30/04/2017

:00:36. > :00:40.It's Sunday Morning, and this is the Sunday Politics.

:00:41. > :00:43.Theresa May says she has no plans to increase tax levels,

:00:44. > :00:46.but refuses to repeat David Cameron's 2015 manifesto

:00:47. > :00:53.promise ruling out hikes in VAT, national insurance and income tax.

:00:54. > :00:57.The leaders of the EU's 27 member states unanimously

:00:58. > :01:00.agree their negotiating strategy for the upcoming Brexit talks, but

:01:01. > :01:10.And in the last of our series of interviews ahead of Thursday's

:01:11. > :01:15.local elections, I'll be talking to the leader of Plaid Cymru Leanne

:01:16. > :01:17.In the South: You wait ages for an election,

:01:18. > :01:23.We'll be looking at what's at stake in the first one,

:01:24. > :01:27.the local council elections this Thursday.

:01:28. > :01:48.They hit an all-time low after coalition government,

:01:49. > :01:49.but are the Lib Dems poised to bounce back,

:01:50. > :01:54.And with me to analyse the week's politics,

:01:55. > :01:56.Isabel Oakeshott, Steve Richards, Tom Newton-Dunn.

:01:57. > :01:57.They'll be tweeting using the hashtag #bbcsp.

:01:58. > :02:00.So when Theresa May was interviewed just over an hour ago

:02:01. > :02:03.on The Andrew Marr Show, the Prime Minister was asked

:02:04. > :02:05.to confirm that she would repeat David Cameron's 2015 election

:02:06. > :02:07.promise not to raise VAT, national insurance and income tax

:02:08. > :02:12.We have absolutely no plans to increase the level of tax,

:02:13. > :02:15.but I'm also very clear that I don't want to make specific proposals

:02:16. > :02:18.on taxes unless I'm absolutely sure that I can deliver on those.

:02:19. > :02:20.But it is, would be my intention as a Conservative Government

:02:21. > :02:23.and a Conservative Prime Minister, to reduce the taxes

:02:24. > :02:32.The Tories like to have a clear tax message in elections, are they

:02:33. > :02:36.getting into a bit of a mess? That method wasn't clear, but does it

:02:37. > :02:41.mean, saying they have no plans to increase the level of tax? We are

:02:42. > :02:45.clear there will not be a rise in VAT, a lot of commentators will get

:02:46. > :02:50.overexcited about that, but there was no great expectations there

:02:51. > :02:55.would be a rise in VAT. Tempting as it is, because even one percentage

:02:56. > :02:59.point on VAT rate is 4.5 billion for the exchequer so it is tempting but

:03:00. > :03:07.there has been no speculation that would happen. We can see that she

:03:08. > :03:09.clearly wants to reiterate the language about hard-working families

:03:10. > :03:15.but I don't think we are that much the wiser. Even if she does not put

:03:16. > :03:19.up rates, according to projections the overall tax burden, as a

:03:20. > :03:25.percentage of GDP, is rising, will rise in the years ahead. That is why

:03:26. > :03:29.it was an odd phrase, I know she is doing it to be evasive but to say

:03:30. > :03:33.they have no plans to raise the general level of taxation, they do

:03:34. > :03:37.have. We also know they have specific plans because it was in the

:03:38. > :03:45.last budget, they had a tax rise which they had to revise, National

:03:46. > :03:52.Insurance rises, so very wisely in my view they are keeping options

:03:53. > :03:56.open, the 2015 tax-and-spend debate was a fantasy world, totally

:03:57. > :04:01.unrelated to the demands that would follow. They now have the

:04:02. > :04:05.flexibility, one of the arguments you had heard last time was Philip

:04:06. > :04:10.Hammond saying to her, we have to break away from the 2015 manifesto

:04:11. > :04:14.commitment and we can only do it this way, that is one of the better

:04:15. > :04:19.arguments. The Tories like to talk about tax cuts in elections, whether

:04:20. > :04:25.they do it is another matter, but they are not being allowed to talk

:04:26. > :04:30.about tax cuts, they are now on the defensive over whether they will

:04:31. > :04:32.raise taxes. That is not a healthy position for the campaign to be in.

:04:33. > :04:38.If you look at the numbers, quite frankly, if you will not do this at

:04:39. > :04:42.this election with eight 20 point lead over Labour, then when will you

:04:43. > :04:46.take these tough decisions? Reading between the lines of what Theresa

:04:47. > :04:49.May has said all over different broadcasters this morning, income

:04:50. > :04:53.tax will go down for low-income families, such as the threshold rise

:04:54. > :05:00.that microbes that was already factored in. She has had to commit

:05:01. > :05:04.to it again. VAT will be fat, national insurance contributions

:05:05. > :05:10.will go up. Do you think they will go up? I think so, she had plenty of

:05:11. > :05:16.opportunity to rule it out and she didn't. There was a terrible mess

:05:17. > :05:20.with the budget, it is a good tax argument but not a good electoral

:05:21. > :05:24.argument that you are eroding the base so heavily with people moving

:05:25. > :05:27.into self-employment that as you raise national insurance

:05:28. > :05:30.contributions for everybody but the self-employed, it is something the

:05:31. > :05:35.Treasury will have to look at. The other triple lock on pensions, we

:05:36. > :05:39.don't know if they will keep to that either? If they are sensible they

:05:40. > :05:43.will find a form of words to give them flexibility in that area as

:05:44. > :05:48.well. I would say there is no question over that, that has gone.

:05:49. > :05:51.As Mrs May would say, you will have to wait for the manifesto. That is

:05:52. > :05:56.what all the party leaders tell me! Labour have spent the weekend

:05:57. > :05:58.pushing their messages Speaking at a camapign rally

:05:59. > :06:01.in London yesterday, Jeremy Corbyn promised a Labour

:06:02. > :06:09.government would fix what he called People are fed up, fed up with not

:06:10. > :06:13.being able to get somewhere to live, fed up waiting for hospital

:06:14. > :06:18.appointments, fed up with 0-hours contracts, fed up with low pay, fed

:06:19. > :06:23.up with debt, fed up with not being able to get on in their lives

:06:24. > :06:26.because we have a system that is rigged against so many.

:06:27. > :06:28.I've been joined from Newcastle by Labour's elections

:06:29. > :06:29.and campaigns co-ordinator, Ian Lavery.

:06:30. > :06:40.Good morning. To deal with this rigged economy, as Mr Corbyn calls

:06:41. > :06:45.it, the Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell has a 20 point plan for

:06:46. > :06:48.workers out today. When you add up everything he plans to do to help

:06:49. > :06:53.workers, how much will it cost? The full costings, one thing I need to

:06:54. > :06:59.say at the very beginning, the costings of any policy which we have

:07:00. > :07:03.already ruled out and any policy we will be ruling out in the next few

:07:04. > :07:09.days and weeks will be fully costed in the manifesto and in addition to

:07:10. > :07:13.the fact that it will be fully costed, we will see it in the

:07:14. > :07:18.manifesto how indeed it has been funded, so we are very clear,

:07:19. > :07:22.anything we have seen already, and there are some exciting policy

:07:23. > :07:26.releases and there will be more in the future, anything we are going to

:07:27. > :07:29.do will be fully costed and in the manifesto. You announced a 20 point

:07:30. > :07:34.plan but cannot tell me what the costs will be this morning so at the

:07:35. > :07:39.moment it is a menu without prices? It is not a menu without prices, it

:07:40. > :07:44.is a fantastic opportunity. This 20 point plan is something which will

:07:45. > :07:48.transform the lives of millions of millions of people in the

:07:49. > :07:53.workplace... But what is the cost? It will be welcomed by many people

:07:54. > :07:57.across the UK. The fact the costings have not been released, you will

:07:58. > :08:02.have to be patient, it will be released very clearly, it will

:08:03. > :08:06.identify that in the manifesto. Let me come down to one of the points,

:08:07. > :08:12.the end of the public sector pay freeze. Can you give us any idea how

:08:13. > :08:15.much that will cost? The end of the public sector pay freeze, so

:08:16. > :08:22.important to the future of the Labour Party, it is an massive

:08:23. > :08:27.policy decision. Let me say at this stage, Theresa May, the Prime

:08:28. > :08:31.Minister, this morning, on The Andrew Marr Show, did not have the

:08:32. > :08:36.common decency, courtesy all respect to condone the fact that nurses, the

:08:37. > :08:42.heroes of the NHS, have had a reduction of nearly 14% in their

:08:43. > :08:46.wages since 2010 and are using food banks to feed themselves! Does that

:08:47. > :08:53.not say everything that is wrong with today's society? So can you

:08:54. > :08:57.tell me what it will cost, which is what my question was? What I will

:08:58. > :09:00.say is everything the Labour Party pledges, everything that we come out

:09:01. > :09:05.with, what we will roll out between now and the 8th of June, will be

:09:06. > :09:09.fully costed, people will be very much aware of how much the costings

:09:10. > :09:14.will be, where the funding will come from, when the manifesto is

:09:15. > :09:18.published. What about doubling paternity leave, nu minimum wage,

:09:19. > :09:30.four new bank holidays, any idea what it will

:09:31. > :09:33.cost? These are exciting new proposals and of course today cost

:09:34. > :09:35.money but we are the sixth richest economy in the world. It is about

:09:36. > :09:38.redistribution of the wealth we create. We are seeing growth in the

:09:39. > :09:41.economy, it is how we utilise the finances in the best way we possibly

:09:42. > :09:47.can for a fairer society for the many and not the few. You just can't

:09:48. > :09:52.tell me how much it will cost? That is why I will repeat again that you

:09:53. > :09:56.need to be very patient. Do you know the cost yourself? You are the head

:09:57. > :10:00.of the campaign, do you know the cost of these things yourself? I am

:10:01. > :10:04.very much aware of how much the costings are likely to be, they have

:10:05. > :10:10.been identified, they will be published in the manifesto. You

:10:11. > :10:15.really do understand I would not be releasing today, live on your show,

:10:16. > :10:19.any costings or predictions with regards the manifesto. Why not? You

:10:20. > :10:25.have released the policy, why not the cost? Because there is a fine

:10:26. > :10:28.detail and we will identify it to the general public in the manifesto.

