:01:25. > :01:28.$:/STARTFEED. Later in the programme: As the Conservatives
:01:28. > :01:31.gather for their Spring Conference in Birmingham, we'll hear from
:01:31. > :01:41.Andrew RT Davies - the party's leader in the National Assembly for
:01:41. > :01:41.
:01:41. > :37:11.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2130 seconds
:37:11. > :37:14.Hello. And, on the Sunday Politics Wales: We're drawing to the end of
:37:14. > :37:17.conference season. It is the Conservatives' turn this week in
:37:17. > :37:19.Birmingham. We'll hear from Andrew RT Davies - the party's leader in
:37:19. > :37:22.the National Assembly. And, as unions campaign for the so-called
:37:22. > :37:26.living wage for council workers, is it affordable at a time of spending
:37:26. > :37:36.cuts? Joining me today are the Conservative AM, David Melding, and
:37:36. > :37:36.
:37:36. > :37:41.the Labour AM, Julie Morgan. Weir began last week's programme with
:37:41. > :37:47.looking ahead to the draft budget. I suppose now of the discussion
:37:47. > :37:51.starts between your party - Labour - and the other parties to get an
:37:51. > :37:57.agreement. Where would you like to see this agreement? We are open to
:37:57. > :38:02.discussion with two of the other parties, I think. Not David's
:38:02. > :38:08.party! We will be in discussion with David's party. There will be a
:38:08. > :38:13.lot of the things and the Budget we will be in agreement on. I spoke to
:38:13. > :38:21.Plaid Cymru on Wednesday after it was announced the start they focus
:38:21. > :38:25.on finding jobs for young people. The Liberal Democrats focus on
:38:25. > :38:30.underprivileged students. Do you have any preference? Would you like
:38:30. > :38:36.to see one favoured over the other questions up obviously, we would
:38:36. > :38:43.like both. We will have to work out what is the best one to get through.
:38:43. > :38:47.It has very important things in it. We're helping the most deprived
:38:47. > :38:53.young children. I'm sure all parties will want to support that.
:38:53. > :38:59.It seems that the party has been sidelined. What can you add to this
:38:59. > :39:04.budget discussion? Labour/Conservative combination is
:39:04. > :39:07.not normal politics. We would concentrate on health. We're using
:39:07. > :39:13.our presence in the assembly chamber to emphasise how much we
:39:13. > :39:19.need to spend on health, above what is in the Budget. Especially at the
:39:19. > :39:23.time of great structural change in Wales. That is our focus at the
:39:23. > :39:25.moment. We will leave it there for now. Another conference Sunday and
:39:25. > :39:28.another conference interview for our correspondent, David Cornock,
:39:28. > :39:34.today in Birmingham. He's been talking to the Conservative
:39:34. > :39:38.Assembly leader, Andrew RT Davies. Hello from Birmingham where the
:39:38. > :39:44.Conservatives meet. They find themselves behind in the polls. It
:39:44. > :39:49.could be a tricky conference for David Cameron. Led South -- let's
:39:49. > :39:55.find out more from Andrew RT Davies. We have had the budget was dubbed
:39:55. > :40:00.the various tax initiatives that went wrong. We had the fiasco over
:40:00. > :40:05.the West Coast main land -- main line. You have a chief whip who
:40:05. > :40:10.swears at police officers. How do you think the Government is doing?
:40:10. > :40:14.You have painted a bleak picture. What we have had is a massive
:40:14. > :40:20.inward investment programme for the investigation of the Great Western
:40:20. > :40:24.line to Swansea. �2 million worth of investment will come from that.
:40:24. > :40:29.We have falling inflation and falling unemployment. The
:40:29. > :40:33.indicators in some of the green shoots we require, after the
:40:33. > :40:40.devastation left by the last Labour government are there. We're putting
:40:40. > :40:44.in solid foundations to make sure the economy grows. The economy was
:40:45. > :40:51.growing when the Conservatives came to power. Now it is in recession.
