:01:19. > :01:22.Later in the programme: Rail electrification for South
:01:22. > :01:25.Wales is on the timetable, but what about the case for rail
:01:25. > :01:35.electrification in the north? We'll hear from the Welsh Secretary,
:01:35. > :01:35.
:01:35. > :35:53.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2058 seconds
:35:53. > :35:56.Hello. Coming up on the Sunday Politics Wales:
:35:56. > :36:00.There's been much talk about rail electrification in the south, but
:36:00. > :36:04.what about in the north? And we continue our look at the
:36:04. > :36:07.Police Commissioner elections in Wales. This week we proceed in a
:36:07. > :36:10.southerly direction. Joining me are two AMs - north and
:36:10. > :36:17.south. Plaid Cymru's Dafydd Elis- Thomas and the Conservative, Nick
:36:17. > :36:22.Ramsay. Let's follow one quickly from the
:36:22. > :36:27.discussion we just heard about the US elections. It is a very tight
:36:28. > :36:36.contest. Maybe or endorsements will make a difference. Who would you be
:36:36. > :36:46.voting for? I will be coming out in favour of Barack Obama tomorrow.
:36:46. > :36:50.The Why? Because I think the whole issue of the way politics in the
:36:50. > :36:56.United States has been handled, the division between Congress and
:36:56. > :37:01.presidency, I disastrous for government in the country. I am
:37:01. > :37:06.critical of it Barack Obama not being green enough. I think it is
:37:06. > :37:11.going to come down to the economy. I think it is wide open. I am going
:37:11. > :37:15.to go for Mitt Romney, partly because my crew leader in the
:37:15. > :37:21.assembly, Andrew RT Davies, announced he was related to Mitt
:37:21. > :37:24.Romney a few weeks ago. I don't know where they are the Mitt Romney
:37:24. > :37:28.will be able to get in touch to tell us whether he is related or
:37:28. > :37:30.not. We will be back with you shortly.
:37:30. > :37:33.Politicians, councils and business groups need to work together to
:37:33. > :37:36.make the case for the electrification of the North Wales
:37:36. > :37:39.rail line, according to the Secretary of State for Wales, David
:37:39. > :37:42.Jones. He's told the Sunday Politics Wales that meetings have
:37:42. > :37:45.already taken place between the UK and Welsh governments to try to
:37:45. > :37:55.make progress on investment in a faster train service to help boost
:37:55. > :37:55.
:37:55. > :37:58.the region's economy. Here's Brian Meechan.
:37:58. > :38:02.The Welsh government believes a ratification of the North Wales
:38:02. > :38:07.Line will help tackle poverty by creating businesses and jobs across
:38:07. > :38:11.the region. The town is also a gateway to Europe with its links to
:38:11. > :38:15.Ireland. Supporters of high-speed rail say it is not just about the
:38:15. > :38:20.economic growth it will bring to this region, it also creates a
:38:20. > :38:25.vital transport link between Ireland and North East Wales and
:38:25. > :38:29.then on to Liverpool and Manchester. Experts put the cost at �300
:38:29. > :38:34.million. The local MP believes that will build on the money that has
:38:34. > :38:38.gone into the West Coast line in England. There has been huge
:38:38. > :38:44.investment on the West Coast rail. Some �9 billion has been spent
:38:44. > :38:47.already but it only goes as far as Chester. We needed to go west
:38:47. > :38:51.further. It is an international link and we need have an
:38:51. > :38:55.international status. The UK government is planning high-speed
:38:55. > :39:01.rail link that goes from London at to Manchester and Leeds. It has
:39:01. > :39:03.also pledged to the electrification of the line not just a Cardiff but
:39:03. > :39:11.the Swansea. Councils across the region say North Wales cannot be
:39:11. > :39:16.left behind. What we have not had is this feeling of somebody knows
:39:16. > :39:23.what the plan is for Wales from infrastructure. We have had the
:39:23. > :39:29.development of the North Wales road that has made a difference but
:39:29. > :39:35.somehow nobody in government at Westminster level, or in Wales, has
:39:35. > :39:39.really got this picture of, if OK, what is North Wales going to the
:39:39. > :39:43.light in 10 years' time in terms of infrastructure? Business leaders
:39:43. > :39:47.argue that there needs to be a serious look at the benefits.