:10:29. > :10:35.We not only explain how much it will cost but we will explain where the

:10:36. > :10:40.funding comes from. Be patient. Will some of the costs be met by

:10:41. > :10:45.increasing taxes? I would think at this point in time there is not any

:10:46. > :10:51.indication to increase basic taxes and again the taxes and spending of

:10:52. > :10:56.the Labour Government with the proposals of the 20 point plan, the

:10:57. > :11:02.issues we have got, housing, the NHS, crime, education will all be

:11:03. > :11:07.identified with the costings in the publication. Can you tell us this

:11:08. > :11:14.morning, we'll tax for most people rise or not to finance this? We in

:11:15. > :11:21.the Labour Party are looking to a fair tax system which will be

:11:22. > :11:26.clearly identified in the manifesto. Mr McDonnell also wants to ban all

:11:27. > :11:32.0-hours contracts. Would that include those who actually like

:11:33. > :11:35.those contracts? There are nearly 1 million, depending on which figured

:11:36. > :11:39.you'd use, there are nearly 1 million people on zero-hours

:11:40. > :11:44.contract and the vast proportion of those want to be able to live a

:11:45. > :11:50.decent life, a secure life, they want to understand whether they will

:11:51. > :11:54.be at work the next day, they're included hours... I understand a lot

:11:55. > :11:58.of people don't like zero-hours contract and your proposal will

:11:59. > :12:04.address that, but there are those, I saw one survey where 65% of people

:12:05. > :12:07.on zero-hours contract like the flexibility it gives them. Will you

:12:08. > :12:12.force them off zero-hours contract or if they like them will they

:12:13. > :12:16.continue with them? We will discuss it with employee is to make sure

:12:17. > :12:20.individuals in the workplace have the right to negotiate hours in that

:12:21. > :12:28.workplace. Guaranteed hours is very, very important. Zero-hour contracts

:12:29. > :12:32.are an instrument in which employers abuse and exploit mainly young

:12:33. > :12:38.people, mainly female people in the workplace. We would be banning

:12:39. > :12:42.zero-hour contract. But there are those, students for example, who

:12:43. > :12:47.like them, would they be forced off zero-hour contracts in your

:12:48. > :12:51.proposal? Our proposal would be banning zero-hour contract and

:12:52. > :12:56.introducing contracts which have set hours in the workplace. You also say

:12:57. > :13:00.no company will be able to bid for a public contract unless the boss

:13:01. > :13:05.earns no more than 20 times the lowest paid, or the average wage,

:13:06. > :13:09.I'm not quite sure which. What would happen if British Aerospace bids to

:13:10. > :13:14.build more joint strike Fighters and the boss is paid more than 20 times?

:13:15. > :13:22.I understand the point you raise but we have an obscene situation in this

:13:23. > :13:26.country, Andrew, in which the bosses at the very top make an absolute

:13:27. > :13:33.fortune... But what would happen then? Who would build joint strike

:13:34. > :13:37.Fighters... The difference in wages between the top earners in the

:13:38. > :13:42.country and the people in the factories, in the workshops,

:13:43. > :13:47.producing the goods, is vast. I understand that is the reason you

:13:48. > :13:52.want a ratio. What I am saying is, what happens if the ratio is

:13:53. > :13:57.greater? Who gets the contract if not British Aerospace? Who else

:13:58. > :14:04.builds the planes? We are going to introduce a wage rate CEO of one to

:14:05. > :14:07.20. -- wage ratio. We want to close the gap between the people at the

:14:08. > :14:11.very top and people who produce the goods. Let me try one more Time, who

:14:12. > :14:18.would build the joint strike fighter? We would look at the issue

:14:19. > :14:22.as it came along but the policy is clear... Can you name a single

:14:23. > :14:30.defence contractor weather boss' salary is less than 20 times average

:14:31. > :14:37.earnings? We are not reducing, we have rolled that out as part of this

:14:38. > :14:43.fantastic plan to transform society to get rid of discrimination, to try

:14:44. > :14:48.and bring together our communities. We will introduce a pay ratio of one

:14:49. > :14:50.to 20. Fair enough, thank you very much.

:14:51. > :14:53.It's a month after the triggering of Article 50, and EU leaders -

:14:54. > :14:55.with the exception of Britain - met in Brussels this weekend

:14:56. > :14:58.to agree their opening negotiating stance, to get the divorce

:14:59. > :15:14.It is inside this psychedelic chamber where Britain's 'Grexit'

:15:15. > :15:19.future will be decided over the next two years, but there is a vast gulf

:15:20. > :15:29.in rhetoric coming from the UK and the EU. With parallel narratives

:15:30. > :15:32.emerging for both sides. There is broad agreement that an orderly

:15:33. > :15:37.withdrawal is in the interests of both sides. But Theresa May's

:15:38. > :15:40.position is that the terms of our future trade deal should be

:15:41. > :15:45.negotiated alongside the terms of our divorce. Meanwhile the EU says

:15:46. > :15:51.the terms of the UK's exit must be decided before any discussion on a

:15:52. > :15:55.future trade deal can begin. But don't forget that divorce

:15:56. > :16:00.settlement. Don't remind me. In Brussels, many think written should

:16:01. > :16:03.pay even more, while in the UK ministers said the divorce bill

:16:04. > :16:09.should be capped at 3 billion. After you. Thank you.

:16:10. > :16:19.For are you looking forward to it? Isn't that divorce bill a bit high?

:16:20. > :16:24.Isn't this about punishing Britain? We are very united, you all seem so

:16:25. > :16:32.surprised but it's a fact. How soon can we get a deal? We have to wait

:16:33. > :16:37.for the elections. It was the decision of Mrs May. It took over an

:16:38. > :16:40.hour for the leaders to make their entrances but once inside it's just

:16:41. > :16:46.a few minutes to agree the negotiating guidelines. They set out

:16:47. > :16:50.three main areas. The first phase of talks on the divorce settlement will

:16:51. > :16:53.deal with the existing financial commitments to the EU, the Northern

:16:54. > :16:58.Ireland border and the rights of EU citizens in the UK. They said a UK

:16:59. > :17:03.trade agreement can be discussed when the first phase of talks

:17:04. > :17:07.reaches significant progress. And that there must be unity in the

:17:08. > :17:13.negotiations, that individual EU members won't negotiate separately

:17:14. > :17:18.with the UK. They are quite good here at negotiating because they are

:17:19. > :17:21.used to it. They set a maximum and then they have to recede a little

:17:22. > :17:28.bit depending on what the other side is prepared to offer. I think there

:17:29. > :17:31.is room for manoeuvre in some issues, but I don't think some of

:17:32. > :17:37.the baseline things will change that much. For example I don't think the

:17:38. > :17:41.European Union will concede on the rights of citizens who are already

:17:42. > :17:48.in the UK. It will be very difficult for them to accept that they will

:17:49. > :17:51.not be any exit bill, and the question of Northern Ireland is very

:17:52. > :17:55.important as well, the hard order question. The baseline things are

:17:56. > :17:59.not going to move that much, then you have room for manoeuvring

:18:00. > :18:03.between. On security, defence and the fight against terrorism, the

:18:04. > :18:08.guidelines said the EU stands ready to work together. And after lunch,

:18:09. > :18:13.friendly signs from some EU leaders as they gave individual press

:18:14. > :18:16.conferences. Paul and said the talks should open doors to new

:18:17. > :18:23.opportunities and even German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who had

:18:24. > :18:26.earlier said some in Britain were deluded about Brexit, softened her

:18:27. > :18:30.tone saying there was no conspiracy against the UK. Unity was the

:18:31. > :18:35.buzzword at this summit and for once everybody seemed to be sticking to

:18:36. > :18:39.the script. That unity is not only amongst the 27 states, it's also

:18:40. > :18:45.among the institutions so many of the divisions we have seen in the

:18:46. > :18:48.past at European level do not exist. That is very important and it's not

:18:49. > :18:53.be unity that is directed somehow against the UK because I think we

:18:54. > :19:06.all want this to be an orderly process and part of that is that the

:19:07. > :19:09.EU side is unified. So although there are no surprises here, what

:19:10. > :19:13.took place in this room was a significant step towards the real

:19:14. > :19:18.Brexit negotiations which will begin soon after the general election in

:19:19. > :19:22.June, said to be the most complex the UK has faced in our lifetimes.

:19:23. > :19:28.Isabel, Steve and Tom are still with me.

