:00:37. > :00:40.It's Sunday afternoon - this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:41. > :00:43.Jeremy Corbyn wants to give everyone in Britain four
:00:44. > :00:45.extra bank holidays - but is the Labour leader up
:00:46. > :00:48.to being Prime Minister if he wins the election in just
:00:49. > :00:54.Theresa May says she wants a stronger hand to deliver Brexit -
:00:55. > :00:56.how will the Conservatives go about getting the bigger
:00:57. > :01:03.I'll be asking Party Chairman, Patrick McLoughlin.
:01:04. > :01:07.And I've been in Paris where voters are going to the polls in first
:01:08. > :01:10.round of the French Presidential election - what could be the impact
:01:11. > :01:14.In the South... unpredictable of contests?
:01:15. > :01:16.What are the issues that will sway your vote?
:01:17. > :01:18.Will it be housing, the NHS, transport -
:01:19. > :01:26.Or feel they may not like it but the Tories
:01:27. > :01:41.And with me has always ready for the marathon task of covering a snap
:01:42. > :01:45.general election, even working on bank holidays, the best and
:01:46. > :01:45.brightest political panel in the business. David Wooding, Polly
:01:46. > :01:49.Toynbee and Toby Young. So Labour's big announcement this
:01:50. > :01:51.morning was a crowd pleaser. Four more rainy bank
:01:52. > :01:53.holidays to enjoy - one for each of the patron saints
:01:54. > :01:56.of England, Scotland, But Mr Corbyn probably won't be
:01:57. > :02:02.getting the time off work if he wins And on The Andrew Marr Show this
:02:03. > :02:06.morning he was asked what he would do as Prime Minister
:02:07. > :02:09.if the security services asked him to authorise a drone strike
:02:10. > :02:12.on the leader of Islamic State. What I'd tell them is,
:02:13. > :02:16.give me the information you've got, tell me how accurate that is,
:02:17. > :02:18.tell me what you I'm asking you about decisions you
:02:19. > :02:28.would take as Prime Minister. Can I take you back
:02:29. > :02:30.to the whole point? Is the objective
:02:31. > :02:34.to start more strikes that may kill many innocent
:02:35. > :02:36.people, as has happened? Do you think killing
:02:37. > :02:38.the leader of Isis would be I think the leader of Isis not
:02:39. > :02:47.being around would be helpful, and I'm no supporter or defender
:02:48. > :02:49.in any way of Isis. But I would also argue that
:02:50. > :02:54.the bombing campaign has killed a of whom were virtually prisoners of
:02:55. > :02:57.Isis. So you've got to think
:02:58. > :03:03.about these things. Mr Corbyn earlier. David, is his
:03:04. > :03:08.reply refreshing damaging? It is damaging. He has clearly been
:03:09. > :03:12.freaked to the fire already in the first week, there will be lots of
:03:13. > :03:15.questions on his suitability as a leader and the damage it could cause
:03:16. > :03:20.to our national security over the weeks ahead and Andrew Marr has cut
:03:21. > :03:23.straight to the chase here. The other thing, of course, is the
:03:24. > :03:26.letters of last resort, one of the first duties of a Prime Minister
:03:27. > :03:32.when he walks into No 10 is to sign these letters on his own, on or --
:03:33. > :03:35.or on her own in a room, a very lonely moment, to decide whether he
:03:36. > :03:39.should press the nuclear button and that goes in the Vanguard submarines
:03:40. > :03:43.and is opened in the event of a strike and he has dodged a question
:03:44. > :03:47.so many times. One must wonder what he would do that. He has to make
:03:48. > :03:52.these decisions as Prime Minister. On the Isis point, refreshing or
:03:53. > :03:57.damaging? It sure is his base, the people who support him, that's the
:03:58. > :04:00.sort of thing they support info and maybe his tactic is that's all he's
:04:01. > :04:04.going to get, that is what the polls seem to suggest, in which case they
:04:05. > :04:07.will be pleased, and say yes, the man is a man for these who doesn't
:04:08. > :04:14.press buttons and shoot people down. But if you want to win you have to
:04:15. > :04:18.deal with your own weaknesses and reach out to other people. I think
:04:19. > :04:23.most people would say that's not somebody who could defend the
:04:24. > :04:27.country. I wonder if he was being totally honest in saying he would
:04:28. > :04:31.consider it he would ask for more information. He has previously been
:04:32. > :04:34.on the record as being against drone strikes in principle, he's
:04:35. > :04:38.campaigned against them, he wants to abolish drones. I think Andrew Marr
:04:39. > :04:42.let him off saying it was a drone strike rather than a Navy SEAL or
:04:43. > :04:45.SAS operation and he had the fact that they could be collateral
:04:46. > :04:51.damage. We that's not his position because he condemned the
:04:52. > :04:55.assassination of Osama Bin Laden even though there was no collateral
:04:56. > :04:58.damage. David is right on the Trident point, he fetched the
:04:59. > :05:04.question. We heard Niall Griffiths on this very show saying Trident,
:05:05. > :05:07.the renewal of Trident, would be in the next Labour Party manifesto. It
:05:08. > :05:10.turns out now we don't know and when he was asked he said that remains to
:05:11. > :05:14.be seen, his re-opened a can of worms. What he has said about
:05:15. > :05:19.Trident which was extraordinary was, we will rebuild the submarines but
:05:20. > :05:22.not have any nukes on them which is expensive and useless. And of course
:05:23. > :05:25.the Labour Party were forced soon after that interview to put out a
:05:26. > :05:31.statement saying it is Labour Party policy to renew Trident. So where
:05:32. > :05:35.are we? Do we know what the party's policy is? It is to renew Trident
:05:36. > :05:41.but he has started this review which involves looking at it all again. We
:05:42. > :05:46.know he is a unilateralist to start with but whether he can force this
:05:47. > :05:50.through is dubious. Does it matter, though, if the party policy is in
:05:51. > :05:54.favour of Trident, if the leader is not? The potential Prime Minister is
:05:55. > :05:57.not? They split three ways when they went to vote on it in the Commons.
:05:58. > :06:01.The party agreed they were pro-Trident and when it came to the
:06:02. > :06:06.vote they split three ways. I think it's difficult for them, it's always
:06:07. > :06:10.been a really difficult issue for Labour. The question is whether you
:06:11. > :06:14.want to seal off your negatives, whether you really want to try and
:06:15. > :06:17.reach out to people. There are an awful lot of people who will like
:06:18. > :06:22.what he said, there are an awful lot of people that think we have been
:06:23. > :06:25.involved in terrible wars, we have wasted a lot of money and blood and
:06:26. > :06:31.let's just get back from the whole thing, let's retreat from the world
:06:32. > :06:34.and not try punching above our weight. There is something to be
:06:35. > :06:38.said for that and it is a reasonable argument. He's been true to himself
:06:39. > :06:42.on this. I think he is and Polly is right, lots of people will agree
:06:43. > :06:46.with him, not enough to win a general election, the latest ComRes
:06:47. > :06:49.poll shows Tories on 50% and Labour on 25 and as my colleague James
:06:50. > :06:53.Forsyth in the Spectator said if this was a boxing match it would
:06:54. > :06:54.have been stopped by now by the revelry. We are not stopping, we are
:06:55. > :06:56.going on. So the political parties have had
:06:57. > :06:58.to move into election mode Stand by for battle buses,
:06:59. > :07:02.mail shots and your social media timeline being bombarded
:07:03. > :07:03.by political propoganda. But none of this comes cheap -
:07:04. > :07:09.Adam's been doing his sums. Democracy is priceless but those
:07:10. > :07:14.planes, trains and automobiles used in the last election cost money
:07:15. > :07:16.and we know exactly how much, thanks to the Electoral
:07:17. > :07:22.Commission database. The Conservatives flew David Cameron
:07:23. > :07:26.to every part of the UK in one day on a private plane costing ?29,000,
:07:27. > :07:32.in-flight meals extra. They shelled out ?1.2 million
:07:33. > :07:38.for adverts on Facebook. The most expensive item was their
:07:39. > :07:42.election guru Lynton Crosby. They bought ?2.4 million worth
:07:43. > :07:45.of advice and research from his firm Labour's biggest expenditure
:07:46. > :07:51.was on good old-fashioned leaflets, costing ?7.4 million
:07:52. > :07:54.to print and deliver. Hope they didn't go straight
:07:55. > :07:59.into the recycling. Cheap for all the
:08:00. > :08:08.enjoyment it gave us. To turn a normal minibus
:08:09. > :08:11.into Harriet Harman's pink bus Nick Clegg toured the country doing
:08:12. > :08:17.all manner of stunts transported although the party got a grand's
:08:18. > :08:30.discount when it broke down. Ukip's then leader Nigel Farage
:08:31. > :08:32.was accompanied by bodyguards Nicola Sturgeon's chopper
:08:33. > :08:41.cost the SNP ?35,450. Plaid Cymru spent just over
:08:42. > :08:45.?1,000 on media training And the Greens spent ?6,912
:08:46. > :08:59.promoting their tweets. It adds up to a grand total
:09:00. > :09:03.for all the parties of ?37,560,039. Jabbing at my calculator that works
:09:04. > :09:09.out at less than ?1 per voter. Adam Fleming there -
:09:10. > :09:14.and joining me now is the man responsible for the Conservative
:09:15. > :09:18.election campaigns - for the locals next month
:09:19. > :09:26.and the general election in June - Welcome to the programme. The Crown
:09:27. > :09:29.Prosecution Service is reviewing evidence from 14 police forces that
:09:30. > :09:34.your party breached election spending rules on multiple occasions
:09:35. > :09:40.in the last election. What are you going to do differently this time?
