:01:22. > :01:25.Coming up in Wales: As pied Cymru prepares to say farewell to its
:01:25. > :01:31.current leader, we discuss what next for the party.
:01:31. > :01:36.With the hustings over and voting under way, all three leadership
:01:36. > :01:46.contenders will flesh out their ideas and future vision. Join me
:01:46. > :01:46.
:01:46. > :35:30.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2024 seconds
:35:30. > :35:34.Hello, I'm Aled ap Dafydd. After more than 10 years leading Plaid
:35:34. > :35:37.Cymru, Dafydd Elis-Thomas says that his party should accept an
:35:37. > :35:42.opportunity to be backing government. He warns that leading
:35:42. > :35:48.the party can be a lonely existence. It is something one of these three
:35:48. > :35:56.will have to contend with. Elin Jones, Dafydd Elis-Thomas and
:35:56. > :36:00.Leanne Wood art competing to succeed Ieuan Wyn Jones. It has
:36:00. > :36:05.been a phenomenally positive experience for Plaid Cymru, this
:36:05. > :36:10.entire leadership election. We have had up to 1,500 people coming to
:36:10. > :36:18.meetings, engaging and debating politics. Our membership is up by
:36:18. > :36:21.23%. It is a shame we can't have a leadership election every year! It
:36:21. > :36:25.has been a very positive experience for the party. It has been tiring
:36:25. > :36:30.and quite hard work. We have been all over the country and I am quite
:36:30. > :36:34.glad that they are over. I wonder to what extent this has been a
:36:34. > :36:44.process of navel-gazing. Have you been able to reach out beyond the
:36:44. > :36:53.Kohl party support? -- call party support. We had a very good evening.
:36:53. > :36:58.It is upon YouTube. The party membership has increased. Has that
:36:58. > :37:03.been one of the main positive outcomes of this? It has been one
:37:03. > :37:07.of the positive outcomes. The fact that we have conducted ourselves as
:37:07. > :37:13.potential candidates, potential leaders of Plaid Cymru, in a very
:37:13. > :37:19.constructive debate with some policy differences, but on the hall,
:37:19. > :37:23.a clear direction. All of us emphasising the importance of the
:37:23. > :37:29.economy and strengthening the economy, and all of us wanting to
:37:29. > :37:33.see a more successful Wales, and Plaid Cymru's part in contributing
:37:34. > :37:37.to that. All three leadership hopefuls will be debating with one
:37:37. > :37:42.another shortly. But what of the current incumbent, who will
:37:42. > :37:45.officially step down on 15th March? Colleagues and opponents of the
:37:45. > :37:50.Ieuan Wyn Jones have described him as a man of integrity and a good
:37:50. > :37:54.listener. His political life in Cardiff Bay has seen many a twist
:37:54. > :37:58.and turn, as he told me when I spent a day with him on Anglesey,
:37:59. > :38:08.which she has represented at Westminster and the assembly, since
:38:09. > :38:09.
:38:09. > :38:13.A damp morning on Anglesey greets a politician who has celebrated a
:38:13. > :38:22.quarter of a century in Welsh public life. This Friday, it is
:38:22. > :38:26.constituency visit so -- visits, which has become a part of his life.
:38:26. > :38:35.On the weekends, you have to be on call all the time so it can be
:38:35. > :38:45.tiring. The furthest point possible from Cardiff Bay! Yes, I am. The
:38:45. > :38:48.
