:01:24. > :01:27.Later in the programme: 50 years since Saunders Lewis
:01:27. > :01:37.predicted that Welsh could die as a living language how close to the
:01:37. > :01:37.
:01:37. > :29:58.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1701 seconds
:29:58. > :30:02.truth was he in his famous radio Hello, and we will be discussing
:30:02. > :30:07.the future of the Welsh Language Today and the ongoing clash between
:30:07. > :30:14.Westminster and Cardiff Bay of the health service. My guests of the
:30:14. > :30:19.Labour NT -- Labour MP, Paul Flynn, and Suzy Davies. One of the big
:30:19. > :30:23.stories has been sparks between the Westminster and Cardiff Bay
:30:23. > :30:30.government of the health service. We have a health secretary under
:30:31. > :30:34.siege. His health under crisis in both countries? Unfortunately Dave
:30:34. > :30:39.Cameron when he is cornered insults people or create these figures. He
:30:39. > :30:45.has got a terrible problem. Almost nobody is supporting this Bill,
:30:45. > :30:48.doctors, nurses, members of his own Cabinet. He either has to abandon
:30:48. > :30:51.it and suffered humiliation or continue with it and if that
:30:51. > :30:57.happens all the problems in the health service for the next few
:30:57. > :31:03.years will be blamed on him and the organisation. You have admitted
:31:03. > :31:08.there is a crisis on both sides. are aware of the conversations
:31:08. > :31:17.taking place in Westminster, but the views of this programme will be
:31:17. > :31:19.interested in what happens in Wales -- the viewers. It is in crisis,
:31:19. > :31:22.and the first Minister's response is constantly to try to divert
:31:23. > :31:29.attention to what is happening in England and that is not what we
:31:29. > :31:32.need to know about it. This is a so did we will return to later in the
:31:32. > :31:34.programme. In the meantime it is 50 years this
:31:34. > :31:41.week's in Saunders Lewis issued a wake-up call on North language was
:31:41. > :31:51.up in his lecture at Tynged yr Iaith, The Fate of the Language he
:31:51. > :32:01.
:32:01. > :32:05.warned it could disappear by the The body responsible for mope --
:32:05. > :32:08.promoting the Welsh language will come to an end in a few weeks. That
:32:08. > :32:13.responsibility will fall on the shoulders of the newt language
:32:14. > :32:19.Commissioner. The outgoing chief executive of the Welsh Language
:32:19. > :32:25.Board told me about his concerns for the future. If I look back over
:32:25. > :32:28.the last 18 years you can see the traffic in terms of ideas,
:32:28. > :32:32.promoting the Welsh language, has gone from the board to the
:32:32. > :32:39.government, not in the other direction. So as the responsibility
:32:39. > :32:44.now goes to the government, he will lead that created the age? Who
:32:44. > :32:48.actually with in political circles will have that role of practically
:32:48. > :32:52.saying we need to do something about the Welsh language. It is in
:32:52. > :32:56.crisis, how do we promoted, put that forward? In terms of
:32:56. > :33:00.legislation, as the board disappears and we have a new
:33:01. > :33:04.structure, my question is, who has that creative role? I am not sure
:33:04. > :33:10.at the moment I can added by that element in the jigsaw. There is a
:33:10. > :33:17.particular void, you think, in that respect. That surely is a major
:33:17. > :33:23.cause for concern. It is. We need to look at the system we have at
:33:23. > :33:27.present, look to the major players are, what are their influences, and
:33:27. > :33:31.plan within the new structure to make sure those influences are
:33:31. > :33:36.there, especially around the issue of promoting the language. How do
:33:36. > :33:41.you get a person, a young person, a street corner on a Saturday night
:33:41. > :33:44.to speak Welsh by choice? I am sure the government would say they
:33:44. > :33:49.created the very role of a language Commissioner to promote the
:33:50. > :33:56.language. Are you confident their language commissioner has the teeth
:33:56. > :34:00.to carry out all her functions? role of the Language Commission is
:34:00. > :34:04.to operate as a regulator, check-up on bodies they don't deliver
:34:04. > :34:10.services in Welsh. It is an important role, a role the board
:34:10. > :34:15.did not have. But there is a big void in terms of the promotion. It
:34:15. > :34:19.is back to this idea, how do you get people to use language? Having
:34:19. > :34:23.public services within public bodies is a small part of that
:34:23. > :34:30.jigsaw, but getting people to use the language with it -- with their
:34:30. > :34:35.narrow personal life, it workplace, in society, -- in their own
:34:35. > :34:39.personal life, is a task that can only be delivered by an
:34:39. > :34:46.organisation with the flexibility the board has had to delve into
:34:46. > :34:51.society, people's lives, and say we can help you, provide support. That
:34:51. > :34:55.is not an obvious feature of the work of government, or a language
:34:55. > :35:01.regulator. It is that Ford I am more worried about the make actual
:35:01. > :35:05.structure at present. If we come when the clock forward 50 years, or
:35:05. > :35:11.where do you think the Welsh language will be then?
