:00:37. > :00:40.It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:41. > :00:43.Theresa May unveils plans to build many more affordable homes
:00:44. > :00:46.in England, but with no price tag, timetable or building targets -
:00:47. > :00:53.Labour takes aim at the City with what it calls a Robin Hood Tax
:00:54. > :00:55.to fund public services, but will traders just
:00:56. > :00:59.Don't look at the polls - Jeremy Corbyn, at least,
:01:00. > :01:02.insists he can win this election - so which way will
:01:03. > :01:06.We'll hear from a focus group in Leeds.
:01:07. > :01:09.In the south, we are in Oxfordshire with an audience of voters
:01:10. > :01:11.and three politicians who want to win their votes.
:01:12. > :01:16.Will it be the NHS, transport or Brexit that swings it?
:01:17. > :01:17.and here, what the parties are saying about tackling the air
:01:18. > :01:25.pollution problem in London. And with me, our own scientifically
:01:26. > :01:29.selected focus group of political pundits -
:01:30. > :01:31.they're not so much undecided as clueless -
:01:32. > :01:33.Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott They'll be tweeting
:01:34. > :01:40.throughout the programme. So, we've got two new
:01:41. > :01:42.policies this morning. Labour say they will introduce
:01:43. > :01:44.a financial transaction tax if they win the general election
:01:45. > :01:47.and what they're calling "the biggest crackdown on tax
:01:48. > :01:49.avoidance in the country's history". The Conservatives say they'll work
:01:50. > :01:51.with local authorities in England to build council houses
:01:52. > :01:54.with the right to buy. Theresa May says the policy
:01:55. > :01:56."will help thousands of people get on the first rung
:01:57. > :02:09.of the housing ladder". Steve, what do you make of them? I
:02:10. > :02:13.have been conditioned after doing tax and spend debates in
:02:14. > :02:17.pre-election periods for many decades to treat policy is not as
:02:18. > :02:22.literal but as arguments. In other words if you look back to 2015 the
:02:23. > :02:26.Tory plan to wipe out the deficit was never going to happen and yet it
:02:27. > :02:30.framed and large event. In that sense the Robin Hood tax is a
:02:31. > :02:35.sensible move for Labour to make at this point because it is part of a
:02:36. > :02:38.narrative of reconfiguring taxation to be fair. Treating it as an
:02:39. > :02:46.argument rather than something that would happen in day one of Labour
:02:47. > :02:48.government is sensible. In terms of building houses Theresa May said
:02:49. > :02:51.right from the beginning when she was in Number Ten that there is a
:02:52. > :02:55.housing deficit in this country rather than the economic deficit
:02:56. > :03:00.George Osborne was focusing on, and this is an example of trying to get
:03:01. > :03:04.house-building going. It seems entirely sensible, not sure how it
:03:05. > :03:09.works with right to buy but again as framing of a 90 minute it makes
:03:10. > :03:17.sense. I disagree with Steve on one front which is how sensible Theresa
:03:18. > :03:21.May's policy is on the housing announcement. I think more broadly
:03:22. > :03:24.these two announcements have something in common which is that
:03:25. > :03:31.over the next 24 hours both will probably unravel in different ways.
:03:32. > :03:35.Ye of little faith! The Mayor of London has already said he doesn't
:03:36. > :03:41.agree with this, and when people see the actual impact of what looks like
:03:42. > :03:46.a populist tax will very potentially affect people's pensions, it might
:03:47. > :03:50.become a lot less popular. On the Tory housing plans, I think it is
:03:51. > :03:55.difficult to imagine how they are going to implement this huge, what
:03:56. > :04:01.looks like a huge land and property grab. Through compulsory purchase
:04:02. > :04:04.orders, which are not a simple instrument. They say they will
:04:05. > :04:08.change the law but really the idea of paying people below the market
:04:09. > :04:13.value for their assets is not something I can see sitting easily
:04:14. > :04:20.with Tory backbenchers or the Tories in the House of Lords. Tom. Both
:04:21. > :04:24.would appear superficially to be appealing to traditional left and
:04:25. > :04:31.traditional right bases. What is more Tory than right to buy, then
:04:32. > :04:38.councils sell on these houses, and Labour slapping a massive tax on the
:04:39. > :04:41.city. The Tories' plan, I would say look a bit deeper and all of the
:04:42. > :04:46.Tory narrative from the last six years which hasn't worked well is
:04:47. > :04:50.talking about the private sector increasing supply in the market. Now
:04:51. > :04:58.Mrs May is talking about the role for the state after all so this is
:04:59. > :05:02.the shift creeping in. On the Labour transaction tax, one of the most
:05:03. > :05:09.interesting things I heard in days was from Paul Mason, former BBC
:05:10. > :05:12.correspondent, now a cog in Easter extreme. On Newsnight he said don't
:05:13. > :05:17.worry about whether the Labour manifesto will add up, I'm promising
:05:18. > :05:24.it will, the bigger Tory attack line should be what on earth will be the
:05:25. > :05:29.macroeconomic effect of taking so much tax out of the system. Very
:05:30. > :05:32.well, we shall see. At least we have some policies to talk about.
:05:33. > :05:34.Now, on Tuesday Labour will launch its manifesto.
:05:35. > :05:37.But we've already got a pretty good idea of what's in it -
:05:38. > :05:39.that's because most of its contents were leaked to the media
:05:40. > :05:48.Labour has a variety of spending pledges including an extra
:05:49. > :05:51.?6 billion a year for the NHS, an additional ?8 billion for social
:05:52. > :05:53.care over the lifetime of the next parliament,
:05:54. > :05:55.as well as a ?250 billion in infrastructure over
:05:56. > :06:03.The party will support the renewal of the Trident submarine system,
:06:04. > :06:04.although any Prime Minister should be extremely cautious
:06:05. > :06:07.about its use, and the party will hold a strategic defence
:06:08. > :06:10.and security review immediately after the election.
:06:11. > :06:12.In terms of immigration, Labour will seek "reasonable
:06:13. > :06:14.management of migration", but it will not make "false
:06:15. > :06:21.Elsewhere, university tuition fees will be abolished,
:06:22. > :06:23.and the public sector pay cap, which limits pay rises
:06:24. > :06:27.for public sector workers to 1%, will be scrapped.
:06:28. > :06:30.The party also aims to renationalise the railways, the Royal Mail
:06:31. > :06:37.and the National Grid, as well as creating at least one
:06:38. > :06:42.A senior Labour backbencher described it to the Sunday Politics
:06:43. > :06:45.as a manifesto for a leadership who don't "give a toss
:06:46. > :06:47.about the wider public", and several other Labour candidates
:06:48. > :06:49.told us they thought it had been deliberately
:06:50. > :06:53.leaked by the leadership, with one suggesting
:06:54. > :06:55.the leak was intended to "bounce the National Executive"
:06:56. > :06:58.And we're joined now from Salford by the Shadow Business Secretary,
:06:59. > :07:07.Welcome to the programme. The draft manifesto proposed to renationalise
:07:08. > :07:11.the number of industry. You will wait for the franchises to run out
:07:12. > :07:16.rather than buy them out at the moment so can you confirm the
:07:17. > :07:20.railways will not be wholly nationalised until 2030, after three
:07:21. > :07:26.Labour governments, and Jeremy Corbyn will be 80? I'm not going to
:07:27. > :07:33.comment on leaks, you will just have to be patient and wait to see what
:07:34. > :07:37.is in our manifesto. But you have already announced you will
:07:38. > :07:42.nationalise the railways, so tell me about it. We have discussed taking
:07:43. > :07:46.the franchises into public ownership as they expire, however the detail
:07:47. > :07:51.will be set out in the manifesto so I'm not prepared to go into detail
:07:52. > :07:55.until that policy is formally laid out on Tuesday. That doesn't sound
:07:56. > :08:02.very hopeful but let's carry on. You will also nationalise the National
:08:03. > :08:07.Grid, it has a market capitalisation of ?40 billion, why do you want to
:08:08. > :08:12.nationalise that? Again, I'm not going to speculate on leaks, you
:08:13. > :08:18.will just have to be patient. But you said you will nationalise the
:08:19. > :08:22.National Grid so tell's Y. The leaks have suggested but you will just
:08:23. > :08:26.have to wait and see what the final manifesto states on that one. So is
:08:27. > :08:31.it a waste of time me asking you how you will pay for something that
:08:32. > :08:37.costs 40 billion? Be patient, just couple of days to go, but what I
:08:38. > :08:41.would say is there is growing pressure from the public to reform
:08:42. > :08:44.the utilities sector. The Competition and Markets Authority
:08:45. > :08:50.stated in 2015 that bill payers were paying over till debt -- ?2 billion
:08:51. > :08:56.in excess of what they should be paying so there is a clear need for
:08:57. > :09:00.reform. The bills we get are from the energy companies, you are not
:09:01. > :09:03.going to nationalise them, you are going to nationalise the
:09:04. > :09:08.distribution company and I wondered what is the case for nationalising
:09:09. > :09:13.the distribution company? As I said, our full plans will be set out on
:09:14. > :09:16.Tuesday. In relation to the big six energy companies, we know in recent
:09:17. > :09:24.years they have been overcharging customers... There's no point in
:09:25. > :09:30.answering questions I am not asking. I am asking what is the case for
:09:31. > :09:33.nationalising the National Grid? There is a case for reforming the
:09:34. > :09:38.energy sector as a whole and that looks at the activities of the big
:09:39. > :09:43.six companies and it will look at other aspects too. You will have to
:09:44. > :09:49.be patient and wait until Tuesday. What about the Royal Mail? Again,
:09:50. > :09:54.you will have to wait until Tuesday. Why can't you just be honest with
:09:55. > :10:01.the British voter? We know you are going to do this and you have a duty
:10:02. > :10:07.to explain. I'm not even arguing whether it is right or wrong. The
:10:08. > :10:11.Royal Mail was sold off and we know it was sold under value and British
:10:12. > :10:15.taxpayers have a reason to feel aggrieved about that. There is a
:10:16. > :10:19.long-term strategy that would ensure the Royal Mail was classified as a
:10:20. > :10:24.key piece of infrastructure but the details of that will be set out in
:10:25. > :10:27.our manifesto because we want to ensure businesses and households
:10:28. > :10:32.ensure the best quality of service when it comes to their postal
:10:33. > :10:37.providers. You plan to borrow an extra 25 billion per year, John
:10:38. > :10:41.McDonnell has already announced this, on public investment, on top
:10:42. > :10:47.of the around 50 billion already being planned for investment. You
:10:48. > :10:54.will borrow it all so that means, if you can confirm, that many years
:10:55. > :11:01.after the crash by 2021, Labour government would still be borrowing
:11:02. > :11:07.75 billion a year. Is that correct? We have set out ?250 billion of
:11:08. > :11:11.capital investment, and ?250 billion for a national investment bank. Our
:11:12. > :11:15.financial and fiscal rules dictate we will leave the Government in a
:11:16. > :11:18.state of less debt than we found it at the start of the parliament so we
:11:19. > :11:25.won't increase the national debt at the end of our Parliamentary term.
