:00:37. > :00:40.Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.
:00:41. > :00:43.Pressure on Culture Secretary Maria Miller mounts as the Tory press,
:00:44. > :00:48.Tory voters and even a Tory Minister turn against her. That's our top
:00:49. > :00:51.story. The economic outlook is getting
:00:52. > :00:56.rosier. But Ed Miliband is having none of it. The cost of living
:00:57. > :01:06.crisis is here to stay, says Labour. Shadow Minister Caroline Flint joins
:01:07. > :01:09.us for the Sunday Interview. And we bring you the Sunday Politics
:01:10. > :01:11.Gallery. But which former world leader is behind these paintings of
:01:12. > :01:26.world leader is behind these paintings of
:01:27. > :01:33.new London borough. A blue flint for regeneration or economic Armageddon?
:01:34. > :01:38.And with me as always, the best and the brightest political panel in the
:01:39. > :01:41.business - Janan Ganesh, Helen Lewis and Nick Watt. Their tweets will be
:01:42. > :01:46.as brief as a Cabinet Minister's apology.
:01:47. > :01:51.A frenzy of betting on the Grand National yesterday. But there was
:01:52. > :01:54.one book on which betting was suspended, and that was on the fate
:01:55. > :01:57.of Culture Secretary Maria Miller, now the 2/1 favourite to be forced
:01:58. > :02:00.out the Cabinet. She galloped through her apology to the Commons
:02:01. > :02:04.on Thursday in just 32 seconds. But speed did her no favours. There's
:02:05. > :02:08.been mounting pressure on her to resign ever since, especially from
:02:09. > :02:10.Tories. And this weekend the Chairman of the Independent
:02:11. > :02:13.Parliamentary Standards Authority, Ian Kennedy, said it's time MPs gave
:02:14. > :02:27.away the power to decide how colleagues who break the rules are
:02:28. > :02:33.punished. An inquiry into Maria Miller's expenses claims was launch
:02:34. > :02:38.in 2012, following allegations he claimed ?90,000 to fund a house she
:02:39. > :02:43.lived in part time with her parents. She had designated this her second
:02:44. > :02:45.home. She was referred to the Parliamentary Standards
:02:46. > :02:52.Commissioner, who recommended that she repay ?45,000. But this week the
:02:53. > :02:57.Commons Standards Committee, comprising of MPs from all parties,
:02:58. > :03:03.dismissed the complaint against Maria Miller and ordered her to
:03:04. > :03:11.repay just ?5,800 for inadvertently overclaiming her merge claimants.
:03:12. > :03:14.She was forced to apologise to the Commons for the legalistic way she
:03:15. > :03:19.dealt with the complaints against her. But Tony Gallagher told the
:03:20. > :03:24.Daily Politics on Friday: We got a third call from Craig Oliver who
:03:25. > :03:28.pointed out, she is looking at Leveson and the call is badly timed.
:03:29. > :03:30.I think if you are making a series of telephone calls to a newspaper
:03:31. > :03:32.organisation investigating the conduct of a Cabinet Minister, that
:03:33. > :03:37.comes close After that interview Craig Oliver
:03:38. > :03:42.contacted us, saying there was no threat in anyway over Leveson. I
:03:43. > :03:46.mead it clear at the time. Tony Gallagher is talking rubbish about
:03:47. > :03:49.me, and you can use that. The Daily Telegraph have released a tape of a
:03:50. > :03:54.phone call between Maria Miller's aid, Joanna Hindley, and a reporter
:03:55. > :03:59.investigating her expenses claim. Joanna Hindley said:
:04:00. > :04:06.Maria's obviously been having quite a lot of editor's meetings around
:04:07. > :04:12.Leveson at the moment. So I'm just going to kind of flag up that
:04:13. > :04:14.connection for you to think about. The Prime Minister is sticking by
:04:15. > :04:17.his Culture Secretary, but this weekend's crescendo of criticism of
:04:18. > :04:21.her presents him with a problem and he could be wishing Maria Miller
:04:22. > :04:26.would just fall on her sword. Even over 80% of Tory voters in a Mail on
:04:27. > :04:29.Sunday poll think she should go. On the Andrew Marr Show, the Work and
:04:30. > :04:36.Pensions Secretary, Iain Duncan Smith, defended his colleague. I've
:04:37. > :04:41.known her always to be a reasonable and honest person. But is she doing
:04:42. > :04:44.the Government or her any good by staying in office at the moment, do
:04:45. > :04:48.you think? This is a matter the Prime Minister has to take
:04:49. > :04:53.consideration of and she herself. My view generally is I'm supportive of
:04:54. > :04:58.Maria, because if we are not careful we end one a witch-hunt of somebody.
:04:59. > :05:01.And I'm joined now by the Conservative MP, Bob Stewart, and
:05:02. > :05:03.the man in the white suit, former MP and anti-sleaze campaigner Martin
:05:04. > :05:06.Bell. Welcome to you both. Stuart Stuart sturkts let me put this to
:05:07. > :05:10.you, a Conservative MP told this programme, this is a quote, she has
:05:11. > :05:16.handled this appallingly. Downing Street has acted like judge and
:05:17. > :05:19.jury, for Craig Oliver to get involved is disastrous. She's been
:05:20. > :05:23.protected by the whips from the start. What do you say to that? It's
:05:24. > :05:28.not great, is it? The fact of the matter is the question one should
:05:29. > :05:34.ask is, did she deliberately try to make money? Did she deliberately try
:05:35. > :05:38.to obscure ate? The answer is she certainly didn't deliberately try to
:05:39. > :05:42.make money, in the system, which was the old system, and with regard to
:05:43. > :05:47.obscure ago, I wasn't there, but let's put it this way. She was going
:05:48. > :05:53.through a quasi-judicial process and might have ended up in court, so she
:05:54. > :05:57.has a right to defend herself. Hold on o you said she doesn't do it to
:05:58. > :06:01.make money, she remortgaged the house a couple of times to earn more
:06:02. > :06:05.interest to us, the taxpayer, and when interest rates went down she
:06:06. > :06:10.didn't reduce the amount she was charging in expenses. Well, the
:06:11. > :06:15.point is the adjudicator said there was ?45,000 she was owed. And then a
:06:16. > :06:20.committee, Standards Committee, said actually it should be reduced. That
:06:21. > :06:24.was mainly MPs but there are three lay members. Yes, but they don't
:06:25. > :06:28.have the vote. OK, fine, that is where it is wrong and we've got to
:06:29. > :06:32.get it sorted. Let me put another quote from our Conservative MP. He
:06:33. > :06:38.didn't want to be named. None of you do at the moment. I'm being named.
:06:39. > :06:41.But you are backing her. George young in cahoots. He's been leading
:06:42. > :06:46.on the Standards Committee to find her innocent. The Standards
:06:47. > :06:50.Committee is unfit for purpose. I think the Standards Committee should
:06:51. > :06:56.be revisited. I think the system is still evolving. And I think actually
:06:57. > :07:00.we ought to have totally independent judgment on MPs' pay and allowances.
:07:01. > :07:05.We haven't have not got there yet and that is where it is wrong.
