:00:55. > :01:04.Welcome to the Sunday politics. The eurozone stares into the best and
:01:04. > :01:08.we talk to Danny Alexander, a -- be a best. David Cameron and his
:01:08. > :01:18.Argentinian counterpart went head- to-head over the Falklands this
:01:18. > :01:18.
:01:18. > :01:24.week. And our political panel of the best and brightest here every
:01:24. > :01:32.week to analyse British politics in the week ahead, talking about the
:01:32. > :01:42.Jimmy Carr tax return. And in Wales, we question whether the vulnerable
:01:42. > :01:42.
:01:42. > :32:05.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1823 seconds
:32:05. > :32:09.and elderly should be treated as Why would you want to give it up
:32:10. > :32:15.now when it looks like there might be or oil revenues to be lost?
:32:15. > :32:20.Because we might need to give it up in totality later. The growing
:32:20. > :32:26.power of countries like Venezuela we should have good relations with
:32:26. > :32:31.them. Let us share the oil and gas in the Falklands, save ourselves
:32:31. > :32:39.the money and not have to send an aircraft carrier and lose more men.
:32:39. > :32:45.But we have not got one to send! What he is seeing is that Latin
:32:45. > :32:49.America is full of emerging economies. It is part of the 21st
:32:49. > :32:55.century. We have good relations with Latin America then we just do
:32:55. > :33:02.not talk to Argentina. We do have relations with Latin America. They
:33:02. > :33:08.exist. Argentina is not all that popular with in Latin America. I
:33:08. > :33:13.quite like disagreeing with George Galloway. My point is this. The
:33:13. > :33:23.South Americans are not, just as George has presented, some of them
:33:23. > :33:28.
:33:28. > :33:34.are very much on side. You said Brazil was onside. Brazil is 100%
:33:34. > :33:40.behind Argentina's claim. Brazil is saying we should be friends
:33:40. > :33:47.increasingly. But we are not. is politics. We are not having a
:33:47. > :33:54.battle here. We do not want to have a battle. We just want Argentina to
:33:54. > :33:58.back off. Argentina is in trouble. They have not got the military
:33:58. > :34:03.means to do anyone. I do not think you are in trouble just because you
:34:03. > :34:08.take your own or oil resources back from the Spanish. The Argentines
:34:08. > :34:13.are within their own right to take their oil company but Argentina has
:34:13. > :34:20.and nationalist oil company, you are right. There flag is flying at
:34:20. > :34:24.half mast because of this issue. They simply cannot resist the call
:34:24. > :34:33.for the liberation from European colonial rule of a piece of what
:34:33. > :34:38.they consider to be there motherland. The Argentine ants --
:34:38. > :34:45.the Argentinians cannot takeover land which is an have dictated by
:34:45. > :34:49.people who think they are British. You are watching the Sunday
:34:49. > :34:58.Politics. Coming up in 20 minutes I will be looking at the week ahead
:34:58. > :35:04.with our political panel. Now the Sunday Politics across the UK. A
:35:04. > :35:09.low, on the Sunday Politics Wales, public versus private is a debate
:35:09. > :35:14.which gets the blood of many boiling. When it comes to elderly
:35:14. > :35:20.care, should it matter who owns the homes where some of our elderly
:35:20. > :35:27.relative reside? Today we hear concerns about the low number of
:35:28. > :35:33.female councillors elected last month and joining me today are two
:35:33. > :35:37.MPs. In the news today, a suggestion by David Cameron that a
:35:37. > :35:43.future Conservative Government would scrap housing benefit for
:35:43. > :35:47.those under 25. The moral compass of the Lib Dems does not often. In
:35:47. > :35:53.the same direction as the Conservatives. Are you in on this
:35:53. > :35:58.together? Absolutely not. He is speaking as the leader of the
:35:58. > :36:03.Conservative Party. He is perfectly entitled to do that and to his own
:36:03. > :36:06.view. We as Lib Dems will be putting forward before the next
:36:06. > :36:14.election what we would be proposing and suggesting that this is not one
:36:14. > :36:19.be particularly agree with. argument is that living on benefits
:36:19. > :36:25.is better than going to work. Lots of people would agree with that.