:11:26. > :11:29.How can you do that if by 2021 you will still be borrowing around 75
:11:30. > :11:36.billion a year, which is more than we borrow at the moment? The 500
:11:37. > :11:40.billion figure is set out over a period of ten years, it's a figure
:11:41. > :11:43.that has been suggested by Peter Helm from Oxford University as a
:11:44. > :11:48.figure that is necessary to bring us in line with other industrial
:11:49. > :11:56.competitors. Similar figures have been suggested by groups such as the
:11:57. > :11:59.CBI. By the way I have not included all 500 billion, just the 250
:12:00. > :12:05.billion on public spending, not the extra money. You talk about the
:12:06. > :12:09.fiscal rules. The draft manifesto said you will leave debt as a
:12:10. > :12:16.proportion of trend GDP law at the end of each parliament, you have
:12:17. > :12:20.just said a version of that. What is trend GDP? In clear terms we will
:12:21. > :12:24.ensure the debt we acquire will be reduced by the end of the
:12:25. > :12:31.parliament. We won't leave the Government finances in a worse state
:12:32. > :12:36.than we found them. OK, but what is trend GDP? Our rule is we will
:12:37. > :12:40.ensure public sector net debt is less than we found it when we came
:12:41. > :12:48.to power in Government on June the 8th. But that is not what your draft
:12:49. > :12:51.manifesto says. I'm not going to comment on leaks, you are just going
:12:52. > :12:57.to have to wait until Tuesday to look at the fine detail and perhaps
:12:58. > :13:00.we will have another chat then. You have published your plans for
:13:01. > :13:04.corporation tax and you will increase it by a third and your
:13:05. > :13:09.predictions assumed that will get an extra 20 billion a year by the end
:13:10. > :13:13.of the parliament. But that assumes the companies don't change their
:13:14. > :13:18.behaviour, that they move money around, they leave the country or
:13:19. > :13:23.they generate smaller profits. Is that realistic? You are right to
:13:24. > :13:27.make that point and you will see when we set out our policies and
:13:28. > :13:33.costings in the manifesto that we haven't spent all of the tax take.
:13:34. > :13:35.We have allowed for different differentials and potential changes
:13:36. > :13:40.in market activity because that would be approved and direction to
:13:41. > :13:48.take. But corporation tax is allowed to be cut in France and the United
:13:49. > :13:51.States, it's only 12.5% in Dublin. Many companies based in Britain are
:13:52. > :13:56.already wondering whether they should relocate because of Brexit,
:13:57. > :14:01.if you increase this tax by a third couldn't that clinch it for a number
:14:02. > :14:07.of them? No, we will still be one of the lowest corporation tax rate in
:14:08. > :14:11.the G7. Let's look at what's important for business. Cutting
:14:12. > :14:15.corporation tax in itself doesn't improve productivity, or business
:14:16. > :14:18.investment and there's no suggestion cutting corporation tax in recent
:14:19. > :14:24.years has achieved that. Businesses need an investment in tools in
:14:25. > :14:29.things they need to thrive and prosper, they also need to reduce
:14:30. > :14:34.the burden at the lower end of the tax scale, before we get to the
:14:35. > :14:41.Prophet stage. One key example is business rates. We have made the
:14:42. > :14:44.proposal to government to in -- exclude machinery so businesses can
:14:45. > :14:51.invest and grow operations in the future but the Government refused.
:14:52. > :15:01.Corporation tax has been cut since 2010. When it was 28% it brought in
:15:02. > :15:08.?43 billion a year. Now it is down to 20%, it brought in ?55 billion a
:15:09. > :15:14.year. By cutting it in the last year, it brought in 21% more, so
:15:15. > :15:18.what is the problem? It might have brought in more money, but has it
:15:19. > :15:24.increased business investment in the long term. It is not just about
:15:25. > :15:28.cutting corporation tax, but it is on the ability of businesses to
:15:29. > :15:34.thrive and prosper. Business investment in the UK is below are
:15:35. > :15:41.industrial competitors. Wages are stagnating which doesn't indicate
:15:42. > :15:46.businesses are not doing well. Let me get it right, you are arguing if
:15:47. > :15:52.we increase business tax by a third, that will increase investment? I am
:15:53. > :16:00.not saying that. You just did. Know I didn't, I said reducing business
:16:01. > :16:03.tax isn't enough, you have to invest in the things businesses need to
:16:04. > :16:16.thrive and prosper. You have also got to lessen the burden on
:16:17. > :16:20.business. You have announced a financial transaction tax. Your own
:16:21. > :16:25.labour Mayor of London said he has vowed to fight it. He said I do not
:16:26. > :16:31.want a unilateral tax on business in our city, so why are you proceeding
:16:32. > :16:34.with it? This isn't a new initiative, there is a growing
:16:35. > :16:38.global pressure to make sure we have fairness in the financial sector.
:16:39. > :16:44.Ordinary British people are paying for our banking crisis they didn't
:16:45. > :16:49.cause. Another important point, stamp duty reserve tax was brought
:16:50. > :16:53.in in the 1600 and there have been little reforms. The sector has
:16:54. > :16:58.changed and we have do provide changes to the system for that
:16:59. > :17:03.change. High-frequency trading where we have a state of affairs where a
:17:04. > :17:07.lot of shares are traded on computers within milliseconds. We
:17:08. > :17:14.need a tax system that keeps up with that. What happens if they move the
:17:15. > :17:19.computers to another country? Emily Thornaby said this morning, other
:17:20. > :17:22.countries had already introduced a financial transaction tax, what
:17:23. > :17:30.other countries have done that? There are ten countries looking at
:17:31. > :17:37.introducing a transaction tax. Which ones have done it so far? They will
:17:38. > :17:42.be later announcing a final package, going through the finer detail at
:17:43. > :17:46.the moment. But the European Commission tried to get this done in
:17:47. > :17:51.2011 and it still hasn't happened in any of these countries. But you are
:17:52. > :17:56.going to go ahead unilaterally and risk these businesses, which
:17:57. > :18:00.generate a lot of money, moving to other jurisdictions. There is not a
:18:01. > :18:11.significant risk of that happening. The stamp duty reserve tax is levied
:18:12. > :18:16.at either where the person or company is domiciled or where the
:18:17. > :18:21.instrument is issued rather than worth the transaction takes place.
:18:22. > :18:24.This tax in itself is not enough to make people leave this country in
:18:25. > :18:29.terms of financial services because there is more to keep these
:18:30. > :18:33.businesses here in terms of the investment we are making, the
:18:34. > :18:37.economy that Labour will build, in terms of productivity improvement we
:18:38. > :18:41.will see. Thank you very much, Rebecca Long-Bailey.
:18:42. > :18:47.And listening to that was the Home Office Minister, Brandon Lewis.
:18:48. > :18:53.Over the years, you have got corporation tax by 20%, it is lower
:18:54. > :19:00.than international standards, so why are so many global companies who
:19:01. > :19:05.make money out of Great Britain, still not paying 20%? It is one of
:19:06. > :19:08.the problems with the point Labour were making and Rebecca could not
:19:09. > :19:14.answer, these companies can move around the world. One of the
:19:15. > :19:18.important things is having a low tax economy but these businesses, it
:19:19. > :19:23.encourages them to come at a rate they are prepared to pay. People may
:19:24. > :19:29.say they are right, if they were paying 19, 20% incorporation tax.
