:00:52. > :00:55.The Chancellor comes clean. They sing the death as it is taking
:00:55. > :00:58.longer than he hopes. Will have the latest and get the Lib Dem few days
:00:58. > :01:02.before the Autumn Statement. As the dust settles on Leveson and
:01:02. > :01:08.Ed Miliband repeats his call for press regulation by law, his Labour
:01:08. > :01:11.on the wrong side of the argument? We will ask Harriet Harman.
:01:11. > :01:21.And he is the tough new Justice Secretary intent on making life
:01:21. > :01:21.
:01:21. > :37:11.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2150 seconds
:37:11. > :37:13.hell for the criminal classes - Allow London Sunday Politics Wales:
:37:13. > :37:19.The new Anti-Human Trafficking Co- ordinator tells me that modern-day
:37:19. > :37:25.slavery is happening across Wales. And should is keen to republish
:37:25. > :37:30.classic Welsh books continue to get public fault and? -- a scheme to be
:37:30. > :37:33.published classical whilst books continue to get public funding?
:37:33. > :37:39.That star with comments from the Chancellor, looking his Autumn
:37:39. > :37:43.Statement. He says dealing with the deficit is taking longer. Is that
:37:43. > :37:47.an admission that plan A is not working? Plan a has been modified
:37:47. > :37:51.so many times it is no longer plan a. It is a good thing because you
:37:51. > :37:55.have got to get the balance right between tackling the deficit and
:37:55. > :37:58.managing the economy so we don't plunge back into recession. The Lib
:37:58. > :38:01.Dems have been particularly keen in terms of getting more capital
:38:02. > :38:07.investment and making sure that we go a bit slower to make sure we get
:38:07. > :38:10.the balance right. They may be blaming us for that but we have to
:38:10. > :38:19.be realistic about what we can achieve in the time available so in
:38:19. > :38:25.a sense, he is right. Peter seems to be taking responsibility for
:38:25. > :38:29.that. Are you pleased to hear the Chancellor say that he is taking
:38:29. > :38:32.longer? I suppose that fits into the agenda set by Ed Balls that
:38:32. > :38:37.cutting too fast and too deep is not the way to go. I am not pleased
:38:37. > :38:42.to hear him say that he has been on the wrong track. I would have been
:38:42. > :38:46.much happier... I'm not sure he said that. That is what it amounts
:38:46. > :38:51.to because he had a plant that was supposed to deliver and pay down
:38:51. > :38:56.the debt and dull the pain was going to before some game. So I am
:38:56. > :39:03.not pleased to hear that he has put people out of work. -- pain that
:39:03. > :39:08.was going to be fought again. I hope that he will start to realise
:39:08. > :39:12.that if you do not invest, particularly in Wales, by some
:39:13. > :39:18.measure in capital projects, and don't invest in the public sector -
:39:18. > :39:21.which seems to be the only game in town for delivery at a moment. I
:39:21. > :39:24.was speaking to businesses yesterday who were telling me that
:39:25. > :39:29.they had supported the Conservatives practically all their
:39:29. > :39:33.lives but on this one, they are wrong and that Labour's approach
:39:33. > :39:38.would have suited them far better, and that the banks will not support
:39:38. > :39:41.their businesses. Some of them are long-standing businesses and a
:39:41. > :39:46.close to collapse just because of those particular policies that are
:39:46. > :39:50.not working. It does not please me. We will get more from the
:39:50. > :39:54.Chancellor on Thursday in his statement.
:39:54. > :39:57.In the last three years, there were around 50 recorded cases of human
:39:57. > :40:00.trafficking in Wales. Evidence suggests that the real figure is
:40:00. > :40:04.actually significantly higher. There was government have just
:40:04. > :40:10.appointed Steven Chapman as the new anti- trafficking co-ordinator to
:40:10. > :40:14.tackle the problem. When I met up with him in the Senedd, I began by
:40:14. > :40:17.asking him what he saw as his biggest challenge. The biggest
:40:18. > :40:23.challenge is for people to recognise that human trafficking is
:40:23. > :40:28.really slavery. What I would like to do is raise our profile so that
:40:28. > :40:32.people start to report these incidents. So far we only ever get
:40:32. > :40:36.to hear of incidents when they reside the police ordered UK Border
:40:36. > :40:41.Agency activity. What I would like is for the public of Wales to
:40:41. > :40:45.report on the incidents and to be aware that in 2012, slavery is
:40:46. > :40:52.still going on. We know from statistics that there are 3 million
:40:52. > :41:02.people coming through Alport every year. His Wales a soft touch. --
:41:02. > :41:03.