:40:52. > :40:57.We have had massive inward investor -- investment. It has not happened
:40:57. > :41:01.yet. It is a very positive sign. We have falling unemployment and
:41:01. > :41:05.falling inflation. That is supported by a record low interest
:41:05. > :41:08.rates, which is a prerequisite for businesses to invest so they can
:41:08. > :41:13.borrow at attractive rates. Households are having their
:41:13. > :41:18.mortgages kept down. A do not underestimate the challenges.
:41:18. > :41:23.Ultimately there are positives out there. As a party, what we must do
:41:23. > :41:27.is be positive in our outlook and gave -- engage with the public.
:41:27. > :41:31.know that the Chancellor and the Prime Minister have both said there
:41:31. > :41:35.will have to be more spending cuts in future. When David Cameron and
:41:36. > :41:41.George Osborne ring you are asking for advice, what will you tell them
:41:41. > :41:47.question but it is about getting the economy growing. -- what will
:41:47. > :41:50.you tell them? What I Lukacs as leader of the West Conservatives in
:41:50. > :41:58.the National Assembly is the abject failure to deliver any economic
:41:58. > :42:02.strategy within the Welsh Assembly. Forgive me, the question is about
:42:02. > :42:09.cuts. We are building an economy that is starting to show the green
:42:09. > :42:13.shoots of gross. We will have higher tax receipts and up or pay
:42:13. > :42:19.for public services. From my perspective, we have a worse
:42:19. > :42:23.government that is buoyed have any ideas regarding the economy and
:42:23. > :42:28.Enterprise -- enterprise. Only in the Third World Kenya have that
:42:28. > :42:33.ideology in the ministry that is supposed to be growing the economy.
:42:33. > :42:38.-- Kang you have. What about all these benefits that go to wealthy
:42:38. > :42:45.pensioners? Why should David Jones, Secretary of State for Wales, get
:42:45. > :42:50.help with his winter fuel bills? Why should someone with access to a
:42:50. > :43:00.shaver get a free bus pass? That is what the Welsh Conservatives had
:43:00. > :43:00.
:43:00. > :43:05.been championing. -- a chauffeur. We think that 40% tax payer should
:43:05. > :43:12.pay a modest contribution to this - - to their prescriptions. That
:43:12. > :43:16.would free up �35 million to pay for key services, like cancer
:43:16. > :43:26.services and investment in hospices, to help the bar rubble in society.
:43:26. > :43:31.That is where Welsh Labour is subsidising the wealthiest. That is
:43:31. > :43:38.not social justice. We will never do that. The Prime Minister has
:43:38. > :43:42.your confidence. Do you have the confidence of the ams in your team?
:43:42. > :43:47.On your initiative to rebrand the National Assembly Welsh parliament
:43:47. > :43:53.commit you did not consult them first? I have the complete
:43:53. > :43:56.confidence of my members. The rebranding of the Welsh Assembly
:43:56. > :44:01.and a Welsh parliament means the general public will understand but
:44:01. > :44:05.the parliament does and the executive does. Parliament raise
:44:05. > :44:10.tax, don't they question but that would help in people's
:44:10. > :44:15.understanding of where responsibility lies. -- don't they?
:44:15. > :44:19.We have an executive because of the Government of Wales. The need to
:44:19. > :44:25.have a Welsh parliament. We will continue to have that discussion.
:44:25. > :44:35.We are holding there were as government to account. Enjoy your
:44:35. > :44:36.
:44:36. > :44:39.week. -- the Welsh government. What do my guests make of that? A robust
:44:39. > :44:47.defence of UK government policy and the work being carried out by the
:44:47. > :44:51.group you are a member of. I think so. There is quite a lot we can do
:44:51. > :44:58.in the Assembly and the worst government can do. The broad
:44:58. > :45:03.parameters, the major economic decisions, are taken at UK level. -
:45:03. > :45:09.- the Welsh government. We have been asked to co-operate as best as
:45:09. > :45:13.possible so we can get the best policies for Wales. As one might
:45:13. > :45:18.expect from David, an all- encompassing answer, reaching out
:45:18. > :45:26.to other parties. Andrew RT Davies, not quite as kind to your party.
