30/06/2013

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:01:06. > :01:11.Following the resignation of Leighton Andrews, Huw Lewis is in

:01:11. > :01:21.charge of education. We look at some of the issues he'll face in one of

:01:21. > :01:21.

:01:21. > :33:22.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1921 seconds

:33:22. > :33:25.the most challenging jobs in Following the dramatic resignation

:33:25. > :33:29.of Leighton Andrew from the Welsh Government, we'll look at some of

:33:29. > :33:32.the challenges facing the new Education Minister, Huw Lewis.

:33:32. > :33:34.And as we await the UK Government's response to recommendations that

:33:34. > :33:40.ministers in Cardiff be given tax-varying powers, I've been

:33:40. > :33:42.speaking to the man who's commission is making those recommendations.

:33:42. > :33:52.Joining me throughout today's programme are the Labour AM David

:33:52. > :33:56.Rees and the Liberal Democrat MP Jenny Willott.

:33:56. > :34:03.We are few days the Spending Review. We have had a few days to consider

:34:03. > :34:08.its implications. The Welsh government says the real terms cut

:34:08. > :34:14.of 2% in the budget is extremely disappointing. How do you respond to

:34:14. > :34:18.that? Wales has come out of this Spending Review much better than

:34:18. > :34:22.almost any other part of government. It has been protected quite

:34:22. > :34:27.significantly by the fact the Westminster government has protected

:34:27. > :34:31.spending on health and education. Labour have accepted the overall

:34:31. > :34:36.amount the government is cutting but would not have protected health and

:34:36. > :34:44.education. Had they been in power, the cut to the watch assembly budget

:34:44. > :34:53.would have been far deeper. I am relieved how well Wales has done.

:34:53. > :35:00.Wales has done well. In real terms we have lost �1.6 billion since

:35:00. > :35:10.2010. The coalition is setting the budget and we have got to

:35:10. > :35:12.

:35:12. > :35:16.acknowledge that. We are seeing dramatic reductions. So the

:35:16. > :35:20.implication as you see it, the narrative often is not from the

:35:20. > :35:25.Welsh government that they can only deal with what the UK government

:35:25. > :35:31.gives them. Do you think that is a thin narrative? That is the budget

:35:31. > :35:36.we have. We have also got a look at how we can respond to some of the

:35:36. > :35:40.other actions the government takes. The cuts to the welfare, the custody

:35:40. > :35:48.and employed, the cuts to the people who are going to be in the most

:35:48. > :35:53.vulnerable positions, we have got to respond to those. It is clearly a

:35:53. > :35:57.very difficult financial times. The priority is to clear up the mess

:35:57. > :36:02.that was left in 2010 and that has meant some very difficult choices.

:36:02. > :36:05.The whole of the UK is affected by these cuts but there is a lot more

:36:05. > :36:12.the Welsh government could be doing with the budget they have two attack

:36:12. > :36:15.people, create jobs and build skills in the economy. We will deal with

:36:15. > :36:18.more Welsh government news in a moment.

:36:19. > :36:21.There's a big week ahead for the new Education Minister, Huw Lewis, as he

:36:21. > :36:25.introduces his first piece of education legislation in the chamber

:36:25. > :36:29.and makes a statement on the new exam regulator. Those are just two

:36:29. > :36:31.of the issues in his ministerial in-tray as he begins one of the most

:36:31. > :36:36.challenging jobs in government following the shock resignation of

:36:36. > :36:40.Leighton Andrews. Brian Meechan's been finding out more.

:36:40. > :36:44.As a former teacher, Huw Lewis may be able to bring his direct

:36:44. > :36:49.experience of schools to his new role. That may be useful as he has

:36:49. > :36:53.little time to get on top of his brief. The Welsh government had to

:36:53. > :36:57.intervene in six council areas because the schools needed extra

:36:57. > :37:00.attention. The special measures range from providing an action plan

:37:00. > :37:05.to sending in commissioners to take over the running of the education

:37:05. > :37:10.department. Huw Lewis will need to decide how to respond to review

:37:10. > :37:16.which calls for the 22 education services in Wales to be cut by a

:37:16. > :37:21.third in favour of larger, regional management groups. The general