:07:06. > :07:08.Martin Bell, have MPs interfered in the Maria Miller process and with
:07:09. > :07:13.the current Standards Commissioner in the same way that they saw off a
:07:14. > :07:18.previous Commissioner they thought was too independent? Andrew it is
:07:19. > :07:26.exactly the same. Yesterday I looked at a diary entry I made for May
:07:27. > :07:32.2000, I said, dreadful meeting standards and privileges, they are
:07:33. > :07:38.playing party politics. One of them told Elizabeth fill kin to her face
:07:39. > :07:42.the gossip in the tea room was she had gone crazy. Nothing's changed.
:07:43. > :07:47.What this shows is most of all, what's the committee for? If it is
:07:48. > :07:53.just going to rubber stamp what the party wants and its mates, I don't
:07:54. > :07:57.see any point. But it hasn't rubber stamped. It's changed it. Well, it
:07:58. > :08:02.has watered down. That's why we should make it totally independent
:08:03. > :08:09.and it shouldn't be involved in the House of Commons. It is plus plus ca
:08:10. > :08:14.change isn't it? MPs', scandal, and MPs closing ranks for one of their
:08:15. > :08:19.own. Has the Commons learned nothing? And this is after the
:08:20. > :08:23.expenses scandal, where everything was out for everybody to see, you
:08:24. > :08:27.would think MPs would be careful. This is before the expenses scandal.
:08:28. > :08:31.We are looking at an historical event, during your time, Martin, not
:08:32. > :08:36.mine. I'm clean on this. You campaigned for him as an
:08:37. > :08:41.independent. I did, he was a good friend of mine. And now you've
:08:42. > :08:45.joined the club. And now you are defending Maria Miller? I'm
:08:46. > :08:48.defending someone who hasn't been proved guilty of anything beyond the
:08:49. > :08:53.fact she was rather slow to come forward with evidence. My point on
:08:54. > :08:58.that, is I understand that. MPs are being lambasted the whole time these
:08:59. > :09:02.days. There were a heck of a lot of them, Martin, who are utterly
:09:03. > :09:06.decent. She didn't try to make money. We've just been through that.
:09:07. > :09:11.I don't think that's right. The jury is out on that. What should have
:09:12. > :09:15.happened in the Miller case, Martin Bell? I don't think there should be
:09:16. > :09:19.a committee on standards. I think the Commissioner should make a
:09:20. > :09:23.report. There has been to be justice for the MP complained against. Then
:09:24. > :09:28.the committee of the whole House can consider it. But we are, the House
:09:29. > :09:36.of Commons, then as now is incapable of regulating itself. That's been
:09:37. > :09:40.proving yet again. She made a perfunctory apology. She threatened
:09:41. > :09:44.and instructed the Standards Commissioner investigating her, and
:09:45. > :09:48.her special adviser linked expenses to Leveson, when trying to stop the
:09:49. > :09:53.Daily Telegraph from publishing. I mean, is that the behaviour of a
:09:54. > :09:56.Cabinet Minister? Well, it's probably not the behaviour of
:09:57. > :10:01.someone that's got time on their hands. She's a very busy Cabinet
:10:02. > :10:06.Minister. Well, she had enough time to write lots of letters to the
:10:07. > :10:14.Standards Commission ser. She felt under such threat. She had the time.
:10:15. > :10:17.She had to make the time. Die know the lady is not trying desperately
:10:18. > :10:22.to make money. I disagree but on that. The fact of the matter is,
:10:23. > :10:27.this was an old, old system, that we've tried to put right, or the
:10:28. > :10:31.Commons has tried to put right. I agree that MPs shouldn't get
:10:32. > :10:37.involved in this. Should we get rid of this committee? It serves no
:10:38. > :10:40.purpose except to cause trouble. The adjudicator has said that and it
:10:41. > :10:45.should be the end of it. It shouldn't come back to the Commons.
:10:46. > :10:49.Although her special adviser threatened them over Leveson she was
:10:50. > :10:54.and is the Minister responsible for trying to introduce something like
:10:55. > :11:01.Leveson and that is something a big chunk that the press doesn't want.
:11:02. > :11:07.She is a target. It has a good record on this issue. It played wit
:11:08. > :11:12.a straight bat. The facts aren't in dispute are they? Will she make it
:11:13. > :11:16.to the next cabinet reshuffle and then go? Iain Duncan Smith said it
:11:17. > :11:22.is a matter for the Prime Minister. In my view, as things stand, I
:11:23. > :11:28.question did she deliberately want to make money? I don't think she
:11:29. > :11:32.did. Should she go? No. Should she be reshuffled? I don't know.
:11:33. > :11:37.Goodness me, you are asking someone who will never be reshuffled,
:11:38. > :11:42.because he will never make it. I was only asking for your opinion, not
:11:43. > :11:46.your ability to do it. This is a problem for Cameron isn't it? It is
:11:47. > :11:53.a problem for Cameron. There is nothing wrong with returning to be
:11:54. > :11:59.badge benches, as you know. Hear, hear. To that. Stick with me. Helen,
:12:00. > :12:05.can she survive? Is I'm going out of the prediction game when I said
:12:06. > :12:11.Clegg is going to win the date, so I owe Janan a tenner on that one.
:12:12. > :12:18.Grant Shapps has supported her. She was ringed by Sir George young and
:12:19. > :12:23.Jeremy Hunt... This is pretty devastating. On past form David
:12:24. > :12:29.Cameron hates having to bounce people out of the cabinet. He will
:12:30. > :12:32.want to keep Maria Miller until the summer reshuffle. This is a question
:12:33. > :12:34.mark on whether she survive this is. This isn't damaging to the
:12:35. > :12:40.Conservative or the Labour Party, it is damaging to everyone. This is
:12:41. > :12:43.catastrophic damage to the entire political establishment. Every
:12:44. > :12:47.single speech that David Cameron and Ed Miliband have given since 2009,
:12:48. > :12:51.talking about restoring trust, they can wipe them from their computers,
:12:52. > :12:56.because voters are going to look that there and say, this lot haven't
:12:57. > :13:01.learnt anything. They are giving perfunctory apologies and then you
:13:02. > :13:07.have MPs sitting in judgment on MPs and rather than paying back ?45,000,
:13:08. > :13:12.she pays back ?5,800 after MPs have been into it. Damage is huge. Just
:13:13. > :13:16.getting rid of one Cabinet Minister, you will need to do more than that.
:13:17. > :13:20.You will notice that Labour haven't made huge weather of this. No,
:13:21. > :13:25.goodness me, they have their own skeletons. Exactly. The person who
:13:26. > :13:30.has made hay out of this is Nigel Farage, who has not been backwards
:13:31. > :13:35.in coming forward. He doesn't seem to care about skeletons. The Prime
:13:36. > :13:39.Minister has be-Gunby backing her, but that's not popular even with
:13:40. > :13:44.Tory voters. How does he get out of this? This is the problem for him.
