:01:28. > :01:32.I have been talking to the First Minister about the future of
:01:32. > :01:42.Cardiff airport, the economy and the reorganisation of the health
:01:42. > :01:42.
:01:42. > :42:01.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2419 seconds
:42:01. > :42:05.Hello, and on the Sunday Politics Wales: We'll hear from the First
:42:05. > :42:08.Minister on the economy and the NHS. And is the Welsh newspaper industry
:42:08. > :42:13.dying? Joining me throughout today's
:42:14. > :42:23.programme are Labour's Julie Morgan and the Conservative Angela Burns.
:42:24. > :42:28.
:42:28. > :42:31.Good morning to you both. Let's start with this news that 25 --
:42:31. > :42:37.that the Conservative chairman it is asking the Prime Minister to
:42:37. > :42:43.delay any vote on gay marriage until after the election. Why would
:42:43. > :42:47.they want to do that? They are so divided within the Conservative
:42:47. > :42:53.Party. The vast majority of Labour MPs will vote for gay marriage. I
:42:53. > :43:00.support gay marriage. A lot of progress was made in the last
:43:00. > :43:06.Labour government. I think we should move ahead. In some papers
:43:06. > :43:11.this morning, there was a suggestion that some Cabinet
:43:11. > :43:16.members and whips would vote against gay marriage. We have heard
:43:16. > :43:21.in a split in your party over Europe, and they are split over
:43:21. > :43:27.this, aren't they? Communications about this have been so poor. I
:43:27. > :43:31.support gay marriage, but I do not support any church been forced to
:43:31. > :43:36.alter the fundamental, religious beliefs. There has been confusion
:43:36. > :43:45.as to what this act is doing and how far it is going. The state
:43:45. > :43:49.should never interfere in church. That is only becoming clear now.
:43:49. > :43:56.Many people may have been opposed because they are not clear about
:43:56. > :43:59.what it is all about. Now, the First Minister Carwyn
:43:59. > :44:02.Jones has probably spent more time than he expected to in airports
:44:02. > :44:04.this year. He's been on trade missions to Turkey and Ireland in
:44:05. > :44:07.January as well as being involved in discussions for his government
:44:08. > :44:10.to buy Cardiff Airport. At the same time, his government's decision to
:44:10. > :44:13.go ahead with big changes the health service are proving
:44:13. > :44:19.controversial in many parts of the country. Plenty for us to discuss,
:44:19. > :44:24.then, as we met up earlier this week.
:44:24. > :44:29.He offered me a seat around the Cabinet table, and I asked him if
:44:29. > :44:38.the deal would go through. We can't be certain because we are still
:44:38. > :44:43.going through the accounts. In terms of price, there was a
:44:43. > :44:48.valuation, agreed by both parties. If that deal does break down, I
:44:48. > :44:54.Euclid in discussions with the operators of the airport what the
:44:54. > :44:58.future will be? There are no suggestions it will break down. We
:44:58. > :45:03.are in the same position, both parties, and we have to good
:45:03. > :45:10.through the accounts to make sure all is well. There is no reason why
:45:10. > :45:16.we cannot proceed. You have had the opportunity to use the airport. In
:45:16. > :45:24.the last week, you went to Dublin from Cardiff. How did you find the
:45:24. > :45:31.airport? It is fine. A few things need to be changed - the entrance,
:45:31. > :45:36.and the fact people have to pay to be dropped off, issues such as
:45:36. > :45:39.having staff in the catering facilities, these are things not
:45:39. > :45:46.difficult to resolve. But the important thing is people have a
:45:46. > :45:52.very good impression of Wales when they arrive at the airport. We can
:45:52. > :45:59.follow the airport to the theme. Over the course of the year, they
:45:59. > :46:04.are trade missions in place. You are off to Dubai, San Francisco,
:46:05. > :46:11.Barcelona. The Conservatives have described these trade missions as
:46:11. > :46:17.vanity projects. They never described the Prime Minister's
:46:17. > :46:25.trade missions as vanity projects! Some of them are headed by
:46:25. > :46:30.ministers, some take businesses with them, some of the March trade
:46:30. > :46:35.missions that only have businesses going. If you do not cut out there
:46:35. > :46:38.and soya softer the world, the world will not come to you.
