:01:08. > :01:14.As the price of petrol reaches record highs, Shadow Chancellor cut
:01:14. > :01:22.fuel duty? Be paid for head and a green campaigner a goal head to
:01:22. > :01:25.head. -- a petrol head. Later in the programme: It's the
:01:25. > :01:27.Kirsty and Nick show at the Welsh Liberal Democrats conference. The
:01:27. > :01:37.Deputy Prime Minister tells delegates that the party needs
:01:37. > :01:37.
:01:37. > :31:14.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1776 seconds
:31:14. > :31:18.courage to see through difficult Hello, I'm Aled ap Dafydd and on
:31:18. > :31:21.Sunday Politics Wales we speak to the Deputy Prime Minister Nick
:31:21. > :31:27.Clegg about the three toxic reforming bills in Parliament. And
:31:27. > :31:31.how old she do be before being eligible to vote? Presiding Officer
:31:31. > :31:35.Rosemary Butler tells us that a debate about lowering the age to 16
:31:35. > :31:39.should start now. -- Deputy Presiding Officer.
:31:39. > :31:44.We have Conservative MP Kay Swinburne and Liberal-Democrat AM
:31:44. > :31:48.Aled Roberts. In the news this morning, a call
:31:48. > :31:53.from the Mayor of London for for there to be a National Insurance
:31:54. > :31:58.holiday. How likely is the Chancellor likely -- to grant such
:31:58. > :32:02.a wish in the upcoming budget? People are calling for all sorts of
:32:02. > :32:06.tax cuts at the moment, and everybody is saying it is to
:32:06. > :32:10.stimulate the economy. One tax cut I would support would be anything
:32:10. > :32:16.but lowers the cost of employing people, so we get that directly to
:32:16. > :32:20.the front line of employers, but my problem is that I cannot see where
:32:20. > :32:23.the money will come from, and I have to trust that the Treasury and
:32:23. > :32:27.the Chancellor in particular have done their sums correctly, and if
:32:27. > :32:31.they can do it, I hope that is the one they would target.
:32:31. > :32:38.I suppose there is always the question of taking with one hand
:32:38. > :32:44.and giving with the other. Would you be in favour of such a holiday?
:32:44. > :32:49.Obviously we also want to see a lowering of the tax threshold, or
:32:49. > :32:53.ignoring of income tax, and the reality is that money is tight and
:32:53. > :32:56.I cannot see that everybody's aspirations will be settled for.
:32:56. > :33:01.It is the Welsh Liberal Democrat spring conference this weekend in
:33:01. > :33:06.Cardiff, the main speaker yesterday was a man who does not win
:33:06. > :33:10.political popularity contests, Nick Clegg. With only five AMs and 8% of
:33:10. > :33:15.the seats at Westminster, he can however claim that the party is
:33:15. > :33:20.punching above its weight. But to what extent at the Lib Dems sold
:33:20. > :33:23.out to their UK coalition partners? I spoke to him about the reforming
:33:24. > :33:29.bills going through Parliament, and asked him if he was obsessed with
:33:29. > :33:33.one of them - that of Lords reform. There are many more things in life
:33:34. > :33:38.that I think a more important than House of Lords reform, I care much
:33:38. > :33:45.more about changing the tax system so that people on low pay keep more
:33:45. > :33:49.money in their pockets. I care more about pupil premium, a policy I
:33:49. > :33:52.championed for years, and about our triple lock guarantee for
:33:52. > :33:56.pensioners which is giving pensioners across the country the
:33:56. > :34:00.largest cash increase in a generation. Of course those things
:34:00. > :34:03.are more important to me. But I am not the one getting particularly
:34:03. > :34:08.excited about this, the people getting excited about this are
:34:08. > :34:13.people who do not want any change at all. All the time I think we
:34:13. > :34:17.will see the onus is not on people like me, it is all those people who
:34:17. > :34:21.seem to think that for some reason the one thing we cannot possibly
:34:21. > :34:29.reform is the House of Lords, and I think the more people look at the
:34:29. > :34:32.way the house of Lords is, and discover that over 70% of the
:34:32. > :34:38.people there are put there because they are the friends and colleagues
:34:38. > :34:42.of party leaders. It is stuffed full of the colleagues of party
:34:42. > :34:50.leaders, they are not dead because of the choices of ordinary people.