:13:45. > :13:50.Five years ago his reaction to the expenses scandal was seen by many
:13:51. > :13:55.Tory backbenchers as excessive. They felt hung out to dry by a man who is
:13:56. > :13:59.independently wealthy. To go from that to making a special exemption
:14:00. > :14:03.to Maria Miller because it is politically suitable is more
:14:04. > :14:05.incendiary and provocative. It is not just upsetting the voters and
:14:06. > :14:10.the Daily Telegraph but a good number of people behind him. I think
:14:11. > :14:16.they will get rid of her. I think the Government, to paraphrase
:14:17. > :14:22.Churchill, will zoo the decent thing after exhausting all options, of the
:14:23. > :14:28.European elections a reshuffle. The culture department has gone from a
:14:29. > :14:30.baulk water in haul to one of the most politically sensational jobs
:14:31. > :14:35.because of its proximity to the Leveson issue. She has to be
:14:36. > :14:50.replaced by someone Lily skillful and substantial. Mr Cameron is not
:14:51. > :14:57.short of smart women? Nikki Morgan, the education department, these are
:14:58. > :15:03.absolutely outstanding women and the problem that the generation elected
:15:04. > :15:10.in 2005, Maria Miller generation, there are some really good people
:15:11. > :15:14.elected in 2010. You are not responsible for hacking into the
:15:15. > :15:25.culture Department's Twitter account last night? I was out at the time!
:15:26. > :15:29.They all say that! One so, Maria Miller is like a modern-day Robin
:15:30. > :15:36.Hood... She robs the poor to help the rich. Which one of us has not
:15:37. > :15:45.embezzled the taxpayer? I reckon it is the lady. You have the perfect
:15:46. > :15:55.cover. We would not know how to, would we? You cannot tweet from a
:15:56. > :15:59.mobile device, can you? Play it safe. No, do something dramatic.
:16:00. > :16:02.Have lots of pledges. Have just a few pledges. Ah, there must be a
:16:03. > :16:05.Labour policy review reaching its conclusion because everyone has some
:16:06. > :16:13.free advice for the party about its message and the man delivering it.
:16:14. > :16:19.Here's Adam. He is well liked by the public don't quite buy him as a
:16:20. > :16:22.leader. The papers say he is in hock to the unions and the party has a
:16:23. > :16:27.lead in the polls but it is not solid. Bartenders Neil Kinnock. That
:16:28. > :16:36.is what they said Winnie who lost the 1982 election. The whole country
:16:37. > :16:42.deserves better and we will work to ensure that the day will come when
:16:43. > :16:47.with the Labour government, the country will get better. Someone who
:16:48. > :16:53.was there can see some spooky parallels. The important lesson from
:16:54. > :16:57.1992 is it cannot rest on your laurels and hope for the best, you
:16:58. > :17:02.cannot sit on a lead of seven points because the election narrows that
:17:03. > :17:05.and you cannot rely on the government not getting its act
:17:06. > :17:10.together because the Conservative Party was well funded and organised,
:17:11. > :17:15.the double whammy posters, the tax bombshell, but incredibly effective
:17:16. > :17:22.and the message was unified and they beat us on the campaign. The lesson
:17:23. > :17:25.for Labour today is this lead will evaporate quite possibly over the
:17:26. > :17:30.next few months and we might go into the election behind in the polls.
:17:31. > :17:34.But Ed Miliband is getting conflicting advice about how to
:17:35. > :17:40.avoid 1992 happening. Be bold, be cautious and then, the idea that
:17:41. > :17:46.Labour can squeak into office with just 35% of the vote, which worries
:17:47. > :17:52.some people. Each month, the Labour Party meets around the country and
:17:53. > :17:57.last week, everybody spoke about the dangers of this 35% strategy. They
:17:58. > :18:02.were increasingly unhappy and it is very important that those people
:18:03. > :18:08.around the leader naturally have a duty to protect him and they make
:18:09. > :18:14.sure he gets this message that while there is total support for him, they
:18:15. > :18:17.do want this key year in the run-up to the General Election to be
:18:18. > :18:23.putting out an alternative which we can defend on the doorstep. The
:18:24. > :18:28.doorstep where Neil Kinnock made his concession speech is crammed with
:18:29. > :18:36.Spanish back hackers. The old Labour offices are no a budget hostel.
:18:37. > :18:40.Labour headquarters is down the road and they are putting the finishing
:18:41. > :18:43.touches to a speech Ed Miliband will give this week about the cost of
:18:44. > :18:48.living and I am told he will drop hints about new policies in juicy
:18:49. > :18:52.areas like housing, low pay, growth and devolving power. As for the
:18:53. > :18:56.charge that they are not radical enough, his people say they want to
:18:57. > :19:01.be bold but they have to be credible as well. They say that Labour is
:19:02. > :19:05.more united than it has ever been but there has been some grumbling
:19:06. > :19:09.that the cost of living campaign is not the same as a vision for the
:19:10. > :19:14.country. And that Ed Miliband was not statesman-like enough at Prime
:19:15. > :19:17.Minister's Questions and one figure who sat at the same table in the
:19:18. > :19:23.Neil Kinnock years summed it up like this. Things are OK but it feels
:19:24. > :19:26.like we're playing for the draw. Shadow Energy Secretary Caroline
:19:27. > :19:40.Flint joins me now for the Sunday Interview. This 35% victory
:19:41. > :19:47.strategy, it does not sound very ambitious? I am campaigning to win
:19:48. > :19:52.this election with a majority government and everybody else around
:19:53. > :19:57.the table is also. But we want to go to every corner of the country and
:19:58. > :20:02.win votes for Labour and win seats, that is what we are working towards.
:20:03. > :20:09.To avoid last time, the coalition bartering. But that 35% is a victory
:20:10. > :20:14.strategy so are you saying there is no 35% strategy and that no one at
:20:15. > :20:20.the heart of Labour is not arguing for this? We are working to win
:20:21. > :20:24.around the country and to win all of those battle ground seats and we
:20:25. > :20:28.must have a strategy that appeals to a cross-section of the public but
:20:29. > :20:39.within that, that broad group Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park and. You
:20:40. > :20:41.could do that with 35% of the vote? There is lots of polling and
:20:42. > :20:47.everyone looks at this about what we need to do to get seats and we want
:20:48. > :20:55.to have a comprehensive majority at the next election to win to govern
:20:56. > :20:59.this country. Last week, we have been reading reports of splits in
:21:00. > :21:04.the party over policy and on tactics, even strategy. A struggle
:21:05. > :21:12.for control of the General Election manifesto, we are told. What are you
:21:13. > :21:14.arguing over? I said on the committee and just listening to the
:21:15. > :21:19.film before, it is about being radical but also credible and we are
:21:20. > :21:26.talking about evolution and that is an important subject but we are also
:21:27. > :21:29.united and to be honest, in 2010 people were writing us off saying we
:21:30. > :21:35.would turn on ourselves and that has not been the case. We are not
:21:36. > :21:39.arguing about the fundamentals, we are discussing the policies that are
:21:40. > :21:43.coming up with different colleagues and talking about how we can make
:21:44. > :21:46.sure they are presented to the public and that is part of a
:21:47. > :21:54.process. That is a discussion, not disagreement. The Financial Times,
:21:55. > :21:59.which is usually pretty fair, reports a battle between Ed
:22:00. > :22:04.Miliband's radical instincts and the more business fiscal conservatism of
:22:05. > :22:09.Ed Balls. What side are you on? I am for radical change, I am for energy
:22:10. > :22:13.and I believe strongly we must be formed the market and people might
:22:14. > :22:19.portray that as anti-business but this is about more competition and
:22:20. > :22:23.transparency and others coming into this market so our policy on this is
:22:24. > :22:31.radical, not excepting the status quo. It is also for business.
