:00:25. > :00:50.after the summer recess, and the party conference season is already
:00:50. > :00:55.upon us. First, the Liberal Democrats. Have a great conference.
:00:55. > :01:01.Nick Clegg has some convincing to do, according to our very own Sunday
:01:01. > :01:05.Politics poll, his troops don't like his coalition bedmates. The latest
:01:05. > :01:12.poll of the country also has the Lib Dems languishing behind UKIP in
:01:12. > :01:17.fourth place, with only 9%. Paddy Ashdown! So can the Lib Dems
:01:17. > :01:23.claw their way back, come the election in 2015? We will talking to
:01:23. > :01:26.former leader, now the party's general election commander-in-chief,
:01:26. > :01:28.Paddy Ashdown. George Osborne is a happy bunny
:01:28. > :01:37.Later in the programme, chicken feed these days,
:01:37. > :01:41.Later in the programme, chicken feed dashed that is how the Welsh
:01:41. > :01:42.Conservative Assembly leader describes previous budget deals with
:01:42. > :01:44.the Welsh describes previous budget deals with
:01:44. > :01:55.now heading for the exit. We will hear from Nick Clegg on what it
:01:55. > :01:59.signifies. And freshly showered from the Great
:01:59. > :02:03.North Run and looking as fresh as daisies, the best and brightest
:02:03. > :02:08.political panel in the business. Janan Ganesh, Helen Lewis and Iain
:02:08. > :02:11.Martin, who will be tweeting throughout the programme.
:02:11. > :02:15.Now, their leader is our Deputy Prime Minister. They are the junior
:02:15. > :02:19.partners of our coalition government. They like the colour
:02:19. > :02:22.yellow and they have not won a general election since dinosaurs
:02:22. > :02:26.walked the earth. Now they are behind UKIP in the polls, so as the
:02:26. > :02:33.party gathers for its annual bash this year in Glasgow, what is on
:02:33. > :02:35.their mind? Who are the people gathering at the Clyde this weekend?
:02:36. > :02:40.their mind? Who are the people Before they started drinking, we
:02:40. > :02:45.surveyed 580 Liberal Democrat councillors in England and Wales,
:02:45. > :02:52.with the help of some pollsters, comrade. The first question we asked
:02:52. > :02:55.was, if the next election results in a hung parliament, which team would
:02:55. > :02:58.you rather go into coalition with, the Reds or the blues? Lib Dem
:02:58. > :03:04.councillors said Labour, two to one. the Reds or the blues? Lib Dem
:03:04. > :03:13.Tories or Labour? It is not for us the Reds or the blues? Lib Dem
:03:14. > :03:21.to say. It is for the voters to say. We will decide depending on
:03:21. > :03:23.what the voters tell us. Your councillors favoured a coalition
:03:23. > :03:36.with Labour. Well, it depends what is on the table. Who would you
:03:36. > :03:43.rather play table football against? I would rather play against you,
:03:43. > :03:47.because I am winning. So in the Lib Dems shop, which policies are
:03:47. > :03:50.winning 's which ones are heading for the bargain bin? The most
:03:50. > :03:52.winning 's which ones are heading popular policy was a mansion tax on
:03:52. > :03:58.house is worth more than £2 million, popular policy was a mansion tax on
:03:58. > :04:03.which was supported by 80 -- 86% of councillors. The next most popular
:04:03. > :04:07.policy was scrapping the Trident councillors. The next most popular
:04:07. > :04:11.nuclear deterrent, supported by 72% of councillors. Then there was the
:04:11. > :04:16.nuclear deterrent, supported by 72% reinstatement of the 50p top rate of
:04:16. > :04:20.income tax. 70% of councillors like the look of that. When it came to
:04:20. > :04:24.the idea of banning the burka in public places like schools and
:04:24. > :04:32.airports, 45% of councillors were in favour. Finally, a ban on topless
:04:32. > :04:37.Page three model is won the support of 33% of councillors. Why is it so
:04:37. > :04:44.popular, the idea of a mansion tax? It is a much fairer tax. We know
:04:44. > :04:49.there are people out there with very expensive houses. Which of these is
:04:49. > :04:56.most important to you? Banning Trident. The cold war ended in
:04:56. > :05:01.1989. Another one was the idea of banning the burka in public places.
:05:01. > :05:03.No, I feel people should wear whatever they like. If they want to
:05:03. > :05:09.No, I feel people should wear wear the birth or a kilt or if they
:05:09. > :05:18.want to be naked or not wear anything. We are the party of jobs.
:05:18. > :05:23.Thank you. Last night, a fully clothed Nick Clegg rallied his
:05:23. > :05:28.troops, but if he was not around, who would Lib Dem councillors want
:05:28. > :05:34.instead? Business Secretary Vince Cable was most popular, with a third
:05:34. > :05:40.of the votes. In second place, the party's president, Tim Farron, with
:05:40. > :05:43.27%. 10% went to Danny Alexander, Chief Secretary to the Treasury,
:05:43. > :05:48.while the business minister Joe Swinson received 7%. The Energy
:05:48. > :05:56.Secretary Ed Davey scooped 6%, and in last place, Steve Webb, the
:05:56. > :06:00.pensions minister, who got 5%. If any of these councillors want to
:06:00. > :06:06.talk to me about it, I would be delighted to hear from them. Is that
:06:06. > :06:12.a bid for a leadership campaign? It certainly isn't. What do you think
:06:12. > :06:15.of these? That is quite a collection. These are the
:06:16. > :06:22.contenders. But our survey is not the only one that has got tongues
:06:22. > :06:23.wagging in Glasgow, because the Lib Dem leadership have commissioned
:06:23. > :06:25.their own poll which showed that 75% Dem leadership have commissioned
:06:25. > :06:29.of the country will never vote Dem leadership have commissioned
:06:29. > :06:31.the party, no matter what they do. Also meeting here this weekend, this
:06:31. > :06:37.the party, no matter what they do. group of bikers. But Liberal
:06:37. > :06:44.Democrats like to think they have got just as much va-va-voom, even if
:06:44. > :06:54.a big chunk of the country doesn't. Add, back in his hometown. So, the
:06:54. > :06:55.Lib Dems are on 9% in the polls. Much of their party thinks they are
:06:55. > :06:59.Lib Dems are on 9% in the polls. moving in the wrong direction.
:06:59. > :07:02.Earlier, I spoke to former party moving in the wrong direction.
:07:02. > :07:05.leader Paddy Ashdown. He has been put in charge of heading up the 2015
:07:05. > :07:11.leader Paddy Ashdown. He has been election campaign. I asked him if
:07:11. > :07:17.the mood in Glasgow was grim. No. In many ways, as you know, Tory old
:07:17. > :07:21.commentator that you are just as I am a hoary old member at the other
:07:21. > :07:27.end of the camera, we have been there, done that and got the
:07:27. > :07:31.T-shirt. Where you are in the midterm of a government, especially
:07:31. > :07:35.when you are in government and the country is going for in a deep
:07:35. > :07:40.economic crisis, has almost no relevance to where you might be when
:07:40. > :07:45.the nipple come to consider how they will vote in 600 days time -- when
:07:45. > :07:50.the people come to consider how they will vote. We do not dismiss polls,
:07:51. > :07:54.but they are a snapshot of what is happening now and give little
:07:54. > :07:58.indication of where we will be. My guess is, for what it is worth, that
:07:58. > :08:01.as we come to the election, the public will be in a very serious,
:08:01. > :08:09.probably frightened mood. Their main public will be in a very serious,
:08:09. > :08:12.thoughts will be, who maintains my job, makes sure I don't have to pay
:08:12. > :08:19.thoughts will be, who maintains my to higher mortgage? The coalition
:08:19. > :08:23.has delivered not only the required policies to make Britain's economy
:08:23. > :08:29.prosperous, but also its society fair. That is what people will want
:08:29. > :08:33.to see. I think coalition politics are here to stay and we have a role
:08:34. > :08:38.to play in it. But you are in a grim mood this morning. You tweeted that
:08:38. > :08:41.you were not happy with how the Observer newspaper handled your
:08:41. > :08:46.interview. What was the problem? Is there anything we can do to help?
:08:46. > :08:53.There is probably something they could do to help. I have no
:08:53. > :08:57.arguments with the interview. The headline they chose to put on it
:08:57. > :09:01.late last night was outrageous, misrepresentative and in one case in
:09:01. > :09:04.accurate. What was the headline? Something about Ashdown wants a
:09:04. > :09:10.coalition with the Tories, or at Something about Ashdown wants a
:09:10. > :09:16.least they gave that in for us -- inference. Let me make this point.
