:01:15. > :01:18.Later in the programme - As Kirsty Williams prepares to address her
:01:18. > :01:28.party's spring conference in Cardiff she has been talking to the
:01:28. > :01:28.
:01:28. > :36:00.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2072 seconds
:36:00. > :36:03.Sunday Politics and our political Hello and on the Sunday Politics
:36:03. > :36:05.Wales - We hear from the Welsh Liberal Democrat leader Kirsty
:36:05. > :36:08.Williams as she was preparing to address her party's spring
:36:08. > :36:11.conference. And another cross border dispute
:36:11. > :36:16.this time involving a stately home and a windfarm on the Powys-
:36:16. > :36:19.Herefordshire border. Joining me throughout today's programme are
:36:19. > :36:29.the Labour Assembly Member Vaughan Gething and the Liberal Democrat MP,
:36:29. > :36:35.
:36:35. > :36:40.Mark Williams. Let's address the ongoing measles outbreak. You have
:36:40. > :36:44.been appointed the chair of the assembly's health committee. 3,000
:36:44. > :36:48.people have been vaccinated in recent days. No end in sight for
:36:48. > :36:54.this at the moment. Is there something your committee can be
:36:54. > :36:59.doing? We may want to look at the end of the period of the outbreak
:36:59. > :37:04.at lessons to be learned. Right now the important messages 800 people
:37:04. > :37:09.have measles in the Swansea area and it is vital people get their
:37:09. > :37:12.children vaccinated with the MMR. It is safe, there is no risk to
:37:12. > :37:21.children and there is at a gap for children in particular between the
:37:21. > :37:27.ages of 10-18. If you are a parent, take advantage of the clinics.
:37:27. > :37:31.were chatting before the programme, you faced the dilemma whether to
:37:31. > :37:36.put your child forward for the vaccine a few years ago when the
:37:36. > :37:40.debate was ongoing. I can remember the discussions we had as a family
:37:40. > :37:45.given the information, now perhaps misinformation, that was going
:37:45. > :37:50.around at the time. People were concerned about the well-being of
:37:50. > :37:59.their children and the balance of the conflicting issues. I commend
:37:59. > :38:03.the health or that have risen to the challenge. -- the health board.
:38:03. > :38:06.We will leave it there for now and move on. As I sit here speaking to
:38:06. > :38:11.you the leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats, Kirsty Williams, is
:38:11. > :38:14.bringing her party conference to an end with a speech in Cardiff. We're
:38:14. > :38:16.told that she will be saying that the party has reached a "crucial
:38:16. > :38:20.turning point" in its history and winning the recent Eastleigh by-
:38:20. > :38:29.election showed the party could win in tough circumstances. Kirsty
:38:30. > :38:35.Williams has been speaking to our political editor, Betsan Powys.
:38:35. > :38:38.We have heard many times do in this conference it is time to look
:38:38. > :38:43.backwards and move forward. It is hardly surprising that you are
:38:43. > :38:46.saying that given that the view backwards is pretty torrid. He is
:38:46. > :38:51.that fair to say that the past few years have hit the party pretty
:38:51. > :38:57.hard in Wales? It would be foolish to pretend the past few years
:38:57. > :39:01.haven't been difficult. The important message is, and it was
:39:01. > :39:07.shown in Eastleigh, where week campaign vigorously on the streets
:39:07. > :39:12.and talk to people those messages are well received. We are out there
:39:12. > :39:17.talking about raising the threshold of income tax, that to mean a tax
:39:17. > :39:21.break for one million Welsh workers, 100,000 of them won't be paying tax
:39:21. > :39:25.at all. We need to talk about those messages and when people hear them
:39:25. > :39:30.people respond. This they have to be an admission first that the
:39:30. > :39:36.first half of this government have been tough for you? Has it knocked
:39:36. > :39:41.your confidence? When you have been a political party that hasn't had
:39:41. > :39:45.to be a party of government for 80 years, it takes a lot of getting
:39:45. > :39:49.used to. We have coming to power at a time when things that difficult.
:39:49. > :39:57.People have to make difficult decisions. We are quite clear in
:39:57. > :40:04.our message that if you want a stronger economy Bowe wants to live
:40:04. > :40:08.in a fairer society, only the Liberal Democrats can deliver it.