:34:50. > :34:54.The more people see that, the more they want to change it. A poll
:34:54. > :35:01.commissioned by BBC Wales last week said that the majority of those who
:35:01. > :35:05.were surveyed favoured the approach of the Welsh Government. If Kirsty
:35:05. > :35:15.Williams was to be on the side of the mainstream view, she would
:35:15. > :35:21.criticise you, would not she? have to look at what is best for
:35:21. > :35:29.patients. And the evidence is abundantly clear that under Labour,
:35:29. > :35:37.the NHS is worse in Wales than it is in England, waiting times are
:35:38. > :35:46.worse... A if you ask people, do you like a piece of legislation
:35:46. > :35:49.that changes the NHS, people react with some anxiety, but I think the
:35:49. > :35:54.responsibility of people in Government, whether Cardiff and
:35:54. > :35:58.London, is not simply to ask a question and say, therefore we are
:35:58. > :36:01.not changing anything - look at what works for patients, and the
:36:01. > :36:11.basic idea at the core of village a station which we are debating at
:36:11. > :36:15.
:36:15. > :36:19.Westminster, is simply this - to give people, you and I, a greater
:36:19. > :36:25.say about what happens when we leave the doctor's surgery. That is
:36:25. > :36:29.the basic idea, I think it is a good idea, I except it is
:36:29. > :36:33.controversial, but I certainly think that Labour has a lot to
:36:33. > :36:39.answer for for delivering worse health outcomes in the NHS here in
:36:39. > :36:46.Wales, compared to what patients - recruit received in England.
:36:46. > :36:50.Appalled published last week among health organisations claimed that
:36:50. > :36:56.one in four of the Welsh population will be affected by the Welfare
:36:56. > :37:04.Reform Bill. It is a big change, and except that, because what we
:37:04. > :37:08.are essentially doing is sweeping together these -- This great
:37:08. > :37:12.complex maze of different individual benefits, simplifying
:37:12. > :37:17.them into one benefit, the Universal credit, and making sure
:37:17. > :37:22.that when you receive that it always pays to work. Of course that
:37:22. > :37:27.is controversial, and I totally understand that organisations who
:37:27. > :37:32.are familiar with the existing system do not like change.
:37:32. > :37:35.knock on effect according to them is that 20% of the Welsh purchasing
:37:35. > :37:41.power on the High Street will disappear, that is �2 billion out
:37:41. > :37:45.of the Welsh economy, as a result of these �17 billion of savings.
:37:45. > :37:49.think that statistic is only meaningful if you've think the
:37:49. > :37:53.weight the Welsh economy should be run is by having a large map of
:37:53. > :37:57.people depended for their income on benefits. We think that if you want
:37:57. > :38:00.to improve purchasing power in Wales, and the livelihoods of many
:38:01. > :38:08.Welsh people, if you want to improve the Welsh economy, you have
:38:08. > :38:11.to get people into work. Our Hall benefits reforms are based on the
:38:11. > :38:20.simple insight that it should always pay to work. At the moment,
:38:20. > :38:24.it doesn't. Aled Roberts is here. How difficult is it for you as a
:38:24. > :38:28.party decide any different to the party of the lady next to you?