:09:16. > :09:22.We are coming up to the next election. I am in charge of the
:09:22. > :09:26.campaign. Any journalist who in these next two years says that any
:09:26. > :09:31.Liberal Democrat prefers anything else in terms of the outcome of a
:09:31. > :09:34.coalition but the result of the ballot box dictating that outcome,
:09:34. > :09:38.that any prefer one side to another over and they want to see a
:09:38. > :09:42.that any prefer one side to another coalition determined by the electors
:09:42. > :09:46.that any prefer one side to another in the votes, will get a bloody hard
:09:46. > :10:08.time from me, no matter who they are. We take the warning. A survey
:10:08. > :10:09.of Lib Dem councillors shows that in the event of another hung
:10:09. > :10:11.parliament, only 16% of your the event of another hung
:10:11. > :10:13.councillors want to renew the coalition with the Tories. That is a
:10:13. > :10:15.councillors want to renew the clear sign that your activists want
:10:15. > :10:18.a change of direction. I don't think it is news that as a left-wing
:10:18. > :10:21.party, we find it more congenial with those on the left wing, but
:10:21. > :10:23.that is not the issue. You saw it was not the issue at the last
:10:23. > :10:26.election. We are servants of the ballot box. We do watch the British
:10:27. > :10:29.people require us to do to provide a stable government in the interests
:10:29. > :10:31.of our country. I am sure you have got the point by now. I have fought
:10:31. > :10:34.of our country. I am sure you have the Tories all my life. But when
:10:34. > :10:37.Labour run away from the Tories all my life. But when
:10:37. > :10:42.responsibility to amend the economic crisis, was this right for the
:10:42. > :10:46.country? That is what drives me. Let me say again. The people will
:10:46. > :10:53.determine who are going to be in any coalition, should there be one, the
:10:54. > :10:59.voters and nobody else. It is not about what we like. I understand
:11:00. > :11:03.that. But your own internal polls show that Mr Clegg and the
:11:03. > :11:10.leadership are not taking the party with them on that. I don't think
:11:10. > :11:14.that is true. Nick Clegg has done what no other party leader has done.
:11:14. > :11:19.He took the coalition agreement to the party, and they voted for it. So
:11:19. > :11:23.it is not true to say that members of the party are moving in a
:11:23. > :11:27.different direction. I think we are extraordinarily united. I did not
:11:27. > :11:31.expect them to be so under these pressures, but they have surprised
:11:31. > :11:34.me and made me joyful at the same time. The party has done what it
:11:34. > :11:39.needs to do. This is what time. The party has done what it
:11:39. > :11:44.done in local government for a long time. We may have our private likes
:11:44. > :11:50.and dislikes, but the thing that time. We may have our private likes
:11:50. > :11:55.dictates the formation of a coalition is the ballot box. You
:11:55. > :12:01.have said that three times. I can say it again if you like. Please
:12:01. > :12:02.don't! What if your party votes to reinstate tuition fees as party
:12:02. > :12:12.policy afternoon? We will have to reinstate tuition fees as party
:12:12. > :12:16.listen to that and act accordingly. You must listen to the voice of the
:12:16. > :12:21.party and take it into account in what you do. I am always quite
:12:21. > :12:26.careful, as you know, about answering hypothetical questions. I
:12:26. > :12:31.don't think it is likely to happen, but if it did, we would have to do
:12:31. > :12:34.consider it. I thought what distinguished Lib Dems was that if
:12:34. > :12:41.your party conference voted for something, it was in the manifesto.
:12:41. > :12:45.The manifesto is taken in its final form before the party for decision.
:12:45. > :12:50.The party will express views at this stage in all sorts of ways. It did
:12:50. > :12:54.in my leadership, too. The manifesto is democratically agreed by the
:12:54. > :12:59.party at the time of the election, not before. The Tory conference will
:13:00. > :13:03.be about how they think they have been vindicated, that austerity has
:13:03. > :13:08.worked, the economy is turning a corner. But Nick Clegg's conference
:13:08. > :13:14.announcements will be about plastic bags. Have you got the hang of this
:13:14. > :13:19.coalition think? Andrew, you can always be guaranteed to put things
:13:19. > :13:26.in the most discreditable form! That is part of your charm. That was
:13:26. > :13:33.about to be a minor announcement in the middle of his speech. But it was
:13:33. > :13:37.discovered beforehand. It has not been very popular in terms of how it
:13:37. > :13:42.has been received, but that is not the central message. That leads me
:13:42. > :13:48.to what I think is the biggest danger you face at the next
:13:48. > :13:53.election. Isn't the biggest danger that the Tories, not you, if there
:13:53. > :14:04.is an economic recovery, they will get the credit for it? I don't think
:14:04. > :14:06.that is true. By the way, I don't think the electorate does gratitude.
:14:06. > :14:10.The only time people cast a thank you vote was probably for Mrs
:14:10. > :14:13.Thatcher over the sale of council houses. We could have a different
:14:13. > :14:21.discussion over whether that was a good idea. But what you have done is
:14:21. > :14:22.the underpinning for the promise of what you will do. In this
:14:22. > :14:31.government, we have stayed firm on a what you will do. In this
:14:31. > :14:40.very tough economic policy. But will you get the credit? What we have
:14:40. > :14:44.done by ourselves, which the Tories would never have done, is make sure
:14:44. > :14:49.that when the pain is felt, it is not the poor who feel it. We have
:14:49. > :14:53.seen the biggest shift of taxation, lifting the poorest in the country
:14:53. > :15:00.out of taxation, that has ever happened, including in the previous
:15:00. > :15:05.Labour government. You are presiding over the biggest squeeze on living
:15:05. > :15:13.standards in modern times. Because it is the biggest recession in
:15:13. > :15:16.modern times. When you speak to the 2.5 million people who have been
:15:16. > :15:22.lifted out of taxation altogether because of the Liberal Democrats,
:15:22. > :15:31.speak to those who have had a £400 tax cut. You may be able to make the
:15:31. > :15:34.speak to those who have had a £400 connection, Andrew, you are a sharp
:15:34. > :15:38.observer, between a very deep economic crisis and difficulty for
:15:38. > :15:42.everybody. But it is clear that if the Tories had been by themselves,
:15:42. > :15:46.none of that would have happened. We have sought to shift the burden away
:15:47. > :15:49.from the poorest in this country. I am part of that. So when we go into
:15:49. > :15:53.the next election, the message will am part of that. So when we go into
:15:53. > :15:58.be that if you want to continue to have a prosperous economy and a
:15:58. > :16:07.society, only the Liberal Democrats will deliver that. Tim Farron says
:16:07. > :16:11.he likes Ed Miliband and he does not want to diss him. Can you confirm
:16:11. > :16:16.that there will be no dissing of Ed Miliband? It is not much my style.
:16:17. > :16:22.I've never much liked comments about the other leaders. I do not intend
:16:22. > :16:29.to make it so in the future. Can I'd finish up on Syria? You said after
:16:29. > :16:35.the Syria vote that Britain was a hugely diminished country. Given it
:16:35. > :16:38.was the British Parliament that said both sides on a course which could
:16:38. > :16:42.now see Syria give up chemical weapons without records to military
:16:42. > :16:45.action, would you like to withdraw these remarks and admit that you
:16:45. > :16:53.should be proud and happy with what Britain has done? No. You and I both
:16:53. > :16:58.know, because we are old observers, that that would never have happened
:16:58. > :17:01.unless there had been an underpinning of a threat to use
:17:01. > :17:06.force. The British Parliament resigned from that. We have no part
:17:06. > :17:08.to play in the fact that Assad and Putin have moved towards peace for
:17:08. > :17:09.to play in the fact that Assad and fear of military action. We decided
:17:10. > :17:14.not to be part of that. It is fear of military action. We decided
:17:14. > :17:17.exactly the opposite. Why would have liked to have seen our country join
:17:17. > :17:25.in with those who are serious about upholding an international law which
:17:25. > :17:31.has restrained even than axes and talent, but instead we resigned and
:17:31. > :17:38.left others to make sure that we moved towards peace. -- even the
:17:38. > :17:43.Maxis and Stalin. But if it had not been for the British Parliament, we
:17:43. > :17:49.would not have had the time to allow this to happen. It has avoided war.
