:01:34. > :01:44.Government is spending the summer reviewing the NHS budget.
:01:44. > :01:45.
:01:45. > :38:41.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2216 seconds
:38:41. > :38:45.What prescription could Health Hello, and on the Sunday Politics
:38:45. > :38:47.Wales: What could be the impact of the Welsh government's health
:38:47. > :38:52.spending review? And we visit sunny Anglesey, where
:38:52. > :38:55.there's an Assembly by-election campaign in full swing. Joining me
:38:55. > :39:03.throughout today's programme are two AMs, Labour's Mick Antoniw and the
:39:03. > :39:08.Conservative's Nick Ramsay. Good morning to you both. Let's begin
:39:08. > :39:13.with a subject we touched on in last week 's problem -- programme, Labour
:39:13. > :39:17.and the unions. At Miliband has attempted to redefine the party 's
:39:18. > :39:23.link with the unions. Is that a positive thing? I think we all went
:39:23. > :39:28.to the far closer links with the trade unions and members and greater
:39:28. > :39:31.activity from members. I do not have any difficulty with the existing
:39:31. > :39:36.funding system because it avoids as being in the pockets of
:39:36. > :39:40.millionaires. Which I suppose is having a go at Nick Ramsay 's party.
:39:40. > :39:44.6p a week from an ordinary working person going towards the Labour
:39:45. > :39:47.party, I think is far preferable to a system where you have got a
:39:47. > :39:54.Conservative party must dependent on million pound donations from bunkers
:39:54. > :39:58.and financiers. I think it might as much more accountable to working
:39:58. > :40:03.people. But few people might choose to pay that sixpence, which means
:40:03. > :40:07.your party and up they got less money. People know about it. You
:40:07. > :40:10.cannot avoid it. It is on the television virtually every day.
:40:10. > :40:14.Whether the change in the system will make a difference, I don't
:40:14. > :40:19.know, but one thing that is important is I want to see far more
:40:19. > :40:23.trade union and ordinary working people not only active within the
:40:23. > :40:26.Labour Party but standing for things like cancels, the assembly and
:40:26. > :40:34.parliament so they become far more representative of the society at
:40:34. > :40:37.large. He was adjusting your party is in the pockets of financiers. I
:40:37. > :40:42.think that is a blatant exaggeration. There have been a few
:40:42. > :40:46.millionaire donations to Labour over the years. This issue with the trade
:40:46. > :40:51.union membership is that everyone who is a member of my party chooses
:40:51. > :40:55.to be a member of my party. Sadly, the way the relationship with the
:40:55. > :41:00.trade union and the Labour Party works is unless you opt out, you can
:41:00. > :41:05.be adopted into Labour Party membership, which is what has
:41:05. > :41:12.happened in Falkirk. I think he is right. He knows we need to change
:41:12. > :41:16.the way this is done. Has that Miliband, he has almost been forced
:41:16. > :41:20.into doing this, because he has chosen not to change the
:41:20. > :41:24.relationship since he took over. now he has done something about it,
:41:24. > :41:29.is that a case of self preservation for him or for the good of the
:41:29. > :41:33.party? What has happened is an agenda that is brought forward.
:41:33. > :41:39.have been discussing the nature of the relationship and how we get more
:41:39. > :41:43.trade union individuals active within the party. The fortnight
:41:43. > :41:48.before the whole argument stood up, I was attending a whole series of
:41:48. > :41:52.meetings with trade union workers, nurses and so one where we were
:41:52. > :41:56.talking about the relationship with the trade unions and many of them
:41:56. > :42:01.were joining the party as a consequence of that. He has been
:42:01. > :42:07.stepped up for a sitting amount of political opportunism, detracting
:42:07. > :42:12.from what is happening in society, but this debate has been going on.