:35:11. > :35:15.A new language strategy is about to be produced. We have had no put
:35:15. > :35:20.into that. We are looking forward to some new and very bright ideas.
:35:20. > :35:24.We are looking for ideas, but looking for an investment. There
:35:24. > :35:29.needs to be an investment in terms of ideas, innovation, but also in
:35:29. > :35:33.terms of cash. Unless that is there the language will not survive. You
:35:33. > :35:37.can have as much legislation as you watch, as much policy, but unless
:35:38. > :35:41.you get in amongst the people and show them and persuade them the
:35:42. > :35:47.language is something which is useful to them, there is no hope, I
:35:47. > :35:52.think. Is this a growing language, or a dying language? It is a
:35:52. > :35:57.growing language in some ways but as a community language it is dying.
:35:57. > :36:01.And less eager support within communities. -- unless it get
:36:01. > :36:08.support. They can be geographical communities but also using IT as
:36:08. > :36:11.well. They need support for that. Without it it is a situation where
:36:11. > :36:21.we will have increased number of people who can speak the language
:36:21. > :36:25.but a decrease in the numbers who Painting a very pessimistic picture
:36:25. > :36:31.as regards the Welsh language. Do you share his concerns?
:36:31. > :36:36.Pessimism is a trigger for action and I can recall vividly how the
:36:36. > :36:40.Saunders Lewis lecture chilled the blood, we were comely -- suddenly
:36:40. > :36:46.confronted out of our complacency, that the greatest treasure, this
:36:46. > :36:51.language that existed, centuries before English existed, was likely
:36:51. > :36:55.to be neglected to death in our generation. And that is what gave
:36:55. > :37:00.the great revival to the language, the realisation we had teacher
:37:00. > :37:10.should in no way we hadn't done before. -- we had to cherish it in
:37:10. > :37:15.a way. It has been astonishingly successful, the language is used
:37:15. > :37:21.today, people are still writing, children are playing a Welsh,
:37:21. > :37:28.people are making love in Welsh, tweeting in Welsh, it is very
:37:28. > :37:31.healthy. One of his major concerns is what will happen under this new
:37:31. > :37:34.structure where the border disappears and its functions are
:37:34. > :37:38.transferred to the language commissioner appointed by the Welsh
:37:38. > :37:45.government? He is raising concerns, one might say he would because his
:37:45. > :37:49.job is disappearing. Do you share his concerns? I don't share his
:37:49. > :37:52.pessimism but it is right to raise a word of warning. Perhaps we are
:37:52. > :38:02.reaching one of their stages in the dipper element of watched her where
:38:02. > :38:04.
:38:04. > :38:06.it is ready for a step change. Now is there is time to look at what
:38:06. > :38:10.the commissioner does and look at how communities are using the
:38:11. > :38:15.language. What he said, he was quite telling, more people can
:38:15. > :38:19.speak Welsh but few are actually doing it and that is where perhaps
:38:19. > :38:24.community action is more relevant than it has been in the past.
:38:24. > :38:32.of people saying that as a consequence of of the radio lecture
:38:32. > :38:38.we saw the formation of the Welsh Language Society. One thing I was
:38:38. > :38:45.told his there needs to be a new body, a new movement bow, bow will
:38:45. > :38:49.promote the Welsh language -- a new movement now that will promote the
:38:49. > :38:59.war Welsh-language. We need something beyond the political
:38:59. > :38:59.
:38:59. > :39:03.mainstream. One we get an official grasp, hugging the language to
:39:03. > :39:08.death, it is the passion people feel for the language, the unique
:39:08. > :39:12.nature of the language, the wisdom that has come down the centuries.
:39:12. > :39:16.As we see it as more precious, that is what will save the language,
:39:16. > :39:21.rather than official bodies. I believe there is this realisation
:39:21. > :39:25.that the language is of enormous value. Will we look at the way
:39:25. > :39:29.minority languages and other countries have withered and died,
:39:29. > :39:34.and he we have the language still alive and still going very strong
:39:34. > :39:40.for us, it is up to us to do it. We need a bit of pessimism. We need
:39:40. > :39:43.people to say how is this language spoken by fewer than a million
:39:43. > :39:49.people survive for me look at the fate of other minority languages?
:39:49. > :39:54.It is very much up to us to realise and make an enormous effort to
:39:54. > :39:55.ensure this wonderful language, this language of heaven, or still
:39:55. > :39:59.be heard on the lips of our grandchildren.
