:01:15. > :01:17.Later in the programme, with hundreds of thousands of people at
:01:17. > :01:27.increased risk of developing diabetes, we hear that turning the
:01:27. > :01:27.
:01:27. > :39:53.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2305 seconds
:39:53. > :39:57.tide against the disease is a major How law and on at the Sunday
:39:57. > :40:01.Politics Wales, we hear concerns about the growing problem of
:40:01. > :40:05.diabetes. And as the Welsh Minister -- as the Welsh Business Minister
:40:05. > :40:09.sets up a review into whether banks are making it easier for companies
:40:09. > :40:12.to borrow money, we will hear a Welsh Conservative plan. Joining me
:40:12. > :40:15.throughout today's programme are the Liberal Democrat, Lord German,
:40:15. > :40:19.and Labour's Kevin Brennan. Good morning to you both. I wonder when
:40:19. > :40:24.the weather will improve. We read this morning that relations between
:40:24. > :40:31.both of your party leaders in Westminster are improving. Ed
:40:31. > :40:36.Miliband and Nick Clegg appear to be getting on better. Kevin Brennan,
:40:36. > :40:40.what are the implications of this improvement? I suspect it might be
:40:40. > :40:44.slightly exaggerated. I have read the article in The Observor. There
:40:44. > :40:48.is a lot going on in Parliament that means that Labour and the Lib
:40:48. > :40:54.Dems are working together, including the boundary changes.
:40:54. > :41:00.Wales was going to lose 25% of its Parliamentary seats, which you
:41:00. > :41:09.supported us one. It means that Wales could retain 40% if the war
:41:09. > :41:14.Connett this week. That has meant that we can work together more. --
:41:14. > :41:21.could retain 40% working on business week. I am sure there will
:41:21. > :41:25.be plenty of real politics between the two parties. Were you aware
:41:25. > :41:35.that relations were frosty in the first place? He yes, a lot of anger
:41:35. > :41:35.
:41:36. > :41:40.and rage. It was like going into an areas box. -- ice Boks. You see a
:41:40. > :41:45.lot of hatred coming through. It has not been like that in Wales.
:41:45. > :41:49.What we have had to learn to do is get used to each other more. It is
:41:49. > :41:53.the product of the boundary review and the change and people
:41:53. > :41:57.recognising that the next General Election might not be a foregone
:41:57. > :42:02.conclusion. There is also the sense that being less tribal is so
:42:02. > :42:06.important in politics. The people out there do not like it much. If
:42:06. > :42:09.we are constantly angry at each other, it does not give you the
:42:09. > :42:14.clue to the questions be but are asking and the answers they are
:42:14. > :42:17.looking for. Is there a sense perhaps that there is pragmatism
:42:17. > :42:23.here that may be Labour feel, if governing the next time, the Lib
:42:23. > :42:27.Dems might be needed to help them out? Labour would hope to win an
:42:27. > :42:32.overall majority. If the people decide something different, you
:42:32. > :42:35.have to look at that situation. It is difficult, as he said, the Lib
:42:35. > :42:40.Dems having gone in with the Conservatives. Traditionally, they
:42:40. > :42:44.are seen as the arch-enemy. That caused some resentment. Nick Clegg
:42:44. > :42:50.saying he would not work with Gordon Brown caused resentment.
:42:50. > :42:53.Some people saying we should say the same to the Lib Dems. There is
:42:53. > :42:57.that residual feeling. But at the end of the day, we will look to win
:42:57. > :43:01.an overall majority and hope to convince people a Labour Government
:43:01. > :43:05.is the best solution. We shall leave it there for now. Are banks
:43:05. > :43:09.lending enough to businesses? The Business Minister, Edwina Hart,
:43:10. > :43:14.thinks perhaps not and has launched an independent review to establish
:43:14. > :43:17.whether firms in Wales are getting the support needed. In terms of
:43:17. > :43:22.what the banks are doing, reporting locally with good work done with
:43:22. > :43:26.businesses, but when I go out and about, that is not what is said.
:43:26. > :43:30.People say there is still difficulty getting money. They are
:43:30. > :43:35.happy we are running various schemes for cash. The reality is it
:43:35. > :43:42.is quite hard for businesses, not getting the money required. And the
:43:42. > :43:45.banks simply a refinancing -- refinancing existing lending.