:42:12. > :42:16.It has catalysed the agenda for more quickly. Your party have heaped the
:42:16. > :42:21.pressure on him over this? I think the way the relationship with the
:42:21. > :42:26.unions has worked as cause that pressure itself. What is the all
:42:26. > :42:30.adage? No greater love hath man than to lay down his union for the sake
:42:30. > :42:32.of his life? We know why he has taken that decision. He is worried
:42:32. > :42:36.about his job. On last week's programme, Mark
:42:36. > :42:39.Drakeford told me about what he described as an historic week in
:42:39. > :42:42.Welsh politics. The NHS was 65 years old and Assembly Members backed a
:42:42. > :42:45.bill which would allow Wales to become the first country in the UK
:42:45. > :42:52.to adopt a process where people will be presumed to have consented for
:42:52. > :42:54.their organs to be donated unless they object. I am not sure if the
:42:54. > :42:58.health minister would describe the events of the past few days as
:42:58. > :43:02.historic, but they have been described as significant. On
:43:02. > :43:05.Tuesday, yet announced a review of the health budget to improve patient
:43:05. > :43:13.care. The move was part of the Welsh government 's response to a high
:43:13. > :43:18.profile enquiry into serious failings at this hospital trust. I
:43:18. > :43:23.will be undertaking a review of the NHS budget over the summer.
:43:23. > :43:27.ensure that it reflects the lessons to be learned from this. The
:43:27. > :43:32.additional burdens which both the health service and to ensure there
:43:32. > :43:37.is a proper match between the quality of care, patient safety
:43:37. > :43:41.issues and the budgets to support them. This was a very significant
:43:41. > :43:46.statement in the context of quality and safety. It reaffirms the
:43:46. > :43:51.government commitment to facing quality and safety as the prime
:43:51. > :43:55.emphasis of health policy in Wales, which attach to be. The Inquiry
:43:55. > :44:00.demonstrated quite clearly what can go wrong and badly wrong if the
:44:00. > :44:04.focus is on the other things. I think this announcement is pivotal
:44:04. > :44:10.and key in ensuring that health boards now are aware that quality
:44:10. > :44:14.and safety has two dominate their thinking. The minister also
:44:14. > :44:19.announced that �10 million would be spent on recruiting extra nurses.
:44:19. > :44:22.pledged to update the current NHS complaints procedure and review
:44:22. > :44:27.basic standards of care and announced changes to the structure
:44:27. > :44:30.of the plan service in Wales. If the review of NHS spending results in an
:44:30. > :44:34.increase to the health budget, we could that money come from? The
:44:34. > :44:40.government has to face the question, to the man to spend more in health.
:44:40. > :44:44.I will but come from 's education and social services are, in a sense,
:44:44. > :44:49.protect it, so local government is going to have to look at declining
:44:49. > :44:55.allocations to them and what are they going to cut in order to
:44:55. > :44:59.provide the health service with the budget? The anecdotal evidence has
:44:59. > :45:05.been that health has been frozen for the past few years because they had
:45:05. > :45:10.the seven years of plenty. It is a else's turn to have the benefit.
:45:10. > :45:12.Now, with this additional expenditure, they may have two
:45:12. > :45:21.revert to type and suffered the consequences of putting more money
:45:21. > :45:26.into health. Let's pick up on some of those points. Your party leader
:45:26. > :45:29.welcomed the review this week. He didn't go as far as to thank the
:45:29. > :45:34.government for taking on what is essentially one of your party
:45:34. > :45:38.policies. We welcomed the review. Once again, talk about another
:45:38. > :45:43.conversion on the road to Damascus, I accuse the first minister of that
:45:43. > :45:47.this week. We have been banging on about this for ages. Of course,
:45:47. > :45:50.there has to be increased spending on the NHS. If the Welsh Labour
:45:50. > :45:56.government had listened to my party in the last election, the health
:45:56. > :45:59.budget would have been protect it. That it not happen. There are
:45:59. > :46:03.massive pressures on the NHS. No matter how much money you were able
:46:03. > :46:08.to put into it, there will be problems in finding all the demands,
:46:08. > :46:12.but the people of Wales want to see extra money spent on the NHS and I
:46:12. > :46:17.know it is difficult to make cuts in other areas, but at the end of the
:46:17. > :46:21.day, the NHS is the key priority. will come back to the point and
:46:21. > :46:27.where money should come from. Mark Dreyfus has announced a review. It
:46:27. > :46:31.does not mean there will be more money. It might be re-prioritised. I
:46:31. > :46:36.doubt that money will be cut from it. The government has essentially
:46:36. > :46:44.taken on the Conservative message to protect the NHS. I think this is
:46:44. > :46:48.about learning lessons from... the Conservatives? No.This is a
:46:48. > :46:55.very serious report which goes to the roots of the care and quality
:46:55. > :47:00.within the NHS. We can have our buns are on the NHS, -- and on the NHS.