:38:48. > :38:55.travelling has East. I think people who criticise it, if they saw us on
:38:55. > :39:03.the journey, they would see it was a good mix. If we get up there, we
:39:03. > :39:09.can see it better. The first engagement of the day was surveying
:39:09. > :39:16.a new environment project, and Ieuan Wyn Jones has been more used
:39:16. > :39:21.to building bridges with his party. Plaid Cymru lost five seats in 2003
:39:21. > :39:24.and within a week, there were accusations of a plot to oust him
:39:24. > :39:28.as leader. He resigned as party president and leader of the
:39:28. > :39:34.assembly group, only to regain the position of party leader within a
:39:34. > :39:38.few months. But don't expect any talk of bearing grudges. Whenever a
:39:38. > :39:44.party leader is in a vulnerable position, they will always have
:39:44. > :39:48.people who want to try to take advantage of that. But that's
:39:48. > :39:54.politics. I am not criticising people for doing that because
:39:54. > :39:58.that's what politics is. Being a leader can be quite a lonely
:39:58. > :40:04.position to be in. There is always somebody who thinks they can do the
:40:04. > :40:08.job better than you, but that's life. I don't think that is unique
:40:08. > :40:15.to Plaid Cymru or to the parties in Wales. You must know who these
:40:15. > :40:20.people are. Do you bear a grudge? Had not at all. In life and in
:40:20. > :40:24.politics, you cannot afford to do that, because if you have had a bad
:40:25. > :40:32.election - if you have had a period of where there is tumult within the
:40:32. > :40:37.party - you have to live with it and move on. In four short years,
:40:37. > :40:42.the man at the brink of rejection by the party found the key to
:40:43. > :40:46.success. 2007 saw Plaid as a party of government. The Ieuan Wyn Jones
:40:46. > :40:51.was the first leader to take the party to those heights. This
:40:51. > :40:54.significant advantage of going into coalition with Labour was that as
:40:54. > :40:59.well as the progressive politics that we wanted on health, education
:40:59. > :41:03.and so on, we could secure constitutional change. That would
:41:03. > :41:08.not have been possible otherwise. There are lessons to be learned for
:41:08. > :41:12.any party in the coalition. The party had been out of power for 80
:41:12. > :41:17.years and had been nowhere near. I don't think anybody expected, even
:41:17. > :41:20.in 2007, that the party would be in government. Most of the political
:41:20. > :41:24.pundits said it would be a deal between Labour and Liberal
:41:24. > :41:28.Democrats. When it turned out that Plaid was going to go into the
:41:29. > :41:33.government, it was a big surprise to lots of people. So the party was
:41:33. > :41:36.learning, really, and I think there are lessons to be learned. I don't
:41:36. > :41:39.they go was the issue of constitutional change that was the
:41:39. > :41:49.determining factor. It is the way you conduct yourself within
:41:49. > :41:51.
:41:51. > :41:56.government. I think we spend enough time making sure that the federal
:41:56. > :42:01.machinery was given good attention. Seats were lost in May. The
:42:01. > :42:05.coalition came to an end and the lido disappeared for a holiday
:42:05. > :42:09.during the official opening of the Assembly. The criticism that
:42:09. > :42:15.followed has been a career low point. It did hurt, because I felt
:42:15. > :42:20.that I had represented the party for 25 years and hadn't missed a
:42:20. > :42:24.single event of importance. It was the first time that a opportunity
:42:24. > :42:28.to have a break with my family had come up. There are opportunities
:42:28. > :42:32.where frankly, you have to put your family first. They have been
:42:32. > :42:35.through the mill, with me through the ups and downs of politics and
:42:36. > :42:40.suddenly you find yourself with an opportunity to put them first, and