:46:38. > :46:48.Scotland and Northern Ireland are there all the time. -- if you do
:46:48. > :46:49.
:46:49. > :46:56.not get out there and sell yourself to the world's. We went India, came
:46:56. > :47:05.back, and so tartare made the commitment to invest �500 million
:47:06. > :47:11.in the steel industry in Wales. you think talking to them face-to-
:47:11. > :47:20.face made a difference? It in India, we were hosting events where we
:47:20. > :47:25.expected 60 people and two large and 50 turned up. -- 250. It is a
:47:25. > :47:31.bit like being a market trader and going into the market, not having a
:47:31. > :47:36.sign, not advertising, and expecting people to come to you. We
:47:36. > :47:40.have to target where we go very effectively. Whenever I go
:47:40. > :47:46.somewhere, I want there to be something tangible so people can
:47:46. > :47:54.see results. As far as California is concerned, there will be an
:47:54. > :48:00.announcement made there. You talk about selling the message abroad.
:48:00. > :48:05.You have a difficult message to sell about health reorganisation.
:48:05. > :48:12.Do you think you're government's decision to reorganise the health
:48:12. > :48:18.service could cost two seeds? would collapse otherwise. In
:48:18. > :48:22.England, there are no plans, and it is collapsing all over the place.
:48:22. > :48:28.But we know that argument. I am wondering about the political side
:48:28. > :48:34.of it. People want to seek a safe and sustainable health service. The
:48:34. > :48:39.worst thing is that nothing happens and services to disappear at random.
:48:39. > :48:49.People would say, you knew this would happen, or why did you not do
:48:49. > :48:50.
:48:50. > :48:54.anything? People will see that what we're trying to do is make a save,
:48:54. > :49:01.sustainable health service. The local health boards have submitted
:49:01. > :49:04.plans, there is a stage where those plans will be submitted to
:49:04. > :49:10.ministers, and the Government looks at the plans in detail. But there
:49:10. > :49:18.has to be changed in the health service. I am not going to say,
:49:18. > :49:26.let's do nothing at all. I will not do that. In North Wales, the most
:49:26. > :49:36.controversial plan, perhaps, is a plan to move out intensive care for
:49:36. > :49:41.babies. What you think that says about devolution? 14 years after
:49:41. > :49:47.the assembly was established, the situation is arising where services
:49:47. > :49:57.are being sent to England because, potentially, they are not able to
:49:57. > :49:57.
:49:57. > :50:01.be delivered in England. I will not comment on any individual case. It
:50:01. > :50:08.would not be right for me to comment now wants something I want
:50:08. > :50:18.to look at further on down the line. Generally, there are services in
:50:18. > :50:19.
:50:19. > :50:25.England that will be available to people and Wales. Bristol, for
:50:25. > :50:32.example, takes services for children and provides phone for
:50:33. > :50:42.South Wales. The NHS is important in Wales, but we are not going to
:50:42. > :50:52.create a self-contained NHS in Wales. It is about ensuring we have
:50:52. > :50:55.
:50:55. > :51:00.a safe and sustainable NHS with services available.
:51:00. > :51:06.Robust defence of the Government's decision to reorganise. He said the
:51:06. > :51:09.health service would collapse. thought to was a masterclass in how
:51:10. > :51:18.to avoid responsibility! That this is what the Labour government have
:51:18. > :51:24.done all along. The Government will not discuss any of it, I felt it
:51:24. > :51:32.was interesting he said that he might look at it. We have this
:51:32. > :51:39.endless hiding behind blame. At what point or we treat the
:51:39. > :51:43.population of Wales like the mature individuals they are? Everybody
:51:43. > :51:48.recognises the NHS has to change. Nobody disputes that, but where we
:51:48. > :51:53.have not had a proper debate is about what are deemed essential
:51:53. > :52:00.services. At the moment, we have health boards saying, we cannot get
:52:00. > :52:04.these kinds of people, so you can only have this and that. That is
:52:04. > :52:12.not acceptable. We need to talk about what we need locally. And
:52:12. > :52:17.please, remember, an awful lot of us living very rural communities
:52:17. > :52:25.where getting to any hospital is a trek. If one hospital is devoid of
:52:25. > :52:33.services, it made sure live very difficult indeed. Are you part of
:52:33. > :52:38.this conspiracy?! My constituency is in Cardiff, so my constituents
:52:38. > :52:48.are concerned about the brief figuration, But we are affected
:52:48. > :52:49.
