0:00:37 > 0:00:39Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the Sunday Politics.
0:00:39 > 0:00:41I'm Sarah Smith.
0:00:41 > 0:00:44And this is your guide to everything that's happening in the world
0:00:44 > 0:00:45of politics this Sunday morning.
0:00:45 > 0:00:48On today's show:
0:00:48 > 0:00:51Theresa May's right-hand man Damian Green has denied claims that
0:00:51 > 0:00:57police found pornography on a computer in his office in 2008.
0:00:57 > 0:01:00He says the allegations by a former police chief are "political smears."
0:01:00 > 0:01:03With claims of sexual harassment at Westminster growing by the day,
0:01:03 > 0:01:05can either Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn do anything to get
0:01:05 > 0:01:07to grips with a scandal threatening to engulf
0:01:07 > 0:01:11the entire political class?
0:01:11 > 0:01:18We'll ask a minister and senior member of the Shadow Cabinet.
0:01:18 > 0:01:26And some on the left of politics have been gathering to mark 100
0:01:26 > 0:01:28Future rail journeys direct from Dorset could be faster
0:01:28 > 0:01:29but there'll be fewer of them
0:01:29 > 0:01:31and they won't stop at smaller stations.
0:01:31 > 0:01:32Passengers are not happy.
0:01:45 > 0:01:46So there's plenty of explosive political news
0:01:46 > 0:01:49to get you in the mood for bonfire night -
0:01:49 > 0:01:51and with me as usual, three journalists who know quite
0:01:51 > 0:01:53a bit about parliamentary plots - if rather less about
0:01:53 > 0:01:54gunpowder and treason.
0:01:54 > 0:01:57It's Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott and Steve Richards.
0:01:57 > 0:02:00So what are the big political stories making the news this Sunday?
0:02:00 > 0:02:08Well, the papers are brimming with further allegations against MPs
0:02:08 > 0:02:11in the sexual harassment scandal, which according to one newspaper has
0:02:11 > 0:02:12left Westminster frozen in fear.
0:02:12 > 0:02:14First Secretary of State Damian Green, already under
0:02:14 > 0:02:16investigation over allegations - which he strongly denies -
0:02:16 > 0:02:19of propositioning a female activist, is the subject of new claims that
0:02:19 > 0:02:21police discovered pornography on a computer in his Westminster
0:02:21 > 0:02:23office in 2008.
0:02:23 > 0:02:25Mr Green denies the allegation, made by former senior
0:02:25 > 0:02:27police officer Bob Quick, saying it is "completely untrue,"
0:02:27 > 0:02:35and adding that he is the victim of disreputable "political smears."
0:02:35 > 0:02:38Michael Fallon, who resigned as Defence Secretary this week
0:02:38 > 0:02:40over his past behaviour, is also subject to fresh claims
0:02:40 > 0:02:46he lunged at a female journalist in 2003 after a lunch.
0:02:46 > 0:02:48Labour is facing questions over its handling of sexual
0:02:48 > 0:02:55misconduct allegations.
0:02:55 > 0:02:58This morning Shadow Cabinet minister Dawn Butler refused to be drawn
0:02:58 > 0:03:00on whether Jeremy Corbyn knew about alleged misconduct by MP
0:03:00 > 0:03:08Kelvin Hopkins when he was promoted to the Shadow Cabinet.
0:03:08 > 0:03:10And there is a reminder that normal political life goes on,
0:03:10 > 0:03:13with reports that the Cabinet has agreed to put housing at the heart
0:03:13 > 0:03:15of Philip Hammond's upcoming Budget.
0:03:15 > 0:03:17Well, let's hear from Home Secretary Amber Rudd now -
0:03:17 > 0:03:20she was on the Andrew Marr Show earlier talking about the claims
0:03:20 > 0:03:22against her Cabinet colleague Damian Green.
0:03:22 > 0:03:29Absolutely not. I think it is something that will take place in
0:03:29 > 0:03:34terms of clearing out Westminster of that sort of behaviour, and I think
0:03:34 > 0:03:36that Westminster afterwards, including the Government, will be
0:03:36 > 0:03:45better for it. When we are confident that men and women can work any
0:03:45 > 0:03:47respectful environment and people on the receiving end of abuse of power
0:03:47 > 0:03:54can come forward. That will be a positive thing.
0:03:54 > 0:03:58Let's see what our panel make of this fairly explosive week. Good
0:03:58 > 0:04:05morning to all of you. Starting with you, Steve. Not a party political
0:04:05 > 0:04:08issue but the Tories are in Government. How much harder for them
0:04:08 > 0:04:13is it an Labour?Always harder when you are in Government because it
0:04:13 > 0:04:16makes governing almost impossible. And the wider context is a Prime
0:04:16 > 0:04:19Minister who lost her overall majority a few months ago and
0:04:19 > 0:04:23actually that is the context of everything. When you are having to
0:04:23 > 0:04:25deal with the scandal of such unpredictability, where the
0:04:25 > 0:04:37terms are so imprecise, it is a "lunge", a resignation issue, to use
0:04:37 > 0:04:41that term, and nightmare. I don't think it is fatal. Scandals rarely
0:04:41 > 0:04:47bring down governments, but it makes governing for Theresa May a form of
0:04:47 > 0:04:50political health.Isabel Oakeshott, Damian Green has denied all
0:04:50 > 0:04:53allegations made against him, but there are more this morning. He is
0:04:53 > 0:04:59being investigated by the Cabinet Office at the moment. If Theresa May
0:04:59 > 0:05:02were to effectively lose her Deputy Prime Minister, has serious without
0:05:02 > 0:05:07the?I think very serious indeed. I think it is very significant and
0:05:07 > 0:05:11strange he was not defended in the Home Secretary Amber Rudd in that
0:05:11 > 0:05:15clip we saw today, she didn't say I am certain he will survive, and I am
0:05:15 > 0:05:19beginning to feel that Damian may not survive this. We don't know
0:05:19 > 0:05:23whether it is the last of the allegations that may come out in
0:05:23 > 0:05:27relation to him. It seems to me that the allegations were previously of a
0:05:27 > 0:05:33rather minor order, but this seems to have escalated. And I think one
0:05:33 > 0:05:36of the big problems for Theresa May, and there are the many at the
0:05:36 > 0:05:42moment, for months we have been saying that this Government has no
0:05:42 > 0:05:45bandwidth to do anything except Brexit and right now she can't even
0:05:45 > 0:05:49do Brexit. What is the point of it all?It is important to make clear
0:05:49 > 0:05:53not only that Damian Green denies all of these allegations, but the
0:05:53 > 0:05:59computer mentioned was in a shared office so there is no reason it
0:05:59 > 0:06:03would definitely be his # No guarantee it would definitely
0:06:03 > 0:06:15be his. But we have had two MPs on television this morning, Anna
0:06:15 > 0:06:20Soubry, saying he should stand down. There is an awful lot going on here.
0:06:20 > 0:06:26It is not just a pretty awful sexual harassment scandal. There are also
0:06:26 > 0:06:30without a doubt MPs, police officers, going about settling
0:06:30 > 0:06:34scores. For me I have to say for our pretty discredited police officer
0:06:34 > 0:06:38Bob Quick, to make accusations against serving Cabinet minister, to
0:06:38 > 0:06:46suggest he should go for extreme pornography on computers he may or
0:06:46 > 0:06:49may not have known, it may be extremely distasteful but it is
0:06:49 > 0:06:52alarming for democracy to have ex-police officers like this coming
0:06:52 > 0:06:56in and trying to play with democracy. Some politicians are also
0:06:56 > 0:06:59meeting claims, some for the right reasons to get the allegations out
0:06:59 > 0:07:02there and so on but others for their own agendas and all of this puts the
0:07:02 > 0:07:06Prime Minister in an unbelievably hard situation. I agree with Steve
0:07:06 > 0:07:10and Isabel, she desperately needs two show leadership in all this, but
0:07:10 > 0:07:13every way she could turn there are incredible downfalls, people blaming
0:07:13 > 0:07:17her for trying to get to the bottom of all this. It is very people who
0:07:17 > 0:07:22she is relying on for her leadership, the very Tory MPs the
0:07:22 > 0:07:25support she can't lose.It is not just the Tory party and of course
0:07:25 > 0:07:28Jeremy Corbyn will be making a speech later today where this will
0:07:28 > 0:07:32inevitably and there are accusations about how the senior leadership in
0:07:32 > 0:07:38the Labour Party have handled this. What about that situation?Yes, but
0:07:38 > 0:07:40the Government is much harder because you are meant to be doing
0:07:40 > 0:07:4410,000 other things at the same time. This is about a deregulated
0:07:44 > 0:07:48work environment. For all those who say, I hate the way Britain is too
0:07:48 > 0:07:50regulated, this is what happens in a deregulated work environment. The
0:07:50 > 0:08:00House of Commons has no HR or whatever, MPs, advisors, so, MPs
0:08:00 > 0:08:03actually don't have much power but they do have power over who the
0:08:03 > 0:08:07point and how to treat them. I think this is the way forward in terms of
0:08:07 > 0:08:10the practical outcome, but it is across the political spectrum.But
0:08:10 > 0:08:16it is unclear what it will be. Can the party sort this out?I'm not
0:08:16 > 0:08:19sure I entirely agree, Steve, you cannot regulate all human
0:08:19 > 0:08:23interaction and a lot of these stories have been about interactions
0:08:23 > 0:08:28between politicians and journalists alike, who have gone out for lunch,
0:08:28 > 0:08:33chosen to drink, presumably to create an informal atmosphere, and
0:08:33 > 0:08:38at what point is a step towards somebody to say goodbye, a peck on
0:08:38 > 0:08:43the cheek or whatever, a lunge? You can't regulate that sort of thing.
0:08:43 > 0:08:48Throughout the programme will come back to some of these things and how
0:08:48 > 0:08:49they might be regulated.
0:08:49 > 0:08:52Now, the Home Secretary has also today been talking
0:08:52 > 0:08:54about what she calls the "moral duty" of social media companies
0:08:54 > 0:08:57to stop child sexual exploitation, ahead of a meeting with her US
0:08:57 > 0:08:58counterparts this week.
0:08:58 > 0:09:01We're joined now by the Home Office minister Sarah Newton -
0:09:01 > 0:09:03she's in our Truro studio.