:22:32. > :22:40.Opinion polls show that few people regard Ed Miliband as by Minister
:22:41. > :22:45.material -- Prime Minister material. That has been true since he became
:22:46. > :22:51.leader. And in some cases, they have been getting worse. Why is that?
:22:52. > :22:56.Opinion polls say certain things about the personalities of leaders,
:22:57. > :23:02.David Cameron is not great either. And they were not great when he was
:23:03. > :23:09.in opposition. At this stage, he was getting 49% as Prime Minister real
:23:10. > :23:16.material and Ed Miliband, 19. -- Prime Minister material. When you
:23:17. > :23:20.look at certain questions that the public is asked about who you think
:23:21. > :23:23.you would trust about being fair in terms of policy towards Britain, who
:23:24. > :23:29.understands the cost of living crisis, they very much identify with
:23:30. > :23:36.Ed Miliband. We are ahead in the polls. Ed Miliband has made that
:23:37. > :23:42.happen. We have one more councillors, we have been running in
:23:43. > :23:45.by-elections and we have held this government over the barrel over six
:23:46. > :23:50.months on energy prices. That is to do with his leadership. The more
:23:51. > :23:58.that voters save him, the less they seem convinced. In 2011, he had been
:23:59. > :24:07.leader for one year, and only 11% regarded him as weird, by 2014, that
:24:08. > :24:12.was 41%. Look at that! Look at that weirdness! What people need is to
:24:13. > :24:16.know where the Labour Party stands on fundamental issues. And in those
:24:17. > :24:21.areas, particularly the cost of living and fairness and people being
:24:22. > :24:25.concerned that we are entering into a period where people will be worse
:24:26. > :24:30.for the first time ever at the end of the Parliament, these things are
:24:31. > :24:38.important and Ed Miliband is part of our success. Definitely. I think
:24:39. > :24:43.this is ridiculous, to be fair, he is not a politician that says, I am
:24:44. > :24:51.dying with the Arctic monkeys, I know who is the number one. He did
:24:52. > :24:56.not play that game. -- down. He is not either there to portray himself
:24:57. > :25:01.as someone who was with the children, I know everything about
:25:02. > :25:04.popular culture. His authenticity is the most important thing. People do
:25:05. > :25:11.not think he is authentic, unless they think we were at is authentic.
:25:12. > :25:17.Is it true that his staff applaud him when he comes back after giving
:25:18. > :25:25.even a mediocre speech? I have never heard that. I have never heard about
:25:26. > :25:28.him being applauded. And I am pleased to applaud him with he makes
:25:29. > :25:32.speeches, I have given him a standing ovation. You have to do
:25:33. > :25:39.that because the cameras are rolling! No, he made a good speech.
:25:40. > :25:43.Five minutes without notes. It took a long time to memorise I don't
:25:44. > :25:49.blame him! The cost of living. Focusing on that, it has paid
:25:50. > :25:53.dividends. But inflation is falling and perhaps collapsing, unemployment
:25:54. > :26:00.is falling faster than anybody thought, as we can see. Wages are
:26:01. > :26:05.rising, soon faster than prices. Retail sales are booming, people
:26:06. > :26:10.have got money in their pockets. Isn't the cost of living crisis
:26:11. > :26:16.narrative running out of steam? I do not think so and I should say that I
:26:17. > :26:21.welcome any sign of positive changes in the economy, if anybody gets a
:26:22. > :26:27.job in Doncaster, I am pleased by the end of this Parliament families
:26:28. > :26:34.will be over ?900 worse off because of tax and benefit changes and the
:26:35. > :26:37.working person is ?1600 worse off and it is the first government since
:26:38. > :26:41.the 1870s where people will be at the end of the Parliament. We
:26:42. > :26:44.believe the government made wrong choices that lead the rich off at
:26:45. > :26:53.the expense of those on middle and lower incomes. -- let the rich. The
:26:54. > :26:58.average family ?794 worse off from tax and benefit changes. That has
:26:59. > :27:03.been backed up. They are those figures. But he has skewed these
:27:04. > :27:08.figures by including the richest, where the fall in tax and the
:27:09. > :27:13.penalty they pay is highest. If you take away the richest, it is nowhere
:27:14. > :27:17.near that figure. Everybody agrees and even the government and
:27:18. > :27:24.knowledges that at the end of their tenure in Parliament, people will be
:27:25. > :27:28.worse off. 350,000 extra people who would desperately like full-time
:27:29. > :27:32.work who are working part-time and 1 million young people unemployed and
:27:33. > :27:37.the reason the cost of living has a residence is people feel that. I was
:27:38. > :27:42.in a supermarket and at Doncaster and someone summed this up, he said
:27:43. > :27:46.I work hard and at the end of the week, beyond paying bills, I have
:27:47. > :27:55.got nothing else. If you take away the top 10% who are losing over
:27:56. > :28:01.?600,000, the average loss comes down to around ?400, less than half
:28:02. > :28:07.of what you claim. That figure is totally misleading. These are the
:28:08. > :28:14.figures from the IFS. It still shows... Whatever way you shape
:28:15. > :28:17.this, people will still be worse off, families worse off because of
:28:18. > :28:23.these changes to tax and benefits and working people because wages
:28:24. > :28:28.have not kept up with prices. Your energy portfolio, you back the
:28:29. > :28:32.enquiry into the big six companies and you intend to go ahead with the
:28:33. > :28:38.price freeze and reconfigure the market even before it reports. If
:28:39. > :28:41.you win, this is a waste of time? Whilst we have had this process
:28:42. > :28:46.before the announcement, we always feel if it goes that way, there
:28:47. > :28:49.might be areas we have not thought of that the enquiry will also draw
:28:50. > :28:54.attention to that we might want to add on. You are right, our basic
:28:55. > :29:00.reforms for the new regulator, to separate generation supply, we will
:29:01. > :29:04.pursue that. What happens if this report concludes that your plans are
:29:05. > :29:09.not correct? You will still go ahead? I don't think so. Actually,
:29:10. > :29:13.if you look at the report that Ofgem produced, some of the issues Labour
:29:14. > :29:18.has been drawing attention to like vertical integration, they cover
:29:19. > :29:24.that. I was asking about the Competition Commission? The report
:29:25. > :29:31.last week is a result of working together and I think it is clearly
:29:32. > :29:35.accepted in this sector, look at SSE last week, they will separate the
:29:36. > :29:55.business. We are pushing at the open door. It has already pulled out of
:29:56. > :29:59.gas. So it follows if you freeze energy prices across the market, it
:30:00. > :30:02.might be the right thing to do but there will be a cost in terms of
:30:03. > :30:06.jobs and investment, correct? Well, I met with SSE last weekand the
:30:07. > :30:11.chief executive and talked about these issues. The jobs changes are
:30:12. > :30:15.partly about them looking at how they could be more efficient as a
:30:16. > :30:18.company. On offshore wind that wasn't really to do with the price
:30:19. > :30:20.freeze. That was more to do with issues around confidence in that
:30:21. > :30:26.area and therefore willing to put the money into it, as well as
:30:27. > :30:32.technical issues as well But there'll be job losses. Is that a
:30:33. > :30:36.price worth paying? We believe the reason we are having a price freeze
:30:37. > :30:39.is these companies have been overcharging customers and haven't
:30:40. > :30:43.been investing in their organisations and making them more
:30:44. > :30:47.efficient. I do not believe a price freeze is linked to job losses.