:17:49. > :17:56.Job done, British Parliament. That would be true if it was accurate but
:17:57. > :18:02.it is not. The resolution proposed a delay, that we should wait until the
:18:02. > :18:03.inspectors came back. That time frame was absolutely nothing to do
:18:03. > :18:09.inspectors came back. That time with the parliamentary vote. The
:18:09. > :18:11.vote was going to incorporate that. I do not think you can claim what
:18:11. > :18:16.vote was going to incorporate that. you claim. In the Balkans, I
:18:16. > :18:19.remember that diplomacy, which was not reinforced by the threat of
:18:19. > :18:25.military action, does not work. It is when diplomacy runs with a grain
:18:25. > :18:28.of military action that it works. And if you want a fantastic
:18:28. > :18:32.illustration of that, look at what is happening over the last two
:18:32. > :18:36.weeks. By regret to say that our country, which has always been in
:18:36. > :18:43.favour of engagement and not disengagement, had no part to play
:18:43. > :18:46.in that. They give a joining us, Paddy Ashdown. Enjoy my old
:18:46. > :18:55.university city. And you we would get to the Balkans
:18:56. > :19:00.eventually, and we did. His biggest challenge is if the economy is
:19:00. > :19:03.looking reasonably good by 2015, to get some credit for the Lib Dems,
:19:03. > :19:08.when the Tories will want to halt it all. But his position is not to be
:19:08. > :19:12.the necessary axeman. That is George Osborne's role. Their role is to be
:19:12. > :19:16.the chaser party, taking the edge off. They will because of me going
:19:16. > :19:20.on about the pupil premium and racing people out of income tax.
:19:20. > :19:25.That is what you will hear from them, how they have taken the edge
:19:26. > :19:29.of the cuts. Will that work? They are in a pretty good position. Even
:19:29. > :19:33.if they have lost two thirds of the popular support, according to the
:19:33. > :19:37.polls, I do not know anyone in Westminster methinks that will be
:19:37. > :19:41.matched in their parliamentary representation. If they have 56 MPs
:19:41. > :19:48.now, they might lose a dozen but they will not be decimated.
:19:48. > :19:52.Strategically, they are in a better position than the reading of the
:19:52. > :19:55.polls would tell you. I think Nick Clegg's survival has been one of the
:19:55. > :20:02.stories of this Parliament. He is looking good at the comfort -- at
:20:02. > :20:07.the conference. When he was at his lowest after the AV referendum,
:20:07. > :20:10.people were saying he would survive and lead us into 2015 and beyond and
:20:10. > :20:15.I thought that was fanciful. Believe it or not... Paddy Ashdown was
:20:15. > :20:22.wrong, you were wrong and... I wasn't. I'm underestimated how bad
:20:22. > :20:27.his rivals are. If you are Lib Dem member, however aggrieved you are
:20:27. > :20:31.with Nick Clegg, you do not think, wouldn't it be great if Christian
:20:31. > :20:38.was in charge? Nick Clegg is the best they have. -- Chris Huhne was
:20:38. > :20:41.in charge. Of course, the people do not vote for the coalition
:20:41. > :20:45.government and it is a consequence of the way they vote, a different
:20:45. > :20:50.matter. If Janan Ganesh is right, and they lose 15 seats in the next
:20:50. > :20:54.election, they could be still pivotal in the next government. It
:20:55. > :20:58.could be. But there is a danger. Possibly the most amusing outcome
:20:58. > :21:01.would be a Labour or Tory overall majority, which would be hilarious
:21:01. > :21:07.for the look on Paddy Ashdown's face. The danger is they get trapped
:21:07. > :21:12.constantly in talking about the politics of coalition and of a hung
:21:12. > :21:17.parliament. And they are very puffed up and they enjoy Parliament and
:21:17. > :21:20.they will enjoy the next one, but up and they enjoy Parliament and
:21:20. > :21:25.there is a possibility they will not be. While they are talking about the
:21:25. > :21:28.Polish and themselves, they are not talking about the issues facing the
:21:28. > :21:35.country. -- talking about the coalition. It was interesting that
:21:35. > :21:39.he said that we are a left-wing party, not a centre-left party or a
:21:39. > :21:46.centre party, but a left-wing party. I'm going to put myself in the
:21:46. > :21:49.firing line and say that there is a big split between the Tim Farron
:21:49. > :21:53.firing line and say that there is a line who say they like Ed Miliband,
:21:53. > :21:56.and another one, Jeremy Browne in the Home Office saying that Labour
:21:57. > :22:05.are intellectually lazy. The risk clearly a clique around Nick Clegg
:22:06. > :22:08.who wants to be a synthetic party, but that is not where the membership
:22:08. > :22:12.who wants to be a synthetic party, and broad base is. The real
:22:12. > :22:17.activists are clearly of the left, not just the centre-left. They are
:22:17. > :22:22.very pro-immigration and they want to get rid of Trident. Mr Clegg's
:22:22. > :22:26.strategy has to be to take the party to the centre. The something not
:22:26. > :22:28.happen at some stage? The poll suggests it is a left-wing party.
:22:28. > :22:33.happen at some stage? The poll Very left-wing. Other think the poll
:22:33. > :22:41.would have yielded -- would have yielded the same results before the
:22:41. > :22:44.2010 election. This is reflected by the arithmetic. Whichever party is
:22:44. > :22:49.biggest will most likely be the ones in coalition with the Lib Dems. Nick
:22:49. > :22:58.Clegg's on latitude to choose is exaggerated by us. The choice is no
:22:58. > :23:03.tears, it is written into parliamentary arithmetic. But if you
:23:03. > :23:09.remember the structure of the Lib Dems, they can tie themselves up in
:23:09. > :23:15.infighting. -- the choice is not ours. They are fundamentally
:23:15. > :23:18.stable. And Nick Clegg has had a good conference last year, and will
:23:18. > :23:22.have another one this year. The economy is better than it was a year
:23:22. > :23:27.ago. It could still go quite well for him. Yes, it is one of the
:23:27. > :23:29.ago. It could still go quite well stories of this Parliament, his
:23:29. > :23:34.survival and the way in which he has prospered. But there are a lot of
:23:34. > :23:37.people out there, students, campaigners, labour activists who
:23:37. > :23:41.have not forgotten what he has done in government and are determined to
:23:41. > :23:47.get him. It will be a tough year and a half. Tougher than he imagined.
:23:47. > :23:50.Now, not so long ago they were writing George Osborne's political
:23:50. > :23:55.obituary. Be on the Omni shambles budget of 2012 and a lacklustre
:23:55. > :24:03.performance of the British economy meant his reputation work -- was in
:24:03. > :24:06.the dirt. -- the omnishambles. But things have changed. The Chancellor
:24:06. > :24:11.is saying he has been vindicated. If true, we're do that leave his
:24:11. > :24:15.critics? At your stuck on the runway, it looks as though the
:24:15. > :24:18.British economy has taken off, growing by 0.7% in
:24:18. > :24:21.British economy has taken off, quarter. Forecasts for the rest of
:24:21. > :24:25.the year have been revised up words. What's more, the office for National
:24:25. > :24:31.statistics says that the double-dip recession never actually happened.
:24:31. > :24:33.Unemployment is down in the three months to July and the number of
:24:33. > :24:36.people claiming jobseeker's months to July and the number of
:24:36. > :24:40.allowance is falling at its months to July and the number of
:24:40. > :24:44.spasticity rate since 1997. On Monday, George Osborne said his
:24:44. > :24:50.policies were bearing fruit. We held our nerve when many told us to
:24:50. > :24:54.abandon our plans. As a result, thanks to the efforts and sacrifices
:24:55. > :25:01.of the British people, Britain is turning a corner. The message for
:25:01. > :25:06.his Labour critics was clear. The Chancellor thinks he was right and
:25:07. > :25:08.they were wrong. And Chuka Umunna joins me now for the Sunday
:25:08. > :25:19.interview. Good afternoon. Good afternoon.Do
:25:19. > :25:23.you accept that the economy has turned a corner? I think it is good
:25:23. > :25:25.that a stalled recovery appears to have come back to life, but let's
:25:25. > :25:29.that a stalled recovery appears to get this in perspective. We have had
:25:29. > :25:35.three wasted years. We have the worst economic recovery in history.
:25:35. > :25:39.Debt is up and we have record youth unemployment. If you ask your
:25:39. > :25:43.viewers who are watching this programme if they feel better or
:25:43. > :25:48.worse off, compared to 2010, the majority will tell you they feel
:25:48. > :25:55.worse because, on average, wages are down by £1500 compared to May of
:25:55. > :25:58.2010. That is the situation. The questionnaires, what is the
:25:58. > :26:03.government going to do about it? And one of the things we have seen
:26:03. > :26:07.talked about, Vince Cable has been talking about this as well, is what
:26:07. > :26:11.is happening in the housing market. It seems that much of the solution
:26:11. > :26:16.to powering the recovery in the eyes of George Osborne lies in sorting
:26:16. > :26:19.out the housing market but the problem is, we are at risk of being
:26:19. > :26:21.out the housing market but the another housing bubble. Because of
:26:21. > :26:26.out the housing market but the research that came out this week, we
:26:26. > :26:28.know that housing in the UK is three times more expensive than in the US.
