:01:32. > :01:36.In Wales will it be another thinner blue line? 1,600 officers will
:01:36. > :01:46.disappear says the Police Federation. The Home Office claimed
:01:46. > :01:46.
:01:46. > :31:43.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1796 seconds
:31:43. > :31:47.Hello, are welcome to the Sunday Politics Wales. We will have our
:31:47. > :31:53.take on policing as well. The federation is accused of
:31:53. > :31:57.scaremongering same Wales is set to lose 1,600 officers. A senior
:31:57. > :32:03.officer tells us we should be worried and does Team GB compromise
:32:03. > :32:08.Team Wales? We discuss all things Olympics in the week that the torch
:32:08. > :32:15.relay comes. Here for the sprint through those topics are Dafydd
:32:15. > :32:19.Elis-Thomas and Nick Ramsay. Coming up tomorrow, the publication of a
:32:19. > :32:25.paper on changing the electoral system. Is this something that
:32:25. > :32:32.should be tampered with? When I was in my previous job I did have
:32:32. > :32:38.assurances then from David Cameron and from the Secretary of State
:32:38. > :32:44.that there would be a consideration of the electoral system of the
:32:44. > :32:51.Assembly separately from that of Westminster. I would like the
:32:51. > :32:57.Assembly itself to be in charge of its own arrangements. We know that
:32:57. > :33:03.the number of MPs in Wales will go down. Some are saying there should
:33:03. > :33:09.be a change in the Assembly to reflect that. What would you say?
:33:09. > :33:15.The position has been decoupled with the legislation. We are having
:33:15. > :33:19.a reduction which is the right course of action. As for the
:33:19. > :33:24.Assembly system, my group in the Assembly, the Conservative group
:33:24. > :33:28.has made clear they support things as they are. What we do not want is
:33:28. > :33:35.the Labour Party proposing the scrapping of the proportional
:33:35. > :33:43.element so that parties would not get their fair share of the boats.
:33:43. > :33:45.That would be a disgraceful proposal. The UK government is
:33:45. > :33:52.accusing the Police Federation of scaremongering over the number of
:33:52. > :33:59.officers to be that Wales would lose the equivalent of an entire
:33:59. > :34:02.force, 1,600. But the Home Office has told us that the federation's
:34:02. > :34:08.playing fast and loose with the figures and fewer than half that
:34:08. > :34:12.number would go. The anger of rank-and-file police
:34:12. > :34:17.officers over budget cuts and reforms is clear. Tens of thousands
:34:17. > :34:20.of them demonstrated in London recently. Last week the Home
:34:20. > :34:24.Secretary was heckled at the Police Federation's conference in
:34:24. > :34:29.Bournemouth. She told delegates to stop pretending they were being
:34:29. > :34:34.picked on. Earlier its chairman used wild to illustrate an ever
:34:35. > :34:39.thinner blue line. When you look at Wales, what is happening there, the
:34:39. > :34:45.number of offices they are losing their is the equivalent of one
:34:45. > :34:49.whole force. It is like losing the whole of the north Welsh police
:34:50. > :34:54.force. That is the reality. Estimates of the number of officers
:34:54. > :34:57.going as the government implements cuts and very. There are various
:34:57. > :35:01.ways of calculating the because and Darryl four different force areas
:35:01. > :35:07.involved, but the Police Federation's figures are stark. The
:35:07. > :35:12.federation predicts that across Wales, up over three years ending
:35:12. > :35:16.in 20th April 14, 1,600 officers will have gone. The home of this
:35:16. > :35:26.has told Sunday Politics the Police Federation is intentionally
:35:26. > :35:29.
:35:29. > :35:39.misleading the public. In a The Independent inspectors has
:35:39. > :35:45.As a service spending �14 billion a year, the police must play their
:35:45. > :35:50.part in reducing the record de -- budget deficit. We have hit a raw
:35:50. > :35:54.nerve with the Home Office and the truth hurts. They seem to be
:35:54. > :36:00.celebrating the fact that 800 police officers will be lost in
:36:00. > :36:07.Wales whereas the truth is we will lose 1,600. Trent % of the officers
:36:07. > :36:17.in Wales equals 1,600 cop said. Officers will be going from the
:36:17. > :36:22.