0:09:03 > 0:09:06Thanks very much for coming in to speak the first night. I want to
0:09:06 > 0:09:09talk to you about the Government's efforts to tackle child pornography,
0:09:09 > 0:09:13but let's pick up on some of the sexual harassment issues at
0:09:13 > 0:09:16Westminster first. Two of your parliamentary colleagues this
0:09:16 > 0:09:19morning saying they think the first Secretary of State Damian Green
0:09:19 > 0:09:26should step down whilst being investigated. Do you agree?Look, he
0:09:26 > 0:09:32has vigorously denied these accusations, and the Cabinet Office
0:09:32 > 0:09:37is investigating these accusations, so we do have processes for when
0:09:37 > 0:09:39ministers have these accusations made against them so they are
0:09:39 > 0:09:44properly investigated. And that is what is going on at the moment.Is
0:09:44 > 0:09:49that process people can be confident in? He is effectively being
0:09:49 > 0:09:55investigated by Jeremy Heywood, one of his colleagues.This is a tried
0:09:55 > 0:09:59and tested process that has stood the test of time, and it is
0:09:59 > 0:10:03important...Has it? Surely what we are learning is it has not stood the
0:10:03 > 0:10:06test of time and that in fact allegations like this have been
0:10:06 > 0:10:10swept under the carpet and ignored for years and years in Westminster,
0:10:10 > 0:10:14exactly what we are learning right now.I think you are conflating two
0:10:14 > 0:10:18things they are, and what we really do need to do is look at the whole
0:10:18 > 0:10:22range of allegations people have been making, and make sure
0:10:22 > 0:10:26Parliament is a safe place for people to work, a respectful
0:10:26 > 0:10:32environment for people who have been subjected to harassment or bullying
0:10:32 > 0:10:34or inappropriate behaviour, so that they feel confident to come forward
0:10:34 > 0:10:38knowing they will be listened to, that there will be an open and
0:10:38 > 0:10:41transparent and fair to everyone concerned process for getting to the
0:10:41 > 0:10:45bottom of it, and that is exactly what the Prime Minister and the
0:10:45 > 0:10:51Leader of the Cows have set out, Prime Minister's meeting with all
0:10:51 > 0:10:56the leaders of the parties tomorrow to set out a proper process so we
0:10:56 > 0:11:04can modernise the work environment at Westminster -- leader of the
0:11:04 > 0:11:08House have set out.You think Damian Green should remain in the Cabinet
0:11:08 > 0:11:13well being investigated?That will be down to Sir Jeremy Heywood. If he
0:11:13 > 0:11:17thinks the misdemeanours have a basis, that he should stand aside,
0:11:17 > 0:11:23that will be the recommendation. I will not second the inquiry on what
0:11:23 > 0:11:27Sir Jeremy Heywood finds.You were in the Whips' Office yourself for a
0:11:27 > 0:11:31year. And much has been said this week of the whips being in receipt
0:11:31 > 0:11:35of a lot of information about bad behaviour, and instead of reporting
0:11:35 > 0:11:39it to authorities they were using it as ammunition. Was that your
0:11:39 > 0:11:45experience?Absolutely not. I was at the Whips' Office up to 2015 and,
0:11:45 > 0:11:48yes, I heard about the rumours of a black spreadsheet, and I can
0:11:48 > 0:11:52certainly say I never saw such a thing. How I went about my business
0:11:52 > 0:11:57as a whip is really twofold. It is quite a technical job in many ways,
0:11:57 > 0:12:03about of the Government through the House, working with the House
0:12:03 > 0:12:07authorities, the opposition. Also... Did you ever hear rumours of these
0:12:07 > 0:12:15people's bad behaviour?Sorry?Did you ever hear rumours of MPs
0:12:15 > 0:12:18misbehaving, sexual harassment, allegations are that?If anybody had
0:12:18 > 0:12:22brought a complaint to me about the behaviour of one of the MPs who were
0:12:22 > 0:12:27in my flock, I would take that really seriously, but bull-mac, that
0:12:27 > 0:12:30didn't happen.You said nobody brought you a complaint. Did you
0:12:30 > 0:12:37hear rumours? -- but no, that didn't happen.About the members of my
0:12:37 > 0:12:40flock? Absolutely not.Is that the MPs you were specifically in charge
0:12:40 > 0:12:47of?I did not have that experience at all.Let's move on and talk about
0:12:47 > 0:12:51the Home Secretary's trip to Washington this week, where she will
0:12:51 > 0:12:54urge tech companies to go further and faster on online child abuse. We
0:12:54 > 0:12:58have heard a lot from this Government urging these companies to
0:12:58 > 0:13:02do something. One specific ideas of what they could do, do you have a
0:13:02 > 0:13:05clear idea of what you are asking from tech companies?Absolutely
0:13:05 > 0:13:11right. As you know, this horrendous crime of child sexual exploitation
0:13:11 > 0:13:16and grooming is constantly evolving as the opportunities for the
0:13:16 > 0:13:20perpetrators arise. They are now using live streaming, different
0:13:20 > 0:13:24sorts of platforms, which are largely controlled by the big
0:13:24 > 0:13:29companies in America. What we really want them to do is to step up and
0:13:29 > 0:13:34use their huge expertise, used the huge money they have got, to help
0:13:34 > 0:13:38find technological solutions to read their sites and rid the opportunity
0:13:38 > 0:13:41of these paedophiles to be able to groom young people. We need the
0:13:41 > 0:13:49politicians in America to exert pressure, as well as other
0:13:49 > 0:13:52companies, because these are global problems. We are not going to solve
0:13:52 > 0:13:56this problem in the UK alone. We have made a lot of progress, working
0:13:56 > 0:14:00with Facebook and other companies as well, but we really need to keep one
0:14:00 > 0:14:05step ahead of the technology, one step ahead of the perpetrators, who
0:14:05 > 0:14:10are using these opportunities to commit horrendous crimes.
0:14:10 > 0:14:14It was back in 2014 Theresa May for the Internet companies to do more in
0:14:14 > 0:14:18terms of child abuse online and we have not seen significant action,
0:14:18 > 0:14:21and it does not appear these kind of calls from the Government actually
0:14:21 > 0:14:27make difference. Well, at the moment we are seeing
0:14:27 > 0:14:32the police being able to make about 400 arrests per month, about 500
0:14:32 > 0:14:35children being safeguarded. The Government itself is investing a lot
0:14:35 > 0:14:42of money in new technology like the project Arachnid, and making sure
0:14:42 > 0:14:45the police have the specialist resources they need to go
0:14:45 > 0:14:48undercover, and absolutely find these perpetrators and bring them to
0:14:48 > 0:14:51justice, but we do need to constantly have the engagement and
0:14:51 > 0:14:55support of the companies themselves to invest in further technologies to
0:14:55 > 0:14:59prevent this from happening. As you say, we have made progress but we
0:14:59 > 0:15:03need to see yet more.Sarah Newton, thank you very much for speaking to
0:15:03 > 0:15:06us today.
0:15:06 > 0:15:07Michael Fallon's decision to resign this week,
0:15:07 > 0:15:12saying his past conduct with women fell short of the standard expected
0:15:12 > 0:15:15of the Armed Forces, led to something of a minor reshuffle.
0:15:15 > 0:15:17And the Prime Minister took Westminster by surprise
0:15:17 > 0:15:19when she announced his replacement, former Chief Whip and relative
0:15:19 > 0:15:21newcomer to the ministerial ranks, Gavin Williamson.
0:15:21 > 0:15:26Here he is speaking on the day of his appointment.
0:15:26 > 0:15:28It's an immense privilege to have been appointed Secretary
0:15:28 > 0:15:31of State for Defence, and what we need to be doing
0:15:31 > 0:15:33is continuing to focus on countering Daesh,
0:15:33 > 0:15:35making sure that our national security is at the forefront
0:15:35 > 0:15:38of everything that we do, and we have some of the world's
0:15:38 > 0:15:40greatest armed services, and it's such a privilege to be able
0:15:40 > 0:15:47to work with them.
0:15:47 > 0:15:49Gavin Williamson, who you saw there, arrives at the Ministry of Defence
0:15:49 > 0:15:52at a challenging time for UK defence.
0:15:52 > 0:15:53The Government has promised an above-inflation increase
0:15:53 > 0:15:55in spending every year but the Ministry of Defence
0:15:55 > 0:15:57is already committed to finding £20 billion of savings
0:15:57 > 0:15:59over the next ten years.
0:15:59 > 0:16:01The Cabinet Office is currently conducting a security review
0:16:01 > 0:16:04which will look at military capabilities and funding up to 2022,
0:16:04 > 0:16:05while there are continuing reports of shortages
0:16:05 > 0:16:10of manpower and equipment.
0:16:10 > 0:16:12And if Labour were to win power, questions persist over
0:16:12 > 0:16:15what a Jeremy Corbyn premiership would mean for defence budget
0:16:15 > 0:16:17and the traditional cornerstones of UK defence policy
0:16:17 > 0:16:18like Trident and Nato.
0:16:18 > 0:16:20Well we're joined now by the Shadow Defence
0:16:20 > 0:16:23secretary, Nia Griffith.
0:16:23 > 0:16:25Well we're joined now by the Shadow Defence
0:16:25 > 0:16:30secretary, Nia Griffith.
0:16:30 > 0:16:35Let's talk about defence spending first. Would Labour commit to the
0:16:35 > 0:16:39same thing this Government has which is an above inflation increase in
0:16:39 > 0:16:43spending every year?We've been absolutely clear about that. First
0:16:43 > 0:16:48and foremost we'd meet our commitment of spending at least 2%
0:16:48 > 0:16:55of GDP on defence as is our Nato commitment and we would match the
0:16:55 > 0:16:57Government's year-on-year 0.5% increase above inflation. This is
0:16:57 > 0:17:01really important. Labour's always had a good strong track record of
0:17:01 > 0:17:05spending on defence.Jeremy Corbyn seems to have a different view.
0:17:05 > 0:17:10Speaking at a protest in 2010 he said Labour wanted to fight all the
0:17:10 > 0:17:14cuts except those in the Armed Forces where we want to see a few
0:17:14 > 0:17:18more cuts taking place. He doesn't seem committed to defence spending?