:09:41. > :09:46.Well, the battle buses are part of the National campaign spend. You saw
:09:47. > :09:49.them just on the shot that you did, all three parties had those battle
:09:50. > :09:53.buses so that's why we believe they were part of the national spend and
:09:54. > :09:56.it was declared that way. At least 30 people in your party, MPs and
:09:57. > :10:00.agents, being investigated because they may not have been right to
:10:01. > :10:03.include it in the national spend. Are you saying you are going to do
:10:04. > :10:11.nothing differently this time? You asked me about last time and the way
:10:12. > :10:15.the position is... Was. I asked you about this time. We will take a
:10:16. > :10:21.careful count and make sure that everything that we do is within the
:10:22. > :10:25.law. But as I say, the last election, all three parties had
:10:26. > :10:29.battle buses. It is your party that above all has been investigated by
:10:30. > :10:35.14 police forces. You must surely be taking stock of that and working out
:10:36. > :10:38.how to do some things differently. You are being investigated because
:10:39. > :10:43.you put stuff on the National Ledger which should have been on the local
:10:44. > :10:46.constituency ledger. Are you looking at that again? All of the parties
:10:47. > :10:50.had battle buses and they all put them on their national spend. I
:10:51. > :10:55.don't think any of the parties put them on the local spend. The other
:10:56. > :10:58.battle buses were not full of their party activists. Your party stuffed
:10:59. > :11:04.these battle buses with activists and took them to constituencies.
:11:05. > :11:08.That's the difference. And I ask again, what is different this time?
:11:09. > :11:12.Are you going to run the risk of being investigated yet again? We
:11:13. > :11:17.believe that we fully compliant with the electoral law as it was. What
:11:18. > :11:22.will happen if one of these, or two or three or four or five of these 30
:11:23. > :11:28.people, Tory MPs, or agents running campaigns are charged during the
:11:29. > :11:31.campaign? As I say I believe we properly declared our election
:11:32. > :11:35.expenses. What happens if they are charged? You asking me a
:11:36. > :11:38.hypothetical question, the importance of this election is about
:11:39. > :11:43.who is in Downing Street in seven weeks' time. Let me clarify this,
:11:44. > :11:46.you maintain that in 2015 you did nothing wrong with how you allocated
:11:47. > :11:49.the cost and the activities of the battle buses and you would do
:11:50. > :11:54.exactly the same this time round? What we did at the last election we
:11:55. > :11:59.believe fully complied with the law. So the battle buses this time,
:12:00. > :12:03.stocked full of activists, will still be charged to the national
:12:04. > :12:11.campaign even when they go to local constituencies? Will they? We will
:12:12. > :12:15.be looking at the way we do it, there is new guidance from the
:12:16. > :12:19.Electoral Commission out and we will look at that guidance. It is not the
:12:20. > :12:23.guidance, it is the lawful stop the Electoral Commission said that, if
:12:24. > :12:26.you look at the report they did on us, they said there was one area
:12:27. > :12:30.where we had over claimed, over declared, and another area we had
:12:31. > :12:33.and declared. We haven't worked out what to do
:12:34. > :12:37.yet, have you? We will get on with the campaign and
:12:38. > :12:39.start the campaign and I'm looking forward to the campaign.
:12:40. > :12:42.I'm trying to work out of the campaign is going to be legal or not
:12:43. > :12:46.because last time it seems it could have been illegal.
:12:47. > :12:48.I am sure the campaign will be legal.
:12:49. > :12:53.You started the campaign warning about the prospect of, the coalition
:12:54. > :13:01.of chaos. Mr Corbyn has ruled out a post-election coalition with the SNP
:13:02. > :13:03.and so have the Lib Dems so who is going to be in this coalition?
:13:04. > :13:05.Vince Cable said he was looking towards a possible coalition trying
:13:06. > :13:08.to stop a Conservative government. Is not the leader of the Lib Dems.
:13:09. > :13:15.He's an important voice in the Lib Dems. Who will be in it? Let's see
:13:16. > :13:18.because of the Conservative Party is not re-elected with a strong
:13:19. > :13:21.majority, what will happen? There will be a coalition stopping us
:13:22. > :13:26.doing the things we need to do. Who will be in it? It will be a
:13:27. > :13:29.coalition of the Labour Party, the SNP and the Liberal party. They have
:13:30. > :13:33.ruled it out. I think they would not rule it out if that was the
:13:34. > :13:37.situation. Like Theresa May not ruling out an election and then
:13:38. > :13:41.changing her mind? The things the Prime Minister said were very clear,
:13:42. > :13:45.once she had served Article 50 there was an opportunity, as we know
:13:46. > :13:49.today, there is going to be the start of a new government formed in
:13:50. > :13:52.France and in September we have the German elections. So it was quite
:13:53. > :13:58.right that we didn't get ourselves boxed into a timetable. That is why
:13:59. > :14:01.the Prime Minister took the view that they should be a general
:14:02. > :14:05.election to give her full strength of an electoral mandate when it
:14:06. > :14:12.comes to those negotiations. What about Mr Corbyn's plan for four new
:14:13. > :14:15.bank holidays, good idea? I'm not... If we get Corbyn in No 10 Downing St
:14:16. > :14:21.we will have a permanent bank holiday of the United Kingdom. We
:14:22. > :14:26.will have fewer bank holidays of most other major nations, most about
:14:27. > :14:30.major wealthy nations. What about at least one more? Well, look, he's
:14:31. > :14:35.talked about four bank holidays. Today would be a bank holiday and
:14:36. > :14:39.next Monday would be a bank holiday and the other week was a bank
:14:40. > :14:43.holiday too. I don't think it's very well thought out. It sounded more to
:14:44. > :14:47.me something like you get in school mock elections rather than proper
:14:48. > :14:50.elections. Your party is the self-styled party of the workers and
:14:51. > :14:54.you have no plans to give the workers even one extra bank holiday?
:14:55. > :14:59.What we want to do is ensure Britain is a strong economy and building on
:15:00. > :15:03.the jobs that we have created since 2010. We were told that by reducing
:15:04. > :15:08.public expenditure unemployment in this country would go up,
:15:09. > :15:13.unemployment has gone down and the number of jobs have gone up
:15:14. > :15:16.substantially. But no more bank holidays? Well, we will make our
:15:17. > :15:20.manifesto in due course but I don't think four bank holidays held in
:15:21. > :15:26.April, March and November are very attractive to people. When Ed
:15:27. > :15:35.Miliband as leader of the Labour Party suggested the government
:15:36. > :15:39.should control energy prices by capping them, the Conservatives
:15:40. > :15:43.described that as almost Communist and central planning. Do still take
:15:44. > :15:47.that view? You'll see what we have to say on energy prices. I didn't
:15:48. > :15:51.you about that, I asked you if you take the view... The Prime Minister
:15:52. > :15:54.made a speech at the Conservative Spring conference in which she
:15:55. > :15:57.outlined her dissatisfaction about people who are kept locked on a
:15:58. > :16:00.standard tariff and those are the issues we will address in the next
:16:01. > :16:05.few weeks when the manifesto was published.
:16:06. > :16:11.Would that be an act of communism? You will need to see what we say
:16:12. > :16:18.when we set out the policies. It could be. You could put a Communist
:16:19. > :16:22.act into your manifesto? I don't think you'll find a Communist
:16:23. > :16:26.manifesto in a Conservative manifesto which will be launched...
:16:27. > :16:30.You are planning to control prices? We will address what we think is
:16:31. > :16:34.unfairness in the energy market. Mr Jeremy Corbyn was reluctant this
:16:35. > :16:40.morning to sanction a drone strike. You heard us talking about it
:16:41. > :16:44.earlier against the leader of Islamic State if our intelligence
:16:45. > :16:48.services identified him. What would it achieve? When the Prime Minister
:16:49. > :16:53.gets certain advice in the national interests, she has to act been that.
:16:54. > :16:56.We've seen with Theresa May in her time as Home Secretary and Prime
:16:57. > :17:00.Minister, she's not afraid to take those very difficult decisions. What
:17:01. > :17:04.we say this morning from Jeremy Corbyn was a his tans, a reluctance.