:47:00. > :47:06.It is about the quality of care within the NHS and the social
:47:06. > :47:10.services. It is about what lessons we will learn. What we need to do? ,
:47:10. > :47:20.listening to people properly? To the complaints systems work? Is there an
:47:20. > :47:21.
:47:21. > :47:24.attic its standard of care bash Matt attic Kate standard of care? --
:47:24. > :47:28.adequate. One of the lessons we might learn is that we have been
:47:28. > :47:33.very focused in terms of delays in operations. Sometimes, we take our
:47:33. > :47:36.eye off the ball in terms of ultimately, when people go into
:47:36. > :47:39.hospital, what you want is the compassion, the care and the
:47:39. > :47:44.consideration and you need the staffing levels to be able to do
:47:44. > :47:48.that. When the reports came out, we had a Sarah debate in the assembly.
:47:48. > :47:53.The most important thing is that we are not only evaluating that and
:47:53. > :47:57.seeing how it applies to what is happening in hospitals in Wales and
:47:57. > :48:01.learn lessons and come forward with recommendations. That is why I very
:48:01. > :48:05.much favoured the announcement that has been made by Mark Drakeford
:48:05. > :48:11.acres it means we will have a bit of a review of all those particular
:48:11. > :48:17.issues. I think he realised it at to happen. You could not go one with a
:48:17. > :48:23.lack of funding going to the NHS. But it is not just about funding.
:48:23. > :48:27.Funding can go into the NHS and all sorts of ways. It is about actually
:48:27. > :48:32.raising the quality and the standard of care. Why has it taken this
:48:32. > :48:37.report to be published now to make sure that -- to make the government
:48:37. > :48:40.realises it is to be done? It has always been on the agenda. Because
:48:40. > :48:44.there has been much more analysis of the outcomes of what happens in
:48:44. > :48:49.hospitals, we are much more outcome focused, which is the way it should
:48:49. > :48:54.be. Jargon aside, there have been a lot of reviews over the years which
:48:54. > :48:57.ends up on a shelf and years later, you can see them in a misery.
:48:57. > :49:02.hope this actually works. That is why it is important that we have the
:49:02. > :49:06.report and we are publicly and transparently evaluating what the
:49:06. > :49:10.recommendations are. We will be testing them against what proposals
:49:10. > :49:16.we put forward to actually deal with those. Levels of staffing and care
:49:16. > :49:19.and of going to be at the core of it. Let's look at the financial
:49:19. > :49:22.implications. You touched and it to you. If more money goes into health,
:49:22. > :49:29.but has to come from somewhere else. Professor Ceri Phillips touched on
:49:29. > :49:35.that earlier. Will it come from education? You suggested local
:49:35. > :49:38.government might be in the line of fire. He was wrong on the fact that
:49:39. > :49:44.some of the other budgets have been protected. They have not. The
:49:44. > :49:49.schools budget has been cut. Local government is taking its own cuts.
:49:49. > :49:53.Don't let's pretend that those have been protected areas. Economies...