:39:47. > :39:52.would like them to prepare the business case. I would like to see
:39:52. > :39:57.that happen very quickly and I would like the business case to be
:39:57. > :40:02.implemented relatively quickly. But it is important that we forecast
:40:02. > :40:07.and quantify exactly what that business bounce, that economic
:40:07. > :40:13.benefit, is actually going to be. Llandudno railway station is to
:40:13. > :40:16.benefit from over �5 million worth of investment from the Welsh and UK
:40:16. > :40:26.governments. It will mean improvements to the front page and
:40:26. > :40:31.
:40:31. > :40:34.a new ticket office and that will be delivered by 2014. It is a major
:40:34. > :40:39.Investment, whatever way you look at it and that is why we need to
:40:39. > :40:43.build the business case sooner. We have got to convince the Department
:40:43. > :40:47.for transport that it is a good Investment, which is why we want to
:40:48. > :40:55.start the discussions sooner rather than later. The UK and Welsh
:40:55. > :40:59.governments have already held meetings about electrification.
:40:59. > :41:03.Rectification is not cheap and its supporters F - except that these
:41:03. > :41:07.are challenging times with the public finances but they say the
:41:07. > :41:11.economic benefits it will bring, including creating jobs, means it
:41:11. > :41:15.has got to be a priority for North Wales.
:41:15. > :41:21.Let's get the reaction from our guests. The Secretary of State,
:41:21. > :41:27.David Jones, said there that he and others must persuade many agencies
:41:27. > :41:31.to go ahead with this. Is he going to be able to do that? I think he
:41:31. > :41:36.will. David Jones is very good at persuasion and that is what it
:41:36. > :41:40.needs. If we have had a discussion about rectification in South Wales
:41:40. > :41:45.for a long time and we have got what we wanted there. North Wales
:41:45. > :41:51.must not be left behind. The sooner we see a letter vacation in the not
:41:51. > :42:01.as well, if the better for the Welsh economy. At the moment, the
:42:01. > :42:02.
:42:02. > :42:08.timetable runs almost hourly out of Chester. It makes, it is not make
:42:08. > :42:14.any sense at all to run a diesel locomotive under electric overhead
:42:14. > :42:18.wires. I believe that should be done. But we have a huge problem
:42:19. > :42:23.with the main road in terms of lorries. When there are divergence,
:42:23. > :42:28.they cannot the Conwy Valley on roads which are not built for that
:42:28. > :42:32.sort of traffic so we need to look for rectification for freight, if
:42:32. > :42:37.to take freight off the road as well. But we also need to look at
:42:37. > :42:41.Chester to Newport. Once you have done those two, it makes sense to
:42:41. > :42:51.have an rectification with in Wales as well off because the valleys
:42:51. > :42:51.
:42:51. > :43:01.will already be electrified. There will be plenty of it pilots' give
:43:01. > :43:04.some people have a fair way. The economic dimension, the case was
:43:04. > :43:09.made in the peace there, but last week we were talking about
:43:09. > :43:14.infrastructure spending and how that helps the economy. How would
:43:14. > :43:18.this fits into that? If it is not just the passengers, he it is the
:43:19. > :43:26.freight as well. North Wales is the main road to Ireland. You can take
:43:26. > :43:30.freight off the road. But there has got to be a good business case. We
:43:30. > :43:33.saw delays and problems with the electrification of the South Wales
:43:33. > :43:37.line off because I don't think the right arguments were made early on
:43:37. > :43:42.enough with a that business case. But we have seen that the UK
:43:42. > :43:45.government are receptive as long as the right arguments are made. David
:43:45. > :43:50.Jones has an interest at their and he is the perfect person to push
:43:50. > :43:53.this. Infrastructure is very important. As the economy improves
:43:53. > :43:59.and we come out of recession, if we have got to have that so we are
:43:59. > :44:04.best suited to meet the challenges. Timetable wise, plenty of people
:44:04. > :44:08.have got things to say about timetables for railway lines, but
:44:08. > :44:14.in terms of this project, when would you expect it to happen?