:36:25. > :36:28.think we are looking at it from the wrong direction. The benefits
:36:28. > :36:34.system is dependent on the tax system. David Cameron should be
:36:34. > :36:39.making sure people pay the right kind of tax on their earnings. It
:36:39. > :36:46.is not just good enough to say it is immoral to avoid tax but they
:36:46. > :36:50.have to get rid of the loophole to stop people avoiding it. An inquiry
:36:50. > :36:55.into residential care for older people questions whether looking
:36:55. > :37:00.after the vulnerable should be treated as a commodity to be traded.
:37:00. > :37:06.A private equity firm Nears completion of a multi-million pound
:37:06. > :37:12.takeover of private care homes including some in Wales. Our
:37:12. > :37:19.reporter has more. A greater variety of accommodation is
:37:19. > :37:23.developing to cope with the needs of an ageing population. Residents
:37:23. > :37:28.at this housing association scheme have their own apartments and front
:37:28. > :37:34.doors but with shared facilities including a restaurant, shop and
:37:34. > :37:39.here -- here salon. We want them to have a home for life. We can
:37:39. > :37:45.deliver final stages of care for them and that is what they will do.
:37:45. > :37:48.We do not get off at the door when things get tricky. This is
:37:48. > :37:52.someone's Home, the live here and we empower them and bring in the
:37:53. > :38:02.necessary partnerships and services into their home to allow them to
:38:02. > :38:07.stay there. As well as investigating not for profit homes,
:38:07. > :38:12.the new inquiry is looking at local authority establishments than those
:38:12. > :38:16.run by private operators. It is this private provision which has
:38:16. > :38:22.been making headlines since the Southern Cross collapse last year.
:38:22. > :38:31.They bought here homes, so all the properties on to private landlords
:38:31. > :38:37.and leased them back relying on resident's fees to cover rents.
:38:37. > :38:43.Seven of the firm's homes were in Wales. They were transferred to
:38:43. > :38:51.Four seasons health care, a company struggling with debt. Now a private
:38:51. > :38:57.equity group is in the process of taking that over. The deal is worth
:38:57. > :39:04.�825 million. Politicians have concerns. Last month Labour
:39:04. > :39:11.reported on the takeover to the First Minister. A tax exile and
:39:11. > :39:21.private equity baron, best known for his disastrous takeover of e m
:39:21. > :39:24.
:39:24. > :39:31.I e, is now poised to snap up Britain's largest care home gene.
:39:31. > :39:37.The chairman of the latest company admits it overpaid for the music
:39:38. > :39:43.company. Their residential care inquiry questioned the company
:39:43. > :39:51.about its current acquisition of the health care business. Does this
:39:51. > :39:58.mean the structure of the company will be changed? The inspectors
:39:58. > :40:05.said they could not follow the trail of debt beyond the Channel
:40:05. > :40:11.Islands and the Cayman Islands. investment is being put together
:40:11. > :40:18.and agreed and these structures are being put in place. Obviously when
:40:18. > :40:23.it was determined and fixed more discussion could be had about that.