:40:08. > :40:12.How long are you going to hold the line about talking about the bits
:40:12. > :40:15.of policy you had been part of delivering their not ever in these
:40:15. > :40:21.interviews talking about the unpopular policies you have been
:40:21. > :40:25.part of delivering. The economy is still quite factor but it is clear
:40:25. > :40:29.to me that if you run up a load of debts and you go to and advice
:40:29. > :40:34.agencies to find out how you can get out of it, nobody says carry on
:40:34. > :40:39.spending. So George Osborne has still got this right? We are trying
:40:39. > :40:45.to address the debt problem. You can't be inflexible, you have to
:40:45. > :40:49.understand how that impacts people in the community. That is why tax
:40:49. > :40:55.cuts for ordinary working people is so important. Do you feel George
:40:56. > :41:01.Osborne is being inflexible or not? George Osborne have a job to do in
:41:01. > :41:04.reducing the deficit. Because we have Liberal Democrats in their
:41:04. > :41:09.government that they are there to make sure we can introduce an
:41:09. > :41:14.element of fairness. Where people on low incomes get a tax break. We
:41:14. > :41:19.come but important investments into infrastructure to help boost the
:41:19. > :41:23.economy. Those are things they would not be happening if the
:41:23. > :41:27.Liberal Democrats haven't taken the brave step to put the country first.
:41:27. > :41:32.It would have been easier for us to walk away and kept our hands clean
:41:32. > :41:36.that there would not have served the country well. But what we have
:41:36. > :41:41.got to do it is not be afraid of telling people about what we're
:41:41. > :41:49.doing in government and giving them a reason to vote for us. Do you
:41:50. > :41:54.feel a burden of responsibility on your shoulders? The party in the UK
:41:54. > :41:59.level are hoping as vice-chair of the group looking ahead to the
:41:59. > :42:06.general elections, you can help. Are you feeling is responsibility,
:42:06. > :42:12.the "Kirsty factor"? In it is gratifying when you're -- it is
:42:12. > :42:16.gratifying when your colleagues think you're doing a good job. We
:42:16. > :42:19.are holding a failing Labour government to account in Wales. We
:42:19. > :42:26.have underfunded schools, schools as a falling behind because the
:42:26. > :42:35.Welsh Government's refusal to put more money in. The NHS is costing
:42:35. > :42:43.more and delivering last. -- last. We have to hold the government to
:42:43. > :42:48.account and used the government -- the influence we have. Let's see
:42:48. > :42:57.what our guests make of that. Kirsty Williams has giving you her
:42:57. > :43:04.permission to talk to us today! She ended their suggesting she is going
:43:04. > :43:07.to continue to be taking a Labour in the Assembly. Overall, I read
:43:07. > :43:11.the story this morning that Kirsty Williams had set her confidence had
:43:11. > :43:19.been knocked after your party had gone into coalition. Do you feel
:43:19. > :43:22.like that? In it was an incredibly hard decision for the party to take.
:43:22. > :43:26.We had been fighting the Conservative Party for decades are
:43:26. > :43:30.to have this very difficult decision of the last election did
:43:30. > :43:37.involve a lot of soul-searching from a lot of us. But the economy
:43:38. > :43:42.was in a dire Straits, and as Kirsty said, we had to put the
:43:42. > :43:45.national interest first. It was important for us and we made the
:43:45. > :43:51.right decision. That is not to say everything in the coalition is
:43:51. > :43:55.right, there is work to be done. In the same way Kirsty is having
:43:55. > :44:00.ministers in the Assembly it is our job to do the same in Westminster,
:44:00. > :44:05.to put forward the Liberal Democrat case to our coalition colleagues.
:44:05. > :44:08.Let's look at that in detail. Mark and his colleagues are taking on
:44:09. > :44:13.what trying to halt the Conservatives back in government
:44:13. > :44:19.while Kirsty Williams is targeting the Labour government. Danny
:44:19. > :44:23.Alexander said today Wales suffers from Labour's policy of ambition.