:38:28. > :38:34.have different ideals, but the reality is in a coalition you come
:38:34. > :38:38.to agreement between two parties and you agree a platform. It is
:38:38. > :38:42.easy, we can adopt the attitude of the Welsh Government to introduce
:38:42. > :38:45.very little in legislation and changed very little, all we can
:38:45. > :38:50.tackle some of the issues that have probably needed to be tackled for
:38:50. > :38:55.many years. Would you say that the commission
:38:55. > :38:59.is sitting knew perfectly - there was some initial outrage from the
:38:59. > :39:03.Lib Dems when it came to tuition fees and welfare reform, but
:39:03. > :39:07.ultimately David Cameron is having his way on these? A any
:39:07. > :39:12.Conservative Party member would berate me for agreeing that that is
:39:12. > :39:17.the case. They would prefer to have no commission and to have an app
:39:17. > :39:22.might majority Government in Westminster... But is he a
:39:22. > :39:29.pushover? There are many backbenchers that believe they have
:39:29. > :39:33.a disproportionate influence. I think there is a middle way here. A
:39:33. > :39:36.coalition is just that - we have the two North Hagley Park parties
:39:36. > :39:41.coming to an agreement on what the platform will be, and I think
:39:41. > :39:45.attributing blame on credit to one side or the other is inappropriate.
:39:45. > :39:50.We are in a bad place in terms of economics, and the need to see
:39:50. > :39:54.through the plans put in place, at the outset of that coalition.
:39:54. > :40:00.Clegg is calling on your party to show courage. Is that an admission
:40:00. > :40:04.that you are making very unpopular decisions at Westminster level?
:40:04. > :40:08.Economic situation this country finds itself is very difficult.
:40:08. > :40:13.That means that difficult decisions have to be taken - we need to get
:40:13. > :40:18.the cost of borrowing down, more importantly we have to deal with
:40:19. > :40:22.issues probably for decades will we have large elements in our
:40:22. > :40:28.population becoming reliant on benefits. You were at that report
:40:28. > :40:31.launched - I got the feeling it was uncomfortable for you having to
:40:31. > :40:36.justify a �17 billion of savings, a lot of money going out of the Welsh
:40:36. > :40:40.economy. It is important at a politician that I do not go along
:40:40. > :40:44.to meetings think -- thinking I will hear what I want to hear. I
:40:44. > :40:49.think a lot of the devil is in the detail, but the reality is the
:40:49. > :40:53.welfare bill to a large degree is out of control. Expenditure on
:40:53. > :41:00.housing benefit has increased from �11 billion to �21 billion in the
:41:00. > :41:03.last ten years. Something has to be done. And we also have to accept
:41:03. > :41:08.that there are large estates throughout Wales where generations
:41:08. > :41:13.are growing up with no expectation of work, and we need to tackle that
:41:13. > :41:16.issue, while still ensuring that does who are most disadvantaged do
:41:16. > :41:21.not suffer disproportionately from the actions that the Government is
:41:21. > :41:26.having to take out at Westminster. Can I have a critique from the Lib
:41:26. > :41:31.Dems from another political party. The leader of Cardiff council has
:41:31. > :41:35.said the worst is over in terms of the backlash from Robert -- Lib
:41:35. > :41:39.Dems. Do you think that is right in the context of May's local
:41:39. > :41:43.elections? We need to focus on what makes a difference structurally for
:41:43. > :41:48.the Welsh electorate, and concentrate on the big issues of
:41:48. > :41:50.welfare and NHS structures, to see us through to the future. Getting
:41:50. > :41:57.diverted on House of Lords reform is something we cannot afford to do
:41:57. > :42:01.right now. The House of Lords is functioning, and it has been an
:42:01. > :42:05.unexpected surprise to me on the positive, because they engage with
:42:05. > :42:09.legislation from Europe at a level that Westminster do not do. So for
:42:09. > :42:13.me the house of Lords is not a priority - let us focus on the big
:42:13. > :42:17.issues that we need to focus on to put his country back on the growth
:42:17. > :42:22.path. I think the condition is functioning, we need to keep
:42:22. > :42:27.ourselves on that track. This time last year Wales "came of
:42:27. > :42:29.age" according to the First Minister Carwyn Jones, as the
:42:29. > :42:35.Senedd acquired new responsibilities after the Yes
:42:35. > :42:38.fault. The Labour am Rosemary Butler became the new Presiding
:42:38. > :42:43.Officer. She has been telling our reporter had the Assembly has been
:42:43. > :42:49.raising its game, and why she feels it is time to consider lowering the
:42:49. > :42:54.voting age to 16. Rosemary Butler at a St David's day
:42:54. > :43:02.event in this -- Senedd. It is part of her role as an ambassador for
:43:02. > :43:07.all things Wales. When I met her, I suggested that the expectations
:43:07. > :43:12.built up in the powers referendum a year ago had not yet been lived up
:43:12. > :43:15.to. My job is to make sure that the systems in place here at the
:43:15. > :43:20.Assembly deal with legislation as it comes through, because it is
:43:20. > :43:24.important we have these new primary law-making powers. It is important
:43:24. > :43:29.that the laws actually made are the best ones for the people in Wales.