:19:29. > :19:35.Isabel, doesn't the British media have to be a bit careful here? We

:19:36. > :19:40.would never take at face value anything a British politician tells

:19:41. > :19:44.us. We would question it, put it in context and wonder if they are

:19:45. > :19:48.bluffing, but we seem to take at face value anything a European

:19:49. > :19:52.politician says about these negotiations. You only have to look

:19:53. > :19:57.at the front page of the Sunday Times today to see that. They quoted

:19:58. > :20:02.at length Juncker, who didn't like the food at the reception and this

:20:03. > :20:06.and that, and I think the mood is very optimistic. The key thing is

:20:07. > :20:11.the EU trade Commissioner has said we will get a free trade deal and a

:20:12. > :20:14.lot of people seem to be wilfully ignoring that incredibly big

:20:15. > :20:21.concession. That is what will happen in their view. Everything that is

:20:22. > :20:26.said at the moment needs a slight rerun over. They are all in

:20:27. > :20:29.negotiating positions, plus we seem to be completely unaware that they

:20:30. > :20:35.all have their own domestic constituencies as well. Angela

:20:36. > :20:38.Merkel has an important election coming up in September,

:20:39. > :20:42.Euroscepticism is quite different from Britain of course, but there's

:20:43. > :20:46.a different kind of euro scepticism in Germany, she has got to deal with

:20:47. > :20:50.that. Of course she has, which is why you are right, nothing should be

:20:51. > :20:56.taken too seriously out of the mouths of British politicians or

:20:57. > :21:00.European politicians until October this year. We have got to wait for

:21:01. > :21:05.the French elections, then German elections, and if you look through

:21:06. > :21:10.this you can see a way forward. There's no trade talks until pay up,

:21:11. > :21:14.but what was actually written was no trade talks until we make

:21:15. > :21:18.significant progress on the money. You can define significant progress

:21:19. > :21:24.in a lot of ways but come December, fireworks over the summer, we all

:21:25. > :21:27.get very excited about it, in these chairs I'm sure, come December

:21:28. > :21:32.things will look a lot smoother. The German elections are at the end of

:21:33. > :21:35.September but I've seen reports in German press, depending how it goes

:21:36. > :21:42.it could take until Christmas before a new coalition government is put

:21:43. > :21:45.together. The Brussels long-standing negotiating tactic of nothing is

:21:46. > :21:50.agreed until everything is agreed, then I guess the British could say

:21:51. > :21:54.we agree a certain sum of money if that's what it takes but that

:21:55. > :22:00.depends on them, what good trade deal we get. If we don't get that,

:22:01. > :22:05.the sum of money is off the table. In that sense, the two are going

:22:06. > :22:09.parallel. However, I wouldn't entirely dismiss what people are

:22:10. > :22:15.saying in their pre-election periods to their own electorates because

:22:16. > :22:19.they have to some extent to deliver subsequently. Of course Angela

:22:20. > :22:23.Merkel is campaigning and electioneering, who wouldn't, she

:22:24. > :22:27.has a tough election to fight, but she is measured and thoughtful and

:22:28. > :22:31.when she says things like some of the British are delusional, that is

:22:32. > :22:38.unusually strong language for her. What was she referring to? I don't

:22:39. > :22:42.know, it wasn't specific. Have the cake and eat it perhaps the

:22:43. > :22:46.sequencing the British don't want. When they thought the British

:22:47. > :22:49.government was going to effectively demand membership of the single

:22:50. > :22:57.market, that's not going to happen now. Unless you sign up to the four

:22:58. > :23:02.pillars, that's the cake and eat it proposition, which they are right in

:23:03. > :23:07.saying Theresa May has made. But everybody has access, even with no

:23:08. > :23:16.deal you have access. The other side of it is I think there will be a

:23:17. > :23:22.united position from them. And so, as somebody pointed out in that

:23:23. > :23:30.report, they are experienced, tough negotiators, so I don't think it

:23:31. > :23:36.will be quite as easy as some think. I spoke to one of those who drew up

:23:37. > :23:39.Article 50 and they said to me they deliberately put this two year

:23:40. > :23:46.timetable in to make it impossible for anybody to think about leaving.

:23:47. > :23:49.This is really tight, this negotiation. Easy, it isn't.

:23:50. > :23:51.This coming Thursday, voters up and down the country

:23:52. > :23:54.will be going to the polls in this year's local elections.

:23:55. > :23:56.Over the past few weeks I've interviewed representatives

:23:57. > :23:58.of the Conservative Party, Labour, the Liberal Democrats,

:23:59. > :24:01.Today it's the turn of Plaid Cymru and the SNP.

:24:02. > :24:04.A little earlier I spoke Alex Salmond, who until 2014

:24:05. > :24:08.I started by asking him why Scots should vote SNP in local elections

:24:09. > :24:11.when the Scottish Government had just cut central Government funding

:24:12. > :24:27.It's actually a funding increase going into Scottish councils this

:24:28. > :24:30.year, and if you look at the funding position for example between

:24:31. > :24:34.Scottish councils and those in England, which are obviously

:24:35. > :24:37.directly related through the Barnett formula, the funding in Scotland has

:24:38. > :24:48.been incomparably better than that in England so there's a whole range

:24:49. > :24:51.of the -- of reasons... What's happening south of the border

:24:52. > :24:55.indicates the protection the Scottish Parliament has been able to

:24:56. > :25:00.put in that helps vital services in Scotland. But there hasn't been a

:25:01. > :25:04.funding increase, the block grant from Westminster to Edinburgh was

:25:05. > :25:11.increased by 1.5% in real terms but the grant to councils was cut by

:25:12. > :25:16.2.6%. It was going to be a cut of 330 million, the Greens got you to

:25:17. > :25:26.reduce it to 170 million but it is still a cut of 2.6%. Your own

:25:27. > :25:31.Aberdeenshire Council has had a cut to 391 million. You have cut the

:25:32. > :25:34.money to councils. Yes, but councils have available to them more

:25:35. > :25:40.resources this year, and as you say the budget increased that further

:25:41. > :25:42.which is why we put forward an excellent local government budget in

:25:43. > :25:49.Aberdeenshire and resisted a Tory attempts to knock ?3 million off...

:25:50. > :25:53.You asked me about Aberdeenshire, and Aberdeenshire has put forward a

:25:54. > :25:58.budget for investment expansion and resisted a Tory attempts to knock ?3

:25:59. > :26:02.million off the education budget, and I'm very grateful you have given

:26:03. > :26:08.me the opportunity to make that point. The Government in Edinburgh

:26:09. > :26:14.has cut the money to Aberdeenshire by ?11 million. It is a cut. But

:26:15. > :26:17.there is an investment budget in Aberdeenshire that has been made

:26:18. > :26:23.available by the ability to increase the council tax by 2.5% after a

:26:24. > :26:27.nine-year freeze in Scotland, and that has brought more resources into

:26:28. > :26:31.local government and that's why the butchered in Aberdeenshire has been

:26:32. > :26:35.an investment budget including protection of the education budget

:26:36. > :26:40.in the face of a Tory and liberal attempt to cut bit. You have to

:26:41. > :26:43.compare what is happening in Scotland and England, and there's no

:26:44. > :26:49.doubt Scottish local authorities have been much better funded than

:26:50. > :26:51.those in England over the last few years and that's been the ability of

:26:52. > :26:57.the Scottish Government to protect the services at local level. A good

:26:58. > :27:03.reason for voting SNP. If they have been so well funded, why after a

:27:04. > :27:11.decade of SNP rule do one in five Scottish pupils leave primary school

:27:12. > :27:15.functionally illiterate? You have got to take these things... Nicola

:27:16. > :27:20.Sturgeon has made it a top priority to address these challenges but

:27:21. > :27:23.let's take another statistic. 93% of Scottish kids are now emerging from

:27:24. > :27:31.school to positive destinations, that means to further education,

:27:32. > :27:37.apprenticeships or work. Why are one in five functionally illiterate? You

:27:38. > :27:41.argue one statistic, I'm arguing Scottish education is putting in

:27:42. > :27:46.some substantially good performances like the 93% going on to positive

:27:47. > :27:51.destinations. You can't have a failing education system if you have

:27:52. > :27:55.got that 93%, and incidentally a record low youth unemployment in

:27:56. > :28:00.Scotland without the second lowest unemployment rate in Europe. These

:28:01. > :28:05.pupils are being prepared by the Scottish education system. Let's

:28:06. > :28:09.take the figures in the round on education. It's so important. Under

:28:10. > :28:14.your watch, under your government, the Scottish schools in the most

:28:15. > :28:25.important global comparison have fallen from tenth to 19th in

:28:26. > :28:32.science, and 11 to 24th in maths, that is a record of decline and

:28:33. > :28:37.failure. That is by the OECD and first questions about that, but the

:28:38. > :28:42.OECD has also described Scotland is one of the best educated societies

:28:43. > :28:47.in the world. That was from the school system in previous years gone

:28:48. > :28:53.by. For those who are currently in Scottish schools, you have fallen

:28:54. > :28:56.from 11th to 24th in mathematics. The OECD was commenting on

:28:57. > :29:00.introduction of the new curriculum for excellence in which they have

:29:01. > :29:05.given a resounding thumbs up to it, and that's the same source as the