:44:23. > :44:32.Labour failed to give tax powers to the Assembly. Having a go at your
:44:32. > :44:35.party. That is to be expected. The Welsh Liberal Democrats -- the
:44:35. > :44:40.Liberal Democrat made the decision to go into bed with the
:44:40. > :44:44.Conservatives. Apart from Kirsty Williams telling the Liberal
:44:44. > :44:49.Democrats are the answer to the world, all the answers could have
:44:49. > :44:52.been given by a Conservative politicians. If you knock on doors
:44:52. > :44:56.here people are angry about the government and they know the
:44:56. > :45:05.Liberal Democrats are part of it. Look at them messaging here in
:45:05. > :45:11.Wales, whether it is the bedroom tax, while De -- the wider tax
:45:11. > :45:15.reforms. Talking about tax breaks is is going to cut it. I remember
:45:16. > :45:20.line one of our manifesto, our first priority in the general
:45:20. > :45:27.election was talking about tax. It is talking about taking people from
:45:27. > :45:31.a tax regime. We have done that. We talked about pensions. We have had
:45:31. > :45:37.that because pension increase for many years. The Tories have talked
:45:37. > :45:41.about regional pay. We have stopped regional pay. You are right, many
:45:41. > :45:46.of us have great concerns about tuition fees and many of us did not
:45:46. > :45:50.support the government on that issue. But we are a junior partner
:45:50. > :45:58.in a coalition. We are punching above our weight and we are making
:45:58. > :46:04.concrete achievements. There. He raises his you chronicles successes
:46:04. > :46:13.as you see them, but you have to take responsibility for things that
:46:13. > :46:17.many in the electorate will not seek as successful. If you did not
:46:17. > :46:25.win Eastleigh you're never going to win an election ever again. There
:46:25. > :46:30.was a time when we threw everything at Eastleigh. It was difficult
:46:30. > :46:36.first to hold that seat. But we did hold it. That wasn't against all
:46:36. > :46:46.the odds. The East the example in Wales was Cardiff Central. They had
:46:46. > :46:51.
:46:51. > :46:55.an Assembly Member at every seat. Kirsty Williams has said she
:46:55. > :46:58.supports the bedroom tax. She did not to talk about it in the
:46:58. > :47:03.interview but the public know that is what the Lib Dems have done.
:47:03. > :47:13.They will have to take that when it comes to knocking on doors. The
:47:13. > :47:19.public are not stupid, they know they have done that the. Would lead
:47:19. > :47:23.to be talking about taking thousands of people out of the tax
:47:23. > :47:28.regime altogether, would be be talking about regional pay if I
:47:28. > :47:32.hadn't been for the Liberal Democrats in government? I spent a
:47:32. > :47:38.lot of time knocking on doors in your constituency. Eastleigh was
:47:38. > :47:44.about winning and building up the party. It has been a difficult year.
:47:44. > :47:54.Has it been a trying, difficult two years? It has. It is difficult for
:47:54. > :47:55.
:47:55. > :48:01.a junior partner in a coalition. want to talk about Kirsty Williams.
:48:01. > :48:05.She is seen as a political asset either party. She is the vice-chair
:48:05. > :48:11.of the general election campaign. You consider her nascent? I always
:48:11. > :48:15.consider Kirsty Williams an asset. She has the outstanding performers
:48:15. > :48:20.in the National Assembly. She is the one that really Des an
:48:20. > :48:23.effective job in the chamber. The five and a National Assembly
:48:23. > :48:30.pension above their weight. Some of your colleagues have remarked on
:48:30. > :48:36.that. Kirsty Williams is a leader and she is an effective one. I
:48:36. > :48:43.promised I would be there to listen to her speech. Do you consider
:48:43. > :48:47.Kirsty Williams and asset? I don't have a problem who the Lib Dem
:48:47. > :48:51.leader is. What they're big challenge is what they do as a
:48:51. > :48:59.party. I don't think the public will forgive the Lib-Dems or
:48:59. > :49:03.forgive them. -- all listen to them. We will be back with you shortly.
:49:03. > :49:06.Next, plans for a wind farm just over the border in England could be
:49:06. > :49:09.scuppered because developers may not be allowed to widen the road to
:49:09. > :49:11.the site because it lies just inside Wales. Opponents of the
:49:11. > :49:14.scheme in Powys say that the proposed development will spoil the
:49:14. > :49:24.view from one of our most important parks. Daniel Davies reports from
:49:24. > :49:27.