:36:22. > :36:28.We support the Inspectorate of policing. The cards are at the
:36:28. > :36:32.right level and we support that, beyond that to get beyond the flesh
:36:32. > :36:38.of the organisation, we will do his officers and the public see through
:36:38. > :36:42.that. Ian Johnston is a former chief superintendent. He is also
:36:42. > :36:46.ex-president of the Police Superintendents Association. He
:36:46. > :36:50.maintains contacts with senior officers and endorses the
:36:50. > :36:53.federation's figures. The public should be worried. We will see more
:36:53. > :36:59.crime because criminals will realise that officers are not there
:36:59. > :37:04.to deal with them and death in the public will find that police
:37:04. > :37:08.respond to incident will get slow and police will have to look hard
:37:08. > :37:11.at what they respond to and what they do not respond to.
:37:11. > :37:17.coalition has given assurances that savings will concentrate on back
:37:17. > :37:23.office functions, that frontline policing will be protected.? They
:37:23. > :37:28.are talking about police constables in uniform, patrolling on third and
:37:28. > :37:31.back office they tend to think about Taipei'ss and secretarial
:37:31. > :37:35.support but back of this is detectives who deal with murders,
:37:35. > :37:39.rapes and frauds and traffic officers who deal with a road
:37:39. > :37:44.safety and accidents. It is not really telling the public the truth
:37:44. > :37:47.when they talk about front line and back office. The previous
:37:47. > :37:54.government budgeted for a top % cut in police funding over the same
:37:54. > :38:01.three-year period. It argues the Government's a jump from 12 to 20 %
:38:01. > :38:06.is too extreme. David Hanson was previously the labour minister in
:38:06. > :38:15.charge of policing. Crime is rising all ready for the first time in 13-
:38:15. > :38:20.14 years. We have seen crime rise by 11 % over the past year,
:38:20. > :38:27.burglary, robbery and theft. This will have a real impact. The police
:38:27. > :38:32.are saying that this week at their conference, chief officers are
:38:32. > :38:36.saying, this will have a major impact. Theresa May has denied that
:38:36. > :38:41.her relationship with the federation is beyond repair. Yet
:38:41. > :38:45.the war of words over how many officers are going in Wales is a
:38:45. > :38:51.symptom of increasingly acrimonious exchanges between a Conservative
:38:51. > :38:56.Home Secretary and police as unprecedented cuts are implemented.
:38:56. > :39:00.Dafydd Elis-Thomas, there is a lot of emotive language surrounding
:39:00. > :39:08.this issue. Quite hard to get to the facts. Are these cuts
:39:08. > :39:12.acceptable? It is not for me to decide. This is a matter for
:39:12. > :39:17.Members of Parliament. I am worried about the destruction we are facing
:39:17. > :39:23.now which is the election of police commissioners because that will we
:39:23. > :39:30.politicise the argument. I have seen Detection, modes of operation
:39:30. > :39:35.of the police chains radically over the years -- change. The
:39:35. > :39:40.efficiencies in delivery which I have seen in the last few months in
:39:40. > :39:48.the reorganisation is something that I welcome because it has not
:39:48. > :39:53.resulted in responses -- changes to response times. It has retained the
:39:53. > :39:58.community policing facility which everyone welcomes. We have seen
:39:58. > :40:03.officers a march on the streets of London, the reception the --
:40:03. > :40:09.Theresa May had in Bournemouth. How can she pushed through these
:40:09. > :40:16.reforms when she has officers so against her? These cuts were going
:40:16. > :40:21.to happen anyway. I understand the police's concerns and we have
:40:21. > :40:25.always been strong supporters of the police. They are essential to
:40:25. > :40:29.the way our society operates. But cars have to be made and there is
:40:29. > :40:34.no way that one organisation such as the police can be outside of
:40:34. > :40:40.that process. I appreciate it is typical. I have spoken to and
:40:40. > :40:43.number of officers and the police authority in Grant has done very