:17:05. > :17:11.I don't think that serves the country well. What would it achieve
:17:12. > :17:15.if we take out the head of Islamic State he's replaced by somebody
:17:16. > :17:21.else. It brings their organisation into difficulties. It undermines
:17:22. > :17:25.their organisation. It shows we'll take every measure to undo an
:17:26. > :17:28.organisation which has organised terrorism in different parts of
:17:29. > :17:31.Europe, the UK. I think it is absolutely right the Prime Minister
:17:32. > :17:36.is prepared to take those kind of measures. Jeremy Corbyn said he
:17:37. > :17:41.wasn't prepared to take that. Because he wasn't sure what it would
:17:42. > :17:46.achieve. The Obama administration launched hundreds of drone strikes
:17:47. > :17:52.in various war zones and we in the west are still under attack on a
:17:53. > :17:58.regular basis. Mr Corbyn's basis was what would it achieve? It would
:17:59. > :18:02.achieve a safer position for the UK overall. The war on terrorists. But
:18:03. > :18:07.the Westminster attack, Paris has just been attacked again? There's
:18:08. > :18:11.been attacks which have been stopped by the intelligence services. We
:18:12. > :18:15.must do all we can to support them. The question was about drone
:18:16. > :18:20.strikes. Whether it is drone strikes or other action, we have to be
:18:21. > :18:24.prepared to act. Let's move on to Brexit. It is the major reason the
:18:25. > :18:28.Prime Minister's called the election? Not the only within but
:18:29. > :18:32.the main reason? It is one of the reasons. Now we start the two-year
:18:33. > :18:37.negotiations and then a year afterwards. Also the way in which
:18:38. > :18:40.certain people said they would try to use in the House of Lords or
:18:41. > :18:48.House of Commons to prevent us making progress. I think you'll put
:18:49. > :18:53.in your manifesto, it is the Government's policy, the Brexit
:18:54. > :19:00.negotiating position will be no more freedom of movement. Leave the
:19:01. > :19:03.single market and no longer under the jurisdiction Europe. You expect
:19:04. > :19:09.every Tory MP to fight on that manifesto. What will you do with Ken
:19:10. > :19:14.Clarke and Anna? They will have fought on their manifesto. They will
:19:15. > :19:17.understand the Prime Minister has the authority of the ballot box
:19:18. > :19:22.behind them. Will they fight the election on these positions? I'm
:19:23. > :19:27.sure they'll fight the election supporting the election of a
:19:28. > :19:30.Conservative Government and it's manifesto will quite clearly set
:19:31. > :19:35.out... You know they're against these positions. Ken Clarke has a
:19:36. > :19:39.prod tradition of expressing a certain view. Overall, the party's
:19:40. > :19:43.manifesto, it is not just individuals like Ken Clarke, it is
:19:44. > :19:47.what happens as far as the House of Lords are concerned, people said
:19:48. > :19:52.they'd use the House of Lords to prevent certain measures. You're the
:19:53. > :19:57.party chairman, will it be possible for people like Ken Clarke to fight
:19:58. > :20:02.this election under the Conservative ticket without sub describing to all
:20:03. > :20:08.-- subscribing to all of these Brexit conditions? Ken Clarke will
:20:09. > :20:12.fight as Conservative candidates. That wasn't my question. I know
:20:13. > :20:16.that. Will they be allowed to fight it on their own ticket and not
:20:17. > :20:20.subscribe to what is in your manifesto? The manifesto will be
:20:21. > :20:24.what the Conservative Party fights the General Election on. There will
:20:25. > :20:30.always be cases where people have had different views on different
:20:31. > :20:36.parts of the manifesto. That will be the guiding principles for the
:20:37. > :20:41.party. Philip Hammond says your election promises in 2015, in your
:20:42. > :20:45.manifesto not to raise taxes tied his hands when it came to managing
:20:46. > :20:50.the economy. Do you agree with him? No. The simple fact is we have to do
:20:51. > :20:54.the best things for the economy. We'll set out in our manifesto in a
:20:55. > :20:59.few weeks' time, what the policies will be for the next Parliament. Can
:21:00. > :21:05.I clarify, you don't agree with your Chancellor? What Philip was saying
:21:06. > :21:10.was some of the areas we wants to address as Chancellor, what the
:21:11. > :21:13.party will do, it will set out all the issues we're fighting on. It
:21:14. > :21:17.will set out clearly the choice we have in this country. That's the
:21:18. > :21:22.important thing. Let me put the question to you again. Philip
:21:23. > :21:25.Hammond said this week your election promise in 2015 not to raise taxes
:21:26. > :21:31.had tied his hands when it came to managing the economy. I ask you, do
:21:32. > :21:36.you agree with him? You said no. Philip expressed his view as to what
:21:37. > :21:41.he would like. What I'm saying is in a few weeks' time we'll set the
:21:42. > :21:45.manifesto which will set the policies, agreed with the the
:21:46. > :21:49.Cabinet. He's Chancellor. Doesn't he determine what the economic part of
:21:50. > :21:54.the manifesto is? We'll talk about that in due course. Will you have a
:21:55. > :21:59.lock on the taxes that you locked in 2015 on income tax, VAT, national
:22:00. > :22:06.insurance? That will be decided. You'll see that when we publish the
:22:07. > :22:10.manifesto in a few weeks' time. Will you rule out the possibility taxes
:22:11. > :22:15.may have to rise under a future Conservative Party? Conservative
:22:16. > :22:21.Government. We've taken four million people out of tax. Now, on average,
:22:22. > :22:27.people are paying ?1200 less tax than they were on the same salaries
:22:28. > :22:29.in 2010. I'm very provide of that. I can assure you, the Conservative
:22:30. > :22:33.Party will want to see taxes reduced. It is the Labour Party
:22:34. > :22:39.which will put up taxes. We have the evidence where this he did so.
:22:40. > :22:45.Council tax went up by over 100%. You haven't reduced the tax burden
:22:46. > :22:51.as a percentage of the GDP is now going to reach its highest level
:22:52. > :22:56.since the mid-180s which was when Conservatives were in power. The tax
:22:57. > :22:59.burden in this country under your Government is rising? We've more
:23:00. > :23:02.people paying taxes which is something, because we've a growing
:23:03. > :23:07.economy and more people... What about the tax band? You said you
:23:08. > :23:13.reduced the tax burden on your own Government's figures is rising? We
:23:14. > :23:17.have reduced the tax burden. The threshold at which people start
:23:18. > :23:23.paying. These are tax rates not the tax burden. It is rising. The tax
:23:24. > :23:28.rates have been reduced. You said tax burden. Perhaps I misspoke. Tax
:23:29. > :23:36.rates have been reduced. We'll leave it there. No doubt we'll speak again
:23:37. > :23:38.between now and June Is France now about to make it
:23:39. > :23:42.a hat-trick of shocks The prospect terrifies
:23:43. > :23:45.the governing elite in Paris. But they're no less scared
:23:46. > :23:47.in Brussels and Berlin, given what it could mean
:23:48. > :23:50.for the whole EU project, never mind the huge potential impact
:23:51. > :24:09.on our own Brexit negotiations. 11 candidates are contesting
:24:10. > :24:12.the first round of the presidential Only the top two will go forward
:24:13. > :24:18.to the run-off on May 7th. For the first time since General De
:24:19. > :24:23.Gaulle created the fifth Republic in 1958, it's perfectly possible that
:24:24. > :24:27.no candidate from the ruling parties of the centre-left or the
:24:28. > :24:30.centre-right will even make it The election has been dominated by
:24:31. > :24:37.the hard right in the shape of the who's never been elected
:24:38. > :24:44.to anything and only started his own party
:24:45. > :24:46.a few months ago. And the far left in the form
:24:47. > :24:49.of Jean-Luc Melenchon, a former Trotskyite who has surged
:24:50. > :24:53.in the final weeks of the campaign. The only candidate left from the
:24:54. > :24:56.traditional governing parties is the centre-right's
:24:57. > :24:59.Francois Fillon and he's been struggling to stay in
:25:00. > :25:02.the race ever since it was revealed that his Welsh wife was being paid
:25:03. > :25:08.at generous public expense for a job I've just come across
:25:09. > :25:22.this magazine cover and it kind of sums up the mood
:25:23. > :25:25.of the French people. It's got the five main candidates
:25:26. > :25:29.for President here but it calls them the biggest liar, the biggest cheat,
:25:30. > :25:32.the biggest traitor, the most paranoid, the biggest demagogue,
:25:33. > :25:34.and it says they are the winners The four leading candidates,
:25:35. > :25:45.Le Pen, Melenchon, Macron and Fillon, or in with a chance
:25:46. > :25:48.of making it to the second round. Only a couple of points separates
:25:49. > :25:50.them in the polls, Frankly, no one has a clue what's
:25:51. > :25:57.going to happen. Of the four, there is a feeling that
:25:58. > :26:02.two of them may be President But the two of them may not find
:26:03. > :26:15.themselves in the second round. Somebody said to me that the man or
:26:16. > :26:29.woman on the Paris Metro has as much a chance of knowing
:26:30. > :26:32.who will win as the greatest experts Because the more expert you are
:26:33. > :26:39.the more you may be wrong. The country has largely
:26:40. > :26:44.stagnated for over a decade. One in ten are unemployed,
:26:45. > :26:47.one in four if you are unlucky Like Britain in the '70s there is
:26:48. > :26:51.the pervasive stench There are three keywords that come
:26:52. > :26:59.to mind. Anger, anger at the elite, and in
:27:00. > :27:05.particular the political elite. And an element of
:27:06. > :27:11.nostalgia for the past. These three words were decisive
:27:12. > :27:15.in the Brexit referendum. They are decisive in
:27:16. > :27:26.the French election. Identity and security has been
:27:27. > :27:30.as important in this election France is a proud nation, it worries
:27:31. > :27:37.about its future in Europe It seems bereft of ideas about how
:27:38. > :27:42.to deal with its largely Muslim migrant population, huge chunks of
:27:43. > :27:45.which are increasingly divorced It is quite simply exhausted by
:27:46. > :27:56.the never-ending Islamist terrorist attacks, the latest only days before
:27:57. > :27:59.voting in the iconic heart of this If Fillon or Macron emerge
:28:00. > :28:10.victorious then there will be continuity of sorts, though Fillon
:28:11. > :28:14.will struggle to implement his Thatcherite agenda and Macron will
:28:15. > :28:18.not be able to count on the support of the French parliament, the
:28:19. > :28:21.National Assembly, for his reforms. But if it's Le Pen or Jean-Luc
:28:22. > :28:27.Melenchon then all bets are off. Both are hardline French
:28:28. > :28:30.nationalists, anti the euro, anti the European Union, anti-fiscal
:28:31. > :28:33.discipline, anti the market, Either in the Elysee Palace
:28:34. > :28:42.would represent an existential Brexit would simply become
:28:43. > :28:51.a sideshow, the negotiations could just peter out as Brussels
:28:52. > :28:56.and Berlin had bigger fish to fry. We're joined now from
:28:57. > :29:07.Paris by the journalist 8th Welcome to the programme.