:49:53. > :49:58.That makes it even more difficult to find any extra money. The issue is
:49:58. > :50:01.that the health service was protected in the UK to a certain
:50:01. > :50:05.extent at the last election. And in Wales, because the health budget
:50:05. > :50:10.takes up a huge portion, on the staff of the assembly 's budget,
:50:10. > :50:13.that means that any failure to protect the health budget has a
:50:13. > :50:17.disproportionate effect. When you consider the extra health issues in
:50:17. > :50:22.Wales, that can happen. I am pleased that Mark Drakeford is taking a look
:50:22. > :50:28.that is. He is not someone who will take any prisoners. He knows that
:50:28. > :50:32.the future of the NHS is at stake. nuclear reaction he has taken in the
:50:32. > :50:37.last week, particularly on this issue, is the right way to go, even
:50:37. > :50:40.if it could have happened sooner? It is essential that we have had the
:50:40. > :50:44.review. And we have had the meetings with all the heads of the health
:50:44. > :50:48.boards in order to discuss the implications of it. We do not know
:50:48. > :50:53.what the announcements will be, but clearly, they are going to lead to
:50:53. > :50:58.higher staffing levels in certain areas. An extra focus on the quality
:50:58. > :51:02.of care. That would have very serious effects on other parts of
:51:02. > :51:05.the assembly budget. Disproportionately so on the areas
:51:05. > :51:07.that are not ring fenced. There will be knock-on is from this
:51:07. > :51:11.announcement. We will cover them again.
:51:11. > :51:14.Next to Ynys Mon, where voters go to the polls on August first to elect a
:51:14. > :51:17.new Assembly Member following the resignation of Ieuan Wyn Jones,
:51:17. > :51:20.who's off to run the new Menai Science Park. There are six
:51:20. > :51:26.candidates standing, and Brian Meechan's been on the island to find
:51:26. > :51:31.a campaign that's in full swing. With maybe basking in a heatwave but
:51:31. > :51:35.on Anglesey, the political temperatures are also rising. The
:51:35. > :51:38.sitting AM and former Deputy first Minister Ieuan Wyn Jones shocked
:51:38. > :51:42.political observers with his resignation to take up a new role,
:51:42. > :51:45.triggering a by-election on the 1st of August. Talk to any of the
:51:45. > :51:50.candidates about what the local concerns are and the answer is
:51:50. > :51:56.unsurprising. My priorities are investment, creation of jobs,
:51:56. > :52:00.preservation of the jobs we have and investment to parts it back on the
:52:00. > :52:05.map. As jobs and the economy are on the front of voters minds, the
:52:05. > :52:10.nuclear power on the islands is playing a major role. The current
:52:10. > :52:13.power stations coming to the end of its operational life. There are
:52:13. > :52:18.plans underway for a replacement. The first Minister and the Labour
:52:18. > :52:26.candidate signed a pledge backing it on a visit to the local college this
:52:26. > :52:29.week. The main issue which we raised with people locally is jobs. It is
:52:29. > :52:35.obviously the biggest project in Wales, if not the UK in terms of
:52:35. > :52:39.location. In terms of actually getting jobs and high-tech jobs.
:52:39. > :52:44.What we are highlighting today is the way that we have got local
:52:44. > :52:49.firms, construction and the college doing the work to make sure local
:52:49. > :52:53.people benefit from those jobs. Plaid Cymru candidate says he is
:52:53. > :52:57.excited about the prospect and the jobs it will bring, but he once the
:52:57. > :53:02.environmental problems that will come with it to be dealt with. The
:53:02. > :53:06.critics say they are having a both ways. Putting new nuclear power
:53:06. > :53:11.locally while they party and its leader are anti-nuclear nationally.