:43:45. > :43:49.Welsh Conservatives have also been looking at business lending and
:43:49. > :43:53.will launch their proposals tomorrow. To give a flavour ahead
:43:53. > :43:58.of them is the party's leader in the Assembly, Andrew RT Davies, in
:43:58. > :44:04.Cardiff. Thank you for joining us. Good morning. We heard there from
:44:04. > :44:09.Edwina Hart, launching a review. Plaid Cymru have called for a
:44:09. > :44:14.national as Bank of Wales. -- nationalised Bank of Wales. What
:44:14. > :44:19.would you party offer? I have heard about the review and about Plaid
:44:19. > :44:24.Cymru's proposals. We are launching a document tomorrow. The issue is
:44:24. > :44:27.about local lending to local businesses. There is a real issue.
:44:28. > :44:33.All sorts of organisations have identified the decision-making
:44:33. > :44:38.process and the ability for businesses to access local invites
:44:38. > :44:42.-- advised. We have pulled various strands together. A major political
:44:42. > :44:46.party will bring a document out tomorrow that addresses this in a
:44:46. > :44:53.fully costed way. I know you are party have been working on this for
:44:53. > :44:59.months. It is a big piece of work. The Government recognises what you
:44:59. > :45:03.are raising as well, launching a review last week. The Professor
:45:03. > :45:08.leading that cheers you party's economic Commission. What about the
:45:08. > :45:13.fact he is doing work for the Government on the same thing?
:45:13. > :45:16.commend their work. But that is a review. What we are proposing
:45:16. > :45:21.tomorrow is a ready-made model that has done the groundwork, can be
:45:21. > :45:25.delivered, by delivering a local lending structure, making Wales
:45:25. > :45:31.into six different regions, so there are local managers working
:45:31. > :45:35.with the commercial sector, not replacing it, in partnership so
:45:35. > :45:40.that decision-making can be taken locally. What we have the ability
:45:40. > :45:46.is 93% of lending is in the hands of five big banks. It is 13% in
:45:46. > :45:48.Germany. We have to increase the flow of money into small businesses
:45:49. > :45:53.and the decision-making and advice that can be given in local
:45:53. > :45:57.communities. That is what is missing. Many decisions are taken
:45:57. > :46:02.at either regional levels, such as in Birmingham and Manchester, or a
:46:02. > :46:07.national level in London or Edinburgh. Are you talking about
:46:07. > :46:11.Welsh Government banks, shops on the high street? No, it is about
:46:11. > :46:16.working in partnership with the commercial sector. Walking in the
:46:16. > :46:20.backs with them? We launched the policy tomorrow and the detail will
:46:20. > :46:25.be there. -- walking in the banks with them? I have to be careful
:46:25. > :46:31.about how much the Tuilagi have narrowed. It is not about replacing
:46:32. > :46:39.the commercial sector, but working in partnership. -- I have to be
:46:39. > :46:43.careful about how much detail I give up now. Explain what Finance
:46:43. > :46:49.Bills is? It is the Welsh Government's finance vehicle, set
:46:49. > :46:56.up in 2000, to lend to businesses in Wales that would have normal
:46:56. > :47:00.credit Brits turn down. Many businesses have not heard of it. We
:47:00. > :47:04.need to localised lending and the support that bank managers can give.
:47:04. > :47:08.We want to work in partnership with the commercial sector, not in
:47:08. > :47:12.competition, and this will show that with case studies and the way
:47:12. > :47:15.we believe this model can be taken forward. It is the first time a
:47:15. > :47:20.major party in the United Kingdom has come forward with such a
:47:20. > :47:25.document. You say you would work with the commercial sector. The
:47:25. > :47:29.senses the commercial sector are not lending to businesses, so that
:47:29. > :47:33.is not working, but if the Welsh Government are in the banks with
:47:33. > :47:37.them, they are still not going to lend because you will. It is about
:47:37. > :47:41.element of risk. Businesses out there may be do not have an
:47:41. > :47:45.established track record on a business model that does not fall
:47:45. > :47:49.into the lending decisions that the commercial sector have decided to
:47:49. > :47:54.go with. If you look at Germany or Sweden, where the banking structure
:47:54. > :47:59.is very different, 13% of major decisions are only taking by high-
:47:59. > :48:03.street banks and a lot of decisions taken by local regional banking. In
:48:03. > :48:07.North America, you have a strong support network for working up a
:48:07. > :48:14.business proposal. And taking a chance on an entrepreneur's
:48:14. > :48:17.decision ought idea, so we can create more business opportunities.
:48:17. > :48:22.Everyone recognises that the private sector in Wales is not big
:48:22. > :48:26.enough and finance is a key component about allowing it to grow.
:48:26. > :48:31.That can complement the economy. Andrew RT Davies, thank you for
:48:31. > :48:34.your time and beat expect more detail on that pro -- on that
:48:34. > :48:40.promotes all -- we expect more detail on that proposal tomorrow.
