:01:20. > :01:23.And the presiding officer Rosemary Butler tells us that the make-up of
:01:23. > :01:33.the National Assembly must reflect the population in order for the
:01:33. > :01:33.
:01:33. > :39:47.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2293 seconds
:39:47. > :39:52.The National Assembly's Presiding Officer wants more women to be
:39:52. > :39:58.elected to public offices. And plans to shake-up the authority
:39:58. > :40:05.that looks after historic sites in Wales.
:40:05. > :40:09.Good afternoon tea both. Gill, you spent the week in Brussels. David
:40:09. > :40:16.Cameron finally made his speech on the European question. What have
:40:16. > :40:23.you heard from your fellow MEPs? Well, a mixture. Exasperation.
:40:23. > :40:28.Indifference from some quarters, bemusement. Of course there is
:40:28. > :40:33.going to be a debate on the future of the European Union and what
:40:33. > :40:37.treaty changes are needed in the next few years. But really what
:40:37. > :40:42.David Cameron is proposing is highly unlikely to happen. But I
:40:42. > :40:51.think in Wales it is exasperating because he is looking very much at
:40:51. > :41:00.the UK within Europe. But if we are really to build any you Mac that is
:41:00. > :41:10.responsive -- to build and it EU them what we need to have is a
:41:10. > :41:11.
:41:11. > :41:15.debate in Wales as well. They need to talk about which of those powers
:41:15. > :41:19.should come to the National Assembly if that was to happen. So
:41:19. > :41:26.certainly we need a debate, but in terms of other countries in Europe,
:41:26. > :41:33.they are quite bewildered and bemused. David Cameron is just
:41:33. > :41:40.reflecting public opinion, isn't he? There's been a bounced towards
:41:40. > :41:45.the Conservatives following his speech. I'm sure there will be some
:41:45. > :41:52.short-term popularity and it sounds attractive. But it is highly
:41:52. > :42:00.irresponsible. Once people start thinking about the consequences to
:42:00. > :42:06.the economy. It is irresponsible of the Prime Minister to be put in the
:42:06. > :42:09.interest of his political party, to use Europe as a smokescreen for
:42:09. > :42:14.divisions in the Conservative Party. I think in the long-term he will
:42:14. > :42:21.rue the day that he is adopted this position. There is no guarantee
:42:21. > :42:27.that he would vote to leave Europe. No, but it is the uncertainty and
:42:27. > :42:32.lack of clarity on what Britain's position actually is. With regard
:42:32. > :42:36.to the UK, where does Wales feature? And Scotland? It seems
:42:36. > :42:46.Cameron is prepared to almost sacrifice the Hedger many of the UK
:42:46. > :42:47.
:42:47. > :42:52.for the sake of very narrow personal interest. -- the hegemony.
:42:52. > :43:00.There is overwhelming opposition to plans to investigate the body that
:43:00. > :43:05.looks after historical sites. An inquiry by an Assembly committee
:43:05. > :43:10.found widespread unease about the idea of a merger among its
:43:10. > :43:16.academics and heritage groups. The Welsh government has a history
:43:16. > :43:22.of reorganising public institutions. The Welsh Development Agency, the
:43:22. > :43:26.NHS. Now, it has another in its sights - the authority that
:43:26. > :43:30.investigates historic buildings and archaeology. The Royal Commission
:43:30. > :43:33.on the Ancient and historical Monuments of Wales. It was founded
:43:33. > :43:39.in 19 awake, but like the rest of the public Brown, it has entered
:43:39. > :43:42.the age of austerity. It receives �2 million a year from the Welsh
:43:42. > :43:47.government. A Heritage Minister says he is worried about resilience
:43:47. > :43:54.in the face of public spending cuts. He wants to bring the commission in
:43:54. > :43:59.house and merge it with the Welsh government's conservation service.