:19:30. > :19:38.But they are not. Google runs a multi-million pound corporation and
:19:39. > :19:42.did not pay anywhere near 20%. There are companies that are trading
:19:43. > :19:50.internationally and that is why we have to get this work done with our
:19:51. > :19:54.partners around the world. Has there been an improvement? It is more than
:19:55. > :19:58.they were paying before. Whether it is Google or any other company,
:19:59. > :20:04.alongside them being here, apart from the tax they pay, it is the
:20:05. > :20:08.people they employ. The deal was, if you cut the business tax, the
:20:09. > :20:13.corporation tax on profits, we would get more companies coming here and
:20:14. > :20:17.more companies paying their tax. It seems it doesn't matter how low, a
:20:18. > :20:24.number of companies just pay a derisory amount and you haven't been
:20:25. > :20:26.able to change that. As you outlined, the income taken from the
:20:27. > :20:34.changing corporation tax has gone up. That is from established British
:20:35. > :20:37.companies, not from these international companies. It is
:20:38. > :20:41.because more companies are coming here and paying tax. That is a good
:20:42. > :20:47.thing. There is always more to do and that is why we want to crack
:20:48. > :20:51.down. In the last few weeks in the Finnish Parliament, Labour refused
:20:52. > :20:57.to put to another ?8.7 billion of tax take we could have got by
:20:58. > :21:02.cracking down further. You claim to have made great progress on cracking
:21:03. > :21:07.down on people and companies to pay the tax they should. But the tax gap
:21:08. > :21:13.is the difference between what HMRC takes in and what it should take in.
:21:14. > :21:19.It has barely moved in five years, so where is the progress? He have
:21:20. > :21:23.brought in 150 billion more where we have cracked down on those tax
:21:24. > :21:33.schemes. The gap is still the same as it was five years ago. It's gone
:21:34. > :21:35.from 6.8, 26.5. It has gone down. The Prime Minister and the
:21:36. > :21:40.Chancellor said they want to continue work on to get more money
:21:41. > :21:46.on these companies while still having a competitive rate to
:21:47. > :21:51.encourage these companies. While big business and the wealthy continue to
:21:52. > :21:54.prosper, the Office for Budget Responsibility tell us those on
:21:55. > :22:00.average earnings in this country will be earning less in real terms
:22:01. > :22:06.by 2021 than they did in 2008. How can that be fair? I don't see it
:22:07. > :22:10.that way. I haven't seen the figures you have got. What I can say to you,
:22:11. > :22:16.Andrew, we have made sure the minimum wage has gone up, the actual
:22:17. > :22:25.income tax people pay has gone down. So in their pocket, real terms,
:22:26. > :22:27.people have more money. You are the self-styled party of work. We keep
:22:28. > :22:31.emphasising work. Under your government you can work for 13 years
:22:32. > :22:38.and still not earn any more at the end of it, and you did at the start.
:22:39. > :22:43.Where is the reward for effort in that? I have not seen those figures.
:22:44. > :22:49.There are 2.8 million more people, more jobs in economy than there was.
:22:50. > :22:53.1000 jobs every day and people are working and developing through their
:22:54. > :22:57.careers. This is what I thought was odd in what Rebecca was saying,
:22:58. > :23:02.investing in people is what the apprenticeship levy is about,
:23:03. > :23:07.companies are investing their works force to take more opportunities
:23:08. > :23:10.that there. We are talking about fairness, politicians talk about
:23:11. > :23:15.hard-working people and we know the average earnings are no higher than
:23:16. > :23:20.they were in 2008. We know the pay and bonuses of senior executives
:23:21. > :23:23.have continued to grow and the Institute for Fiscal Studies has
:23:24. > :23:29.shown 3 million of the poorest households will lose an average of
:23:30. > :23:35.?2500 a year in the next Parliament, benefits frozen, further sanctions
:23:36. > :23:39.kick in. 3 million of the poorest losing 2500. Under the Tories, one
:23:40. > :23:45.law for the rich and another for the poor. It is quite wrong. First of
:23:46. > :23:50.all, we have got to be fair to the taxpayer who is funding the welfare
:23:51. > :23:56.and benefit system. Which is why the welfare was right. Get more people
:23:57. > :24:03.in work and then it is important to get more people upscaling. As that
:24:04. > :24:08.allowance rises, people have more of the money they earn in their pocket
:24:09. > :24:14.to be able to use in the economy. People will be worse off. 2500,
:24:15. > :24:20.among the poorest already. They will have more money in their pocket as
:24:21. > :24:26.we increase the allowance before people pay tax. We have seen
:24:27. > :24:30.millions of people coming out of tax altogether. The reason I ask these
:24:31. > :24:35.questions, you and the Prime Minister go on and on about the just
:24:36. > :24:39.about managing classes. I am talking about the just about managing and
:24:40. > :24:43.below that. It is all talk, you haven't done anything for them. We
:24:44. > :24:48.have made sure they have an increasing minimum wage, it has gone
:24:49. > :24:54.up more under us than any other previous government. Their wages
:24:55. > :24:59.will be still lower in real terms. Let me come on to this plan for
:25:00. > :25:04.housing. We have announced a new plan to increase affordable housing,
:25:05. > :25:08.social housing, some council housing and social housing built by the
:25:09. > :25:12.associations. How much money is behind this? It is part of the 1.4
:25:13. > :25:20.billion announced in the Autumn Statement. How many homes will you
:25:21. > :25:23.get for 1.4 billion? That depends on the negotiations with local
:25:24. > :25:30.authorities. It is local authorities, who know the area best.
:25:31. > :25:34.I will not put a number on that. 1.4 billion, if you price the house at
:25:35. > :25:40.100,000, which is very low, particularly for the South, back at
:25:41. > :25:45.you 14,000 new homes. That is it. What we have seen before, how the
:25:46. > :25:49.local government can leveraged to build thousands more homes. That is
:25:50. > :25:53.what we want to see across the country. It is not just about the
:25:54. > :25:56.money, for a lot of local authorities it is about the
:25:57. > :26:02.expertise and knowledge on how to do this. That is why support from the
:26:03. > :26:08.housing communities minister will help. What is the timescale, how
:26:09. > :26:13.many more affordable homes will be built? I will not put a number on
:26:14. > :26:18.it. You announced it today, so you cannot tell me how many more or what
:26:19. > :26:22.the target is? It is a matter of working with the local authorities
:26:23. > :26:25.who know what their local needs are, what land they have got available.
:26:26. > :26:30.What we saw through the local elections with the Metro mayors,
:26:31. > :26:33.they want to deliver in their areas, whether it is the West of England,
:26:34. > :26:38.the north-east, Liverpool, Manchester and we want to work with
:26:39. > :26:42.them. You have said variations of this for the past seven years and I
:26:43. > :26:48.want some credibility. When you cannot tell us how much money, what
:26:49. > :26:51.the target and timescale is, and this government, under which
:26:52. > :26:57.affordable house building has fallen to a 24 year low. 1.2 million
:26:58. > :27:03.families are on waiting lists for social housing to rent. That is your
:27:04. > :27:07.record. Why should we believe a word you say? This is different to what
:27:08. > :27:12.we have been doing over the last two years. We want to develop and have a
:27:13. > :27:19.strong and stable economy that can sustain that 1.4 billion homes. This
:27:20. > :27:25.is important. In 2010, we inherited the lowest level of house building,
:27:26. > :27:30.75,000 new homes. That is about 189,000 over the last four years.
:27:31. > :27:34.That is a big step forward after the crash, getting people back into the
:27:35. > :27:45.industry. More first-time buyers onto the market. Final question, in
:27:46. > :27:50.2010, 2011, your first year in government, there were 60,000
:27:51. > :27:58.affordable homes built. May not be enough, but last day it was 30 2000.