:52:49. > :52:55.less. The message is clear - there have been independent reports.
:52:55. > :52:59.There has to be changed, and we want save, sustainable services.
:52:59. > :53:03.Any person we spoke to in Wales would want the best for their
:53:03. > :53:10.family and for themselves, and it wanted to be safe and have the
:53:10. > :53:18.highest quality. There are such huge challenges facing us -
:53:18. > :53:24.technology, the ageing population - so people need to get access.
:53:24. > :53:27.Hospitals will specialise. That seems to me to make sense. They can
:53:27. > :53:32.specialise in a network of hospitals. I do understand how
:53:32. > :53:36.people feel. It is difficult to grasp that maybe your hospital may
:53:36. > :53:40.not give up the service that has given in the past, but as
:53:40. > :53:48.politicians, we have to discuss that and give the message. And the
:53:48. > :53:57.Welsh Government will be the final port of call. The First Minister
:53:57. > :54:04.does not think Labour will lose out in the polls. Some Assembly Members
:54:04. > :54:11.could potentially lose out. Is he right? This is a difficult subject
:54:11. > :54:16.to tackle. It is brave and right we are doing it. What we have to do is
:54:16. > :54:21.go out, explain, understand and try to take on board people's fears and
:54:21. > :54:28.explain what we can do. It is up to us to make sure we do not lose our
:54:28. > :54:36.seats. The economy - trade missions abroad, at your party leader has
:54:36. > :54:45.been very critical of the First Minister as vanity projects. We saw
:54:45. > :54:53.the interview. Is he a salesman? I don't think so! When you go abroad,
:54:53. > :54:58.you need to do a number of things. If you want to win business, you
:54:58. > :55:03.have to go out with a really positive story, talk about your
:55:03. > :55:08.training and education, which is not in the healthiest of places in
:55:08. > :55:13.Wales. You need to go out with packages to entice people, you need
:55:13. > :55:23.the whole gamut. You need to have persuasive personality. I have not
:55:23. > :55:26.
:55:26. > :55:30.seen the results, have you? I would like to comment! To use it at home
:55:30. > :55:38.and hope something will come, or her will do you go out there with
:55:38. > :55:48.the rest of the country's? -- do you sit at home and hope something
:55:48. > :55:50.
:55:50. > :55:56.will come, or do you go at there with the rest of the country? To
:55:56. > :56:00.call it a vanity project, I mean, these missions are so hard - long
:56:00. > :56:05.hours, long flights, you would not want to go unless you really wanted
:56:05. > :56:09.to sell something and improve things for Wales. It is an issue of
:56:09. > :56:17.whether you sit on the sidelines or would you go with the traders and
:56:17. > :56:20.try and bring something back. That is a very important part of his job.
:56:20. > :56:22.Are we seeing the "death throes" of the press industry in Wales? The
:56:22. > :56:25.media expert from Cardiff University, Dr John Jewell, thought
:56:25. > :56:35.so when Trinity Mirror announced more job cuts this week across
:56:35. > :56:39.
:56:39. > :56:49.their Welsh titles, including 16 at the Western Mail South Wales Echo.
:56:49. > :56:50.
:56:50. > :56:56.Newspapers are going through tough times. The Labour Assembly Member
:56:56. > :57:02.says papers must change. They need to have a new unique selling point.
:57:02. > :57:07.I believe that is based on a more local news, more exclusive regional
:57:07. > :57:16.and local features, and on better quality journalism, not fewer
:57:16. > :57:20.journalists, not taking copy from news agencies. Reports suggest the
:57:20. > :57:26.Western Mail is preparing to give away thousands of copies for three
:57:26. > :57:28.in Swansea as a way to tackle the Evening Post dominance. At some
:57:28. > :57:34.editors say the changes in the industry are providing
:57:34. > :57:40.opportunities. What is happening is that people are less reliant on
:57:40. > :57:45.newspapers to communicate their messages. You can almost bypass the
:57:45. > :57:49.journalists now to get your message directly to your consumers. That is
:57:49. > :57:54.where social media is playing a huge role - she can speak directly
:57:54. > :58:03.to consumers. The social importance of the newspaper industry is
:58:03. > :58:12.clashing with the economics of changing demand and technology. You
:58:12. > :58:20.lead a debate in the assembly. This news probably only exacerbates
:58:20. > :58:26.those concerns. It is very worrying. This industry employers an awful
:58:26. > :58:30.lot of people. But above all, we want that industry to reflect, or
:58:30. > :58:35.whether it is BBC or ITV, to reflect things of interest for the
:58:35. > :58:45.people and Wales. I do understand how a bunch a feature writers in
:58:45. > :58:45.