:44:14. > :44:18.There is a clear series of linked Investment. We have got the Swansea
:44:18. > :44:26.Investment, which I issue now is paid for completely by the UK
:44:27. > :44:30.government. I am looking to you because you are a supporter of the
:44:30. > :44:35.UK government. But then there will be the electrification for the
:44:35. > :44:42.valleys and that is very important in terms of Cardiff and Newport as
:44:42. > :44:47.commuting and so on. But I am arguing not just to look at Chester
:44:47. > :44:52.but also looking at Chester down to Newport, because you have got there
:44:52. > :44:56.already something like 25 trains per day from Dewsbury to Cardiff
:44:56. > :45:03.because you have got the Liverpool link and the Manchester link and in
:45:03. > :45:08.order to get an effective integrated service, there is lots
:45:08. > :45:13.we need to look at. It is a bit like a broad band. Once you have
:45:13. > :45:17.got one piece, everyone else is missing out. The UK government, I
:45:17. > :45:22.am pleased they are doing what they are doing, but they are creating
:45:22. > :45:26.their own he pretends to have a more rectification. But we have a
:45:26. > :45:36.very important point in the economic cycle. If we put
:45:36. > :45:44.
:45:44. > :45:51.investment in now, it will pay dividends in 20 years' time.
:45:51. > :45:55.will leave it there for now. There are calls for a new inquiry into
:45:55. > :46:05.the abuse of children in care homes in North Wales in the Nineties and
:46:05. > :46:06.
:46:06. > :46:12.Eighties. Keith Towler has at the request. - backs. He joins us from
:46:13. > :46:18.our Swansea studio now. Thank you for joining us. Just Phyllis in,
:46:18. > :46:25.why are you calling for a new inquiry? What we have seen in the
:46:25. > :46:29.last 48 hours is some very strong evidence that victims who suffered
:46:29. > :46:35.abuse in North Wales children's homes were denied the opportunity
:46:35. > :46:38.to talk in full about what happened to them. This victim says that 30
:46:38. > :46:43.per cent of what he wanted to say he was not allowed to say and it
:46:43. > :46:47.was not clear to him why. By today's standards, that is
:46:47. > :46:51.completely unacceptable. The fact he has come forward with that means
:46:51. > :46:56.we have got to take that seriously and the police and others should
:46:56. > :47:01.have the opportunity to fully investigate what he has to say.
:47:01. > :47:05.understand that any decisions will be taken by the first minister,
:47:05. > :47:10.Carwyn Jones. Have you been in touch with him? What would you want
:47:11. > :47:15.to impress upon him? I have not had the opportunity to get in touch
:47:15. > :47:20.with the First Minister yet. I will write to him tomorrow morning. I
:47:20. > :47:29.think what we need to do is sit down and understand what this is it
:47:29. > :47:32.in is saying. We need to understand the terms of reference of the child
:47:32. > :47:37.abuse report and what they were able to look at and what they were
:47:37. > :47:41.not able to look at. F over the last 48 hours, people are saying
:47:41. > :47:46.that maybe people are being protected, maybe the establishment
:47:46. > :47:51.is being protected. By today's standards, whenever you look at the
:47:51. > :47:55.allegations that a victim is making, it is always the wrong thing to try
:47:55. > :48:00.and defend an individual or an institution in favour of looking
:48:00. > :48:05.fully at what happened to somebody who suffered abuse. That is what I
:48:05. > :48:10.will be saying to the first minister. Has anybody come forward
:48:10. > :48:13.and contacted you or your office in recent weeks regarding any
:48:13. > :48:17.allegations dating back to the Seventies or Eighties? If no, but
:48:17. > :48:21.it is an important point that there might be people who are picking up
:48:21. > :48:26.what is happening in the media and if they do want to get in touch, I
:48:26. > :48:33.would be pleased to hear from them. My response has been to try to
:48:33. > :48:40.support what this victim has said. Thank you very much for your time,
:48:40. > :48:47.Keith Towler. Dafydd Elis-Thomas, what do you
:48:47. > :48:56.make for the call for a new inquiry? I fully support his call.
:48:56. > :49:06.I was aware of some of these issues and I discussed them and I heard
:49:06. > :49:07.
