:01:12. > :01:16.good council election result for Plaid Cymru and the independents but
:01:16. > :01:26.what about the UK Independence Party? Was the island of Anglesey a
:01:26. > :01:26.
:01:26. > :38:42.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2236 seconds
:38:42. > :38:46.the UK Independence Party picked up seats but failed to do so here. What
:38:46. > :38:53.can be done to strengthen Welsh journalism? I have been speaking to
:38:53. > :38:57.Professor Ian Hargreaves. Joining me throughout the programme are the
:38:57. > :39:02.UKIP MEP John Bufton and the Conservative MP Jonathan Evans. We
:39:02. > :39:07.will begin with the news overnight about the Deputy Speaker of the
:39:07. > :39:10.House of Commons, Nigel Evans, who has been arrested on suspicion of
:39:10. > :39:20.rape. We have had a statement from him
:39:20. > :39:22.
:39:22. > :39:29.this morning. What is your reaction to this news? I am shocked. Nigel is
:39:29. > :39:33.a friend of mine. We have to make it clear that there are no charges and
:39:33. > :39:37.Nigel is challenging these allegations. Everybody in
:39:37. > :39:43.Westminster has expressed their shock. Nigel Evans is a hugely
:39:43. > :39:48.popular figure, very gregarious and friends with everyone. He is warmly
:39:48. > :39:53.regarded by all political parties. People on the Labour side will be
:39:53. > :40:00.equally shocked and wanting to be equally supportive of him until the
:40:00. > :40:06.full facts are known. He has said that he is not going to be stepping
:40:07. > :40:11.down from the post of Deputy Speaker. Is that the rate decision?
:40:11. > :40:18.I think so. You are innocent until proven guilty so he has every right
:40:18. > :40:27.to stay on. We will be back with you shortly. The other big story is
:40:27. > :40:29.UKIP's performance in England. There was bad performances from the
:40:29. > :40:37.Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats and only a modest showing
:40:37. > :40:46.from Labour. Plaid Cymru had the biggest return of any party in
:40:46. > :40:56.Wales. UKIP failed to win a seat but had a higher proportion of the vote
:40:56. > :40:56.
:40:56. > :41:04.than the Conservatives. The UK the Independence party basked
:41:04. > :41:09.in the games. Anglesey, out of electoral sync with
:41:09. > :41:19.the other counties, humiliated two years ago when commissioners were
:41:19. > :41:23.
:41:23. > :41:28.sent in to run it. Now 30 councillors, ten fewer than before,
:41:28. > :41:38.were elected to new multimember wards. A chance to break with the
:41:38. > :41:39.
:41:39. > :41:45.past. The independents took 14 seats and Plaid Cymru 12. No one had
:41:45. > :41:51.overall control. Do you see yourself as part of a new group coming in to
:41:51. > :41:58.change things? Yes, there needs to be fair play for everyone and
:41:58. > :42:05.honesty. Whilst UKIP did well, unlike in England they did not
:42:05. > :42:15.capture seats there. This is a springboard for us and we will move
:42:15. > :42:23.
:42:23. > :42:32.forward. We are not an English, -- and English -only party. It was a
:42:32. > :42:42.disappointing election for the other main parties. No Conservatives at
:42:42. > :42:43.
:42:43. > :42:52.all and they finished behind UKIP. There is a sort of scattergun
:42:52. > :42:59.approach to voting going on in Britain. I remember when it used to
:42:59. > :43:07.be a 2-party system. Now we see these elections in England with UKIP
:43:07. > :43:14.doing remarkably well. We are really moving into an era of multi-party
:43:14. > :43:24.politics. That is very difficult to do in first past the post. The whole
:43:24. > :43:26.
:43:26. > :43:33.point about system is that it is to stop the Balkanisation of politics.
:43:33. > :43:36.In England, all the main parties haemorrhaged support the UKIP. The
:43:37. > :43:43.Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats suffered heavy losses and
:43:43. > :43:49.labour's progress was at best modest. Even though UKIP didn't win
:43:49. > :43:54.a seat in Anglesey, they feel they have made progress.
