:30:20. > :30:23.How best to tackle the growing Hello, I'm Aled Ap Dafydd and on
:30:23. > :30:28.the Sunday Politics Wales, we'll be asking what can be done to tackle
:30:28. > :30:30.homelessness as it reaches a five year high. And as Carwyn Jones
:30:30. > :30:33.urges Plaid Cymru voters to back Labour in May's council elections,
:30:33. > :30:36.I've been speaking Ed Miliband at Welsh Labour's Spring conference.
:30:36. > :30:45.I'll be joined for the next 20 minutes by Labour's Ann Jones and
:30:45. > :30:48.the Liberal Democrat Eluned Parrott. You have made it in double quick
:30:48. > :30:51.time from the Swalec Stadium, way or the party conference is still
:30:51. > :30:56.going on. I know you are going to say it has been a good weekend for
:30:56. > :31:00.a Welsh Labour. Would you like to say why? We've had some good
:31:00. > :31:05.speeches from Ed Miliband, Peter Hain and some good delegate
:31:05. > :31:13.contributions as to where we are going to go. We have May elections.
:31:13. > :31:16.It is -- has been a good weekend. There has been a lot of criticism
:31:16. > :31:19.of the Westminster government. I'm sure you'll be looking to get your
:31:19. > :31:22.own back to when it comes to your Liberal-Democrat conference in a
:31:22. > :31:26.few weeks' time. Not necessarily. It is disappointing when you hear
:31:26. > :31:29.Welsh Labour talking about a Westminster all the time. Let's
:31:29. > :31:34.hear about Wales and its problems, and what ideas you've got to do
:31:34. > :31:37.about it. I'm looking forward to a good debate to come.
:31:37. > :31:40.Ed Miliband has been in Cardiff this weekend for the Labour party's
:31:40. > :31:42.annual Welsh conference. He praised the Welsh Party for offering an
:31:42. > :31:45.alternative to the policies of the coalition Government in Westminster.
:31:45. > :31:48.After addressing delegates I spoke to Ed Miliband about the upcoming
:31:48. > :31:58.local elections and I began by asking him how can Labour regain
:31:58. > :32:01.the ground lost in 2008. I hope that we can win back seats in
:32:01. > :32:06.councils at these elections in May but I think it is part of its
:32:06. > :32:10.bigger argument about who is best to stand up for Wales. I think what
:32:10. > :32:16.Carwyn Jones's for government is showing that on the major issues,
:32:16. > :32:20.whether it be youth jobs, education, policing or other issues, Labour is
:32:20. > :32:23.best to stand up for Wales and are -- that is the case we will be
:32:23. > :32:27.taking to people. There are difficult choices for local
:32:27. > :32:30.councils but I think it is the case that Labour councils applying
:32:30. > :32:33.Labour values can do the best for the people of Wales. There is
:32:33. > :32:38.nothing which is exercising the minds of the public more at the
:32:38. > :32:43.moment than the economy. As Mervyn King would put it, are you not zig-
:32:43. > :32:47.zagging on your economic policy? First it was too far, too fast. Now
:32:47. > :32:51.it is, we are going to have to keep all these cuts. What is the Labour
:32:51. > :32:58.message? It is clear. The government is going too far, to
:32:59. > :33:05.Clarke -- fast. That is why we are seeing low or negative growth,
:33:05. > :33:09.growing unemployment. But then can I promise now for three-and-a-half
:33:09. > :33:13.years hence that we will restore particular cuts? I'm not going to
:33:13. > :33:16.make a promise without knowing the books that I will inherit. Given
:33:16. > :33:19.that the government is failing on its promise to eliminate the
:33:19. > :33:23.deficit, am not going to make that promise. People will understand
:33:23. > :33:27.that. People want to know that we have a different approach but they
:33:27. > :33:30.want to know that we will be responsible in our promises. There
:33:30. > :33:35.is nothing that undermines politics more found politicians breaking
:33:35. > :33:42.promises. Wales has a high proportion of workers in the public
:33:42. > :33:52.sector. You have said you favour a pay cut. Carwyn Jones is up -- as
:33:52. > :33:55.