:41:03. > :41:09.fruit our ports. We have many would scheme to Wales and many ports that
:41:09. > :41:12.are not as large as Dover that benefits from the man power
:41:12. > :41:17.extended by the Border Agency and equipment. We could be seen as a
:41:17. > :41:22.soft target but we needed to make sure that incidents are being
:41:22. > :41:25.reported. I do not want to make assumptions about anything but I
:41:25. > :41:31.think it is fair to say that right across the United Kingdom and
:41:31. > :41:36.further afield, anti- human trafficking is second only to anti-
:41:36. > :41:40.drugs in the world crime league. you were to see news headlines
:41:40. > :41:43.around this issue, you might think this is just a problem with the sex
:41:43. > :41:48.industry and people being trafficked into brothels. I would
:41:48. > :41:53.like to dispel that myth. It is not just about females being trafficked
:41:53. > :41:58.into the sex trade. It is not just about young females. It is about
:41:58. > :42:03.young people, children, old people, and yes, the sex trade is involved
:42:03. > :42:09.but we also have domestic servitude, people working in factories,
:42:09. > :42:15.restaurants, fields, on farms - and not just cannabis farms. It goes
:42:15. > :42:18.right across the piece. It is not just focused on big cities. It is
:42:18. > :42:23.rural areas. We know here in Wales we have a very large rural
:42:23. > :42:28.population. All those things you have spoken about - are you certain
:42:28. > :42:35.they are happening in Wales? Yes, I am certain. They are happening
:42:35. > :42:40.across the UK and this is why... It is a public awareness campaign that
:42:40. > :42:45.needs to be refocused. Let's not beat about the bush. Slavery is a
:42:45. > :42:49.crime and like all crimes, what I am asking is if the public are
:42:49. > :42:53.suspicious that something is going on, they report it to the police.
:42:53. > :42:57.Welsh government is the first in the UK to establish a post like
:42:57. > :43:02.this. What does that say to you about their commitment to the
:43:02. > :43:06.issue? It is one of the reasons I applied for a job. I live in Wales
:43:06. > :43:11.and the Welsh government are taking the lead in the UK. There is no one
:43:11. > :43:16.to fill this role in London for England, or in Northern Ireland or
:43:16. > :43:22.Scotland. So this is very much an agenda that is being led by the
:43:22. > :43:26.Welsh government and I am proud to be working for them. I would also
:43:26. > :43:31.like to say that we have recognised this problem and we are making
:43:31. > :43:35.positive actions. Also, as I said before, I would like to send a
:43:35. > :43:39.message of hope out to those people who are being trafficked that we
:43:39. > :43:47.are going to be working together and we are going to seek and locate
:43:47. > :43:51.you, rescue you and look after you. Joyce, I think that is the first
:43:51. > :43:55.chance we have had to hear from Steven Chapman. His post came as a
:43:55. > :44:02.result of lots of work that you have carried out during your time
:44:02. > :44:06.as an am. What did you make of that? What he said his ride. Human
:44:06. > :44:10.trafficking is the second biggest crime internationally. He is right
:44:10. > :44:15.to point out that it is not just about women in the sex trade,
:44:15. > :44:20.although I have to say primarily, it is. But if we close our eyes and
:44:20. > :44:28.ears to all the other forms of trafficking that are going on, then
:44:28. > :44:35.we will miss those opportunities. What he says also about Wales'
:44:35. > :44:42.leading the way is absolutely right. I have given talks right across the
:44:42. > :44:46.UK and into Europe. Every time I do that, people are impressed by the
:44:46. > :44:51.lead but the minister and the Minister for children are taking in
:44:51. > :44:54.terms of recognising it up, firstly as a crime and secondly about
:44:54. > :45:04.dealing with feet out fall and protecting those very vulnerable
:45:04. > :45:06.
:45:06. > :45:11.What can he do about it? How can he make it better? By raising the
:45:11. > :45:16.profile and also by gathering people who have the intelligence to
:45:16. > :45:19.do something about it together in a forum, so that everybody that is
:45:19. > :45:24.engaged in doing something about it understands what it is they are
:45:24. > :45:29.supposed to do. There are protocols and place that help people to
:45:29. > :45:36.understand what they ought to do and I think the major part of the
:45:36. > :45:42.role is getting action on the ground and protecting the victims.
