:01:28. > :01:33.Later in the programme with 21 Welsh communities without a bank
:01:33. > :01:43.and 47 with just one. Welsh MPs share their concerns about bank
:01:43. > :01:43.
:01:43. > :31:46.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1802 seconds
:31:46. > :31:50.Hello, but I am Aled ap Dafydd and on their Sunday politics Wales we
:31:50. > :31:54.get a Welsh fear of the situation in Afghanistan.
:31:54. > :31:59.And how deprived a you in some of the remotest parts of the country?
:31:59. > :32:04.The scenery might be lovely, but with less access to public services
:32:04. > :32:07.and banks closing, does it feel like being a second-class citizen
:32:07. > :32:12.if you live in rural parts of the country?
:32:12. > :32:17.Joining me are to first class rural MPs, Albert a winner and Glyn
:32:17. > :32:22.Davies. Budget Day is looming large, what is on your wish-list?
:32:22. > :32:27.We have to tackle the fuel duty. We are paying highest price is on
:32:27. > :32:32.record and we also need a plan of growth. We have been talking about
:32:32. > :32:36.it for two years and all we have seen his austerity and cuts. Labour
:32:36. > :32:41.has some ideas, but I want to see Chancellor has come up with good
:32:41. > :32:45.ideas that we can all get around and get people back to work.
:32:45. > :32:49.Unemployment levels are a disgrace and we need to deal with that. We
:32:49. > :32:55.need a plan for growth so that we can get more taxes into the
:32:55. > :33:00.Treasury and spend our way out of the recession. Not on benefits, but
:33:00. > :33:05.on people buying goods. Glyn Davies, we are hearing their budgets are
:33:05. > :33:11.being squeezed, D thing the government will be able to offer a
:33:11. > :33:16.respite? Generally speaking, this strategy that I want to see is the
:33:16. > :33:21.same as what Albert wants to see. I think we need to look at fuel again
:33:21. > :33:26.this year, but really growth is what we need and we are looking for
:33:26. > :33:31.a Budget for growth, to encourage employment and increase tax take.
:33:31. > :33:37.That is what I am looking for the Chancellor to do.
:33:37. > :33:43.Some sad news, Afghanistan has been in the news today with a US soldier
:33:43. > :33:49.allegedly killing several civilians which follows a week in which six
:33:49. > :33:52.British civilians were killed while on patrol in Kandahar province. Our
:33:52. > :33:55.reporter has been talking to a former minister with direct
:33:55. > :34:00.experience. It is more than a decade since the
:34:00. > :34:03.war in Afghanistan began, but this week we saw this Ingall deadliest
:34:03. > :34:07.attack on British life as six soldiers were killed on the
:34:07. > :34:13.roadside. Their deaths mean that more than 400 British personnel
:34:13. > :34:17.have been killed in Afghanistan since 2001. Joining me now is the
:34:17. > :34:22.former Labour Foreign Office a. Your government made a decision to
:34:22. > :34:29.go into Afghanistan in the first place, do you stick by it? It was
:34:29. > :34:35.the proper thing To do In December 2001. It was a UN resolution, I
:34:35. > :34:39.think 23 nations went in including us. The idea was to drive the Al-
:34:40. > :34:44.Qaeda out of its training camps in Afghanistan and try to do something
:34:45. > :34:50.with this terrible government that was a run by the Taliban at the
:34:50. > :34:54.time. That was successful. The problem, I think, was that we then
:34:54. > :35:00.tried to turn the country into something that look like a
:35:00. > :35:04.democracy. And then did so having to support a corrupt government and
:35:04. > :35:10.terrible problems with Pakistan and Iran that in a very tough
:35:10. > :35:13.neighbourhood. I'm afraid we have not been successful. David Cameron
:35:14. > :35:19.and Philip Hammond have this week suggested it is a worthy war. We
:35:19. > :35:22.have had their head of the armed forces suggesting that the gains
:35:22. > :35:28.made a truly impressive. They believe that it is still worth
:35:28. > :35:32.fighting for, but do you disagree? I think we should pull out very,
:35:32. > :35:39.very quickly. We do it in an orderly manner, get our troops out
:35:39. > :35:44.safely and aid workers out safely. The Afghanistan has been in a big
:35:44. > :35:48.hole for a very long time and the only people to sort out Afghanistan
:35:48. > :35:52.in the end are going to be Afghani is. They have to decide not to
:35:52. > :35:57.treat women were sent they treat camels. They have to decide that
:35:57. > :36:01.they must educate the young people, especially young girls. We can't
:36:01. > :36:07.make them do that, we can encourage them and help them and will
:36:07. > :36:13.continue to do that, but we will not do it by force of arms. We are
:36:13. > :36:18.in our 11th year of this war. The longest in modern times. If we have
:36:18. > :36:23.not done it by now, we are not going to in another 15, 20 years.