:33:55. > :34:04.opposed to a cave cap. -- -- pay cap. In government, we advocate a
:34:04. > :34:08.1% rise in public pay. The government has gone with an average.
:34:08. > :34:11.If we were in government, we would do is in a fair way. It is just
:34:11. > :34:15.being honest. If it is a choice between losing jobs and having
:34:15. > :34:21.greater restraint upon the public sector pay, we would choose the
:34:21. > :34:25.restrained. I know that is difficult for people. Can you see
:34:25. > :34:32.why people might be confused? You say the message is Labour standing
:34:32. > :34:36.up for the people of Wales but you say that there should be a pay cap,
:34:36. > :34:40.Carwyn Jones's saying the opposite. That is devolution. If you're
:34:40. > :34:43.expecting a Labour leader in the UK who says that everybody must think
:34:43. > :34:47.the same, we must save the same thing, that is not what devolution
:34:47. > :34:51.is about. Devolution is about particular solutions in different
:34:51. > :34:54.parts of the country and Carwyn Jones will take his own view about
:34:55. > :34:57.the issues. That is something we would be dealing with if we were in
:34:57. > :35:01.government. I think our economic policy is clear which is that the
:35:01. > :35:05.government is taking the wrong approach, going too far and too
:35:05. > :35:08.fast. Carwyn Jones is doing this every day, he is making it
:35:08. > :35:12.difficult choices and what we've got to do it as an opposition is
:35:12. > :35:18.show that we would be willing to make tough choices. We don't think
:35:18. > :35:23.there is going to be billions of pounds extra to spend but there are
:35:23. > :35:27.different priorities. Tax the bankers bonuses to put the young
:35:27. > :35:31.back to work, for example. Can I ask you finally about the future of
:35:31. > :35:35.devolution. Carwyn Jones says that he favours a constitutional
:35:36. > :35:39.convention. Us that something that she would be -- is that something
:35:39. > :35:44.that you will be asking the Prime Minister for? I think he is
:35:44. > :35:50.definitely ride that ongoing discussions needed to be had about
:35:50. > :35:53.devolution. I am with him on that. And also with him on thinking,
:35:53. > :35:56.there is a world of difference between the devolution that we have
:35:56. > :36:00.and the break-up of Britain that the nationalists, particularly in
:36:00. > :36:04.Scotland, are proposing. I think we are united as one on VAT and that
:36:04. > :36:09.is why I said in a speech, it is important that we all fight for the
:36:09. > :36:15.United Kingdom. You sound like David Cameron, saying we are
:36:15. > :36:19.stronger together. We have had no formal agreements on this! David
:36:19. > :36:23.Cameron has his own way of putting it, his own argument. The same way
:36:23. > :36:26.as you are putting it. If you are saying that he also things he
:36:26. > :36:30.shouldn't break up the United Kingdom, that is correct. Led be
:36:30. > :36:34.just say this. The reasons are different in the following sense. I
:36:34. > :36:36.say the values of equality and justice which I believe in, which I
:36:36. > :36:40.don't believe David Cameron believes in, are best achieved in
:36:40. > :36:48.the UK. I think we can have a better chance of creating fairness
:36:48. > :36:52.and justice together. That was Ed Miliband talking to me
:36:52. > :36:55.yesterday. Are there any lessons that Ed Miliband can learn from the
:36:55. > :36:59.way in which Welsh Labour are going about things? What we have done
:36:59. > :37:04.with Welsh Labour since devolution is make those differences for the
:37:04. > :37:08.Welsh people. We've tried to mitigate some of the four full caps
:37:08. > :37:13.that came from the coalition government. What we are trying to
:37:13. > :37:19.do is... We went out on the doorsteps last May and said we will
:37:19. > :37:24.stand up for Wales. That is what we have done. I feel that we are
:37:24. > :37:27.making progress now. He mentioned the cuts. One thing I was put into
:37:28. > :37:32.Ed Miliband, it is a confusing message from Labour. It is too far,
:37:32. > :37:38.too fast at the beginning. Now Ed Balls says no, we would have to
:37:38. > :37:42.Kibble of these cuts. Ed Miliband talks about a pay cap in the public
:37:42. > :37:47.sector. Carwyn Jones says no. What is the message? The Welsh Labour
:37:47. > :37:52.will stand up for people of Wales. That message... It seems to be
:37:52. > :37:57.changing from day-to-day. doesn't change. Ed Miliband cannot
:37:57. > :38:03.make promises and that he sees the box. That would be irresponsible.