:30:48. > :30:51.These companies do need to be more efficient. Goal for all of us is
:30:52. > :30:55.realising the fantastic opportunity for more jobs and growth from an
:30:56. > :30:59.energy sector that has certainty going forward. That's what Labour
:31:00. > :31:02.will deliver. Caroline Flint, thank you.
:31:03. > :31:05.It's 1130 and you're watching The Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to
:31:06. > :31:06.viewers in Scotland, who leave us now for Sunday Politics Scotland.
:31:07. > :31:24.Coming up here in 20 Hello, and on the Sunday Politics
:31:25. > :31:27.Wales: Nick Clegg says the Liberal Democrats are the party of
:31:28. > :31:30.devolution and of Europe - we're at the Welsh Lib Dem Spring Conference.
:31:31. > :31:33.And after the director general of the BBC said English-language
:31:34. > :31:37.programming in Wales has been in decline, I've been speaking to the
:31:38. > :31:40.corporation's boss in Wales. We're in the thick of spring
:31:41. > :31:43.conference season. This weekend the Welsh Liberal Democrats are meeting
:31:44. > :31:46.in Newport. Later today, Welsh Lib Dem leader Kirsty Williams will
:31:47. > :31:58.deliver her speech. But yesterday, the party's UK leader Nick Clegg
:31:59. > :32:00.took centre stage. In his speech, the Deputy Prime Minister committed
:32:01. > :32:08.the Liberal Democrats to devolving more power to Wales. He said the
:32:09. > :32:11.recommendations of the Silk Commission would be a blueprint for
:32:12. > :32:13.the Lib Dems' general election manifesto next year. And in an
:32:14. > :32:18.interview without political editor Nick Servini, he outlined some of
:32:19. > :32:25.those plans. Well, I basically endorse the proposals from the
:32:26. > :32:28.second part of the Silk Commission, which was established not least
:32:29. > :32:33.because of a push the Lib Dems gave it in government in Westminster to
:32:34. > :32:36.look across the piece, firstly to see what financial freedoms should
:32:37. > :32:41.be devolved to Wales and we've decided on that and legislating on
:32:42. > :32:46.that. And secondly, to set out a vision for greater devolution and a
:32:47. > :32:51.whole range of other powers from policing to energy concerns and so
:32:52. > :32:56.on. And what I'm signalling this weekend is that I believe that is
:32:57. > :33:00.the blueprint, broadly speaking, that we should be endorsing in our
:33:01. > :33:04.own manifesto for the general election next year. The really big
:33:05. > :33:09.one is income tax and you could be very influential in this if you are
:33:10. > :33:14.part of some kind of coalition government after the next general
:33:15. > :33:18.election. Carwyn Jones is really saying it's a nonstarter unless
:33:19. > :33:26.there is a better settlement from Westminster to Cardiff Bay. Would
:33:27. > :33:31.you give him that? Well, I've always been very clear that revisiting,
:33:32. > :33:36.reopening the way money is allocated to different parts of the UK... You
:33:37. > :33:43.can't do that in the middle of this repair job to our public finances.
:33:44. > :33:47.That is going to have to continue for seven years, whoever is in
:33:48. > :33:50.government after the general election. They will still have to
:33:51. > :33:58.make savings of a very considerable nature. We can make progress and
:33:59. > :34:03.that's one of the reasons why Danny Alexander, in the Treasury, has
:34:04. > :34:07.ensured the differential between Welsh funding and that elsewhere
:34:08. > :34:12.doesn't widen. He's put a floor. So there are improvements to be made.
:34:13. > :34:16.In the long-running, one can look at the issue of how funding is fairly
:34:17. > :34:20.distributed across the UK. I really don't think the time to do that is
:34:21. > :34:23.when we are still trying to do this repair job to the terrible damage
:34:24. > :34:30.done to the nation's public finances by the last Labour government. I
:34:31. > :34:33.want to ask you about what Labour call the Tory war on Wales and it is
:34:34. > :34:36.the very high-profile criticism, particularly from the Conservatives
:34:37. > :34:39.in Westminster, about the performance of the Welsh Government.
:34:40. > :34:44.Privately, some Tories are concerned that it is too negative. Others say
:34:45. > :34:51.they have a point. I've just heard this morning of really heart-rending
:34:52. > :34:54.stories of people who want to get a particular cancer treatment which is
:34:55. > :35:00.available in England and they can't get it in Wales. It is quite right,
:35:01. > :35:10.whether they are Conservatives, Liberal Democrats or Labour, to say
:35:11. > :35:17.on behalf of the patients of Wales, the people of Wales, they simply
:35:18. > :35:19.aren't delivering the kind of support, particularly through the
:35:20. > :35:23.provision of new medicines which could help people, which are
:35:24. > :35:32.available just across the way in England. I don't see why the people
:35:33. > :35:38.of Wales should be short-changed by Labour's stubborn refusal to just
:35:39. > :35:46.accept what everyone knows is a monumental challenge to the NHS in
:35:47. > :35:50.Wales. Absolutely on education as well. I am very proud of the fact
:35:51. > :35:57.that the Liberal Democrats in Westminster have delivered a pupil
:35:58. > :36:03.premium worth ?2.5 billion to help disadvantaged children in school.
:36:04. > :36:08.The only reason why there is a version of that in Wales is because
:36:09. > :36:13.of what Kirsty Williams is insisting on in budget negotiations here in
:36:14. > :36:18.Wales. Childcare is an example where we are pushing forward with huge
:36:19. > :36:24.changes in England but there is still, I think, not enough action
:36:25. > :36:28.here in Wales. Look at the whole issue of health, of childcare, of
:36:29. > :36:32.skills. On money counts, Labour has been too complacent and the reason
:36:33. > :36:36.for that is that they have been able to take the people of Wales for
:36:37. > :36:38.granted for so long because they thought that whatever happens, they
:36:39. > :36:44.will be constantly re-elected. They need to be challenged. In terms of
:36:45. > :36:46.your vote in Wales, not just in the European elections but coming up to
:36:47. > :36:58.the general election, are you concerned about this affected Lib
:36:59. > :37:01.Dem voters moving to Labour? I'm perfectly familiar with the
:37:02. > :37:04.allegation made by Labour which is that we have sold out and that
:37:05. > :37:09.anything that has gone wrong under the sun - if there's a traffic jam,
:37:10. > :37:15.it's the fault of the Lib Dems. Do you hear that party members? I hear
:37:16. > :37:18.it from Labour. It is a deeply infantile allegation, given that the
:37:19. > :37:22.reason why we have to take difficult decisions in the first place is
:37:23. > :37:25.because Labour monumentally messed up on its watch when it was last in
:37:26. > :37:31.government. That's why we have to make cuts in savings. But I'm hugely
:37:32. > :37:34.proud - and I think this message is starting to get through - that
:37:35. > :37:38.notwithstanding those difficult cuts and savings, we are achieving really
:37:39. > :37:41.big things that help the people of Wales. Just look at the fact that
:37:42. > :37:46.the state pension has gone up for people in Wales by the largest cash
:37:47. > :37:49.amount ever. That's because of the triple lock guarantee which was a
:37:50. > :37:54.Liberal Democrat manifesto commitment and is now happening.
