:01:34. > :01:44.And in Wales: we will have the use of Alex Salmond, and Carwyn Jones
:01:44. > :01:44.
:01:44. > :29:50.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1685 seconds
:29:50. > :29:53.tells us independence is not an Good afternoon. Welcome for the
:29:53. > :29:59.first time to Sunday Politics Wales. Coming up: It's another election
:29:59. > :30:03.year. We will take a look at the key test for parties in May. I will
:30:03. > :30:07.be joined today by Labour's Nia Griffith, and the conservative Nick
:30:08. > :30:12.Ramsay. First, the debate surrounding the future of Scotland
:30:12. > :30:16.has dominated the political agenda over the last week. But any move
:30:16. > :30:23.from its current relationship with the UK will be felled here in Wales.
:30:23. > :30:27.I have been speaking to the First Minister Carwyn Jones, and began by
:30:27. > :30:32.asking him who should be in charge of the decision, the Scottish or UK
:30:32. > :30:36.government? This matter should be decided by the Scottish people.
:30:36. > :30:43.Legally the power lies with the UK government, but politically it is
:30:43. > :30:47.wise for the referendum to be called, and by the Scottish
:30:47. > :30:53.government. That is then a matter for the people of Scotland. I hope
:30:53. > :31:00.that Scotland remains within the UK. Why? Because it is useful to have
:31:00. > :31:10.four nations within the UK. We all act as counterbalances, and I think
:31:10. > :31:18.
:31:18. > :31:22.the UK would be worse off without The view seems to be expressed that
:31:22. > :31:26.if we do anything different in Wales, we are on the road to
:31:26. > :31:30.independence. That is a dangerous argument, because it is saying that
:31:30. > :31:34.devolution can never work. The people of Wales have faulted twice
:31:35. > :31:38.for devolution. As someone elected by the people of Wales, I have a
:31:38. > :31:48.mandate to take forward a programme for government in the way the
:31:48. > :31:49.
:31:49. > :31:53.Secretary of State does not. But saying on the one hand, you can do
:31:53. > :31:57.what you want in Wales, but if you do you must be some kind of
:31:57. > :32:02.separatist, is not a why his argument. You say you are eager to
:32:02. > :32:10.stand up for the interests of the people of Wales. You were very
:32:10. > :32:14.critical of David Cameron after the last summit, saying you are letting
:32:14. > :32:19.Wilstone by not having them at the top team of UK politics. If you do
:32:19. > :32:23.not like what he is giving you, you can walk a way. I argument is that
:32:23. > :32:28.their NAV -- has to be a government of a different colour in London.
:32:29. > :32:33.You do not say just walk away from the whole thing. I believe in the
:32:33. > :32:39.unity of the UK, but I have had my disagreements with the current UK
:32:39. > :32:47.government. It is important that we ensure that devolution works, it is
:32:47. > :32:51.important that there is not a huge amount of interference from UK
:32:51. > :32:57.government departments, and on a practical level we do get co-
:32:57. > :33:03.operation, particularly from bodies like U K t I, which have been
:33:03. > :33:06.helpful in helping us get investment in Wales. If there was a
:33:06. > :33:09."yes" vote for independence in Scotland, with that fundamentally
:33:09. > :33:16.change the relationship between Wales and the rest of the United to
:33:16. > :33:26.Kingdom? It would change the relationships between all parts of
:33:26. > :33:30.the United Kingdom. There would be a United Kingdom, of course, left.
:33:30. > :33:36.But there would have to be thought given as to what the constitution
:33:36. > :33:40.would look like, and the nature of representation within the UK.
:33:40. > :33:43.would you want to see us Wales's relationship was London? We would
:33:43. > :33:52.want to make sure that we had a sufficiently strong voice within
:33:52. > :33:55.the UK. We could not carry on with 550 MPs, with 40 from Wales and
:33:55. > :34:05.Northern Ireland. Ford would have to be given to how to ensure there
:34:05. > :34:07.
