:01:15. > :01:18.the shadow Welsh Secretary Owen Smith as Ed Miliband says he wants
:01:18. > :01:28.to mend Labour's relationship with the unions - not end it - in the
:01:28. > :01:28.
:01:28. > :37:35.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2166 seconds
:37:35. > :37:39.Wales we hear from the Health Minister at the end of a week he's
:37:40. > :37:43.called historic and what's the future direction for farm subsidies.
:37:43. > :37:45.But first, the Labour leader, Ed Miliband, says he wants to mend his
:37:46. > :37:49.party's relationship with the unions, not end it, in the row
:37:50. > :37:54.that's blown up about selecting a candidate in Falkirk. Labour have
:37:54. > :37:57.called in the police to investigate alleged irregularities. The Unite
:37:57. > :38:01.union has been accused of trying to pack the selection process with its
:38:01. > :38:04.members which it has dismissed as a smear. Earlier, the former Labour
:38:04. > :38:13.Minister Kim Howells said Labour couldn't be seen to be being fixed
:38:13. > :38:17.by union bosses. I think it is a huge exaggeration
:38:17. > :38:22.anyway, that it is very, very difficult for the unions to do that
:38:22. > :38:28.kind of thing. Within the Labour Party, there is a resolution to stop
:38:28. > :38:31.them doing it. Ed Miliband has to be seen to be above this and seem to be
:38:31. > :38:34.completely in control of the party and he has to make sure it never
:38:35. > :38:37.happens again. It will be a tough job but I think he is probably
:38:37. > :38:42.capable. Joining me from our Cardiff newsroom
:38:42. > :38:48.is the current MP for Pontypridd and shadow Welsh Secretary, Owen Smith.
:38:48. > :38:52.Good morning. This story is not going away. It has been running for
:38:52. > :38:57.more than a week. What damage is it doing to your party's chances of
:38:57. > :39:02.winning the election in 2015? I think Kim Howells had it right a
:39:02. > :39:05.minute ago. He said it was being blown out of proportion and it is an
:39:05. > :39:10.exaggeration. I think the prospect this will have any real, meaningful
:39:10. > :39:16.outcome on the election in 2015 is even more fanciful. Let's be clear.
:39:16. > :39:21.We have a problem in Falkirk. That much is evident. I have not seen the
:39:21. > :39:25.litigation report that has been handed to the police but Ed
:39:25. > :39:30.Miliband. Decisively with this issue and has suspended the party and the
:39:30. > :39:33.individuals responsible. He has now handed the matter over to the police
:39:33. > :39:36.and I don't think we could have acted more properly or decisively
:39:36. > :39:40.and if there were other instances for in Britain about this sort of
:39:40. > :39:48.improper behaviour, we would act decisively about that as well.
:39:48. > :39:52.But that would mean that damage hasn't been done?
:39:52. > :39:57.I am telling you clearly that I don't think it will. Our opponents
:39:57. > :40:02.will often help that it will force some in the party to make as do
:40:02. > :40:07.something about our nature of the relationship with the unions. It is
:40:07. > :40:13.one of the big strengths of the party it is rooted in communities
:40:13. > :40:16.and real people's lives through the union movement and through our
:40:16. > :40:20.attachment to the unions. The unions gave birth to the Labour Party, if
:40:20. > :40:27.you like, and we don't intend to spoil a great relationship.
:40:27. > :40:30.That relationship, I think, needs to change. We know that Ed Miliband has
:40:30. > :40:34.called Ken Livingstone over the weekend to make sure the link
:40:34. > :40:38.continues but in what form? I think it will continue in the
:40:38. > :40:43.strong form at which it currently exists. We may need to have some
:40:43. > :40:47.sort of reform in the nature of that relationship. Harriet Harman is
:40:47. > :40:51.suggesting that perhaps one of the reforms would be selection procedure
:40:51. > :40:57.so that we limit the amount of money anyone can spend on getting selected
:40:58. > :41:03.in this seat. That would take out of the equation the prospect of people
:41:03. > :41:06.having union many used to get them selected but in reality, selections
:41:06. > :41:10.go on in the Labour Party all the time. Yesterday the Labour Party
:41:10. > :41:15.selected a counsellor to be our prospective MP in the Vale of
:41:15. > :41:19.Glamorgan. Last week the selected a teacher here in Cardiff to be our
:41:19. > :41:23.respect and candidate for Cardiff North. That is the everyday, mundane
:41:23. > :41:29.reality of selections in the Labour Party and it is fanciful to suggest
:41:29. > :41:36.that Falkirks happen all over the place, all the time. It is not true.