:36:23. > :36:27.There were diplomats talking about us being there for 30 years, this
:36:27. > :36:32.is a nonsense. That can't be Britain's role for the next three
:36:32. > :36:37.decades. All them 400 servicemen and women died in Afghanistan, use
:36:37. > :36:41.a trip should be pulled out. At what point did they die in vain?
:36:42. > :36:48.don't think they died in favour. I think the problem with this war,
:36:48. > :36:52.like so many others, is that the commanders, politicians to conduct
:36:52. > :36:58.the war and negotiate, they always believe that it is when a ball. The
:36:58. > :37:03.Americans did in Vietnam and we have done in previous wars. Many
:37:03. > :37:08.wars against the guerrilla forces which is what the Taliban are. All
:37:08. > :37:11.of the other warlords and factions in that area I'll rarely win the
:37:11. > :37:16.ball by a professional armies. We never quite understood that, I
:37:16. > :37:21.think, that even though the Russians had tens of thousands of
:37:21. > :37:26.troops, they still could not win. They did not care about human
:37:26. > :37:29.rights or what the world thought of them and yet they were still
:37:29. > :37:36.defeated and had to leave Afghanistan. We should have learned
:37:36. > :37:39.from that lesson. Making the point that he makes, no
:37:39. > :37:45.apologies for the decision to send troops. With the benefit of
:37:45. > :37:51.hindsight, do you think it was wise? Certainly at the time. Force
:37:51. > :37:56.of an -- for stability in the Western world. I did not support
:37:56. > :38:01.Iraq, but I did support Afghanistan. But the contradictions seems to be
:38:01. > :38:04.that he went on to say that these wars are not when the ball with
:38:04. > :38:09.professional army is which begs the question, what disappointed sending
:38:09. > :38:13.an army in the first place? I do not hold that view. I have been
:38:13. > :38:17.consistent that if we go in there we have to do the job and I don't
:38:17. > :38:25.think my job has been completed. We need to see a drawback, but not to
:38:25. > :38:29.a fixed time. A fixed time is the Taliban a chance to fill that gap.
:38:29. > :38:33.Worked with the people of Afghanistan and security forces in
:38:33. > :38:41.Afghanistan to make it, not to create a democracy, but to create a
:38:41. > :38:46.safe country. This is a country suffering from chronic instability.
:38:46. > :38:51.How has this situation been able to develop over the past 10 years?
:38:51. > :38:55.What we are dealing with today is, we have gone in to protect our
:38:55. > :39:03.country as well as to introduce a degree of stability in Afghanistan.
:39:03. > :39:07.It is a big, big job and the answer to it in the end, I listened to Kim
:39:07. > :39:11.Howells speaking and think it is right to pull out in a orderly
:39:11. > :39:16.fashion, but part of that is to train the Afghan security forces to
:39:16. > :39:22.do what we are doing. I think that President Obama and their prime
:39:22. > :39:29.minister are talking about a strategy Inc -- involving moving
:39:29. > :39:33.troops out in 2015. But it has to be in an orderly fashion. It has to
:39:33. > :39:39.be so that everybody did not die in vain, it is for a stable
:39:39. > :39:45.Afghanistan. Since the fall of the Taliban, they have, many think,
:39:45. > :39:49.been able to regroup. This has been a failed mission? Admission is
:39:49. > :39:54.never failed until it is over. We knew in the beginning it would be a
:39:54. > :40:01.very difficult ambition to achieve a stable government. It has been a
:40:02. > :40:05.very bad week. Six young soldiers being killed at once and another
:40:05. > :40:09.terrible incident involving American troops and violence, a
:40:09. > :40:16.very difficult week. This sort of mission will have very difficult
:40:16. > :40:19.weeks. Governments can't just have a difficult week and withdraw. We
:40:19. > :40:23.have to withdraw with security services capable of maintaining the
:40:23. > :40:27.country. To what extent do you think foreign trips are propping up
:40:27. > :40:32.the Afghan government which has very little control outside the
:40:32. > :40:36.capital? Building governance is a big issue and changing cultures. I
:40:36. > :40:41.don't think we can do that very well. We are getting better and we
:40:41. > :40:44.can work with them to be say economy. What the people of
:40:44. > :40:50.Afghanistan once in the future is what the Western world ones. It is
:40:50. > :40:54.not about imposing democracy, it is about giving freedom. We are in
:40:54. > :41:00.joint allies here, there are many countries involved. It is not just
:41:00. > :41:05.about the US and the UK imposing on Afghanistan. It is giving them the
:41:05. > :41:11.bottom up waited de Witt and that will not happen quickly. I don't
:41:11. > :41:16.disagree with anything that Albert is saying on this issue. Except the
:41:17. > :41:23.date, the government has a target date a 2014, but generally I do not
:41:23. > :41:29.agree with Kim Howells, you cannot withdraw immediately. I think that
:41:29. > :41:32.is the wrong answer. Fantastic countryside with lovely walks but
:41:32. > :41:37.limited access to public services some poor public transport, is that
:41:37. > :41:42.the best way to sum up rural Wales? The rural communities debate heard
:41:42. > :41:49.there were 21 communities in Wales with no banks at all and 47 with
:41:49. > :41:54.just one. The Brecon MP told our reporter he was very concerned
:41:54. > :41:59.about the banking situation. It seems to me there is a programme
:41:59. > :42:02.for bank closure among so big banks across the UK, but they any close
:42:02. > :42:06.one banker at a time and therefore it is important that a raises issue
:42:06. > :42:12.in the House of Commons so that the Treasury ministers understand what
:42:12. > :42:14.is happening, but also we are a boys were the local community.