:29:08. > :29:11.Overshadowing the voting today was yet another appalling terrorist
:29:12. > :29:18.attack in Paris on Thursday night. Do we have any indications of how
:29:19. > :29:22.that's playing into the election? That initially people thought this
:29:23. > :29:27.has been almost foiled in that the police were there as a ramp up. One
:29:28. > :29:31.policeman was killed. But the terrorist did not spray the crowd
:29:32. > :29:37.with bullets. It was seen as not having much of an effect on the
:29:38. > :29:43.election. This has changed. We now know the policeman who was killed, a
:29:44. > :29:48.young man about to the promoted, he was at the Bataclan the night of the
:29:49. > :29:55.terror attack. He was a fighter for LGBT rights. The fact he was
:29:56. > :30:02.promoted, happy within his job, he has this fresh face. Sudden, he's
:30:03. > :30:07.one of us. It took perhaps 48 hours for the French to process this. But
:30:08. > :30:13.now they're angry and this may actually change the game, at least
:30:14. > :30:20.at the margins. To whose advantage? I would say the two who might
:30:21. > :30:24.benefit from this are Marine Le Pen, she's been absolutely
:30:25. > :30:29.anti-immigration, anti-anything. And made no bones about it as she
:30:30. > :30:32.immediately made rather strange announcement in which she'd said if
:30:33. > :30:36.she'd been president none of the terror attacks which happened in
:30:37. > :30:44.France would have happened. Francois Fillon has written a book two years
:30:45. > :30:48.ago called Combating Islamic Terrorism he's has an organised plan
:30:49. > :30:52.in his manifesto. Unlike Emmanuel Macron who stumbled when he was
:30:53. > :30:57.asked the evening this happened what he thought, he said, I can't dream
:30:58. > :31:00.up an anti-terror programme overnight. The question, of course,
:31:01. > :31:04.that arrows was this is not the sort of thing that's just happened
:31:05. > :31:10.overnight. It's been unfortunately the fate of France for many years.
:31:11. > :31:15.Let me ask you this finally, what ever the outcome on May 7th in the
:31:16. > :31:21.second round, who ever wins, would it be fair to say French politics
:31:22. > :31:24.will never be the same again? Yes. Absolutely it's a very strange
:31:25. > :31:29.thing. People have no become really excited about this. You cannot go
:31:30. > :31:33.anywhere without people discussing heatedly this election. The anger
:31:34. > :31:40.that was described is very accurate. Very true. There was this feeling as
:31:41. > :31:44.for the Brexit voters and the Trump voters, vast parts of the people
:31:45. > :31:50.were being talked down to by people who despised them. This has to
:31:51. > :31:56.change. If it doesn't change, we cannot predict what the future will
:31:57. > :32:01.be. We'll know the results or at least the ex-the Poll London time
:32:02. > :32:02.tonight at 8.00pm. Thank for joining us from the glorious heart of your
:32:03. > :32:06.city. Now, the Green Party currently has
:32:07. > :32:09.one MP and they'll be contesting many more seats in June
:32:10. > :32:12.as well as hoping to increase their presence on councils in
:32:13. > :32:15.the local elections on 4th May. Launching their campaign
:32:16. > :32:16.on Thursday, co-leader Caroline Lucas made
:32:17. > :32:18.a pitch to younger voters. When it comes to young
:32:19. > :32:20.people they've been But one crucial way they've been
:32:21. > :32:25.betrayed is by what this generation and this government and the previous
:32:26. > :32:28.ones have been doing when it comes We know we had the hottest year
:32:29. > :32:33.on record last year, you know, you almost think what else does
:32:34. > :32:36.the environment need to be doing All the signs are there
:32:37. > :32:39.and it is young people who are going to be bearing
:32:40. > :32:42.the brunt of a wrecked environment and that's why it's so important
:32:43. > :32:46.that when we come to making that pitch to, yes, the country at large
:32:47. > :32:49.but to young people in particular, I think climate change,
:32:50. > :32:50.the environment, looking after our precious resources,
:32:51. > :32:55.has to be up there. And I'm joined now by the Green
:32:56. > :33:10.MEP, Molly Scott Cato. Welcome back to the programme.
:33:11. > :33:13.Promised to scrap university tuition fees, increase NHS funding, rollback
:33:14. > :33:17.cuts to local councils spending, how much would that cost and how would
:33:18. > :33:20.you pay for it? Like the other parties we haven't got a costed
:33:21. > :33:23.manifesto yet, it's only a few days since the election was announced so
:33:24. > :33:27.I will come back and explain the figures. You don't know? Like every
:33:28. > :33:33.party we have not produced accosted manifesto yet, we produced one last
:33:34. > :33:36.time but public spending figures have changed so we're not in a
:33:37. > :33:41.position to do that but we will be in a week or so. What taxes would
:33:42. > :33:45.you like to consider raising? We would consider having higher taxes
:33:46. > :33:50.for the better off in society. I think we need to increase the amount
:33:51. > :33:53.of tax wealthier people pay. How do you define better off? I'm not
:33:54. > :33:59.entirely clear what the precise number would be but I think 100,000
:34:00. > :34:03.people would pay a bit more, 150,000 quite considerably more but the real
:34:04. > :34:06.focus needs to be on companies avoiding paying taxes. I work on
:34:07. > :34:09.that a lot in my role in the European Parliament, we see an
:34:10. > :34:13.enormous amount of tax avoidance by companies moving profits from
:34:14. > :34:16.country to country and we need European corporation to make that
:34:17. > :34:22.successful. It has not made much difference yet. We have made lots of
:34:23. > :34:26.changes. Google turned over $1 billion and only paid 25 million in
:34:27. > :34:30.taxes last year. There was a significant fine introduced by the
:34:31. > :34:34.competition commission on Apple and in the case of Google we must change
:34:35. > :34:40.the laws so that people cannot move profits from country to country.
:34:41. > :34:43.Everybody wants to do it. But you couldn't face a big spending
:34:44. > :34:47.programme on the ability to do that. You'd have to increase other taxes.
:34:48. > :34:50.If you look at the cost of free student tuition, tuition fees and
:34:51. > :34:54.also maintenance grants to students, that would come in at about 10
:34:55. > :34:57.billion a year. One way of paying for that would be to remove the
:34:58. > :35:01.upper threshold on National Insurance, bringing in 20 billion a
:35:02. > :35:05.year, that's the order of magnitude we are talking about. It is not
:35:06. > :35:09.vast, and some of the proposals we have... That would be an increase on
:35:10. > :35:16.the better of tax? National Insurance on people earning...
:35:17. > :35:20.People earning above 42,000. You would have another 10% tax above
:35:21. > :35:26.42,000? I can't remember exactly how much the National Insurance rate
:35:27. > :35:30.changes by. But in government figures it would be 28 billion
:35:31. > :35:34.raised. I think it is up to 45, a bit more you pay a marginal rate of
:35:35. > :35:38.40%, you would have them pay a marginal rate of over 50%? We would
:35:39. > :35:43.put the National Insurance rate on higher incomes the same as it is on
:35:44. > :35:46.lower incomes. If you are a school head of an English department on 50,
:35:47. > :35:52.60,000 a year you would face a marginal rate under U of over 50%?
:35:53. > :35:57.It is not useful to do this as a mental maths exercise but if you
:35:58. > :36:01.look at other proposals would could have a landlord licensing system,
:36:02. > :36:04.longer term leases on properties, so young people particularly, but also
:36:05. > :36:07.older people who rent, could have more security which needn't cost
:36:08. > :36:12.anything. We could insist on landlords paying for that. The
:36:13. > :36:16.mental arithmetic seems clear but we will come back to that. How is the
:36:17. > :36:20.Progressive Alliance coming? It is going well, I have heard of a lot of
:36:21. > :36:25.interest at local level. Winterset this in contest, context, lots of
:36:26. > :36:30.progressives are concerned about the crisis in public services, prisons,
:36:31. > :36:33.social care system, and also about the Tories' hard extreme Brexit they
:36:34. > :36:38.are threatening. You want the left to come together? Theresa May has
:36:39. > :36:41.given us opportunity, she has taken a risk because she has problems with
:36:42. > :36:45.backbenchers, she doesn't think she can get through Brexit with a small
:36:46. > :36:48.majority so there is an opportunity and we are saying progressives must
:36:49. > :36:51.come together to corporate, Conservatives are effective at using
:36:52. > :36:56.the first-past-the-post system and we have to become effective as well.