:37:21. > :37:25.consensus is that 22 is too many. We need to have a more streamlined

:37:25. > :37:32.process but there has to be local accountability. We have seen the

:37:32. > :37:35.work of the consortia in recent years as well. They are still in

:37:35. > :37:42.their infancy and we need to make sure that they have the chance to

:37:42. > :37:46.work. David Evans has been campaigning with the union this week

:37:46. > :37:49.against the UK government's policies. The teaching unions often

:37:50. > :37:57.find themselves with the Welsh government's approach to education

:37:57. > :38:02.in recent years. Ministers have responded with the banding of

:38:02. > :38:07.schools to allow better monitoring and the reintroduction of testing

:38:07. > :38:15.young children. David Evans wants to see some changes. Everyone wants the

:38:15. > :38:20.best. The results are not the be all and end all. While schools formed

:38:20. > :38:25.the bedrock of the portfolio, further and higher education are key

:38:25. > :38:29.economic drivers which need to occupy Huw Lewis's attention. Senior

:38:29. > :38:38.figures from universities say the Minister needs to support them in

:38:38. > :38:44.reforming the system to allow them to compete internationally. There

:38:44. > :38:50.are areas like chemicals and physics were high costs are associated.

:38:50. > :38:56.English universities currently get about �1500 per student more.

:38:56. > :39:01.Welsh government capped tuition fees at �3500 wherever they choose to

:39:01. > :39:07.study in the UK. I can see that is a good policy for students to one

:39:07. > :39:16.domicile in Wales. Unfortunately, the Welsh government ends up funding

:39:16. > :39:22.English universities. What I would like to see is a review of tuition

:39:22. > :39:26.fee policy. The former Education Minister cut the number of

:39:26. > :39:30.universities from 11 down to eight through mergers. His successor will

:39:30. > :39:35.have to decide whether to continue on that route or whether that is

:39:35. > :39:39.enough of a reduction. Leighton Andrews was criticised by some for

:39:39. > :39:45.having a no-nonsense style which at times bordered on the abrasive.

:39:45. > :39:48.Others will argue that he got a grip of an education system which was

:39:48. > :39:53.underperforming in key areas. Opposition parties are looking at

:39:53. > :39:57.whether the new minister will have a different style. He has been a very

:39:57. > :40:02.different type of minister in his previous jobs so we are waiting to

:40:02. > :40:07.see whether he can continue that work. The danger might be that the

:40:07. > :40:13.people who have been herded together like cats will now start to scatter

:40:13. > :40:19.and we will not see that delivery. We have not seen the improvement in

:40:19. > :40:23.the standards despite the activity. 50%. Secondary school children

:40:23. > :40:27.failing in numerous ER levels. We have had six by rector generals in

:40:27. > :40:33.seven years of the Department. We have got a relatively inexperienced

:40:33. > :40:38.deputy minister as well. Carwyn Jones has given Huw Lewis the role

:40:38. > :40:47.of tidying up an education system that is in a state of flux. All eyes

:40:47. > :40:52.will be on the new minister as he makes his first moves.

:40:52. > :40:57.David, before you became an Assembly Member, you have a background in

:40:57. > :41:02.education. Maybe you should have been considered for the job. But

:41:02. > :41:06.this ministerial change was not predicted. It has given interested

:41:06. > :41:10.parties an opportunity to lobby the new minister to try and unpick the

:41:10. > :41:17.bits they did not like about Leighton Andrews. Could that

:41:17. > :41:20.destabilise the government policy? don't think so. Huw Lewis will

:41:20. > :41:30.continue the policies laid down by the government under Leighton

:41:30. > :41:36.Andrews. Is he right to do that?He is right to do that. We put forward

:41:36. > :41:41.policies in our manifesto and he will continue to drive that. What do

:41:41. > :41:45.you make of this resignation and do you think it will have more of an

:41:45. > :41:50.impact on the government's education policy or on the dynamic of the

:41:50. > :41:57.Labour backbenches? I think it could be quite interesting in both areas

:41:57. > :42:01.but I hope it does mean that there is a significant change in focus on

:42:01. > :42:06.standards in Wales. Wales has fallen very disappointingly behind in the