:34:07. > :34:11.was more of a balance. -- thought would have to be given. I do not
:34:11. > :34:18.accept that if Scotland leads that it is inevitable that other parts
:34:18. > :34:23.would want to leave, as well. there was a "yes" vote, with that
:34:23. > :34:27.call for further calls for devolution, even though it is not
:34:27. > :34:32.independent? Things would change, but not to the extent of Wales
:34:32. > :34:39.becoming independent. There would have to be a better definition of
:34:39. > :34:45.what was a power for the UK's. -- for the UK. These are all things
:34:45. > :34:48.that would come into play. should do not want? Let us not
:34:48. > :34:53.pretend it would be a good thing for Wales to become independent, it
:34:54. > :34:59.would not. We know it is not in her interests financially. Being part
:34:59. > :35:02.of the UK gives us a stronger voice on the world stage, and money is
:35:02. > :35:09.transferred from other parts of the UK into Wales. Let us not pretend
:35:09. > :35:13.it would be somehow easy for Wales to go the same way as Scotland. But
:35:13. > :35:21.it seems to me from the opinion polls and Scotland, that the
:35:21. > :35:24.likelihood would be a "no" vote. What worries me is the UK
:35:24. > :35:28.government must be extra ordinarily careful in not giving the
:35:28. > :35:32.impression it is trying to interfere in the timing and the
:35:32. > :35:35.question of the Scottish referendum. It is a matter for the people of
:35:35. > :35:39.Scotland. Thank you very much.
:35:39. > :35:45.Where is the UK going? Let us get to the heart of the question with
:35:45. > :35:49.Nia Griffith and Nick Ramsay. Is it only a matter of time before we see
:35:49. > :35:55.a break-up of the new? There are different circumstances in
:35:55. > :35:58.different countries. If I were in Scotland, I would have to ask what
:35:58. > :36:02.would happen to my savings and the Property iPhone, what would happen
:36:02. > :36:08.to my business? There are some serious questions that people in
:36:08. > :36:13.Scotland will be asking. -- property that I your own. They need
:36:13. > :36:19.to have discussion like this, the same way we have the convention in
:36:19. > :36:23.Wales before the referendum. There has been a lot of debate about
:36:23. > :36:25.whether David Cameron has been interfering in this. If Westminster
:36:25. > :36:31.politicians were telling politicians and Cardiff Bay, you
:36:31. > :36:35.would be the first to complain. Maybe not the first, but I am a
:36:35. > :36:40.great supporter of the United Kingdom. I think all the
:36:40. > :36:42.constituent parts are stronger together than we are a part. As the
:36:42. > :36:47.First Minister said, it is a matter for Scotland, but there would be
:36:47. > :36:50.such a bearing on the other parts of the UK that if David Cameron and
:36:50. > :36:55.did not take a position, and say that he wanted to get this issue
:36:55. > :37:00.sorted out, so the market knows where tears, and businesses know
:37:00. > :37:04.where they are, that would be strained. But surely the timing and
:37:04. > :37:08.the question being asked as a matter for Scottish people. It is a
:37:08. > :37:11.matter for Scotland ultimately where it wants to be. Gifted as a
:37:11. > :37:16.majority in Scotland for independence, it is up to them to
:37:16. > :37:20.decide that. -- if there is a majority in Scotland. There is also
:37:20. > :37:24.a duty on the UK government to make sure that in the meantime, before
:37:24. > :37:28.any referendum is held, that there is stability, and that the decision
:37:28. > :37:36.is put to the people. David Cameron says he believes the referendum
:37:36. > :37:40.should be held sooner than later. If Scotland decided to go it alone,
:37:40. > :37:44.it would be very hard for Labour to force his way back into government
:37:44. > :37:48.through the other three that were left. Do you see that Labour's hand
:37:48. > :37:52.could be forced on the issue of independence, bearing in mind that
:37:52. > :37:56.it would not want to be dictated to by a centre-right government from
:37:56. > :38:06.West minster? In the past we have had a Labour majority of MPs in
:38:06. > :38:07.
:38:07. > :38:11.England alone, so that argument can be put to one side. As far as I am
:38:11. > :38:21.concerned, the UK by its way above its weight on the international
:38:21. > :38:25.stage, and I am proud to be part of that. The influence we have had in
:38:25. > :38:30.the G8 and G20, those sorts of platforms, those are very important,
:38:30. > :38:33.and I see very much that we want to work together as a United Kingdom.