:36:57. > :36:59.Do you accept this Progressive Alliance cannot become the
:37:00. > :37:03.government and Mr Corbyn is the Prime Minister? How could it happen
:37:04. > :37:07.otherwise? I think that is a secondary question. For me the
:37:08. > :37:10.primary question is who do people choose to vote for? Aluminium
:37:11. > :37:14.government afterwards comes after the election. In most countries that
:37:15. > :37:17.is the case. I understand that but we have the system we have and you
:37:18. > :37:21.accept this Progressive Alliance cannot be in power and thus mystical
:37:22. > :37:24.Burmese Prime Minister? Personally I think Mr Corbyn is less of a threat
:37:25. > :37:27.to the country than Theresa May, she has shown herself to be an
:37:28. > :37:34.authoritarian leader and she has said she doesn't want to have
:37:35. > :37:36.dissidents, which I would say is reasonable opposition, and what we
:37:37. > :37:38.are suggesting at the moment is there is a way of avoiding that very
:37:39. > :37:41.hard Brexit and damage to public services. You'd be happy to pay the
:37:42. > :37:46.price of having Mr Corbyn as Prime Minister? I do not see that as a
:37:47. > :37:50.price. People have the choice of Jeremy Corbyn or Theresa May as
:37:51. > :37:54.Prime Minister, that's the system that works. You would prefer Mr
:37:55. > :37:57.Corbyn? I would but votes are translated into seats and the
:37:58. > :37:59.Progressive Alliance is a step towards that.
:38:00. > :38:01.It's just gone 3:50pm, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:38:02. > :38:03.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, Wales
:38:04. > :38:05.and Northern Ireland who leave us now.
:38:06. > :38:15.Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead.
:38:16. > :38:17.Welcome to Sunday Politics South - my name's Peter Henley.
:38:18. > :38:20.And you'll not be surprised to hear that we're in election mode this
:38:21. > :38:23.week, and I'm joined by three politicians who'll all be asking
:38:24. > :38:25.for your vote in just under seven weeks time.
:38:26. > :38:27.Layla Moran will be standing for the Liberal Democrats
:38:28. > :38:30.in Oxford West and Abingdon, as she did in 2015.
:38:31. > :38:32.Alan Whitehead will be hoping to once again be the Labour MP
:38:33. > :38:34.for Southampton Test, and Flick Drummond is standing
:38:35. > :38:37.for the Conservatives in Portsmouth South,
:38:38. > :38:39.which she first won for them two years ago.
:38:40. > :38:44.We'll be hearing a lot over the next couple of months
:38:45. > :38:46.about strong leadership, strength of opinion,
:38:47. > :38:58.As it happens there were some experts in Southampton this week...
:38:59. > :39:09.The competition to find the world's strongest man.
:39:10. > :39:14.In politics, of course, it's not just about strength,
:39:15. > :39:21.Do you think strength is important in a politician?
:39:22. > :39:29.Be in the game with your head, make sure you're saying
:39:30. > :39:32.the right things, make sure you have the right back-up.
:39:33. > :39:34.It's about providing the strong and stable
:39:35. > :39:40.It's about strengthening our hand in the negotiations that lie ahead.
:39:41. > :39:43.It's all about strength, it's all about caring as well.
:39:44. > :39:47.You know, the country is so divided between the rich and the poor,
:39:48. > :39:52.You think Jeremy Corbyn is maybe not the stronger but the better person?
:39:53. > :40:00.I know which side I am on, you know which side you're on.
:40:01. > :40:03.What did you think of Theresa May calling an election like this?
:40:04. > :40:07.I think that makes her quite a powerful person, actually,
:40:08. > :40:14.However you voted last June, to vote to have a decent,
:40:15. > :40:17.You have moral strength and you've got to have courage
:40:18. > :40:26.When you make a decision, if it's right, and maybe not everyone
:40:27. > :40:31.will agree with that, but as long as you stick with that.
:40:32. > :40:33.Isn't it extraordinary that the Prime Minister
:40:34. > :40:40.of our country can't even urge his party to support his own position!
:40:41. > :40:51.Whoever would make the toughest Prime Minister, the strength
:40:52. > :40:54.of parties in the south of England is clear.
:40:55. > :41:00.The 2015 election saw conservatives clear out
:41:01. > :41:04.Liberal Democrats in Eastleigh, Portsmouth and Mid Dorset.
:41:05. > :41:08.They also took the Labour seat of Southampton Itchen.
:41:09. > :41:10.And this time two of the South's long established Labour MPs have
:41:11. > :41:15.Fiona McTaggart in Slough and Andrew Smith in Oxford.
:41:16. > :41:17.Both will now have candidates selected by the National
:41:18. > :41:23.Yes, it would have been nicer if local members could be involved.
:41:24. > :41:28.We have received assurances, though, that in the selection process,
:41:29. > :41:31.very close attentions will of course be paid to the calibre and relevant
:41:32. > :41:37.Very close attention will be given to local links.
:41:38. > :41:41.Speaker John Bercow, who previously said he would serve just two terms,
:41:42. > :41:47.Traditionally the Speaker is unopposed, though some voters
:41:48. > :41:49.in Buckingham said they would rather have a contest.
:41:50. > :41:52.It's annoying not having a vote that counts.
:41:53. > :41:56.You can't vote for the other major parties which is the entire point
:41:57. > :42:00.It can be a bit annoying if you have different views to the Speaker,
:42:01. > :42:03.but that's just the way it goes, I suppose.
:42:04. > :42:06.Try to calm down and behave like an adult.
:42:07. > :42:10.Politics can be a bruising business, as well as a test of strength.
:42:11. > :42:13.On the tire flip today, Big Z, four times world champion.
:42:14. > :42:21.Where they know a strong man - or woman - when they see one.
:42:22. > :42:43.Wighton the strong woman. Plainly Theresa May is the strongest leader.
:42:44. > :42:48.It depends what you mean by strength. It's important that you
:42:49. > :42:49.were strong in your convictions, that you were strong in your
:42:50. > :42:54.leadership of Hugh you were leading. leadership of Hugh you were leading.
:42:55. > :42:58.But if also a question of being strong in understanding the other
:42:59. > :43:02.side and making sure that everybody is united together. In going forward
:43:03. > :43:12.and to go about what's you claim is and to go about what's you claim is
:43:13. > :43:15.a test of strength. Whilst on the other hand suggesting that there
:43:16. > :43:20.should be no opposition, but you should just rush head without
:43:21. > :43:22.thinking properly all the consequences of it. That is
:43:23. > :43:25.strength. That is possible strength. That is possible
:43:26. > :43:32.foolhardiness. Possibly even reckless. What do you think? She
:43:33. > :43:37.didn't need to call this election. Does that make her strength or could
:43:38. > :43:41.backfire? I think she has done a very good thing. If you look at what
:43:42. > :43:51.would have been the next General Election, in 2020, with negotiations
:43:52. > :43:55.and 2019, it's really important that we guess, she gets it over and done
:43:56. > :43:59.with by the time of the next General Election, otherwise it would all be
:44:00. > :44:07.blurred into what we put into our next manifesto. She is very clever
:44:08. > :44:10.to do it now and not later. Clever maybe, but what you are suggesting
:44:11. > :44:13.there is the reason she has gone for election is not the one she was
:44:14. > :44:17.giving us. She was saying she was doing this because the country is
:44:18. > :44:24.coming together on Brexit but there is so much parliamentary opposition.
:44:25. > :44:29.I think that is part of it as well. There is a lot of discussion in
:44:30. > :44:33.Parliament. It is holding it back, a lot of the negotiations back from
:44:34. > :44:36.all sides. What she wants to do is really have a strong mandate, which
:44:37. > :44:39.I hope she will do, to take it forward and be able to be that
:44:40. > :44:45.strong leader to go to Europe make sure we get the right Brexit
:44:46. > :44:49.negotiations. That's what people want. Take what forward, that's the
:44:50. > :44:53.question. She is advocating removing us from the single market, which in
:44:54. > :44:58.Oxford and Abingdon will be disastrous for the economy. What
:44:59. > :45:03.does she want us to unite behind? Her definition of united is to shut
:45:04. > :45:06.everyone else up. Public opinion surely is strong on this, as it
:45:07. > :45:11.wants to be strong and representing about. What's your calling for in
:45:12. > :45:16.the Lib Dems, the second referendum, is not what the public want. That's
:45:17. > :45:20.not true. We are hearing that people want to have more say. We have said
:45:21. > :45:25.that the little system in this country is broken. We need
:45:26. > :45:29.proportional representation to engage people more. In something as
:45:30. > :45:33.important as coming out of the EU, the people need to have a say on
:45:34. > :45:43.that final deal. I'm not going to sign a blank cheque to Theresa May
:45:44. > :45:47.in the selection. It isn't going to enhance the position particularly in
:45:48. > :45:51.negotiating with the EU. It certainly will. She will have that
:45:52. > :46:04.extra time to be able to prepare for this to make sure exactly right.