:43:59. > :44:05.That service looks after historic sites like here so there we can all
:44:05. > :44:08.come and enjoy them. The Royal Commission investigates the site so
:44:08. > :44:13.there we can understand the place in history. Why not build a bridge
:44:13. > :44:17.between them and bring the two together? If it offends their work
:44:17. > :44:22.from cutbacks, what is the harm in merging both organisations? But
:44:22. > :44:27.there is strong opposition to a merger. Historian Professor Ralph
:44:27. > :44:34.Griffiths is a former chairman of the commission. The proposal is to
:44:35. > :44:39.take it into the government itself, which is becoming a trend nowadays.
:44:39. > :44:44.Then it would lose its arm's-length quality and the confidence people
:44:44. > :44:48.feel in it. After hearing from the professor and 82 other witnesses,
:44:48. > :44:52.the assembly's Communities Committee told Mr Lewis there was
:44:52. > :45:00.overwhelming opposition to a merger, particularly if it happens within
:45:00. > :45:04.the government itself. It seems all the advice weaves -- we have
:45:04. > :45:08.received as a committee is saying, you should merge these bodies
:45:08. > :45:13.outside of government. I'm concerned that this is an
:45:13. > :45:17.ideological decision, they are centralising everything, they are
:45:17. > :45:22.control freaks. Everything has to be under the direct control of the
:45:22. > :45:27.minister, a rather than doing the sensible thing and enabling those
:45:27. > :45:32.two bodies to thrive and attract that additional money. Mr Lewis has
:45:32. > :45:38.asked to see a business case on a merger by March. A White Paper on
:45:38. > :45:46.the Heritage Bill will follow. Needs must. We're in a situation
:45:46. > :45:52.where everybody needs to look deeply at issues. We've considered
:45:52. > :45:58.this very carefully. Everyone involved that is close to it
:45:58. > :46:03.recognises that status quo is not an option at the moment. If we are
:46:03. > :46:08.to have a resilient historic sector, we need change. The is merger isn't
:46:08. > :46:15.a new idea, but when it was put to Mr Lewis's predecessor, you says he
:46:15. > :46:20.wasn't convinced. I think the minister is probably under some
:46:20. > :46:26.pressure from his own department, and I think there's a feeling it is
:46:26. > :46:29.nonsense to have two bodies operating vaguely in the same area.
:46:29. > :46:34.There are unforeseen consequences often when you change the pattern
:46:34. > :46:39.of institutions like this, and you have to be careful that what
:46:39. > :46:41.emerges is better than what you have that the moment. The Royal
:46:41. > :46:46.Commission on the ancient and historic monuments of Wales told
:46:46. > :46:53.Sunday politics it wants to see a robust and transparent examination
:46:53. > :46:56.of the options available. Its own evidence talks of asset-stripping.
:46:56. > :47:04.After more than 100 years of independence, how much longer can
:47:04. > :47:09.it hold out? Some insight there into why he was
:47:09. > :47:18.going ahead with this. Needs must, he said. Is this been done to save
:47:18. > :47:24.money? Obviously, these are two bodies that are working in the same
:47:24. > :47:29.area. So I can understand these concerns. The Royal Commission has
:47:29. > :47:33.a particularly good reputation so any change is of concern. I think
:47:33. > :47:37.they hit the nail on the head when they said that there may be just a
:47:37. > :47:40.vacation before it, but what comes out of it has to be better than
:47:40. > :47:46.what you've got. I think that is a challenge and that is why the
:47:46. > :47:50.scrutiny has focused so much on this. Bearing in mind the evidence
:47:50. > :47:55.given to the committee, overwhelming opposition, what does
:47:55. > :48:01.that say to you or anyone else but the government is planning to go
:48:01. > :48:05.ahead despite the overwhelming opposition? I think the question is
:48:05. > :48:09.the way in which the government raises -- answers the points raised
:48:09. > :48:13.by the committee. We had a similar process in respect to the
:48:13. > :48:18.environmental bodies as well, where the scrutiny has said, we
:48:18. > :48:21.understand what it is you're trying to achieve, but you show to a us