:58:45. > :58:49.Liverpool can write articles of interest to people in Wales. I was
:58:49. > :58:53.talking to an editor of a local newspaper about how they can grow.
:58:53. > :58:58.You have people wanting then use now and not tomorrow. The other big
:58:58. > :59:08.problem with having a very weak media in Wales is how all politics
:59:08. > :59:12.
:59:12. > :59:18.grew? How well the assembly develop as a political institution? They
:59:18. > :59:28.can watch this programme! The companies would say they are able
:59:28. > :59:28.
:59:28. > :59:34.to cut a Welsh efforts. -- to cover. You ask some reporters, they are
:59:34. > :59:44.not entirely clear where Wales Ayres! The. Angela makes about
:59:44. > :59:44.
:59:44. > :59:54.Assembly Members being -- the point Angela makes. It is so important.
:59:54. > :59:55.
:59:55. > :00:00.For me, in Cardiff, people say, we saw you in the Echo! People need to
:00:00. > :00:04.see me in the Echo. It is very worrying, about what is happening
:00:04. > :00:09.with regional press. It is important that the point of view of
:00:09. > :00:16.the assembly there we are building a new institution. There is an
:00:16. > :00:25.issue as well, that newspapers a breeding grounds for journalists.
:00:25. > :00:35.It is bringing people through as well. Yes, and the other important
:00:35. > :00:38.
:00:38. > :00:48.thing about the regional press, it does a pretty straight job. It is a
:00:48. > :00:50.
:00:50. > :00:54.huge loss. I watched a debate in the assembly. We have lost very
:00:55. > :01:00.good programmes since then. Here we are, with the news about the
:01:00. > :01:07.Western Mail. Local newspapers are struggling to make ends meet. All I
:01:07. > :01:11.would say to those barons at there, and to the taxpayer, we need to
:01:11. > :01:18.have a vibrant press that is honest and true, whether it is based in
:01:18. > :01:21.Westminster in England, all in Cardiff. Otherwise, how all our
:01:21. > :01:25.society be able to understand what politics is all about?
:01:25. > :01:35.Time now for a quick look back at some of the political stories of
:01:35. > :01:40.
:01:40. > :01:47.the week in 60 seconds. David Cameron's plans to redraw
:01:47. > :01:51.constituency boundaries and cut the number of MPs were rejected by MPs.
:01:51. > :02:01.The Liberal Democrats withdrew their support. It now means Wales
:02:01. > :02:04.
:02:04. > :02:14.will not lose 10 of its 40 seats. Miss Moon called for an ombudsman
:02:14. > :02:15.
:02:15. > :02:21.to improve military justice. David Jones described the
:02:21. > :02:28.relationship of the new broadcasters as historic.
:02:28. > :02:32.The Newport MP was told off for calling a minister and a
:02:32. > :02:42.preposterous buffoon. John burkas said he could not use the phrase,
:02:42. > :02:44.
:02:44. > :02:49.but could call be energy minister incompetent.
:02:49. > :02:58.Let us look ahead this week - there is a debate in the Assembly, where
:02:58. > :03:05.politicians will be urging local councils to install speed limits.
:03:05. > :03:11.Yes, where they have been installed, there have been very successful. To
:03:11. > :03:16.me, commonsense this should be outside all schools. And it is
:03:16. > :03:24.happening in some local authorities but not all. Yes, but we would like
:03:24. > :03:27.it to happen every were. Angela, we heard from Paul Flynn and there,
:03:27. > :03:36.calling the end load -- the energy minister a bathroom! Have you ever
:03:36. > :03:42.been tempted to call a minister a bathroom? I don't think so. I think
:03:42. > :03:47.that his disrespectful. What I worry about is more about the
:03:47. > :03:51.combative nature of dealing with the educational environment, and
:03:51. > :04:01.also, you look at some ministers and think, you have really missed a