:45:26. > :45:31.Boyd have any ideas on the economy, subsidising wealthy individuals. --
:45:31. > :45:37.for aid of any ideas. It is a bit like a record. The major economic
:45:37. > :45:43.decisions have failed. There is general feeling that we are in real
:45:43. > :45:48.trouble. We have not got out of the problems. On a local level, there
:45:49. > :45:52.seems to be a continuous, like a record playing from the
:45:52. > :45:57.Conservatives about these universal benefits. I feel very strongly that
:45:57. > :46:03.the Labour government in rows is committed to the universal benefits,
:46:03. > :46:09.as a way of helping people in very tough times. The Scottish Labour
:46:09. > :46:14.leader it is turning back on universal benefits. It only seems
:46:14. > :46:18.to be the Labour Party in Wales that thinks that. It is the only
:46:18. > :46:23.part where the Labour Party is in power. We appreciate how important
:46:23. > :46:30.it is for people to have free prescriptions. I am interested in
:46:30. > :46:33.what was said. It sounds like he will get rid of the universal bus
:46:33. > :46:38.pass. With free prescriptions, if you take into account people who
:46:38. > :46:43.are told, or will he take the free prescriptions of pensioners and
:46:43. > :46:49.young people and people with chronic disabilities? People with
:46:49. > :46:56.cancer. That comes to over 90% of the people. That leaves and a 10%.
:46:56. > :47:04.It is not worth the administration to do that. -- under 10%. I think
:47:04. > :47:11.it is like a tired old record. you think Andrew RT Davies with his
:47:11. > :47:19.attacks on government are misguided? I think Julie is wrong
:47:19. > :47:25.with the prescriptive charges. Only 15% of people that had
:47:25. > :47:31.prescriptions were paying for them. It is a substantial amount. You
:47:31. > :47:37.make choices. The free bus pass scheme was estimated to cost about
:47:38. > :47:42.15 million to 20 million, it now costs about 70 million. This has to
:47:42. > :47:47.be examined for efficiency and effectiveness at the time of
:47:47. > :47:53.economic austerity. It may be right to keep them going. It is not
:47:53. > :48:00.beyond politics to ask these questions. The cost for free
:48:00. > :48:04.prescriptions has gone down. But is a sign of their success. Let's take
:48:04. > :48:09.a look at Andrew RT Davies. He has come under attack lately from
:48:09. > :48:14.people criticising his leadership from without the party. If you read
:48:14. > :48:19.the press, for within his own party, how do you weigh up his first 15
:48:19. > :48:23.months in charge? New leaders in the first couple of years have to
:48:23. > :48:28.establish themselves. It takes a while to do this. Nick Bourne went
:48:28. > :48:33.through this. There are always murmurings. He led from the front
:48:33. > :48:38.but it is rocky at times. Andrew has demonstrated, he is a big
:48:38. > :48:42.personality and he has ideas. Not everyone immediately will agree
:48:42. > :48:50.with the ideas. The big decisions he has made, he has led and got
:48:50. > :48:54.them right. Calling the Assembly a parliament, who could object to
:48:54. > :49:02.that? Parliament is a wonderful, British word. It is to ride from
:49:02. > :49:12.the French, of course. -- it is derived. He is seeing whether party
:49:12. > :49:14.
:49:14. > :49:17.is going. The question of a more autonomous Welsh party is one to be
:49:17. > :49:20.considered. Council workers across Wales face a postcode lottery in
:49:20. > :49:23.trying to access the so-called living wage of �7.20 an hour from
:49:23. > :49:25.employers. The Unison trade union has told BBC Wales it is
:49:25. > :49:35.unacceptable that authorities vary in their approach to introducing
:49:35. > :49:36.
:49:36. > :49:40.the wage level. It is Roald Dahl Day at this primary-school.
:49:40. > :49:45.Children at the Breakfast Club are happy to be dressed as favourite
:49:45. > :49:50.storybook characters. The people who serve them are happier as well.