:29:06. > :29:09.rankings which you are comparing. Nicola Sturgeon has said there are

:29:10. > :29:13.challenges on Scottish education, particularly the access through the

:29:14. > :29:17.education system and the attainment gap but don't tell me it's failing

:29:18. > :29:20.when 55% of our pupils have gone on to higher education. That's one of

:29:21. > :29:28.the most impressive figures in the world. Why have you cut 4000

:29:29. > :29:31.teachers? The pupil numbers in Scotland have been falling over

:29:32. > :29:35.recent years as well and now of course we are increasing the number

:29:36. > :29:39.of people going through teachers training so we can make sure that

:29:40. > :29:44.number increases, but listen, the Scottish Government and Scottish

:29:45. > :29:48.Parliament, as you very well know, are subject to real terms spending

:29:49. > :29:52.cuts over the last few years and all public services have been under

:29:53. > :29:55.pressure. The main reason in terms of teacher numbers has been an

:29:56. > :30:00.attempt on the Scottish Government to protect the teacher pupil ratio,

:30:01. > :30:08.and that will now be enhanced by a further taker -- intake. You

:30:09. > :30:14.promised you would reduce primary class sizes to 18 and instead they

:30:15. > :30:20.are now 23.5 and rising. You broke that promise. You didn't mention

:30:21. > :30:24.where we started from. We have kept the teacher pupil ratio very solid

:30:25. > :30:29.in Scotland and that's been against a range of public expenditure cuts

:30:30. > :30:30.but the new intake of teachers into the new teacher training in Scotland

:30:31. > :30:41.I think will enhance the system. You have spent in the pasty in

:30:42. > :30:46.Hollywood 43 hours on Government time debating independence. How many

:30:47. > :30:51.hours have you debated education on Government time? I don't have that

:30:52. > :30:55.they get a hand... The answer is zero, you have spent zero-hours

:30:56. > :31:01.debating education on Government time. Isn't it time the SNP got back

:31:02. > :31:05.to concentrating on the day job? Andrew, as you very well know Nicola

:31:06. > :31:09.Sturgeon has identified a key priority, closing the attainment gap

:31:10. > :31:14.in Scottish education. That is exactly what she has done. Let me

:31:15. > :31:19.answer the question, it is difficult to be in a remote location, if you

:31:20. > :31:26.talk before I answer the question then the view was will not be able

:31:27. > :31:30.to listen. I let you answer that without saying a word. Is this

:31:31. > :31:35.general election about independence, as you say it is, or not about

:31:36. > :31:41.independence, as Mrs Sturgeon says it is? No, I have said exactly the

:31:42. > :31:44.same as Nicola Sturgeon on that. The issue what independence will be

:31:45. > :31:50.decided in a national referendum of the Scottish people. The mandate for

:31:51. > :31:54.that referendum was gained in last year's Scottish elections. What this

:31:55. > :31:57.election is about is backing the right of the Scottish parliament to

:31:58. > :31:59.exercise that mandate and also providing real opposition to this

:32:00. > :32:04.Tory Government and allowing the Scottish Parliament to reverse

:32:05. > :32:09.austerity and some of the public expenditure cutbacks you have been

:32:10. > :32:10.talking about, that is what this is about, backing our Scottish

:32:11. > :32:12.Parliament. Alex Salmond, speaking

:32:13. > :32:13.to me earlier. I'm now joined by the leader

:32:14. > :32:20.of Plaid Cymru, Leanne Wood. You accuse the Government of wanting

:32:21. > :32:25.an extreme Brexit, those are your words. What is the difference

:32:26. > :32:28.between hard Brexit and extreme Brexit? My concern is the way in

:32:29. > :32:33.which we leave the European Union could be very damaging to Wales if,

:32:34. > :32:37.for example, there are tariffs introduced then that would have a

:32:38. > :32:43.real impact in terms of Welsh jobs, and I want to make sure that we have

:32:44. > :32:47.a Brexit that doesn't cause the damage to Wales that could be

:32:48. > :32:53.caused. But what is the difference between extreme and hard? Anything

:32:54. > :32:56.that puts Welsh jobs at risk is either extreme or hard and

:32:57. > :33:00.unacceptable to Plaid Cymru, and we will do what we can to protect those

:33:01. > :33:05.jobs. You want Wales to remain a member of the single market even if

:33:06. > :33:09.the UK isn't, which would mean Wales having to accept the free movement

:33:10. > :33:21.of people, still being under the jurisdiction of the European Court,

:33:22. > :33:23.and you also want to stay in the customs union which means you could

:33:24. > :33:26.not do your own free trade deals. What is the difference between that

:33:27. > :33:28.and being a member of the European Union? We would be like Norway,

:33:29. > :33:31.outside the European Union and inside the single market. The key

:33:32. > :33:35.question is the issue of jobs and the ability to continue to trade.

:33:36. > :33:39.Wales exports, we are the biggest exporter in the whole of the UK, so

:33:40. > :33:48.there are many jobs reliant upon those goods being able to be sold to

:33:49. > :33:53.the single market. Is it central to the UK? Out of the four countries

:33:54. > :34:01.that make up the UK... Proportionally, yes. If you remain

:34:02. > :34:05.in the single market, it is hard to see how Wales could stay in the

:34:06. > :34:10.single market if the UK -- when the rest of the UK was not, you cite

:34:11. > :34:15.Norway, that has free movement, it has to be said, it effectively have

:34:16. > :34:19.to accept the jurisdiction of the European Court, it is not in the

:34:20. > :34:27.customs union so it can do some of its own free trade deals, but the

:34:28. > :34:31.Welsh people voted to leave. We have to accept the principle of free

:34:32. > :34:35.movement if there is not going to be a hard border between the north and

:34:36. > :34:39.south of Ireland. There is going to be free movement within Ireland and

:34:40. > :34:44.therefore freedom of movement, as we said in the referendum campaign,

:34:45. > :34:50.would be very, very difficult to rule out. You lost that campaign, as

:34:51. > :34:56.you know, Wales voted to leave, 17 Council areas voted to leave, only

:34:57. > :35:01.five voted to remain. Doesn't it explain why your party is going

:35:02. > :35:07.nowhere? A majority in Wales voted to leave but you effectively want to

:35:08. > :35:11.support that and de facto remain in the EU? I don't accept that, we

:35:12. > :35:17.accepted the result but Plaid Cymru now is about defending Wales. There

:35:18. > :35:20.are so many risks facing our people from the jobs perspective, the

:35:21. > :35:24.privatisation perspective, the cuts perspective, and from the fact that

:35:25. > :35:29.the Tories would like to grab power was back from our National Assembly,

:35:30. > :35:33.so the key point... If you look at the Wales bill that went through

:35:34. > :35:37.recently, the list of reserved powers there suggests there are some

:35:38. > :35:44.powers currently within the Welsh Assembly jurisdiction that would be

:35:45. > :35:48.dragged back. Which power was will Westminster take back? They could

:35:49. > :35:56.take powers back over the NHS, for example. There is no indication they

:35:57. > :36:05.want to do that. The Tories have attacked the Welsh NHS. That is my

:36:06. > :36:08.point! Quite viciously. If they increase their mandate, I wouldn't

:36:09. > :36:12.put it past them to try to take power was back over the NHS and then

:36:13. > :36:17.of course we risk our NHS being privatised though this election is

:36:18. > :36:20.all about defending Wales, protecting Welsh people from further

:36:21. > :36:25.privatisation and cuts and a power grab from the Tories. Why is there

:36:26. > :36:29.never a breakthrough for your party, Plaid Cymru? Labour dominated in

:36:30. > :36:34.Wales for years, the Tories do quite well, Ukip had a surge for a while,

:36:35. > :36:38.it looks like the Tories will have another surge, never you, always the

:36:39. > :36:42.bridesmaid, never the bride. Wait until Thursday and I think you will

:36:43. > :36:46.see that in many parts of Wales we will increase our representation at

:36:47. > :36:52.a local council level. In the Rhondda, where I am assembly member,

:36:53. > :37:00.we are looking to increase our representation... You are only 13%

:37:01. > :37:04.in the polls will stop which is half of even the Tories in Wales! If you

:37:05. > :37:11.don't breakthrough in the selection, if the real problem is going

:37:12. > :37:17.nowhere, do you think you will pack it in? Robert Green not, I have a

:37:18. > :37:21.job to do, a vision of Wales which is about building up our nation and

:37:22. > :37:25.standing on our own two feet and my job is not done yet. Thank you for

:37:26. > :37:29.being with us as part of your job, we will see how it goes on Thursday.

:37:30. > :37:31.It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics.

:37:32. > :37:33.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now

:37:34. > :37:47.On today's show We've heard a lot, perhaps too much, about how we can

:37:48. > :37:53.be stronger or more stable, but can you use town

:37:54. > :37:58.planning to help residents get leaner and fitter?

:37:59. > :38:00.Three communities in the region have been designated Fit Towns,

:38:01. > :38:07.But first let's look at this Thursday's local elections,

:38:08. > :38:10.and meet the four politicians with us this morning.

:38:11. > :38:14.Ray Finch is one of UKIP's MEPs for the South East of England,

:38:15. > :38:16.Glenis Ansell is leader of the Liberal Democrats

:38:17. > :38:20.on Wiltshire Council, Ed Turner is the Labour Deputy Leader

:38:21. > :38:23.on Oxford City Council, and Caroline Dinenage

:38:24. > :38:28.Before we let our guests loose on one another,

:38:29. > :38:32.let's get a bit of an idea of what's at stake when we vote on Thursday.