:26:28. > :26:32.know that housing in the UK is three We know that house prices are rising
:26:32. > :26:36.five times faster than wages, but we also know that the government is
:26:36. > :26:40.five times faster than wages, but we building new housing at a slower
:26:40. > :26:46.rate, the slowest rate that we have seen since the 1920s. Labour
:26:46. > :26:53.complaining about a housing bubble, isn't that like Satan complaining
:26:53. > :26:56.about seven? -- seven. We all know that we cannot go back to business
:26:56. > :27:02.as usual. We need to build a new model of growth. But the housing
:27:02. > :27:07.bubble you talk about, it is not a bubble. It might turn into one. I
:27:07. > :27:10.said the risk of a bubble. It is nothing like what happened on the
:27:10. > :27:13.labourer when the prices soared. As I said, in 2009, we had the crash
:27:13. > :27:17.labourer when the prices soared. As and we knew we needed to reconfigure
:27:17. > :27:22.the way that our economy works. Having an economy based on crisis is
:27:22. > :27:27.not a good thing. We need to rebalance the economy. We saw the
:27:27. > :27:30.unemployment statistics this week, and it is welcomed overall, that
:27:30. > :27:36.climate has come down -- unemployment has come down. At half
:27:36. > :27:42.of the UK has seen unemployment go up. And it went down in other parts.
:27:42. > :27:49.We know that we need to rebalance our economy, so that we do not just
:27:49. > :27:53.rely on consumption, but that we grow our productive sectors. And
:27:53. > :28:01.also that we grow our exports as well. We know we have a continuing
:28:01. > :28:12.deficit. We always have a trade deficit. There was never a trade
:28:12. > :28:15.surplus under Labour. Want to come onto what you have mentioned but
:28:15. > :28:19.would you scrap the help to buy scheme? We have not said that we
:28:19. > :28:25.would do that. Why not if it is causing the bubble? If you let me
:28:25. > :28:31.finish, on one hand what that scheme does at the moment, at the moment it
:28:31. > :28:36.is inhalation to a new scheme but tomorrow -- next year it will be in
:28:36. > :28:39.relation to the existing scheme. If you do not sort out the supply of
:28:39. > :28:44.housing, then that is a recipe for the problems we have seen. Our
:28:44. > :28:47.argument is build more houses. Help more people to buy them by all means
:28:47. > :28:53.but if you do not have the supply you will end up with rising prices.
:28:53. > :28:56.That is obvious. Labour said that government austerity would prevent
:28:56. > :29:01.the return of growth. Austerity is still with us but so is growth. You
:29:01. > :29:02.were wrong. We never said that growth would never return. What we
:29:02. > :29:06.said was that if you went for an growth would never return. What we
:29:06. > :29:08.overly extreme deficit reduction package, you would choke the
:29:08. > :29:14.recovery and you would choke growth. package, you would choke the
:29:14. > :29:22.That is what we saw for three years. If you say, look at the US economy,
:29:22. > :29:27.it has grown at three times the rate of the UK economy. The German
:29:27. > :29:29.economy has grown at twice the rate. But the British economy is growing
:29:29. > :29:34.quicker than the American or German economy is now. But over time we
:29:34. > :29:41.have not seen that happen. But it is now. That may be the case. But my
:29:41. > :29:45.point is that those three years saw people undergoing huge stress and
:29:45. > :29:49.worry. It is good that we have growth back again but the question
:29:49. > :29:55.is, what kind of growth? What we have said... I'm going to come onto
:29:55. > :29:56.that but your credibility depends on your previous analysis. And there
:29:56. > :30:01.that but your credibility depends on are doubts about it. This is what
:30:01. > :30:06.you said not that long ago. In 2012. Our economy has flat lined
:30:06. > :30:31.near the 0% mark... You and the Labour Party said it had
:30:31. > :30:36.choked off growth. You were wrong. We were not wrong, because we had
:30:36. > :30:40.three years where the economy was not moving. Let's remind ourselves.
:30:40. > :30:44.Claude Osborne was predicting that the economy was going to grow by
:30:44. > :30:50.6.9% between the start of this Parliament and now. It has grown by
:30:50. > :30:57.1.8%. We did not say we would never have a return to growth. You never
:30:57. > :31:01.said that austerity would only temporarily delay growth. We have
:31:02. > :31:06.looked through your speeches and Ed Balls'. We can't find any reference
:31:06. > :31:14.to say this is simply delaying the recovery. You said austerity would
:31:14. > :31:18.choke off growth. If that is true, why has it returned now? Did we say
:31:18. > :31:27.it would choke off growth for ever? why has it returned now? Did we say
:31:27. > :31:31.We did not. You have changed your tune. I think your package at the
:31:31. > :31:36.top of this programme, to frame this around George Osborne, this is not a
:31:36. > :31:40.Westminster soap opera, it is people's lives, and the people who
:31:40. > :31:46.deserve huge credit for the growth we are seeing are our country's
:31:47. > :31:50.businesses, who despite the tough economic times, have succeeded. They
:31:50. > :31:56.are the ones who have powered this growth. It is not for us in
:31:56. > :32:02.Westminster to take credit. But you blame the government for lack of
:32:02. > :32:06.growth. So therefore, when the growth comes, the government has to
:32:06. > :32:10.take some credit. Look at the situation Britain is in now. We know
:32:10. > :32:16.the recovery still has to reach many parts of the country, but this is
:32:16. > :32:25.the OECD annualised growth in the G-7, the world's guest economies.
:32:25. > :32:31.That is looking pretty healthy. That is a recovery. I am not denying that
:32:31. > :32:33.That is looking pretty healthy. That we are seeing a stalled recovery,
:32:33. > :32:39.That is looking pretty healthy. That but who benefits from the growth? On
:32:39. > :32:48.average, your viewers have sustained a £1500 pay cut. That is the second
:32:48. > :32:55.biggest fall in the G20 since May 2010. Because we had the biggest
:32:55. > :32:59.financial services sector and took the biggest crash. Financial
:32:59. > :33:07.services are still in decline. Financial services are about 10% of
:33:07. > :33:13.the economy. They are not the only contributor to the economy. The
:33:13. > :33:17.point is, who benefits? Unemployment is falling, but we don't just want
:33:17. > :33:21.people to have any job, we want them to have decent jobs that pay a
:33:21. > :33:28.weight you can live off and that are more secure. Let me show you the
:33:28. > :33:34.unemployment figures. Your criticism has been that all the new jobs are
:33:34. > :33:37.part-time. They are not now, they are full-time. Full-time
:33:38. > :33:46.unemployment, up -- full-time employment, up 94,000. This is a
:33:47. > :33:51.short time frame. It is since the recovery began. Half the jobs that
:33:51. > :33:57.have been created since May 2010 have been part-time jobs. Roughly
:33:57. > :34:02.107,000 people are working part-time who would like to work full-time.
:34:02. > :34:04.Over the last 20 years, people now feel more insecure at work than
:34:04. > :34:08.ever. The question is about what feel more insecure at work than
:34:08. > :34:14.kind of growth and employment you are getting. The other point is the
:34:14. > :34:22.uneven spread of this across our economy. In places like the
:34:22. > :34:30.north-east and north-west, the Humber, the east of England, they
:34:30. > :34:34.have seen unemployment increase. I agree that there was a regional
:34:34. > :34:40.imbalance, but the service sector is growing, cheering and construction
:34:40. > :34:45.are growing and financial services are in decline, so the rebalance is
:34:45. > :34:49.happening. It is not happening to the degree we need to transform our
:34:49. > :34:54.economy so that we have a long-term, sustainable model of
:34:54. > :34:56.growth. That is why we need a comprehensive industrial strategy
:34:56. > :35:05.that all of government works towards. Your party conference is
:35:05. > :35:09.coming up. I am sure you are looking forward to it. Why do Ed Miliband's
:35:09. > :35:21.approval ratings get worse the more people see of him? I don't accept
:35:21. > :35:26.that. I have given you the figures. Polls go up and down. I have said
:35:26. > :35:34.that on this programme before. But his approval rating has consistently
:35:34. > :35:35.gone down. What actually matters our votes. Under Ed Miliband's
:35:35. > :35:39.leadership, the Labour Party have votes. Under Ed Miliband's
:35:39. > :35:51.put on almost 2000 extra councillors in places like Canada case, even
:35:51. > :35:57.Whitney. What is wrong with Whitney? We have been putting on votes. Let
:35:57. > :36:01.me show you this. This is the net satisfaction rating. Your leader is
:36:01. > :36:07.now more unpopular than Gordon Brown was when he took Labour to the worst
:36:07. > :36:14.defeat in living memory. Gordon Brown did not put on anything like
:36:14. > :36:21.this number of councillors. Votes are what matter, Andrew. Few people
:36:21. > :36:26.think Ed Miliband is a capable leader. Twice as many people think
:36:26. > :36:32.over Spurs who lives on the moon. These are polls. If you are talking
:36:32. > :36:39.to me about over Spurs lit, that puts this into context, Europe
:36:39. > :36:44.session with polls! -- Elvis Presley. Since 2010, we have put on
:36:44. > :36:48.thousands of members. Compare that to the Conservative Party, which has
:36:48. > :36:59.not won a general election since 1992. They will not disclose their
:36:59. > :37:03.membership figures. Why -- why won't you pledge to renationalise Royal
:37:03. > :37:06.Mail? Because that would be like writing a blank cheque. We don't
:37:06. > :37:09.know at the moment how much the government would receive for the
:37:09. > :37:14.sale of Royal Mail? So how can I judge how much it would cost to buy
:37:14. > :37:17.it back? That would be irresponsible. But the government
:37:17. > :37:24.does not need to do this right now. The entire country is against it.