:41:36. > :41:40.Stay with us. Glyn Davies, Owen Smith suggested there that this
:41:40. > :41:44.won't have any impact on the 2015 election campaign but it will if
:41:44. > :41:49.your party has anything to do with it, will it?
:41:49. > :41:53.Perhaps it is too soon to say what will happen in 2015. I don't think
:41:53. > :41:58.anyone should let it lie. I don't think the Labour Party MPs should
:41:58. > :42:01.let it lie. We have seen Labour Party MPs themselves being
:42:01. > :42:07.incredibly worried about what is going on in Falkirk. I think Ed
:42:07. > :42:09.Miliband was very slow out of the box to deal with this. There is an
:42:09. > :42:14.element of orchestrating a row with the unions, I think, for electoral
:42:14. > :42:18.purposes. Change the public view of the Labour Party. I think we all
:42:18. > :42:26.want people to fight elections that are there because they are thought
:42:26. > :42:31.to be the best people to carry the party flag. No doubt the Unite union
:42:31. > :42:37.influence is that is far wider than anybody thought.
:42:37. > :42:41.Dafydd Elis-Thomas, you were in the house in the 70s when the unions had
:42:41. > :42:46.a tight grip on the Labour Party. What has changed since then?
:42:46. > :42:53.And I then paid the political levy. I didn't get any money back towards
:42:53. > :42:57.eight Plaid Cymru campaign in Dwyfor Meirionnydd. I see the relationship
:42:57. > :43:02.between the unions and the political parties as essential to what happens
:43:02. > :43:06.in democracy throughout Europe. In the mainland tradition, there are
:43:06. > :43:14.different unions with different parties. I think we have to move to
:43:14. > :43:18.a situation of greater primitivism and there should be more freedom for
:43:18. > :43:21.trade union members and activists to be able to support different
:43:21. > :43:25.political candidates in different situations and I don't think this
:43:25. > :43:28.should be a monopoly for the Labour Party. What should not happen is
:43:28. > :43:33.that trade union members should be automatically signed up into
:43:33. > :43:38.membership of a political party. When Smith, Glyn Davies suggested
:43:38. > :43:44.that Ed Miliband had been slow to react on this. Give us your
:43:44. > :43:48.thoughts? Ed Miliband did what he always does.
:43:48. > :43:53.He acts decisively. It has been a hallmark of his leadership and his
:43:53. > :43:57.campaign for the leadership. We know there is a problem in Falkirk and we
:43:57. > :44:00.looked at the evidence and Ed Miliband responded extremely
:44:00. > :44:05.strongly and decisively. I don't think he could have done any more
:44:05. > :44:08.and if there were incidences as well, I think he would respond
:44:08. > :44:14.similarly strongly. The reality is that while the Tories may wish it,
:44:14. > :44:19.it is not true and Falkirk does looks to me as a one-off incident
:44:19. > :44:21.and we need to move forward and put this behind us and continue the
:44:22. > :44:26.strong and powerful relationship between the Labour Party and trade
:44:26. > :44:29.unions. Are you satisfied that your leader
:44:29. > :44:32.has nipped it in the bud? Yes.
:44:32. > :44:35.Thank you for joining us. The Agriculture Minister says he wants
:44:35. > :44:38.to create a "transparent and fair" system of farming subsidies. Alun
:44:38. > :44:42.Davies said payments had to strike a balance between supporting farmers
:44:42. > :44:46.in different parts of Wales. He'll make a statement on reforms to the
:44:46. > :44:48.EU's common agricultural policy this week. It comes after hill farmers
:44:48. > :44:52.lost one of their subsidies this year and criticised the Welsh
:44:52. > :45:00.Government's response to the heavy snow that fell in the spring. Daniel
:45:00. > :45:08.Davies reports. Summer is here and the cold winter
:45:08. > :45:13.seems to be a distant memory but for this farmer who farms the hills
:45:13. > :45:16.overlooking the Romney Valley on the back of the neck and becomes -- in
:45:16. > :45:20.the Brecon Beacons, it looks like a harsh winter.