:42:40. > :42:44.I don't apologise for that at all. In less than three weeks, Plaid
:42:44. > :42:48.will have a new leader, but the outgoing one has a view on the
:42:48. > :42:52.future direction of travel. there was an opportunity for Plaid
:42:52. > :43:00.to go back into government, I think the party should accept that. I am
:43:00. > :43:03.not suggesting that should happen immediately but the party has to be
:43:04. > :43:07.looking to be in government. That should be its mission because I
:43:07. > :43:11.believe that further constitutional change, all significant
:43:11. > :43:16.constitutional change, can only happen if Plaid is part of the
:43:16. > :43:22.government of Wales. Will it be back in government before the next
:43:22. > :43:26.election? I can't predict whether that will happen or not. It could
:43:26. > :43:30.be, yes, but it depends on the circumstances. Something else which
:43:30. > :43:36.is food for thought is what does the future hold for a Ieuan Wyn
:43:36. > :43:39.Jones. After March 15th, it is life on the backbenches, but any talk of
:43:39. > :43:46.standing for office again is a matter for family discussion. One
:43:46. > :43:51.senses, however, that after searching -- serving as an MP, he
:43:51. > :43:54.might just call it a day in 2016. That was the outgoing leader of
:43:54. > :43:58.Plaid Cymru talking to be on Anglesey. Now let's hear from those
:43:58. > :44:05.who want to succeed him. Leanne Wood, if you were to give ye and
:44:05. > :44:12.Wynne-Jones a score out of 10, what would you give him. -- you Ieuan
:44:12. > :44:16.Wyn Jones. I would probably go for around the seven or eight mark. I
:44:16. > :44:22.think we would not have had the resounding success in the
:44:22. > :44:26.referendum that was brought last March if it had not been for
:44:26. > :44:33.Ieuan's work, and the way that he insured that Plaid was in
:44:33. > :44:38.government with Labour. That referendum formed a central part of
:44:38. > :44:42.the One of Wales agreement. That has really ensured that devolution
:44:42. > :44:50.has embedded in Wales now. Very few people are talking about abolishing
:44:50. > :44:54.the assembly, apart from a few voices on the fringes and getting...
:44:55. > :45:03.And if I was to get a seven, it would say that I could do better.
:45:03. > :45:07.What could he have done better? would like to have seen a much
:45:07. > :45:11.clearer unique selling-point put to people in the last election. I
:45:11. > :45:15.think that had we been able to put something clearly different from
:45:15. > :45:20.the other parties, then we might have seen at our results be
:45:20. > :45:26.slightly better. Having said that, we thought that election two months
:45:26. > :45:31.after the referendum. All of our effort and resources went into that
:45:31. > :45:34.referendum. Developing a new narrative with in two months was
:45:34. > :45:40.always going to be very difficult, which is another wheeze and why we
:45:40. > :45:43.were pushing for an autumn referendum. -- reason. Ieuan is
:45:43. > :45:46.retiring and I think we need to give him a pat on the back for
:45:46. > :45:51.achieving that very important referendum result. Dafydd Elis-
:45:51. > :45:58.Thomas. Seven out of 10 for taking us out of the darkness, where we
:45:58. > :46:02.had been for 80 years. You would not do anything different a? A no,
:46:02. > :46:09.because that was transformational. But politics will never be the same
:46:09. > :46:16.again. Now people are realising what it is like to the outside of
:46:16. > :46:22.government and be left outside. he deserves that score, what
:46:22. > :46:26.happened last May? The campaign that we had last May it seemed to
:46:26. > :46:34.have conveniently forgotten that we had been in government. I could not
:46:34. > :46:38.believe it. He was the leader. Is it collective responsibility?