0:17:18 > 0:17:23In the manifesto for this year's election, 2017, he and John
0:17:23 > 0:17:26McDonnell have been absolutely clear we support the exact words I've been
0:17:26 > 0:17:32using now, at least 2% of the spend of GDP spent on defence.Jeremy
0:17:32 > 0:17:37Corbyn's changed his mind on that? He's been very clear about that and
0:17:37 > 0:17:42it was in our manifesto this year. You criticised the Government on
0:17:42 > 0:17:47whether they meet their 2% commitment on defence. You saying
0:17:47 > 0:17:50they were fiddling the figures because they were including
0:17:50 > 0:17:56pensions. You would strip that out and snake sure there's 2% spending
0:17:56 > 0:17:59on defence which doesn't include pensions?Technically, the
0:17:59 > 0:18:01Government would argue you are allowed to include pensions by the
0:18:01 > 0:18:07Nato rules. But we've been very clear, really, when you're talking
0:18:07 > 0:18:11about defence spending it should mean defence. When you look at the
0:18:11 > 0:18:16last year of the Labour Government we spent 2.5% GDP on defence. We are
0:18:16 > 0:18:21very much committed to looking at what we need in our defence budget
0:18:21 > 0:18:26and looking to the problems they have now where they can't meet the
0:18:26 > 0:18:30commitments they've made.You would sprip pensions out of those figures.
0:18:30 > 0:18:36In order to live up to these commitments you have to find an
0:18:36 > 0:18:40extra billion for the defence budgets because we're not
0:18:40 > 0:18:43calculating pensions anymore?John McDonnell is well aware of what they
0:18:43 > 0:18:48are doing. Putting in the conflict resolution money which Gordon Brown
0:18:48 > 0:18:53kept separate. He is well aware of the figures and the difficulties. We
0:18:53 > 0:18:57are certainly very committed to a defence budget that really does make
0:18:57 > 0:19:02a difference.I'm not clear whether you're telling me it will be 2% 69
0:19:02 > 0:19:08spending, excluding pensions?We want it to be 2% of GDP as in the
0:19:08 > 0:19:12way Labour always calculate it had up until 2010, not including
0:19:12 > 0:19:16pensions.A significant increase in military spending?We are talking
0:19:16 > 0:19:21about making sure the spending we need is there because, at the
0:19:21 > 0:19:24current situation, we have with the current Government, they are
0:19:24 > 0:19:29overstretched. Even the very caution National Audit Office says they are
0:19:29 > 0:19:35at immense risk of not being able to meet the expenditure commitment the
0:19:35 > 0:19:40they have made. Others talk about a black hole. You mentioned it that
0:19:40 > 0:19:47£20 billion. There is a real issue we have to address.To you know what
0:19:47 > 0:19:51it will cost, how muchedingsal funds will have to be found?We have to
0:19:51 > 0:19:57rook at what are the needs at the time as well as the facts we want to
0:19:57 > 0:20:01make that 2% commitment not including things which have just
0:20:01 > 0:20:04been brushed in now by the Conservative Government.Let's move
0:20:04 > 0:20:11on to a different aspect of defence. There is a treaty banning nuclear
0:20:11 > 0:20:14weapons opened at the UN for signatories. 122 countries have
0:20:14 > 0:20:20already signed it. Would an incoming Labour Government sign that treaty?
0:20:20 > 0:20:23The important point here is there was an Is inned opportunity for
0:20:23 > 0:20:28there to be observers from the UK. There should have been at that
0:20:28 > 0:20:33treaty talks.That doesn't change the calculation whether or not an
0:20:33 > 0:20:40incoming Labour Government would sign that treaty?We are committed
0:20:40 > 0:20:45to a strong multi-lateral disarming programme. That's what we've seen
0:20:45 > 0:20:48missing.This is a multilateral approach to try to get rid of
0:20:48 > 0:20:53nuclear weapons. What you say you want. Would a Labour Government sign
0:20:53 > 0:20:57that treaty?You we have to look at how you go about things. We need toe
0:20:57 > 0:21:01somebody clear we want to de-escalate tensions across the
0:21:01 > 0:21:06world. Work with other nuclear partners to help stop the
0:21:06 > 0:21:10proliferation of nuclear weapons. We want to work with those countries
0:21:10 > 0:21:15who feel very strongly about the treaty so we can work together. We
0:21:15 > 0:21:21have to do that in a multilateral framework.This is a multi-lateral
0:21:21 > 0:21:26disarmament framework. Under the auspice Is of the UN disto see how
0:21:26 > 0:21:29else it could be organised. This is a great opportunity for you, who
0:21:29 > 0:21:34have been a lifelong campaigner for disarmament.ment Labour Government
0:21:34 > 0:21:40will be the first nuclear power to do so, sign it and lead the way.We
0:21:40 > 0:21:45need to use our position to be responsible and call for responsible
0:21:45 > 0:21:48multi-lateral disarmamentment there was progress made on this in the
0:21:48 > 0:21:51eighties and nineties with considerable amount of are heads put
0:21:51 > 0:21:55to one side and destroyed. We need to get back on the front foot there.
0:21:55 > 0:21:58I don't see any presence by the UK Government at the moment on that
0:21:58 > 0:22:03aagain da. It is not helpful for the nukes leer nations to be separated
0:22:03 > 0:22:09from the non-nuclear nation in the these debates.That's why I don't
0:22:09 > 0:22:13understand why you're not taking the opportunity to say a Labour
0:22:13 > 0:22:17Government would Take The Stand.We should wok together and we should
0:22:17 > 0:22:22use our position as a nuclear power to work for a multilateral
0:22:22 > 0:22:26disarmament programme.You were very clear in your manifesto that the
0:22:26 > 0:22:30Labour Party would keep Trident for the meantime.Abs will yously.We
0:22:30 > 0:22:33know throughout his life, Jeremy Corbyn's long wanted to get rid of
0:22:33 > 0:22:40it. He signed up to the manifesto saying Trident would stay. Has he
0:22:40 > 0:22:45changed his minds?The important thing is that was a manifesto
0:22:45 > 0:22:49Jeremy, John McDonnell's agreed to. We stood on it in 2017 because that
0:22:49 > 0:22:54is the Labour Party position. Absolutely. I'm asking if the Labour
0:22:54 > 0:22:57Leader really believes in that position?He believes in democracy
0:22:57 > 0:23:00in the party. That is the Labour Party position. I don't see that
0:23:00 > 0:23:04position changing at all. He has said very clearly that he accepts
0:23:04 > 0:23:08that is our Labour Party position. And that is the manifesto we've
0:23:08 > 0:23:13stood on and will continue to stand on.I'll need to ask questions about
0:23:13 > 0:23:18sexual harassment in Westminster. It is as much as inissue for the Labour
0:23:18 > 0:23:22Party as the Conservative. It was not clear listening to Dawn Butler,
0:23:22 > 0:23:25your colleague on The Andrew Marr Show this morning, she was asked
0:23:25 > 0:23:29whether or not the leadership knew about allegations by Kelvin Hopkins.
0:23:29 > 0:23:34Do you know?I absolutely do not know at this moment in time. That's
0:23:34 > 0:23:36why there has to be an investigation. It is extremely
0:23:36 > 0:23:41important to find out what the allegations were, exactly what
0:23:41 > 0:23:46happened, who was told and who told what to whom. Then we will be in a
0:23:46 > 0:23:50position to see what the situation is. In the meantime, Kelvin Hopkins
0:23:50 > 0:23:57has been suspended which is the cricket thing to do.Rosie Winterton
0:23:57 > 0:24:02has been outspoken about what she let the leadership know. If it is
0:24:02 > 0:24:05the case the leadership did know about these allegations should he
0:24:05 > 0:24:09have been put into the Shadow Cabinet?The real question is who
0:24:09 > 0:24:15did know what when.But what I'm asking you is...I am anot going to
0:24:15 > 0:24:20speculate whether there was an if or whatever. We need to know how that
0:24:20 > 0:24:24information was transmitted. Was it put in writing. What it made clear,
0:24:24 > 0:24:28who was told what, when. Until we have a full investigation it would
0:24:28 > 0:24:32be inappropriate to comment. What is absolute lie clear, we need to get
0:24:32 > 0:24:36this right for the future. We must have proper procedures so we deal
0:24:36 > 0:24:41with incidents as and when they occur. And we deal with them
0:24:41 > 0:24:44prepperly in a way which gets to the bottom of the issue and deals with
0:24:44 > 0:24:49it properly.Why should anyone have confidence the Labour Party will
0:24:49 > 0:24:53treat issues that seriously when, firstly there's a question whether
0:24:53 > 0:24:58they knew about Kelvin hop kips and others have been dissuaded from
0:24:58 > 0:25:03making complaints. Knots just Bex Bailey. Monica Lennon said when she
0:25:03 > 0:25:07was harassed at a party senior figures in the Labour Party told her
0:25:07 > 0:25:14it was her own fault. It seems as if there hasn't been a culture within
0:25:14 > 0:25:20Labour to make a complaint.That's why we're having a thorough review
0:25:20 > 0:25:24of procedures. We brought in new procedures in July. We need to
0:25:24 > 0:25:30ensure there's a proper helpline available. We are appointing an
0:25:30 > 0:25:32independent organisation which will deal with allegations first-hand so
0:25:32 > 0:25:36nobody has to go to somebody they think might know other people, be
0:25:36 > 0:25:41friends with other people. They can go somewhere completely confidential
0:25:41 > 0:25:46and private. These are often things you can't want to tell your cross
0:25:46 > 0:25:50friends about. We will appoint that organisation and make sure people
0:25:50 > 0:25:55can go there and access to it is made widely known. It is very, very
0:25:55 > 0:25:58important when people come into a job, they know if anything does
0:25:58 > 0:26:02happen, they will be able to complain. Whether they are ordinary
0:26:02 > 0:26:08party members or working in Westminster.Thank you for talking
0:26:08 > 0:26:08to us
0:26:08 > 0:26:10For Thank you for talking to us some
0:26:10 > 0:26:12on the left of politics,
0:26:12 > 0:26:14this weekend wasn't just a chance
0:26:14 > 0:26:16to mark the anniversary of the failed gunpowder
0:26:16 > 0:26:18plot here in Britain, but also events in Russia 100 years
0:26:18 > 0:26:21ago, when Bolshevik revolutionaries led by Lenin seized power
0:26:21 > 0:26:23and ushered in seven decades of Communist rule.
0:26:23 > 0:26:25For critics, that's something to regret, not celebrate.
0:26:25 > 0:26:26Elizabeth Glinka went to one event in London to find out more.
0:26:31 > 0:26:33The 7th November 1917.
0:26:33 > 0:26:37Red Guards under the leadership of Vladimir Lenin begin to occupy
0:26:37 > 0:26:42Government buildings in Petrograd.
0:26:42 > 0:26:44This uprising, known popularly as Red October
0:26:44 > 0:26:47because of the difference in the Gregorian calendar,
0:26:47 > 0:26:50was, in fact, a coup.
0:26:50 > 0:26:54The winds of socialist change had been blowing for some time.
0:26:54 > 0:26:59The Tsars had resisted reform and millions toiled in a state
0:26:59 > 0:27:01of almost medieval surfdom.