:40:23. > :40:29.Certainly be will be... But you evidence says it will be
:40:29. > :40:37.transparent. Yes, I was just about to make that point. We absolutely
:40:37. > :40:42.are committed to those principles of transparency. The cheer of the
:40:42. > :40:48.inquiry insists there is no suggestion that private provision
:40:48. > :40:52.of residential care services is a bad thing. We do ask the
:40:52. > :40:57.fundamental question as to whether or not hear of older people is
:40:57. > :41:01.simply as a commodity to be traded like anything else. When we saw
:41:01. > :41:10.this company the said they were involved in essential businesses,
:41:10. > :41:14.their idea of that includes cinemas, motorway service stations and
:41:14. > :41:18.residential care homes for older people. There are others who do not
:41:18. > :41:22.think that what you can buy at a garden centre and what you need to
:41:22. > :41:27.look after frail and vulnerable older people is the same sort of
:41:27. > :41:31.practice. We want to see a much more clear line of accountability
:41:31. > :41:36.and an obvious way in which money is being used and value for money
:41:36. > :41:39.is being delivered. We all consume things and what we want is a good
:41:39. > :41:45.deal between be people who are providing a service and what we are
:41:45. > :41:48.getting. The issue with care homes is that these people are not
:41:48. > :41:55.empowered consumers, they are very vulnerable people are who often
:41:55. > :42:03.need support. We do have a very important role in protecting those
:42:03. > :42:09.interests. They say they are providing bass sustainable
:42:09. > :42:13.structure in the healthcare business. They are working with
:42:13. > :42:20.health care the authorities to deliver the highest possible care
:42:20. > :42:24.for residents. The onus on businesses seeking profit from here
:42:24. > :42:33.for vulnerable people have to demonstrate that lessons have been
:42:33. > :42:37.learned. The Community Care Act of 1990 allowed local authorities to
:42:37. > :42:47.farm out care homes to any willing provider, do you think that was at
:42:47. > :42:47.
:42:47. > :42:52.mistake? I do. I think there has been -- developed an imbalance in
:42:52. > :42:56.services. Even for a day here which is mainly in the hands of private
:42:56. > :43:00.providers which means there is a problem in terms of continuity and
:43:00. > :43:06.standards. I would far rather see that provision within the public
:43:06. > :43:16.sector. Many saw there was an ageing population and a chance to
:43:16. > :43:22.make a long-term profit. Do you think that Southern Cross is an
:43:22. > :43:28.example of the bubble having burst? I do not think we have seen the end
:43:28. > :43:32.of private provision in this area. I do not necessarily agree that we
:43:32. > :43:36.ought to have it only provided within the public sector. People
:43:36. > :43:41.have different needs and we need diversity in the markets so that
:43:41. > :43:45.people can choose what suits them. Some people want to live in flats
:43:45. > :43:50.with supported provision while others need far more supported and
:43:50. > :43:55.detailed care. We need a range of different people putting money into
:43:55. > :44:00.that to make sure we get that variety. One of the things that is
:44:00. > :44:04.absolutely key is that it has to be properly regulated and monitored.
:44:04. > :44:09.The concern is not necessarily where the money comes from but what
:44:09. > :44:14.is done with that money. If fees are going up and up and care is not
:44:14. > :44:19.good enough then that is what we need to be concerned about. It can
:44:20. > :44:24.be a good thing because standards can be raised and costs can be
:44:24. > :44:30.reduced, can't the same be true when hearing for the elderly?
:44:30. > :44:34.can be true but my concern is the imbalance at the moment. As it
:44:34. > :44:38.happens, my mother is in a private residential home and I am very
:44:38. > :44:42.happy with the care she is receiving. The actual process of
:44:42. > :44:49.ensuring she was placed there was a very difficult one. I went through
:44:49. > :44:55.it. When you are placing at relative from their own home into a
:44:55. > :45:00.residential nursing home the division is not necessarily clear.
:45:00. > :45:03.Why is it that we have not got every care home run by local
:45:03. > :45:09.authorities? There must be a barrier for them to invest in such
:45:09. > :45:16.homes. The are finding it less expensive to farm it out to the
:45:16. > :45:21.private sector. That does not mean that the provision is safeguarded.
:45:21. > :45:26.If that imbalance has come into the system where more is coming out of
:45:26. > :45:30.the private sector. Private sectors are ultimately interested in profit.