:46:38. > :46:42.but the theme of the campaign was Labour bashing, which I think the
:46:42. > :46:48.worst people can no longer tolerate. Politics is not about attacking
:46:48. > :46:54.other parties. 80% of the message is going out from the party, still,
:46:54. > :47:00.is negative - attacking other people. Elin Jones, a score out of
:47:00. > :47:05.10. I will go for nine out of 10. I agree with the reason Dafydd Elis-
:47:05. > :47:09.Thomas has given. The Ieuan Wyn Jones took this party for the first
:47:09. > :47:14.time ever into national government, changed the party from the
:47:14. > :47:19.perception that too many people had had of us as a fringe protest party,
:47:19. > :47:22.into a party that stands for election, in order to seek
:47:22. > :47:26.government and to deliver on that the content of its manifesto. That
:47:26. > :47:31.is what we should be in every election that we stand, including
:47:31. > :47:36.the local elections coming up in May, where we will seek to govern
:47:36. > :47:40.locally right across Wales. We have heard two of the other contenders
:47:40. > :47:46.criticised the message that was put out during a's election. A I think
:47:46. > :47:49.I am right in saying that you were one of the ones responsible for
:47:49. > :47:59.communicating that. Do you take responsibility? -- it made's
:47:59. > :48:03.collection. I disagree with Dafydd Elis-Thomas's message. He only had
:48:03. > :48:08.part of the message if he only heard Labour bashing. We had
:48:08. > :48:16.substance, but the policy ideas put to the electorate one and number of
:48:16. > :48:20.key areas of responsibility for the Welsh a government. Yes, we
:48:20. > :48:24.undertook a degree of opposition to the other political parties,
:48:24. > :48:32.including Labour at that point. If we look back out what happened in
:48:32. > :48:36.the last election - and I agree to an extent with what Leanne said
:48:36. > :48:41.earlier. A criticism of us in government could be that we did not
:48:41. > :48:45.take enough care of a party at that point, and a lesson for the next
:48:45. > :48:50.leader that takes Plaid Cymru into government is that a political
:48:50. > :48:55.leader has to look after the party, the state of the party, as well as
:48:55. > :48:59.a contribution to government. move on to substance and policy.
:48:59. > :49:03.The main area of concern for many people is the economy. We have
:49:04. > :49:08.unprecedented levels of unemployment, high levels of youth
:49:08. > :49:12.unemployment. What would be your remedy? I have said that the
:49:12. > :49:21.economy should become Plaid Cymru's top priority - but we should do
:49:21. > :49:24.everything we can to pull together our friends outside the party to
:49:24. > :49:32.produce a long-term economic plan, designed to turn around the
:49:32. > :49:36.situation in the world economy. All effort has to go into creating jobs
:49:36. > :49:40.and expanding the private sector - in particular the small-business
:49:40. > :49:45.sector. If every small business in Wales took on one apprentice or new
:49:45. > :49:52.worker, we could resolve the youth unemployment problem. I have put a
:49:52. > :49:57.lot of ideas out there. I have five policy papers on my website. Some
:49:57. > :50:01.ideas are about creating jobs, particularly for young people, but
:50:01. > :50:05.all of our effort and best brains needs to go into producing this
:50:05. > :50:10.long-term economic plan. I have heard you talk a lot about the
:50:10. > :50:14.model of corporate Yves. And a bad model, the bosses are paid an
:50:14. > :50:23.average about five times more than the lowest-paid worker. Is that
:50:23. > :50:32.something you would like to be a working model? -- under it that
:50:32. > :50:37.model. In terms of the pay scale, in particular. I have called for a
:50:37. > :50:40.public sector minimum wage scheme, in order to ensure fairness. The
:50:41. > :50:45.cuts are hitting the public sector now and we have a bigger public
:50:46. > :50:50.sector in Wales, so the cuts are impacting in Wales more. Those cuts
:50:50. > :50:57.are impacting on the people who are a listing comes on the whole. What
:50:57. > :51:04.I have called for is a maximum scheme for the public sector. --
:51:04. > :51:10.who will Arc on it that lowest incomes. If readers are introduced
:51:10. > :51:18.at the lower ranks, they should equally apply at the higher ranks.