0:27:01 > 0:27:05Then war.
0:27:05 > 0:27:10Nearly two million Russians would die.
0:27:10 > 0:27:15The revolution had really begun nine months earlier in February 1917.
0:27:15 > 0:27:21The world's first socialist republic was declared.
0:27:21 > 0:27:24October, well that was the Bolsheviks
0:27:24 > 0:27:28asserting their authority.
0:27:30 > 0:27:33A hundred years on, as this event at the TUC shows,
0:27:33 > 0:27:36there's still plenty of people who want to remember and even
0:27:36 > 0:27:40celebrate those momentous events.
0:27:40 > 0:27:42Mainly as an event in history,
0:27:42 > 0:27:45this is an example of historical development in action,
0:27:45 > 0:27:49the ability of people to club together and be able to affect
0:27:49 > 0:27:50the discourse of history.
0:27:50 > 0:27:53It was people's first attempt at trying to build socialism.
0:27:53 > 0:27:56Although there were many terrible things that happened,
0:27:56 > 0:27:58I think we have to try and draw from experience.
0:27:58 > 0:28:01Jeremy Corbyn's close friend and adviser, Andrew Murray,
0:28:01 > 0:28:04was chairing the opening session.
0:28:04 > 0:28:07He didn't want to talk to us but we did manage to speak
0:28:07 > 0:28:13to the daughter of one of the most famous Communists of all time.
0:28:13 > 0:28:16TRANSLATION:It's an historic moment
0:28:16 > 0:28:19which opened up possibilities for further changes
0:28:19 > 0:28:21and allowed other people to strive for a different world.
0:28:21 > 0:28:25A world, which it seems, some are still keen to push for.
0:28:25 > 0:28:27We're growing, so there is obviously a positive reflection.
0:28:27 > 0:28:29There is a lot of negative propaganda that comes
0:28:29 > 0:28:31from the Cold War period.
0:28:31 > 0:28:33It is harder to talk to older people maybe.
0:28:33 > 0:28:35But younger people are quite receptive.
0:28:35 > 0:28:38The events and discussions taking place here today cover a whole range
0:28:38 > 0:28:41of topics from women's rights to the Third World
0:28:41 > 0:28:44and the impact on British socialism.
0:28:44 > 0:28:48But there's much less discussion of the Russian Civil War,
0:28:48 > 0:28:52the purges and the political repression that would come later.
0:28:52 > 0:28:54We wanted to have this conference
0:28:54 > 0:28:57because we wanted to show it in a positive light.
0:28:57 > 0:29:01Whatever one's view of what happened to the Soviet Union subsequently
0:29:01 > 0:29:05the fact is it is important to understand the process
0:29:05 > 0:29:08of revolutionary change for its own sake.
0:29:09 > 0:29:13Red October would usher in 70 years of communism.
0:29:13 > 0:29:16The proletarite would rise, find respect and security.
0:29:16 > 0:29:20But the suppression of the peoples of Eastern Europe, the forced labour
0:29:20 > 0:29:24camps and the murder of hundreds of thousands, if not millions
0:29:24 > 0:29:28of people, make it difficult for many to see that revolution
0:29:28 > 0:29:32as something to celebrate.
0:29:33 > 0:29:35That was Elizabeth Glinka reporting.
0:29:35 > 0:29:37So is the centenary of the Russian Revolution a cause
0:29:37 > 0:29:39for celebration, or regret?
0:29:39 > 0:29:41Well, to discuss this I'm joined by former Labour
0:29:41 > 0:29:47and Respect MP George Galloway, and the journalist Peter Hitchens.
0:29:47 > 0:29:52Good morning. Let me start with you George Galloway. Is the October
0:29:52 > 0:29:56revolution a cause for celebration? With the, if not for the October
0:29:56 > 0:30:00revolution, we'd been conducting this interview in German. Though the
0:30:00 > 0:30:03truth is this interview wouldn't be taking place and we probably
0:30:03 > 0:30:11wouldn't be alive for a variety of reasons. The Soviet Union broke the
0:30:11 > 0:30:14back of Hitler, as Mr Churchill often owe pined in Parliament and
0:30:14 > 0:30:22elsewhere. If not for the Soviet Union, Hitler would have ruled. And
0:30:22 > 0:30:27his successorsness, perhaps until now, from Vladivostok all the way to
0:30:27 > 0:30:31Portugal.You say we wouldn't be able to have this discussion. In the
0:30:31 > 0:30:34former Soviet Union we couldn't have this office either?That's also
0:30:34 > 0:30:42true. But even the...George will be able to say, that of course.Even
0:30:42 > 0:30:46the sun has spots on its face as they used to say in the Soviet
0:30:46 > 0:30:55Union. There is no doubt tremendous abrasions, big crimes, a lot of
0:30:55 > 0:31:05suffering but, if not for the transformation, then the Soviet
0:31:05 > 0:31:12Union, Russia's GDP increased from 1930 to 190 and the Nazi occupation.
0:31:12 > 0:31:19And the strength that defeated Hitlerism would not have been there.
0:31:19 > 0:31:22Peter Hitchens, does it offend you there are people celebrating 100
0:31:22 > 0:31:28years since the Russian Revolution? Offend? No, but in the Soviet Union,
0:31:28 > 0:31:33in which I lived, you would not have been able to say it was set up by a
0:31:33 > 0:31:35cynical bitch, almost bloodless, but engineered by the German Imperial
0:31:35 > 0:31:52Government using -- a cynical putsch, almost bloodless. That this
0:31:52 > 0:31:58was the inauguration of an immensely long period of repression,
0:31:58 > 0:32:02brutality, secret police, concentration camps and lies, which
0:32:02 > 0:32:06I am likely to have seen come to an end in my lifetime, and I cannot see
0:32:06 > 0:32:09why anybody looking at that disastrous country where so much
0:32:09 > 0:32:12misery was needlessly imposed on so many people for so long could
0:32:12 > 0:32:15possibly celebrate the beginning of it, which was completely avoidable,
0:32:15 > 0:32:21and as I say was truly the result of the cynical foreign policy and
0:32:21 > 0:32:23intelligence operations of the Imperial German Government is trying
0:32:23 > 0:32:27to save it skin...But everyone including George Galloway
0:32:27 > 0:32:32acknowledges the tyranny and terror that followed.He doesn't. He gives
0:32:32 > 0:32:35statistics about GDP but fails to mention the people murdered in
0:32:35 > 0:32:42labour
0:32:42 > 0:32:48camp... He was of course formerly a Trotskyite and sung the praises of
0:32:48 > 0:32:52Lenin, which I have not done and neither have I done today. I have
0:32:52 > 0:32:56never been a Communist, unlike Peter Hitchens, but I do acknowledge and
0:32:56 > 0:33:01celebrate that an entirely different world opened up as a result of the
0:33:01 > 0:33:05events in October 19 17. China, you have just seen their party congress,
0:33:05 > 0:33:10decorated with the iconography of the Bolshevik Revolution, and China
0:33:10 > 0:33:13is the most powerful, or soon will be the most powerful country on the
0:33:13 > 0:33:18earth.With one of the most repressive government?I don't think
0:33:18 > 0:33:24that is true. There is repression in China, but...Enormous repression in
0:33:24 > 0:33:28China! How can you possibly argue there is an?China has taken more
0:33:28 > 0:33:33people out of poverty in the last 30 years than any country, resume,
0:33:33 > 0:33:38system, ever has -- how can you possibly argue there is not?All
0:33:38 > 0:33:42despots always argue, trying to distract your attention from the
0:33:42 > 0:33:45mountains of skulls behind them, their supposed economic success,
0:33:45 > 0:33:49which generally does not turn out to be as great as claimed. The Soviet
0:33:49 > 0:33:54Union was an enormous pile of rust by the time I lived there and was a
0:33:54 > 0:33:58complete catastrophe.Yes, that is why it fell down. But we are talking
0:33:58 > 0:34:04about the Revolution 100 years ago. Is it possible to separate the two
0:34:04 > 0:34:07events? A popular overthrowing of a government is perhaps different from
0:34:07 > 0:34:12the tyranny and terror that followed.It was not a popular
0:34:12 > 0:34:16overthrow. You sure this Eisenstein propaganda as if it were fact. What
0:34:16 > 0:34:21we see was a film made afterwards. What actually happened was a putsch
0:34:21 > 0:34:30in the middle of the night in which hardly anybody... Nobody has even
0:34:30 > 0:34:37mentioned...That German connection, a rather more important...Nobody
0:34:37 > 0:34:39has even mentioned during this year until now that there was a Russian
0:34:39 > 0:34:45Revolution. There were two. The first one was a genuine uprising,
0:34:45 > 0:34:48overthrowing the old regime, and I think we can all be glad of it. The
0:34:48 > 0:34:55second one was a cynical for -- foreign financed putsch and it does
0:34:55 > 0:34:58not deserve to be spoken out.Is that true, and Menshevik revolution
0:34:58 > 0:35:04would have done better than a Bolshevik one?It is not my business
0:35:04 > 0:35:10and entirely counterfactual fiction, if I may...Unlike how you open this
0:35:10 > 0:35:14discussion.That is the most important thing. If not for the
0:35:14 > 0:35:21Soviet Union, we wouldn't be here. Hetmyer might still, and most of the
0:35:21 > 0:35:26world, with its allies -- Adolph Hitler might have won and they make,
0:35:26 > 0:35:31and most of the world...The effect of Bolshevism and coming is on
0:35:31 > 0:35:34Europe was colossal.Let's bring it all a little bit more up-to-date.