:38:33. > :38:36.These elections were last held in 2013, when the political

:38:37. > :38:41.landscape, it's fair to say, was a bit different.

:38:42. > :38:44.It's the county councils that are up, along with the Isle

:38:45. > :38:46.of Wight, so there are no elections in any of the unitary

:38:47. > :38:48.authorities in Berkshire, or Portsmouth and Southampton,

:38:49. > :38:56.which makes a total of 524 council seats up for grabs in the South.

:38:57. > :38:58.We sent our political reporters out to take the temperature

:38:59. > :39:14.All eight MPs are Conservative, and the Tories have around three

:39:15. > :39:16.quarters of the seats on the County Council.

:39:17. > :39:18.But with two new unitary authorities looming,

:39:19. > :39:20.this could be the last ever County Council election

:39:21. > :39:26.The plans to merge nine Dorset councils have proven

:39:27. > :39:28.highly controversial but the General Election in June

:39:29. > :39:30.means the final decision is going to be put on hold

:39:31. > :39:36.so it is very much a period of great uncertainty.

:39:37. > :39:39.One thing is for certain, though, if the new structure for councils

:39:40. > :39:42.in Dorset is approved by the government it would kick-in

:39:43. > :39:46.in 2019 with new elections required meaning people here would have

:39:47. > :39:49.to return to the polling booths all over again.

:39:50. > :40:01.For some that would be for the sixth time in four years.

:40:02. > :40:06.You might come to the Isle of Wight for some peace and quiet,

:40:07. > :40:11.Just a few months before these hotly-contested County Council

:40:12. > :40:13.elections the Conservatives took control of the council

:40:14. > :40:23.Over these choppy waters on Hampshire County Council things

:40:24. > :40:26.might be a little bit calmer, where there is a large Tory majority

:40:27. > :40:34.Ukip won 10 council seats four years ago.

:40:35. > :40:38.It's now seven, and they go into these elections with half

:40:39. > :40:39.the number of candidates as they had four years ago.

:40:40. > :40:43.Turbulent times, but will voters be all at sea on May 4th.

:40:44. > :40:47.The balance of power is on a knife edge in Oxfordshire.

:40:48. > :40:49.The Conservatives have been in control for the past four years

:40:50. > :40:52.but they haven't had an overall majority.

:40:53. > :40:54.They had to form an alliance with two Independents.

:40:55. > :41:02.Here in Abingdon it is a key battle ground, with some wards Conservative

:41:03. > :41:13.Up the road in Oxford Labour have a strong base of support

:41:14. > :41:19.but two areas opted for the Green party last time around so it remains

:41:20. > :41:21.to be seen if the Conservatives can cling on to power,

:41:22. > :41:25.or if one of the opposition parties will be taking over at County Hall.

:41:26. > :41:27.Like most of the South, West Sussex is a staunch Tory area.

:41:28. > :41:30.The Conservative Party have had overall control

:41:31. > :41:34.of the council since 1997, with 46 out of the now 70 seats,

:41:35. > :41:37.it is a comfortable majority but with all of those seats up

:41:38. > :41:38.for election and some hotly contested local issues,

:41:39. > :41:40.whether that stays comfortable - wait and see.

:41:41. > :41:43.Like much of the South this will be Ukip's first real test

:41:44. > :41:47.They go into this election with ten seats and are the main opposition

:41:48. > :41:54.Will they make any gains or will Ukip lose those seats?

:41:55. > :42:03.Here in Surrey all 81 seats up for election at a time

:42:04. > :42:07.when the County Council has been in the headlines over funding

:42:08. > :42:10.For many years this has been a Conservative heartland

:42:11. > :42:12.and the party is very much in control at County Hall,

:42:13. > :42:15.with 57 councillors, one of the largest Conservative

:42:16. > :42:20.The main opposition groups and parties are the Residents'

:42:21. > :42:22.Association and Independent councillors, who have nine

:42:23. > :42:23.seats, and the Liberal Democrats, who have eight.

:42:24. > :42:27.All of the parties will be fighting hard to keep what they have,

:42:28. > :42:55.So much doesn't seem to change in our county councils but compared to

:42:56. > :42:58.the last time we voted there has been a lot of change. Jeremy Corbyn

:42:59. > :43:05.is in charge in the Labour Party and how do you think that will play out?

:43:06. > :43:08.A lot has been happening in Oxfordshire, the chief executive was

:43:09. > :43:16.sacked and given a big payoff and then he wasn't up to the job are

:43:17. > :43:20.many as employed someone else am people are being wasted... Will will

:43:21. > :43:25.we get gossip from all of the councils? There is of splitting the

:43:26. > :43:31.whole thing and getting different councils. Another trait of this

:43:32. > :43:34.individual is battling all of his Conservative colleagues are moving

:43:35. > :43:37.us try to take over everything. The County Council record is woeful.

:43:38. > :43:40.Terrible services for children, vulnerable children badly let down

:43:41. > :43:44.and that awful record in particular of keeping people in hospital rather

:43:45. > :43:47.than releasing them into the care setting that they need. I think

:43:48. > :43:52.local issues will be at the forefront of people's minds. In

:43:53. > :43:56.Oxfordshire certainly there was criticism, even from the

:43:57. > :43:59.Conservative Prime Minister, David Cameron, over the period of time,

:44:00. > :44:02.saying you should be being more efficient but they were saying they

:44:03. > :44:06.are not getting the money back from central government. Is it more to do

:44:07. > :44:09.with central government staffing of local authorities and what they

:44:10. > :44:12.need? There is truth in both of those things. When the County

:44:13. > :44:16.Council is closing children's centres even the Prime Minister 's

:44:17. > :44:18.mother felt moved to write in and rightly so. It was a disgraceful set

:44:19. > :44:32.of decisions and equally we know that

:44:33. > :44:34.councils up and down the country are being hammered and it is leaving

:44:35. > :44:36.people, particularly the most vulnerable, particularly the

:44:37. > :44:38.homeless, those who rely on social care and children really suffering

:44:39. > :44:40.because of the cutbacks as surfaces are not being resourced and

:44:41. > :44:42.mismanaged by the Conservatives. Local authorities have been hit by

:44:43. > :44:46.the austerity agenda and in Surrey they said they needed 15% more

:44:47. > :44:51.before they were persuaded to call off the increase. Like all

:44:52. > :44:53.businesses up and down the country all local authorities to tighten

:44:54. > :44:56.their belts and run a tighter ship. We have seen that the vast majority

:44:57. > :45:00.of the councils who have managed to do it are those who happen to be

:45:01. > :45:03.Conservative councils and they can do it in the same way that

:45:04. > :45:06.businesses do it by making sure that they keep their costs low and

:45:07. > :45:11.looking at their overheads and making sure they are one in a much

:45:12. > :45:14.more businesslike way. Wider places like Dorset and Oxfordshire have to

:45:15. > :45:19.be thinking about merging councils together like this just to save

:45:20. > :45:24.money? Make sense. You want to cut down overheads and your management

:45:25. > :45:29.costs and the big wage bills at the top of the organisation so you can

:45:30. > :45:33.protect the front line services. I saw it today, I live in the

:45:34. > :45:35.Conservative run Hampshire council and I drove into Labour run

:45:36. > :45:39.Southampton Council for your programme and nearly drove into a

:45:40. > :45:47.pothole that was nearly disappearing inside because it was so enormous.

:45:48. > :45:50.There are potholes everywhere! It is tangible, it is obvious to voters

:45:51. > :45:53.where councils are good on running a leadership and cutting down on waste

:45:54. > :45:58.and cutting down on front line services and other areas where they

:45:59. > :46:03.are not. So in Portsmouth, conservative run, the roads are

:46:04. > :46:07.smooth? They're always golden in Portsmouth, you know that. Potholes

:46:08. > :46:09.are an important test, in Wiltshire in particular. Absolutely, and they

:46:10. > :46:25.are the centre of the campaign in regard to people's

:46:26. > :46:27.perception about how the council is operating. The council needs to be

:46:28. > :46:30.efficient at what she is an advantage of the future, isn't it?

:46:31. > :46:32.You have one council running all the services. Watcher is a unitary

:46:33. > :46:35.authority so it has already cut a tear of organisation out and we have

:46:36. > :46:38.had a promise from the Conservative administration that for five years

:46:39. > :46:41.they would not raise council tax so there was no council tax paid for

:46:42. > :46:45.five years which on the face that looks like a wonderful idea but in

:46:46. > :46:49.the process of doing it we have lost our youth service, our music

:46:50. > :46:53.service, we have had all sorts of cuts to the voluntary sector, and

:46:54. > :46:58.now for the last two years rises that amount to almost 11% have been

:46:59. > :47:01.levied on people and they are facing cuts in benefits and universal

:47:02. > :47:06.credit will be difficult and the council has chosen this particular

:47:07. > :47:09.time. Local authorities surely needed to be more efficient, and

:47:10. > :47:13.that is what is now happening in Wiltshire, they are more efficient?