:46:05. > :46:08.Instead of having to do it in 2019, it's really important that she can
:46:09. > :46:10.absolutely straight on the bushy Asians. She's not going to
:46:11. > :46:13.concentrating on another General concentrating on another General
:46:14. > :46:22.Election in 2020. She can literally... -- focusing on the
:46:23. > :46:26.general elections. That's what we want to avoid with the second
:46:27. > :46:30.something that the country is something that the country is
:46:31. > :46:36.supposedly united on. When we voted for Brexit, Brexit is being asked
:46:37. > :46:42.down, but the consequence of Brexit are certainly not done. Nor is the
:46:43. > :46:48.country united on exactly what those consequences are going to be. It is
:46:49. > :46:52.really not strong leadership to simply say, well, I'm going to go
:46:53. > :46:57.with perhaps a small group of my own party, the far right of my party,
:46:58. > :47:02.who want to see us undertaking a Brexit where we cut all ties with
:47:03. > :47:08.everybody, we go off into the world with no trade deals, which actually
:47:09. > :47:13.keep us associated with the EU, that we abandon all sorts of arrangements
:47:14. > :47:19.which were... These are all the things you believe! She's not doing
:47:20. > :47:24.that, she has talked about free trade with Europe. Those are the
:47:25. > :47:30.sorts of things we are going to do. I don't understand where this had
:47:31. > :47:38.Brexit comes from. If you listen to her,... That's what you are putting
:47:39. > :47:43.through people's tourists. She needs a strong mandate but that doesn't
:47:44. > :47:47.this camp of people saying she wants this camp of people saying she wants
:47:48. > :47:55.to have more seats in parliament so she can water it down? Know, so she
:47:56. > :47:58.can get the right Brexit. Free trade with Europe, which she has been very
:47:59. > :48:02.clear on, and free trade with other countries as well. She will have to
:48:03. > :48:07.give up some immigration control them. We have talked about
:48:08. > :48:13.immigration control and the status of EU nationals. This is the point
:48:14. > :48:17.is, we have in Scotland are gushy oceans. Article 50 has only just
:48:18. > :48:20.time to put things in place. She time to put things in place. She
:48:21. > :48:28.will now have longer to do that, she won't have the chance of the General
:48:29. > :48:31.Election turning up in 2020. So this is the wrong time to call an
:48:32. > :48:38.election. Those things could have been done anyway if that's what was
:48:39. > :48:41.going to be the scenario. Before Article 50? Is quite untrue that
:48:42. > :48:44.Parliament was somehow obstructing the process of Brexit, but what
:48:45. > :48:48.an issue is what kind of Brexit it an issue is what kind of Brexit it
:48:49. > :48:53.should be and what is best for Britain. That is not served by just
:48:54. > :48:59.saying, I'm going down a certain direction. The Labour Party is not
:49:00. > :49:04.going to make this any clearer. Our candidates going to say precisely
:49:05. > :49:07.what they want to see? Absolutely. Labour has already said that there
:49:08. > :49:14.are six tests for Brexit in the negotiations are complete. Should be
:49:15. > :49:20.a parliament revote, if those tests had mats, Labour will not vote at
:49:21. > :49:27.that point with... Why he -- that's why she called the election, because
:49:28. > :49:32.of this sort of opposition. She won't be ignoring its because she's
:49:33. > :49:35.not the sort of person. But also, we have had endless discussions
:49:36. > :49:40.constantly holding her back, going forward is a lot with the Lib Dems,
:49:41. > :49:43.the SNP and Labour as well. She really needs this a strong mandate
:49:44. > :49:48.to get the negotiations absolutely right in the best interests of the
:49:49. > :49:53.country. Let's move on a different Brexit because it will just be a
:49:54. > :49:57.Brexit election. Are you going to be arguing other things? Reed of
:49:58. > :50:00.course. An election is about the entire country and what kind of
:50:01. > :50:07.country we want to be on what kind of values. We have some very strong
:50:08. > :50:10.local issues that we wants to hold the Conservatives and the local area
:50:11. > :50:16.to account for, which isn't just about Brexit. But Brexit is the main
:50:17. > :50:18.issue, because what is happening as we are totally distracted in terms
:50:19. > :50:25.debates, from the real issues that debates, from the real issues that
:50:26. > :50:28.are facing this country. At a time when the economy isn't doing great
:50:29. > :50:33.and people are beginning to feel the pinch again. She wants to take us
:50:34. > :50:37.down a career pass down a big mountain. We have no idea what other
:50:38. > :50:40.bottom. It's going to be the big issue of the selection. I'm
:50:41. > :50:44.delighted we are having one so we can start you are what are some of
:50:45. > :50:49.the issues. And then we can talk about the NHS, which is completely
:50:50. > :50:55.underfunded. One of the big promises believe campaign, the ?350 billion
:50:56. > :50:59.for the NHS, where is it? You have just brought it back to the EU
:51:00. > :51:05.again! Because it is the main issue. These are connected to some extent
:51:06. > :51:11.inasmuch as the kind of Brexit that we end up with also means what kind
:51:12. > :51:16.of society we have the future. One of the things that really concerns
:51:17. > :51:20.me about this election is that a lot of the issues, like what kind of
:51:21. > :51:24.national health service we have in the future, what about our
:51:25. > :51:28.children's education, was about things like social care, which is
:51:29. > :51:33.eyes, for the future. Do we have a eyes, for the future. Do we have a
:51:34. > :51:36.society which is inclusive on all those matters or do we have a
:51:37. > :51:42.minimal state where those things don't happen? The danger is those
:51:43. > :51:48.fundamental changes to our society may be smuggled in under the
:51:49. > :51:55.Brexit. The election is about lots Brexit. The election is about lots
:51:56. > :51:58.more than Brexit. Jeremy Corbyn is leading your party. Today have
:51:59. > :52:04.already seen the talk about would he authorise a drone strike. What about
:52:05. > :52:09.your policy on nuclear weapons? How can people trust to Jeremy Corbyn
:52:10. > :52:15.over Theresa May on those issues? Journey is a very honest, decent,
:52:16. > :52:18.caring man. I think on this particular occasion, if he was
:52:19. > :52:21.guilty of anything it was stating guilty of anything it was stating
:52:22. > :52:23.exactly the position that was in front of us, which is the
:52:24. > :52:26.manifestos, because the election was manifestos, because the election was
:52:27. > :52:36.called at a Tuesday's notice, have not yet... He was saying that the
:52:37. > :52:40.manifesto is not yet out but what we do know is that that is already
:52:41. > :52:44.Labour Party policy. That will pretty certainly be in the
:52:45. > :52:49.manifesto. What was being stated is what is Labour Party policy right
:52:50. > :52:52.now, it is about renewal of Trident. That is pretty likely to be in a
:52:53. > :52:58.manifesto but the manifesto is not yet published. That is exactly the
:52:59. > :53:04.position we're in. This is important for defence areas. That they get
:53:05. > :53:08.that sort of answer. But also so is schools funding and your government
:53:09. > :53:11.has had the last couple of years and the money is not going into schools.
:53:12. > :53:15.Parents will be picky about that when they vote as well as the
:53:16. > :53:21.leadership of Brexit. And we have more good schools than we ever have
:53:22. > :53:25.before, particularly in Portsmouth. But the rest schools which might
:53:26. > :53:31.under consultation. School reform under consultation. School reform
:53:32. > :53:37.has been asked for by teachers for a very long time. We are looking at
:53:38. > :53:42.the consultation to make sure no school misses out but in Portsmouth
:53:43. > :53:45.are schools in 2010 and failing schools, we now have two outstanding
:53:46. > :53:53.schools, a good school had lots of other... At the moment, the deficit
:53:54. > :53:58.repayment has shifted up to 2022 when George Osborne wanted it paid
:53:59. > :54:03.by last... The economy is starting to go up, it is growing. The CBI
:54:04. > :54:11.forecast Joseph going out, manufacturing going on. Which we --
:54:12. > :54:14.would you mind if we lost the triple lock? I hope it would be in the
:54:15. > :54:17.manifesto. It's very clear that pensioners like it. Of course I'm
:54:18. > :54:22.not someone who will be making those decisions. Is going
:54:23. > :54:27.... I don't know what being a manifesto.
:54:28. > :54:29.Now, believe it or not there was some other
:54:30. > :54:31.non-election-related news this week - here's our regular
:54:32. > :54:34.On parade at Sandhurst, the Prime Minister warned
:54:35. > :54:39.new officers of the volatility of times ahead -
:54:40. > :54:48.In Alton, a careers fair for over '50s.
:54:49. > :54:56.A growing number like gardner Penny Holmes enjoying part-tirement.
:54:57. > :55:01.As assaults on prison staff reached a record high,
:55:02. > :55:06.two Dorset officers spoke about their fears of attack.
:55:07. > :55:09.Before you even start, your head's thinking, how am
:55:10. > :55:11.I going to get through this without being assaulted?
:55:12. > :55:13.They blame overcrowding, staff shortages and a growing
:55:14. > :55:17.Chinese money is behind a plan to build a replica Titanic
:55:18. > :55:21.Though descendants of those who died think it is in bad taste.
:55:22. > :55:24.If he knew this was being replicated, I think he'd be
:55:25. > :55:31.Finally the Badger Trust is warning new houses in Oxfordshire
:55:32. > :55:32.are destroying sets, forcing animals
:55:33. > :55:41.They want planners to do more to protect them.
:55:42. > :55:52.That's the Sunday Politics in the South, thanks
:55:53. > :55:58.Now were going to lose the prison and Courts Bill. We are losing a lot
:55:59. > :56:04.of things that weren't going through. Does that bother you?
:56:05. > :56:08.Hugely. Because it was such a shock to everybody, there wasn't time to
:56:09. > :56:13.plan to make sure that things that were incredibly important like
:56:14. > :56:14.prison reform going to happen. That said, we need to make sure the
:56:15. > :56:18.direction the country is going in is direction the country is going in is
:56:19. > :56:22.have this opportunity to put other have this opportunity to put other
:56:23. > :56:25.points of view forward. The Liberal Democrats want a more restorative,
:56:26. > :56:27.preventative justice system. So we don't have as many people there in
:56:28. > :56:31.the first place. This is our chance the first place. This is our chance
:56:32. > :56:34.to start talking about that. To you think the big law firms who were
:56:35. > :56:39.campaigning against some of the changes won't that campaign? I think
:56:40. > :56:44.it was one of those coincidences but I think it underlines the president
:56:45. > :56:50.at nature of how the selection was thought about and how it was called.