:48:21. > :48:24.that what you are proposing will work and what guarantees are you
:48:24. > :48:29.giving? That is the role of scrutiny and that will be the test
:48:29. > :48:35.as to whether the government's proposal is going to go ahead and
:48:35. > :48:41.be effective. If this does go ahead, Ralph Griffiths was saying there
:48:41. > :48:46.that the government would lose the confidence of the experts. That
:48:46. > :48:49.would be quite a high price to pay. Certainly, and the independence of
:48:49. > :48:54.the Royal Commission is crucial. As he said, there has been
:48:54. > :48:59.overwhelming evidence given against the merger and against it being
:48:59. > :49:03.taken in by the government. I think there's a wider picture as well, if
:49:03. > :49:09.you look at it in terms of the economy. It is being driven by the
:49:09. > :49:12.need to make cuts, but that is a false argument, because tourism and
:49:12. > :49:17.heritage and cultural tourism in Wales is something we haven't even
:49:17. > :49:22.begun to exploit fully. There is huge potential to develop that. I
:49:22. > :49:25.hosted a seminar in the European Parliament last week looking at
:49:25. > :49:29.sustainable tourism where different countries came together to look at
:49:29. > :49:34.the potential for expanding at, which of course creates jobs and
:49:34. > :49:38.helps the economy. So I think that looking are bodies like is to try
:49:38. > :49:43.to make cuts is a false measure. I think it is counter-productive.
:49:43. > :49:51.What we should be doing is really investing in this and looking
:49:51. > :49:55.seriously at tourism in Wales. Lewis made it clear why these
:49:55. > :49:59.changes are likely to happen. We going to see this in other
:49:59. > :50:03.departments, aren't we? In a bid to save money and slim down the budget,
:50:03. > :50:08.more things are going to be pushed together. This will be a recurring
:50:08. > :50:14.argument. There's no doubt there is a tremendous financial squeeze on
:50:14. > :50:19.public services and particularly on things like museums. Particularly
:50:19. > :50:25.where we have opened access to them and make them free. I adopt the
:50:25. > :50:29.position that we don't want change. I can understand why there is
:50:29. > :50:33.caution and concern about change. But it boils down to the scrutiny -
:50:33. > :50:36.what are you trying to achieve? Will you be able to at least
:50:36. > :50:44.maintain what you're doing or improve it with the resources you
:50:44. > :50:49.have got? That is a challenge and the jury is still out on that.
:50:49. > :50:52.Now, the Assembly's Presiding Officer has run privately to all
:50:52. > :50:57.leaders of the four political parties urging them to take action
:50:57. > :51:06.to ensure top more women are elected to public offices. In 2006,
:51:06. > :51:10.more than half of a AMs will women but not any more. I spoke to
:51:10. > :51:15.Rosemary and asked her if this reduction would continue into the
:51:15. > :51:22.next election. Well, as you know, we've had enormous success with
:51:22. > :51:27.elected women. Over 50% a couple of years ago. Down to 44%, so slipping
:51:27. > :51:31.slightly, and the more I went about as a Presiding Officer, I could see
:51:31. > :51:36.there were very few Women in local government, magistrates, governors,
:51:36. > :51:41.the local health boards. And when you think that women are over 50%
:51:42. > :51:45.of the population, that is a huge resource to be wasted. If we are to
:51:45. > :51:51.be effective as an Assembly, we need to it reflect the make-up of
:51:51. > :52:01.the population. You've asked parties to consider what they could
:52:01. > :52:04.
:52:04. > :52:12.do to get more men -- more women elected. Does political pragmatism
:52:12. > :52:17.takeover of? If I had the answer, I wouldn't be sitting year -- sitting
:52:17. > :52:21.here. I've asked the party leaders to least look at how they would do
:52:21. > :52:25.it. I wouldn't prescribe a particular way of doing it. But
:52:25. > :52:30.there must be a way to make more people come for it for elections.
:52:30. > :52:36.And it's not just about the Assembly. It is across Wales.
:52:36. > :52:43.why is it important them more women are elected, whether it is councils,
:52:43. > :52:47.the Assembly or Parliament? Well, they make up 50% of the population.