:27:59. > :28:05.So why should we trust anything you say about this? On housing, we have
:28:06. > :28:11.delivered. We have delivered more social housing. Double what Labour
:28:12. > :28:15.did in 13 years, in just five years. This is what this policy is about,
:28:16. > :28:16.working with local authorities to deliver more homes to people in
:28:17. > :28:20.their local areas. Thank you. Now, they have a deficit
:28:21. > :28:23.of between 15 and 20% in the polls, but Jeremy Corbyn and those
:28:24. > :28:26.around him insist Labour can win. If the polls are right they've got
:28:27. > :28:29.three and half weeks to change voters' minds and persuade those
:28:30. > :28:31.fabled undecided voters We enlisted the polling organisation
:28:32. > :28:36.YouGov to help us find out how the performance of party leaders
:28:37. > :28:38.will affect behaviour Leeds, a city of three quarters
:28:39. > :28:48.of a million people, eight Parliamentary seats and home
:28:49. > :28:52.to our very own focus group. Our panel was recruited
:28:53. > :28:55.from a variety of backgrounds and the majority say they haven't
:28:56. > :28:59.decided who to vote for yet. Watching behind the glass,
:29:00. > :29:01.two experts on different sides Giles Cunningham, who headed up
:29:02. > :29:08.political press at Downing Street under David Cameron
:29:09. > :29:15.and Aaron Bastani, Corbin supporter, under David Cameron
:29:16. > :29:17.and Aaron Bastani, Corbyn supporter, I think Theresa May sees herself
:29:18. > :29:21.as a pound shop Thatcher. Milliband's policies but when it
:29:22. > :29:41.came about who you want,
:29:42. > :29:45.if you wake up on maybe a 2015, We found in a couple of focus
:29:46. > :29:49.groups, people saying we'd be quite relieved,
:29:50. > :29:51.even though some of those same people have been saying we quite
:29:52. > :29:53.like the Labour policies. I think the fact that Corbyn's
:29:54. > :29:58.going so hard on his values, this is a really progressive
:29:59. > :30:00.manifesto, they live But I think that's a new challenge,
:30:01. > :30:04.that wasn't there in 2015. Is there anyone here that
:30:05. > :30:06.you don't recognise? After a little warm up,
:30:07. > :30:08.the first exercise, recognising I think it's nice to have a strong
:30:09. > :30:15.woman in politics, I do. But I've got to say,
:30:16. > :30:17.when she comes on the news, I kind of do think,
:30:18. > :30:20.here we go again. Tell me about Tim Farron, what
:30:21. > :30:22.are your impressions of Tim Farron? It isn't going to do anything,
:30:23. > :30:27.it isn't going to change anything. You'll be surprised to hear it's
:30:28. > :30:35.actually the Greens. Strong and stable leadership
:30:36. > :30:48.in the national interest. Yes, Team May, it's
:30:49. > :30:53.the British equivalent of make What do we think about this one
:30:54. > :31:03.for the many and not the few? It's not quite as bad
:31:04. > :31:05.as strong and stable, but it will probably get
:31:06. > :31:07.on our nerves after a while. We must seize that chance today
:31:08. > :31:18.and every day until June the 8th. But that's not quite my
:31:19. > :31:26.question, my question is, if you are Prime Minister,
:31:27. > :31:28.we will leave, come hell or high water, whatever is on the table
:31:29. > :31:32.at the end of the negotiations? If we win the election,
:31:33. > :31:34.we'll get a good deal with Europe. Assertive and in control
:31:35. > :31:36.and he felt comfortable But the second one, I thought
:31:37. > :31:41.he was very hesitant. I thought he was kind of,
:31:42. > :31:50.hovering around, skirting around and that's the second
:31:51. > :31:53.time I've seen a similar interview with the question
:31:54. > :31:55.being asked regarding Brexit. I don't think I'd have
:31:56. > :31:57.any confidence with him You think you are going up
:31:58. > :32:01.against some quite strong people, how are you going to stand
:32:02. > :32:03.up for us? When you are in negotiations,
:32:04. > :32:07.you need to be tough. And actually is right
:32:08. > :32:09.to be tough sometimes, particularly when you are doing
:32:10. > :32:12.something for the country. There's a reason for talking
:32:13. > :32:14.about strong and stable leadership. It's about the future
:32:15. > :32:16.of the country, it's It's just that people kind of listen
:32:17. > :32:21.to that kind of thing and think Both on The One Show
:32:22. > :32:26.and in the news. She attracts the public better
:32:27. > :32:32.than what Corbyn does. She didn't answer the question
:32:33. > :32:35.in a more articular way than Corbyn Imagine that Theresa
:32:36. > :32:41.May is an animal. So, in your minds,
:32:42. > :32:44.what animal is coming to mind I've done a Pekinese because I think
:32:45. > :32:59.she's all bark and no bite. Alpaca because she's
:33:00. > :33:05.superior looking and woolly I don't think his policies
:33:06. > :33:20.are for the modern, real world. A mouse because they are weak
:33:21. > :33:24.and they can be easily bullied, but also they can catch
:33:25. > :33:26.you by surprise if you're What do you take away
:33:27. > :33:34.from what you saw then, and what message would you send back
:33:35. > :33:37.to the Tories now? I think what came over is people see
:33:38. > :33:40.Theresa May as a strong politician, not everyone likes her,
:33:41. > :33:42.but you don't need to be liked to be elected,
:33:43. > :33:45.because ultimately it's about who do you trust with your future
:33:46. > :33:47.and your security. I think what I also take out
:33:48. > :33:50.of that focus group, was it was a group of floating
:33:51. > :33:53.voters, there was no huge appetite for the Lib Dems and there was no
:33:54. > :33:56.huge appetite for Ukip. So my messaged back to CCHQ
:33:57. > :33:58.would be stick to the plan. I thought the response
:33:59. > :34:02.to the manifesto was excellent. It's clear that people aren't
:34:03. > :34:04.particularly keen on Theresa May, There are some associations with her
:34:05. > :34:09.about strength and stability, which is exactly what the Tory party
:34:10. > :34:12.want of course, but they are not positive and nobody thinks
:34:13. > :34:15.that she has a vision So, what I'd say the Jeremy Corbyn,
:34:16. > :34:21.what I'd say to the Labour Party is, they need to really emphasise
:34:22. > :34:23.the manifesto in Jeremy Corbyn himself has to perform
:34:24. > :34:29.out of his skin and I think he has to reemphasise those
:34:30. > :34:32.characteristics which may be have come to the fore may be
:34:33. > :34:34.over the last 12 months, resilience, strength and the fact
:34:35. > :34:37.that he's come this far, why not take that final step and go
:34:38. > :34:39.into ten Downing Street? We're joined now by the American
:34:40. > :34:47.political consultant For the sake of this discussion,
:34:48. > :34:54.assume the polls at the moment are broadly right, is there any hope for
:34:55. > :35:00.Mr Corbyn in the undecided voters? Know, and this is a very serious
:35:01. > :35:03.collection with serious consequences to who wins. Nobody cares whether
:35:04. > :35:08.you can draw and what animal they represent, they want to know where
:35:09. > :35:12.they stand, and I felt that was frivolous. I come to Britain to
:35:13. > :35:17.watch elections because I learned from here. Your elections are more
:35:18. > :35:21.substantial, more serious, more policy and less about personality
:35:22. > :35:26.and that peace was only about personality. That's partly because
:35:27. > :35:36.Mrs May has decided to make this a presidential election. You can see
:35:37. > :35:43.on the posters it is all Team May. I agree with that, and in her language
:35:44. > :35:47.she says not everyone benefits from a Conservative government, I don't
:35:48. > :35:52.see how using anything Republicans have used in the past. In fact her
:35:53. > :35:57.campaign is more of a centrist Democrats but it is a smart strategy
:35:58. > :36:02.because it pushes Corbyn further to the left. Of course you said Hillary
:36:03. > :36:07.Clinton have won. On election night the polling was so bad in America,
:36:08. > :36:13.the exit polls that were done, the BBC told America she had won. No, I
:36:14. > :36:21.was anchoring the programme that night, I ignored your tweet. The BBC
:36:22. > :36:25.had the same numbers. Yes, but we did not say she had won, I can
:36:26. > :36:31.assure you of that. Because of people like you we thought she had
:36:32. > :36:38.but we didn't broadcast it. That was a smart approach. My point is other
:36:39. > :36:43.than teasing you, maybe there is hope for Jeremy Corbyn. I think you
:36:44. > :36:48.will have one of the lowest turnout in modern history and I think Labour
:36:49. > :36:52.will fall to one of the lowest percentages, not percentage of
:36:53. > :36:56.number of seats they have had, and this will be a matter of
:36:57. > :37:01.soul-searching for both political parties. What you do with a sizeable
:37:02. > :37:04.majority, and she has a responsibility to tell the British
:37:05. > :37:10.people exactly what happens as she moves forward. He and Labour will
:37:11. > :37:15.have to take a look at whether they still represent a significant slice
:37:16. > :37:20.of the British population. Do you see a realignment in British
:37:21. > :37:24.politics taking place? I see a crumbling of the left and yet there
:37:25. > :37:28.is still a significant percentage of the British population that once
:37:29. > :37:37.someone who is centre-left. And they like a lot of Mr Corbyn's policies.
:37:38. > :37:40.I'm listening to Michael foot. I went to school here in the 1980s and
:37:41. > :37:43.I feel like I'm watching the Labour Party of 35 years ago, in a
:37:44. > :37:49.population that wants to focus on the future, not the past. Thank you.
:37:50. > :37:51.It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:37:52. > :37:54.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:37:55. > :38:05.Welcome to Sunday Politics South, my name's Peter Henley.
:38:06. > :38:08.This is the first of our election hustings.
:38:09. > :38:10.We're in Harwell in Oxfordshire with a group of voters
:38:11. > :38:13.who are going to be grilling our three local politicians
:38:14. > :38:17.on why their party should get their vote.
:38:18. > :38:20.Laura Coyle is from the Liberal Democrats,
:38:21. > :38:21.Nicola Blackwood is from the Conservatives,
:38:22. > :38:28.Before we let our inquisitors loose on them, though,
:38:29. > :38:30.as this has been the first proper week of campaigning
:38:31. > :38:33.Frankie Peck has been taking a look
:38:34. > :38:37.at what's been going on out on the campaign trail.