:49:27. > :49:31.the border between Powys and Herefordshire.
:49:31. > :49:38.In the 1980s it was the setting for races, about a planning row. Now,
:49:38. > :49:42.in real life, Stanage Park is at the centre will of a row over
:49:42. > :49:49.planning. In England Herefordshire's planners have given
:49:49. > :49:55.permission for four turbines. Stanage Park was was built to the
:49:55. > :50:00.19th century. Their only two others like it in Wales he designed. But
:50:00. > :50:05.Cadw says the turbines would do serious harm to the visual
:50:05. > :50:09.character of these grounds. The proposed wind farm is about three
:50:10. > :50:14.miles from the town of Knighton. Developers have been given
:50:14. > :50:19.permission to put four 100 metre high turbines on this hill in
:50:19. > :50:26.England. They generate enough electricity for thousands of homes.
:50:26. > :50:31.But this dry-stone wall is the border with Wales. Offa's Dyke is a
:50:31. > :50:36.throws -- Max does throw away. Down there in Powys there are people who
:50:36. > :50:40.object to this proposal. To build up a wind farm the developers will
:50:40. > :50:43.have to widen this road to get the turbines up to the site and the
:50:43. > :50:47.road is in Wales. The Welsh Government has said many work on
:50:47. > :50:51.the road needs to be assessed by Howard's will affect the
:50:51. > :50:55.environment and a decision was welcomed by the Welsh Assembly
:50:55. > :50:59.Member. Local people felt the turbines should be considered
:50:59. > :51:02.alongside the access route and now that poets have been able to get
:51:02. > :51:06.some clear wrens and guidance from the last government that is the
:51:06. > :51:13.case, I welcome that very much indeed. My constituents have an
:51:13. > :51:17.opportunity to express their views and now we have a more -- more
:51:17. > :51:21.weight being given to the council views. Motherwell's Government's
:51:22. > :51:30.decision means his planners at Powys County Council will have to
:51:30. > :51:35.take into account the view of the turbines from Stanage Park. -- what
:51:35. > :51:41.the Welsh Government's decision. They can just comments on the
:51:41. > :51:46.impact on the road but also the impact of the whole wind farm on
:51:46. > :51:51.residents on the landscape etc. Simon Gourlay is a retired farmer
:51:51. > :51:54.who wants to build the turbines on his land. He says they were lost
:51:54. > :52:03.but the landscape and is challenging the Welsh Government's
:52:03. > :52:09.decision. Herefordshire took into account the impact on Stanage Park.
:52:09. > :52:18.They will produce energy for 5,000 dwellings. It is a lot more than
:52:18. > :52:22.5,000 people. The neighbouring villages. He has been trying to
:52:22. > :52:26.build a wind farm here for 20 years and it is a saga that has far
:52:26. > :52:32.outlasted the TV farce Blott on the Landscape and looks likely to
:52:32. > :52:37.rumble on for some time to come. We can see when somebody would want
:52:37. > :52:41.to pit a wind farm they commit was very windy during that report. It
:52:41. > :52:46.is another take on cross-border problems. I don't think it is a
:52:46. > :52:51.problem. When you have more than one planning authority, there is
:52:51. > :52:54.always a possible heir of complexity. When it is something
:52:54. > :52:59.like energy development there are strong views on one side or the
:52:59. > :53:03.other. If you look at the proposals to have a tidal lagoon in the
:53:03. > :53:08.Swansea Bay, that crosses Swansea and Neath Port Talbot so there is
:53:08. > :53:14.potential for things to go wrong. The lagoon is more well received
:53:14. > :53:18.and I'm positive. The problem with Powys is, there are fundamental
:53:18. > :53:23.opposition to wind farms per say which I don't support or agree with.
:53:23. > :53:32.Wind power is part of the solution for future energy. I don't think
:53:32. > :53:39.this is about Wales and England but two different planning authorities.