:38:03. > :38:06.Ed Balls says today says a cut on VAT would help families and
:38:06. > :38:09.certainly it would. There is a clear message going through that we
:38:09. > :38:19.will be looking for those farmers, helping those families, and was
:38:19. > :38:20.
:38:20. > :38:26.labour has had to take phased cuts -- and Labour has had to... The
:38:26. > :38:30.Tories have failed to listen to frontline people. Labour will not
:38:30. > :38:40.be doing that. We will be standing up for people. Labour's message
:38:40. > :38:44.
:38:44. > :38:50.today is Avia 80 cut. -- A VAT cut. It is a message that will appeal in
:38:50. > :38:53.these tough Financial Times to a lot of people. I think so. The
:38:53. > :38:59.public a sophisticated and understand that there is no way of
:39:00. > :39:08.paying for all of these tax cuts in one go. People in Wales have seen...
:39:08. > :39:15.We have heard that Labour is trying to save a bit of Wales for the
:39:15. > :39:17.terrible cuts. I think they should take some responsibility. There are
:39:17. > :39:21.some sophisticated people who are saying we need growth in the
:39:22. > :39:28.economy and one way of achieving that is to give the economy some
:39:28. > :39:33.kind of stimulus. Absolutely. We are already starting to see
:39:33. > :39:35.positive signs for the economy and we have heard last week from the
:39:35. > :39:40.International Monetary Fund that actually, the biggest potential
:39:40. > :39:45.risk to the UK's triple A rating is to go back to the road that Labour
:39:45. > :39:48.was taking a stand. We had Ed Miliband talking just now about an
:39:48. > :39:52.alternative road but as far as I can see, the road he is proposing
:39:52. > :39:58.is the alternative road to the country of Greece. We need to be
:39:58. > :40:03.responsible. The people of the UK understand that we are in a
:40:03. > :40:06.difficult situation and we need to steady the ship. Ed Balls's critics
:40:06. > :40:11.say it is excessive borrowing and debt under Labour which got us into
:40:11. > :40:19.this and the first place. Here he is advocating more borrowing.
:40:19. > :40:24.Hain was talking about the fact that it is not the binmen or the
:40:24. > :40:28.doctors to have caused the debt, it was unregulated financial systems.
:40:28. > :40:32.I do believe we should be taxing bankers bonuses and I do believe
:40:32. > :40:37.that Ed Balls is right to say we should be putting an economic
:40:38. > :40:42.stimulus in. On VAT, it would cost to reverse that rise about �12
:40:42. > :40:47.billion. The coalition government is borrowing �158 billion more than
:40:47. > :40:51.it said it would so �12 billion is a drop in the ocean compared to the
:40:52. > :40:56.amount of borrowing going on at the moment. �12 billion is not a drop
:40:56. > :41:00.in the ocean. It is nearly 10 % of the total and that is too much. Any
:41:00. > :41:06.need to be trying to find ways of steadying the ship, raining things
:41:07. > :41:11.in Surrey can start tackling that deficit in a responsible manner. --
:41:11. > :41:20.so we can start. People here these promises from the Labour Party and
:41:20. > :41:26.they understand they cannot trust the Labour Party with their many.
:41:26. > :41:28.-- money. Homelessness in Wales is at a five year high, with warnings
:41:28. > :41:31.benefit changes and economic conditions will leave thousands
:41:31. > :41:33.more struggling to keep a roof over their head. Politicians argue over
:41:33. > :41:36.whose to blame but the Welsh Government is seeking cross-party
:41:36. > :41:39.support for a new approach to the problem. Adrian Brown has been
:41:39. > :41:45.hearing how one man's life spiralled out of control when he
:41:45. > :41:50.was forced from his home and how he turned his life around.