:48:40. > :48:44.Working closely with the banks there. Is that a good idea? I never
:48:45. > :48:53.forgot that after the 12 years of 13 years of the National Assembly
:48:53. > :48:58.that I would say good ideas are coming back again. We set up in
:48:58. > :49:03.2000 Finance Bills to do precisely that job of being able to lend to
:49:03. > :49:08.businesses around Wales. I introduced the scheme at the time.
:49:08. > :49:16.It is a great idea. There is or was a chance to revitalise it. It is
:49:16. > :49:20.what is needed. To get the money flowing to company. -- two
:49:20. > :49:26.companies. It needs a stick of dynamite, behind the whole notion
:49:26. > :49:33.to get it working. And this not just a Welsh issue. Vince Cable
:49:33. > :49:37.announced a similar review to that which Edwina Hart has called for.
:49:37. > :49:45.It is not a Welsh problem. It suggests that it is quite tricky.
:49:45. > :49:50.It is very tricky. We are talking about a banking sector here which
:49:50. > :49:54.basically be scaled after the deregulation of the 1980s. -- which
:49:54. > :49:58.basically a reduced skills. Anyone talented, anyone wanting to do well
:49:58. > :50:02.in the banking sector, understandably went down the
:50:02. > :50:07.investment banking route, where the fast but was there to be made. And
:50:07. > :50:11.we are paying the price for that. - - where the fast money was there to
:50:11. > :50:15.be made. People used to know how to lend to small and medium-sized
:50:15. > :50:19.businesses. Now you get small businesses going to the banks, were
:50:19. > :50:25.they are considered for loans, and making it harder for those
:50:25. > :50:29.businesses to borrow. It is right on at the heart -- or Edwina Hart
:50:29. > :50:35.to do this. She is right to have a former Conservative candidate as
:50:35. > :50:39.well. It is a bit odd that Andrew Davis is waving his little blue
:50:39. > :50:43.book to us when his colleague is doing the review for the Government.
:50:43. > :50:48.Hopefully we can get the best ideas together to try and at least
:50:48. > :50:53.cracked some of the problem here in Wales. It is a big structural
:50:53. > :50:57.problem in the banking sector. Consensus politics was the way the
:50:57. > :51:02.Assembly was described in 1999 and it seems Plaid Cymru are putting
:51:02. > :51:07.forward a similar idea. You touched on what Edwina Hart is doing. And
:51:08. > :51:12.now the Conservatives. Everyone agrees this is a problem? I suspect
:51:12. > :51:17.the Government will want to look at all ideas coming forward as part of
:51:17. > :51:21.this review in order to strengthen as much as possible within Wales
:51:21. > :51:28.what can be done to strengthen lending to small and medium-sized
:51:28. > :51:34.businesses. You touch earlier on the launch of finance Wales, the
:51:34. > :51:40.exact kind of thing. It was a grand we got by using some of the
:51:40. > :51:47.European money better. But it did not work? It did work. It works for
:51:47. > :51:53.a while, because it was abolished, that scheme was abolished after
:51:53. > :51:57.2003. There is every need to go back to those fundamentals. Make
:51:57. > :52:01.finance Wales were properly on behalf of the people for the
:52:01. > :52:06.businesses of Wales. -- work properly. People need loans as well
:52:06. > :52:12.as grants. There is a whole mechanism which has to be opened up.
:52:12. > :52:18.The balance of risk that can be shared between the banks and the
:52:18. > :52:23.company's can help to give that bit of impetus to lending in Wales. We
:52:23. > :52:27.have the advantage of European money, which is what finance Wales
:52:27. > :52:30.should roll in as well. All of that together should give Wales and
:52:30. > :52:33.economic advantage in lending in the way that other parts of the UK
:52:33. > :52:38.cannot have. We shall leave it there.