:43:29. > :43:33.But I have been busy this last year introducing new systems, and
:43:33. > :43:37.encouraging backbenchers to introduce their own legislation. We
:43:37. > :43:42.have had two pieces of legislation accepted - one of raising the age
:43:42. > :43:48.of young people leaving care from 16 to 18, and another one on mobile
:43:48. > :43:51.homes in static caravan parks. Yesterday I announced another piece
:43:51. > :43:57.of backbench legislation. I am also encouraging backbenchers to get
:43:58. > :44:01.involved in their own debates. We have now a system where members
:44:01. > :44:04.from three parties get together, and they can introduce their own
:44:04. > :44:08.debate. All year round Rosemary Butler
:44:08. > :44:11.seems to promote awareness of what goes on in Cardiff Bay,
:44:11. > :44:20.particularly amongst young people. She believes it is time to consider
:44:20. > :44:25.allowing them to be able to vote sooner. Our at which people have
:44:25. > :44:29.been to more than 300 schools, and when I see people at the shows, I
:44:29. > :44:33.ask them what they talk about one youth councils. Nobody ever
:44:33. > :44:38.mentions the voting system, and I am trying to encourage them to look
:44:38. > :44:43.at it, whether we should vote best 16 or 18. They have introduced it
:44:43. > :44:48.in the Isle of Man and in Jersey, and some people are afraid of it
:44:48. > :44:54.and other people think, and 16 I have my job, so it is an
:44:54. > :44:58.interesting debate. You see a lot of young people, do
:44:58. > :45:02.you think they are up to it? They are certainly up to it, whether
:45:02. > :45:10.they have the confidence to do it is a different matter. But that
:45:10. > :45:15.goes for the whole of the population. Howley finding the job?
:45:15. > :45:19.It is very exciting and is a great privilege to do the job, but no two
:45:19. > :45:27.days are the same. This week I have had women from Jordan and Libya,
:45:27. > :45:32.this morning the Mr Speaker -- the Speaker, and then there is a
:45:32. > :45:37.meeting with my counterpart in Northern Ireland, so it really is
:45:37. > :45:42.fascinating, and some days it is really enjoyable, other days it is
:45:42. > :45:49.really busy, and I think, I am I going to survive the day?
:45:49. > :45:56.This idea of widening our democracy so that 16-year-olds can vote, is
:45:56. > :46:01.that a good idea? The actual voting record of those between 18 and 24
:46:01. > :46:05.is that -- is at the poorer end of the spectrum, so we need to find
:46:05. > :46:10.ways of incoming -- encouraging everybody to use that democratic
:46:10. > :46:15.right. If we can do that, I think it will be the time to explore the
:46:15. > :46:22.16 to 18 Group, but at the moment we are getting it very wrong.