:37:24. > :37:27.Sources in the City and Whitehall tell me that if Labour pledged to
:37:27. > :37:35.renationalise it, it would kill off the flotation. So if you are against
:37:35. > :37:37.it, why don't you do it? For me to pledge to renationalise Royal Mail
:37:37. > :37:44.would be like writing a blank cheque. But if you put it in the
:37:44. > :37:50.prospectus, people in the City, who know more about these things, say it
:37:50. > :37:54.would not happen, so why not do it? Because that would be irresponsible.
:37:54. > :37:59.It would be like writing a cheque for billions to renationalise Royal
:37:59. > :38:05.Mail. You would not have too right at the check if it did not happen. I
:38:05. > :38:09.have to deal with the facts. I am not good deal with the plot somebody
:38:09. > :38:15.might be speculating about in the City. We have to be careful about
:38:15. > :38:19.this. For me to pledge to renationalise it now would be like
:38:19. > :38:22.writing a bank cheque . We are going to be a fiscally responsible
:38:22. > :38:28.government. That is why I am not prepared to do that. Ed Balls will
:38:28. > :38:30.not be talking to you. You are watching the Sunday Politics. Coming
:38:30. > :38:47.up in 20 minutes, On the Sunday Politics Wales, the
:38:47. > :38:54.leader of the Welsh Conservatives says that other parties failed to
:38:54. > :38:57.get the best out of budget deals with the Welsh government. We will
:38:57. > :39:03.get the view from Glasgow as the Welsh Lib Dem leader rallies the
:39:03. > :39:10.troops at her party's, but -- party's conference. Let's begin with
:39:10. > :39:17.post office Royal Mail privatisation. The Communication
:39:17. > :39:20.Workers Union say that strikes are inevitable. Labour opposed the
:39:20. > :39:27.privatisation but they have -- the government have been clear that this
:39:27. > :39:32.privatisation is going to happen. It is extremely disappointed that --
:39:32. > :39:38.disappointing that the government has legislated for this to happen.
:39:38. > :39:43.We are being asked to buy back what we already own. The people who got
:39:43. > :39:46.us into the financial mess in 2008 are going to make a killing out of
:39:46. > :39:56.this because they will buy up the shares cheap, sell off the prime
:39:56. > :40:10.assets and then the Royal mail service will be even worse off than
:40:10. > :40:15.it is at the moment. As Lee Hayes pointed out on the Andrew Marr show,
:40:15. > :40:19.if the London tube can have permission to raise money in order
:40:19. > :40:25.to invest, why can't Royal Mail? Clearly they need investment to keep
:40:25. > :40:33.pace with modernisation but this is not the way to do it. The Royal Mail
:40:33. > :40:39.is in profit, why does it need privatisation? I think it is the
:40:39. > :40:44.only thing we can do under the circumstances. The mail industry has
:40:44. > :40:50.been deregulated over the past few years, Royal Mail Haft to face
:40:50. > :40:56.competition for parcels and bulk mail and I have struggled to bring
:40:56. > :41:04.in the investment needed. -- Bay have to face. In terms of the staff,
:41:04. > :41:09.I understand why they will be concerns but we are looking at a
:41:09. > :41:14.model of cooperative working, where staff will receive 10% of the
:41:14. > :41:20.shares, which is a major part in the see of the future of the Royal Mail.
:41:20. > :41:25.When they consider the package being put in front of them I hope they
:41:25. > :41:30.consider what an alternative future but the Royal Mail would look like.
:41:30. > :41:35.This is just too sweet and an unacceptable policy. The leader of
:41:35. > :41:38.the Welsh Conservatives says that other opposition parties in the
:41:38. > :41:44.Assembly failed to get the best out of budget deals with the Welsh
:41:44. > :41:51.government. Andrew RT Davies said he will not settle for chicken feed
:41:51. > :41:57.but, with Plaid Cymru and the Liberal Democrats agreeing with
:41:57. > :42:11.cooperate, where does that leave the Conservatives?
:42:11. > :42:15.Andrew RT Davies is gearing up for a new Assembly term and the Welsh
:42:15. > :42:20.government's draft budget on the 8th of October. That budget will not go
:42:20. > :42:26.anywhere and less Labour get help from another party. It has relied on
:42:26. > :42:32.Plaid Cymru and the Lib Dems so far but how much does the Tory leader
:42:32. > :42:36.think they have got from it? If you have two -- you want to settle for
:42:36. > :42:43.chicken feed, that is for others to decide. I do not believe that there
:42:43. > :42:48.is pressure on the Welsh government. A farmer and a politician, he says
:42:48. > :42:54.he will work with anybody but not if it means joining what he calls the
:42:54. > :42:58.left wing club. What I want to deliver from the centre-right is
:42:58. > :43:02.ambition, hope and opportunity and I will continue to map out the
:43:02. > :43:06.alternative, which is what we have done in the first two years of this
:43:06. > :43:10.Assembly by bringing forward policies like grammar schools,
:43:10. > :43:15.regenerating the high streets, making sure our policies are a real
:43:15. > :43:21.alternative to the cosy politics of the left wing club. The arithmetic
:43:21. > :43:24.in the Assembly means that the opposition could gang up on car when
:43:24. > :43:30.Jones and make things difficult for his minority government. With two of
:43:30. > :43:34.the opposition leaders saying they will work together, does it mean
:43:34. > :43:41.Andrew RT Davies will have to plough his own furrow? In June, Plaid
:43:41. > :43:46.Cymru's leader and the Lib Dems' Kirsty Williams said they would team
:43:46. > :43:51.up for the budget negotiations. I understand ministers have already
:43:51. > :43:56.reached out to them over the summer. The deal with Labour last November
:43:56. > :44:01.is worth about £50 million over two years but when the Welsh government
:44:01. > :44:06.spends more than £14 billion every year was she bought off with small
:44:06. > :44:12.change? I am not getting into trading with the Tories. We have a
:44:12. > :44:18.set of proposals that we look forward to working with the Lib Dems
:44:18. > :44:22.in good time. The leader of the Tories in Wales is in a position
:44:22. > :44:29.either to support or not support whatever proposal we put forward and
:44:29. > :44:33.when he is in a position to negotiate and do deals himself he is
:44:33. > :44:38.in a position to trade insults but until then he is not in a good
:44:38. > :44:45.position. Mr Davies says he gets one well enough with a Plaid Cymru and
:44:45. > :44:52.Lib Dem leaders but it is a far cry from the plans for an -- a rainbow
:44:52. > :44:58.coalition six years ago. Ultimately I can deliver my 14 members as a
:44:58. > :45:04.voting bloc. Where we have been able to work together, in the budget
:45:04. > :45:07.rounds, managing a vote of no-confidence the government, the
:45:07. > :45:15.Ting pressure on the previous Education Minister, toughening up
:45:15. > :45:21.legislation. -- putting pressure on. Where we can do that, we are driving
:45:21. > :45:26.the agenda. He believes that he can make things difficult for Labour
:45:26. > :45:29.before the next general election. He does not believe that Plaid Cymru
:45:29. > :45:35.and the Lib Dems have left him out in the cold but will they want to
:45:35. > :45:42.work at him when he is taking a dig at his budget deals?