:38:38. > :38:43.The constituents of Southampton Test
:38:44. > :38:45.wait for years for a party leader,
:38:46. > :38:48.and two come along in the same month.
:38:49. > :38:51.This week, Theresa May popped up in the Conservative target seat,
:38:52. > :38:58.and mostly spoke to loyal Conservative voters,
:38:59. > :39:03.but she said it wasn't a day to speak to local media.
:39:04. > :39:05.One resident filmed Theresa May knocking on his door,
:39:06. > :39:08.but then posted on Twitter saying he was too scared to answer it.
:39:09. > :39:11.# We're just trying to be friendly... #
:39:12. > :39:14.Earlier this month, Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn
:39:15. > :39:17.ventured into a different part of the constituency,
:39:18. > :39:22.talking to locals about cuts to benefits and bus routes.
:39:23. > :39:25.So, I expect to see bus stops, a bigger car park...
:39:26. > :39:27.I spend a lot of time listening to people.
:39:28. > :39:29.It's what I've been doing all my life.
:39:30. > :39:34.Listening was something Liberal Democrat Leader
:39:35. > :39:38.Tim Farron had to do a lot of on a recent trip to Kidlington.
:39:39. > :39:43.The NHS in particular is a major priority for us...
:39:44. > :39:47.Over on the Isle of Wight, co-leader of the Green Party Caroline Lucas
:39:48. > :39:50.used the carefully chosen backdrop of Saint Mary's Hospital,
:39:51. > :39:53.part of the troubled health trust on the island,
:39:54. > :39:54.for the announcement of the Green Party's
:39:55. > :40:00.All of the parties have now nominated
:40:01. > :40:15.pounding the streets, knocking on doors and bending your ears.
:40:16. > :40:21.You may also have noticed this week I have been on my bicycle around the
:40:22. > :40:24.South of England talking to voters. Do you know, three politicians, one
:40:25. > :40:29.of the things a lot of people talked about was this was a contest between
:40:30. > :40:35.Theresa May and labour. They didn't say and Jeremy Corbyn. It does seem
:40:36. > :40:38.to be that it is the Labour Party that people might fought for rather
:40:39. > :40:42.than Jeremy Corbyn when they say that. I do not think it matters if
:40:43. > :40:46.you vote for the Labour Party and the broad church that we represent
:40:47. > :40:50.or you vote for your local candidate working incredibly hard for you when
:40:51. > :40:53.you live. I do not think it really matters, I just think we need to get
:40:54. > :40:56.across the clear message that only Labour are going to get the
:40:57. > :41:02.conservative out this election and we need to come out and we need you
:41:03. > :41:05.to vote. But do people say Jeremy Corbyn, Prime Minister, really? I
:41:06. > :41:09.think you always have that. People don't always identify with different
:41:10. > :41:12.personalities but Jeremy Corbyn is consistent, strong, has been
:41:13. > :41:16.supportive to me in my local area and I think that actually it is
:41:17. > :41:20.about the manifesto, which I feel so positively about. We have got so
:41:21. > :41:23.much to talk about. It is pushing Labour into a whole new aspirational
:41:24. > :41:28.space and I just want people to read it, get behind it and see the
:41:29. > :41:31.country could be. People do not talk about Conservatives. It is all
:41:32. > :41:36.Theresa May on the bus. It is pushing her. Is that the whole
:41:37. > :41:40.point? It absolutely does matter who you are leaders, especially at a
:41:41. > :41:43.moment like this when we face a challenging national time when we
:41:44. > :41:46.are going to have to go into Brexit negotiations and get the right deal
:41:47. > :42:04.for the country so we have a stable economy which can
:42:05. > :42:08.fund our public services, which matters so much to everyone in this
:42:09. > :42:11.room and country. I am sorry, but I think that Theresa May is the right
:42:12. > :42:13.person to do this and Jeremy Corbyn would be terrifying going into those
:42:14. > :42:15.negotiations of the person responsible for our national
:42:16. > :42:18.security. It matters to your leader is and what is that manifesto. The
:42:19. > :42:20.Labour manifesto is a list of spending commitments about the way
:42:21. > :42:23.to fund them. If we actually look at the way in which they would be
:42:24. > :42:26.funded, it would be sky high debt, sky-high taxes and we cannot afford
:42:27. > :42:29.to have that in this country if we want to have a stable economy. Well,
:42:30. > :42:31.we will hear moment about what our voters think about that idea. They
:42:32. > :42:36.did not the Liberal Democrat very much when I speak to them. It is all
:42:37. > :42:38.about Labour or Theresa May. Well, I think there has always been a
:42:39. > :42:41.struggle to get the Liberal Democrat message across. I have to say that I
:42:42. > :42:45.think that in this campaign in particular, because of the focus on
:42:46. > :42:50.Theresa May by the Torah party and the focus on Jeremy Corbyn by the
:42:51. > :42:54.media in fact as well in terms of his ability to lead, our messages to
:42:55. > :42:57.struggle to be sometimes. But I think that tells you something about
:42:58. > :43:02.a party of law, because we have a very strong leader in Tim Farron. We
:43:03. > :43:07.have an open, honest leader with a great deal of integrity, a very
:43:08. > :43:10.normal leader who I think people do identify with when they meet him and
:43:11. > :43:19.speak with him. But it is about the party. And about our messages. Not
:43:20. > :43:23.all about the letter. Good. That's a good idea of the character. We got a
:43:24. > :43:30.proper choice this time. We have always grumbled before! Deidre,
:43:31. > :43:34.you're fought in the NHS or a long time. The NHS and social services.
:43:35. > :43:37.What do you think about the state of things at the moment and what would
:43:38. > :43:42.you like them to say to you to win your vote? I think a lot has been
:43:43. > :43:47.done to try to help the crisis, far more older people with chronic
:43:48. > :43:50.conditions, but in the old days we talked about a Berlin Wall between
:43:51. > :43:54.Health and Social Care Act. The funding is separate social services
:43:55. > :43:58.have got much less funding for an increased population. As the whole
:43:59. > :44:04.emphasis now should be on here at home and prevention, the services
:44:05. > :44:07.are not actually there. Not a joined up. The format I want to ask whether
:44:08. > :44:11.there can be politicians getting together to work at a strategic plan
:44:12. > :44:14.for the funding for both so that there are not these terrific
:44:15. > :44:18.divisions of people not being in the right place. This happened in the
:44:19. > :44:23.1960s and is still happening. People in hospital should be out and people
:44:24. > :44:27.I would should be in hospital. Since the 1960s, Nicola, why are things
:44:28. > :44:31.not changing? I am not only in history and health but my father is
:44:32. > :44:42.a doctor. He was watching in the NHS as far back as the 1960s. My mother
:44:43. > :44:44.is a nurse and I am a it is of the NHS. I have a chronic condition. A
:44:45. > :44:48.lot of time as a sort of mystery shoppers will know exactly what it
:44:49. > :44:50.is like to be on the inside but this issue is about being able to
:44:51. > :44:52.integrate better not only prevention services but public services and
:44:53. > :44:57.recognised. We have increased recognised. We have increased
:44:58. > :44:59.funding to the NHS. Oh, come on! At the Oxford University observers, the
:45:00. > :45:17.funding went up by 7% last year, 2% this year. Demand is
:45:18. > :45:19.rising. Nobody is thing it is not difficult on the front line. Social
:45:20. > :45:21.services, the funding also increased. An extra 2 billion went
:45:22. > :45:24.in on top of the increase in benefits. Deidre, would you like to
:45:25. > :45:27.pay more in tax to fund this? About the point about integration, because
:45:28. > :45:29.this is the question that she asked, the fact is that if the funding
:45:30. > :45:32.increases in the images and increases in social good, it does
:45:33. > :45:33.not solve the problem of needing to get the flow of patients going
:45:34. > :45:35.through the system more effectively through the system more effectively
:45:36. > :45:38.and that is exactly what the sustainability and transformation
:45:39. > :45:41.plans are designed to do, solve that problem. We are just at the
:45:42. > :45:46.beginning of that process now and we need a Conservative government to
:45:47. > :45:47.make sure we can do that. The funding is still separate and
:45:48. > :45:52.I think, is the major problem. The I think, is the major problem. The
:45:53. > :45:55.hospital is paying to get people out of hospital and they are going all
:45:56. > :45:59.around the county, when it should be more local. The hospital should not
:46:00. > :46:03.have to be doing this. Carroll, behind, you're also concerned about
:46:04. > :46:07.the NHS. What do you think about the answer you heard from Nicola? I
:46:08. > :46:10.think you have got a point that sustainable transformation plans are
:46:11. > :46:16.an aspiration. I think a lot of the things that have been written into
:46:17. > :46:21.pages, I think it is a 78 pages, of pages, I think it is a 78 pages, of
:46:22. > :46:27.the Berkshire, Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire, commonly known as
:46:28. > :46:32.Bob. But my comment at the end of that was that however good the
:46:33. > :46:35.aspirations are, unless you put money into training more staff,
:46:36. > :46:38.particularly staff who are specialists in what they are doing,
:46:39. > :46:44.then it is not worth the paper it is written on and I just wonder what
:46:45. > :46:48.you're going to do about making sure that we actually start the NHS
:46:49. > :46:51.appalling to read that some appalling to read that some
:46:52. > :46:57.hospitals are now putting yourself on 12 hour shifts. That is a patient
:46:58. > :47:02.safety issue. Let's take Laura first of all on that point and then come
:47:03. > :47:05.to you, Laetisia. The two main point we have been talking about,
:47:06. > :47:09.integration and funding, as far as integration is concerned, Norman
:47:10. > :47:15.Lamb, the Lib Dem houses both -- Hill sportsperson, has been working
:47:16. > :47:18.to try to get cross-party on this. We cannot keep having the NHS of a
:47:19. > :47:23.political football. We have got to try to work together to get a
:47:24. > :47:28.solution for this precious resource our country has. Laetisia. The
:47:29. > :47:31.greatest achievement of the Labour Party, the NHS. I also worked there
:47:32. > :47:36.for eight years and also cherish our servers. Only Labour will invest in
:47:37. > :47:45.the NHS... Nicholas as they are investing. In real terms, there has
:47:46. > :47:50.been... A 7% increase... We need 6 billion investment, which is what
:47:51. > :47:55.Labour has pledged. There are costed plans to fund it, Nicola, you know
:47:56. > :47:59.there are. It is a non-costed manifesto. Let's let Deidre come
:48:00. > :48:04.back in. And I finish my point, Peter? It is not just about funding,
:48:05. > :48:10.at the moment the money comes from different places. I absolutely
:48:11. > :48:13.agree. It has got to be joined up, then I've got to be changed. Social
:48:14. > :48:17.care funding has gone to the council at exactly the same point as they
:48:18. > :48:19.have cut defence budgets, which has meant that the most vulnerable
:48:20. > :48:26.people has been on the end of these cuts. We all know it, we all know
:48:27. > :48:32.that our NHS is in absolute crisis. What is experience, John? I am
:48:33. > :48:36.concerned about the sustainability and transformation plans. Nicola has
:48:37. > :48:39.said that they seem to be the great white wall but unfortunately, what
:48:40. > :48:45.is going to happen is that the earlier to save 22 billion pounds
:48:46. > :48:50.from the NHS, and in Oxfordshire, we have a local plan that supposedly is
:48:51. > :48:55.no danger from hospital, as Deidre is asking for, to the community, but
:48:56. > :49:02.without sufficient GPs who are going to have to take this up, without
:49:03. > :49:05.care staff, without nurses. We do not have the facilities. At the
:49:06. > :49:10.back, are you concerned about the NHS and the way it is being run?