:43:54. > :44:04.We will deal with the wider performance of your party in a
:44:04. > :44:08.
:44:08. > :44:17.moment but let us deal with Anglesey. Anglesey is a difference
:44:17. > :44:24.situation altogether really. Are you disappointed you didn't manage to
:44:24. > :44:31.get a seat? We would have loved to have got a couple of seats but we
:44:31. > :44:35.worked very hard and we got 4500 votes so we did very well. It is a
:44:35. > :44:40.stepping stone. The difference between Anglesey and the rest of
:44:40. > :44:48.Wales, if we had elections in the rest of Wales I believe we would
:44:48. > :44:56.have done very well. UKIP polled more boats than your party. What do
:44:56. > :45:06.you think about that? It is very difficult to extrapolate anything
:45:06. > :45:10.
:45:10. > :45:15.from this result. Do but still expects to beat UKIP, would you not?
:45:15. > :45:22.The big thing about the national performance of UKIP is that they got
:45:22. > :45:28.over 20% so you would expect to see some impact in Anglesey. I
:45:28. > :45:37.anticipate that very many voters in Anglesey would have voted for the
:45:37. > :45:44.independents because there has been a long-standing tradition of that.
:45:44. > :45:49.We still do not know who is going to be running the county. The main
:45:49. > :45:54.lesson is that the election was held one year later because of
:45:54. > :46:00.unsatisfactory circumstances concerning the old council. I was
:46:00. > :46:07.pleased to see Nicola Roberts recognising the concerns of all the
:46:07. > :46:13.parties. We have to ensure that the shortcomings of the past are matters
:46:13. > :46:20.of the past. I very much hope that there is a better story to be told
:46:20. > :46:28.about the Anglesey council in the future. Let us wait in and out then.
:46:28. > :46:38.John Bufton, it has been widely held that last Thursday was a good day
:46:38. > :46:41.
:46:41. > :46:47.for your party but are you a national force? It was tremendous.
:46:47. > :46:54.Why are people voting for you? People are fed up with the main
:46:54. > :47:04.parties and they do not trust them any more. I think that David Cameron
:47:04. > :47:07.
:47:07. > :47:16.has missed in opportunity -- missed an opportunity. People have been
:47:16. > :47:26.very concerned and there is a lack of trust. You are going to have 29
:47:26. > :47:34.million Gideons and dominion allowed to come to the UK. -- Bulgarians and
:47:34. > :47:41.Romanians. We have asked the Conservatives for a number but they
:47:41. > :47:45.haven't given us a number. They probably don't know. They should
:47:45. > :47:51.come up with an estimate. People are concerned about this and there is
:47:51. > :48:01.nothing we can do about that until we leave the EU. That is the
:48:01. > :48:04.
:48:05. > :48:10.campaigning slogan that we had during the election. These elections
:48:10. > :48:14.were only held in areas that traditionally tends to be more
:48:14. > :48:22.conservative and turnout was very low. We are talking about fractions
:48:22. > :48:32.of votes for UKIP. It is all the difference in the world to replicate
:48:32. > :48:32.
:48:32. > :48:36.that in the general election. The Conservative party got almost ten
:48:36. > :48:45.times as many seats on the same day so we should not get things out of
:48:46. > :48:50.proportion. The reality is that UKIP has appealed to a number of voters.
:48:50. > :48:55.They are people who want the Conservative party to move more to
:48:55. > :49:05.the right to respond to this sort of thing we have just heard from John.
:49:05. > :49:08.
:49:08. > :49:18.We fought an election in 2005 West that immigration agenda. We fought a
:49:18. > :49:20.
:49:20. > :49:23.Euro-sceptic election in 2001 and lost both heavily. Of course it is a
:49:23. > :49:32.challenge for Conservatives to try to keep those people who would like
:49:32. > :49:36.us to be more right wing on-board, particularly mid-term. He is coming
:49:36. > :49:43.under pressure to make the shift to the right and bring forward any date
:49:43. > :49:52.for the referendum. What would you advise? I make no secret that I have
:49:52. > :50:02.always been pro-Europe. The worst thing we could do is luxury to the
:50:02. > :50:05.