:53:11. > :53:14.We are very comfortable as a party saying let's work with the
:53:14. > :53:21.developers to get jobs on the island whilst asking the really portion
:53:21. > :53:27.questions on the issues that worry people. -- important. We are being
:53:27. > :53:31.very honest with the people about what it can offer us. And we will
:53:31. > :53:33.work with the developers to make sure it works in the interest of
:53:33. > :53:38.Anglesey. Party-mac argued there are differences on opinion on nuclear
:53:38. > :53:43.power in other parties. I would rather not see the investment in
:53:43. > :53:48.this, but we have two except that the original station is living on
:53:48. > :53:52.borrowed time. We have a huge raft of staff that have a great
:53:53. > :53:56.expertise. We do not want to lose them. If we wait for the new one to
:53:56. > :54:02.be developed, we will lose them. Can we really keep the current station
:54:02. > :54:05.going and in the 2021? We need to look for alternative energies and
:54:05. > :54:09.make them work and we can then benefit from the skills we have on
:54:09. > :54:16.the island already. This is not just about winning another seat. If Welsh
:54:16. > :54:21.Labour take Ynys Mon from Plaid Cymru, they will win a majority in
:54:21. > :54:27.the assembly. It would also allow Labour to pass laws without fear of
:54:27. > :54:29.opposition parties blocking them. They both say they will continue to
:54:29. > :54:36.work with the other parties constructively, even if they did
:54:36. > :54:41.secure a majority. It is going in every conceivable political
:54:41. > :54:45.direction. All of the four major parties have held a seat at
:54:45. > :54:49.Westminster. Since 1999, the assembly seat has been held by Plaid
:54:49. > :54:53.Cymru. At the last assembly election, it was the Conservatives
:54:53. > :54:57.in second place. After the council election, the Independent controlled
:54:57. > :55:03.the local authority in coalition with Labour and the Lib Dems.
:55:03. > :55:05.Party-mac was the largest party. Neither party had a cancer elected.
:55:05. > :55:14.The Tory candidate says he is not worried about the rising support for
:55:14. > :55:18.the new force in Rajesh politics. is a protest party. And the buzz of
:55:18. > :55:24.that process is still very effective. Their policy on the
:55:24. > :55:30.movement of European migration does not seem a huge issue on Anglesey.
:55:30. > :55:36.When I am asked about it, I half to say that my dentist, my plumber, my
:55:36. > :55:43.decorator -- my decorator on all Polish or Ukrainian and contribute a
:55:43. > :55:46.great deal. From speaking to people, people are absolutely fed up of the
:55:46. > :55:49.status quo of what is happening. You could point into the last election
:55:49. > :55:53.with a policy of abolishing the assembly. They can still believes
:55:54. > :55:58.too much money is being spent by the current devolution set and councils
:55:58. > :56:02.should have more power. But there find that the party could be
:56:02. > :56:07.softening its stance on devolution. This is a work in progress.
:56:07. > :56:11.haven't finalised the policy on devolution. There are lots of
:56:11. > :56:16.stakeholders involved. They have got a member of the Northern Irish
:56:16. > :56:21.assembly, we have got people involved very closely in Scotland
:56:21. > :56:23.and, of course, here in Wales. I think what we will need to do as a
:56:23. > :56:28.party is have a devolution conference were all of the
:56:28. > :56:32.stakeholders get together and we decide exactly what we want our
:56:32. > :56:37.devolution policy to be. Many on the island believe it is unique and that
:56:37. > :56:42.impact is on its politics. People do actually vote for the local
:56:42. > :56:47.candidate as well as for the party. Having been here on the island for
:56:47. > :56:52.ten years, speaking Welsh, which not all the other candidates do, either
:56:52. > :56:57.live on the island or speak Welsh, those issues matter here. It is very
:56:57. > :57:00.much a distinctive voice on Anglesey that is not always heard in Cardiff
:57:00. > :57:04.or Westminster. There we start from the island, the Labour candidate is
:57:04. > :57:08.keen to stress his roots are on Anglesey. I was delighted to be able
:57:08. > :57:13.to come back to North Wales and what is needed is an assembly member who
:57:13. > :57:17.understand the difference between North, and South Wales. In terms of
:57:17. > :57:21.the economy and issues we have got you, I spent a lot of time on the
:57:21. > :57:23.island and I were to be continuing to spend a lot of time here,
:57:24. > :57:32.listening and talking to people and making sure their views are
:57:32. > :57:36.represented in Cardiff. I recognise your face. Not dissimilar to Matt
:57:36. > :57:41.Damon. Critics have said that Plaid Cymru have been focusing too much on
:57:41. > :57:46.celebrity because there candidate is a former BBC and as for the
:57:46. > :57:50.presenter and not enough on the issues. I am the local candidate
:57:50. > :57:56.that can win here on Ynys Mon. Celebrity is a youth -- word that
:57:56. > :58:00.might use. As far as I'm concerned, I am a local man who is bringing his
:58:00. > :58:04.family upon the island where I was brought up by self. People who are
:58:04. > :58:09.from Anglesey, like myself, who were brought up here, have a passion for
:58:09. > :58:14.the place. The Socialist Labour candidate is also standing. Voters
:58:14. > :58:20.have a little over two weeks to make up their minds as another twist in
:58:20. > :58:23.the effort colourful world of Anglesey politics runs its course.