0:35:34 > 0:35:40You were saying earlier you have never been a Leninist, although
0:35:40 > 0:35:46Peter Hitchens confesses he was at one time.Absolutely was a
0:35:46 > 0:35:53Trotskyist, and now nor the complete folly of that particular political
0:35:53 > 0:35:57disposition.John McDonnell in the Labour Party openly says he is a
0:35:57 > 0:36:02Trotskyist, a Leninist, is that a problem for the Labour Party?I
0:36:02 > 0:36:05would have thought, arts would be more respected now than he has been
0:36:05 > 0:36:11for quite some time as capitalism is collapsing around our ears. From
0:36:11 > 0:36:172008 the Economist itself, the bible of capitalism, began to resurrect
0:36:17 > 0:36:22Marxist economics and analysis, so I really don't think it is. Jeremy
0:36:22 > 0:36:31Corbyn is not a Marxist. It only took them four years, 54...It is
0:36:31 > 0:36:39not that.I think we are moving into an era where Governments like the
0:36:39 > 0:36:43Chinese Government are making plans, and are succeeding in implementing
0:36:43 > 0:36:49them, and thus transforming their position. China in 1949, and I don't
0:36:49 > 0:36:52need to tell you, was just about the most backward place you could
0:36:52 > 0:36:59possibly imagine. And from 1949 to now it has sold transforms that it
0:36:59 > 0:37:07is the world's biggest economy...We are in danger of getting sidetracked
0:37:07 > 0:37:12by China here.I have to put this point in. If China was backward in
0:37:12 > 0:37:161949 it was far more backward by the time Mao Zedong finished his great
0:37:16 > 0:37:19leap forward and starved millions of people to death in the period of
0:37:19 > 0:37:25economic lunacy. You just don't notice...What George was saying
0:37:25 > 0:37:29they are, and a sense certainly amongst younger voters in this
0:37:29 > 0:37:31country and others, where they are turning against capitalism, they
0:37:31 > 0:37:35don't think it has worked or delivered for them, that this kind
0:37:35 > 0:37:39of Marxist Leninist philosophy is becoming more popular?Let's hope
0:37:39 > 0:37:43not. The fact the current system is failing does not seem to recommend
0:37:43 > 0:37:48the Soviet system, which is demonstrably a failure, and even its
0:37:48 > 0:37:52own leaders admitted it failed and that is why they tried to reform it
0:37:52 > 0:37:55in the period I was there and why it collapsed. Whatever you might want
0:37:55 > 0:37:58to conclude from examining our position, the Soviet alternative is
0:37:58 > 0:38:01not the thing you want the dues. This was a long period of disaster,
0:38:01 > 0:38:06and I remember at the end of it watching in Moscow said a film which
0:38:06 > 0:38:12has never been shown here, and the title means approximately we can't
0:38:12 > 0:38:18go on living like this, and for the first time, the politburo told the
0:38:18 > 0:38:20truth about what life was like in the dreadful place and everyone in
0:38:20 > 0:38:23that cinema was weeping because finally they saw the truth being
0:38:23 > 0:38:26told about the dreadful anti-civilisation in which they had
0:38:26 > 0:38:30been taught to live for so long. The idea we should celebrate it revive
0:38:30 > 0:38:34it seems to me to be verging on the obscene.George, one interesting
0:38:34 > 0:38:39question about this of course, whilst there are events going on in
0:38:39 > 0:38:43London and across the UK to mark this centenary, it is not being
0:38:43 > 0:38:46celebrated in Russia.I was in Russia a couple of weeks ago. There
0:38:46 > 0:38:51is a big debate about whether it ought to be, and many people are
0:38:51 > 0:38:55celebrating it...Vladimir Putin is not. He would want to ignore it.But
0:38:55 > 0:39:00the Communist Party is the second biggest party in Russia. And it is
0:39:00 > 0:39:06the ruling party in China, which, with respect, is not a separate
0:39:06 > 0:39:08thing, because China is continuing the Russian Revolution and doing
0:39:08 > 0:39:13rather better at it than the Russians did, but there are many
0:39:13 > 0:39:17people, particularly older, that is true, who think that the era of the
0:39:17 > 0:39:23Soviet Union was better than the very cold period of capitalism that
0:39:23 > 0:39:30succeeded it. So half the world followed for a time the red flag,
0:39:30 > 0:39:37the red banner of Leninism. No one will do so again. Leninism of the
0:39:37 > 0:39:41kind that Peter used to proselytise is certainly not coming back, but
0:39:41 > 0:39:47Marxism is going to live on.Let's hope not.Thank you both, gentlemen,
0:39:47 > 0:39:49for coming on to speak about that.
0:39:49 > 0:39:50It's coming up to 11.40am.
0:39:50 > 0:39:51You're watching the Sunday Politics.
0:39:51 > 0:39:54Coming up on the programme:
0:39:54 > 0:39:57We've taken the moodbox to where else but bonfire night celebrations.
0:39:57 > 0:40:00We've taken the moodbox to where else but bonfire night celebrations?
0:40:00 > 0:40:02It wasn't just Westminster that had the fireworks this week.
0:40:02 > 0:40:04We're asking people in Guildford in Surrey,
0:40:04 > 0:40:05does Theresa May have control of her Government and her party?
0:40:12 > 0:40:15Welcome to Sunday Politics South, my name's Peter Henley.
0:40:15 > 0:40:20On today's show passengers from Dorset to London
0:40:20 > 0:40:24are being offered faster trains but less frequently and they won't
0:40:24 > 0:40:26stop at so many smaller stations.
0:40:26 > 0:40:30Perhaps not surprisingly, they're not happy.
0:40:30 > 0:40:31More on that shortly.
0:40:31 > 0:40:33First let's meet the two politicians here for
0:40:33 > 0:40:35the duration of the programme.
0:40:35 > 0:40:43Penny Mordauntis the Conservative MP for Portsmouth North,
0:40:43 > 0:40:45andTony Pageis the Labour deputy leader
0:40:45 > 0:40:51of Reading Borough Council. Welcome both.
0:40:51 > 0:40:55A survey of local councillors has said that four in ten do not have
0:40:55 > 0:41:03the money to meet one or more statutory directive to children.
0:41:03 > 0:41:07Local authorities are being asked to take on too much.My role,
0:41:07 > 0:41:10particularly looking at disabled people, which is the other part of
0:41:10 > 0:41:15what I do, I'm focusing on children with learning disabilities, looking
0:41:15 > 0:41:19at what provision is being made for them, and also, as they progress
0:41:19 > 0:41:24through childhood and out into the world of work, what their employment
0:41:24 > 0:41:31rates are, and what support they are given. If they are not given the
0:41:31 > 0:41:34right education and independent living support, that means there
0:41:34 > 0:41:38will not be able to reach their full potential. Employment rate is
0:41:38 > 0:41:45usually less than 6%. If given both those things, employment rate rises
0:41:45 > 0:41:50to 86%.Local council have been squeezed too hard. If they cannot
0:41:50 > 0:41:57provide statutory services...? Children services are protected in a
0:41:57 > 0:42:01way that other social care is not, we have just set up across
0:42:01 > 0:42:05government task force to look at the whole issue of social care, which
0:42:05 > 0:42:12has been missing for too long. We need to look at not just the funding
0:42:12 > 0:42:18for that, ensure it is properly funded, but ensure that when we have
0:42:18 > 0:42:21services we can allow innovation to take place. If we commission for one
0:42:21 > 0:42:26hour of care, all you do... You are constantly driving down the quality
0:42:26 > 0:42:31and the cost of that unit of care. What we need to do is start
0:42:31 > 0:42:34commissioning for innovation and you get better services, better value
0:42:34 > 0:42:40for money.Innovation, Tony Paige, have you got enough money to meet
0:42:40 > 0:42:44the current demand?I hope the chance that takes on board in budget
0:42:44 > 0:42:47preparations points being made, because we have statutory
0:42:47 > 0:42:52responsibilities and we have to take children into care, and when we do,
0:42:52 > 0:42:57the cost must be met, a budget can be blown apart if you have the four,
0:42:57 > 0:43:00five, six children into care, sometimes costing four, £5,000 a
0:43:00 > 0:43:07week. What takes the hit, discretionary services. That put
0:43:07 > 0:43:15real pressure on councils. There is a fly, constantly attacking you, I
0:43:15 > 0:43:19must say. But, getting back to the issue...!LAUGHTER.
0:43:19 > 0:43:24That is an issue that Philip Hammond needs to take on board, this is
0:43:24 > 0:43:30being made to ministers nationally, this point, by the LTA. We cannot
0:43:30 > 0:43:33continue it with a situation where statutory duties remain unchanged,
0:43:33 > 0:43:38and it is right we have those responsibilities, but when budget
0:43:38 > 0:43:42pressures are suddenly blown apart...You have got the fly, now,
0:43:42 > 0:43:46we should send it to Philip Hammond(!)that is something the
0:43:46 > 0:43:50Chancellor has really got to take on board, seriously.More money in the
0:43:50 > 0:43:57budget, yes or no? Do you know? Well, actually...What about
0:43:57 > 0:44:01Universal Credit.We have budgets that are rising, what we also have,
0:44:01 > 0:44:08and it is not children, it is adult social care, we have rising demand,
0:44:08 > 0:44:13and what we have to do is in the future, we have to take this
0:44:13 > 0:44:17opportunity to be really realistic about, what do we want to see, and
0:44:17 > 0:44:22what do we need to do to enable that to happen.We need certainty over
0:44:22 > 0:44:26funding, I know it is not penny's department but the government
0:44:26 > 0:44:29started the process about possible business rates retention, that seems
0:44:29 > 0:44:34to have gone off the boil. A number of us face no grants in government
0:44:34 > 0:44:38by 2020, that is the projection we have been given. We were told
0:44:38 > 0:44:42business rates retention would be a magic bullet, and all of that has
0:44:42 > 0:44:48gone very quiet. We need the government to step forward to step
0:44:48 > 0:44:51forward around the funding of local government issues on the next few
0:44:51 > 0:44:54months.
0:44:56 > 0:44:59It's hardly a blinding revelation that our roads
0:44:59 > 0:45:03are getting more congested,
0:45:03 > 0:45:07according to the local government association
0:45:07 > 0:45:09the average motorist spends the equivalent of a week
0:45:09 > 0:45:10every year sat in traffic.
0:45:10 > 0:45:13And now the RAC has done a survey of how the view looks
0:45:13 > 0:45:15through the window when we're waiting to inch forward.
0:45:15 > 0:45:18VOICEOVER: According to the RAC's survey of nearly 1800 drivers,
0:45:18 > 0:45:2061% say that congestion and journey times have got worse
0:45:20 > 0:45:22on our motorways in the last year.
0:45:22 > 0:45:24Motorways make up 1% of the country's roads but account
0:45:24 > 0:45:26for more than a fifth of all journeys.
0:45:26 > 0:45:28Getting around town is also seen to have worsened,
0:45:28 > 0:45:32with 55% reckoning that urban roads are busier and slower.
0:45:32 > 0:45:35It's not just anecdotal either, the government's own figures show
0:45:35 > 0:45:39we drove over 252 billion miles last year, up 2.2% on the year before
0:45:39 > 0:45:49and the highest ever number of road miles.
0:45:53 > 0:45:56STUDIO: Joining us from our London studio isNick Lyesfrom the RAC.