:37:55. > :37:57.Just this weekend, just this Sunday, the people are getting what I call a
:37:58. > :38:02.Sunday supplement on their tax returns. People will see in their
:38:03. > :38:06.pay packets for the first time as of today, you pay no income tax on the
:38:07. > :38:12.first ?10,000 you. That takes lots of people in Wales out of income tax
:38:13. > :38:17.altogether. -- the first ?10,000 you earn. That has come straight from
:38:18. > :38:20.the front page of the Liberal Democrat manifesto of the last
:38:21. > :38:24.election into the pay packets of millions across the country. People
:38:25. > :38:28.are starting to recognise that and I hope that's why more and more people
:38:29. > :38:31.will recognise that we did the right thing by going into government and
:38:32. > :38:37.the right thing to act as fairly as we have. I want to finish on a few
:38:38. > :38:40.individual matters. First of all, one relating to problems with
:38:41. > :38:46.current coalition government and Maria Miller, regarding her
:38:47. > :38:50.expenses. Should she resign? I think Maria Miller has explained herself.
:38:51. > :38:55.I think the report of the parliamentary committee has done its
:38:56. > :39:01.work. All the other issues to do with her position - and, indeed, to
:39:02. > :39:06.do with the behaviour of her office, alleged or not - is entirely
:39:07. > :39:09.a matter for the Prime Minister. It's quite right for me to leave the
:39:10. > :39:16.Prime Minister to make those decisions and speak for himself. My
:39:17. > :39:21.final point was a big row that has developed between the Welsh
:39:22. > :39:24.Government and you in the UK government about who is going to pay
:39:25. > :39:29.for the election vocation of the South Wales valleys network. Have
:39:30. > :39:35.you been involved and where do you stand at the? -- the
:39:36. > :39:37.electrification. I have spoken to the First Minister about it directly
:39:38. > :39:44.and I'm afraid he is simply trying to reinvent history. We could not
:39:45. > :39:47.have been clearer that the Westminster government made a clear
:39:48. > :39:55.commitment to a lecture by the mainline to Swansea -- to electrify.
:39:56. > :39:59.But there was an agreement about how the Valley lines would take place
:40:00. > :40:02.which was to do with the franchises and the borrowing powers related to
:40:03. > :40:05.those franchises which is the responsible as he of the Welsh
:40:06. > :40:09.Government. We wrote that in letters. It wasn't challenged at the
:40:10. > :40:12.time or afterwards and I do think it is rather cynical of the First
:40:13. > :40:19.Minister now to turn round and somehow claim that promises were
:40:20. > :40:23.made to cover the expense of that electrification when it was clearly
:40:24. > :40:27.and unambiguously stated that this would be something where the UK
:40:28. > :40:34.Government would play our role, at least in the electrification of the
:40:35. > :40:41.mainline, but the finance of the mainline in the valleys would be the
:40:42. > :40:46.result of devolution. We can go over to the Lib Dem conference now and
:40:47. > :40:49.talk to Nick. Mr Clegg making his conservation to the war of words
:40:50. > :40:56.between Wales and Westminster on rail electrification. Yes, he isn't
:40:57. > :41:00.the first senior government minister to do this. I interviewed George
:41:01. > :41:03.Osborne at the Port Talbot steelworks last week and he said
:41:04. > :41:06.something similar. It was interesting what Nick Clegg said as
:41:07. > :41:11.a Liberal Democrat because the last couple of years, the Lib Dems have
:41:12. > :41:14.acted as a bit of a conduit between the Conservatives in London and
:41:15. > :41:18.labour in Cardiff if there are any issues. I think it's worth
:41:19. > :41:24.reflecting on the choice of language he used. Here we have the Deputy
:41:25. > :41:27.Prime Minister of Britain accusing the First Minister, Carwyn Jones, of
:41:28. > :41:33.cynically trying to reinvent history. He didn't accuse him of
:41:34. > :41:38.lying but I think on most people's definition, he came pretty close to
:41:39. > :41:43.it. Another war of words between the Welsh and UK governments on the NHS.
:41:44. > :41:47.We'll Kirsty Williams try to muscle in on that when she delivers her
:41:48. > :41:53.speech later? -- will Kirsty Williams. Yes, without doubt. She
:41:54. > :41:57.will launch a highly critical attack of the Welsh Government's
:41:58. > :42:00.performance on health and education. This is very much Kirsty Williams
:42:01. > :42:05.territory. We get UK government ministers coming to Wales to do
:42:06. > :42:10.this. She does it on a weekly basis at First Minister's Questions. It
:42:11. > :42:13.will be interesting to see how she deals with what Labour are
:42:14. > :42:17.describing as the Tory war on Wales I was talking about with Nick
:42:18. > :42:22.Clegg. And what she will talk about is, in a way, likening it to a
:42:23. > :42:27.family. So within a family, it's OK to criticise Wales, but she is an
:42:28. > :42:32.easy and uncomfortable about some of the criticism on Wales that is
:42:33. > :42:38.happening now from London, in the London press etc. But she will say a
:42:39. > :42:44.lot of it is based on fact and actual statistics and the health
:42:45. > :42:48.indicators and the targets. I think Kirsty Williams and, more broadly,
:42:49. > :42:52.the party have a lot of challenges this weekend. They have got to try
:42:53. > :42:55.to get over this problem they will face on the doorstep because of
:42:56. > :42:59.their association with the Conservatives in the coalition, not
:43:00. > :43:03.just in the European elections but the general election in just over a
:43:04. > :43:07.year. What they've got to try to get across is the difference they've
:43:08. > :43:12.made in coalition. So a lot of the talk this weekend has been about the
:43:13. > :43:17.raising of the personal allowance on income tax, the triple lock on the
:43:18. > :43:21.pensions. And I think on another matter, two big messages from the
:43:22. > :43:24.weekend are a highly critical attack on the Welsh Government and yet, in
:43:25. > :43:31.the same breath, calling for more powers for the Welsh Government.