:58:23. > :58:26.You can see more about the candidates in the August first
:58:26. > :58:29.Assembly by-election on Anglesey by going to BBC Wales' news online
:58:29. > :58:39.pages. Time now for a quick look back at some of the political
:58:39. > :58:41.
:58:41. > :58:44.stories of the week in 60 Seconds. The former Conservative MP and AM
:58:44. > :58:48.Robert Richards joined the UK Independence party. Mr Richards, who
:58:48. > :58:54.is a former Wales office minister wants to be an active member. He
:58:54. > :58:56.refused to be drawn on whether he might stand as a candidate in next
:58:56. > :58:59.year 's European elections. Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg told MPs
:58:59. > :59:02.that supporters of the assembly having more power was would be
:59:02. > :59:06.pleasantly surprised by the UK government is forward leading
:59:06. > :59:11.approach when it is response to the socket omission report is
:59:11. > :59:15.published. The Welsh government said the construction of a �1 billion M4
:59:15. > :59:19.relief road in South Wales could be paid for by Severn Bridge Poles. --
:59:19. > :59:25.tolls. Jane had said talks with Westminster over transferring
:59:25. > :59:28.responsibility over the crossings to Wales had been constructive. Several
:59:28. > :59:32.Welsh MPs criticised proposals to give them up pay rise. The
:59:32. > :59:42.Independent Parliamentary standards authority said there they sit pay
:59:42. > :59:44.
:59:44. > :59:48.should increase to �74,000 a year after the 2015 election. That was
:59:48. > :59:52.the week that has been. We are into the final week of the assembly term.
:59:52. > :59:56.On Tuesday, there is a debate on an emergency bill to do with the
:59:56. > :00:02.agricultural wages board, something you have been campaigning hard on.
:00:02. > :00:08.Assembly members will be discussing that this week. Tell us why you
:00:08. > :00:13.think it is important. 13,000 agricultural workers who will suffer
:00:13. > :00:16.reduced terms and conditions and pay and it will have an adverse effect
:00:16. > :00:20.on agriculture within Wales and increase rural poverty. Is it right
:00:20. > :00:24.that the assembly is discussing this on Tuesday? There was a discussion
:00:24. > :00:28.whether it was able to? We do not have any choice. It was only
:00:29. > :00:32.abolished on the 25th of June. If we do not do something, by October,
:00:32. > :00:36.thousands of workers will be suffering. You do not think you
:00:36. > :00:40.should be taking the time to discuss it. Respect and loads of issues, but
:00:40. > :00:44.this is not one of them. This is a complete red herring. The
:00:44. > :00:49.agricultural wages board has only become it an issue because they that
:00:49. > :00:52.have decided to make it an issue. And the government can do that if
:00:52. > :00:59.they went. They can if they want to focus on things that will not help
:00:59. > :01:03.rural poverty. It will get worse. There were 24 responses to the
:01:03. > :01:07.consultation. Ten of them came from UNITA and the other six from your
:01:07. > :01:11.own ATMs. The farmers union of Wales, young farmers, totally
:01:11. > :01:19.opposed to the abolition. You are supporting increased rural poverty.
:01:19. > :01:22.In favour of the land owners. have phrased a sitting question, do
:01:23. > :01:26.you think abolishing it will help things? Of course it will. People
:01:27. > :01:30.will have increased protection and entitlement to higher wages and