:47:14. > :47:17.I wouldn't agree with that. I think we have lost too much. The cuts

:47:18. > :47:20.occurred during the years when there was no council tax paid and we will

:47:21. > :47:29.never see those services again, we will never get the music service

:47:30. > :47:32.pack all the children centres back and we will never get to put the

:47:33. > :47:34.voluntary sector back where it was. To go to my previous point, we have

:47:35. > :47:36.people are very difficult circumstances, low income families

:47:37. > :47:39.facing universal credit and the roll-out of the new benefit system

:47:40. > :47:44.and we now have cuts in the council tax relief scheme. It is a really

:47:45. > :47:47.hard time the people and we are not protecting the vulnerable or the

:47:48. > :47:51.children in our society and that is what we should be doing. We are

:47:52. > :47:55.looking at vanity projects. Back in 2013 said it was a very different

:47:56. > :47:59.picture with Ukip picking up a lot of seats. We were council in

:48:00. > :48:04.Hampshire and you lead the group for some time, what difference has Ukip

:48:05. > :48:07.made? What we have done is we have said there is an alternative option.

:48:08. > :48:12.Instead of the all parties just carrying on we have had Labour

:48:13. > :48:15.saying we will spend whenever possible and the Tories have said

:48:16. > :48:20.Hampshire County Council still has Hampshire County Council still has

:48:21. > :48:23.account that it does not spend but account that it does not spend but

:48:24. > :48:26.we have said you have to be sensible and work with the workers and you

:48:27. > :48:29.need to find out... What difference need to find out... What difference

:48:30. > :48:32.has it actually made? What about has it actually made? What about

:48:33. > :48:38.as there is a giant Tory majority as there is a giant Tory majority

:48:39. > :48:41.then of course it doesn't make any difference in the actual spending

:48:42. > :48:44.policies but what it does is it gives a voice to people and that is

:48:45. > :48:51.the best you can do as a minority party at the time. All we have to do

:48:52. > :48:54.is work and keep saying to people, is work and keep saying to people,

:48:55. > :48:58.you know, this is what we believe in, and it is a long process. It was

:48:59. > :49:01.about Europe really, though, wasn't it? Things go up and down in

:49:02. > :49:05.politics, we have all seen it. At the moment Labour is looking upon

:49:06. > :49:10.getting virtually annihilated in the general election, but they will be

:49:11. > :49:13.of being down. We will have a short of being down. We will have a short

:49:14. > :49:17.period in this election where we are going to find it tough but we will

:49:18. > :49:21.come back because we have the right answers. You all had a chance to

:49:22. > :49:25.talk about your local areas and parties but Caroline, you are a

:49:26. > :49:28.minister in this government, and I feel sometimes that the local

:49:29. > :49:30.Conservative leaders of county councils are the ones who are most

:49:31. > :49:35.opposed to what the central government is doing? We will not

:49:36. > :49:39.lie, it has been tough for everybody, for every council and

:49:40. > :49:44.but I think we now come out of this but I think we now come out of this

:49:45. > :49:46.and we move forward in this leaner, with much as waste, much less focus

:49:47. > :49:50.on the things that don't matter. A on the things that don't matter. A

:49:51. > :49:52.lot of anger in the country, and particularly amongst county

:49:53. > :49:56.councils, which is where the votes councils, which is where the votes

:49:57. > :49:57.will be. It must be difficult for conservative county councillors who

:49:58. > :50:01.run most of these councils to defend run most of these councils to defend

:50:02. > :50:05.do. We all have to make tough do. We all have to make tough

:50:06. > :50:09.decisions, as governor sisters there are tough decisions about how you

:50:10. > :50:13.business you have to question how business you have to question how

:50:14. > :50:17.for 20 years before going into for 20 years before going into

:50:18. > :50:19.politics and running a business you politics and running a business you

:50:20. > :50:23.look at keeping your cost damn and running efficiently and keeping your

:50:24. > :50:26.customers happy but keeping council tax low and keep the services strong

:50:27. > :50:29.and keeping the waste minimal has been what it has been all about, and

:50:30. > :50:37.we have cut mass of the waste minimal has been what it has been

:50:38. > :50:40.all about, and we have cut massive. Strong, lean, fit... Leads us on

:50:41. > :50:43.another thought. Now, we all know we probably ought

:50:44. > :50:46.to get a bit more exercise, maybe eat more healthily -

:50:47. > :50:49.governments have been telling But just telling us

:50:50. > :50:52.may not be enough. A year ago NHS England announced ten

:50:53. > :50:54.so-called Fit Towns which are trying to use things like the planning

:50:55. > :50:56.system to create Our Oxfordshire reporter

:50:57. > :50:59.Bethan Phillips put on her track suit to see how

:51:00. > :51:02.the idea's shaping up. We all know about some of the best

:51:03. > :51:04.ways to keep healthy. This is The NHS is convinced it can

:51:05. > :51:17.improve our health by making This time last year

:51:18. > :51:24.ten healthy towns were announced, and three

:51:25. > :51:26.of them are in the south. in Oxfordshire and the Bordon and

:51:27. > :51:29.Whitehill development in Hampshire. And with more and more of us

:51:30. > :51:32.becoming overweight and unfit, it is clear that taking steps to become

:51:33. > :51:35.healthier could have a big impact. I see a lot of patients in here

:51:36. > :51:43.who come for their blood pressure medications and their cholesterol

:51:44. > :51:46.tablets, and that's fine but going out and being more active

:51:47. > :51:49.and losing some weight is miles more effective than anything I can

:51:50. > :51:52.prescribe on my prescription pad and it comes without any side

:51:53. > :51:54.effects and it's free. Here in Bicester, the healthy town

:51:55. > :51:58.idea centres on this new housing Developers are trying to keep cars

:51:59. > :52:02.off the streets with parking away from homes, to give

:52:03. > :52:05.more children more room to play outside, but are these kinds of

:52:06. > :52:07.nudges towards healthier lifestyles Whether you are healthy or not

:52:08. > :52:13.is more than just about whether you have a takeaway on the corner

:52:14. > :52:17.or whether you have a cycle lane There are all sorts

:52:18. > :52:20.of things, like the levels We know that fresh fruits

:52:21. > :52:23.and vegetables are expensive. And if you are going

:52:24. > :52:26.to smoke, you will be as unhealthy in a healthy town

:52:27. > :52:29.as you will be in any other kind of The healthy towns project

:52:30. > :52:33.in Bicester is being widened out to include the whole area,

:52:34. > :52:39.so a year in, what stage are we at? We have spent a lot of time

:52:40. > :52:41.talking to teachers, talking to employers,

:52:42. > :52:43.talking to voluntary groups, to identify what the real issues

:52:44. > :52:46.are and what can be done to deliver A lot of talking so far but plans

:52:47. > :52:55.are in the pipeline for new cycling and walking

:52:56. > :52:59.routes and healthy events, controls on the kind of food

:53:00. > :53:03.children can access in schools. We are looking as much as possible

:53:04. > :53:06.at what can be done to encourage healthy opportunities, so

:53:07. > :53:09.not necessarily a ban on fast food but actually saying

:53:10. > :53:16.what are the food outlets, Children don't need

:53:17. > :53:21.that sort of thing. There are the schools that have got

:53:22. > :53:26.chip shops near them and the kids will go and have a portion of

:53:27. > :53:29.chips instead of eating healthy, so, I had loads of soft drinks

:53:30. > :53:36.and things when I was young but we played lots of sport

:53:37. > :53:39.and we went out all the time I think that's a far greater enemy

:53:40. > :53:43.to children's obesity than Healthy town status is bringing

:53:44. > :53:46.?1.2 million to Bicester, What I want to see

:53:47. > :53:51.is if you're going to put money behind a policy,

:53:52. > :53:54.what is the evidence And that is really critical,

:53:55. > :53:58.especially in times of austerity, You know, how else could that

:53:59. > :54:04.money be used if you are not developing the things that

:54:05. > :54:07.you have in these healthy towns? But experts say just

:54:08. > :54:09.because we don't have the research to back this up yet,

:54:10. > :54:13.it doesn't mean the idea won't work. We know that we have

:54:14. > :54:17.great evidence that there is a link between urbanisation

:54:18. > :54:20.and a link between environment and the way we behave in our health,

:54:21. > :54:23.so we know there is that link, so actually there is support

:54:24. > :54:25.for the healthy We haven't done evaluation

:54:26. > :54:28.on healthy towns themselves, but that

:54:29. > :54:29.is incredibly difficult to do before

:54:30. > :54:32.you build the healthy towns. So will healthy towns make us

:54:33. > :54:34.better, faster, stronger? It seems we will have

:54:35. > :54:36.to wait for the projects to be up and

:54:37. > :54:45.running to find out. that is the sort of thing that saves

:54:46. > :54:50.money in the long run, I guess. It must be difficult to do when all of

:54:51. > :54:54.the budgets are being cut? It is difficult to do when budgets are

:54:55. > :54:58.being cut but we have to look very carefully at road networks in the

:54:59. > :55:02.transport as well because a heavily life -- a healthy lives are as good

:55:03. > :55:05.but if you live in an area where you breathe polluted air you have a risk

:55:06. > :55:11.to your health they're so there are other concerns that we need to think

:55:12. > :55:14.about. We have introduced a scheme with people getting out of their

:55:15. > :55:17.cars and cycling and walking to school and it lasted six weeks that

:55:18. > :55:20.was great but we need to do more of that, we need to encourage more

:55:21. > :55:25.people to do the community thing of thinking about everyone else. Are

:55:26. > :55:29.good ideas like that being lost in local government? People of lots of

:55:30. > :55:32.good ideas and some of happening and this is one example. People

:55:33. > :55:34.recognise in the abstract that prevention is better than cure but

:55:35. > :55:52.without resorting it can't happen and unfortunately the

:55:53. > :55:55.competitors spending review cut expenditure on health prevention by

:55:56. > :55:57.3.9% a year and the King 's fund has done really good research Samak

:55:58. > :55:59.councils need to hack away even more than that. Another example is that

:56:00. > :56:01.older people suffer from isolation which imposes costs on themselves

:56:02. > :56:04.and their families but rural bus networks are being hacked away.