:45:20. > :45:25.We won't see that until the sales are completed in the autumn but
:45:25. > :45:30.because of the weather, we have a lesser product to sell because the
:45:30. > :45:34.winter took it told. As the snow fell, costs rose. This
:45:34. > :45:38.was the scene on another farm in North Wales. Farmers appealed for
:45:38. > :45:44.help while their sheep and lambs died but they weren't happy with the
:45:44. > :45:47.response they got. Upland pharmacy to get the cheque at
:45:47. > :45:51.the start of spring called Tir Mynydd. It was a subsidy under the
:45:51. > :45:57.common agricultural policy. The Welsh government has changed system
:45:57. > :46:01.and this year there was no Tir Mynydd payment. Farmers say that
:46:01. > :46:05.happened at the worst possible time. It is now, following the winter, it
:46:05. > :46:11.has not arrived. We have had an extreme weather pattern which
:46:11. > :46:18.obviously affected us. You look back and you think, that money hasn't
:46:18. > :46:22.paid the bills that they've normally do but we have also got extra ones
:46:22. > :46:27.because of the winter. The farming Minister, Alun Davies,
:46:27. > :46:32.relaxed the rules so farmers could bury livestock. He made sure another
:46:32. > :46:36.subsidy was paid early but it wasn't enough, say the farming unions. Hill
:46:36. > :46:41.farmers in other parts of the UK still got their payments. If their
:46:41. > :46:47.farms were on less favoured areas. What farmers say that has put them
:46:47. > :46:51.at a disadvantage but ministers are resolute and say most farmers get a
:46:51. > :46:55.good deal from the Welsh government. Mr Davies is now signalling more
:46:55. > :46:59.changes on the way for farming subsidies. Last month, EU
:47:00. > :47:03.negotiators agreed reforms to the common agricultural policy. The
:47:03. > :47:08.Minister will make a statement on it this week and says it will start a
:47:08. > :47:11.process of designing a new payment system that he calls transparent and
:47:11. > :47:15.fair. Whatever system we have, we want to
:47:15. > :47:19.minimise the winners and losers to minimise the disruption. We want to
:47:19. > :47:23.ensure that the payment system we have in Wales maintains the
:47:23. > :47:29.integrity in the rural economy and we want to see a payment system that
:47:29. > :47:32.ensures that there are payments to our most pride of communities in
:47:32. > :47:37.Upland Wales so they secure the future and develop the business of
:47:37. > :47:43.agriculture whilst at the same time, not undermining the economic
:47:43. > :47:46.integrity of people who are farming in the low lands of Wales as well.
:47:46. > :47:48.Mr Davies has traded blows over the fate of farming with his opponents
:47:48. > :47:52.in the Assembly. They are waiting for his next move.
:47:52. > :47:56.We need clarity from the minister about what he intends to do about
:47:57. > :48:00.the situation. If he feels they have got it wrong in 2013, they need to
:48:00. > :48:03.admit that and they need to come forward quickly with an alternative
:48:03. > :48:07.plan. As he said, farms and businesses need stability and they
:48:08. > :48:11.need to be able to plan. Without clear direction from the Welsh
:48:11. > :48:16.government about what support is available, I fear that for some
:48:16. > :48:20.businesses, it may be too late. Agriculture employs 15,000 people in
:48:20. > :48:24.Wales and makes up around 1% of the economy. This did Davies says he
:48:24. > :48:29.wants the industry to stand on its feet instead of relying so heavily
:48:29. > :48:34.on subsidies. Farmers may well agree but that has done nothing to soothe
:48:34. > :48:37.their prickly relationship with the Welsh government.