:52:38. > :52:42.A leading charity is warning the Welsh NHS could be overwhelmed by a
:52:42. > :52:46.disease which deprives people of their eyesight, causes strokes,
:52:46. > :52:51.kidney failure and premature death. Diabetes UK Cymru has told this
:52:51. > :52:56.programme that, with hundreds of thousands of people have won high
:52:56. > :53:00.blood cloakrooms levels -- having high blood glucose levels, and a
:53:00. > :53:03.much increased risk of developing the disorder, turning the tide is a
:53:03. > :53:07.major test for devolution. Being overweight and a lack of exercise
:53:07. > :53:11.is the usual cause. In the past week, we have had the
:53:11. > :53:16.first clips of how the health board's plan to reshape health
:53:16. > :53:21.services. They have to shore often angry communities they are doing
:53:21. > :53:27.the right thing. But there is a disease threatening to spiral out
:53:28. > :53:37.of control. Diabetes. Eirian Jones from Carmarthen show was diagnosed
:53:37. > :53:41.with Type 2 diabetes two years ago after a routine blood test. I have
:53:41. > :53:46.been quite fortunate that I was diagnosed early on. But if you
:53:46. > :53:50.imagine somebody walking around, maybe for ten years, having the
:53:50. > :53:56.disease and not knowing. By the time it is discovered, the damage
:53:56. > :54:02.is done. In just the past two years, the number of people such as Eirian
:54:02. > :54:07.being diagnosed with diabetes in Wales has risen by 9.4% to 167,000.
:54:07. > :54:12.It is estimated that figure will rise between now and 2025 to more
:54:12. > :54:18.than a quarter of a million and research and analysis by Diabetes
:54:18. > :54:28.UK Cymru estimates that there are 66,000 of us who have diabetes but
:54:28. > :54:29.
:54:29. > :54:34.do not know it. We have 350,000 people with what is called diabetes
:54:34. > :54:39.-- what is called the diabetes. It is costing the NHS half-a- billion
:54:39. > :54:44.pounds a year. We should be very worried. Dai Williams from Diabetes
:54:44. > :54:49.UK Cymru says turning around the diabetes epidemic is a key test for
:54:49. > :54:54.devolution. Politicians are there to represent the population and
:54:54. > :54:58.their well-being. Diabetes is threatening that well-being. They
:54:58. > :55:02.have a plan to deal with it. It is for the Executive to implement that
:55:02. > :55:07.plan. It is a big problem for Government to implement these
:55:07. > :55:10.plants. It is not enough to have one and put it on the shelf. It has
:55:11. > :55:15.to be implemented. There are also concerns about the lack of medical
:55:15. > :55:23.staff to treat and crucially educate patients about diabetes.
:55:23. > :55:26.do feel that there is insufficient resources put into the role of
:55:26. > :55:30.specialist practitioners. Clinicians across the board. But I
:55:30. > :55:37.would say about nursing staff. There are insufficient specialist
:55:37. > :55:41.nurses in Wales trained in the care of diabetes to deal with this, with
:55:41. > :55:46.the numbers of population suffering. The Assembly's Health Committee is
:55:46. > :55:49.holding an inquiry into diabetes services as ministers consult on a
:55:49. > :55:53.new action plan. The Welsh Government told Sunday Politics it
:55:53. > :55:58.aims to have diabetes incident rates and health care outcomes
:55:58. > :56:03.comparable to the best in Europe. It expects the action plan to be in
:56:03. > :56:08.place by June. Sustained efforts to spot and treat diabetes better
:56:08. > :56:12.might be much lower profile than the big structural changes taking
:56:12. > :56:16.place in NHS Wales. But campaigners and medics warned that, without
:56:16. > :56:21.major improvements, the condition poses a very real threat to the
:56:21. > :56:25.future of the service and hundreds of thousands of lives.
:56:25. > :56:30.Kevin Brennan, a few issues here, the obvious health concern that
:56:30. > :56:35.possibly, in just over ten years, one in the 12 of us would have
:56:35. > :56:40.diabetes. But also the figure that it costs �0.5 billion a year to
:56:40. > :56:46.treat diabetes related incidents at a time when the NHS is struggling
:56:46. > :56:53.to keep up with what it has to pay for now. Indeed. In the case of
:56:53. > :56:58.Type 2 diabetes, it has been on the rise and is related to modern
:56:58. > :57:02.lifestyles and being sedentary. As we are now. And obesity and so on.
:57:02. > :57:08.It is something that needs to be dealt with in a public health side
:57:08. > :57:12.as well as treatment. Wales is well placed. I am glad that the Health
:57:12. > :57:17.Committee is leading an inquiry into it from the Health Committee
:57:17. > :57:22.in the Assembly. My colleague next met has been working on this in the
:57:23. > :57:26.House of Commons. -- my colleague has been working on this. It is
:57:26. > :57:32.looking at issues of obesity and looking at community-based services
:57:32. > :57:37.to help people with diabetes. The consequences can be horrendous,
:57:37. > :57:41.including blindness, amputations. And with good proper humanity based
:57:41. > :57:46.care, you can alleviate a lot of problems and save money you would
:57:46. > :57:51.otherwise have to spend. Kevin mentioned about how we treat people
:57:51. > :57:54.who have this, or the ways of doing it. There was quite a stark warning
:57:54. > :57:58.from the Royal College of Nursing that there are not enough nurses
:57:58. > :58:02.would specialism to work in this field. There is extra money
:58:02. > :58:07.announced or training in the past week, not specifically for diabetes,
:58:07. > :58:12.but that is very concerning? think it is of great concern. In
:58:12. > :58:16.2002, there was a national service framework in place for diabetes in
:58:16. > :58:21.Wales. The problem is getting worse. We know that more and more people
:58:21. > :58:24.are getting up because of the modern lifestyle. But also Type 1
:58:24. > :58:29.Diabetes is increasing, which is about a lack of insulin in your
:58:29. > :58:34.body. There is the need for someone to get a grip on the whole thing.