:49:11. > :49:14.Yes, I definitely do think so. I have been in hospital a couple of
:49:15. > :49:21.times recently and there is not enough staff. Minor operations are
:49:22. > :49:25.always cancelled. GP appointments cancelled regularly to fit other
:49:26. > :49:31.people in. There is just not enough provision there. People are unhappy
:49:32. > :49:36.at the moment. Since 2010, in Oxford university hospitals, there are 300
:49:37. > :49:39.more doctors and 700 more nurses but the pressure on the service is
:49:40. > :49:43.significant because the demand is increasing at a faster rate than we
:49:44. > :49:49.have managed... THEY TALK OVER EACH OTHER it is not
:49:50. > :49:53.simply a matter of money. It is also a matter of making sure that the
:49:54. > :49:57.increase prevention so that people do not get sick as much, so that
:49:58. > :50:01.there is not so much demand and some of the best of services that we have
:50:02. > :50:06.are those that keep people out of hospital and the first place, such
:50:07. > :50:08.as those working at a community hospital. The Conservatives cannot
:50:09. > :50:12.congratulate themselves on staff recruitment. We have 700 vacancies
:50:13. > :50:16.at the John Ratliff Hospital in Oxford at the moment. We are having
:50:17. > :50:26.the port in services cut back and people are being sent to John Atlas,
:50:27. > :50:30.and the staff cannot cope. I have had messages and e-mails to me from
:50:31. > :50:33.the staff at the John Radcliffe Hospital then they cannot cope. They
:50:34. > :50:34.are at crisis point and are worried about patient safety and the
:50:35. > :50:36.Conservative Government and the Conservative councillors and MPs
:50:37. > :50:38.locally are not... This is Oxfordshire. Other parts of the
:50:39. > :50:42.South of England, the cities, are struggling even more. Has been a lot
:50:43. > :50:45.of talk about funding and the need for funding and being clear about
:50:46. > :50:50.where it will come from. We have a pledge, the Lib Dems, to find that 6
:50:51. > :50:59.billion per year from putting 1p on the pound... As they made Labour? We
:51:00. > :51:01.will take from income tax. 2 billion for social care and 4 billion for
:51:02. > :51:04.the NHS health care. Most people in the British country are perfectly
:51:05. > :51:09.prepared to be that extra 1p on income tax because they want to see
:51:10. > :51:13.these servers is continuing. Linda, you have run a campaign trying to
:51:14. > :51:17.save a surgery. Do you think it is just the money and they won't be on
:51:18. > :51:21.income tax is an easy thing? Yes, I think that is what we need but I
:51:22. > :51:26.think the rich and the bankers need to pay their taxes, and I think then
:51:27. > :51:30.we will get our hospitals put up to date, we. The nurses going to food
:51:31. > :51:35.banks, we will get our GPs service is up and running. Whitney is
:51:36. > :51:39.absolutely fit to bursting. We have not got enough GP services. They are
:51:40. > :51:46.struggling. We have to wait eight weeks to get a general appointment,
:51:47. > :51:52.and there is 1000 people still on the Deer Park side that have not got
:51:53. > :51:57.a doctor. They are coping on their own. People are going to the John
:51:58. > :52:00.Radcliffe and the doctors are seeing people up there that I really,
:52:01. > :52:04.really ill because they cannot get a doctors appointment or they have not
:52:05. > :52:09.got a doctor. Sarah, can by bring you in? Our NHS is still the pride
:52:10. > :52:13.of the country, is it not, and the research that is done in it as well?
:52:14. > :52:16.You're interested in fires particularly. Do you think that
:52:17. > :52:20.people are feeling worse about the NHS than they used to or better? It
:52:21. > :52:24.is interesting. We talk about staffing and I personally believe
:52:25. > :52:26.that given in all areas of Science and Technology Committee of care
:52:27. > :52:29.when intended to be underrepresented, and I have got a
:52:30. > :52:36.recent story about this. My friend has got to my children under three.
:52:37. > :52:39.She wanted to have a part-time working arrangement job share to
:52:40. > :52:41.make it fit. Her local hospital said no so she is moving to suffer
:52:42. > :52:46.because of that. That really concerns me, because I think there
:52:47. > :52:50.is a solution. More women working part-time. There is a lot of talent
:52:51. > :52:55.there. There is a lot of going around Sarah's point. Richard, you
:52:56. > :52:59.have had one good idea. You run the bus services, the volunteer bus
:53:00. > :53:03.service. You have been helping people get the flu jab. It has been
:53:04. > :53:07.running for a year and is a community led, volunteer - run
:53:08. > :53:12.servers. It is filling the gaps in the NHS and social care, but now we
:53:13. > :53:17.are looking to help other communities set up their own
:53:18. > :53:21.operations. How are you going to help us do this? And they both cuts
:53:22. > :53:25.is something that has troubled a lot of people. You see, as we are a
:53:26. > :53:30.thing, it is not just more money for the NHS, it is getting people into
:53:31. > :53:35.those surgeries as well. Neil? My issue is that people are depressed.
:53:36. > :53:39.We have heard about the NHS for the last five or ten minutes. If you
:53:40. > :53:43.drive, you have got portals to contend with. If you do not drive,
:53:44. > :53:47.there are not only boss of any more because the subsidy has been taken
:53:48. > :53:51.away and, in our area, we have lost some key services. How are you going
:53:52. > :53:58.to reverse that and get a feel good feeling back into a time of great
:53:59. > :54:01.uncertainty? You are looking at some of the local government cuts under
:54:02. > :54:03.the organisation, do you think that this government is actually putting
:54:04. > :54:07.money where it is needed? I think that there is a pretty big
:54:08. > :54:12.disconnect between the government policy and assessing what the local
:54:13. > :54:18.electorate and President actually want. For example, with the issue of
:54:19. > :54:23.the unitary authorities at the local level, this restructuring of local
:54:24. > :54:25.government, there is not only controversy but contradiction in the
:54:26. > :54:30.different sides that are being presented. I see no reason why the
:54:31. > :54:34.intelligence of the local residents should not be measured by something
:54:35. > :54:38.like a referendum. We have been asked to vote on virtually
:54:39. > :54:45.everything else, I think by the time of... Patrick is building a phase!
:54:46. > :54:48.You are a first importer, aren't you? Sam Ricketts, I turned 18 last
:54:49. > :54:51.week. I think the NHS is such an important part of Britain and I do
:54:52. > :54:53.not think, to be honest, Theresa May is the right person to take us
:54:54. > :54:57.forward with that. Political opinion. What about fresh thinking
:54:58. > :55:01.in the government generally. Is it the same old you are hearing from
:55:02. > :55:05.the politicians? You wanted your something new as a younger person?