0:45:56 > 0:45:59Thank you for joining us, you do this survey regularly, it seems
0:45:59 > 0:46:04people really have got fed up with waiting so long on roads.Certainly
0:46:04 > 0:46:09when we do the survey, annual survey, and what we have found is
0:46:09 > 0:46:15that concern about congestion is actually increasing. In 2015, 18%
0:46:15 > 0:46:21said it was a significant concern for them. This year, it has passed
0:46:21 > 0:46:2725%, it is 26%. It is going up that league table of top concerns and
0:46:27 > 0:46:32starting to mix in with other things like potholes. It is starting to
0:46:32 > 0:46:36become a significant concern and it is not surprising because we have
0:46:36 > 0:46:40record numbers of vehicles on our roads now.Technology will come to
0:46:40 > 0:46:46our rescue, isn't it, we are not far off Peak car, surely, we will have
0:46:46 > 0:46:54self driving cars, we will have them move towards electric, in pollution
0:46:54 > 0:46:57terms -- peak car. . As well as smart motorways and junction
0:46:57 > 0:47:01improvements, surely that will solve things for us.We have a significant
0:47:01 > 0:47:04problem now that needs to be dealt with very soon. There are some
0:47:04 > 0:47:08things we can certainly start looking at. Are we optimising
0:47:08 > 0:47:13traffic flow in city centres. Traffic lights sequencing, is that
0:47:13 > 0:47:17as good as it could be? Are we making more use of variable speed
0:47:17 > 0:47:20limits on motorways which can help to control traffic flow slightly
0:47:20 > 0:47:24better. There are certain things we can be doing now. The government
0:47:24 > 0:47:30certainly has invested about £50 million over the course of the last
0:47:30 > 0:47:34five years, I've come of course, the problem is, when you are investing
0:47:34 > 0:47:37that money, you create more roadworks to create the extra
0:47:37 > 0:47:42capacity... At the moment it is short-term pain for long-term gain.
0:47:42 > 0:47:47Do you speak up for public transport to the extent that, someone took the
0:47:47 > 0:47:52train sometimes, HS2, everything that is going, Will Rhodes be
0:47:52 > 0:47:56clearer?There is a capacity issue, what we find when we survey drivers,
0:47:56 > 0:48:00there is some 55% of drivers wanting to actually use public transport
0:48:00 > 0:48:05more often, but they tell us that the problem is that it is neither
0:48:05 > 0:48:10convenient nor affordable. And, it generally tends to take a lot longer
0:48:10 > 0:48:15than if they took their vehicle. At the moment it is not a practical
0:48:15 > 0:48:18solution.That is the check and balance, if roads get more crowded,
0:48:18 > 0:48:24that will persuade people to use other transport more?Potentially,
0:48:24 > 0:48:28yes, where is the point where people say, enough is enough.Are we
0:48:28 > 0:48:32reaching that point, our people so frustrated that they will find other
0:48:32 > 0:48:37ways?I'm not too sure that we are there yet, there is still a
0:48:37 > 0:48:41significant number of people that are using a vehicle to do journeys
0:48:41 > 0:48:45even under five miles, certainly if you are doing your weekly food shop,
0:48:45 > 0:48:49it is much more convenient to use your vehicle. People generally tell
0:48:49 > 0:48:52is now that they are as reliant on their vehicle as they were five
0:48:52 > 0:48:58years ago.You are a big fan of public transport, roads are blocked
0:48:58 > 0:49:02and choked, that is not such a bad thing if it persuade bus companies
0:49:02 > 0:49:06do have more people.There is an element of that obviously but one
0:49:06 > 0:49:10cannot rely on congestion just to solve the problem. It needs
0:49:10 > 0:49:13investment in public transport. Reading has one of the finest bus
0:49:13 > 0:49:17services in the country, constantly winning awards, and a good railway
0:49:17 > 0:49:22service.Cutting pollution in North Reading as well.And we are
0:49:22 > 0:49:27rejigging them, not cutting them.-- cutting service in North Reading has
0:49:27 > 0:49:31caused problems.It means literally different roads, that is what it
0:49:31 > 0:49:36means, and different services, which you have to do to recognise changes
0:49:36 > 0:49:43in local circumstances. And...Cycle lane, bus lane, all those other good
0:49:43 > 0:49:48things you are doing in Reading, it squeezes traffic down even harder,
0:49:48 > 0:49:52even more problems getting from have is across the other side of town.
0:49:52 > 0:49:56Bus lanes in Reading, we have more per mile outside of London than any
0:49:56 > 0:49:59other city in the country, bus lanes are created by using either central
0:49:59 > 0:50:03reservation space or where we have wide pavements and do not compromise
0:50:03 > 0:50:08pedestrian safety. We are not reducing existing road capacity,
0:50:08 > 0:50:12that is an important point to make. I see some cycle lanes squeezing
0:50:12 > 0:50:16traffic... We need more money, again, don't we, Philip Hammond,
0:50:16 > 0:50:21come on, surely!There is more money going into this, I'm from
0:50:21 > 0:50:27Portsmouth, congestion, and actually parking issues, which are a blight
0:50:27 > 0:50:31on the quality-of-life, they are the biggest breaks, I think, in us
0:50:31 > 0:50:34growing further in the economy, growing in Portsmouth more. We have
0:50:34 > 0:50:39to do lots of different things. There is no magic or silver bullet
0:50:39 > 0:50:44into this. For example, a lot of development going on in Portsmouth,
0:50:44 > 0:50:47with land we have brought back into use. How about having some of those
0:50:47 > 0:50:52developments around car pulls games. There is lots of other options we
0:50:52 > 0:50:59have out there instead of a couple of cars per household and that. --
0:50:59 > 0:51:06car pool scheme. Cycle hire, that is something we can do, looks to expand
0:51:06 > 0:51:12them. And we do need proper cycle lanes, we do need quiet cycle lanes,
0:51:12 > 0:51:16through the city, but critically, we also need good quality commuter
0:51:16 > 0:51:21routes. If people are going to give up their cars and cycle to work,
0:51:21 > 0:51:26they need to be safe but on speedy routes.We also need clean vehicles,
0:51:26 > 0:51:32I was glad to see the survey that recognition that air quality is a
0:51:32 > 0:51:35major issue. The government needs to look at something like a vehicle
0:51:35 > 0:51:41scrappage scheme, which has worked in the past for some categories and
0:51:41 > 0:51:43is needed to incentivise.And incentivise electric bike 's, would
0:51:43 > 0:51:48you go for that?I think that there is a lot of things... The local
0:51:48 > 0:51:53authority is looking at this in Portsmouth, and indeed, they are
0:51:53 > 0:51:56asking elsewhere -- there are schemes elsewhere which offer
0:51:56 > 0:52:00incentives and paybacks for people who take up the options.All good
0:52:00 > 0:52:05ideas, and the same from you as well, thank you very much.
0:52:06 > 0:52:08You'd normally expect a new rail franchise holder to be
0:52:08 > 0:52:09offering extra services,
0:52:09 > 0:52:11but under proposals currently out for consultation
0:52:11 > 0:52:12from South Western Railways,
0:52:12 > 0:52:14direct trains from Weymouth to Waterloo could drop
0:52:14 > 0:52:16from the current two per hour to one,
0:52:16 > 0:52:19and some of the smaller stations on the line could lose
0:52:19 > 0:52:20direct services altogether.
0:52:20 > 0:52:22As our Dorset reporter Tristan Pascoe has been finding out,
0:52:22 > 0:52:24it's not exactly on track for popularity with
0:52:24 > 0:52:26the travelling public.
0:52:42 > 0:52:46It is a vital artery, linking the south coast with the capital, but as
0:52:46 > 0:52:50I discovered a couple of years ago, the trip from Dorset to London is
0:52:50 > 0:52:53not such a great British Railway journey...
0:52:57 > 0:53:01At more than three hours, it is quicker to get to Liverpool or York
0:53:01 > 0:53:06from London, then it is to get the Weymouth, fast forward two years, a
0:53:06 > 0:53:09new franchise holder, south-western railways, and the promise of faster
0:53:09 > 0:53:14train journeys. The proposed 2018 timetable currently under
0:53:14 > 0:53:17consultation sees winners and losers, there will be a faster
0:53:17 > 0:53:20direct train, shaving around 20 minutes from the current journey
0:53:20 > 0:53:26time, but also few of them, going from two direct trains per hour down
0:53:26 > 0:53:29to only one. Not surprisingly, it has not gone down well with
0:53:29 > 0:53:34passengers.I think that is really poor service and what I don't
0:53:34 > 0:53:39understand, new franchise, why does the government give a franchise to a
0:53:39 > 0:53:42new company that is going to cut the services which are really good?Your
0:53:42 > 0:53:48message?My messages, don't mess around with it. You have been hired
0:53:48 > 0:53:53to give us good service, that is what we want.The man used to be in
0:53:53 > 0:53:58charge of trains in this part of the world, under the previous franchise
0:53:58 > 0:54:02holder, is not impressed.The proposed timetable in my opinion is
0:54:02 > 0:54:09vast the inferior to the present service. The major stations west of
0:54:09 > 0:54:13Poole will lose 50% of through services to London, everyone during
0:54:13 > 0:54:17the day will lose the through service through Clapham Junction,
0:54:17 > 0:54:21and it is replaced by a stopping service between Weymouth and
0:54:21 > 0:54:24Portsmouth, offering an inferior journey time than that which is
0:54:24 > 0:54:29currently possible by changing at Southampton. For most people in my
0:54:29 > 0:54:32view it is a bad deal.And it continues, a trade-off, faster
0:54:32 > 0:54:38trains but with fewer stops, so, smaller stations like these, could
0:54:38 > 0:54:43lose direct trains to Waterloo altogether.Well, I will have to
0:54:43 > 0:54:46find alternative means, because I don't want to wait around for an
0:54:46 > 0:54:51hour for another train. I will park somewhere nearer to London and drive
0:54:51 > 0:54:57back.One local councillor says that a reduced service is bad news for
0:54:57 > 0:55:00the local economy.I think there is going to be a huge economic impact,
0:55:00 > 0:55:06we have spent the last decade trying to build up Dorset as a can-do
0:55:06 > 0:55:09place, a place to come to do business, to get the right worklife
0:55:09 > 0:55:15balance, and this, this proposal, is going to cut that so much, and I
0:55:15 > 0:55:20know it will certainly make me think about travelling up to London, for
0:55:20 > 0:55:24meetings, if I cannot get safely back to park stone, what we have at
0:55:24 > 0:55:29the moment is not fantastic, but it suits us, and we can manage it, all
0:55:29 > 0:55:34the way from Weymouth up to Waterloo. So if they start to cut
0:55:34 > 0:55:40that, that is going to impact really hard.This is not just about people
0:55:40 > 0:55:43who live in the area going away, it is also about people who want to
0:55:43 > 0:55:48come here, and I think, if you come from London, after all, the most
0:55:48 > 0:55:51important economic up in the country, and find that in reality
0:55:51 > 0:55:55there is only one train an hour to Weymouth instead of two, I think
0:55:55 > 0:55:59that is a big turn-off, frankly. South-western railways declined to
0:55:59 > 0:56:04take part in the programme said it would be meeting passengers to
0:56:04 > 0:56:10address concerns at a number of forum events along the line. For
0:56:10 > 0:56:16some passengers, the message is clear:the approaching train is not
0:56:16 > 0:56:20scheduled to stop at this station.