:40:43. > :40:49.well to make the cuts that are necessary without affecting the
:40:49. > :40:55.front line. One way of making it different in Wales would be to have
:40:55. > :40:59.the devolution and having police within the control of the Welsh
:40:59. > :41:06.Government. That could mean the jobs of many police officers in
:41:06. > :41:11.Wales could be safeguarded. I do not think that follows. Privately
:41:11. > :41:15.the police have seen how the fire service has benefited from
:41:15. > :41:19.devolution but we only had a referendum last year and I think we
:41:19. > :41:25.should allow the situation to stabilise and see what needs to be
:41:25. > :41:29.done. To say that devolving policing, and no, we are dependent
:41:29. > :41:32.on the finance from Westminster to keep Wales running and the police
:41:32. > :41:38.would still require that finance whether it was coming from
:41:38. > :41:43.Westminster or the Assembly. Resort the former chief superintendent of
:41:43. > :41:46.the Brent saying we could see more crime as a result of frontline
:41:47. > :41:50.officers under response times slaver. Do you share those
:41:50. > :41:58.concerns? That is a total generalisation that I would not
:41:58. > :42:02.take seriously. I am interested in what kind of crime, how we maintain
:42:02. > :42:06.and increase and respect for law and order in communities and that
:42:06. > :42:11.is best tackled by an improvement in the way that we educate
:42:11. > :42:15.citizenship, where we have a sense of responsibility and along with
:42:15. > :42:23.that there is the local police presence of the community policing
:42:23. > :42:26.and that has been the key. You talk about generalisations, what about
:42:26. > :42:33.this generalisation that back office staff are not police
:42:33. > :42:37.officers who are there detecting crime. I do not think the
:42:37. > :42:42.expression and pressure has been used. There is a lot of confusion
:42:42. > :42:46.and I do not want to get into the argument about figures. What people
:42:46. > :42:51.have to we -- realise is that sadly because of where we are
:42:51. > :42:56.economically, a cut has to be made. The UK government has been working
:42:56. > :43:06.closely with the police to make sure that the cars are sympathetic.
:43:06. > :43:09.
:43:09. > :43:13.Proper cent but they are not up for 20 %? A cut had to be made. What
:43:13. > :43:17.matters is whether it is 12 or a higher figure, it is where those
:43:17. > :43:23.cuts are made and I am confident that the current government has not
:43:23. > :43:28.said, he is your lot. They have said they will work with the police
:43:28. > :43:31.to make sure the cars are sympathetic. There is a lot of
:43:31. > :43:36.scaremongering and people engaging in that should be aware of the
:43:36. > :43:41.worried they are causing. Thank you. If you have not been hit by Olympic
:43:41. > :43:44.fever, there is hope the arrival of the torch relay in Wales will
:43:44. > :43:49.ignite the fire. One particular sport and one team has been a topic
:43:49. > :43:54.of debate. Does the formation of a Great Britain football team
:43:54. > :44:01.compromise Wales's standing of an independent association? Like to
:44:01. > :44:07.midfield terriers the Conservative Andrew Davis and Plaid Cymru's and
:44:07. > :44:16.then Fred Jones went head to head. The Olympics are being hosted here
:44:16. > :44:20.in the United Kingdom and it poses no risk. If you have one team why
:44:20. > :44:30.can you Anna Ford associations? This is typical Plaid Cymru
:44:30. > :44:34.nationalism scaremongering. We have given that assurance to the people
:44:34. > :44:41.that in this case that this is the Olympics hosted by the UK in this
:44:41. > :44:47.instance and there is one team, Team GB to play at the London
:44:47. > :44:56.Olympics. Let celebrate that fact, embrace it and promote Wales in a
:44:56. > :45:03.positive light. I am a bit older and have been celebrating Wales or
:45:03. > :45:13.longer. The fact is there is potentially the undermining of the
:45:13. > :45:23.existence of the associations within the UK. A diplomatic scored
:45:23. > :45:23.