:42:14. > :42:24.us some examples you have been working with the and communities
:42:24. > :42:26.
:42:26. > :42:31.affected? We campaign to keep the Barclays Bank O'Brien -- Barclays
:42:31. > :42:34.Bank Open in Presteigne. They were the only bank that had a cash
:42:34. > :42:39.machine and without backlash meshing, people would not be
:42:39. > :42:44.aborted get money together to go out and have a meal and enjoy the
:42:44. > :42:47.towel. That would put all businesses at a disadvantage.
:42:47. > :42:52.Almost like being back in the seventies when you had to get your
:42:52. > :42:58.money out before finishing work. Absolutely. Sometimes rising to be
:42:58. > :43:02.a bit excitable and we did get a cash machine open, but it is a very
:43:02. > :43:07.important thing that people take for granted in cities. It is
:43:07. > :43:11.absolutely essential for the local economy in rural towns and Wales.
:43:11. > :43:16.Finally, beyond it just making it the Treasury ministers are aware
:43:16. > :43:23.and getting their recognition of the problem, what really can this
:43:24. > :43:28.place du? We are putting forward to proposals. One is that we have a
:43:28. > :43:33.common facility a in a place like Presteigne where a number of banks
:43:33. > :43:37.will be based and offer their products and services. That would
:43:37. > :43:42.reduce the cost to them while ensuring there is a presence in
:43:42. > :43:47.these villages and towns. Also, what we are saying is that when you
:43:47. > :43:52.come to the last banking town, then there is a duty and responsibility
:43:52. > :43:57.for these banks and it is ones they should not get out of. After all,
:43:57. > :44:01.all of these banks have had some government resistance, may not be
:44:01. > :44:07.directly, but in terms of quantity in easing the government has been
:44:07. > :44:13.able to maintain liquidity it which allows these banks to survive and I
:44:13. > :44:18.hope flourish in the future. We don't know how much trouble
:44:18. > :44:23.these two MPs have had accessing their cash machines. If these are
:44:23. > :44:27.are not viable, surely there is a case for closing them down? I think
:44:27. > :44:32.the banks have not got it over the years. They me to engage with
:44:32. > :44:36.people and not distance themselves. A bank is supposed to be a
:44:36. > :44:41.community asset. We have seen billionaire's creating money across
:44:41. > :44:45.the world and yet letting the people down who created these banks
:44:46. > :44:50.and the first place. I'm concerned we are not only talking about the
:44:50. > :44:55.banks, it links with the shops and the pubs in the area. Once we use
:44:55. > :44:59.these facilities, people will not gravitate to these communities.
:44:59. > :45:05.What you are saying is that banking groups should use rural banks as
:45:05. > :45:10.some sort of loss leader? They are not a charity, but they are
:45:10. > :45:15.supposed be part of the community. I have not heard this discussed at
:45:15. > :45:19.any shareholders' meeting. Unsure if people had a real say they would
:45:19. > :45:25.want to keep rural banks Oban. We are also talking about jobs in
:45:25. > :45:30.these areas. It is a big blow and I agree with Roger that we need to
:45:30. > :45:36.stand up to them. I am meeting with HSBC management on this very issue
:45:36. > :45:40.in a couple of weeks' time. I do not think that they get it. We need
:45:40. > :45:45.a network of banks. They were set up so that you could walk in
:45:45. > :45:49.through the door and get your money out. Now that money is played with
:45:49. > :45:54.like Monopoly across the world and we are losing that valuable
:45:54. > :46:00.institution particularly in rural areas and market towns where people
:46:00. > :46:04.gravitates. Surely people in rural Wales count lead a normal everyday
:46:04. > :46:11.life by paying bills on the internet, for example. You don't
:46:11. > :46:15.have to have a cash point in every village. A not every villages on
:46:15. > :46:19.the internet. Broadband is expanding well, but there are a lot
:46:19. > :46:24.of areas in rural Wales at do not have good coverage. A lot of
:46:24. > :46:32.elderly people are not tuned into that also. There is an argument for
:46:32. > :46:35.us to retain banking infrastructure as possible -- as we possibly can.