:45:42. > :45:46.You heard him say that he hopes to get the public to recognise that
:45:46. > :45:50.and an easy way to do that is, if you have a house in your street and
:45:50. > :45:56.you see multiple people coming backwards and forwards, that should
:45:56. > :45:58.really raised alarm and particularly if you notice that
:45:58. > :46:04.maybe they are from different cultures and speak different
:46:04. > :46:09.languages. -- raised the alarm. The number of people who are trafficked
:46:09. > :46:16.are here legally and they are Europeans, so a lot of activity
:46:16. > :46:21.just like people would see when people are dealing in drugs -
:46:21. > :46:25.people back and forth and lots of different people. If they see that,
:46:25. > :46:30.they must not assume that they cannot be involved. They can make a
:46:30. > :46:35.phone call. He was setting out all kinds of things that were going on
:46:35. > :46:39.in Wales. Will that surprise a lot of people? You represent South West
:46:39. > :46:43.Wales and are based in Swansea. They may not be surprised it is
:46:43. > :46:47.happening there put across rural Wales, he says people are being
:46:47. > :46:51.treated as slaves. I think it will and that is part of the value of a
:46:51. > :46:55.post. In terms of raising profile and making people aware of what is
:46:55. > :46:59.going on. It is not as making people aware on the street but
:46:59. > :47:03.raising the awareness with government agencies. He referred to
:47:03. > :47:07.the issue of Wales being a soft touch and one of the reasons for
:47:07. > :47:10.that is five years ago, a lot of Customs and Excise officials were
:47:10. > :47:13.pulled out of Welsh ports. If the government were made aware of that
:47:13. > :47:20.in terms of human trafficking, maybe they could rethink that
:47:20. > :47:24.particular issue. It is a different UK government now. He said it could
:47:24. > :47:29.be seen as a soft touch. He could be and there are issues about
:47:29. > :47:34.Customs and Excise but also the police. It is an issue of
:47:34. > :47:37.priorities. We have new police commissioner has in place. They
:47:37. > :47:40.might be interested in this particular issue and I will be
:47:40. > :47:44.hoping to work with them in terms of directing police resources
:47:44. > :47:49.towards this. It is a really important post and one which can
:47:49. > :47:55.make a difference. If you use that role to go watchmakers agencies, to
:47:55. > :48:02.raise awareness with ordinary people -- to co-ordinate those
:48:02. > :48:06.agencies, then we can make a difference in terms of trafficking.
:48:06. > :48:13.Whilst we talk about our borders, the majority of human trafficking
:48:13. > :48:20.actually happens within the borders of the UK. If we put an awful lot
:48:20. > :48:24.of resources in one direction, or we might miss that majority of the
:48:24. > :48:28.traffic. All the evidence tells us people might be trafficked into the
:48:28. > :48:32.country wants but then they are traffic around the country multiple
:48:32. > :48:37.times and it is those issues that the agencies really need to be
:48:37. > :48:39.aware of. We will leave it there for the moment and we will be back
:48:40. > :48:44.for some more contributions in a moment.
:48:44. > :48:48.A scheme to republish classic Welsh books that have gone a to print
:48:48. > :48:54.must continue getting public funding, according to the Wales
:48:54. > :48:58.Book of the Year winner Jon Gower for the Welsh government is facing
:48:58. > :49:03.a call to withdraw financial support.
:49:03. > :49:08.Jon Gower won the Welsh language event that grave for his novel. He
:49:08. > :49:13.is in the process of reaching the 34 books that form the Library of
:49:13. > :49:18.Wales series. Walking the road in the October evening, they felt on
:49:18. > :49:22.their faces their own country. The but so far published by a company
:49:22. > :49:29.who say they have reached a landmark in sales.