:45:23. > :45:28.four. Dafydd Elis-Thomas, Alan Fred Jones comments typical. This is a
:45:28. > :45:32.total red herring. The history is that the Football Association of
:45:32. > :45:38.Wales is the third oldest in the world because England needed
:45:38. > :45:45.somebody to play with and that is how this developed. This is totally
:45:45. > :45:52.unrelated. I have the privilege of welcomed athletes back from Beijing
:45:52. > :45:57.and they wear their UK kit and they have the red dragon on their backs.
:45:57. > :46:01.We are talking about the prominence of the Welsh Football Association
:46:01. > :46:11.within Uefa and Fifa or. There has always been a UK team that competes
:46:11. > :46:13.
:46:13. > :46:20.in athletics but what some are saying is that the Welsh football
:46:20. > :46:24.Association's place could be under threat. This is not an issue that
:46:24. > :46:34.we should face in relation to the Olympics. Let's take the British
:46:34. > :46:38.
:46:38. > :46:48.Irish? There are some who say they will not want to see Welsh athletes
:46:48. > :46:48.
:46:48. > :46:54.wearing Team GB. Named them. probably have the one member of the
:46:54. > :47:02.party for that argument. We are talking about the football coming
:47:02. > :47:07.home for the Olympics but Alan Fred and Andrew... I am not here to make
:47:07. > :47:13.the comments of other people. We need to focus on the Olympic torch
:47:13. > :47:21.coming to Wales next Friday. It is a great opportunity for Wales as
:47:21. > :47:26.part of the country that includes the host city London. Whether you
:47:26. > :47:31.are a proud Welshman or a proud supporter of the UK, let's all get
:47:31. > :47:38.together to make sure this Olympics works for the whole country.
:47:39. > :47:42.what other ways will Wales benefit economically because there -- it
:47:42. > :47:52.was always said there would be games in other parts of the
:47:52. > :48:04.
:48:04. > :48:08.country? What ways will Wales reap the rewards? I think it is
:48:08. > :48:15.straightforward. The fact that we have the women's football here, we
:48:15. > :48:19.have got the Uruguay match, the fact that Cardiff is playing a part
:48:19. > :48:24.and the training part of it as well, so we will have athletes here, all
:48:24. > :48:30.of that means Wales will see economic benefit. You can have
:48:30. > :48:35.arguments about the overall cost, actually I think this is a great
:48:35. > :48:40.moment for Wales and Britain to have this sort of contest. I look
:48:40. > :48:49.forward to welcoming the torch. I thought it was beautifully welcomed
:48:49. > :48:55.and I hope the same thing will happen in Wales. This petty
:48:55. > :49:05.nationalism, we do not need it. have to move on. Time for a look
:49:05. > :49:05.
:49:05. > :49:11.back at some of the political events of the week.
:49:11. > :49:21.Peter Kane resigned a shadow Welsh secretary in order to campaign for
:49:21. > :49:23.
:49:23. > :49:33.a power generating a sudden barrage. His seat went to Owen Smith. The
:49:33. > :49:34.
:49:34. > :49:39.Assembly unanimously cent said an MP after his behaviour in after a
:49:39. > :49:49.drunken night out. A pledge to raise literacy
:49:49. > :49:54.standards to improve their reading and writing skills of pupils.
:49:54. > :49:58.An election count a mix-up resulted in a Conservative candidate winning
:49:58. > :50:08.a seat earlier this month. The council apologised for the mistake
:50:08. > :50:12.
:50:12. > :50:20.which led to the throat of Labour -- vote. One man in the news last
:50:20. > :50:24.week, Peter Kane. Let's have a quick word on his legacy. 0 win
:50:24. > :50:29.Smith his successor I remember working in this unbilled --
:50:29. > :50:39.building. He will make a fine replacement. I do not want to
:50:39. > :50:40.
:50:40. > :50:44.comment on Peter Haynes. I think that clearly my politics and
:50:44. > :50:48.Peter's are different. He was part of the last government which left
:50:48. > :50:55.the current government having to sort out the things it did. But he
:50:55. > :51:00.has been one of the big piece in politics and he will be missed.
:51:00. > :51:09.Whatever your views of Peter, he has made a clear statement he wants
:51:09. > :51:18.to go and fight and campaign for the 7th garage. -- barrage. Whether