:46:22. > :46:27.Across Europe, less than 30% are registering votes. At the moment
:46:27. > :46:32.the other in -- only country in the EU that has got a voting age of 16
:46:32. > :46:37.is Austria, who introduced it in 2007. Around the world I think
:46:37. > :46:41.there are five countries who operate at 16 - there must have
:46:41. > :46:45.come to a collective consensus of 18. So we need to that broadly at
:46:45. > :46:49.who votes and why, and then find mechanisms to improve that, and
:46:49. > :46:53.once we have got that sorted and get at least half the population
:46:53. > :46:59.voting, I think we can look at what measures might get the voting age
:46:59. > :47:03.down. Turnout is low, so shouldn't we be engaging with those who
:47:03. > :47:09.currently have the right to box rather than looking at getting more
:47:09. > :47:12.people into boasts the numbers? party has always voted for lowering
:47:12. > :47:16.the voting age, but I think the biggest issue is convincing people
:47:16. > :47:21.that voting in the Assembly actually makes a difference. What
:47:21. > :47:26.surprised me up to now is that the presiding officer talked about two
:47:26. > :47:30.private member's bill -- bills being introduced. If you look at
:47:30. > :47:35.education, health, a whole raft of issues the SNB has control of an
:47:35. > :47:39.hour, what we have to ask ourselves now is what difference Abbott makes
:47:39. > :47:43.an what the Government is doing to change the situation? The Presiding
:47:43. > :47:49.Officer is coming up to a year in the job - seen as a very different
:47:49. > :47:56.presiding officer to Daffyd Ellis Thomas. Do you favour her approach
:47:56. > :47:58.of his? I have not experienced Lord Thomas as presiding officer, I have
:47:58. > :48:05.always find the current presiding officer to be very fair and I think
:48:05. > :48:12.she is doing a good job. It's very diplomatic answer.
:48:12. > :48:22.Time now for a look back out a week in 60 seconds. This is a warning
:48:22. > :48:26.
:48:26. > :48:31.As in David's Bay opinion poll suggested support for independence
:48:32. > :48:36.was week, with just 7% backing it. The First Minister hosted by St
:48:36. > :48:43.David's big event in Brussels, saying he wanted Wales to be a
:48:43. > :48:46.strong partner in Europe, but his - - but part of a strong United
:48:46. > :48:51.Kingdom to for. The Prime Minister laid on a
:48:51. > :48:56.reception at ten Downing Street, and in Cardiff Bay around 500
:48:56. > :49:00.people gathered outside the Senedd to protest against possible changes
:49:00. > :49:04.at a hospital in Aberystwyth. The Health Minister stressed there were
:49:04. > :49:08.no plans to close on downgrade the hospital.
:49:08. > :49:12.Open -- opening debate in the Commons, Labour's Paul Murphy
:49:13. > :49:17.criticised the UK Government's plans to cut the number of Welsh
:49:17. > :49:27.MPs from 40-30. Cheryl Gillan presented Neil
:49:27. > :49:30.
:49:30. > :49:35.Griffiths with a bouquet of Time for a few quick closing
:49:35. > :49:40.remarks. The First Minister Carwyn Jones was in Brussels last week.
:49:40. > :49:44.How badly his Wales's voice being heard in Europe? I think its
:49:44. > :49:49.profile has massively increased over the years, but I think our
:49:49. > :49:56.rugby team has succeeded in raising our profile higher than any of our
:49:57. > :50:00.politicians have done. Having been able to talk about this in
:50:00. > :50:10.Strasbourg, there was a round of applause from MPs across the
:50:10. > :50:14.chamber. In one sentence, 7% in the St David's Paul were in favour of
:50:14. > :50:18.independence. Should we be surprised? I think what is
:50:18. > :50:24.surprising is how quickly the whole devolution debate's moving on. It
:50:24. > :50:30.would appear that a clear majority fear an extension of powers would
:50:30. > :50:34.have to use those wisely. I think it is a continuous process, and I
:50:34. > :50:39.think if anything now, public opinion is moving as fast as the
:50:39. > :50:42.politicians, and we have to convince people that actually
:50:42. > :50:47.having our own Government in Cardiff will bring about the real