:50:05. > :50:09.right. We have to maintain what we are doing. -- lurch to the right.
:50:09. > :50:14.The election is going to be one on the core economic question and I
:50:14. > :50:24.believe we should stick to that course so I appreciate what William
:50:24. > :50:27.
:50:27. > :50:33.Hague has said. Shifting to the right is a short-term and wrong
:50:33. > :50:36.analysis. It is not just a case of shifting to the right. The
:50:36. > :50:45.referendum David Cameron is offering is after the next general election
:50:45. > :50:55.so it is jam for tomorrow. The people are saying, we don't believe
:50:55. > :50:55.
:50:55. > :51:00.you. There is plenty of time to offer the referendum to the people
:51:00. > :51:05.but David Cameron has fudged it and used the coalition as a poor excuse
:51:05. > :51:12.for not doing it. What this highlights is that you are still a
:51:12. > :51:18.one issue party. We cover lots of other issues as well. But you
:51:18. > :51:25.haven't spoken about any of them. Get me a chance and I will. We have
:51:25. > :51:31.also been talking about our opposition to wind farms and other
:51:31. > :51:37.changes to do with climate change. We will examine those in debt at a
:51:37. > :51:47.later date. As the Welsh media as strong as it should be? Ian
:51:47. > :51:51.
:51:51. > :51:58.Hargreaves, the Professor of Digital Economy, discuss this in the Patrick
:51:59. > :52:04.Hannan Lecture. I asked him whether the quality of
:52:04. > :52:12.this new journalism would be of a standard and with it create more
:52:12. > :52:22.problems than it solves. Community journalism takes many different
:52:22. > :52:22.
:52:22. > :52:28.shapes and forms. There are good examples, in Port Talbot for example
:52:28. > :52:33.but there are also a lot of people who are not trained at all. We are
:52:34. > :52:40.in an experimental phase and we will discover what the value of this new
:52:40. > :52:45.community journalism is. What we can be sure of is that there is a lot of
:52:45. > :52:51.it and the technology makes it easy for people to get started. But the
:52:51. > :53:00.values and skills of professional journalism are still very important.
:53:00. > :53:07.They are very important but the statistic you mentioned was that
:53:07. > :53:17.Wales has 5% of population but only 2% of the journalists. How that
:53:17. > :53:19.
:53:19. > :53:25.grow? I don't know. I think Wales has a better chance in this new
:53:25. > :53:30.media configurations than in the old one. More than half of all the
:53:30. > :53:37.journalists are in London and the south-east. There is a concentration
:53:37. > :53:42.of media there. The attractive idea behind the new online community
:53:42. > :53:47.journalism is that it can be anywhere. So long as you have got
:53:47. > :53:51.the communications infrastructure, good mobile networks, decent
:53:51. > :53:59.broadband, people can do things that previously they haven't been able to
:53:59. > :54:05.do. It smacked that was your other point, Wales might not have those
:54:05. > :54:13.decent digital networks that are required. Wales has set out some
:54:13. > :54:19.ambitious targets for getting itself competitive quality infrastructure
:54:19. > :54:25.on broadband and other communication technologies by 2015 or 2016. What I
:54:25. > :54:29.am saying is that it is hugely important, even more important than
:54:29. > :54:35.the UK government minister saying that it is, because this is
:54:35. > :54:41.technology that can really work in Wales. We are never going to get a
:54:41. > :54:47.real that properly connects north and south, or fast roads, but we can
:54:47. > :54:55.make this technology work, despite of mountains and sparsely spread
:54:55. > :55:01.populations. Thank you. If you want to hear the Patrick Hannan Lecture,
:55:01. > :55:09.it is on BBC Radio Wales as we speak but don't turn over yet, you will be
:55:09. > :55:15.able to hear it on BBC iPlayer. Jonathan Evans, as someone who has
:55:15. > :55:23.served 20 years or so, do you see a change in the media? You get
:55:23. > :55:31.requests from more disparate outlets? First, let me say I am
:55:31. > :55:41.elated that there is a lecture named after Patrick Hannan who was an
:55:41. > :55:42.