:49:50. > :49:55.The council is increasing wages to �7.20 an hour - the so-called
:49:55. > :50:00.living wage. That is the minimum income necessary to provide shelter,
:50:00. > :50:05.clothing and nutrition. It is over �1 an hour more than the minimum
:50:05. > :50:09.wage. Because of the pay freeze on the public sector workers, then the
:50:09. > :50:14.gap between the minimum wage and the lowest paid local authority
:50:14. > :50:18.member of staff had reduce substantially. With the
:50:18. > :50:23.introduction now of the living wage, then that differential would be
:50:23. > :50:28.further maintained. The living wage is not an idea which is short of
:50:28. > :50:33.support in Wales. It is a Welsh Labour manifesto pledge. At a time
:50:33. > :50:37.of intense pressure on council budgets, not all local of parities
:50:37. > :50:43.can afford to implement it. Even some who are eager to do so face
:50:43. > :50:47.some obstacles. There is a cost to the living wage. Generally speaking,
:50:47. > :50:52.there is an equation which goes something like this, in the sense
:50:52. > :50:56.that if you increase costs, you reduce overtime and your ability to
:50:56. > :51:05.Remploy people. We have to balance those things. Caerphilly has
:51:05. > :51:09.followed Cardiff, which had a living wage in July. It will cost
:51:09. > :51:19.the authority were million pounds the year, �500 per staff member.
:51:19. > :51:27.The story is not so enticing elsewhere. -- �1 million a year. In
:51:28. > :51:32.that other ages, -- in the other areas, they have announced no such
:51:32. > :51:37.plans. A postcode lottery in the availability of the living wage is
:51:38. > :51:42.not acceptable. We're heading very quickly to a minimum wage work
:51:42. > :51:46.force in local government. That is unacceptable. They deliver some of
:51:46. > :51:52.the most important services. What statement are we saying to workers
:51:52. > :51:58.where we are paying them closer and closer to the minimum age -- wage?
:51:58. > :52:04.A policy group has been set up. Naturally we would like to see the
:52:04. > :52:10.implementation of the living wage right across Wales. Not only would
:52:10. > :52:13.-- with local authorities. They want to regenerate the whole area.
:52:13. > :52:17.When we have contractors who will be engaging with the authority to
:52:17. > :52:22.undertake certain works, we will be encouraging those as well to
:52:22. > :52:27.implement the living wage for their members of staff. At a time of
:52:27. > :52:32.financial cutbacks, the living wage poses a problem to the Government
:52:32. > :52:41.and council bosses alike. Civil servants and NHS workers are paid
:52:42. > :52:45.at least �7.20 an hour. Counterparts in local government
:52:45. > :52:52.means they should increase. Julie Morgan, at a time of cuts, is this
:52:52. > :52:56.really affordable? I think it is certainly something we should look
:52:56. > :53:02.at. It is clear that the minimum wage does not take into account
:53:02. > :53:06.different situations in different places. For example, rents and
:53:06. > :53:10.housing costs can vary enormously. It is certainly something that
:53:10. > :53:15.should be looked out. There are other ways of dealing with the
:53:15. > :53:18.problems of the minimum wage have not been as wide as it should. That
:53:18. > :53:23.is what the last Labour government introduced with the tax credits
:53:23. > :53:26.will stop her purpose was to deal with this sort of thing. We should
:53:26. > :53:32.be looking at it and measuring the affordability with the Budget that
:53:32. > :53:37.is available. Where does the Conservative Party stand on this?
:53:37. > :53:42.It is derived from the Labour Party manifesto commitment. It started
:53:42. > :53:46.with the Catholic Church. I have sympathy for the views that we need
:53:46. > :53:51.to have policies and improve the lot of the lowest paid. People who
:53:51. > :53:56.take modest employment, the work ethic has to be strengthened so you
:53:56. > :54:00.encourage people to take jobs where tax is as low as possible and the
:54:00. > :54:05.benefits system does not discriminate against them. It is
:54:06. > :54:11.really important that we do that. I am not against looking at these
:54:11. > :54:15.aspirations. At the moment it will be difficult. The Government at UK
:54:15. > :54:21.level is concentrating on raising the threshold at which to start to
:54:21. > :54:27.pay tax. That helps people on low incomes vary considerably. At the
:54:27. > :54:31.moment, councils are facing cuts. How would you make the case for
:54:31. > :54:36.those to start paying the living wage when they might have to lay
:54:36. > :54:42.people off? This needs to be balanced. I'm not saying every
:54:42. > :54:45.council should do it. It is a Labour commitment, isn't it? It is
:54:45. > :54:52.up to individual councils. There have to measure it against what
:54:52. > :54:56.they cannot do. -- they have. I am pleased that Cardiff will do it -
:54:56. > :55:01.my local authority. It has presumably measured that against
:55:01. > :55:05.what would be lost. It is in the manifesto as something we would
:55:05. > :55:11.aspire to than something we need to look very carefully at. The issue
:55:11. > :55:17.of poverty - child poverty - has to be addressed through work. There is
:55:17. > :55:23.a consistent battle in Wales, public versus private. Contractors
:55:23. > :55:32.carrying out work for the council pay star of the living wage. What
:55:32. > :55:39.do you think about that? -- pay staff. As a Conservative, I would
:55:39. > :55:44.like to see wage rates increase. Especially for lower-paid workers.