:51:18. > :51:22.-- wages. We have 134,000 people unemployed in Wales, at a rate of
:51:23. > :51:28.about 9% - which is higher than the UK average. How can you get those
:51:28. > :51:31.people back into work? The key thing is to have serious levels of
:51:31. > :51:35.commercial private sector investment, starting with those
:51:36. > :51:42.sectors of the economy which are absolutely essential and growing -
:51:42. > :51:48.even in the situation of this recession. Particularly energy. I
:51:48. > :51:55.am hoping to see an announcement this week of a reactor type, which
:51:55. > :52:04.has a very important issue for day and when James and for myself. --
:52:04. > :52:12.you I am a winner Jones. -- Ieuan Wyn Jones. It will do carbonised
:52:12. > :52:17.the grid. That will create a substantially new jobs. During the
:52:17. > :52:21.last election, Plaid were advocating the bill for Wales plan
:52:21. > :52:28.policy. Was that communicated well enough and would that be the
:52:28. > :52:32.forefront of your economic renewal plan? It was possibly not used well
:52:32. > :52:39.enough by Plaid Cymru and we did not seem to get that message across
:52:39. > :52:43.to the individual voter. We have progressed with that now in the
:52:43. > :52:50.assembly. Labour are taking on aspects of that but not doing that
:52:50. > :52:57.with enough enthusiasm, and certainly without success. We need
:52:57. > :53:03.to see a government hearing Wales looking to use the ability that it
:53:04. > :53:10.does have an seek extra powers to build an infrastructure investment
:53:10. > :53:14.fund, so that we can get public sector investment creating a
:53:15. > :53:18.stronger economic impact in the wider economy. The fact that the
:53:18. > :53:23.public sector is reducing as it is - and reducing in terms of its
:53:23. > :53:29.building projects, in particular - is having a Cygnet killer -- a
:53:29. > :53:35.significant knock-on effect. It is likely to do so for the next 10
:53:35. > :53:38.years. We have had innovative ideas as a party and we want to see the
:53:38. > :53:43.government that is in situ now in Wales taking on board some of those
:53:43. > :53:48.ideas. They would have the impact on the economy that we think is
:53:48. > :53:53.necessary to have. Dafydd Elis- Thomas said that it is important
:53:53. > :54:00.that Wales uses its energy potential to create jobs. One of
:54:00. > :54:04.the key debates is around nuclear. We know that Elin Jones and Leanne
:54:04. > :54:07.Wood are against nuclear. Would you be saying the same thing if so many
:54:07. > :54:11.jobs in your particular constituency depended on the
:54:11. > :54:15.nuclear industry? The leader of Plaid Cymru has to consider the
:54:15. > :54:21.whole of Wales and you cannot consider national issues from a
:54:21. > :54:26.local perspective like that. I think that from that perspective, I
:54:26. > :54:30.don't think it is in Wales's best interests to go ahead with a new
:54:30. > :54:33.nuclear power station. Plaid Cymru members feel that way as well, and
:54:33. > :54:38.that is why they have consistently voted that way at annual
:54:38. > :54:44.conferences. That is not the case. As you know, at the last conference,
:54:44. > :54:48.what has been repeated in the National Assembly was repeated - we
:54:48. > :54:53.accept renewal of reactors in existing sites to maintain
:54:53. > :55:00.employment and to continue D colonising the grid. --
:55:00. > :55:10.uncolonising. They still has not been a solution to the problem of
:55:10. > :55:10.
:55:10. > :55:15.nuclear waste but if there is a decision for a renewal in Ynys Mon,
:55:15. > :55:18.I am a pragmatic politician and I would like to see authorities and
:55:18. > :55:23.that Beria work to ensure that the young people and others in that
:55:23. > :55:27.area can take advantage of the economic potential. -- area. That
:55:27. > :55:31.is the reality of the situation we are in. It is not where I would
:55:31. > :55:36.want us to be in but that is the reality on Ynys Mon and we need to
:55:36. > :55:42.work with that. Can we discuss the future of nails as a -- Wales as an
:55:42. > :55:50.Asian and a country? Has Plaid Cymru become a concert that nobody
:55:50. > :55:53.in the party has quite been able to elaborate upon? There is a unity of
:55:53. > :56:00.message from the three of us and from the members that we have
:56:00. > :56:05.taught to over the past few weeks. -- talk to. Plaid Cymru wants to
:56:05. > :56:10.see Wales as a successful independent company. -- country. We
:56:10. > :56:18.need to be clearer about what we see as apart deep to be the route
:56:19. > :56:22.map for Wales for that aspiration. -- as a party. Then the important
:56:22. > :56:29.thing is to engage with the people of Wales and engage out of Wales,
:56:29. > :56:33.with people on the how or Wales strengthens our legislative and
:56:33. > :56:37.fiscal powers, to enable us at some point to become that successful
:56:38. > :56:42.independent country. Everybody is talking about the independence
:56:42. > :56:49.referendum in Scotland. I want to talk about the future of Wales.