:52:47. > :52:51.I'm not saying were better than men, were different. Working together,
:52:51. > :52:56.you get better policies. Research has been done at across the world
:52:56. > :53:04.to show that when you get mixed genders on legislation you get
:53:04. > :53:08.better policies. There were lots of women elected to the Assembly in
:53:08. > :53:14.1999 who may be considering if they will stand again in next election
:53:14. > :53:17.in 2016. Do you know what your position will be? 2016? I've got a
:53:17. > :53:23.crystal ball but I'm not looking that far ahead. I think when I'm
:53:23. > :53:26.making that decision my husband will be the first to know, not the
:53:26. > :53:32.BBC. But I have a very important job to do. I have the great
:53:32. > :53:35.privilege of being a Presiding Officer. There's lots of work to do.
:53:35. > :53:41.A youth introduced some changes this week to business in the
:53:42. > :53:45.Assembly. -- you have introduced. Have you been stung by a question
:53:45. > :53:50.that perhaps you are too cosy with the government when it comes to
:53:50. > :53:53.First Minister's Questions? Well, you almost -- you ought ask the
:53:53. > :54:00.First Minister about my relationship with them. You will
:54:00. > :54:04.find it is anything but cosy! I must be doing something right
:54:04. > :54:11.because I suppose I am equally unfair with everybody. I was a bit
:54:11. > :54:16.taken aback by it and the running of the Assembly. I have introduced
:54:16. > :54:21.quite a few changes. We rearranged the committee so it is bigger. We
:54:21. > :54:26.now look at scrutiny and policy changing. So the members can build
:54:26. > :54:29.up a much better expertise. I'm going to introduce more
:54:29. > :54:34.opportunities to backbench legislation. Cross-party debates,
:54:34. > :54:39.and also leaders questions, which was any before. So a lot is
:54:40. > :54:44.happening. I'm pleased to say that this week the business committee
:54:44. > :54:47.has agreed we will change the timing for submitting questions. At
:54:47. > :54:56.the moment, they have to be submitted to ministers two weeks in
:54:56. > :55:00.advance. Now, it will be five days for ministers and three days for
:55:00. > :55:07.the first ministers, which means the questions will be more topical
:55:07. > :55:11.and concise. That's what it comes down to, so the government can be
:55:11. > :55:20.scrutinised. Do you think they are being scrutinised sufficiently
:55:20. > :55:23.well? I can't possibly comment on that, but the opportunity is there
:55:23. > :55:28.for members to ask concise questions. If they're not getting
:55:28. > :55:31.the answers, keep asking the questions. I'm not responsible for
:55:31. > :55:34.what the ministers say, I'm responsible for making sure the
:55:34. > :55:41.system is there so that other members of the Assembly can
:55:41. > :55:48.pressure them. Thank you. That was the presiding Officer Rosemary
:55:48. > :55:58.Butler. She said she doesn't have the answers as to how to get more
:55:58. > :55:59.
:55:59. > :56:08.women elected. Do you? Well, plight curry has a woman deputy leader,
:56:08. > :56:15.chair, chief executive. We have a very good record in the past. --
:56:15. > :56:19.Plaid Cymru. There isn't one answer but I welcome the fact she has
:56:20. > :56:25.written to the parties. They are now in the process of choosing
:56:25. > :56:34.candidates, so this is the right time. There are whole range of
:56:34. > :56:37.messages -- measures that can be looked at. There have been a lot of
:56:37. > :56:42.women candidates in Wales who have stood in Wales where there is no
:56:42. > :56:46.chance of winning. That is good experience of course, but
:56:46. > :56:51.ultimately for the Assembly and government, we want equal
:56:51. > :56:54.representation, so we want women to win seats in the Assembly, to take
:56:54. > :57:01.up those seats so that we can say once again the we are amongst the
:57:01. > :57:06.best in the world. Your party had equal distribution in recent years.
:57:06. > :57:11.You won a seat when one of your comments -- colleagues step down.