:48:37. > :48:40.Dafydd Elis-Thomas, there is a suggestion that the relationship
:48:40. > :48:45.between the Welsh government and farmers is not great as a result of
:48:45. > :48:48.the poor weather. The Minister suggests that he proposes
:48:48. > :48:51.transparent and fair payments, will that do anything to get the farmers
:48:51. > :48:57.back onside? It is not as bad as the relationship
:48:57. > :49:03.with the UK farming Minister and the NFU in England. What will happen
:49:03. > :49:07.here now is that the minister has to respond to the agreement we have
:49:07. > :49:11.got. Huge condiment to the Irish president in the European Union for
:49:12. > :49:15.having done that in the last six months. What is important now is
:49:15. > :49:21.whatever is established in Wales relates to and fits into that. The
:49:21. > :49:24.Tir Mynydd payment was abolished by a previous minister in the
:49:24. > :49:29.government, Alan Jones. The reason for that is it was not compliant
:49:29. > :49:33.with the way we saw the European policy progressing. There are issues
:49:33. > :49:39.about how the payments are transferred between the direct
:49:39. > :49:42.subsidy payments and those that go to other aspects of policy. There is
:49:42. > :49:46.the green direction. I was relieved to hear the minister said just now
:49:46. > :49:52.that he did not want to complicated things and create hardship. That is
:49:52. > :49:57.a signal to me that he is going to use the cut-off point, which is 60%
:49:57. > :50:06.of the average payment in Wales, to maintain or farming incomes at that
:50:06. > :50:08.level. I look forward to the statement on Tuesday.
:50:08. > :50:13.Politicians are experts at Reading between the lines. What did you take
:50:13. > :50:17.from what he just said? I welcome what I heard Alun Davies
:50:17. > :50:21.saying. He intends to strike a better balance than we have now
:50:21. > :50:25.between Upland farming and lowland farming, which I think is right. We
:50:25. > :50:31.will have to wait and see the detail of that but what we have now is a
:50:31. > :50:35.significant debate about how we fit in the CAP agreement. That is going
:50:35. > :50:38.to be quite an issue in England, I must say. I have meetings lined up
:50:38. > :50:42.with the NFU and the Minister to talk this through in England because
:50:42. > :50:47.we are going through a period of potential significant change.
:50:47. > :50:52.We know the relationship. We saw some farmers talking about a meeting
:50:52. > :50:55.they held with Alun Davies. They didn't storm out, they walked
:50:55. > :51:02.out in orderly fashion. I was chairing the meeting.
:51:02. > :51:05.They left the meeting, didn't they? Actually, they came back.
:51:05. > :51:08.There was an issue and I try not to comment about whatever happens in
:51:08. > :51:18.the Assembly, really, but I do sometimes.
:51:18. > :51:23.
:51:23. > :51:28.This was in Allah. -- Bala. The farmers had gone through a
:51:28. > :51:32.traumatic period and I think there was a lack of understanding.
:51:32. > :51:37.Can we see his interview with us and possibly a statement on Tuesday as
:51:37. > :51:41.an olive branch? I think there have been discussions
:51:41. > :51:44.and will be ongoing discussions with the farming unions and the list and
:51:44. > :51:49.officials. There are, within the European union, there are these
:51:49. > :51:54.areas of natural constraint which are part of the new CAP structure
:51:54. > :51:59.and I hope if we see what we think we saw this winter or this early
:51:59. > :52:04.spring, really, the effect of climate change, then we have to look
:52:04. > :52:09.at the whole way in which we have been running on the hills with a
:52:09. > :52:15.traditional Welsh mountain sheep. If that is the outcome, then obviously
:52:15. > :52:17.we have to keep the business going. We export 95% of Welsh lamb and that
:52:17. > :52:23.is a brilliant thing for a small country to do.
:52:23. > :52:26.He wanted to come in? I don't think last winter was, it
:52:26. > :52:32.was a serious winter and there was an issue when the snowfall was late
:52:32. > :52:36.which caused, on top of other issues, problems. I was farming in
:52:36. > :52:40.1953 and we had a snowstorm that lasted for six or eight weeks and it
:52:40. > :52:44.was far colder. I was up for a fortnight, digging sheep out. It
:52:44. > :52:49.isn't something unique and it may happen again in the future.