:41:50. > :41:54.Adam, at the Big Issue magazine, after a decade of homelessness, a
:41:54. > :42:00.young offenders' institutes or jail. He grew up in Penarth with a loving
:42:00. > :42:04.family and good school -- school grades. As a teenager, he began
:42:04. > :42:07.committing petty theft and minor criminal damage. He was arrested
:42:08. > :42:12.and a bail condition stopped him living in his town, keeping away --
:42:12. > :42:17.keeping him away from his friends but also his family. His new home
:42:17. > :42:22.was a Cardiff hostel. It was there that I was exposed to a world that
:42:22. > :42:25.I had never come across before. Penarth has got a nice area. I had
:42:25. > :42:31.lived a sheltered life while I was there forceable the sudden, I was
:42:31. > :42:39.in a hostel in Cardiff and mostly the people in the hostel were a lot
:42:39. > :42:44.older, they were 20 up words. There was a lot of heroin and crack
:42:44. > :42:48.cocaine use in these places. Heroin use and addiction followed. Adam
:42:48. > :42:55.tried repeatedly to get clean, sometimes leaving hostels to get
:42:55. > :42:59.away from drugs and sleeping on the steps of a public building. There
:42:59. > :43:02.are people who will come and give you soup and sandwiches in the
:43:03. > :43:07.evening say you want to be somewhere where they can find you.
:43:07. > :43:13.Security guards did not take too kindly to be sleeping on the steps.
:43:13. > :43:16.I understand that they don't want people sleeping rough on the steps
:43:17. > :43:26.in the mornings but it was not great. After 10 years, Adam got his
:43:27. > :43:30.
:43:30. > :43:34.life together. Support workers... The Welsh housing Minister believes
:43:34. > :43:37.more can be done to help people like Adam. To there will always be
:43:37. > :43:42.those people who hit a crisis situation and we need the best
:43:42. > :43:46.support for them that we can possibly supply. But I think many,
:43:46. > :43:52.many instances of homelessness could be averted if we changed the
:43:52. > :43:57.system to intervene earlier. We are clear about where duties lie in
:43:57. > :44:03.terms of preventing homelessness. He says he is reviewing policy from
:44:03. > :44:08.top to bottom, as work continues on the first Welsh housing bill.
:44:08. > :44:12.responsibility Show upon ourselves as the government, upon the whole
:44:12. > :44:18.assembly in terms of the consensus we can build around the importance
:44:18. > :44:23.of this issue, that responsibility should weigh heavily upon me and my
:44:23. > :44:29.colleagues in the assembly as off. Adam has he went on to study social
:44:29. > :44:33.care at University, before getting a job as a big issue at trick --
:44:33. > :44:37.outreach worker. If your family was wiped out in a car crash tomorrow,
:44:37. > :44:42.how would you turn to it? If you turned to drink, I would not judge
:44:42. > :44:49.it. Anybody who thinks it could not happen to their or somebody they
:44:49. > :44:52.love is naive. The Welsh government announced a 10
:44:52. > :45:01.year homelessness strategy in September. What can we expect from
:45:01. > :45:05.that? Looking at that story, it sounds shockwaves through me. I
:45:05. > :45:10.think we ought to be, as the minister said, looking carefully at
:45:10. > :45:14.how we can intervene earlier, to prevent it. We're not going to
:45:14. > :45:17.prevent every homelessness situation and will see more and
:45:17. > :45:20.more homelessness with the Welfare Reform Bill going in -- going
:45:20. > :45:25.through force of that strategy says the services needed to be readily
:45:25. > :45:28.available. Is there a danger in the current economic climate that
:45:28. > :45:33.services will not be accessible and readily available? I don't think so.
:45:34. > :45:38.If you look at Cardiff, just before Christmas, I took part in a sleeper
:45:38. > :45:44.out for a charity worker Comus in Cardiff. They are building and
:45:44. > :45:49.opening a new hostel in Cardiff next year. There is investment
:45:49. > :45:53.going into providing that immediate support that people who are
:45:54. > :45:57.sleeping rough now need. There is that investment going in. We need
:45:57. > :46:01.to think carefully about the broader picture. I met with a
:46:01. > :46:04.number of homeless people in a hostel and it is clear to me from
:46:04. > :46:10.talking to people and hearing their stories that homelessness doesn't
:46:10. > :46:13.come alone, it comes with a wide range of other social problems.