:56:51. > :56:55.parliaments and in full of things to parliaments and in full of things to
:56:56. > :56:57.wash up. I'm very sorry that the prison and Courts Bill is
:56:58. > :57:02.disappearing because I think there disappearing because I think there
:57:03. > :57:06.are a lot of good things in it. And a compensation culture was something
:57:07. > :57:12.I think all sides agreed on. It is just one of those accidents, you
:57:13. > :57:14.might say. Actually, I think underlines probably the
:57:15. > :57:18.responsibility of doing this in the way it was done. It could have been
:57:19. > :57:24.done much better, we could have had a test in front of the country with
:57:25. > :57:27.a reasonable order behind it. Took about seven weeks campaign and it is
:57:28. > :57:31.a short one because of the local elections, but there is time for
:57:32. > :57:36.people to get a little bit, why are we having to go through this again?
:57:37. > :57:41.Already on the doorsteps people were saying that. As we go through and
:57:42. > :57:45.find out, looking at the manifesto, it gives them another opportunity to
:57:46. > :57:48.go out and vote which is one of the reasons I'm so against aggressive
:57:49. > :57:52.alliance, because you want to vote for one party with their manifesto
:57:53. > :57:57.rather than blurring the lines. Is a chance this will develop? In terms
:57:58. > :58:03.of a progressive alliance, I very much doubt there is any kind of time
:58:04. > :58:08.to do that. We will be appealing to voters from the aggressive alliance
:58:09. > :58:14.in the electorate to come together behind one candidate.
:58:15. > :58:25.Whitelaw last six there is a sort of, I'm normally Labour about... In
:58:26. > :58:29.terms of the way the election has been cast, which is vote from me and
:58:30. > :58:34.should be no opposition whatsoever, and that will be somehow united
:58:35. > :58:37.country, the temptation, I would think, to vote tactically and said
:58:38. > :58:44.it should be a proper debate going on here and other should not be just
:58:45. > :58:47.homogenous representation in parliaments and making sure there is
:58:48. > :58:49.the best representation in parliament could be on people of
:58:50. > :58:52.like minds. Obviously we want to like minds. Obviously we want to
:58:53. > :58:55.make sure that Labour wins the actions we have an alternative
:58:56. > :58:57.parts of the country people will be parts of the country people will
:58:58. > :59:02.saying to themselves, Dubai really saying to themselves, Dubai really
:59:03. > :59:11.want to be the first past the post system is simply for that? People
:59:12. > :59:15.says she didn't have a mandate because she wasn't elected by the
:59:16. > :59:19.country. She is now having a General Election will stop everyone on the
:59:20. > :59:32.streets that I have spoken to so far is very behind her. Of course now
:59:33. > :59:36.she will have a mandate. She is actively ignoring 48% of the
:59:37. > :59:41.going about this had Brexit. She is going about this had Brexit. She
:59:42. > :59:42.talking about this coalition of talking about this coalition
:59:43. > :59:45.chaos which is where this chaos which is where this
:59:46. > :59:52.progressive alliance thing has come from. As Lib Dems, we will not be
:59:53. > :59:55.forming a coalition with anyone. There is no coalition of chaos. It
:59:56. > :00:00.cannot happen and it will not happen. I don't know where she is
:00:01. > :00:06.going with this. The coalition was the last election. Is up to the
:00:07. > :00:15.other parties but I think it's very clear that she's going to have a
:00:16. > :00:21.very strong manifesto. We had a coalition a few years ago. That
:00:22. > :00:29.wasn't a coalition of chaos, apparently? A lot of this is just
:00:30. > :00:36.nonsense for the purpose of trying to frame an election. In a way that
:00:37. > :00:43.ducks a lot of the real issues in front of us. That's what I want to
:00:44. > :00:46.get on the floor. I'm going out with my positive message. I'm looking for
:00:47. > :00:49.social reform which is what Theresa May has been talking about
:00:50. > :00:53.breakthrough. I will also make sure that we get a very good deal out of
:00:54. > :00:54.Europe and that's what she wants to do.
:00:55. > :00:56.That's the Sunday Politics in the South, thanks
:00:57. > :00:58.to my guests Layla Moran, Alan Whitehead and Flick Drummond.
:00:59. > :01:01.Don't forget South Today and your local radio station will be
:01:02. > :01:03.keeping you up to date with the election campaign
:01:04. > :01:05.throughout the week and we'll be back next Sunday looking
:01:06. > :01:09.For now, though, it's back to Andrew.
:01:10. > :01:18.on issues like the NHS. Run out of time. Andrew, back to you.
:01:19. > :01:24.Now, Ukip have made their first significant policy announcement
:01:25. > :01:30.of the election campaign today with a call for a ban on wearing
:01:31. > :01:36.But is it a policy that will meet with the approval of the man
:01:37. > :01:38.who bankrolled the party's last general election campaign?
:01:39. > :01:45.Hello, Andrew. Let me see if I can clarify some things, are you a
:01:46. > :01:52.member of Ukip? I a patron of Ukip so I don't stop being a member. So
:01:53. > :01:56.you are still a member? I am, apparently for life. Are you still
:01:57. > :02:02.hoping to bankroll Ukip? Not at the moment. Why is that? The internal
:02:03. > :02:07.problems we have had in Ukip have been aired, and a lot needs to
:02:08. > :02:11.happen in the party in terms of professionalising it and I think it
:02:12. > :02:16.is ill-prepared for this general election. Are you going to run in
:02:17. > :02:24.Clacton? I will be if selected. For Ukip? Yes. Have you been to Clacton?
:02:25. > :02:27.I've been with Nigel Mansell on the campaign. You will run for a
:02:28. > :02:33.constituency you've only been in once? Yes, why does that surprise
:02:34. > :02:38.you? You know nothing about it. I've just recently decided to become the
:02:39. > :02:42.candidate there. Did you know where it is? Of course I do, your piece
:02:43. > :02:46.the other night was completely wrong. I said I knew where it was
:02:47. > :02:53.but I didn't know much about it. Maybe the people of Clacton will
:02:54. > :02:59.regard you as a carpetbagger? Why? Because you have never been there.
:03:00. > :03:03.Most politicians are carpetbaggers and I will be there for the right
:03:04. > :03:09.reasons. I thought it was because of your visceral hatred of Douglas
:03:10. > :03:12.Carswell. He only lasted 24 hours after I announced my candidacy so we
:03:13. > :03:15.will see what happens. The main thing I am going to Clacton on
:03:16. > :03:19.Monday to meet the Ukip councillors, see what the issues are and see if
:03:20. > :03:25.they want me as a candidate. They may not want me. Who do you think
:03:26. > :03:31.you will be up against? The potential Conservative candidate.
:03:32. > :03:36.Who in Ukip? I don't suppose anyone in Ukip will stand against me, I
:03:37. > :03:44.wouldn't have thought. Really? I would have thought. Money talks! Why
:03:45. > :03:47.do you say that? You talked about having a pirate radio station to
:03:48. > :03:49.blast into Clacton so it is not covered by the election rules.
:03:50. > :03:56.You've been talking about financing a sort of right-wing Momentum
:03:57. > :04:00.movement. I just wonder, has politics now just become a
:04:01. > :04:03.Richmond's hobby? From my perspective the reason I'm
:04:04. > :04:06.interested in it is if you have looked at what has happened in the
:04:07. > :04:11.country, it's clear the Conservatives will have a massive
:04:12. > :04:17.majority. -- has politics become a rich man's hobby. Only putting up
:04:18. > :04:24.candidates not against Brexit MPs. Is Ukip over? I don't think so. The
:04:25. > :04:25.electoral maths is interesting because first-past-the-post
:04:26. > :04:36.effectively could help Ukip in this example. Ukip got one MP with 4
:04:37. > :04:40.million votes. What we are seeing is the total collapse of Labour. In
:04:41. > :04:43.that situation there are certain seats up north in Hartlepool and
:04:44. > :04:47.other seats like that, the total collapse of the Labour Party could
:04:48. > :04:53.help Ukip to win a few seats. Is Ukip over? It looks that way, yes.
:04:54. > :04:56.They haven't made much of a dent in Labour's vote in the north, they
:04:57. > :05:00.don't really have a defining issue anymore and all the polls we have
:05:01. > :05:05.seen published since the election was called show Ukip vote is going
:05:06. > :05:09.to the Conservatives. Is Ukip over? It always happens when the
:05:10. > :05:13.Conservative Party goes far to the right, really hard Brexit, there is
:05:14. > :05:20.no space for BMP, Ukip and all of that. Are you associating the BNP
:05:21. > :05:23.with Ukip? Or that, movements to the right of the Conservatives get eaten
:05:24. > :05:28.up one the Conservatives move as far right as Theresa May has done. I
:05:29. > :05:33.think what your enterprise shows is how it's really time to reform
:05:34. > :05:38.funding of political parties. It is disgraceful that very rich people
:05:39. > :05:42.can move in and bankroll the Brexit campaigned to the extent that they
:05:43. > :05:48.did. We need proper state funding of parties. The union is bankrolling
:05:49. > :05:56.Labour. I assume the reform would include trade unions? Indeed. Ukip
:05:57. > :05:59.has lost its talisman in Nigel Farage, it was a one-man party, I
:06:00. > :06:05.have to say, people like Tim. Having voted for Brexit its reason to be
:06:06. > :06:08.has gone. It will still take votes from Labour and the Conservatives
:06:09. > :06:12.but probably only from the don't knows. There are seats in certain
:06:13. > :06:18.places where if enough Tories back Ukip dated when. Hartlepool is an
:06:19. > :06:21.example. Were the Tories will never win. The demise of Ukip has been
:06:22. > :06:25.forecasted many times before but I don't see a Tory candidate winning
:06:26. > :06:30.in a place like Hartlepool. So we could see, and I think we will see,
:06:31. > :06:34.the total collapse of the Labour vote. We shall see. The leader of
:06:35. > :06:38.the party of which you say you are still a patron, Paul Nuttall, said
:06:39. > :06:46.he would ban the Burcea and the niqab in public, what is your view?