:52:49. > :52:52.Thank you. The NHS qualified for its bus pass this week - free bus pass
:52:52. > :52:55.in Wales, of course - celebrating 65 years on Friday. The Health Minister
:52:55. > :52:58.was in Ebbw Vale to celebrate the milestone at the Aneurin Bevan
:52:58. > :53:03.stones in memory of the man who established the National Health
:53:03. > :53:07.Service back in 1948. A good time to speak to the man in
:53:07. > :53:13.charge of the NHS at the end of what many have described as an historic
:53:13. > :53:18.week in Welsh politics. Roger, the core of the organ donation Bill, I
:53:18. > :53:22.think, are some of the values that were there at the very beginning of
:53:22. > :53:26.the NHS. People are willing to contribute to people who they will
:53:26. > :53:31.never meet and never know but whose lives will be connected for ever as
:53:31. > :53:36.a result of the gift of an organ and the NHS is just that gift
:53:36. > :53:40.relationship writ large. That was the week that has been. We
:53:40. > :53:48.know politics moves quickly. Looking ahead to the week ahead, you are
:53:48. > :53:54.going to hand before the -- stand before the Thanet and talk about the
:53:54. > :53:58.mid Staffordshire health trust. What have you learned from the report?
:53:58. > :54:01.The first thing we learned was not to believe that what went on in mid
:54:01. > :54:08.Staffordshire could not happen in Wales. That is my starting point. We
:54:08. > :54:12.have to take that reports deviously -- report seriously and we have to
:54:12. > :54:16.say that there are some dealt into the NHS in Wales that make what
:54:16. > :54:20.happened in mid Staffordshire less likely but it still could happen in
:54:20. > :54:23.some places and therefore, we need to make sure that we do everything
:54:23. > :54:28.we can to try and prevent that from happening.
:54:28. > :54:30.In his written response to the crisis at Stafford Hospital, the
:54:30. > :54:34.Welsh government recognises it must do more to prevent unnecessary
:54:34. > :54:40.suffering and in some cases, potentially avoidable deaths in the
:54:40. > :54:45.Welsh NHS. I want to be clear that I think the
:54:45. > :54:50.culture across the Welsh NHS is one of care and compassion. Most people
:54:50. > :54:54.who use it are treated with dignity and respect. In the small places and
:54:54. > :54:57.the small instances where that doesn't take place, we have to learn
:54:57. > :55:02.from that and put those things right.
:55:02. > :55:05.Glyn Davies, an honest assessment from Mark Drakeford, there,
:55:05. > :55:09.suggesting there is always room for improvement but it is not just the
:55:09. > :55:14.NHS in Wales that will be responding to this report, is it?
:55:14. > :55:18.There have been responses already to what happened in mid Staffordshire
:55:18. > :55:23.and Morecambe. There are a number of examples of quite shocking examples
:55:23. > :55:26.of mistreatment in the NHS. I think what is good, listening to Mark
:55:26. > :55:30.Drakeford and Jeremy Hunt in Westminster, is now there is a
:55:30. > :55:34.willingness to speak openly about the failings and successes of the
:55:34. > :55:38.NHS. Dafydd Elis-Thomas, I am sure you
:55:38. > :55:43.will be hearing the response in the chamber. There is a report that the
:55:43. > :55:47.government has published that suggest it's possible there will be
:55:47. > :55:51.legislation that stems from it, that's just the Welsh government
:55:51. > :55:56.really is taking on board what the Francis report says.
:55:56. > :55:59.I think they have to and we have to respond. We already have a piece of
:55:59. > :56:03.legislation on integrated health and social care which is going through
:56:03. > :56:07.now and I am keen to see the issues that are exposed in North Wales in
:56:07. > :56:14.this matter, being addressed. I have complete faith in Mark Drakeford as
:56:14. > :56:16.a minister because I believe he has an integrity about him and a
:56:16. > :56:19.knowledge of both health and social care that will enable him to take
:56:19. > :56:25.this on. That is as looking forward. Let's
:56:25. > :56:31.look back. Mark Drakeford described the vote in the debate over the
:56:31. > :56:36.organ donation system that we propose, as historic. Do you agree?