:45:43. > :45:51.Is settling for chicken feed your aim for autumn? We have negotiated a
:45:51. > :46:01.deal that has targeted £16 million at the poorest children. That is not
:46:01. > :46:07.much out of a £14.5 billion budget. I do not agree with him. -- the
:46:07. > :46:12.money invested in the pupil premium has had a massive impact on our most
:46:12. > :46:17.deprived communities. There are schools in our region, they have had
:46:17. > :46:24.thousands of pounds of extra funding as a result of the deal we did. That
:46:24. > :46:29.money has gone into employing extra teachers to make sure children who
:46:29. > :46:33.are falling behind are able to catch up, to supporting children with
:46:33. > :46:36.special educational needs, to investing in resources. It is about
:46:36. > :46:44.giving young people the best start in life on it is working and it is
:46:44. > :46:50.not insignificant. -- in life, it is working. It suits the Labour
:46:50. > :47:01.government to give as little money as well, doesn't it -- is money --
:47:01. > :47:07.as little money as way -- away as you can. Whatever we do we have to
:47:07. > :47:10.make sure we use resources carefully. The pupil depravation
:47:10. > :47:16.Grant is an important way of enabling all of our children to have
:47:16. > :47:20.the best chance in life but that does not mean there is no room for
:47:20. > :47:25.improvement in how schools are using it. I think Andrew RT Davies is very
:47:25. > :47:30.good at making pompous statements but frankly it is unlikely that we
:47:30. > :47:34.are going to be able to reach and work -- an arrangement with the
:47:34. > :47:40.Conservatives because they have shown little interest in making sure
:47:40. > :47:54.that we protect the most vulnerable in Wales. Obviously Carwyn Jones
:47:54. > :48:00.will be talking to the Conservatives and Plaid Cymru. Andrew RT Davies
:48:00. > :48:05.says he would like to make a deal with the government. Your party
:48:06. > :48:14.leader and Leanne Wood have joined forces that these discussions. What
:48:14. > :48:19.chance Andrew RT Davies joining in? If he wants to come to the table
:48:19. > :48:23.with a realistic and not properly costed oppose all that will improve
:48:23. > :48:27.the lives of people in Wales there is no reason why any of the parties
:48:27. > :48:33.in the Assembly would not work with him. To date he has not been able to
:48:33. > :48:36.do that. He seems to enjoy the knock-about party more than the
:48:36. > :48:52.serious business of improving people' lives. -- people's lives.
:48:52. > :48:59.They say it will be 1% of the budget. Is that true? We have to do
:48:59. > :49:03.what we can with the money available and I do not think that is
:49:03. > :49:07.realistic. I am confident that Carwyn Jones can reach an agreement.
:49:07. > :49:12.Conference season is under way, kicked off by the Liberal Democrats,
:49:12. > :49:15.who are meeting in Glasgow. Our correspondent has been speaking to
:49:15. > :49:22.the leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats.
:49:22. > :49:25.In Glasgow the Lib Dems are gearing up for the next UK general
:49:25. > :49:30.election, little more than 18 months away. Kirsty Williams is the leader
:49:31. > :49:39.of the Welsh Lib Dems. So far in Scotland we have had an announcement
:49:39. > :49:44.is -- announcements on school uniform in England, other things in
:49:44. > :49:51.England, is there any point in the Welsh Lib Dems being here? Of
:49:51. > :49:54.course, because some things are not evolved to Wales and we rely on
:49:54. > :50:01.Westminster to get those things right. Yesterday I was talking about
:50:01. > :50:04.plans to give small businesses in England and Wales and National
:50:04. > :50:08.Insurance contribution break to help them take on members of staff. We
:50:08. > :50:14.are pushing to realise our dreams of a fairer taxation system, moving the
:50:14. > :50:19.threshold up so that people on lower incomes can keep more of their
:50:19. > :50:26.money. Where would you get the money for that? Over 100,000 people in
:50:26. > :50:32.Wales who were previously paying income taxes are now able to keep
:50:32. > :50:37.that money. We have over 1 million taxpayers who have a tax break of
:50:37. > :50:42.£700. We are talking about the ability to push that further so that
:50:42. > :50:46.nobody on minimum wage should be paying income tax at all. We have
:50:46. > :50:54.achieved that and it will only be achieved if we are in government. Is
:50:54. > :50:59.that a red line or like university tuition fees, which you will dump
:50:59. > :51:03.when you get in coalition? The number one manifesto commitment we
:51:03. > :51:07.stood on was to create the fairer taxation system and we have done
:51:07. > :51:13.that. We had commitments on the triple lock for pensioners... But I
:51:13. > :51:17.would quite like to know if this new policy of extending it to people on
:51:17. > :51:25.the minimum wage is a cast-iron commitment. It will be in our
:51:25. > :51:29.manifesto and we will see who people vote for in the next general
:51:29. > :51:34.election. We have 600 days before that general election and we are all
:51:34. > :51:41.about demonstrating that we can produce a stronger economy and a
:51:41. > :51:46.fairer society. In a survey of Lib Dem councillors, by and large they
:51:46. > :51:53.would rather you were in coalition with Labour. Is that your view? At
:51:53. > :51:57.the last election no party won an overall majority and my colleagues
:51:57. > :52:01.took a brave decision to create a stable government with a majority.
:52:01. > :52:04.It was not possible to do that with the Labour Party. At the next
:52:04. > :52:11.election we will see what the people of the UK deliver and work with
:52:11. > :52:18.other parties to form a strong government. What would be your
:52:18. > :52:25.preference as a Lib Dem leader in Wales, somebody who will play a big
:52:25. > :52:28.role in the election campaign? My job as a person responsible for
:52:28. > :52:32.helping to deliver the campaign is to make sure that as many people as
:52:32. > :52:36.possible here the Lib Dem message of what we have achieved in this
:52:36. > :52:44.government, lifting people out of tax, creating jobs... You don't mind
:52:44. > :52:50.who you end up in government with? I want to deliver as many Lib Dems as
:52:50. > :52:57.possible to Westminster. I am not going to get an answer, and I? You
:52:57. > :53:01.have to wait and see who the people of the UK decide. We want to create
:53:01. > :53:07.a strong economy, get people back to work but make sure our society is
:53:07. > :53:11.there, that everybody has a chance to get on. We can only do that by
:53:11. > :53:15.having the Liberal Democrats in government after 2015. Before then
:53:15. > :53:20.you have the Welsh government budget. Andrew RT Davies has said
:53:20. > :53:27.that you have settled in the past for chicken feed, for small policies
:53:27. > :53:32.that do not cost much money? That is an indictment of how the Welsh
:53:32. > :53:37.Conservatives feel about the poorest in our society. We have achieved
:53:37. > :53:42.additional money for education for our poorest students. Teachers and
:53:42. > :53:47.pupils I need do not describe that as chicken feed. It says more about
:53:47. > :53:51.the attitude of the Conservatives towards education and the poorest in
:53:51. > :53:56.society then it does about the Lib Dems. We are giving people a chance
:53:56. > :54:00.to get on and we want more money for the poorest children, for their sake
:54:00. > :54:04.and for the sake of the Welsh economy. If the Tories are not
:54:04. > :54:09.interested in that, that is disappointing but I am not changing
:54:09. > :54:14.my tack, I care about the poorest children and a stronger economy in
:54:14. > :54:24.Wales. Is education a priority view going into the next set of
:54:24. > :54:30.negotiations? Of course. Why should a poor student in Wrexham get £50
:54:30. > :54:36.extra than if they were over the border in Wales. Worst children are
:54:36. > :54:42.in danger of being left behind. -- Welsh children. Education used to be
:54:42. > :54:46.something we prided ourselves on but after a decade of Labour rule in
:54:46. > :54:53.Cardiff we have slipped behind. I want to start with the children who
:54:53. > :54:55.need help most and that is the poorest children. We will continue
:54:55. > :55:02.pressing the Welsh Labour government to do the right thing by Wales'
:55:02. > :55:08.children. Time will tell whether she enjoys
:55:08. > :55:12.her weak or not. Let's look to the future rather than into the past.
:55:12. > :55:18.Come the next election, if there was a hung parliament where would you
:55:18. > :55:25.rather your party nailed your flag? We are party of the centre ground so
:55:25. > :55:28.we are prepared to work with politicians from either side to get
:55:28. > :55:34.the best for people. We have done that in Westminster, the only way to
:55:34. > :55:38.form a stable government. We have done that in Wales with the Labour
:55:38. > :55:42.Party to deliver things like the pupil premium which is having a
:55:42. > :55:48.massive impact on the futures of Welsh children. So no answer there.
:55:48. > :55:53.Jenny Rathbone, Kirsty Williams was scathing of education in Wales.
:55:53. > :56:00.Perhaps a peculiar starting position for negotiations. We all recognise
:56:00. > :56:04.that we need to improve our education system and the Welsh
:56:04. > :56:09.government is improving it. She is blaming the Welsh Labour government
:56:09. > :56:13.for the state of it. That is the kind of thing people do in politics.