:42:06. > :42:12.gap between English pupils and Welsh pupils. Leighton Andrews was

:42:12. > :42:19.committed to raising standards. Wales has fallen backwards over the

:42:19. > :42:24.last few years. We need to see that turned around. Wales has got to

:42:24. > :42:29.improve. We have got to go back up the rankings because otherwise we

:42:29. > :42:34.are letting down the young people of Wales. They are not reaching their

:42:34. > :42:39.potential and that is not fair. Let's address the tuition fees

:42:39. > :42:46.debate. A call for a review of the policy. Your party had its own

:42:47. > :42:52.troubles with tuition fees and you voted against the government. Do you

:42:53. > :42:58.agree that the situation in Wales should be reviewed? It definitely

:42:58. > :43:02.needs to be reviewed. There is a lot of money going from Wales to English

:43:02. > :43:06.universities as the report said. There has been a significant gap in

:43:06. > :43:12.funding for a very long time now. It was a problem before the assembly

:43:12. > :43:15.was established and it is getting worse every year. We have some

:43:16. > :43:21.fantastic -- universities in Wales and they need to be able to produce

:43:21. > :43:26.the results they are capable of. will not take any lessons from the

:43:26. > :43:31.Liberal Democrats on tuition fees. We are supporting Welsh young people

:43:31. > :43:36.to get the best opportunities possible. That sometimes has to be

:43:37. > :43:42.in institutions across the border. We are helping our young people get

:43:42. > :43:46.the best start in their lives. how do you suggest the suggestion

:43:46. > :43:51.that, essentially, the Welsh government is funding universities

:43:51. > :43:57.in England at the expense of universities in Wales? The answer

:43:57. > :44:02.is, if we follows a policy of the UK government, the UK government

:44:02. > :44:06.stopped funding institutions by 80%. We are looking to support our young

:44:06. > :44:11.people to go into higher education wherever they feel there are the

:44:11. > :44:15.best courses and the best opportunities for them. But when

:44:15. > :44:18.someone like the vice chancellor of Cardiff University says it should be

:44:18. > :44:25.reviewed, shouldn't the Welsh government at least sit down and

:44:25. > :44:33.listen? Anyone who is funded by the Welsh government will seek to raise

:44:33. > :44:37.questions. I mention the change in the dynamic within the Labour group.

:44:37. > :44:41.Leighton Andrews is considered by many to be the brightest minister

:44:41. > :44:45.now start on your backbenches. Do you think you will be sitting

:44:45. > :44:49.quietly? I look forward to him joining us on the backbenches

:44:49. > :44:56.because it will give him a chance to attack the opposition as a

:44:56. > :45:01.backbencher. Will it be harmonious on the backbenches with him? People

:45:01. > :45:08.know he is committed fully to the Welsh government. Going forward, we

:45:08. > :45:14.have got Huw Lewis as a minister. He has been in government. Choosing

:45:14. > :45:18.him, he has got a background in education, I think he was Deputy

:45:18. > :45:21.Education Minister years ago. Is he the right choice? I am less

:45:21. > :45:26.concerned about who it is and more concerned about what they do in

:45:26. > :45:30.their job. I disagree with what David has said about tuition fees

:45:30. > :45:32.and about the way we need to Mitchell our universities are

:45:32. > :45:37.protected in terms of their funding and they don't fall further behind

:45:37. > :45:44.English institutions. But what they do in terms of bringing up standards

:45:44. > :45:50.in schools is going to be incredibly important. And is he the right man

:45:50. > :45:54.for the job? He has knowledge and history of the education system and

:45:54. > :45:58.he will drive it forward. He is very passionate about education and

:45:58. > :46:00.making sure people from poorer backgrounds get the best

:46:00. > :46:03.opportunities. We went into last week's Spending

:46:03. > :46:05.Review knowing that the UK Government would not meet its own

:46:05. > :46:10.deadline on responding to a report that recommended ministers in

:46:10. > :46:13.Cardiff be given tax-varying powers. Welsh Secretary David Jones had said

:46:13. > :46:20.his government's view on the Silk Commission report would be given in

:46:20. > :46:24.the near future, but not before the end of spring, as had been promised.