:53:39. > :53:43.He doesn't think it is about cross- border issues. You have spent time
:53:43. > :53:48.waiting on a train in Birmingham while carrying out your
:53:48. > :53:56.investigation into cross-border issues. A happy two has spent with
:53:56. > :54:05.colleagues at Birmingham station! - - two hours. There is a huge
:54:05. > :54:10.sensitivity on wind projects. There's a touch a strong nerve with
:54:10. > :54:14.people. Having that mechanism and protocol between two planning
:54:14. > :54:21.authorities is important. Whatever the we take on Wynter their
:54:21. > :54:31.projects, I have a different view, but I in as practicalities involves
:54:31. > :54:31.
:54:31. > :54:37.a protocol. It is just the same with health and transportation.
:54:37. > :54:43.Wind farms, we saw hundreds of people outside the Assembly
:54:43. > :54:51.protesting against it, as far as you're concerned this is just
:54:51. > :54:56.another protest? It is no different. Always has a responsibility to take
:54:56. > :54:59.into account any application. It is their responsibility and I would
:54:59. > :55:04.like to see them in a position where they can make that decision.
:55:04. > :55:08.The biggest problems we have is the failure to make decisions at all.
:55:08. > :55:16.That is not helpful. Whatever side of the debate you are wrong they
:55:16. > :55:26.have to be decisions. We will leave it there. It is time now for the
:55:26. > :55:30.
:55:30. > :55:38.political stories of the week in 60 All four party leaders took part in
:55:38. > :55:42.a debate about the death of Baroness Thatcher. The First
:55:42. > :55:46.Minister and Andrew RT Davies attended the funeral service. There
:55:46. > :55:53.was government scheme to help homebuyers has been scrapped just
:55:53. > :55:58.weeks before it was due to start. There were separate plans announced
:55:58. > :56:02.by the UK Government. Clwyd South Assembly Member called for more
:56:02. > :56:06.support for ancient trees after the OFT believed to be the oldest tree
:56:06. > :56:11.in Britain collapsed in high winds. Local folklore suggests that she
:56:11. > :56:16.was spared when King Henry the second had his men cut down the
:56:16. > :56:26.woods in 1165. Cardiff MP Stephen Doughty and Kevin Brennan plays
:56:26. > :56:32.
:56:32. > :56:37.Cardiff City for their promotion to the Premier League.
:56:37. > :56:41.Mark Williams, you're in Westminster this week. You saw the
:56:41. > :56:45.impact of Baroness Thatcher's funeral. What did you think? I was
:56:45. > :56:49.not at the funeral. I had listened to some of the tributes. A
:56:49. > :56:55.controversial figure and was responsible for my enters into
:56:55. > :57:01.politics. I did that agree with her on that. That said, London was in a
:57:02. > :57:05.sombre mood on the day of the funeral. But I think people feel
:57:06. > :57:13.time is moving on, that ELWa despite what the Prime Minister
:57:13. > :57:19.said, -- that Era, despite what the Prime Minister said has moved on.
:57:19. > :57:26.London was a sad place on Wednesday. She was the first woman prime
:57:26. > :57:31.minister. Carwyn Jones said it was Mrs Thatcher who was responsible
:57:31. > :57:41.for him to go into politics. Were you on the chain bet on Tuesday was
:57:41. > :57:44.
:57:44. > :57:49.man yes, I was there. It is time to move on. We have got a different
:57:49. > :57:52.battle to fight. People know where the UK Government's stance. There
:57:52. > :57:57.will be a big choice of making a few years' time and I don't think
:57:57. > :58:06.people will be referencing back to Margaret Thatcher. Let's make a
:58:06. > :58:12.radical shift now. Your constituency colleague has been
:58:12. > :58:16.congratulating Cardiff City. I am delighted. Stephen Doughty is a
:58:16. > :58:22.season-ticket holder and has been since he was very young. It is
:58:22. > :58:27.fantastic news for Cardiff and for the wider area. I know perfectly
:58:27. > :58:32.well that more people care about Cardiff City than what I do in the
:58:32. > :58:39.Assembly. It is fantastic news for South Wales. 10% of the Premiership
:58:39. > :58:44.being Welsh is great news for us. insisted about the story with a
:58:44. > :58:48.tree. It reminds us that Natural Heritage in Wales is that the issue