:55:42. > :55:46.iconic figure throughout my political life. The reality is that
:55:46. > :55:56.the main print newspapers are all under the ownership of one group
:55:56. > :55:59.
:55:59. > :56:05.which supports one political group and gives only their viewpoint. The
:56:05. > :56:15.reality is that what we have been seeing as a whole range of new
:56:15. > :56:16.
:56:16. > :56:21.media. Cardiff City have just been promoted to the premiership.
:56:21. > :56:28.Sometimes I feel there is more political debate on the message
:56:28. > :56:34.boards than I see in the mainstream political media. I think it is
:56:34. > :56:39.hugely refreshing and particularly so for those of us who do not come
:56:39. > :56:48.from the dominant political party in Wales. We are on a BBC programme and
:56:48. > :56:53.we should be nice about the BBC but the reality is you are under an
:56:53. > :57:01.obligation to be balanced and we do not see that from other media
:57:01. > :57:07.outlets. I tend to disagree cause I have always found the Welsh press to
:57:07. > :57:14.be good and to be very fair to my party so I do not quite see that
:57:14. > :57:20.view that you have just portrayed. As far as the rural papers are
:57:20. > :57:28.concerned, they are very important because we got a local council
:57:28. > :57:32.elected in Anglesey last week and they need to watch their back. If
:57:32. > :57:40.these papers go out of business, people lose out. Not everybody is on
:57:40. > :57:46.the Internet. While we need an open house, we also need to protect the
:57:46. > :57:49.established media in Wales. I am very proud of what we have in Wales
:57:49. > :57:59.and I do not recognise what's Jonathan has said and think we
:57:59. > :58:01.
:58:01. > :58:07.should be road of what we have. -- proud of what we have. If we start
:58:07. > :58:14.to lose these papers, Wales will be a poorer place for it. We don't want
:58:14. > :58:23.the taxpayer being given the money. Time for a round-up of the weeks
:58:23. > :58:33.stories. The rules surrounding contacts
:58:33. > :58:33.
:58:33. > :58:43.between Assembly ministers and lobbyists needs to be looked at. The
:58:43. > :58:46.
:58:46. > :58:56.first minute -- the First Minister wrote to the Chancellor over the
:58:56. > :58:56.
:58:56. > :59:01.forthcoming Scottish referendum. Plaid Cymru MP Jonathan Edwards said
:59:01. > :59:06.that the economy needs to be rebalanced away from wealth in
:59:06. > :59:11.London and the south-east of England.
:59:11. > :59:15.A Conservative MP joins you kept saying that her party had lost its
:59:15. > :59:25.core issues. There were congratulations for the
:59:25. > :59:26.
:59:26. > :59:36.15 rugby players from Wales selected for the Lions.
:59:36. > :59:38.
:59:38. > :59:44.Not long now until the Lions tour. It has been a good year for Welsh
:59:45. > :59:54.sport. We have got Wrexham and Newport playing this afternoon for a
:59:54. > :00:01.place in the Football League. Is it good for the country's economy?
:00:01. > :00:09.sure it is. It is certainly good for the feelgood factor. Yesterday, when
:00:09. > :00:16.Hull were playing for qualification to the Premier League, it was
:00:16. > :00:22.described as a �100 million game. I have waited a long time for this
:00:22. > :00:30.moment. It is great but it will also be economically advantageous for the
:00:30. > :00:34.city. John, when you are going about your work in Brussels and
:00:34. > :00:41.Strasbourg, does it help raise the profile that there will now be two
:00:41. > :00:48.teams in the Premier League? Absolutely. It puts Swansea on the
:00:48. > :00:53.map and Wales on the map. And Cardiff have the parades today which
:00:53. > :01:01.is fantastic. The money that comes in from all the spin-offs, you can't
:01:01. > :01:06.beat it. It is huge for Wales and is going to be a huge income for the