:43:32. > :43:34.Now, I know there is a difference between the permanent constitutional
:43:35. > :43:37.settlement and the record of the existing Welsh Government which can
:43:38. > :43:42.be replaced and kicked out every five years. But I'm not sure, in
:43:43. > :43:45.terms of the public out there, whether they really make that
:43:46. > :43:50.difference and whether a lot of people would just say, in a way, why
:43:51. > :43:54.should the Welsh Government be given more powers if they're not
:43:55. > :43:58.performing in areas like health and education? That's one of the areas
:43:59. > :44:02.she will really try to deal with. You've been speaking to her this
:44:03. > :44:05.morning. It seems she wants the Assembly's health committee to take
:44:06. > :44:11.evidence from the military about the NHS in Wales. What's this about? She
:44:12. > :44:16.talks about this media onslaught on Wales and Welsh services and we got
:44:17. > :44:23.a good example today because the Sun Sunday is talking about war veterans
:44:24. > :44:27.from Afghanistan being caught up in weights that are too long for
:44:28. > :44:34.surgery. The most senior doctor in the Army, General air Marshal Paul
:44:35. > :44:38.Evans, has called for those veterans to be treated in England rather than
:44:39. > :44:44.Wales because of the delays. The Welsh Government are denying there
:44:45. > :44:50.is any extra delay for war veterans and Wales. The chair of the health
:44:51. > :44:53.committee in a radio interview this morning refused to commit to calling
:44:54. > :44:58.Paul Evans in front of the health committee, which is the main body
:44:59. > :45:01.that scrutinises the Welsh Government on health matters, but
:45:02. > :45:06.I've just spoken to Kirsty Williams, who is a member of that committee,
:45:07. > :45:09.and she says she will call for Paul Evans to come and give evidence in
:45:10. > :45:13.front of that committee and, at some stage, try to get to the bottom of
:45:14. > :45:18.whether there is any truth in these allegations relating to veterans in
:45:19. > :45:22.Wales. Nick, good to talk to you. The BBC has been the subject of some
:45:23. > :45:25.debate in Cardiff Bay this week. AMs - including the assembly's Presiding
:45:26. > :45:30.Officer - have criticised mistakes in its coverage of devolution.
:45:31. > :45:36.The corporation's director-general Lord Hall was in the Bay, too. In a
:45:37. > :45:39.speech to mark 50 years of BBC Cymru Wales, he said English-language
:45:40. > :45:43.programmes in and for Wales have been in decline for a decade.
:45:44. > :45:47.Earlier, I spoke to the director of BBC Cymru Wales, Rhodri Talfan
:45:48. > :45:50.Davies. I asked him whether Lord Hall was right, that the BBC Wales
:45:51. > :45:55.had protected journalism but other things had suffered as a
:45:56. > :45:58.consequence. Yeah, I think Tony was recognising the financial reality.
:45:59. > :46:02.We've lost about 20% of funding to English-language TV over the last
:46:03. > :46:06.six or seven years and there are consequences. We took a very
:46:07. > :46:08.deliberate decision, the right decision, to protect our journalism
:46:09. > :46:14.and news, politics and current affairs programmes. But clearly in
:46:15. > :46:19.other areas, it's not as rich as we would like to see. And there's a
:46:20. > :46:22.paradox here, of course. BBC Wales's English-language programming is
:46:23. > :46:29.enjoying historic success. Audiences at a ten year high, Radio Wales at a
:46:30. > :46:32.ten year high. So I think there is a challenge and I recognise the
:46:33. > :46:36.challenge and Tony is right to identify it. I think the question
:46:37. > :46:42.for us all now is to think very broadly about the television service
:46:43. > :46:45.that Wales needs. And there is an opportunity in the run-up to the
:46:46. > :46:49.renewal of the BBC's next charter to have that debate. You say it was the
:46:50. > :46:53.right decision but some people may be wondering whether the speech by
:46:54. > :46:56.Tony Hall isn't a sign of regret by the BBC that it's put so much
:46:57. > :47:00.emphasis on journalism at the expense of all the other things it
:47:01. > :47:05.does. Well, I think Tony can see it was absolutely the right decision to
:47:06. > :47:08.protect our journalism. I think what he's recognising is that the UK is
:47:09. > :47:11.changing. Irrespective of what happens, regardless of what happens,
:47:12. > :47:18.in Scotland in the next few months, regional, national ties are
:47:19. > :47:21.intensifying. The BBC is going to have to think very carefully and
:47:22. > :47:29.thoughtfully about how it enables national self-expression, if you
:47:30. > :47:34.like, in this new devolved UK. And I think that's what he was fighting a
:47:35. > :47:38.debate on in the speech he gave. It's not just the BBC that is under
:47:39. > :47:41.pressure - the commercial sector is as well. Is there a danger of
:47:42. > :47:45.falling into this trap where the BBC, or BBC Wales in particular,
:47:46. > :47:48.tries to be everything to everyone and never really attains the level
:47:49. > :47:53.of excellence in any particular sphere that you might want to see?
:47:54. > :47:57.Well, there might be but I think there is absolutely room for us to
:47:58. > :48:03.grow our contribution in areas like drama, comedy, entertainment. And I
:48:04. > :48:09.think the key thing that Tony is signalling is a desire for a broad
:48:10. > :48:13.base. It's very easy for us to talk about broadcasting in Wales through
:48:14. > :48:16.the prism of either news or the Welsh language. And, actually, we
:48:17. > :48:20.need to think about how we serve the 80% of the population who don't
:48:21. > :48:24.speak Welsh and who don't just see their relationship with the BBC
:48:25. > :48:27.through that news lens. They want comedy, they want drama of the
:48:28. > :48:31.standard of Hinterland. They want documentaries, like Hill Farmers
:48:32. > :48:34.going out last week. There's plenty of quality from BBC Wales but
:48:35. > :48:40.perhaps there isn't the breadth I would like to see. Has that 80% been
:48:41. > :48:43.let down? Well, I think Tony has been recognising that there is a
:48:44. > :48:46.consequence and in some programme areas we are not sufficiently
:48:47. > :48:54.capturing some aspects of our cultural and social life in Wales.