:46:13. > :46:16.they concerned about benefit changes? They are concerned about
:46:16. > :46:19.building their lives. Their concern about how they're going to get
:46:19. > :46:24.their children back, how they are going to beat addiction problems,
:46:24. > :46:27.how they will be to mental health problems, how they are going to
:46:27. > :46:30.start to build their life that they are proud of and how they are going
:46:30. > :46:35.to start taking back their self- respect and dignity. Homelessness
:46:35. > :46:39.does depend on a multi-agency approach, to get people back with a
:46:39. > :46:44.roof over their heads. I joined up as the thinking and Wales? It I
:46:44. > :46:47.would like to say it is joined up but there are pockets of areas and
:46:48. > :46:51.people have spoken to who say there is not joined-up thinking. I think
:46:51. > :46:56.we have to put a concerted effort in. I'm sure the minister in his
:46:56. > :46:59.Housing Bill will be addressing this. We need a concerted effort.
:46:59. > :47:07.These are people, not just statistics. They are real people
:47:07. > :47:13.who need our help. I think they have to have money in their pockets
:47:13. > :47:23.to be able to survive. Time now for a political recap
:47:23. > :47:24.
:47:25. > :47:34.here's Adrian again with a look The chief executive and finance
:47:34. > :47:37.director of the race relations body all Wells was dismissed. Possible
:47:37. > :47:42.inquiries were launched into financial irregularities at the All
:47:42. > :47:46.Wales ethnic minorities as issue. Chris Bryant attacked Rupert
:47:46. > :47:50.Murdoch's decision to launch a new Sunday newspaper as a ludicrously
:47:51. > :47:56.premature. Various inquiries are still ongoing.
:47:56. > :47:58.Council tax increases across Wales should be at a record low in April.
:47:58. > :48:03.There was local government association predicted an average
:48:03. > :48:07.increase of around 2.1 %. Gay rights Davies, the Swansea West
:48:07. > :48:10.MP, called for tighter laws to prevent cable theft. Earlier this
:48:10. > :48:14.month, communication cables were stolen resulting in serious
:48:14. > :48:19.disruption at the city's hospitals. The assembly's children and young
:48:19. > :48:29.people Committee will examine whether children under the age of
:48:29. > :48:37.11 should be provided with free Let's pick up on a couple of those
:48:37. > :48:42.highlights. This idea of a Sunday Sun that paper... Is anything going
:48:42. > :48:46.to be a tarnished title? How could be anything otherwise? Six days of
:48:46. > :48:49.the Sun newspaper his sixties too many. The truth is that it goes to
:48:49. > :48:53.show that he has learned absolutely nothing from his appearances before
:48:53. > :48:58.the Commons select committees and the Leveson Inquiry. It is not good
:48:58. > :49:06.enough. Council tax, record low increases. I thought councils were
:49:06. > :49:10.struggling for many. Well, they are. My postbag shows that people are
:49:10. > :49:14.struggling. There is a responsibility not to put to the
:49:14. > :49:18.council tax of. Think we have to be able to justify spending and they
:49:18. > :49:21.need to put their spending plans out there. People are struggling
:49:21. > :49:24.and will struggle with a cuts we are seeing from the coalition
:49:24. > :49:29.government. That is a fact and we cannot get away from it. Councils
:49:29. > :49:33.have to act responsibly. For do you think there was a political
:49:33. > :49:37.dimension to the council tax rates this year, bearing in mind the
:49:37. > :49:42.council elections in May? There is bound to be a political damage in
:49:42. > :49:48.some ways but no short-term political manoeuvring come make-up
:49:48. > :49:51.for the fact that in at Rhondda Cynon Taf, it costs �200 more than
:49:51. > :49:57.a cadre of which is Liberal Democrat controlled. Over a period
:49:57. > :50:01.of years, people will want to see responsibility. Ending on a