:56:13. > :56:18.We recognise we have to do better, we have to make sure we are doing at
:56:18. > :56:24.least as well as the UK, that we have ambitions to do much better
:56:24. > :56:27.than that. We need to have a skilled workforce and we are putting in
:56:27. > :56:38.place a huge amount of effort to make sure more students are studying
:56:38. > :56:43.maths, engineering, those subjects, so we need to make sure our
:56:43. > :56:49.education service is serving the needs of individual pupils and also
:56:49. > :56:53.the needs of our economy. Let's move back to the Lib Dems. We heard the
:56:53. > :57:03.party chairman saying that Ed Miliband was a nice guy. He also
:57:03. > :57:10.said he was an ethical guy and and effective guy. Are you pleased to
:57:10. > :57:17.hear the Lib Dems reaching out to your party? Clearly the Lib Dems are
:57:17. > :57:21.split on that. Kirsty Williams sat on the fence but the Lib Dems as a
:57:21. > :57:24.group of individuals, at least half of them would prefer to be in
:57:24. > :57:33.alliance with the Labour Party as opposed to a government that has
:57:33. > :57:38.delivered a bedroom tax... But the Liberal Democrats are talking about
:57:38. > :57:43.the economy. They are also talking about the bedroom tax. People
:57:43. > :57:50.realise this is appalling policy. Not only does it make sure that the
:57:50. > :57:57.very poorest are made even poorer, it is also going to increase the
:57:57. > :58:05.bill for housing benefit. Or so the attitude towards immigration. --
:58:05. > :58:10.also. Nick Clegg is washing his hands of these vans going around
:58:10. > :58:15.saying, hand yourselves in before we arrest you. I think the Liberal
:58:15. > :58:19.Democrats have difficult decisions ahead but I know that my
:58:19. > :58:24.constituents, after 2010 they said, we did not vote Liberal Democrat to
:58:24. > :58:34.have a Tory government, so in 2011 they voted Labour. The UK population
:58:34. > :58:41.did not endorse Gordon Brown government, he was roundly rejected
:58:41. > :58:45.at the election. We could not form a stable government with the Labour
:58:45. > :58:52.Party. Gordon Brown had in roundly rejected. We are party of the centre
:58:52. > :58:57.ground with or own identity. We are liberals, we have an identity and
:58:57. > :59:02.ideology unique to us and we are able to work with both sides. It is
:59:02. > :59:06.not a question of being in the closet about which side we would
:59:06. > :59:12.like to work with, it is about being independent and pragmatic. We are
:59:12. > :59:21.going to have to leave you. Time to have a quick look at the political
:59:21. > :59:29.stories in 60 seconds. Swansea born former Shadow Welsh
:59:29. > :59:33.Secretary Nigel Evans resigned after being charged with eight sexual
:59:33. > :59:36.offences. He said he would robustly defend his innocence and sit as an
:59:36. > :59:39.independent while the case continues.
:59:39. > :59:44.Finance Minister said the Welsh government would take steps to
:59:44. > :59:53.outlaw companies that lack the list when recruiting. -- the use
:59:53. > :00:00.blacklisting. The Shadow Welsh Secretary said
:00:00. > :00:05.privatisation was politically motivated and was aimed at filling
:00:05. > :00:09.the whole of the Chancellor's failed economic plan. George Osborne said
:00:09. > :00:13.privatisation would bring in a brilliant savers.
:00:13. > :00:19.Rosemary Butler was named as Assembly Member of the year. The
:00:19. > :00:25.Newport West Assembly Member is the first ever Presiding Officer of the
:00:25. > :00:42.devolved institution in the UK. -- a devolved institution. -- female
:00:42. > :00:46.residing officer. -- presiding. I know it is very important for all
:00:47. > :00:50.of us and us in Wales because the outcome of the Scottish referendum
:00:50. > :00:59.could leave to the whole of the UK unravelling. As Baroness Kennedy was
:00:59. > :01:03.saying this morning on the papers show, there has not been a lot of
:01:03. > :01:09.coverage about this important for random in the UK papers. Your party
:01:09. > :01:14.are a federal party, I suppose you will not support independence. We
:01:14. > :01:19.believe the nations of the UK are stronger together. But it does open
:01:19. > :01:25.up the question of what is the nature of the relationship between
:01:25. > :01:28.the nations. The nature of devolution in Wales is different to
:01:28. > :01:32.Scotland. We would like to see that situation discussed. That is all
:01:32. > :01:43.Scotland. We would like to see that more than pay is going up. Which
:01:43. > :01:50.deserves a programme all to itself. In a moment, more from our political
:01:50. > :01:52.panel, but first the news. Good afternoon. Nick Clegg says
:01:52. > :01:56.victory for either the Conservatives Good afternoon. Nick Clegg says
:01:56. > :02:00.or labour at the next election would put at risk the economic recovery
:02:00. > :02:01.is. Speaking in Glasgow at the Liberal Democrat annual conference,
:02:01. > :02:05.he said a coalition would allow his Liberal Democrat annual conference,
:02:05. > :02:10.party to balance politics and enable the government to finish the job of
:02:10. > :02:15.repairing the economy fairly. It is my genuine belief that if we go back
:02:15. > :02:18.to the bad old days, not of coalition and Islands politics, but
:02:18. > :02:23.of either the left or right dominating blood on their own, you
:02:23. > :02:25.will get a recovery which is neither fair nor sustainable. Labour would
:02:25. > :02:27.wreck the recovery, and under the fair nor sustainable. Labour would
:02:27. > :02:29.Conservatives, who don't have fair nor sustainable. Labour would
:02:29. > :02:35.same commitment to fairness as ours, you would get the wrong kind
:02:35. > :02:38.of recovery. Two 19-year-old woman arrested after
:02:38. > :02:42.a stabbing on Thursday have been released without charge. Police are
:02:42. > :02:46.trying to discover if there is a link between the killing and a fire
:02:46. > :02:50.four hours later in which four members of the same family died.
:02:50. > :02:53.Five people are being questioned in connection with that blaze. A Syrian
:02:53. > :02:58.government minister has described the agreement drawn up by America
:02:58. > :02:59.and Russia to dispose of his country's chemical weapons as a
:02:59. > :03:04.victory. The minister claims the deals helps
:03:04. > :03:08.the Syrians out of a crisis and others war. The US Secretary of
:03:08. > :03:11.State John Kerry is in Israel to brief the prime minister, Benjamin
:03:11. > :03:15.Netanyahu, on the proposal. China and France have also welcomed the
:03:15. > :03:20.deal, which says Syria has until Friday to submit a competence of
:03:20. > :03:25.list of its chemical stockpile. Britain's Mo Farah has missed out on
:03:25. > :03:27.winning his first half marathon by around one second.
:03:27. > :03:32.He was taking part in the Great North Run between Newcastle and
:03:32. > :03:35.South Shields. Farrar, who was the favourite following his two gold
:03:35. > :03:41.medals at the athletics World Championships, lost out to
:03:41. > :03:46.Ethiopian's can mean many Serb -- Kenenisa Bekele in a sprint finish.
:03:46. > :03:50.A carnival atmosphere for the start of the 33rd Great North Run.
:03:51. > :03:53.Thousands limbered up. For some, it was about the challenge. For others,
:03:53. > :03:58.simply dressing up for fun. I am was about the challenge. For others,
:03:58. > :04:02.walking it, so I have no time in mind. I just want to enjoy it and
:04:02. > :04:09.appreciate the crowds and have a fantastic time. For elite athletes,
:04:09. > :04:13.today's race was about who would be first over the line. Despite the
:04:13. > :04:17.wind and rain, large crowds turned out for the world's most popular
:04:17. > :04:25.half marathon, which attracts some of the finest women runners, two,
:04:26. > :04:29.including the Kenyan. There were high hopes for Britain's double
:04:29. > :04:31.Olympic champion Mo Farah, but after a long sprint finish in South
:04:31. > :04:38.Olympic champion Mo Farah, but after Shields, he was narrowly beaten
:04:38. > :04:45.Ethiopian's Kenenisa Bekele. It was a great race and a great finish. I
:04:45. > :04:49.thought the pace was ridiculous. I thought I would come back and close
:04:49. > :04:54.the gap slowly. I managed to close it a little bit, but you can't take
:04:54. > :05:00.away what he has. Wheelchair athlete David Weir won his race for a fourth
:05:00. > :05:06.time. More than £200 million has been raised since the Great North
:05:06. > :05:16.Run began in 1981. That is it for now. There will be
:05:16. > :05:19.more news on BBC One at 6:35pm. So, did anything happen while we
:05:19. > :05:25.were away this summer? I thought not. Whereas British politics
:05:25. > :05:29.heading now? Who better to answer than the best political panel we
:05:29. > :05:34.could cobble together for a tenner? Even then, they are overpaid.