0:56:20 > 0:56:24Looks like we'll be getting a bit more of that. You don't think it is
0:56:24 > 0:56:32a done deal.This is a consultation. This is a consultation, the film has
0:56:32 > 0:56:36just profiled it, personally, as you know, I have campaigned on better
0:56:36 > 0:56:41rail franchises, it is the only way to get competition, that point when
0:56:41 > 0:56:46you are signing up...This is not a good start for a new operator.They
0:56:46 > 0:56:50are consulting, I suspect they are looking at what they can do...Get
0:56:50 > 0:56:56away with!Well, no, they are making best use... As we would not want to
0:56:56 > 0:57:00see those services cut, I'm pleased we have more seats and we will have
0:57:00 > 0:57:04proper rolling stock on mainline routes, unlike what we have had to
0:57:04 > 0:57:10suffer. Terrible things commuters have had to endure, using suburban
0:57:10 > 0:57:13rail stop.I remember you measuring the width of the seats and making a
0:57:13 > 0:57:19point about it!South West trains own ergonomic study said that only
0:57:19 > 0:57:2370 descent of the population could fit into their seats, providing you
0:57:23 > 0:57:27did not take into account their arms! It was crazy. We need to plus
0:57:27 > 0:57:32two seating, if you are doing mainline routes, travelling from
0:57:32 > 0:57:35Portsmouth Southampton to London. Many more seats, tens of thousands
0:57:35 > 0:57:41of more seats, new services, and it will be quicker. That is good but we
0:57:41 > 0:57:45must ensure that we are catering for everyone. Some of these rural
0:57:45 > 0:57:50stations as well, you know, they need a good service.Is this an
0:57:50 > 0:57:54example of the franchise system working or not?I don't think a
0:57:54 > 0:57:57franchise system is a particularly commendable one, you invite
0:57:57 > 0:58:01companies, state-owned foreign companies to bid for franchises,
0:58:01 > 0:58:06they overpaid, and then they find they have two... The only way they
0:58:06 > 0:58:10can pay the premium payments to the DST and the Treasury is to make
0:58:10 > 0:58:14savings they were not originally anticipating. And then you get into
0:58:14 > 0:58:19the difficulties that we are seeing here. I would like to see a much
0:58:19 > 0:58:27more planned centralised regime for franchising, which recognises
0:58:27 > 0:58:31that...Well, you are for nationalisation.Know, as the
0:58:31 > 0:58:35franchises come up they would be taken back into public ownership,
0:58:35 > 0:58:43one of the most accessible examples, the East Coast, National Express and
0:58:43 > 0:58:46about the franchise, publicly operated, producing 1 billion for
0:58:46 > 0:58:50the Treasury, and still, for misplaced dogmatic reasons, the
0:58:50 > 0:58:54government insisted it be franchised again. It can be made to work. It is
0:58:54 > 0:58:59not renationalisation, the old BR model but we must have the central
0:58:59 > 0:59:04control that the DST has waved away, and allows to be fragmented through
0:59:04 > 0:59:08this... 28 franchises in this country, that is a nonsense!Lets
0:59:08 > 0:59:12see how much it works out in the new trains arriving in a couple of
0:59:12 > 0:59:17years.
0:59:17 > 0:59:20Now our regular round-up of the political week in the South in 60
0:59:20 > 0:59:27seconds. The aircraft carrier Queen Elizabeth left Portsmouth on more
0:59:27 > 0:59:31sea trials, she has been undergoing engineering work. The next big
0:59:31 > 0:59:35milestone, getting some planes to fly from her. In Oxford, still
0:59:35 > 0:59:39waiting for a commercial investor for a major flood scheme, project to
0:59:39 > 0:59:45protect 1200 homes and businesses still formally and pounds short, a
0:59:45 > 0:59:50month until a funding deadline expires. Protests as Hampshire
0:59:50 > 0:59:55council has decided on £140 million of cuts is, asking the government to
0:59:55 > 0:59:59let them charge elderly people for bus passes and everyone else who
0:59:59 > 1:00:05uses waste tips.It will cause more fly-tipping, and congestion.Labour
1:00:05 > 1:00:08MP Anneliese Dodds is calling for an Oxford man charged with being a
1:00:08 > 1:00:12member of so-called Islamic State to be returned to the UK. Jack let's
1:00:12 > 1:00:18was captured by Kurdish fighters. Reading base Yellow Pages is now
1:00:18 > 1:00:24digital only. -- Jack Letts. It will publish its final version of its
1:00:24 > 1:00:28business directory in 2019.
1:00:28 > 1:00:32STUDIO: Magnificent aircraft carrier leaving Portsmouth for the first
1:00:32 > 1:00:37time. And, the new Secretary of State, moving in, to take over the
1:00:37 > 1:00:41Ministry of Defence, should have been a woman, shouldn't it? And
1:00:41 > 1:00:45Milton from Guildford could have done this, Harriet Baldwin, she
1:00:45 > 1:00:50could have done this. Indeed, you were tipped for the job.One day, a
1:00:50 > 1:00:56woman will hold that post...Would you like it?Who wouldn't, fantastic
1:00:56 > 1:01:00job, but anybody who cares about defence at this time must support
1:01:00 > 1:01:04the new Secretary of State. Difficult job to ensure that we
1:01:04 > 1:01:09deliver the 20 14th -- 2019 STS are, of which that carrier was a part,
1:01:09 > 1:01:12they need to get behind Gavin and make sure he's doing a really good
1:01:12 > 1:01:16job. -- SDSR.A lot of people say that he does not understand it, he
1:01:16 > 1:01:21has never run a major government department.Are you suggesting that
1:01:21 > 1:01:25ministers are appointed on the basis of only their experience.Anna
1:01:25 > 1:01:29Soubry says that he picked himself a plum job, Sarah Wollaston, there are
1:01:29 > 1:01:33times when you are offered a job, it would be better to advise that there
1:01:33 > 1:01:41is someone more suited to the role, better spearing.Someone going into
1:01:41 > 1:01:43parliament and government could end up with any department, what you
1:01:43 > 1:01:47will do as a minister is make decisions, and you are very reliant
1:01:47 > 1:01:56on good advice being given to you. Having worked at the MoD, I can tell
1:01:56 > 1:01:58you, it is a fantastic department with amazing individuals working in
1:01:58 > 1:02:03it. He will have a huge amount of advice and support. As
1:02:03 > 1:02:07parliamentarians, we need to ensure that he is doing the best he can,
1:02:07 > 1:02:12and we need to get behind him and support him to do that.As Theresa
1:02:12 > 1:02:16May got strong control over this? Without intruding on private grief,
1:02:16 > 1:02:22the fact is, Michael Fallon was a very experienced politician, I am no
1:02:22 > 1:02:26conservative, but the fact is, he was widely respected, a very
1:02:26 > 1:02:31well-established individual, as Secretary of State for Defence, and
1:02:31 > 1:02:37inevitably, whatever attribute Kevin Williams and has got, it is going to
1:02:37 > 1:02:41take some while to reach the level of expertise that Michael Fallon
1:02:41 > 1:02:47brought to a crucial job.With a really difficult intro.Indeed, that
1:02:47 > 1:02:51is the reality of the situation. I will not make any further comment,
1:02:51 > 1:02:55obviously. Penny would have liked the job, I am sure, and from what I
1:02:55 > 1:03:02have read, she may have done a splendid job of it. Better luck next
1:03:02 > 1:03:03time!
1:03:03 > 1:03:06That is where the programme ends. We could do with
1:03:07 > 1:03:10All right, and at that point we have to end it there.
1:03:10 > 1:03:12My thanks to Rosena and Andrew, and with that it's back to Sarah.
1:03:12 > 1:03:15It's been a tricky week for Theresa May -
1:03:15 > 1:03:15again, you might think.
1:03:15 > 1:03:18She's lost a Cabinet minister and been forced into a reshuffle
1:03:18 > 1:03:21which did little for party unity, to say nothing of losing a Commons
1:03:21 > 1:03:24vote on Brexit and yet more reports of fireworks in Cabinet meetings -
1:03:24 > 1:03:26this time apparently over housing.
1:03:26 > 1:03:28So, is the Prime Minister's time in office going with a bang
1:03:28 > 1:03:30or more of a whimper?
1:03:30 > 1:03:31Well, we sent Ellie Price
1:03:31 > 1:03:33and the entirely unscientific Sunday Politics moodbox
1:03:33 > 1:03:35to Conservative-held Surrey, to find out.
1:03:35 > 1:03:38ALL:Three, two, one.
1:03:38 > 1:03:44# Ignite the light and let it shine...#
1:03:45 > 1:03:48It's a tale of lit fuses, plots, conspiracy, treachery,
1:03:48 > 1:03:52but enough of the recent goings on in the Conservative Party,
1:03:52 > 1:03:56it's firework night here in Guildford and we're asking,
1:03:56 > 1:03:58does Theresa May have control of her Government and her party?
1:03:58 > 1:03:59Yes or no?
1:03:59 > 1:04:05# Baby you're a firework...#
1:04:05 > 1:04:07With all the scandals in Government at the moment
1:04:07 > 1:04:10and Brexit seems to be dragging on a little bit longer than we thought.
1:04:10 > 1:04:14So, at the moment, I don't think she is in control.
1:04:16 > 1:04:20She's too many people sniping at her back, really.
1:04:20 > 1:04:21Do you think Theresa May's in control?
1:04:21 > 1:04:23I think she's in control.
1:04:23 > 1:04:25She's in a good job having a tough time.
1:04:25 > 1:04:26No, I don't.
1:04:26 > 1:04:27I think she's a mess.
1:04:27 > 1:04:30Even when you read her body language when she's being interviewed
1:04:30 > 1:04:33by people, she doesn't seem like she's in control.
1:04:33 > 1:04:37I think she has poor advisers.