:56:49. > :56:53.That is what is really important for us here as a party, and we need
:56:53. > :56:57.to clearly define what we mean by that, and the steps to independence
:56:57. > :57:01.in Wales. But more importantly, we need to engage with the people of
:57:01. > :57:04.Wales and win further support for the concept and reality of how life
:57:04. > :57:10.could be better in an independent Wales. We have not yet seen fiscal
:57:10. > :57:15.devolution in Wales. Are these the steps that need to be taken for
:57:15. > :57:19.your party to be talking about independence? I don't think we
:57:19. > :57:24.should be waiting for a UK commission yet again. I think we
:57:24. > :57:28.have to put clearly on the agenda, in response to what has happened in
:57:28. > :57:31.Scotland. We know the question in Scotland now and we know the date,
:57:31. > :57:37.if the UK government does not interfere - and I would advise them
:57:37. > :57:40.not to interfere. The people of Scotland have a right to self-
:57:40. > :57:46.determination and that must be honoured. As a result of that
:57:46. > :57:49.question in Scotland, there will be changes, whatever happens, in the
:57:50. > :57:52.United Kingdom. The United Kingdom is being transformed and is
:57:52. > :58:00.disappearing out of history in a very important way and we have to
:58:00. > :58:03.square out -- square up to that. There are some statistics on a Web
:58:03. > :58:12.site about the number of people in Wales who are in favour of
:58:12. > :58:22.independence. It is 32% and according to that, 33% of Plaid
:58:22. > :58:25.
:58:25. > :58:28.voters want to have that. That is a poll for ITV. Only a third of your
:58:28. > :58:36.party wants to see independence if these figures are to be believed.
:58:36. > :58:40.You have got a long way to go, having to, -- have you not, to tell
:58:40. > :58:42.the people of Wales that you are going in the right direction?
:58:43. > :58:46.not surprised by those figures because the case for Welsh
:58:46. > :58:50.independence has not been put and we need to develop our unique
:58:50. > :58:56.selling point, and that his independence. We need to build the
:58:56. > :58:59.economic case. That is the thing that people will always say - we
:58:59. > :59:03.can't afford independence. There is no reason why we cannot. Every
:59:03. > :59:06.other nation can afford independence. As long as we
:59:06. > :59:11.strengthen our economy, get more people into work, grow the private
:59:11. > :59:15.sector, there is no reason why we cannot afford independence. That is
:59:15. > :59:25.why we need to put all our effort into the economic plan. That
:59:25. > :59:27.addresses people's plans from where they are. Elin Jones has said two
:59:27. > :59:34.successful elections and then pop the question - what is your
:59:34. > :59:37.timeline? I have not got a firm view on that. I think as soon as
:59:38. > :59:43.possible for stop that could mean tomorrow or 20 years for stop we
:59:43. > :59:48.will not go anywhere without the people of Wales coming with us. We
:59:48. > :59:54.need to convince people it is in their interests to vote yes. Dafydd
:59:55. > :59:58.Elis-Thomas? I spent 12 years as presiding officer, painfully
:59:59. > :00:05.building up Wales. I do not believe in time lanes. You have to take the
:00:05. > :00:09.people with you. Plaid Cymru lost seats in May. What makes you think
:00:09. > :00:16.you could actually be in government on your own after the likes to
:00:16. > :00:18.election? -- next election. Politics it is all about a
:00:18. > :00:23.remarkable turnarounds and I believe that with the connection of
:00:23. > :00:29.the right message for us in having a national ambition, and also
:00:29. > :00:33.working on policies, which connect people in their everyday lives - so
:00:33. > :00:38.that people see that we are about improving the individual family
:00:38. > :00:43.community lot, as well as having a national aspiration - then we can
:00:43. > :00:49.make the case for Plaid Cymru. seconds each on a future coalition
:00:49. > :00:53.before the next election. I don't think that it is likely to happen
:00:53. > :00:58.but as a party of government, we should always - if the
:00:58. > :01:04.circumstances mean that that should happen - take those decisions based
:01:04. > :01:08.on the circumstances at the time. This present was government has 30
:01:08. > :01:12.seats out of 60. It needs all the help it can get on the right terms.