:49:29. > :49:34.But series is printed here. They have sold 50,000 copies since the
:49:34. > :49:39.books started coming off the presses in 2006. Supporters say it
:49:39. > :49:43.is about looking after Welsh heritage. We see the way we but
:49:43. > :49:47.after castles and museums look after artifacts. Books are dead
:49:47. > :49:54.artifacts unless they are read and I think the fact that these books
:49:54. > :50:02.are in schools, and that you can argue about them - as some of
:50:02. > :50:09.weaker than others. Having good books and encouragement so to read
:50:09. > :50:12.such books is a good thing. This series has 34 titles which had been
:50:12. > :50:17.out of print and are now back in circulation and being used in
:50:17. > :50:23.schools and universities. That has happened with the help of a �50,000
:50:23. > :50:27.grant from the Welsh government, up by the Welsh Books Council. At the
:50:27. > :50:31.talk in Cardiff this week, this novelist was extremely critical of
:50:31. > :50:37.the public funding of the Welsh publishing industry. We where is
:50:37. > :50:47.the scrutiny? Where is the accountability? Where is somebody
:50:47. > :50:51.independent going in and say Int, "what the hell are you doing?" This
:50:51. > :50:59.Is Your Money, my aid money, the voters' money. Some in the audience
:51:00. > :51:06.took exception to his argument. But Julian says he is not against
:51:06. > :51:10.funding the arts in general, but books in particular. I would say no
:51:10. > :51:16.more funding for books. Welsh language books - that is a
:51:16. > :51:20.different matter altogether. I have no issue with that. That is fine.
:51:20. > :51:25.But these postgraduate literature student at Swansea University say
:51:25. > :51:34.the Library of Wales series is a vital resource. It is important to
:51:34. > :51:41.have art supported across the spectrum. Literature is important.
:51:41. > :51:46.A sense of cultural identity is important. How big the series there
:51:46. > :51:51.and having it continuing to produce more volumes has been a treasure
:51:51. > :51:56.for students. -- having the series. We need hospitals but we need
:51:56. > :52:03.culture, as well. There are calls for the Welsh government to
:52:03. > :52:09.continue its support of literature. There is a philistine element that
:52:09. > :52:14.says, but books first as hospitals. Well, in a grown-up Coldred, and as
:52:14. > :52:24.well as premature as politically, there has to be room for all that.
:52:24. > :52:28.-- in a grown up country and as a Wales matures politically. Whether
:52:28. > :52:34.this and other aspects of public spending make economic sense is
:52:34. > :52:38.coming under increasing scrutiny as budgets continue to tighten.
:52:38. > :52:43.Peter Black, your response to the call made by Julian for this kind
:52:43. > :52:49.of funding to be withdrawn. Speaking as someone who never
:52:49. > :52:52.throws books away and spell of -- spends a lot of time looking
:52:52. > :52:58.through second-hand bookshops, I think it is important that these
:52:58. > :53:02.titles continue to be available. We have to ask whether it reprinting
:53:02. > :53:07.titles is the most appropriate way to do it. A lot of people accessing
:53:07. > :53:12.literature through electronic books. We have to ask whether the money
:53:13. > :53:16.would be spent better publishing them in that way. That would be
:53:16. > :53:21.cheaper. The wider point about support for literature and for the
:53:21. > :53:26.arts is one that I would like to see continued. They are very
:53:26. > :53:30.valuable ways of funding literature. The Dylan Thomas Prize, for example,
:53:31. > :53:35.helps young artists who are trying to find their feet and get into the
:53:35. > :53:41.literary world. That is a very valuable way. It has helped a
:53:41. > :53:46.number of young artists establish themselves as literary figures. It
:53:46. > :53:50.is not just about preserving what has gone in the past but about
:53:50. > :54:00.supporting new writers and New Poets and new artists and helping
:54:00. > :54:01.
:54:01. > :54:04.them establish themselves. Bat will be a good use of money. -- of that.
:54:04. > :54:09.Man, said it is not an argument between books and hospitals. I
:54:09. > :54:17.don't think that was the point that was being made. Julian just thinks
:54:17. > :54:23.people should not get any grants. will actually support funding. We
:54:23. > :54:28.have issues quite clearly with raising literacy in schools but we
:54:28. > :54:35.have seen a revival in the reading of books and JK rolling probably
:54:35. > :54:39.helped to bring that to the fore. I think it is always easy to make an
:54:39. > :54:44.argument that we can use the money better somewhere else but we just
:54:44. > :54:50.started at the head of the programme talking about the economy
:54:50. > :54:56.and ways to raise the GDP. That happens in Wales in a large wave by
:54:56. > :55:01.it the sector that is the arts. Part of that sector his books. I
:55:01. > :55:06.have no argument at all with this continuing. In terms of Peter's
:55:06. > :55:14.argument, there is a wider debate to be had. Personally, I'd like a
:55:14. > :55:20.book in my hands. And like Peter I put it in a bookcase, never to be
:55:20. > :55:24.left again. I don't accept the argument that we should not fund it.