:55:06. > :55:08.Watching this debate, we are hearing the same rhetoric being repeated
:55:09. > :55:11.that has been going on for years and I think we need somebody fresh even
:55:12. > :55:17.take the NHS forward. But referendums cost so much money. That
:55:18. > :55:21.is what the shake of the head was for! Fresh thinking, Laetisia, are
:55:22. > :55:25.going to get that? We have plenty of fresh thinking. We can all agree
:55:26. > :55:31.here, from this debate, it is not working as it is. We need to invest
:55:32. > :55:36.in our social care, in our NHS, in business. We need to spend the 250
:55:37. > :55:37.billion over ten years that Labour has pledged. We
:55:38. > :55:42.system. We need digital system. We need digital
:55:43. > :55:46.infrastructure to be invested in. We need energy to be invested in, our
:55:47. > :55:51.roads, are transported to be integrated and invested in. We are
:55:52. > :55:55.not up to standard and need to be. The complacent conservative voters
:55:56. > :55:58.that are not enjoying having their GPs surgeries closed and not being
:55:59. > :56:03.able to access their children's centres and hospitals, and seeing
:56:04. > :56:07.domestic violence refuges being shut and feeling disgusted by it, get out
:56:08. > :56:12.and vote Labour. It is the only party that will get the
:56:13. > :56:15.Conservatives out. Complacent Conservatives, that is something
:56:16. > :56:19.which I have heard people speaking. The idea that this election was
:56:20. > :56:22.called just so that Theresa May could have a mandate, so that she
:56:23. > :56:27.could go to Europe and negotiate, and yet there are other problems, as
:56:28. > :56:31.we gear from the audience. Of course there are social challenges up and
:56:32. > :56:33.down this country which we be strong, responsible, experienced
:56:34. > :56:41.government that we can rely on, he will be able to address those
:56:42. > :56:47.challenges. We are never going to be able to address them if we do not a
:56:48. > :56:50.stable economy. You have had seven years to do it. That brings any
:56:51. > :56:53.those public services. I am afraid those public services. I am afraid
:56:54. > :56:56.that I do not see any fresh thinking in a manifesto that was back to the
:56:57. > :57:00.1970s, which was what we have just seen from 90 and 70s. It is a
:57:01. > :57:05.21st-century manifesto! You are criticising what I am saying. You
:57:06. > :57:08.will not let me speak, which is one of the most old-fashioned things
:57:09. > :57:13.from politicians. We have heard, you are just repeating the rhetoric. We
:57:14. > :57:18.want to hear from Nicola. What I do agree with is that what we do need
:57:19. > :57:21.to have its policies which will provide the training to meet
:57:22. > :57:25.21st-century economy, an automated economy with the digital training
:57:26. > :57:30.and skills. We do need more women in science. We need investment in a
:57:31. > :57:33.able to fund our NHS and social able to fund our NHS and social
:57:34. > :57:38.services in an integrated way. This is exactly what waters are calling
:57:39. > :57:44.for and is what Conservatives have been committed... We can judge those
:57:45. > :57:48.promises. Laura? I think it is just incredibly telling that both of the
:57:49. > :57:51.previous speakers have managed to say so much without mentioning the
:57:52. > :57:57.word Europe, and without mentioning the challenges that we are facing!
:57:58. > :58:02.That is what the Lib Dems voted for. That is what the Lib Dems voted for.
:58:03. > :58:04.They are getting is a different thing. You're not going to let
:58:05. > :58:08.anybody speak, are you, what I do anybody speak, are you, what I do
:58:09. > :58:11.think is quoted as respectful. What the Lib Dems are saying is that we
:58:12. > :58:15.need to stay in the single market. We needed to stay on a customs union
:58:16. > :58:19.in order to protect our business and protect public services. Even those
:58:20. > :58:22.who wanted us to leave the European Union are saying that we are going
:58:23. > :58:34.time for many years to come. We have time for many years to come. We have
:58:35. > :58:37.not got a long left. We had you on our debate of the EU referendum. You
:58:38. > :58:40.run a company online training. You were saying you're going to have to
:58:41. > :58:43.leave the country. You were so keen on the main! You have not left,
:58:44. > :58:45.you're still here. Listening to what we are hearing today, training is
:58:46. > :58:48.going to be quite important! There is a bigger demand than you thought.
:58:49. > :58:56.What about getting the stuff? When we meet the EU, are you going to be
:58:57. > :58:59.able to cope? I think my biggest concern is around diversity and the
:59:00. > :59:01.challenges on the planned cap on immigration. In order for us to find
:59:02. > :59:05.the best cyber security instructors, we need to have an inclusive policy
:59:06. > :59:10.of hiring the best talented minds in the world. If you do not have these
:59:11. > :59:15.folks, I do not know how businesses are going to provide security. What
:59:16. > :59:18.do you think about Brexit, is it a big issue or not? Brexit is a big
:59:19. > :59:22.issue but, at the moment, especially in my corner of the world, Oxford,
:59:23. > :59:25.there is lots of other things that are literally right in front of
:59:26. > :59:34.people everyday. Every single children's Centre have had their
:59:35. > :59:37.funding removed. The bus subsidy has been cut. People are ending up
:59:38. > :59:39.becoming... May be having somebody strong as the Prime Minister to do
:59:40. > :59:42.the vote imported? Definitely, having a leader that we all trust.
:59:43. > :59:45.But is seen as having the party. When we look at all of the bigger
:59:46. > :59:47.issues like diversity, and we mentioned training over you, what
:59:48. > :59:51.about retraining all of the old people we have got in the UK to do
:59:52. > :59:56.basic jobs, let alone the expertise? Is that going to happen with any of
:59:57. > :59:59.the parties? Just very quickly, because they are coming to the end,
:00:00. > :00:03.Tim Farron is not going to be prime minister, why as a Lib Dem both
:00:04. > :00:06.worthwhile? Because the more Lib Dems that we can get into
:00:07. > :00:11.parliament, the more we can hold to account whoever is in government and
:00:12. > :00:15.in particular to stop a hard Brexit and to stop more Tory cuts. If you
:00:16. > :00:19.give them a free rein and have a huge Tory majority, like she wants,
:00:20. > :00:25.that is what we will see. Cuts. Why Theresa May, without saying a strong
:00:26. > :00:28.and stable? The only way we are going to get a proper and effective
:00:29. > :00:35.Brexit negotiation that we need to have in order to give us a stable
:00:36. > :00:40.economy... You said it, I am sorry! Laetisia. OK, so, sorry if I was
:00:41. > :00:44.disrespectful, I am just incredibly passionate and want to get my views
:00:45. > :00:50.across. We are going to put income tax back-up to the label spending
:00:51. > :00:53.and levels of the rest of Europe spent. That is why we are going to
:00:54. > :00:54.generate the money to spend where we are seeing our social care and NHS
:00:55. > :00:58.cut. Thank you to Tories are saying. It is a very
:00:59. > :01:05.emotive subject and we have run out of time.
:01:06. > :01:10.On Thursday nominations closed in the 650 parliamentary
:01:11. > :01:12.seats across the country, so now we know exactly who's
:01:13. > :01:19.We've been analysing the parties' candidates to find out
:01:20. > :01:21.what they might tell us about the make-up of the House
:01:22. > :01:26.Well, we know Theresa May is committed to delivering Brexit and
:01:27. > :01:31.analysis of Conservative candidates has shown that
:01:32. > :01:34.in their top 100 target seats, 37 candidates supported leave
:01:35. > :01:42.during last year's referendum campaign
:01:43. > :01:44.and 20 supported remain; 43 have not made public
:01:45. > :01:50.In the last parliament, the vast majority of Labour MPs
:01:51. > :01:52.were hostile to Jeremy Corbyn so how supportive are Labour
:01:53. > :01:59.Well, of 50 of Labour's top 100 target seats
:02:00. > :02:01.17 candidates have expressed support for Mr Corbyn.
:02:02. > :02:06.20 candidates supported Owen Smith in last year's leadership contest
:02:07. > :02:10.or have expressed anti-Corbyn sentiment, and
:02:11. > :02:16.If they won those, the Labour benches would be
:02:17. > :02:18.marginally more sympathetic to Mr Corbyn than they are now.
:02:19. > :02:20.What do the figures tell us about where the other
:02:21. > :02:24.Well, the Lib Dems have decided not to stand against the Greens
:02:25. > :02:26.in Brighton Pavilion, and are fielding 629
:02:27. > :02:29.candidates this year - that's two fewer than 2015.
:02:30. > :02:33.The number of Ukip candidates has fallen dramatically.
:02:34. > :02:39.They are standing in 247 fewer constituencies than 2015,
:02:40. > :02:41.throwing their support behind solidly pro-Brexit Tories
:02:42. > :02:45.in some areas such as Lewes and Norfolk North.
:02:46. > :02:49.The Greens are fielding 103 fewer candidates
:02:50. > :03:00.than at the last election, standing down to help
:03:01. > :03:06.other progressive candidates in some places.