:05:34. > :05:38.Putting foreign affairs to one side for a moment, it seems that what
:05:38. > :05:42.happened mystically was that it became more apparent that some sort
:05:42. > :05:48.of recovery was underway at last, and that Mr Miliband still has not
:05:48. > :05:55.yet resonated with the British public. These things are a problem
:05:55. > :05:59.for Labour. Ed Miliband's mistake over the summer holiday was to take
:05:59. > :06:03.a summer holiday. And it looked like the rest of the Labour Party had
:06:03. > :06:07.taken one too. They were not finding issues they could make their own.
:06:07. > :06:11.The only person who made an impact was Stella Creasy on online abuse.
:06:11. > :06:15.That is a huge problem, and it is partly down to the fact that there
:06:15. > :06:19.is this intense message discipline. They don't want to say anything out
:06:19. > :06:23.of line until they have got all their ducks in a row. It makes the
:06:23. > :06:28.party do at the moment. The terms of trade have swung in David Cameron's
:06:28. > :06:33.favour, but the political rhetoric is still with Mr Miliband. Let's
:06:33. > :06:41.look at this headline from the Sunday Telegraph. That headline
:06:41. > :06:46.might not be right, but the story is Sunday Telegraph. That headline
:06:46. > :06:49.significant in that Mr Cameron is still in danger on his right flank
:06:49. > :06:51.significant in that Mr Cameron is from UKIP, and Mr Miliband
:06:51. > :06:56.significant in that Mr Cameron is doesn't need an enormous share of
:06:56. > :06:59.the vote to get an overall majority? There is a danger here of
:06:59. > :07:02.the vote to get an overall majority? Westminster group think. Of course
:07:02. > :07:04.Ed Miliband is in trouble. The Tories are reserved and. They are
:07:04. > :07:08.better organised, the economy is Tories are reserved and. They are
:07:08. > :07:15.recovering. That poses difficulties for Labour, but if you look at what
:07:15. > :07:19.is happening on the ground, UKIP still pose a danger to Cameron. They
:07:19. > :07:23.don't need to poll 15% in a lot of those marginal seats, they just need
:07:23. > :07:33.to get five or 6% of the vote, and that could potentially destroy the
:07:33. > :07:39.Tory lead. Lots of commentators like to say, this guy will never be prime
:07:39. > :07:43.minister, but it is possible that by default or by accident, in a very
:07:43. > :07:48.fluid electoral situation, Ed Miliband could end up as prime
:07:48. > :07:53.minister. It is still all to play for on both sides. If UKIP remains a
:07:53. > :07:58.threat to the Tory right flank and the Tories themselves are not really
:07:58. > :08:02.a national party any more, I am told they will only target a few seats in
:08:02. > :08:05.Scotland, they don't get any big seats in the big cities of the north
:08:06. > :08:10.any more, they don't get the Ulster vote they used to get, so it is
:08:10. > :08:13.possible that Labour, which is more nationally based and has seats in
:08:13. > :08:19.the Midlands and the north and in Wales, so they could get in. I
:08:19. > :08:21.agree. The advantage of having a bad summer is that Ed Miliband can go to
:08:21. > :08:25.his conference facing low summer is that Ed Miliband can go to
:08:25. > :08:28.expectations. All he has to do is not dribble on the lectern, and it
:08:28. > :08:33.will be written up as spectacular. not dribble on the lectern, and it
:08:33. > :08:37.He might not even use a lectin. Structurally, he is in a good
:08:37. > :08:41.position. The electoral vagaries of Structurally, he is in a good
:08:41. > :08:46.the system work in his favour. He still has a narrow poll lead, he is
:08:46. > :08:48.not out of the game at all. Of the three main party leaders, the only
:08:48. > :08:54.one who can be confident about being three main party leaders, the only
:08:54. > :08:59.in government after 2015 is Nick Clegg. David Cameron faces a
:08:59. > :09:02.difficult structural position electorally. But if it is this bad
:09:02. > :09:11.for Labour at the moment, what will it be like if this recovery turns
:09:11. > :09:16.out to be real? It depends how much they succeed. Chuka Umunna was
:09:16. > :09:20.shifting the debate are living standards. They don't want to keep
:09:20. > :09:24.arguing about who called it right. Do people feel richer than they were
:09:24. > :09:31.in 2010? The data suggests that people don't feel richer than in
:09:31. > :09:37.2010. Because they are not.That is the basis on which Labour will fight
:09:37. > :09:40.the next election. It is clear that Labour are unclear on what to say or
:09:40. > :09:44.do next. They have just got to hope and pray that the economy is not as
:09:44. > :09:51.soundly based as it appears to be and that George Osborne is Tony
:09:51. > :09:54.Barber, who thought he fixed the economy in the 1970s and hadn't,
:09:54. > :09:58.just before the next crash. There are all sorts of uncertainties -
:09:58. > :10:02.China, the bond market, the housing bubble might be blown up, and Labour
:10:02. > :10:10.just had to hope something goes wrong for Osborne. Chuka Umunna said
:10:10. > :10:12.he would not get rid of help to buy. There are all these criticisms about
:10:12. > :10:18.he would not get rid of help to buy. artificial schemes pumping up house
:10:18. > :10:23.prices, but he would not say that. It is tortuous. You see this again
:10:23. > :10:29.and again. When asked if Labour would repeal the bedroom tax, or the
:10:29. > :10:38.same thing with Royal Mail, it happens again. They will be falling
:10:38. > :10:40.on people who have not had a meal in years because there is so little
:10:40. > :10:44.on people who have not had a meal in coming out of the Labour Party.
:10:44. > :10:48.There is a kind and Gillette in with them to a politician's career. When
:10:48. > :10:52.they are under attack for a long time, the media get bored after a
:10:52. > :10:57.while and switch the story. It happened to Osborne, who had a
:10:57. > :11:00.horrific 2012 and has recovered this year. It will probably happen
:11:00. > :11:06.Miliband. He can't keep getting as bad press as he is getting at the
:11:06. > :11:11.moment, because people find it tedious. Syria has been the big
:11:11. > :11:14.foreign-policy event this summer. It has remarkably led to a Soviet-
:11:14. > :11:20.foreign-policy event this summer. It American initiative to get Syria to
:11:20. > :11:25.give up its chemical weapons. The world will now expect the Assad
:11:25. > :11:27.regime to live up to its public commitments. As I said at the outset
:11:27. > :11:39.of these negotiations, there can be no games, no room for avoidance or
:11:39. > :11:45.anything less than full compliance. John Kerry. Is this too good to be
:11:45. > :11:49.true? Even superficially, it is not very good. The only people who
:11:49. > :11:51.emerge with any sense of triumph are the Russians, who have had their
:11:51. > :11:56.emerge with any sense of triumph are biggest diplomatic coup. They are
:11:56. > :11:59.back on the stage again. B if you want to know why Putin even has a
:11:59. > :12:03.back on the stage again. B if you constituency in Russia, it is
:12:03. > :12:07.because of moments like this. They were humiliated after the end of the
:12:07. > :12:11.Cold War, and a Nou Camp is a great power again. Then you have the Obama
:12:11. > :12:14.situation, because he has ended up where he wanted to end up. He has
:12:14. > :12:15.situation, because he has ended up avoided war and extracted a
:12:15. > :12:17.situation, because he has ended up concession from Syria, but the way
:12:17. > :12:21.he got there was so concession from Syria, but the way
:12:21. > :12:25.made him look weak and erratic as a leader. There were contradictions
:12:25. > :12:32.between himself and his Secretary of State last week, and it has not done
:12:32. > :12:40.him any good. I was in the States, and it was open season on him. I
:12:40. > :12:44.have never understood the idea of chemical weapons as a red line when
:12:44. > :12:49.you can massacre people in their thousands through other means. But
:12:49. > :12:56.everybody seems to agree that chemical weapons are beyond the
:12:56. > :13:00.pale. The rebels are miserable. We have run out of time. I will have to
:13:00. > :13:05.ask you what you think about Syria next week, which gives you time to
:13:05. > :13:11.prepare. Your book on Fred the shred is going well? It is.I am back
:13:11. > :13:13.tomorrow at noon with the Daily Politics at noon on BBC Two, where
:13:13. > :13:17.we will have more from the Liberal Politics at noon on BBC Two, where
:13:17. > :13:19.Democrat conference in Glasgow. It is the start of our Daily Politics
:13:19. > :13:22.conference coverage. Next week, we is the start of our Daily Politics
:13:22. > :13:27.will be back here at our normal time of 11am, when we will be joined by
:13:27. > :13:31.the Conservative Party chairman, Grant Shapps. Remember, if it is
:13:31. > :13:50.Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.