:55:24. > :55:29.I think that if we close down Wales in terms of the arts, that would be
:55:29. > :55:33.a huge mistake. Let us broaden it out. We heard from the Chancellor
:55:33. > :55:37.earlier that the deficit is taking longer to pay down. Does that mean
:55:37. > :55:42.there is going to be pressure on budgets? After the arts are seen as
:55:42. > :55:48.the first and easiest place to make cuts. -- often. Should there be
:55:48. > :55:52.concern in the arts world that the axe will fall? There is pressure
:55:52. > :55:56.already. The Library of Wales are under pressure in terms of how they
:55:56. > :56:00.use the Budget. They do important working digitising the archive and
:56:00. > :56:03.making it available online. They are also being asked to continue
:56:03. > :56:10.the way other work they are doing in terms of preserving many of the
:56:10. > :56:13.artifacts they have. I think we have to find a balance. Arts is
:56:13. > :56:18.always one of the first to be cut and we have to have aligned which
:56:19. > :56:22.we cannot go below because as Joyce says, the arts are really important
:56:22. > :56:27.- not just in terms of developing jobs and employment opportunities
:56:27. > :56:32.but in terms of widening people's horizons. Reading a good book helps
:56:33. > :56:36.people with their literacy but also helps them in terms of how they can
:56:36. > :56:40.speak and their literacy and getting jobs as part of that. The
:56:40. > :56:45.more people read, the more literate they are, the more people want to
:56:45. > :56:55.employ them. We will have a quick look back at some of the political
:56:55. > :56:56.
:56:56. > :56:59.stories of the week now. They UKIP MEP John often sought
:56:59. > :57:04.assurances that no Welsh council had denied all removed children
:57:04. > :57:08.from foster care on the basis of political allegiance. An English
:57:08. > :57:12.council was widely criticised after taking away children from two year
:57:12. > :57:17.Kip members saying it had concerns about the party's immigration
:57:17. > :57:23.policy. An episode of this soap-opera was
:57:23. > :57:27.broadcast on S4C for the second time despite calls for it to be
:57:27. > :57:31.scrapped. There were criticisms about the programme's stance on
:57:31. > :57:40.badger culling. The conservative assembly leader
:57:40. > :57:43.Andrew RTE Davies brought about the Leveson Inquiry. -- talked about.
:57:43. > :57:47.He hoped assembly leaders could send a letter of shared views to
:57:47. > :57:50.the Prime Minister. A Welsh Secretary David Jones rejected a
:57:50. > :57:54.call to merge his department with the Northern Ireland and Scotland
:57:54. > :58:03.offices, telling MPs that Wales benefited greatly from the current
:58:03. > :58:07.arrangement. A final word from our guest. There
:58:07. > :58:17.were chuckles in the studio when we saw the news about Andrew Davies
:58:17. > :58:22.and wanting to South send shared fears about Leveson. They might
:58:22. > :58:26.come to a shared view somehow. The government in Westminster is
:58:27. > :58:31.struggling to come to a shared view and for the first time, I think,
:58:31. > :58:37.since the 1930s, we have seen two opinions made by two people in
:58:37. > :58:45.coalition. Why it relaxed about it, apparently. Apparently but I AM not
:58:45. > :58:50.relaxed about Leveson. I think that 16 months of inquiry commissioned
:58:50. > :58:57.by the Prime Minister who immediately comes out and says, "I
:58:57. > :59:03.AM not going to support it", even though the whole idea of putting it
:59:03. > :59:12.out for scrutiny was that he would support it. I feel for people who
:59:12. > :59:22.have gone through exposing their souls reading very bad experiences,
:59:22. > :59:26.for what? And that has to be the I am quite relaxed about the
:59:26. > :59:28.disagreement because I think Nick Clegg was on the right side of the
:59:28. > :59:33.argument. Abuses have happened in the press and something needs to be
:59:33. > :59:38.done to put that right. If you do not have the statute jury at --
:59:38. > :59:44.statutory underpinning of the new regime, newspapers will do it again.
:59:44. > :59:49.That, in a sense, links in with the story about the badgers and S4C
:59:49. > :59:52.because on the same day Leveson was being reported, we had government