:06:47. > :06:51.-- the niqab and the Burcea? I'm not in agreement with that. If it is a
:06:52. > :06:55.security issue at airports or public transport it could be acceptable but
:06:56. > :06:58.I'm not in favour of curtailing people's writes. You have gone
:06:59. > :07:03.further than him, haven't you? You tweeted you wanted to ban Muslim
:07:04. > :07:06.immigration. In my view the problem we have had with the lack of
:07:07. > :07:10.integration in certain communities has come about through mass
:07:11. > :07:14.open-door immigration. If you are a must win you wouldn't be allowed in?
:07:15. > :07:19.What I said in the tweet was I think they should be a ban on
:07:20. > :07:25.immigration... You said Muslim immigration. That's what I believe.
:07:26. > :07:28.If you are a world famous doctor coming to help one of our big
:07:29. > :07:32.teaching hospitals in this country because you are a Muslim you could
:07:33. > :07:35.not get in? We have to start somewhere, there are huge problems
:07:36. > :07:40.in areas where 20% of the population don't speak the language, they
:07:41. > :07:46.haven't integrated. You should read the rest of the tweet, it is control
:07:47. > :07:50.of immigration from a 10-year ban on unskilled immigration. The first
:07:51. > :07:53.thing you said was to ban Muslim immigration, it is in black and
:07:54. > :07:57.white. I have said that, I do not dispute that. I was questioning
:07:58. > :08:01.that. There is my answer, you cannot tell somebody's will adjust freedoms
:08:02. > :08:07.but what you can do is stop adding to the problem. Doesn't that sound a
:08:08. > :08:11.bit like the BNP? It's as like BNP and like Trump. Its, we hate
:08:12. > :08:16.Muslims, fine, if that is what you are standing for, that is clear. The
:08:17. > :08:18.final word is we have had open-door mass immigration from the
:08:19. > :08:21.Conservative Party, we've had it from the Labour Party and its fine
:08:22. > :08:26.if you are in north London to say these things, if you live in Oldham
:08:27. > :08:29.and your community has been radically changed and you have a
:08:30. > :08:33.whole population not integrating in, not speaking the language, something
:08:34. > :08:37.has got to be done. We had better leave it there. Thank you for coming
:08:38. > :08:40.in. I am en route to Clacton. We will see how you get on there.
:08:41. > :08:42.Now, Lib Dem leader Tim Farron was on TV earlier today
:08:43. > :08:45.and he was asked again about an issue that he's been
:08:46. > :08:47.asked about repeatedly - his attitude to homosexuality.
:08:48. > :08:57.when they asked you whether gay sex was a sin.
:08:58. > :08:59.Come on, Robert, I've been asked this question loads
:09:00. > :09:03.few days and I have been clear, even in the House of Commons,
:09:04. > :09:13.It's possible I'm not the only person getting tired
:09:14. > :09:17.Probably, but then why don't you just close it down?
:09:18. > :09:29.Toby Young, why does he get into such a mess over this? I mean, he is
:09:30. > :09:33.leader of the Liberal Democrats. Its 2017. I guess the reason he keeps
:09:34. > :09:37.refusing to answer that question is because what the implication is that
:09:38. > :09:44.he does think that homosexual acts are sinful, and he cannot bring
:09:45. > :09:48.himself not to say that, or to say what Robert Peston and others want
:09:49. > :09:52.him to say because he is an evangelical Christian who converted
:09:53. > :09:55.at the age of 20, 21, and clearly he really struggles with this issue and
:09:56. > :09:59.I think it will be really difficult for the Lib Dems to promote, or even
:10:00. > :10:02.Lib Dem candidates like Vince Cable, to promote the idea of the
:10:03. > :10:06.Progressive Alliance even though Tim has ruled it out, if he is not
:10:07. > :10:15.prepared to say I don't think homosexual acts are sinful. What is
:10:16. > :10:18.your view? It is disastrous if that is what he really thinks but Preston
:10:19. > :10:20.did not push the hard. I'm not sure he understood the difference about
:10:21. > :10:23.the question between gay sex and being gay. I think he just thought
:10:24. > :10:27.he was going on saying I'm not anti-gay. He needs to command
:10:28. > :10:32.immediately and clarify it. If you are right and he does actually think
:10:33. > :10:35.it is a sin he is in real trouble. There is a slight parallel with what
:10:36. > :10:39.police said before about Jeremy Corbyn, how his unilateral nuclear
:10:40. > :10:44.policy would appeal to the hard core of the left. The problem for Tim
:10:45. > :10:49.Farron with what he is saying here, while he is an evangelical
:10:50. > :10:56.Christian, this will not appeal to traditional Liberal Democrats. An
:10:57. > :11:01.LGBT community member cannot possibly vote for an MP who believes
:11:02. > :11:04.that a sexual act between homosexuals is sinful. He has not
:11:05. > :11:08.made that clear. Of course, he wants to stop Brexit as well so he is
:11:09. > :11:11.neither liberal nor democratic. He will have seven weeks to make it
:11:12. > :11:16.clear because I am sure he will be asked again. We have the chairman of
:11:17. > :11:21.the Conservative Party on earlier, Polly. An important figure for the
:11:22. > :11:25.Tory campaign. What did you make of what he said? I don't think he will
:11:26. > :11:29.have him on very often, he didn't do brilliantly. I think they will bring
:11:30. > :11:34.back chemical Ali, Michael Fallon, he can say anything with a straight
:11:35. > :11:39.face, he can say black is white. Michael Fallon, chemical Ali? Why do
:11:40. > :11:45.you say that? He can absolutely say black is white. For instance if you
:11:46. > :11:51.look back at what he said, you challenged him about the energy
:11:52. > :11:56.policy, when Ed Miliband came out with it, he said any kind of freeze
:11:57. > :12:00.would stop investment, the lights will go out. You have him on, he
:12:01. > :12:06.will say the exact opposite. He is magic at that. But I don't think
:12:07. > :12:13.your guy today was up to the job. If Michael Fallon was chemical Ali, or
:12:14. > :12:19.we should say chemical Fally, Patrick was more like comical Ali.
:12:20. > :12:24.The whole Iraq war is rushing back at me. He is the warm up comedian,
:12:25. > :12:28.there is another six weeks to go, just getting things started. What
:12:29. > :12:32.did you think? I don't think he was too bad, it was difficult for him to
:12:33. > :12:36.say exactly what was in the 2050 manifesto is going to be replicated
:12:37. > :12:39.in the Conservatives' manifesto during this general election, he
:12:40. > :12:42.doesn't want to be seen rowing back on stuff but on the other hand I
:12:43. > :12:46.don't think he can conceal the fact they will be far fewer commitments
:12:47. > :12:50.in this Conservative manifesto than in the last one, as you and I know,
:12:51. > :12:59.it was full of rash promises last time because they thought they would
:13:00. > :13:01.have to trade a lot of them away in the negotiations with the Liberal
:13:02. > :13:03.Democrats to form a second coalition so they are saddled with policies
:13:04. > :13:05.they don't particularly want to be hemmed in by. The forthcoming
:13:06. > :13:08.Conservative manifesto will be much lighter and shorter with fewer
:13:09. > :13:12.commitments. Different? Some stuff jumped from the 2050 manifesto? I
:13:13. > :13:15.think so but we will see a commitment to run schools to
:13:16. > :13:18.overcome that hurdle in the next parliament and I don't think, in
:13:19. > :13:22.spite of what you think, Polly, that it will be a hard tack to the right.
:13:23. > :13:28.I think if anything the mood music of the Conservative manifesto will
:13:29. > :13:32.be a centrist inclusive one. The mood music will be because the
:13:33. > :13:35.specifics would be there. She is good at saying governing for
:13:36. > :13:39.everybody and the many and not the few but when you look at the hard
:13:40. > :13:42.facts of what her and Hammond's budget looks like, you look at her
:13:43. > :13:50.hard Brexit, it's a very different story. Or that, the music has
:13:51. > :13:57.stopped for this week! Thank you. I will be back next week at the normal
:13:58. > :14:01.time of 11am on Sunday morning. On BBC One The Daily Politics is back
:14:02. > :14:05.at midday tomorrow and we will be on every day next week on BBC Two.
:14:06. > :14:35.Remember, if it's Sunday, it is The Sunday Politics.
:14:36. > :14:38.There'll be a couple of hours of just fantastic music, really,
:14:39. > :14:40.all the Ella classics, as well as some very special guests,
:14:41. > :14:44.we have Mica Paris, Imelda May, Dame Cleo Laine
:14:45. > :14:49.'There's a side to Rory that the public doesn't see.
:14:50. > :14:54.'Rory has suspected for some time that he may have ADHD.