:01:12. > :01:15.If there was a progressive programme that would move Wales on
:01:15. > :01:20.in the direction we would want to go, yes, but I cannot see how
:01:20. > :01:24.Labour could offer that to us at the moment. The hustings came to an
:01:24. > :01:34.end last week but a lot more happened beyond that in Welsh
:01:34. > :01:36.
:01:36. > :01:39.politics. Here is Adrian with a MPs on the Welsh Affairs Select
:01:39. > :01:43.Committee urged the Welsh government to consider bringing
:01:43. > :01:49.back the Welsh Development Agency brand to sharpen Wales's global
:01:49. > :01:52.identity. The agency was abolished in 2006. The assembly's Public
:01:52. > :01:57.Accounts Committee Chair said he received letters with further
:01:57. > :02:03.allegations about how organisations managed to their funds.
:02:03. > :02:09.Investigations into the running of an organisation are continuing.
:02:09. > :02:14.Tributes were paid to the former leader of the Welsh Labour Party,
:02:14. > :02:18.Hooper has died. He was MP of Montgomerie Show between 1952 and
:02:18. > :02:22.1979. The SNP said bank closures were
:02:22. > :02:26.making it increasingly difficult for people in rural areas to access
:02:26. > :02:30.branches. -- this member of parliament.
:02:30. > :02:35.There were warnings that his decay in Wales was among the worst in the
:02:35. > :02:42.UK. Parents were said to need more support to help keep children's
:02:42. > :02:45.teeth healthy. -- tooth decay. We have talked at length about the
:02:45. > :02:49.economy. One of the major talking points this week was the idea
:02:49. > :02:52.floated by the Welsh Affairs Committee to breathe new life into
:02:52. > :02:57.the Welsh Development Agency to boost the economy. Is that
:02:57. > :03:00.something you would like to see? There does need to be some
:03:00. > :03:05.concerted action on the economy of Wales but I am not convinced that
:03:05. > :03:09.bringing back the WDA is the answer. There are lot of rose-tinted
:03:09. > :03:13.spectacles looking back at what that is about and I remember at the
:03:13. > :03:18.time there being a lot of criticism and the hall quangos debate came
:03:18. > :03:23.for a reason. But I do think that there needs to beat some new body
:03:23. > :03:28.of people that pulls together all the best brains and talents to put
:03:28. > :03:31.together a long term the economic plan. We also talked about some
:03:32. > :03:36.obstacles - the fact that the Westminster government is not
:03:36. > :03:40.talking to be others. Someone refused to give evidence to the
:03:40. > :03:47.committee. You are shaking your head. Welsh MPs have to breathe
:03:47. > :03:51.some more life into themselves. I say good luck to them. The Welsh
:03:51. > :03:56.minister reports to us. statistics are quite startling it
:03:57. > :03:59.in terms of the amount of companies that were in Wales that have
:03:59. > :04:02.disappeared. How can we get them back? We would not get the same
:04:03. > :04:08.ones bad because they have gone and but for low wage economies
:04:08. > :04:13.elsewhere. I think the focus for the Welsh government should be to
:04:13. > :04:18.build up on the natural advantages and the university areas of
:04:18. > :04:24.excellence that we have in Wales. That has to be the focus for the
:04:24. > :04:29.future, not basing ourselves as a low wage economy but as a high-
:04:29. > :04:33.growth economy. That is the potential for the future. The
:04:33. > :04:40.structures at this point in time are not what we focus on. It is the