:03:07. > :03:19.The most liking statistic is the demise in Ukip candidates, is this
:03:20. > :03:25.their swansong? And I think so. It is remarkable how few Ukip
:03:26. > :03:29.candidates are standing. It is hard to see they will suddenly revive in
:03:30. > :03:38.the next couple of years. I think this is probably the end. Frank
:03:39. > :03:43.Luntz mentioned the fragmentation of the left was a feature of this
:03:44. > :03:46.election, but also there is the consolidation of the right, and if
:03:47. > :03:51.you take the things together that could explain why the polls are
:03:52. > :03:56.where they are. Absolutely, that's precisely what happened at the start
:03:57. > :04:01.of the 1980s, the right was incredibly united and that's when we
:04:02. > :04:08.started talking about majorities of over 100 or so. No matter what the
:04:09. > :04:12.size of Theresa May's majority, it will be the total collapse of Ukip,
:04:13. > :04:18.but not just because we are now leaving the EU and that was their
:04:19. > :04:22.only reason for being, but a whole lot of people voted for Ukip because
:04:23. > :04:30.they felt the Tories were no longer listening. Theresa May has given the
:04:31. > :04:33.impression that she is listening, and that is the biggest possible
:04:34. > :04:41.thing that could happen to the Tory vote. Fragmentation of the left,
:04:42. > :04:48.consolidation of the right? It's one of the lessons that is never learnt,
:04:49. > :04:52.it happened in the 1980s, it doesn't take much for the whole thing to
:04:53. > :04:58.fracture so now you have on the centre-left the SNP, the Labour
:04:59. > :05:03.Party, the Greens, the Liberal Democrats all competing for the same
:05:04. > :05:07.votes and when you have, fleetingly perhaps, large numbers coalescing on
:05:08. > :05:12.the right in one party, there is only going to be one outcome. It
:05:13. > :05:18.happens regularly. It doesn't mean the Tories haven't got their own
:05:19. > :05:22.fragility. Two years ago, David Cameron and George Osborne the
:05:23. > :05:26.dominant figures, neither are in Parliament now which is a symptom of
:05:27. > :05:32.the fragility this election is disguising. Mrs May's position in a
:05:33. > :05:37.way reminds me of Mrs Thatcher in the 1980s, I won't be outflanked on
:05:38. > :05:41.the right, Nicolas Sarkozy in France, I won't be outflanked on the
:05:42. > :05:44.right, so the National Front didn't get through either timed he ran to
:05:45. > :05:51.the second round on like this time, and now Mrs May on Brexit won't be
:05:52. > :05:55.outflanked Iver and as a result has seen off right flank. And also she
:05:56. > :05:58.is looking to the left as well with some of the state interventions.
:05:59. > :06:02.What was interesting about the analysis you showed a few minutes
:06:03. > :06:07.ago was the number of Tory candidates who have apparently not
:06:08. > :06:11.declared which way they voted in the referendum, and you would have
:06:12. > :06:15.thought if this election was all about Brexit, as some would claim,
:06:16. > :06:20.that would become an unsustainable position, and actually more it's
:06:21. > :06:25.about leadership. But the point that I'm now hearing from a number of
:06:26. > :06:31.Labour candidates that they are seeing Tory leaflets that don't even
:06:32. > :06:36.have the Tory candidate's name on them, it is just about Theresa May.
:06:37. > :06:41.I am glad they are keeping to the law because by law they have to put
:06:42. > :06:47.it on. It has been harder for some of the smaller parties too because
:06:48. > :06:53.of the speed of the election being called. We have the manifesto is
:06:54. > :06:57.coming out this week. I think Labour Forshaw on Tuesday, we are not yet
:06:58. > :07:01.sure when the Tories will bring bears out. I suggest one thing, it
:07:02. > :07:09.will at least for people like me bring an end to the question you
:07:10. > :07:12.will have to wait for the manifesto. And Rebecca Long baby will never
:07:13. > :07:22.have that excuse again, isn't it wonderful! She is not the only one.
:07:23. > :07:28.When you are trying to take the north and Midlands from Labour, I
:07:29. > :07:33.would go to one or the other. For me, I can barely hold back my
:07:34. > :07:36.excitement over the Tory manifesto. This will be, I think, the most
:07:37. > :07:45.important day for the British government for the next five years.
:07:46. > :07:50.That wasn't irony there? You actually meant that? I'm not even
:07:51. > :07:57.being cynical at all on Sunday Politics! This is a huge day and
:07:58. > :08:01.it's because I think we will see... I don't think Mrs May will play it
:08:02. > :08:07.safe and I don't think we will get the broadbrush stuff that she might
:08:08. > :08:11.be advised to do. I think she will lay out precisely what you want to
:08:12. > :08:16.do over the next five years and take some big risks. Then finally after a
:08:17. > :08:20.year of this guessing and theorising, we will finally work out
:08:21. > :08:23.what Mrs May is all about. She will say she doesn't want the next
:08:24. > :08:27.parliament to be all about Brexit, though she knows that's the next
:08:28. > :08:31.important thing she has to deliver in some way, so she gets a mandate
:08:32. > :08:42.for that if the polls are right but she
:08:43. > :08:46.does have very different ideas from Mr Cameron about how to run a
:08:47. > :08:48.country. She will I assume one to mandate for what these different
:08:49. > :08:51.ideas are. Otherwise there is no point in holding an early election.
:08:52. > :08:55.You will get a majority, but if you get a mandate to carry on
:08:56. > :08:58.implementing the Cameron and Osborne manifesto it would be utterly
:08:59. > :09:01.pointless. I agree, it is the pivotal event of the election and it
:09:02. > :09:05.will be interesting to see the degree to which she expands on the
:09:06. > :09:10.line which interests me about its time to look at the good that
:09:11. > :09:17.government can do. Because in a way this moves the debate on in UK
:09:18. > :09:20.politics from, from 97 the Blair Brown governments were insecure
:09:21. > :09:25.about arguing about the role of government. Cameron Osborne
:09:26. > :09:29.government similarly so, so here you have a Labour Party talking about
:09:30. > :09:33.the role of government and the state, and Tory leader apparently
:09:34. > :09:37.doing so was well. I think that will be really interesting to see whether
:09:38. > :09:43.it is fleshed out in any significant way. And it is not a natural Tory
:09:44. > :09:50.message. Harold Macmillan talked about the role of the state, Ted
:09:51. > :09:55.Heath Mark two was pretty big on the state, the industrial policy and so
:09:56. > :09:59.on, and even if it is not thought to be that Tory, does she get away with
:10:00. > :10:04.it because she deliver such a big victory if that's what she does
:10:05. > :10:10.deliver? Just inject a little note of scepticism, I wonder how much of
:10:11. > :10:18.this is authentically Theresa May. I was interested to and talk to
:10:19. > :10:21.someone who used to sit in cabinet meetings during which Theresa May
:10:22. > :10:24.never expressed an opinion on anything outside the Home Office
:10:25. > :10:33.briefs. Other ministers were roving all over their colleagues' briefs.
:10:34. > :10:40.So where are the ideas coming from? I think we can point to Nick
:10:41. > :10:45.Timothy. One of her closest advisers in Downing Street. It will be
:10:46. > :10:51.interesting to see how that evolves. On Thursday I think we will all be
:10:52. > :11:01.talking about something called Urdington Toryism. Urdington is the
:11:02. > :11:06.suburb of Birmingham where Nick Timothy comes from, who is very much
:11:07. > :11:11.Theresa May's policy brain and leading inspiration. Urdington
:11:12. > :11:16.Toryism is about connecting the party with traditional working class
:11:17. > :11:20.voters, and their belief to do that is not just taking away government
:11:21. > :11:24.out of their lives but showing them that government can actually help
:11:25. > :11:36.their lives. It can be a force for good to rebuild the trust. A lot of
:11:37. > :11:40.what Mrs May talks about is all... It is talk and then a lot of it
:11:41. > :11:49.suddenly goes by the wayside. What happened to worker directors on the
:11:50. > :11:53.boards. It is designed to appeal to that constituency and then nothing
:11:54. > :11:58.happens. She had an excuse before in the sense that it wasn't in the 2015
:11:59. > :12:01.manifesto and she had a small majority so therefore she arguably
:12:02. > :12:07.had to water down some of the stuff for example in her Tory conference
:12:08. > :12:11.speech, which had a lot of this active government material in it. If
:12:12. > :12:16.she puts it in the manifesto, it is a sign she plans to do it and will
:12:17. > :12:20.have no excuse if she then gets nervous afterwards because it will
:12:21. > :12:25.be in there. If it wasn't for Brexit, this great overwhelming
:12:26. > :12:28.issue, I think this election will be seen as quite a significant
:12:29. > :12:33.development in terms of an argument around the role of government,
:12:34. > :12:38.much-needed. But Brexit unfortunately overshadows it all. As
:12:39. > :12:42.much as we like our arguments over the role of government we will hear
:12:43. > :12:50.strong and stable, stable and strong ad nauseam, aren't we? Absolutely,
:12:51. > :12:56.and we heard the same old lines from the Labour Party as well so they are
:12:57. > :12:59.all at it. It will be a fascinating week, stop talking it down! Thanks
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