:49:07. > :49:13.this was the worst job. I think we have got to make sure that at all
:49:13. > :49:21.times the evidence presented by people who have been abuse should
:49:21. > :49:25.be for front, at the forefront of our concerns. I am sure most people
:49:25. > :49:32.would agree with the sentiments from Keith Towler, who are calling
:49:32. > :49:37.for a new inquiry. Exactly. If you look at the original inquiry, and I
:49:37. > :49:41.think that, at the time, if that was needed, but things have moved
:49:41. > :49:46.on. All sorts of rumblings are going on. It is better that all
:49:46. > :49:51.this is dealt with in an inquiry. We have a Children's Commissioner
:49:51. > :49:54.now, if we did not have that then. I think Keith Towler is the person
:49:54. > :50:01.to progress this with the First Minister when he gets an
:50:01. > :50:04.opportunity. It was the very horror of child abuse in Wales, in North
:50:04. > :50:10.Wales in particular, which brought about the appointment of the
:50:10. > :50:12.Children's Commissioner. This is a job for Keith Towler to do,
:50:12. > :50:15.particularly for the police to investigate, but it may also be
:50:16. > :50:19.something that the first minister might want to make a statement
:50:19. > :50:23.about this coming week when the Assembly will be meeting, and I
:50:23. > :50:26.hope he does. It's less than two weeks now until
:50:26. > :50:29.polling day for the elections to choose the first ever Police and
:50:29. > :50:31.Crime Commissioners. It'll mean a big change in policing with the new
:50:31. > :50:33.commissioners replacing local police authorities, giving them
:50:33. > :50:38.control over budgets, priorities and appointing the local chief
:50:38. > :50:44.constable. We have four forces in Wales. We've already featured Gwent
:50:44. > :50:49.and North Wales, this week, Mark Hannaby reports on South Wales.
:50:49. > :50:54.This is the headquarters of South Wales Police in Bridgend. The force
:50:55. > :50:58.covers an area containing more than 40 per cent of Wales's operation.
:50:58. > :51:01.That area extends from Swansea and the Gower in the west through the
:51:01. > :51:07.South Wales valleys and the Glamorgan close to Cardiff in the
:51:07. > :51:10.east. Recorded crime here fell six per cent in the year to June.
:51:10. > :51:16.Responsibilities include policing major sporting events, that
:51:16. > :51:22.included the Olympic football in the summer. The budget is �249
:51:22. > :51:27.million. Total savings of �46 million are planned by 2015. 292
:51:27. > :51:37.police officer posts will have gone off but there will be around 175
:51:37. > :51:37.
:51:38. > :51:43.more faith community support officers. - community support
:51:43. > :51:47.officers. There are four candidates. The winner will be responsible for
:51:47. > :51:52.appointing the Chief Constable, setting up policing priorities,
:51:52. > :51:55.reporting on progress and setting up budgets. Tony Verderame, a
:51:55. > :52:03.businessman and chairman of the Cardiff Older Persons Forum is
:52:03. > :52:07.standing as an independent. I think it should remain independent,
:52:07. > :52:13.impartial and deliver a service where it is needed most. It should
:52:13. > :52:18.not come under the umbrella of the politicians. I think it must have
:52:19. > :52:23.knowledge within the community as - and experience of what can be done
:52:23. > :52:27.within the community and deliver what communities need, not what the
:52:27. > :52:32.politicians want to. For another independent candidate is Michael
:52:32. > :52:37.Baker, a lawyer and former police officer. I am a man of great
:52:37. > :52:42.integrity, having been a police officer for 30 years. I know how
:52:42. > :52:46.the police service works. I am a listener, I am also a commercial
:52:46. > :52:51.mediator, which means I know how to listen to people and take their
:52:51. > :52:56.views on board. I am not afraid of the police service. I have taken
:52:56. > :53:01.action against the police service and tell them to account. I can
:53:01. > :53:07.take forward complete independence and impartiality. The Conservative
:53:07. > :53:10.candidate is Caroline Jones. She has worked in the Prison Service.