:46:24. > :46:28.Led by the former assembly Clark, Paul Silk, the commission was set up

:46:28. > :46:32.as part of the coalition agreement between the code -- conservatives

:46:33. > :46:36.and the Liberal Democrats. The first part of the review looked at the

:46:36. > :46:40.financial powers of the assembly and now they are looking at the other

:46:40. > :46:44.powers. I met up with Paul Silk and asked him whether he was surprised

:46:44. > :46:51.that the UK government had not yet responded to his first report on

:46:51. > :46:55.finance. I think there will be a response imminently. It is not very

:46:55. > :47:01.far away. It always takes some time when there is a cobbler set of

:47:01. > :47:06.recommendations by typical -- different government departments. I

:47:07. > :47:11.am not surprised it had taken some time. The summer recess is coming

:47:11. > :47:21.up. You plan to publish your next report in the spring. How does your

:47:21. > :47:24.workload look bit dinner to that? -- building up to that? We will be

:47:24. > :47:29.concluding our evidence taking in the early autumn and then our job is

:47:29. > :47:34.to think about the evidence we have had, to talk about it between

:47:34. > :47:39.ourselves, to think where we come to a common view and were, in this

:47:39. > :47:44.process, there are some differences and whether there is something we

:47:44. > :47:48.can do to resolve those differences in a way we can all agree upon. One

:47:48. > :47:54.of the strengths of our first report and one of the reasons I hope it

:47:54. > :47:58.will be found acceptable to the UK government was that all members of

:47:58. > :48:02.the commission were prepared to endorse it and that led to the

:48:02. > :48:07.assembly unanimously endorsing it as well. There is a lot of strength

:48:08. > :48:11.that comes first the ball from having all four parties represented

:48:11. > :48:18.on the commission but also from a consensus report. I don't think

:48:18. > :48:23.anyone can say it is not say anything at all but quite radical

:48:23. > :48:28.things were said in the first report despite having a consensus. I hope

:48:28. > :48:35.we can do the same in part two. have compiled a substantial report.

:48:35. > :48:39.As a former senior civil servant, ego does not come into it, but will

:48:39. > :48:45.you be disappointed if all of these recommendations are not taken on

:48:45. > :48:51.board by the UK government? course I would be. When we look at

:48:51. > :48:57.what the response is, I hope, because we produced our report as a

:48:57. > :49:00.package, we would like it all to be accepted as a package. It may be

:49:00. > :49:05.that one or two elements, they may be good reason why the UK government

:49:05. > :49:10.will not want to go along with them, and if they explain those reasons

:49:10. > :49:19.well, I don't think I will be so disappointed. We don't necessarily

:49:19. > :49:22.expect everything we recommend to be taken up line and sinker. But we

:49:22. > :49:27.came up with a package we thought hanged together very well and we

:49:27. > :49:33.would like to see the whole of that package accepted.

:49:33. > :49:37.We have had plenty of hints from the UK government that this response is

:49:37. > :49:45.imminent but it has taken longer than they said it would. That is not

:49:45. > :49:50.good news. It has left it hanging in the air. I am an eternal optimist

:49:50. > :49:54.and I think the longer we wait, the better the chance we have of it

:49:54. > :49:59.agreeing with the commissioner and devolving more powers to the

:49:59. > :50:08.assembly. I hope we will see it soon. I have no inside track on it.

:50:08. > :50:18.But I am an optimist. David, are you an optimist? We were told it would

:50:18. > :50:19.

:50:19. > :50:22.be done by spring. That has come and gone. Not in Westminster terms.It

:50:22. > :50:28.is interesting to see that Westminster defines terms

:50:28. > :50:31.differently than we all do. It says imminent, when his imminent? If we

:50:31. > :50:39.are not careful, we will have part two out before part one has even

:50:39. > :50:44.been discussed. Paul Silk said that he and the commissioners would be

:50:44. > :50:50.disappointed if the UK government did not take on-board most, if not

:50:50. > :50:55.all of the recommendations. What is your recommendation or expectation?