:57:11. > :57:17.That happened a lot, lots of women AMs step down and were replaced by
:57:18. > :57:24.men. Was that a step backwards? think there is a danger in using
:57:25. > :57:29.the electoral system to manipulate too much. People will react if they
:57:29. > :57:34.feel they are not being given a choice. I agree with the point that
:57:34. > :57:39.there is no simple answer, but I'm encouraged her looking across
:57:39. > :57:43.parties at the number of very articulate women coming forward
:57:44. > :57:49.through the LA -- the political process. I think it is the support
:57:49. > :57:54.for those candidates in the future that is important. But people are
:57:54. > :58:01.encouraged, because clearly we want an Assembly that reflects society
:58:01. > :58:04.at large. And one that is able to hold the government to account.
:58:04. > :58:08.Some of the other things Rosemary Butler suggested there, the changes
:58:08. > :58:12.she is making to make question asking more concise - perhaps
:58:12. > :58:19.something I could learn from both you and your colleagues could learn
:58:19. > :58:23.from it as well. I think the problem is not in the answers
:58:23. > :58:27.people are getting, but the quality of the questions. Sometimes
:58:27. > :58:34.remembers confuse making a speech with asking a probing question that
:58:34. > :58:38.leads to identifying issues that they want to raise. So there is an
:58:38. > :58:46.issue there. The quality of what you ask rather than the information
:58:46. > :58:51.given afterwards. Is this a problem in the European Parliament?
:58:51. > :58:54.don't, because speaking time is strictly restricted. I must say,
:58:55. > :59:00.when we do ask questions, we get very open, detailed answers,
:59:00. > :59:08.generally. The problem there is the lack of speaking time not the
:59:08. > :59:18.length of questions. Time now for a quick look back at
:59:18. > :59:21.
:59:21. > :59:26.the political stories of the last Carwyn Jones set the debate was led
:59:26. > :59:35.by corrosive English nationalism. He said withdrawal from the EU
:59:35. > :59:41.would be disastrous for the Welsh economy. A cross-party group of AMs
:59:41. > :59:44.united in an attempt to save local health services in Wales. Four of
:59:44. > :59:50.them won the Minister to intervene and plans to move specialist
:59:50. > :59:53.intensive baby-care to England after the university health board
:59:53. > :59:56.said it must over all services. BBC Wales apologised for a claim
:59:57. > :00:03.that a story in the medical drama casualty had to be pulled because
:00:03. > :00:13.of a smoking ban in Wales. The smoking did a runner by filming an
:00:13. > :00:14.
:00:14. > :00:24.alternative way of his smoking scene.
:00:24. > :00:30.
:00:30. > :00:40.And four of the town's hotels have What is your favourite seaside
:00:40. > :00:44.
:00:44. > :00:47.resort? I would have to pick between a few. Now, there is a
:00:47. > :00:55.decision on the Agricultural wages Board, which are in the UK
:00:55. > :01:03.government decided to abolish. You want it reinstated here in Wales.
:01:03. > :01:08.Yes, the government wants to retain a body that does that function. The
:01:08. > :01:14.function maintains levels of wagers for farmers. It is a living wage
:01:14. > :01:18.agricultural workers. What you will start seeing his moves by the
:01:18. > :01:22.government, if you're going to abolish it, we are going to take
:01:22. > :01:28.measures under the devolved agricultural responsibility to
:01:28. > :01:34.protect agricultural workers in Wales. It was going to be abolished
:01:34. > :01:39.on an England and Wales level without much consultation --
:01:39. > :01:43.consultation with the Assembly. think what the Assembly has done is
:01:43. > :01:48.right. If you're talking about agriculture, we've had massive
:01:48. > :01:56.debates and votes this week in the European Parliament on the future
:01:56. > :02:01.of agriculture policy. We're just campaigning now about things that
:02:01. > :02:08.would affect the income of Welsh farmers badly. Thank you for
:02:08. > :02:18.watching us today. That's all we have time for. You can watch the
:02:18. > :02:18.