northern Ireland in some doubt.
:05:50. > :05:51.Sinn Fein's leader Gerry Adams spoke to reporters
:05:52. > :05:56.Yesterday was in many, many ways a watershed election,
:05:57. > :06:00.and we have just started a process of reflecting what it all means,
:06:01. > :06:16.but clearly the union's majority in the Assembly has been ended,
:06:17. > :06:19.and the notion of a permanent or a perpetual unionist majority
:06:20. > :06:31.Is he right? Is this a watershed? The nationalist vote in the assembly
:06:32. > :06:37.will now come to 39 and the Unionists 38. It is only one member,
:06:38. > :06:41.but it is significant. This is a very serious moment and because of
:06:42. > :06:45.everything else going on with Donald Trump and Brexit it is taking a
:06:46. > :06:51.while for people here to realise just how significant this is.
:06:52. > :06:54.Talking to someone who only recently left a significant role in Northern
:06:55. > :06:58.Ireland politics last night, they said they were very worried about
:06:59. > :07:02.what this means. It is likely there will be a call for some kind of
:07:03. > :07:07.international figure to chair the talks to try and see if there is a
:07:08. > :07:11.way of everybody working together. All sides will probably try to
:07:12. > :07:15.extract more money from the Treasury, but it is a very dangerous
:07:16. > :07:20.moment. Should we regard Michelle O'Neill, who has replaced Mr
:07:21. > :07:29.McGuinness as the leader, it is she the First Minister death probably
:07:30. > :07:35.not quite. An interesting thought. Indeed, the daughter of an IRA man,
:07:36. > :07:40.a fascinating concept in itself. But there are are still a large amount
:07:41. > :07:45.of MLAs who will not give Sinn Fein what they need. But what effect does
:07:46. > :07:47.this have on the legacy of the prosecutions and the great
:07:48. > :07:53.witchhunts which the British Government has vowed to end. There
:07:54. > :08:00.is a majority left on the Stormont assembly to end those. But some
:08:01. > :08:06.would keep them going for time continuing, which is a headache for
:08:07. > :08:11.Theresa May. You have now got 27 Sinn Fein members, 28 DUP, then the
:08:12. > :08:17.SDLP bumps up the numbers a little bit. You have got the British
:08:18. > :08:21.Government transfixed with Brexit which has huge implications for the
:08:22. > :08:28.border between North and South in Ireland, and the Irish government is
:08:29. > :08:31.pretty wavering as well and if there is an election there, Sinn Fein
:08:32. > :08:36.could do well in the Dublin parliament as well. There are a lot
:08:37. > :08:40.of moving pieces. There are and there is a danger that we look at
:08:41. > :08:46.everything through the prism of Brexit, but I found Friday and this
:08:47. > :08:49.weekend fascinating. Theresa May and Scotland were Nicola Sturgeon is
:08:50. > :08:53.framing Brexit entirely through an argument to have a second referendum
:08:54. > :08:58.on independence which she wants to hold it she possibly can. And the
:08:59. > :09:07.Irish situation with the prospect of a hard border with Northern Ireland
:09:08. > :09:16.voting majority to remain, quite a substantial majority, again a few of
:09:17. > :09:18.the instability at the moment. That is on both sides. We will be keeping
:09:19. > :09:22.We will be keeping an eye on it for sure.
:09:23. > :09:23.Yesterday, US President Donald Trump tweeted allegations
:09:24. > :09:26.that his predecessor, Barack Obama, had ordered
:09:27. > :09:28.his phones to be tapped during the election campaign.
:09:29. > :09:31."Terrible!", Trump wrote, "Just found out that Obama
:09:32. > :09:35.had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory.
:09:36. > :09:49.I'm not quite sure what McCarthyism that is.
:09:50. > :09:51.He followed up with a series of tweets comparing it to Watergate.
:09:52. > :09:57."How low has President Obama gone to tap my phones during the very
:09:58. > :10:11.The sacred election process, I think at one stage he said it was a dodgy
:10:12. > :10:12.election process, but now it is sacred.
:10:13. > :10:25.You are frightened to go to bed at night, you do not know what you are
:10:26. > :10:30.going to wake up to. Completely uncharted territory here. Little
:10:31. > :10:33.more than a month ago at the inauguration they were making the
:10:34. > :10:40.veneer of small talk and politely shaking hands. He saw Barack Obama
:10:41. > :10:47.and Michelle off on the helicopter. You do not know what is coming next.
:10:48. > :10:52.Is there a scintilla of evidence to back up Donald Trump's claims? Yes,
:10:53. > :10:56.there is, although he is very muddled about it all. I will
:10:57. > :11:09.explain. Remember what happened to Mike Flynn, talking to the Russian
:11:10. > :11:14.and Ambassador will stop they were listening. Barack Obama does not
:11:15. > :11:18.sign of warrants, but somebody else did. So why on earth would you not
:11:19. > :11:26.want to listen to the president elect himself in case he might also
:11:27. > :11:30.be breaking the law. Does that sound to you like convincing evidence or
:11:31. > :11:34.just a supposition? I think Tom should go and work for him, that is
:11:35. > :11:40.the most credible interpretation I have heard for a long time. Start
:11:41. > :11:45.tweeting the case for the tweet. What is interesting about this is my
:11:46. > :11:49.theory is he does not really like the idea of being a president. That
:11:50. > :11:55.wild press conference he gave a couple of weeks ago there was one ad
:11:56. > :12:01.lib that did not get repeated which was, I suppose I am a politician
:12:02. > :12:05.now, as if he was humiliated at the idea of being a president. He likes
:12:06. > :12:10.being the businessman with a swagger tweeting around the clock. And
:12:11. > :12:15.campaigning again. He keeps going to what looked like campaign rallies. I
:12:16. > :12:19.disagree with you about him not liking being president. I think he
:12:20. > :12:24.loves the idea of being the president, but the reality is so
:12:25. > :12:27.frustrating on every level, finding he does not have unlimited room for
:12:28. > :12:31.manoeuvre and so many things have been put in place to stop them doing
:12:32. > :12:34.things he would do in the business environment. We have had two more
:12:35. > :12:40.tweets from him this morning, I guess when he woke up. Who was it
:12:41. > :12:43.who secretly said to the Russian president, tell Vladimir that after
:12:44. > :12:51.the election I will have more flexibility? Who was that? Possibly
:12:52. > :12:56.Hillary Clinton. Is it true the Democratic National committee would
:12:57. > :13:00.not allow the FBI access to check server or other equipment after
:13:01. > :13:04.learning it was hacked? Can that be possible? This was all an issue in
:13:05. > :13:10.the campaign. He is now a president. Shall I point out the flaw in Tom's
:13:11. > :13:13.theory. They were not bugging Michael Flynn's phone, it was the
:13:14. > :13:23.Russian Ambassador's telephone they were barking. Mr Neil, I would never
:13:24. > :13:27.contradict you on this programme. But if you suspect there was
:13:28. > :13:34.criminal activity going on, as there was by Michael Flynn, why would you
:13:35. > :13:39.not want to put on a tap? I don't know. That is it for today.
:13:40. > :13:42.I'll be back next week here on BBC One at 11am as usual.
:13:43. > :13:44.The Daily Politics is back tomorrow at midday on BBC Two.
:13:45. > :14:34.But remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.
:14:35. > :14:37.The thing that's so clear is that it's 100% honest.
:14:38. > :14:41.We're right in the middle of the action.
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