:38:33. > :38:40.As far as Scotland are concerned, people want to discuss the issues,
:38:40. > :38:45.of course, and they may choose to be independent, but we see
:38:45. > :38:49.ourselves stronger in the economic climate at the moment, when we are
:38:49. > :38:53.together, rather than apart. There are greater powers that could come
:38:53. > :39:00.to Wales and the future, fiscal powers. Many of those government
:39:00. > :39:03.are not to want. The commission are looking at it at the moment, and
:39:03. > :39:07.when they come back to us to see whether that is the sort of way
:39:07. > :39:10.they want to go, that is when we decide. What we need to do is get
:39:10. > :39:15.the right decisions made up the right level. Something practical to
:39:15. > :39:22.deal with -- some things are practical to deal with in Cardiff,
:39:22. > :39:26.and some in Brussels. The Welsh Conservatives have
:39:26. > :39:31.embraced devolution over the past few years, bearing in mind some
:39:31. > :39:40.people say it is a process, not an event. What would you like to see
:39:40. > :39:43.as being the next step on the devolution road in Wales? It was
:39:43. > :39:47.not us who came up with that saying, but you're right, we believe in
:39:47. > :39:56.accepting things as they are, and doing with the tools we have what
:39:56. > :39:59.we can to improve life. Whether it is going to be independence, devo
:39:59. > :40:09.max, or whether they go for some form of development along the
:40:09. > :40:16.devolution process, they are moving ahead. Are we behind them? No, the
:40:17. > :40:21.same person spoke about the symmetrical devolution, and Wales
:40:21. > :40:24.has a different situation and Scotland. I am not hearing any
:40:24. > :40:32.calls from anyone, politicians included, that the situation should
:40:32. > :40:39.be different with in Wales. We are very different country to Scotland,
:40:39. > :40:45.and it has a lot of interchange across the border. I think our
:40:45. > :40:50.relationship is right at the more money. Thank you very much.
:40:50. > :40:54.right at the moment. Wills's politicians are turning
:40:54. > :41:04.their minds to the elections in May. They will decide who is running
:41:04. > :41:05.
:41:05. > :41:08.public money for the next full years. -- four years. They will
:41:08. > :41:13.decide who will be running vital public services for the next four
:41:13. > :41:23.years cold --. But they will also be a key test of how the main
:41:23. > :41:25.
:41:26. > :41:30.parties are faring in the political Labour lost six councils, and
:41:30. > :41:35.Labour kept his majority in two. It regained its control in Bridgend,
:41:35. > :41:40.with help from independence. I lost a seat in 2008. They were very
:41:40. > :41:47.difficult elections for us. We're now in a very much better place for
:41:47. > :41:50.the elections. We are the only party who are on the front foot.
:41:50. > :41:59.Membership numbers are rising, organisation is very good, and I am
:41:59. > :42:09.feeling positive. Plaid Cymru felt pain in his -- its heartland four
:42:09. > :42:10.
:42:10. > :42:15.years ago. As the largest group in Carmarthenshire, it is hoping to be
:42:15. > :42:19.at the helm from a. Some of the most important services, in terms
:42:19. > :42:23.of the standard of life for people in Wales, are decided by local
:42:23. > :42:27.authorities. A very important election, and I hope the people of
:42:27. > :42:37.Wales come to vote. I hope we can persuade them that Plaid Cymru is
:42:37. > :42:40.
:42:40. > :42:43.offering them an option they have not looked at in the past.
:42:44. > :42:49.Conservative easily held Monmouth Show, and David Cameron went there
:42:49. > :42:53.to celebrate. I am quite optimistic. The feedback
:42:53. > :43:01.we are getting on the doors across the whole of Wales is actually
:43:01. > :43:06.pretty good. They want efficient, good quality public services, and
:43:06. > :43:12.they do not want to see hikes in the council tax, and that is why
:43:12. > :43:19.the main policy we have is to advocate the freezing of council to
:43:19. > :43:29.axe. All parties are hoping to do this, including the Liberal
:43:29. > :43:33.
:43:33. > :43:36.Democrats. Across the councils, we have a good story to tell people.
:43:36. > :43:40.That is why I am quite hopeful that once the story is told to people
:43:40. > :43:45.they will see the value of keeping Liberal Democrats in control. What
:43:45. > :43:49.we're trying to do is consolidate what we have got. Given where we
:43:49. > :43:53.are, that will be a major achievement. If we do better than
:43:53. > :43:57.that I would be very happy indeed. One part of Wales is not likely to
:43:57. > :44:03.go to the polls this spring. Anglesey's local election is
:44:03. > :44:13.expected to be postponed by one year by ministers, as the review of
:44:13. > :44:19.