:45:30. > :45:36.That is the nature of their business. The nature of their
:45:36. > :45:42.business is not primarily always be care of the elderly. The point was
:45:42. > :45:46.made that the company mentioned invest in garden centres while
:45:46. > :45:51.local authorities run leisure centres sort it does not say they
:45:51. > :45:56.are accountable. But they are public accountable. The private
:45:56. > :46:00.sector is not accountable in the same way. The public can always
:46:01. > :46:04.remove their relative from private providers. You do see that. Care
:46:04. > :46:09.homes do go bust because they are not providing the quality of care
:46:09. > :46:13.that people want their relatives to have. We have to make sure we know
:46:13. > :46:18.what is going on in homes so that the choice can be properly
:46:18. > :46:24.exercised. The UK coalition Government wants to see greater
:46:24. > :46:32.involvement from the private sector and the NHS. Do you think the
:46:32. > :46:39.Southern Cross collapse is part of the market? There are two issues.
:46:39. > :46:44.Back at the end of 2008/2007 people were doing foolish things in how
:46:44. > :46:50.they financed such organisations. It happened across the call of the
:46:50. > :46:56.economy and across different sectors. We will see what some of
:46:56. > :47:00.the committee says when it produces its report. Last month Welsh voters
:47:00. > :47:04.were at the polls electing councillors but it seems we have a
:47:04. > :47:13.gender divide in Government. Just over one quarter of those elected
:47:13. > :47:19.were women. It has gone up 2% since four years ago. But it is a
:47:19. > :47:24.miserable showing for women in Wales. Traditionally councils here
:47:24. > :47:28.have been filled by men and it may be that women do not see it as a
:47:28. > :47:32.place where they belong. We have to get rid of some of the
:47:32. > :47:37.misconceptions of what councils are like and the work they do. The work
:47:37. > :47:42.is vital, education, social services, all things close to
:47:42. > :47:49.people's carts, especially women. It may be that at some point we
:47:49. > :47:55.have to legislate to improve this. It maybe we have not tried other
:47:55. > :48:02.things yet like all women shortlists. All the parties, or
:48:02. > :48:06.only Labour have used it. It seems radical that in the future we might
:48:06. > :48:12.have to legislate, would you be in favour of that? I do not think I
:48:12. > :48:16.would be. There is more we have to do first. I used to be a counsellor.
:48:16. > :48:23.I was young and female both of which put me in the minority. We do
:48:23. > :48:30.have an issue with not having a variety of people on our council.
:48:30. > :48:38.They tend to be men, often older and often retired. We need a
:48:38. > :48:48.variety of people which reflect the people they are representing.
:48:48. > :48:51.
:48:51. > :48:58.pale and steel we have heard is the case. -- Male, pale and stale.
:48:58. > :49:04.think the National Assembly for Wales does not extend that. I hope
:49:04. > :49:09.we have made a difference to life in Wales, I hope that will have a
:49:09. > :49:14.reflection on the councils and Westminster in future. The way we
:49:14. > :49:20.elect members is that for the most part we still have elderly men in
:49:20. > :49:26.these positions. We need a variety to reflect society and ensure that
:49:26. > :49:30.the kind of services offered her those needed in society.
:49:30. > :49:34.devolution we also make comparisons with Scotland. In Scotland the
:49:34. > :49:38.national executive have a target that within eight years they have
:49:38. > :49:44.parity in terms of councillors which are being put up for
:49:44. > :49:50.elections and the SNP has set up a woman's Academy. Out goes the kind
:49:50. > :49:55.of stamps short of education you would like to see here in Wales?