:48:55. > :48:57.And we are going to have to think, I think, very carefully about how we
:48:58. > :49:02.do address that deficit and Tony was inviting us to do just that. On the
:49:03. > :49:06.other hand, if it ain't broke... You say yourself that audience
:49:07. > :49:10.appreciation levels are very high. People in in Wales watch and listen
:49:11. > :49:20.to more of the BBC than in other parts of the UK. Shouldn't that be a
:49:21. > :49:24.sign to Tony Hall that we're on the right track? Well, I think it's a
:49:25. > :49:26.sign to everybody that there is a very significant demand for
:49:27. > :49:30.programming that speaks to Wales, that helps people make sense of
:49:31. > :49:32.Wales. If you think about very different programmes - Hinterland,
:49:33. > :49:35.Call Centre resuming next week, Hill Farmers, Country Midwives. There is
:49:36. > :49:39.a broad range of programmes from BBC Wales and audiences each and every
:49:40. > :49:41.time say they value those programmes, they like seeing Wales
:49:42. > :49:44.reflected. It tells them something about their own backyard. And I
:49:45. > :49:48.think they're telling us they want to see more. So if it's a question
:49:49. > :49:52.of redressing the balance, how do you do that? Because there is no
:49:53. > :49:57.more money around. Isn't some part of the BBC going to have to be cut
:49:58. > :50:02.to fund the extra things that you want to do? I think we need a broad
:50:03. > :50:06.debate about this. There is a moment coming in the next 18 months, two
:50:07. > :50:10.years, when the BBC will begin discussions around its next charter
:50:11. > :50:14.and we're going to have to look at that charter within the context of a
:50:15. > :50:18.change in UK. There's no blank cheque right now. People have seen
:50:19. > :50:21.the decision to close BBC Three as a broadcast channel. That's a sign of
:50:22. > :50:24.the financial challenges we are facing. But I think it is
:50:25. > :50:26.significant the director-general has identified an issue in Wales,
:50:27. > :50:30.particularly around our English-language output, and, in a
:50:31. > :50:37.sense, is inviting us all to think very carefully about the national
:50:38. > :50:45.service we operate. And that's all from me this week. On
:50:46. > :50:47.next week's programme we'll hear about the Welsh Conservative Spring
:50:48. > :50:53.conference as they meet in Llangollen. In the meantime, you can
:50:54. > :50:56.catch up on all the day's news on our online services in English and
:50:57. > :51:01.Welsh and there are regular news bulletins on Radio Wales and Radio
:51:02. > :51:03.Cymru. Wales Today is on BBC One Wales at 6.50pm and Newyddion is on
:51:04. > :51:18.S4C at 5.50pm. chair next week. And with that, back
:51:19. > :51:26.to Andrew. Welcome back and time now to get more from our panel. So they
:51:27. > :51:31.can justify their meagre patents. This cost of living mantra will last
:51:32. > :51:37.all the way until the election. Cannot? Ed Miliband leaves he is
:51:38. > :51:42.onto something and for most of this Parliament, inflation has
:51:43. > :51:47.outstripped wages. That is going to go the other way and wages will
:51:48. > :51:51.rise, to which you say Ed Miliband has nothing to say. He says if you
:51:52. > :51:56.think people are going to feel better in the blink of an eye, you
:51:57. > :52:00.are a Conservative and do not understand the depth of this and he
:52:01. > :52:04.is taking the message from a presidential election in America in
:52:05. > :52:08.2012 and make Romney was ahead on some of the economic indicators but
:52:09. > :52:14.Barack Obama was ahead on the key one, do you believe this candidate
:52:15. > :52:17.will make your family's life better? The message that Ed Miliband
:52:18. > :52:23.will try to say is the next election is about whose side are you on? And
:52:24. > :52:27.he believes Labour will be on the side of more voters than
:52:28. > :52:33.conservatives. It would be crazy for Labour not to talk about the cost of
:52:34. > :52:36.living because even if wages exceed inflation next year, it is not as if
:52:37. > :52:41.voters will walk around feeling like Imelda Marcos, they will still feel
:52:42. > :52:47.as if they were struggling and not just compared... Retail sales are
:52:48. > :52:53.slowing? That is not the sign of palpable disparity. Circumstances
:52:54. > :52:58.are better than three years ago but not better than five years ago. The
:52:59. > :53:05.Reagan question will still be employed, are you better off than at
:53:06. > :53:09.the last election? But things in America were actually getting worse
:53:10. > :53:15.when he asked that. I covered that election, that is why it resonated
:53:16. > :53:21.and they did get worse. The Ayatollah had quadrupled the price
:53:22. > :53:24.of oil. This is based on things getting relatively better, after a
:53:25. > :53:31.very long wait, so the cost of living critique will have to adapt?
:53:32. > :53:37.It will but it gets out of a very sticky spot and the IFS says wages
:53:38. > :53:40.will not outstrip inflation and by that time they can start talking
:53:41. > :53:45.about other things, plans for the railways and tuition fees and at the
:53:46. > :53:47.moment, everything is up for grabs. Labour know that every time they
:53:48. > :53:53.talk about something they want to do, the question is, how do you pay
:53:54. > :53:57.for it? They can talk about the economy and they don't have
:53:58. > :54:02.substantial things to say. Is it true that Mr Iain Duncan Smith was
:54:03. > :54:07.going to make a major announcement on benefit cheats? Or something to
:54:08. > :54:11.do with that this morning? But he decided against it because of the
:54:12. > :54:15.tobacco over Maria Miller? It would be very odd to go on to The Andrew
:54:16. > :54:20.Marr Show to have a chat and see what he is having for lunch. Patrick
:54:21. > :54:24.went from the Guardian said he was going to set out higher financial
:54:25. > :54:28.penalty phase for providing inaccurate information in claims.
:54:29. > :54:35.This is a bad day to do that, given that MP expenses are treated far
:54:36. > :54:41.more lenient the than any one from Joe public. That would be
:54:42. > :54:44.fascinating, if true. And he is making a very big speech on well for
:54:45. > :54:50.tomorrow and this tweet from Patrick went at the Guardian, he has proper
:54:51. > :54:54.sized on welfare matters and he tends to know what is going on. But
:54:55. > :54:59.it would be deeply unfortunate if that was the message today. How can
:55:00. > :55:03.he make a speech that has anything about cracking down on benefit
:55:04. > :55:11.claimants? Not today but I am not sure tomorrow. Do you get the
:55:12. > :55:16.impression that nobody in both main parties is very confident of winning
:55:17. > :55:20.in 2015? I column last week said the result, the most likely result from
:55:21. > :55:26.one year on is another hung parliament and which government
:55:27. > :55:30.results from that depends on the mathematical specifics of whether
:55:31. > :55:33.the Tories can do a deal as well as Labour, leaving everything in the
:55:34. > :55:37.hands of Nick Clegg or whether one party can do a straightforward deal
:55:38. > :55:43.but I do not detect any sense of exuberance or confidence in either
:55:44. > :55:47.camp. And the Tories are still shooting themselves over losing the
:55:48. > :55:50.boundary commission reforms because that was going to net them 20 seats
:55:51. > :55:54.and they lost that because they messed up the House of Lords reform
:55:55. > :55:58.and there are still furious with themselves. The former US President,
:55:59. > :56:01.George W Bush, has been a busy boy and here at the Sunday Politics we
:56:02. > :56:03.thought you'd like to see the results of his artistic endeavours.
:56:04. > :56:51.Time for the gallery. I was a prize to find myself saying,
:56:52. > :56:59.some of these are not bad! -- surprised. Vladimir Putin? I like
:57:00. > :57:04.the one of Tony Blair but his early ones of dogs, to be in the presence
:57:05. > :57:12.of the master is to see his portrait of a Joanne Love. He is not of the
:57:13. > :57:17.Turner prize but I was surprised. He gets the mask of Vladimir Putin,
:57:18. > :57:20.also Tony Blair. I was impressed that he did not allow personal or
:57:21. > :57:27.political grudges to influence his artwork. Jacques Chirac, he comes
:57:28. > :57:30.out of this incredibly well! And Angela Merkel comes out
:57:31. > :57:37.astonishingly well. Quite generous as well. Tony Blair is the best one
:57:38. > :57:41.and the reason is he had the closest relationship with them and he has
:57:42. > :57:46.talked about this portrait, saying he was quite fond of him and you can
:57:47. > :57:50.see that. These are awful, they would not get you an A-level but you
:57:51. > :57:59.must admire him to have the guts to do this, and display them publicly!
:58:00. > :58:05.An A-level? Just doing joined up numbers gets you that these days!
:58:06. > :58:08.What do you do when you retire? This is less embarrassing than some of
:58:09. > :58:15.the other things people have done. As good as Churchill? I don't
:58:16. > :58:20.know... No! Churchill was brilliant! And on that! That's all for today.
:58:21. > :58:23.Tune into BBC Two every day at lunchtime this week for the Daily
:58:24. > :58:27.Politics. And we'll be back at the later time of 2:30pm next Sunday
:58:28. > :58:28.after the London Marathon. Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday
:58:29. > :58:35.Politics.