:44:19. > :44:24.the electoral boundaries on the Elections are being fought a very
:44:24. > :44:32.different context this time. Obviously what is happening at the
:44:32. > :44:41.moment is, whilst the Welsh government is trying to protect
:44:41. > :44:46.finances, what is coming from the UK government is prices rising and
:44:46. > :44:49.inflation. This is a very difficult context. We welcome the opportunity
:44:49. > :44:54.to get out and see what people are thinking, but it is difficult
:44:54. > :44:57.because what people will be doing is saying, we are very concerned
:44:57. > :45:01.about the local services, we are very concerned about how they're
:45:01. > :45:06.going to be delivered, and it will not be easy for any council to
:45:06. > :45:10.deliver over the next four years. We're there for the fight, and we
:45:10. > :45:15.can see that people are coming back to us, and saying they're going to
:45:15. > :45:19.be voting Labour. How difficult will it be to fight a positive
:45:19. > :45:26.local campaign, bearing in mind the pressures that council's face at
:45:26. > :45:32.the moment? Going back to what was said a moment ago about the cuts in
:45:32. > :45:39.Wales. Even key numbers in the Labour Party, like Alastair Darling,
:45:39. > :45:43.Are saying cuts were inevitable. It falls on all parties to fight the
:45:43. > :45:48.campaign. In terms of public finances, local authorities deliver
:45:48. > :45:57.a huge range of services, and we have to argue for things like a
:45:57. > :46:01.freeze on council tax, for people These elections are sometimes a
:46:01. > :46:05.reflection on how the parties are doing centrally and nationally. Ed
:46:05. > :46:09.Miliband is starting on his bigger relaunch. If we are reading the
:46:09. > :46:14.papers today, he has a negative rating among his own party. Do you
:46:14. > :46:17.think that will be a factor in the elections? It is always difficult
:46:17. > :46:22.when you are leader of the opposition. But he has led the
:46:22. > :46:26.debate on crony capitalism. But his own people turn against. He has led
:46:26. > :46:29.this debate, and we see David Cameron and trying to adopt the
:46:29. > :46:34.sort of strategies, trying to tackle things like excessive
:46:34. > :46:40.salaries at the top. When you're an opposition, if you have good ideas,
:46:40. > :46:45.they are often stolen. Cutting the budgets, will that reflect on your
:46:45. > :46:49.party? No, I think people are aware that we are in a difficult
:46:49. > :46:53.financial situation, and these cuts are inevitable. Labour has said
:46:53. > :46:58.that themselves. David Cameron was speaking more about the need to
:46:59. > :47:04.deal with some of the inequities in the citizens before if Ed Miliband
:47:04. > :47:12.was. Each week will have a look back at
:47:12. > :47:18.the Welsh political week. Here is the week in 62nd.
:47:18. > :47:21.-- 60 seconds. Carwyn Jones accused the UK
:47:21. > :47:25.government of buying off the Secretary of State for Wales for a
:47:25. > :47:32.high-speed rail line. He questioned the decision to spend money on a
:47:32. > :47:36.tunnel designed to limit effect on the landscape in a Buckinghamshire
:47:36. > :47:46.constituency. Adam Price backed Leanne Wood for the Plaid Cymru
:47:46. > :47:51.leadership. Another contender launched a scathing attack on their
:47:51. > :47:54.election strategy. Leslie Griffiths said women in
:47:55. > :47:59.Wales who need faulty breast implants removed will be offered
:47:59. > :48:03.and plants -- replacements on the NHS, even if the original operation
:48:03. > :48:06.was carried out privately. And battle-lines were drawn over
:48:06. > :48:16.the proposal to reorganise parliamentary constituency
:48:16. > :48:21.
:48:21. > :48:29.boundaries, resulting in Wales That was the week and 60 seconds.
:48:29. > :48:38.Nia Griffith, be used to have the men I Straits, what has happened to
:48:38. > :48:43.the great country? -- Menai. Sadly, their numbers have been reduced,
:48:43. > :48:45.and that is something we do not want to say, but it was a difficult
:48:45. > :48:51.job to draw up the boundaries, and they have come up with something
:48:51. > :48:55.that is a reasonable attempt. There would be a lot of changes suggested
:48:55. > :49:05.that local level, but when you look at the parameters within they had
:49:05. > :49:08.to work, you have to say that they have made a good first try. Do you
:49:08. > :49:13.wear a places with no historical link are being put together?
:49:13. > :49:17.Boundary Commission have done a good job, that is recognised. The
:49:17. > :49:26.reduction from 40 to 30 MPs is a good thing. The equalisation of the
:49:26. > :49:29.number of electors in each seat is a good thing as well. For 3 million