:56:36. > :56:39.Yes. I was extremely proud of that. I remember talking to the British
:56:39. > :56:45.Medical Association long before we had lawmaking powers about what we
:56:45. > :56:49.could do and they were keen on doing this. I was so pleased on the night
:56:49. > :56:54.that we got a strong, free vote across parties that meant that we
:56:54. > :56:57.have a system that is based on citizenship in Wales including the
:56:57. > :57:01.sharing of organ donation and I think that is a fine time of the
:57:01. > :57:07.kind of country we are. That is not your take on it, is it?
:57:07. > :57:11.I defend the right of the Assembly to do what it thinks is right for
:57:11. > :57:14.Wales. I am a huge champion of organ donation but I don't think this will
:57:14. > :57:18.make any significant difference and I think it is a mistake. I'm
:57:18. > :57:22.interested in seeing what difference it will make to UK organ donation
:57:22. > :57:26.and I think it will be negative but I defend the rights of the Assembly
:57:26. > :57:29.to do what I disapprove of. That's what I like to hear!
:57:29. > :57:39.There is just time for a quick look back at some of the political
:57:39. > :57:46.
:57:46. > :57:51.crime commission said he would not resign after an MP said he should
:57:51. > :57:55.reflect on his position. Last month, Mr Johnson admitted forcing out the
:57:55. > :58:01.Chief Constable, Carmel Napier, but she and Mr Johnston appeared before
:58:01. > :58:06.the home affairs committee of MPs to give their versions of events.
:58:06. > :58:12.You get any p, John Bufton, said he was still opposed to devolution to
:58:12. > :58:18.despite Nigel for much saying he was relaxed about the idea. And for more
:58:18. > :58:26.parties selected candidates for the Ynys Mon by-election. Nathan Gale is
:58:26. > :58:29.standing, the Conservatives selected the fell and the Liberal Democrat
:58:29. > :58:32.candidate is Steve Churchman. Catherine Jones is standing for the
:58:32. > :58:38.Socialist Labour Party. And Carwyn Jones lead congratulations to the
:58:38. > :58:47.British and Irish Lions as they beat Australia 41-16 to secure a 2-1 win
:58:47. > :58:52.in the test series. We mentioned the Ynys Mon
:58:52. > :58:57.by-election. Plaid Cymru and Labour are fielding candidates to. I cannot
:58:57. > :59:00.let this moment pass that making reference to your tie, Dafydd
:59:00. > :59:05.Elis-Thomas. There is something the pair of you were discussing
:59:05. > :59:09.regarding Warren Gatland. I have been wearing this tie every
:59:09. > :59:13.match day. This is the Welsh Lion. I will keep wearing it until so Warren
:59:13. > :59:21.Gatland and the rest of the team are properly recognised by British and
:59:21. > :59:26.Irish and Welsh people. Is that a call for a knighthood?
:59:26. > :59:30.So Warren Gatland, absolutely. I made a prophecy and it was right. So
:59:30. > :59:33.Warren Gatland, definitely. In terms of a weekend for sport, I
:59:33. > :59:38.was driving to work this morning and was reminded that Andy Murray is in
:59:38. > :59:41.the final of Wimbledon. He managed to distract us, or the Lions managed
:59:41. > :59:46.to distract us yesterday. Where did you watch it?
:59:46. > :59:51.I mustn't mention Anglesey but I did watch it in a public house in
:59:51. > :59:55.Anglesey and saw the end of it but it has been an amazing thing. Carlin
:59:55. > :59:59.James was one of my mentors in life and he would have loved this.
:59:59. > :00:04.I have watched it twice. I watched it live in the morning and the
:00:04. > :00:09.beginning of the second half, I thought, here we go again! We had a
:00:09. > :00:13.magnificent 20 minutes of rugby. Since I saw...
:00:13. > :00:17.Don't forget the Wales Report on BBC One Wales after the 10:00pm news