:49:55. > :50:00.would like to see campaigns like that. In the Lib Dems we have
:50:00. > :50:04.gender balance which identify his women and minority groups and
:50:04. > :50:11.encourage them to stand. In some cases there is financial assistance
:50:11. > :50:15.because that is of been an issue as well. Is it you're experience that
:50:15. > :50:21.we see a lot of male politicians being elected because there is a
:50:21. > :50:25.lot of male dominance? That is not the case in my own area, in
:50:25. > :50:31.Carmarthenshire. In terms of candidates we are still turning
:50:31. > :50:34.Canale two men and older men to be representatives. In terms of
:50:34. > :50:39.councils it is maybe these men who are in the best financial position
:50:39. > :50:44.to take up these posts quite often. Women are working and are unable to
:50:44. > :50:49.get the time away from work whereas men are in positions which offer
:50:49. > :50:54.them more flexibility. We have to look at those and insure we can get
:50:54. > :50:58.more women elected, more younger people are elected and we have
:50:58. > :51:04.councils and assemblies and a Parliament which reflects society
:51:05. > :51:14.generally. OK. There are some contentious political goings-on in
:51:15. > :51:16.
:51:16. > :51:21.the last week. Here is a look back in 60 seconds. The Peers, a Labour,
:51:21. > :51:26.a Lib Dem and at Plaid Cymru said more AM's were needed for the
:51:26. > :51:36.Assembly to do their job properly. The said the current 60 BM's did
:51:36. > :51:38.
:51:38. > :51:42.not allow for a proper scrutiny of legislation. -- AMs. It was said
:51:42. > :51:47.Michael Gove was considering turning to all levels style exams
:51:47. > :51:52.in England but the Welsh Government have said they will not do that a
:51:52. > :51:57.though a review is under way. There was criticism of the First Minister
:51:57. > :52:02.after he said Trident nuclear submarines would be welcome in
:52:02. > :52:09.Milford Haven if Scottish independence means they leave
:52:09. > :52:19.Faslane. A funding gap of �230 million was reported by the end of
:52:19. > :52:22.
:52:22. > :52:29.the financial year in the NHS. We would welcome nuclear submarines to
:52:29. > :52:34.Milford Haven, think of the jobs. was appalled by the First
:52:34. > :52:38.Minister's response to this. It was a very flippant statement. It made
:52:38. > :52:46.him look silly and made the post of First Minister look silly. Anyone
:52:46. > :52:52.who knows Milford Haven knows there are problems with that. In 1963
:52:52. > :52:56.there was talk of it being a nuclear base but there is one oil
:52:56. > :53:01.refinery at that time and it would have had to close. Look at the
:53:01. > :53:07.situation now. Has he spoken to the owners of the oil refineries? No he
:53:07. > :53:17.has not! Is it about Milford Haven in particular or nuclear submarines
:53:17. > :53:19.
:53:19. > :53:26.coming here. I remember some colleagues tucking about nuclear
:53:26. > :53:30.energy. Let's not have nuclear submarines here? We do not have a
:53:30. > :53:37.policy on that but we are certainly closed to nuclear weapons and
:53:37. > :53:42.always have been. Some of Carwyn Jones's colleagues are. Did he
:53:42. > :53:46.discuss it with Cabinet colleagues? I do not think he did. He made a
:53:46. > :53:50.very stupid statement and refused to retract it. He was still being
:53:50. > :53:57.flippant when I questioned him on it on Wednesday. Do you see any
:53:57. > :54:03.merit in this? I guess it depends on whether you look at the jobs but
:54:03. > :54:07.I do woman with the sentiment it would be difficult to have nuclear
:54:07. > :54:11.weapons in the same area as you have large oil refineries. It was a
:54:11. > :54:16.little foolish the statement and personally I am not in favour of
:54:16. > :54:21.replacing Trident. I think it is a waste of public money. I think we
:54:21. > :54:26.could be putting that money in to better things. Such as? Looking at
:54:26. > :54:30.other ways in which hour armed forces operate and the other
:54:30. > :54:36.weapons and equipment that the armed forces need. Then maybe look
:54:36. > :54:42.at possibly creating some of those jobs in Wales. OK. We must leave it