:46:35. > :46:39.That is something I have been involved in in most of my life.
:46:39. > :46:45.Unknown not all people are going into the banks anymore and there
:46:45. > :46:54.have been steady closure has, but I make it my mission to slow that
:46:54. > :46:57.closure Dowen. Not just on banks but on all rural services. Can I
:46:57. > :47:03.played devil's advocate, people know the score when they choose to
:47:03. > :47:07.live in rural Wales. They know they might not be a cash point. They
:47:07. > :47:11.know what they are getting themselves into, don't make?
:47:11. > :47:16.accept that, and you will not have the same services as you would in
:47:16. > :47:20.an urban area, but still I am of the Rural Wales born and lived
:47:20. > :47:25.there all my life and want to retain a strong is the structure of
:47:25. > :47:29.services. I know it is not going to be as good as the town, but the
:47:29. > :47:35.compensatory factors of living in rural Wales make a fight which is
:47:35. > :47:37.why an awful lot of us could never contemplate living elsewhere.
:47:37. > :47:46.these services are disappearing, is there a danger that these villages
:47:46. > :47:50.will become ghost villages? Yes. he say you can go to the town, but
:47:50. > :47:54.often you can't because the bus services have been reduced. I go
:47:54. > :47:57.back to the point that they are linked to the pubs and the
:47:57. > :48:02.restaurants and the shops and people socialise there and it will
:48:02. > :48:06.have a knock-on effect. The banking staff themselves actually help the
:48:06. > :48:13.economy in many areas. We have to look at this not just as a business
:48:13. > :48:18.case, but as a social case for banking in rural Wales and in towns.
:48:18. > :48:25.Quick final word? Again and, it is embarrassing today because I seem
:48:25. > :48:30.to be agreeing with everything. That is the aim of nearly all rural
:48:30. > :48:35.MPs, to retain as good and strong at infrastructure of services as we
:48:35. > :48:40.possibly can knowing full well that the way modern life works, you're
:48:40. > :48:43.not going to be totally successful in everything, but I do think that
:48:43. > :48:49.the banks, social responsibility bearing in mind they have been
:48:49. > :48:54.supported by government. The community debate happened last
:48:54. > :49:02.week but a lot more happened last week. Here is a look back in 60
:49:02. > :49:04.seconds. International Women's Day, a global
:49:04. > :49:13.celebration for their economic, political and social achievements
:49:13. > :49:21.of women were celebrated by MPs. David pants and urge the UK
:49:21. > :49:24.government to give pressure on UK Motors.
:49:24. > :49:29.The Prime Minister attacked the Welsh government over the NHS, this
:49:29. > :49:34.time at the prompting of a Conservative MP.
:49:34. > :49:40.Labour MPs queued up to attack the UK government over plans to close
:49:40. > :49:45.seven out of nine enterprises in Wales. 272 disabled people face
:49:45. > :49:50.redundancy. The Welsh government said it would
:49:50. > :49:57.reveal information before it can step in and save jobs.
:49:57. > :50:07.Wayne Davies gave us a charity concert in London in aid of March:
:50:07. > :50:11.
:50:11. > :50:16.Cancer support. -- Macmillan. The Glynn Davies, would you agree that
:50:16. > :50:20.that was a botched announcement? I believe it should have been an
:50:20. > :50:25.oral statement to challenge a sensitive decision in the House of
:50:25. > :50:31.Commons. Like everybody, it is a hugely sensitive issue and had
:50:31. > :50:35.particular impact on Wales because of history and I think it is the
:50:35. > :50:39.right decision. I think people with disabilities should be employed in
:50:39. > :50:44.mainstream business, I don't think there should be grouped separately
:50:44. > :50:50.from society and what we found is that that works where well. The
:50:50. > :50:53.cost of employing people through that system is cheaper. These
:50:53. > :50:58.factories are losing money, where is the business case for keeping
:50:58. > :51:05.them open? We are talking about a vulnerable people here. It was
:51:05. > :51:09.botched and it was vindictive the way it was done. He you have people
:51:09. > :51:13.who contribute to society, I agree is to get them into mainstream, but
:51:13. > :51:18.Jimmy bat factory first instance to get them there. It will take an
:51:19. > :51:26.awful long time to get some of these people back into mainstream.