:58:34. > :58:38.The original document... Who is that person? Somebody who can bring
:58:38. > :58:44.together community needs to get community medicine up and running
:58:44. > :58:48.with it. To be able to spot it and er identify it and getting early.
:58:48. > :58:55.Belly knowledge about the problem will certainly help. -- Early
:58:55. > :59:00.knowledge. It is best to treated at the very earlier stages. It is a
:59:00. > :59:03.multi-faceted problem and we need to get a grip on it in a way that
:59:04. > :59:08.meets some central co-ordination. So that it can be brought out to
:59:08. > :59:13.everyone. This is a problem which will affect many of us. We shall
:59:13. > :59:21.leave it there for now. We now have time for a quick look back at some
:59:21. > :59:26.of the political stories of the week in 60 seconds.
:59:26. > :59:29.The Welsh Government will fund a shortfall in the budget for council
:59:29. > :59:35.tax benefits, having previously said no funds were available.
:59:35. > :59:42.Thousands of households now will not lose out financially. On the
:59:42. > :59:46.150th anniversary of Lloyd George's death, it is said the basic rate of
:59:46. > :59:51.income tax should be reduced if Wales has tax-paying powers. After
:59:51. > :59:56.40 years in politics, Jonathan Evans said he will not stand for
:59:56. > :00:01.election in 2015. Plans for big changes to the NHS across Wales
:00:01. > :00:05.dominated party leader exchanges at First Minister's Questions. It
:00:05. > :00:11.digital services in North East Wales were described as shambolic,
:00:11. > :00:15.because many viewers still need a set-top box to watch BBC One Wales.
:00:15. > :00:20.And the Swansea MP invited a concert in the city next year to
:00:20. > :00:27.mark the centenary of Dylan Thomas's birth. He is hoping their
:00:27. > :00:32.invitation will not go blowing in the wind.
:00:32. > :00:42.Let us start with Bob Dylan. You have been to see him twice, would
:00:42. > :00:47.you see him again? I wish him in his luck to get him there.
:00:47. > :00:53.Apparently, he got the inspiration for Dylan Thomas to take on his new
:00:53. > :01:00.name. I was going to touch and the fact we have two musicians. You
:01:00. > :01:05.play the piano, would you consider joining on one night only? I think
:01:05. > :01:08.my style of music is slightly different. We have a composer in
:01:08. > :01:14.residence in Parliament and perhaps we could bring together some music
:01:14. > :01:18.that brings together the different styles. Two more serious political
:01:18. > :01:22.issues. Some people describing it as a U-turn for the Government,
:01:22. > :01:26.saying they had found the money to cover a black hole to pay council
:01:26. > :01:31.tax benefits to people. Almost a quarter of a million would not have
:01:31. > :01:36.to pay it next year. What you think about that? It has been a shambolic
:01:36. > :01:43.process to get towards what is a sensible solution. I applaud the
:01:43. > :01:49.solution, but parents of many children have been receiving
:01:49. > :01:53.letters saying they would have to pay more money. And it could be
:01:53. > :01:56.this amount of money and now they will not have to do it. It is the
:01:56. > :02:01.right solution, but has been a night near the way the Welsh
:02:01. > :02:05.Government has approached it. you had had people coming to
:02:05. > :02:09.surgeries worried they would have to pay it, only to find out they do
:02:09. > :02:11.not? I should point out the reason of this Government is in this
:02:11. > :02:14.position is your colleagues in Parliament voted through this
:02:14. > :02:18.change. That leaves the Welsh Government having to make an almost
:02:18. > :02:22.impossible choice about how to cover its budget with the changes
:02:22. > :02:28.the Government have made and when spinster in relation to council-tax
:02:28. > :02:32.benefit. -- made in Westminster. I am glad the Government has looked
:02:32. > :02:36.at the terrible social impact that is coming her mac Wake and is