:53:10. > :53:15.My priorities are to get more police out on the street by cutting
:53:15. > :53:20.the bureaucracy which was left by the previous administration. If the
:53:20. > :53:24.police were spend half-an-hour taking an incident from a member of
:53:24. > :53:28.the public and then they would go back and spend four-and-a-half
:53:28. > :53:32.hours dealing with the paperwork regarding that. Obviously, one of
:53:32. > :53:38.my aims would be to cut the level of bureaucracy and have at the
:53:38. > :53:43.police engage more with the public. Lay the's candidate is Alun Michael,
:53:43. > :53:47.the former Cardiff and Penarth MP and the former minister responsible
:53:47. > :53:51.for crime. It is absolutely crucial that we get the right person with
:53:51. > :53:55.the authority to all the police to account but you also cut crime and
:53:55. > :53:59.work with communities in order to make sure that every community in
:53:59. > :54:03.South Wales is safer in the future and they have been in the past. I
:54:03. > :54:07.think it is a big challenge at a time of cuts which is why I decided
:54:07. > :54:13.to stand down from Parliament and often myself for election off but I
:54:13. > :54:16.believe it is crucial if because it affects every member of the public.
:54:16. > :54:21.The UK Government says if commissioners will not be there to
:54:21. > :54:29.run police forces but to hold them to account. Floating is on 15th
:54:29. > :54:39.November. - voting. You can find a more by going to a
:54:39. > :54:40.
:54:40. > :54:43.hour online pages. The address is on the screen. We'll have a look at
:54:43. > :54:45.Dyfed-Powys next week. Now it's time for a quick look back at some
:54:45. > :54:50.of the political stories of this week in 60 seconds.
:54:50. > :54:56.Tour find council cost up with almost 2500 and use laptops after
:54:56. > :54:59.it for more than 1000 of them for a Welsh government-backed project for
:54:59. > :55:03.school pupils. The council said that he took his should have been
:55:03. > :55:06.shared with another local authorities will stop the first
:55:06. > :55:13.minister and the Welsh secretary welcomed confirmation that Hitachi
:55:13. > :55:17.is survived nuclear project Horizon. Up to 6000 jobs could be created
:55:17. > :55:21.while the new reactors are built on Anglesey. The UK government said it
:55:21. > :55:30.would not challenge the new law off to put VAT - English and Welsh on
:55:30. > :55:34.the same level at the Assembly. And the Anglesey MP urged the UK
:55:34. > :55:38.government to protect the great British pint by scrapping a rise in
:55:38. > :55:43.the attacks. Ministers rejected the call to scrap the be a duty
:55:43. > :55:52.escalator amid fears costs are leading to pubs closing and the
:55:52. > :56:02.Tories going bust. - breweries going bust.
:56:02. > :56:06.Let's have a final chat with our guests. What do you think of the
:56:06. > :56:11.plea to bring an end to the escalator? We have been talking
:56:11. > :56:15.about this for a long time. But it has got to happen. He is very easy
:56:15. > :56:19.to buy very cheap alcohol in supermarkets and get funds, which
:56:19. > :56:24.are the heads of many rural communities, are going to the wall.
:56:24. > :56:29.I think they should be a dispensation for community hopes
:56:29. > :56:38.like pubs and I'm glad it is being progress. Would you endorse that
:56:38. > :56:48.call? We are talking about pints. am a pig advocate of these new
:56:48. > :56:54.breweries that are springing up all over Wales. I was launching one in
:56:54. > :57:04.North Wales, but you can't have local beer without having local
:57:04. > :57:05.
:57:05. > :57:13.pubs in which to sell them. We can continue the pub talk after the
:57:13. > :57:18.programme. Another thing we have touched on, the news that a catchy
:57:18. > :57:24.have fought Horizon. That gives the project a bit of a boost. This is
:57:24. > :57:33.very exciting business. This is the advanced boiling water reactor, and
:57:33. > :57:43.it is not a big kettle. It is advanced Canadian technology. It is
:57:43. > :57:47.
:57:47. > :57:52.a very important Investment. It is a hugely important and also
:57:52. > :57:58.provides us with low carbon energy and an opportunity to build a power
:57:58. > :58:02.renewables. Was this a welcome boost? Definitely. 10 years down
:58:02. > :58:06.the line, the lights are going to be going out. I think we are going
:58:06. > :58:12.to be going down to four per cent of electricity surplus which is not
:58:12. > :58:14.enough. We have got to have whatever power we can from
:58:14. > :58:24.renewables and nuclear power. If you want to deal with carbon
:58:24. > :58:28.
:58:28. > :58:33.emissions, nuclear power has got to be the way ahead. They are also