:56:05. > :56:07.People know what the right thing to do is but if it isn't backed by

:56:08. > :56:10.resource links then councils have to make false economies and cut back

:56:11. > :56:12.and at the end of the day the more vulnerable in society suffer. This

:56:13. > :56:15.sort of decision is being made and people have heard about it and they

:56:16. > :56:19.are voting on it in council elections. Absolutely, that is why

:56:20. > :56:24.the government is investing in healthy towns. Three places in the

:56:25. > :56:29.south of England? Right across the UK. If you look at childhood

:56:30. > :56:33.obesity, it doubles at primary school, it is one in ten of children

:56:34. > :56:36.aged five and one in five of children when they get to 11 and

:56:37. > :56:41.that is partly because children are not playing out anymore. Only 21% of

:56:42. > :56:48.children play outside where 71% of their parents did so we need to have

:56:49. > :56:52.more play facilities and cycling routes and make housing... Is this

:56:53. > :56:56.happening? People should not be listening to the cries that we do

:56:57. > :57:01.not have money to get on and do it? It is happening, you can see on your

:57:02. > :57:06.BT that it is not pie in the sky, it is happening. On a new town

:57:07. > :57:09.development but not everywhere? It is much more difficult to do

:57:10. > :57:14.retrospectively to our towns and cities that are hundreds of years

:57:15. > :57:17.old but if we didn't do this with our new housing developments in ten

:57:18. > :57:22.years' time we would be kicking ourselves because one in six deaths

:57:23. > :57:26.has some direct attribution to inactivity and that costs the

:57:27. > :57:30.economy ?7.5 billion per year and we have to do something about it and

:57:31. > :57:35.the best place to start is in big new housing developments. This sort

:57:36. > :57:39.of forward-thinking stuff is not efficient but it saves money in the

:57:40. > :57:44.long run? Huge problem we have been the last 30 or 40 years is all of

:57:45. > :57:47.the school play yards were closed down, sold off for more housing

:57:48. > :57:53.developments. Kids have got nowhere to go out and play. There is nowhere

:57:54. > :57:56.for them to go and play so they hang around and instead of which, give

:57:57. > :58:01.them playing fields, give them football fields to play in. Make

:58:02. > :58:06.sure that part of those, we see all the new housing developments now but

:58:07. > :58:08.there is nothing there. All they are is commuter warrants. There is

:58:09. > :58:13.nowhere for people to play and we need to restore, whenever we build a

:58:14. > :58:22.school, make sure it has facilities. Is that happening? They were sold

:58:23. > :58:25.off in the last Labour government and I have stayed in my constituency

:58:26. > :58:31.that we had a massive 3G community pitch and we have a massive new

:58:32. > :58:33.sports hall. At a local level budgets are so tight that

:58:34. > :58:36.playgrounds are still being closed because they cannot maintain the

:58:37. > :58:39.equipment that is getting old. School sport has been massively

:58:40. > :58:42.reduced across the country and we all know that is happening because

:58:43. > :58:47.schools are really struggling. Some of this just needs a reality check.

:58:48. > :58:50.We hear about these beautiful new housing developments but the truth

:58:51. > :58:53.is school sports are being hammered and investment in preventative

:58:54. > :58:58.health services is being cut and on the front line people are really

:58:59. > :59:02.struggling and people like Carolina in denial. You have to consider

:59:03. > :59:05.where to go back to to start correcting the problem and it has to

:59:06. > :59:09.start in the home and at school. You have to have children educated into

:59:10. > :59:13.eating properly and exercising properly. We have a health service

:59:14. > :59:17.at the moment that does not cope with it education service that isn't

:59:18. > :59:20.coping either so I don't know where you would start but you need to

:59:21. > :59:25.start in the home and talk healthy eating and healthy exercise and that

:59:26. > :59:30.that is the way you will start. That needs more money but overall there

:59:31. > :59:35.is just not enough in the pot. It starts with education and health and

:59:36. > :59:38.this government has put an extra ?10 billion into health funding in

:59:39. > :59:42.England and if you want to see what happens to a health service that is

:59:43. > :59:47.underfunded, or you have to do is look at the Labour run Welsh

:59:48. > :59:50.National health service. Talk to someone education expat people

:59:51. > :59:55.aren't stupid, you don't need to tell them to eat healthily and

:59:56. > :59:59.exercise, people know that. These games work. You need to give people

:00:00. > :00:07.the absolute ability to do these things. If you can to someone who is

:00:08. > :00:09.living in a tightly built housing estate and saying, you need to do

:00:10. > :00:12.more exercise, they will around you, and they will say where? There is a

:00:13. > :00:17.road full of pollution, they can't do that. Last word to you, Ed. This

:00:18. > :00:21.is, you are saying it is a failing system at the moment and the sort of

:00:22. > :00:24.things are not happening? Absolutely, when you talk to

:00:25. > :00:27.front-line professionals health service, they are desperate for more

:00:28. > :00:32.intervention but we have hospitals at crisis point out any clock full

:00:33. > :00:35.of people who should be seen by GPs instead and unfortunately old people

:00:36. > :00:36.are shacked up in hospital wards and they should be in social care

:00:37. > :00:40.we will take the mandate that we want. To all three of you, thank

:00:41. > :00:52.you. Andrew, back to you. So, how will Thursday's local

:00:53. > :00:54.election results affect Who's winning the

:00:55. > :00:57.election ground war? And as he celebrates 100

:00:58. > :01:15.days in the White House, We have the local elections, Metro

:01:16. > :01:19.elections in Liverpool, greater Birmingham, West Midlands, how will

:01:20. > :01:23.they play into the general election? Significantly, it is very unusual.

:01:24. > :01:28.People keep comparing this with the election in 83, not! Margaret

:01:29. > :01:31.Thatcher was nervous and to wait until after the local elections to

:01:32. > :01:35.call the election to see the result. We are getting these result in the

:01:36. > :01:41.middle of an election campaign so it will be important, whoever does

:01:42. > :01:44.badly will suffer a dent in confidence in terms of how they

:01:45. > :01:49.approach the election and we are also going to have mayoral figures

:01:50. > :01:54.as a reminder of another big difference with the 80s that however

:01:55. > :01:58.big, say, the Conservatives win in Westminster, there are now sectors

:01:59. > :02:01.of power in other parts of the United Kingdom which were not there

:02:02. > :02:06.in the 80s. One of the reasons niches that are rated in 83 was

:02:07. > :02:12.memories were still alive in political circles of 1970, Wilson

:02:13. > :02:16.saw the local election results and thought, I can win, he was told he

:02:17. > :02:20.would win by the Economist magazine, who had done the analysis, and of

:02:21. > :02:28.course he lost, so that is why she waited, Mrs May does not need to

:02:29. > :02:31.wait for that at all now, and on the Metro elections, the one she will be

:02:32. > :02:35.looking at is the West Midlands, that is the one that is a

:02:36. > :02:38.competition. I think she can really lose on Thursday in the local

:02:39. > :02:43.elections, governing parties are supposed to take effect again,

:02:44. > :02:49.losing lots of council seats. She is projected to put on 100 or so seats,

:02:50. > :02:53.Labour projected to lose around 200, the first time the main opposition

:02:54. > :02:57.party has shed seats since something like 83 so clearly the local

:02:58. > :03:00.elections give Mrs May great momentum going into the general

:03:01. > :03:04.election campaign but there is a downside in that, which is what we

:03:05. > :03:09.have already heard fighting about this morning, if it looks like it is

:03:10. > :03:13.going too well for the Tories, it says to voters, why bother turning

:03:14. > :03:16.up? Sushi comes up with totally unbelievable sound bites this

:03:17. > :03:23.morning that this is the most important general election in her

:03:24. > :03:29.lifetime. Really?! For her it is! It always is until the next one! I

:03:30. > :03:34.wonder if voter turnout is a problem? Tory voters are more likely

:03:35. > :03:39.to vote than Labour voters. If there is a sense that it is all over bar

:03:40. > :03:43.the shouting, the overall turnout will be low that Tory voters are

:03:44. > :03:48.still likely to turn out more than Labour voters so she would still win

:03:49. > :03:52.some. I don't think she needs to be too worried, I think there will be a

:03:53. > :03:59.significantly low turnout, even I am finding it hard to be that excited

:04:00. > :04:03.about this general election. Really, the policies, we have spent a lot of

:04:04. > :04:08.time talking about them today and we have to examine them, but all this

:04:09. > :04:12.is about is, do you want Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn in Number Ten?