1:04:39 > 1:04:43I'm going to put it in the "yes".
1:04:43 > 1:04:46I do think she's struggling but, I still hope, still think she has
1:04:46 > 1:04:49a bit of a grip on them.
1:04:49 > 1:04:52The Queen is England's role.
1:04:52 > 1:04:54It's her birth right.
1:04:54 > 1:04:57She is England's role of this country.
1:04:57 > 1:05:00I'm going to vote for Theresa May.
1:05:00 > 1:05:03I don't think there's anyone who could do a better job.
1:05:03 > 1:05:06I think she's had a bit of a poisoned chalice with Brexit but
1:05:06 > 1:05:08I think she could have done better.
1:05:08 > 1:05:10The money's not going to where it needs to go.
1:05:10 > 1:05:12I think she should resign, really.
1:05:12 > 1:05:15I feel a bit sorry for her, actually.
1:05:15 > 1:05:16I think she's been witch-hunted a little bit.
1:05:16 > 1:05:20She's doing her best.
1:05:20 > 1:05:22With everything that's going on with the Cabinet at the
1:05:22 > 1:05:26moment, I think the Conservative Party is in a real mess, actually.
1:05:26 > 1:05:28Very disappointed.
1:05:28 > 1:05:34Well, you get bickering in all parts not just the Conservative Party.
1:05:34 > 1:05:36And that's just sort of par for the course.
1:05:36 > 1:05:39But I'm sure she'll hold everybody together
1:05:39 > 1:05:41despite the current difficulties.
1:05:41 > 1:05:43The Tories weren't in control when they had the referendum
1:05:43 > 1:05:46in the first place for the euro.
1:05:46 > 1:05:48We've had two years of complete chaos.
1:05:48 > 1:05:52I don't see an end to it.
1:05:52 > 1:05:54Well, I seem to have acquired a few new friends.
1:05:54 > 1:05:57The oohs and ahs are over and so the moodbox
1:05:57 > 1:06:01and the result is...
1:06:01 > 1:06:02No.
1:06:02 > 1:06:04The majority of people here in Guildford
1:06:04 > 1:06:06don't think Theresa May is in control.
1:06:07 > 1:06:10CHEERING
1:06:10 > 1:06:13That was Ellie with the entirely unscientific moodbox, and thanks
1:06:13 > 1:06:20to Bushy Hill Junior School in Guildford for having her along.
1:06:20 > 1:06:24Let's put the Sorbol question to our panel. Equally unscientific but all
1:06:24 > 1:06:27seasoned Westminster watchers. Is Theresa May in control of her
1:06:27 > 1:06:33Government at the moment or is all of this sex harassment allegations
1:06:33 > 1:06:37swimming around loosening her grip? Depends what you mean by in control.
1:06:37 > 1:06:44All Prime Ministers have a degree of control. They retain the power much
1:06:44 > 1:06:48tat wrongage as we saw with her reshuffle. Didn't go down well with
1:06:48 > 1:06:53her MPs but she did it. You can't be fully in control of these situations
1:06:53 > 1:06:56in effectively what is a hung Parliament. If she won a land sheep
1:06:56 > 1:07:00in the election she would have the authority to do what she wanted. She
1:07:00 > 1:07:04could float over something like this. Stories like this, you could
1:07:04 > 1:07:08say she's perfectly suited for it, the vicar's daughter, the church
1:07:08 > 1:07:12goer, to sort it out. It is much more complicated than that. I don't
1:07:12 > 1:07:15think she will be able to get a full grip of it. There are some practical
1:07:15 > 1:07:20things that need to happen that will happen. I remember with back to
1:07:20 > 1:07:24basics and John Major, that equally vague scandal, what was back to
1:07:24 > 1:07:30basics about? It was still running months afterwards, stories about a
1:07:30 > 1:07:34minister having an affair. This is different. I can see it will be
1:07:34 > 1:07:38impossible for her to fully get to grips with it.Does it provide an
1:07:38 > 1:07:41opportunity for Theresa May to be seen to be taking really serious
1:07:41 > 1:07:45action, trying to root out a bad culture in Westminster and therefore
1:07:45 > 1:07:49get some political credit for it? That opportunity was available to
1:07:49 > 1:07:55her all of last week and she hasn't taken it. What's remarkable for me
1:07:55 > 1:07:58is the near complete breakdown in discipline in the higher ranks the
1:07:58 > 1:08:03Tory Party. It is extraordinary you have Cabinet level ministers who are
1:08:03 > 1:08:07not supporting their colleagues. Ministers and former ministers
1:08:07 > 1:08:10giving interviews in which they slag off their former colleagues. It is
1:08:10 > 1:08:15an absolute unholy mess. There is no sense that she is gripping this. Or
1:08:15 > 1:08:19has any particular solution. I think we can have a lot of sympathy for
1:08:19 > 1:08:23her in terms of finding a solution. How on earth do you grip a problem
1:08:23 > 1:08:31like this where you're talking about apparently an indefinite period of
1:08:31 > 1:08:34retrospective examination of potential faults. 15 years is no
1:08:34 > 1:08:38longer too historic for somebody to dredge up some small thing that may
1:08:38 > 1:08:42or may not have happened to them. It is very difficult for her. But she's
1:08:42 > 1:08:49being battered around by events. Where does this story go next?I
1:08:49 > 1:08:53think the whip's office on every party, Tories, Labour, Liberal
1:08:53 > 1:08:56Democrats, SNP all have their own whipping operations. That seems to
1:08:56 > 1:09:01be the place of it really. This is because, where do we draw the line?
1:09:01 > 1:09:05Going forward what mechanisms are put in place to top this helping
1:09:05 > 1:09:09again. To take allegations seriously, report them and
1:09:09 > 1:09:14investigate them independently. Or is there a bigger job to go back
1:09:14 > 1:09:19into the past retrospective, who knew what when as Nia said about
1:09:19 > 1:09:23Kelvin Hopkins. This is a Shadow Defence Secretary saying what did
1:09:23 > 1:09:28the Labour Party leader know about Kelvin Hopkins' allegations when he
1:09:28 > 1:09:32promoted him? Theresa May is unable to do the retrospective bit. She's
1:09:32 > 1:09:37simply too weak. I asked this of Number Ten last week. Why are you
1:09:37 > 1:09:41not more front-foot the on this. They said they would be if they
1:09:41 > 1:09:45possibly could be. She's running a minority Government. She cannot be
1:09:45 > 1:09:50seen to be going after a witch-hunt on her own people. So, I think this
1:09:50 > 1:09:58goes on. Enof thebly what the whips new -- inevitably what the whips
1:09:58 > 1:10:07knew will be parment. Amber Rudd did the same thing on Andrew Marr.They
1:10:07 > 1:10:13are being precise about the fact they didn't know anything. Sarah
1:10:13 > 1:10:17Newton said she heard no allegations about her flock, the the MPs she was
1:10:17 > 1:10:23in charge of rather than rumours about any other Tories.Amber Rudd
1:10:23 > 1:10:29say, I do not recognise the more lurid allegations. What about the
1:10:29 > 1:10:33less lurid once? So, this smells very, very bad indeed.Jeremy
1:10:33 > 1:10:39Corbyn's going to have to answer some of these questions as well?
1:10:39 > 1:10:44Yeah, but the whip's thing is a red herring. Their remit is to get the
1:10:44 > 1:10:46vote out for the Government fundamentally. Everybody knows that.
1:10:46 > 1:10:50They are not there, it is one of the problems. They are not there to be
1:10:50 > 1:10:54moral guides to these MPs. They are there to win votes for the
1:10:54 > 1:10:59Government or the opposition if that becomes possible. And deal brutally
1:10:59 > 1:11:02with MPs to make sure they get out and vote. Of course they knew
1:11:02 > 1:11:07virtually everything. But whether they were obliged to act as moral
1:11:07 > 1:11:11guard yawns in these situations, I don't think they were. It was not
1:11:11 > 1:11:15part of their job. Maybe you need moral guardians in there but not the
1:11:15 > 1:11:20whips.Normally, less than three-weeks out from a budget that's
1:11:20 > 1:11:23what we'd been talking about. Dominating our conversation. Given
1:11:23 > 1:11:26that's set for November 22nd, is that an opportunity for the
1:11:26 > 1:11:31Government to seize back control of the story?Philip Hammond may be
1:11:31 > 1:11:34glad we're not spending too much time talking about the budget. It
1:11:34 > 1:11:39should be an opportunity for the Government to seize the agenda, draw
1:11:39 > 1:11:43a line under all of this. I think one of the very difficult as pects
1:11:43 > 1:11:47of this so-called scandal for the Government to manage is knowing
1:11:47 > 1:11:50quite how long it will run. In the normal scheme of things they lose
1:11:50 > 1:11:55steam after a couple of weeks. But there are so many potential gayses
1:11:55 > 1:11:59that could come out, it might run longer than that. Rather like the
1:11:59 > 1:12:03expenses scandal. But there is an opportunity at the budget to reset
1:12:03 > 1:12:08the' again da. I just don't think Philip Hammond will take it. I think
1:12:08 > 1:12:11he's a very caution Chancellor. At the moment, there is a feeling
1:12:11 > 1:12:17Theresa May's leadership is so weak it will be too dangerous for them to
1:12:17 > 1:12:22do anything particularly dram attic why. I expect a steady as you go
1:12:22 > 1:12:26budget where they will be hoping not to make any mistakes.You say there
1:12:26 > 1:12:32is disagreement in the Cabinet about what should be in the budget?
1:12:32 > 1:12:38Disagreement between the Chancellor and the Prime Minister. The
1:12:38 > 1:12:42witch-hunt is hiding a huge story which is the incredible dysfunction
1:12:42 > 1:12:45between Number Ten and number 11. Philip Hammond and Theresa May can't
1:12:45 > 1:12:50bear to be in the same room with each other let alone agreeing what's
1:12:50 > 1:12:54in the budget. It is coming down to housing. Everybody agrees it has to
1:12:54 > 1:13:00be the centrepiece of the budget. They have to get more houses built.
1:13:00 > 1:13:05Philip Hammond wands that bee deregulation. Theresa May wants to
1:13:05 > 1:13:08are borrow up to 50 billion merchandise more for the Government
1:13:08 > 1:13:09to build for themselves.
1:13:09 > 1:13:10That's all for today.
1:13:10 > 1:13:13There's no Sunday Politics next weekend
1:13:13 > 1:13:14while Parliament is in recess,
1:13:14 > 1:13:17but I'll be back here at 11am on BBC One in two weeks' time.
1:13:17 > 1:13:22Until then, bye bye.