:55:44. > :55:49.We want the market to work more effectively. That is the aim.
:55:49. > :55:55.Begets more money into the economy. People on low incomes have to spend
:55:55. > :56:00.all day it earned because they do not have that much income to save.
:56:00. > :56:03.-- all they earn. It is really important that we focus on a part
:56:03. > :56:13.of the economy. That is where we get most economic growth
:56:13. > :56:14.
:56:14. > :56:17.potentially. We will catch up later with the year after the next item.
:56:17. > :56:23.-- with you. Time for a whiz around some of the political stories of
:56:24. > :56:26.the week in 60 seconds. The Finance Minister is talking to opposition
:56:26. > :56:31.Am's after the worst government outlined its spending plans for the
:56:31. > :56:38.next year in the draft budget. She said it was a Budget for wealth --
:56:38. > :56:42.growth and jobs. The Prime Minister said there were no plans to change
:56:42. > :56:48.the law to reduce the legal time limit for abortions after Jeremy
:56:48. > :56:52.Hunt suggested halving the limit from 24 to 12 weeks. Leslie
:56:52. > :56:56.Griffiths said this suggestion was not in the best interest of women
:56:56. > :57:02.in Wales. Hysteric was how the Presiding Officer described the law
:57:02. > :57:07.that makes English and Welsh the official languages of the National
:57:07. > :57:15.Assembly. The official languages Bell puts English and Welsh on an
:57:15. > :57:25.equal footing. -- bail. Barbara Jones from the Philippe Baku was
:57:25. > :57:45.
:57:45. > :57:49.the women that -- car for -- By -- woman kissed. They do have
:57:49. > :57:53.equal status in the chamber. We have to make some choices as to
:57:53. > :57:56.when things are translated and the policies around that. We had an
:57:56. > :58:00.excellent debate in the chamber run the languages bail. One of the
:58:01. > :58:05.powerful points that was made by the former Presiding Officer is
:58:05. > :58:09.that we need to support certain parts of the work - particularly
:58:09. > :58:17.legislation - so you can pass laws in Welsh genuinely as well as of
:58:17. > :58:23.this league doing at the same time in English. -- in Welsh of fiercely.
:58:23. > :58:28.The need to focus on the law-making we do. Julie, we touched on the
:58:28. > :58:32.story on abortion in the 60 seconds. Some comments from Jeremy Hunt. The
:58:32. > :58:36.Prime Minister said that was the views of Jeremy Hunt and not of the
:58:36. > :58:42.Government, to reduce the abortion deadline to 12 weeks instead of 24.
:58:42. > :58:50.What you make of the whole debate? I am staggered that a new health
:58:50. > :58:56.secretary - if they are his personal views, he is the Health
:58:56. > :59:01.Secretary - has thought about reducing it by half. He has made
:59:01. > :59:06.his views clear before the party conference. I was in Westminster
:59:06. > :59:12.the last time abortion was debated. There was a clear balance to keep
:59:12. > :59:17.it at 24 weeks. That was a medical evidence. It is foolhardy of Jeremy
:59:17. > :59:25.Hunt to put this suggestion for it, which would Riyait penalise the
:59:25. > :59:30.most vulnerable women, the ones who have abortions later on. 90% a done
:59:30. > :59:36.in the first 13 weeks. It is the older women, the younger women,
:59:36. > :59:41.where there are fears about the health of the women and of the