:04:13. > :04:16.Those are the only question is, apart from possibly how strong do

:04:17. > :04:21.you feel about Brexit, that will be on the voters' minds. You may say

:04:22. > :04:25.that but I will not be put off from going through a list of policies

:04:26. > :04:32.that we have already had in the last 24 hours. On the Conservatives, more

:04:33. > :04:39.powers to stop company bosses under pensions, of course Philip Green was

:04:40. > :04:44.in mind there. Labour has come up with quite a few policies, actually,

:04:45. > :04:54.give all work of equal rights, whether part-time or full-time,

:04:55. > :04:58.temporary or permanent. Ukip, scrap VAT or takeaway -- on takeaway food

:04:59. > :05:04.and end the BBC licence fee. The Liberal Democrats have come out

:05:05. > :05:11.posed to the runway at Heathrow. I thought I knew that already? Will

:05:12. > :05:17.any of these policies make a difference? They are all nice handy

:05:18. > :05:22.things that people quite liked but probably not, is the answer. They

:05:23. > :05:25.are an awful way away from polling day now for people to remember and

:05:26. > :05:31.latch onto. I don't think you make your mind up on small issues like

:05:32. > :05:34.Heathrow, unless you live in Richmond-upon-Thames, maybe, but the

:05:35. > :05:39.problem Labour have got with unfailing a lot of these retail type

:05:40. > :05:43.policies which, in themselves, are very popular, is no one will listen

:05:44. > :05:47.to them until they get over the leadership credibility issue. Jeremy

:05:48. > :05:50.Corbyn could the world on a stick, but if no one believes he can

:05:51. > :05:54.deliver it then he will not be listened to and he has not done much

:05:55. > :05:57.apart from a speech yesterday in which is claim to fame was getting

:05:58. > :06:03.arrested, I don't see how that would work for him getting to Number Ten.

:06:04. > :06:09.They are not making progress on it. Labour has rolled out a number of

:06:10. > :06:14.policies which, taken individually, would have certain traction in

:06:15. > :06:17.normal times, quite interesting ideas, this sense of unfairness, a

:06:18. > :06:23.feeling that ordinary workers have not done well out of the recovery,

:06:24. > :06:27.those who caused the crash have, 20 points, I went through some of them

:06:28. > :06:31.earlier, putting aside they are not costed, we are assured they will be.

:06:32. > :06:38.The problem I suggest is not the costing but the cut through? Every

:06:39. > :06:41.election has a context which is determined by opinion polls, however

:06:42. > :06:44.sceptical we are these days, and if one party is way ahead it is

:06:45. > :06:50.difficult for the other party to appear relevant, because if people

:06:51. > :06:54.assume they are not going to win, even some of its own MPs are saying,

:06:55. > :07:02.we are not going to win this, so you can vote for us, it is very hard to

:07:03. > :07:05.get attention and relevance. Where I think all the parties are bad with

:07:06. > :07:11.their current leaders is framing arguments, so those policies you

:07:12. > :07:15.have highlighted makes sense. The best leaders are brilliant framers

:07:16. > :07:21.of an argument and neither Theresa Maynor Jeremy Corbyn R. They have

:07:22. > :07:26.been campaigning, their manifestos are not out yet, both sides have

:07:27. > :07:29.been telling us we have to wait for costings, but it has not stopped

:07:30. > :07:34.them campaigning. Let's remind you of where they have been and what

:07:35. > :07:39.they have been doing so far. Let's start with Jeremy Corbyn, his

:07:40. > :07:43.first official visit was in the ultra-marginal Conservative seat of

:07:44. > :07:48.Croydon Central where the MP Gavin Barwell has a lead of just 165. That

:07:49. > :07:52.is not the only Conservative seat he has visited, along the way he popped

:07:53. > :07:59.in on Bristol North West, a Conservative majority of nearly

:08:00. > :08:06.5000. The Tory seat of Cardiff North, a lead of just over 2000,

:08:07. > :08:11.Warrington South, just over 2700, and Crewe and Nantwich, Tory

:08:12. > :08:17.majority of three and a half thousand. Yesterday he visited

:08:18. > :08:22.Bethnal greed and Bob, a Labour lead of 20 4000. Theresa May kicked off

:08:23. > :08:27.her campaign in Bolton, Labour majority of over 4000. On her way

:08:28. > :08:31.round the UK she had a comfy stop in her own maidenhead seat, where she

:08:32. > :08:35.is defending a majority of nearly 30,000, before travelling to other

:08:36. > :08:42.Labour marginals including Dudley North, a Labour lead of 4000.

:08:43. > :08:44.Bridgend, a lead of just under 2004 Labour, before becoming ambitious

:08:45. > :09:00.and visiting shadow minister Richard Bergen's Leeds East seat, which he

:09:01. > :09:02.won by over 12,500 votes. Yesterday she went north of the border to

:09:03. > :09:04.Aberdeenshire, where amongst other places she visited the SNP seat of

:09:05. > :09:05.West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine, where the Tories would have to gain

:09:06. > :09:13.over 7000 votes to unseat the NP. What do you make of it all so far?

:09:14. > :09:17.It is remarkable she is doing these visits in Scotland. Past but even

:09:18. > :09:21.five years and the idea of a Tory Prime Minister going round Scotland

:09:22. > :09:25.would be utterly counter-productive, and actually they are ambitious for

:09:26. > :09:29.Scotland now under with Davidson, a prospect of multiple seats, and that

:09:30. > :09:32.would be a real genuine shift in Scottish politics, the likes of

:09:33. > :09:43.which we have not seen for 15 or 20 years. If she gets that, that helps

:09:44. > :09:47.towards 100 seats, because if she wins ten in Scotland, it is

:09:48. > :09:51.effectively 20, the SNP lose ten, she gains ten, she wants to do that

:09:52. > :09:57.in the Midlands with Labour, and the North. To get the 100 majority,

:09:58. > :10:02.other than Scotland, she has to win Labour seats, that is all that is

:10:03. > :10:06.there. And clearly she has been told, it is obvious, that she has a

:10:07. > :10:09.chance of doing so, otherwise you don't go to these parts of the

:10:10. > :10:15.country in the first few days of the campaign. All logic points to her

:10:16. > :10:19.being able to pull it off as well. The opinion polls, the state of the

:10:20. > :10:23.Labour Party. The only qualification I have in this is that politics is

:10:24. > :10:31.so wild and free Braille at the moment, it doesn't feel like

:10:32. > :10:36.landslide to rain. That is true, it doesn't. It is early days, we

:10:37. > :10:40.haven't yet had the manifestos, the campaign is yet to gather momentum.

:10:41. > :10:48.It doesn't feel like landslide territory. I disagree, look at every

:10:49. > :10:53.single poll, the Tory lead is 10% in Wales, you can see her picking up 20

:10:54. > :10:57.seat there. Put this together, I am told by the way she is going into

:10:58. > :11:03.traditional Labour heartland again tomorrow, the key is the Ukip vote.

:11:04. > :11:22.That will implode... Crumble towards Tories? If she can hoover that up

:11:23. > :11:23.and retain the Tory vote, she will have a majority of 150.

:11:24. > :11:24.I cannot let you go without reminding you that it is Donald

:11:25. > :11:24.Trump's 100 days. He's not making a lot of it now, this is what he said

:11:25. > :11:26.last night. We are just beginning in our fight

:11:27. > :11:29.to make America great again. Now, before we talk about my first

:11:30. > :11:39.100 days, which has been very exciting and very productive,

:11:40. > :11:43.let's rate the media's 100 days. Because, as you know,

:11:44. > :12:03.they are a disgrace. There you go, still bashing the

:12:04. > :12:08.media, that was at a rally in Virginia, the 100 days was last

:12:09. > :12:12.night. He seems happier campaigning than running the country. You each

:12:13. > :12:20.have 20 seconds to give me your board on the first 100 days.

:12:21. > :12:25.Remarkable, he will not stop slagging off the media but America

:12:26. > :12:28.first has not meant America first in terms of national policy, he has

:12:29. > :12:34.reneges on what he said about Nato being obsolete. He is moving from

:12:35. > :12:42.the old right to the centre because that is where you get things done,

:12:43. > :12:47.he is a pragmatist, also is about's friend Nigel Parrott is no longer

:12:48. > :12:53.welcome, we read this morning! Allegedly! He loves campaigning but

:12:54. > :12:56.finds governing much more difficult. Who would have thought being

:12:57. > :13:00.president of the United States was a difficult job?! He loves rallies but

:13:01. > :13:06.being president and politics is a very difficult thing indeed. Thank

:13:07. > :13:07.you, there we go, Mr Trump's 100 days, we will see what the next 100

:13:08. > :13:10.brings. The Daily Politics is back

:13:11. > :13:13.on BBC Two after the bank holiday on Tuesday at midday,

:13:14. > :13:15.with all the latest And I'll be back here

:13:16. > :13:18.on BBC One next Sunday Remember - if it's Sunday,

:13:19. > :14:25.it's the Sunday Politics. The East End girl who became the

:14:26. > :14:28.nation's favourite. We don't know what it is,

:14:29. > :14:32.but she definitely has... Something. From stage to screen

:14:33. > :14:38.and into our hearts. Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!

:14:39. > :14:45.Ooh, in't she wonderful? If you're not careful, you'll end up

:14:46. > :14:49.playing this sexy little blonde