:39:59. > :40:04.Another thing that wasn't broadcast their that he said was the Welsh
:40:04. > :40:09.government in his he is not promoting Wales as a bilingual
:40:09. > :40:16.nation with two official languages. Is that your experience of
:40:16. > :40:21.government? I don't know. Certainly as a newcomer to the Assembly any
:40:21. > :40:27.official engagement I have little is inevitably I have the choice to
:40:27. > :40:32.do it in English or Welsh and the material will also be in English
:40:32. > :40:36.and Welsh. The level of activity, I'm not over-concerned pair well
:40:36. > :40:40.she's not getting attention. What perhaps we are not concentrating on
:40:40. > :40:44.and what the Welsh government could put more emphasis on his right a
:40:44. > :40:48.grassroots level and where children are incredibly young, normalising
:40:48. > :40:53.the existence of the language and communities where perhaps it has
:40:53. > :40:56.not been used an awful lot in the past and where organisations are
:40:56. > :41:05.critically important to have his players out. There was government
:41:05. > :41:08.will be publishing its Welsh- language strategy on the 1st March.
:41:09. > :41:13.After this afternoon's rugby clash with Scotland worried that the's
:41:13. > :41:23.men face England but there is another Wales-England battle
:41:23. > :41:27.
:41:27. > :41:30.building up -- Warren Gatland. There have been beliefs about their
:41:30. > :41:35.health service situation. There is nothing quite like a Wales
:41:35. > :41:38.England clash, whatever the arena. Locked horns, intense rivalry,
:41:39. > :41:44.partisan crowds. In rugby such battles at the heart of the game's
:41:44. > :41:51.history. At Westminster there is a newer, less sporting tradition, and
:41:51. > :41:56.it is the Welsh NHS that is getting a kicking. Letters have a look at
:41:56. > :42:00.what is happening to the NHS is Wales. They have put the money and
:42:00. > :42:04.one third of people are waiting longer than 18 months, 18 weeks,
:42:04. > :42:08.that is what is happening in Labour's NHS and if you didn't put
:42:08. > :42:13.the money in and have the reform it would happen here as well.
:42:13. > :42:20.As the Labour pack piled into plans to give GPs and other clinicians
:42:20. > :42:25.much more control of hands bounding, and encourage the private sector,
:42:25. > :42:33.the Prime Minister sidestepped by presenting the Welsh NHS as a bit
:42:33. > :42:40.of a basket case. They have cut health spending by �40 billion, a
:42:40. > :42:44.6.5% cut. 27% of people in Wales wait more than six weeks for
:42:44. > :42:49.diagnostic services. The figure for England is just 1%. As I said
:42:49. > :42:53.earlier, a third of people waiting over 18 weeks without -- for their
:42:53. > :42:58.operation in Wales. That is what you get if you get Labour, no money,
:42:58. > :43:02.no reform, no good health service. I am surprised the Conservatives
:43:02. > :43:08.have raised this issue given the chaos that now exists in England
:43:08. > :43:13.over NHS reform. At least we don't have the share of the BMA telling
:43:13. > :43:16.us our health policies are dangers -- chair. Wales's First Minister
:43:16. > :43:21.isn't averse to giving Mr Cameron's health bill a kicking on the
:43:22. > :43:27.somewhat smaller Cardiff Bay Arena. Given what is happening in England
:43:27. > :43:32.I think he was trying to deflect from the situation there. In
:43:32. > :43:35.England we have seen doctors' representatives saying the reforms
:43:35. > :43:39.are somewhat dangerous, almost every organisation that represents
:43:39. > :43:42.those who work and health service say the reforms are not going to
:43:43. > :43:47.work, we don't have that situation in Wales. I am sure the people of
:43:47. > :43:51.Wales are glad of that. Health service points scoring is the stuff
:43:51. > :43:56.of politics, but could continued prime-ministerial mornings of the
:43:57. > :43:59.Welsh NHS caused serious injury? think he will run down people's
:43:59. > :44:03.perception in Wales of their health service. People start to believe
:44:03. > :44:07.because the opposite voice isn't but very effectively, but yes, the
:44:07. > :44:11.Welsh Health Service does under before. We'll know because
:44:11. > :44:14.everybody says it. And that will both harm potentially harm
:44:14. > :44:19.recruitment well Wales has to compete in a UK context, and it
:44:19. > :44:24.will also underline patient's confidence in the health service,
:44:24. > :44:29.quite unfairly. Fair or foul, the health changes in
:44:29. > :44:33.England are set to loom large right up to the UK general election. The
:44:33. > :44:41.Welsh NHS can expect plenty more bruising encounters between now and
:44:41. > :44:46.that final whistle in 2015. Suzy Davies, we have seen a lot of
:44:46. > :44:49.political insults bandied about this week in terms of the use of
:44:49. > :44:52.statistics over the health service. That might be good political point
:44:52. > :44:57.scoring, but it doesn't really too much for those who depend on the
:44:57. > :45:01.NHS, does it? If you been to see your GP and you're worried about
:45:01. > :45:07.your health you will not be worried about statistics. We want to know
:45:07. > :45:11.is when you can see a consultant at how your condition can be managed.