:50:55. > :51:02.I would hope they would take on the recommendations. We all know about

:51:02. > :51:11.the need for borrowing powers. The other forms of taxation could be

:51:11. > :51:15.expanded. There are ways forward. Danny Alexander and George Osborne

:51:15. > :51:21.are saying positive things this week, certainly about the M4 relief

:51:21. > :51:24.road and tying that into the government's response on the Silk

:51:24. > :51:30.Commission. That suggests it is needed as quickly as possible so

:51:30. > :51:34.that these kind of projects can get moving. There is a fair amount of

:51:34. > :51:37.negotiating going on behind-the-scenes. My understanding

:51:37. > :51:43.is there is a lot of conversations going on to pave the way for

:51:43. > :51:52.different things. I agree with David. I want to see it happening as

:51:52. > :51:55.soon as possible. But it is also important that it is right. A couple

:51:55. > :52:01.of weeks longer, if it means we get the right result, it is worth

:52:01. > :52:06.waiting. This commission is split into two parts and evidence is being

:52:06. > :52:11.taken at the moment on part two in terms of the assembly's powers going

:52:11. > :52:17.forward. If you were invited to give evidence, what would you tell the

:52:17. > :52:25.Silk Commission? It is quite clear where we want to go with more

:52:25. > :52:31.devolved powers and more like the Scottish equality situation. I spoke

:52:31. > :52:34.to Paul Silk about that and he said it was not official evidence.

:52:34. > :52:37.not official evidence but it is important that these are people who

:52:37. > :52:41.are going to be implementing any part.

:52:41. > :52:51.Time now for a quick look back at some of the political stories of the

:52:51. > :52:53.

:52:53. > :52:55.week in 60 seconds. With new ministerial jobs for Huw

:52:55. > :53:00.Lewis and Jeff Cuthbert and promotions fought for getting and

:53:00. > :53:05.Ken Skates, Angela Burns was disappointed that they were not any

:53:05. > :53:09.new women brought into the Welsh government. Then UK government

:53:09. > :53:13.announced a new �250 million super prison would be built in North

:53:13. > :53:23.Wales. An exact location has not been decided yet but it is expected

:53:23. > :53:27.to house up to 2000 inmates. To selected candidates for the Anglesey

:53:27. > :53:37.by-election. Plaid Cymru chose Rhun ap Iorwerth who has been a news

:53:37. > :53:40.presenter for BBC Wales until recently. Labour chose Tal Michael.

:53:40. > :53:44.And the first minister ordered a full investigation into why Big

:53:44. > :53:51.Ideas Wales, a Welsh government website, provided advice to young

:53:52. > :53:59.people on how to become strippers and how to set up escort agencies.

:53:59. > :54:04.David, let's look ahead. Tuesday afternoon, you and your fellow

:54:04. > :54:10.Assembly Members will be talking about the organ transplant bill, the

:54:11. > :54:14.final stage. What do you hope will happen on Tuesday? I hope it will

:54:14. > :54:21.pass on Tuesday. The Minister has brought forward some amendments

:54:21. > :54:27.which will relieve the situation of concerns raised. It should pass on

:54:28. > :54:32.Tuesday and look for Royal assent. What is your take on this Bill?

:54:32. > :54:37.think it will be very interesting to see it passed into law. It has been

:54:37. > :54:41.a very slow process. It is quite clear that the majority of people

:54:41. > :54:46.want to see it come into law and it will be very interesting for the

:54:46. > :54:50.rest of the UK to see what impact it has on transplant rates in Wales.

:54:50. > :54:56.While David and his colleagues will be debating this on Tuesday, you

:54:56. > :55:02.will be debating the Finance Bill this week and you could possibly go

:55:02. > :55:06.on until three a.m. In the morning. It is the only legislation which is

:55:06. > :55:11.not usually timetabled in Parliament so it can be all night. I am hoping

:55:11. > :55:17.we are not as late as we has been in previous years but I have a very

:55:17. > :55:21.comfortable armchair in my office. Let's touch on the advice on

:55:21. > :55:27.becoming strippers and escort agencies on a website supported by

:55:27. > :55:34.the Welsh government. Are you surprised about that? It is not the

:55:34. > :55:40.first time it has happened. There have been job advertised for lap

:55:40. > :55:43.dances. We need it sure this does happen again. They should be a no

:55:43. > :55:53.tolerance policy of any work of that sort anywhere on government