:45:11. > :45:14.I don't think it has been helpful in that respect. We do need to know
:45:14. > :45:18.more about what happens in our health service in Wales. It is
:45:18. > :45:21.different from the English debate. The press coverage we are exposed
:45:21. > :45:24.to it is about what is happening in England. More because of what
:45:24. > :45:27.happens here is particularly important. I would much rather hear
:45:27. > :45:31.about the figures Andrew Martin Davis put out in the Chamber about
:45:31. > :45:36.what Cameron has been talking about him Westminster.
:45:36. > :45:40.If GPs know best, why not give them greater control over the budget?
:45:40. > :45:44.they know best the bill will be dropped because the GPs in England
:45:44. > :45:48.are saying drop the Bill. Why not give them greater control? If they
:45:48. > :45:53.know how to treat their patients, what treatment should go to their
:45:53. > :45:57.patients, why not give them the power to control their own budget?
:45:57. > :46:04.Because they have turned against it. Serve the whip -- midwives,
:46:04. > :46:07.patients' Association, BMA, so have three members of the candidate.
:46:07. > :46:11.This then there are scores of people saying drop the Bill, and I
:46:11. > :46:15.am afraid camera is just being stubborn. What we all want to know
:46:15. > :46:20.is the NHS will be there, it will be safe for us, and the best
:46:20. > :46:25.treatment available when we need it. If you look back, I can remember
:46:25. > :46:29.when the NHS didn't exist, and the agonies parents had to face when
:46:29. > :46:31.they had to make her mind whether they paid half the crowd and called
:46:31. > :46:36.the doctors and when they were children dying from childhood
:46:36. > :46:40.diseases, or whether they put food on the table the following week. We
:46:40. > :46:43.had a terrible standard of health service in Wales compares to places
:46:43. > :46:49.like Cheltenham and London and that has gone. People love the health
:46:49. > :46:54.service, 70% satisfaction that two years ago. People don't want to
:46:54. > :46:58.see... David Cameron said the last
:46:58. > :47:02.government was cutting 400 million from the health budget. That is
:47:02. > :47:05.about the same amount of money which the Welsh government claims
:47:05. > :47:10.is owed to them through underfunding.
:47:10. > :47:17.But is certainly not true of the health budget, is it? The West must
:47:17. > :47:25.do government made equipment the beginning of his 10 it was ring-
:47:25. > :47:35.fencing it. -- the Westminster government major Shaw at the
:47:35. > :47:38.
:47:38. > :47:42.beginning of its turn it was ring- fencing it.
:47:42. > :47:52.Thank you both very much. Plenty to look back on from the week that has
:47:52. > :47:57.
:47:57. > :48:00.just passed. We have a look back at The Wales Audit Office is
:48:00. > :48:04.investigating Wales's most prominent race equality body. The
:48:04. > :48:08.report raised serious concerns about financial mismanagement at
:48:08. > :48:11.the All Wales ethnic minority Association. The Charity Commission
:48:11. > :48:17.has also brought an inquiry and the police said they were examining the
:48:17. > :48:23.evidence in the report. Two employees was suspended from the
:48:23. > :48:27.Labour Party pending the outcome of an internal inquiry. Shadow farming
:48:27. > :48:31.minister criticised the decision to scrap the Agricultural wages Board
:48:31. > :48:38.which sets minimum wage rates and conditions for 12,000 workers
:48:39. > :48:42.across Wales. The Prime Minister agreed to discuss a new law making
:48:42. > :48:46.stalking a criminal offence. It was needed to stop harassment they
:48:46. > :48:56.could end in murder. The Welsh government urged motorists not to
:48:56. > :49:01.
:49:01. > :49:05.smoke while driving with children. Ahmad health related matter,
:49:06. > :49:09.smoking in cars with children, yes on air? I think that will get a big
:49:09. > :49:14.public support. We need to be careful is banning smoking
:49:14. > :49:18.completely, but I think where children and other vunerable people
:49:18. > :49:23.are in the car, I think you will get a lot of support. Don't parents
:49:23. > :49:29.know best? Smoking is an addiction and we must ensure that children
:49:29. > :49:32.are protected from it. It is the great killer drug of our generation.
:49:32. > :49:37.Banning a drug doesn't reduce disease, it often gives it the
:49:37. > :49:41.thrill of being something that is forbidden fruit and doesn't help to