:00:38. > :00:42.It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:43. > :00:44.Her position may be safe for the time-being.
:00:45. > :00:48.But what about Theresa May's policies?
:00:49. > :00:50.As ministers drops hints about easing the public sector pay
:00:51. > :00:54.cap, is the Conservative Party undergoing a rebrand?
:00:55. > :00:58.Jeremy Corbyn takes to the streets to call for an end to austerity.
:00:59. > :01:01.But with his party's divisions on Brexit thrust into the open
:01:02. > :01:06.is his post-election honeymoon coming to an end?
:01:07. > :01:13.And, with Brexit talks under way, we know there's plenty at stake
:01:14. > :01:15.But what's at stake for the remaining EU countries?
:01:16. > :01:17.We speak to a leading European politician.
:01:18. > :01:20.The Plaid Cymru leader will be here to tell us
:01:21. > :01:24.And a year on from this, has Wales really taken up
:01:25. > :01:35.over its handling of the Grenfell tower disaster.
:01:36. > :01:41.And, on the eve of Wimbledon, I'm joined by the three top seats
:01:42. > :01:47.They'll be serving up aces throughout the programme.
:01:48. > :01:50.Is the Government going to change its policy on public sector pay?
:01:51. > :01:52.The Conservative manifesto stated that the 1% cap on annual pay rises
:01:53. > :01:57.for public sector workers would remain in place
:01:58. > :02:01.until 2020, saving up to ?5 billion a year by then.
:02:02. > :02:06.Earlier this week there were rumblings that the policy
:02:07. > :02:08.would be reviewed, before the Treasury weighed in to suggest
:02:09. > :02:13.The new Environment Secretary, Michael Gove, was asked about it
:02:14. > :02:18.on the Andrew Marr show earlier today.
:02:19. > :02:21.I was Education Secretary and I know the schoolteachers pay review body
:02:22. > :02:30.Not a poodle but they work underneath the overall strategy
:02:31. > :02:32.set by the Chancellor, set by the government.
:02:33. > :02:34.They take account of that, but they also take account
:02:35. > :02:37.of other questions as well, including the number of people
:02:38. > :02:40.who are entering the profession, whether we need to have an increase
:02:41. > :02:43.in pay in order to ensure we get the best people in the profession.
:02:44. > :02:46.These pay review bodies have been set up in order to ensure we can
:02:47. > :02:48.have authoritative advice on what is required in order
:02:49. > :02:51.to ensure the public services on which we rely are effectively
:02:52. > :02:59.staffed and the people within them are effectively supported.
:03:00. > :03:01.I think we should respect the integrity of that process.
:03:02. > :03:03.I'm not an individual, I am a member of the government,
:03:04. > :03:13.Michael Gove. Two U-turns in one day, maybe going for the hat-trick
:03:14. > :03:17.this week. It sounds they are thinking of ways of loosening up the
:03:18. > :03:21.pay freeze but Mr Hammond doesn't want it to come out until the autumn
:03:22. > :03:24.budget. That is absolutely right. My understanding is the deal is already
:03:25. > :03:29.done. We've reported this week that 20 quite senior Tory MPs went to see
:03:30. > :03:33.the new chief of staff on Wednesday, to make it very clear indeed they
:03:34. > :03:37.would be voting for a budget that allowed the public sector pay freeze
:03:38. > :03:44.to continue. Fine, we're going to do this, we're going to give fresh
:03:45. > :03:48.advice to the pay review bodies that there remit has been expanded but we
:03:49. > :03:53.cannot do it today because it's a victory for comrades Jeremy Corbyn
:03:54. > :03:57.if we do. There we see, in a sense, the weakness of ten Downing St. They
:03:58. > :04:03.can't direct this policy themselves. They are overruled by Mr Hammond
:04:04. > :04:06.from Mr 11, and it only takes about 20 Tory MPs to say, hey, this is
:04:07. > :04:11.what we want and at the very least the government has to listen to them
:04:12. > :04:14.very seriously. They have to listen to the man they have to act, because
:04:15. > :04:18.that is the fragility of the new House of Commons. We saw it last
:04:19. > :04:25.week on another issue. If you have 20 people saying hey has got to rise
:04:26. > :04:28.in the public sector, beyond the cap, pay will rise in the public
:04:29. > :04:32.sector beyond the cap, because they won't be up to get it through the
:04:33. > :04:36.House of Commons. I think there are other issues involved beyond the
:04:37. > :04:40.numerical situation in the Commons. Lots of MPs came back after that
:04:41. > :04:44.election, including Gavin Barrell who is in number ten, who lost his
:04:45. > :04:48.seat, saying teachers and others were saying we can't carry on with
:04:49. > :04:55.the pay restraint up until 2020. I think it is going to happen for a
:04:56. > :04:59.combination of reasons. What happens to deficit reduction? The deficit is
:05:00. > :05:03.going to rise this year. There were a few Tory MPs but not many who feel
:05:04. > :05:07.it is wrong for the party to capitulate, having made such a point
:05:08. > :05:11.of principle about posterity, that it looks very, very week just to be
:05:12. > :05:16.caving in. I think Steve is right. This isn't just about the maths and
:05:17. > :05:20.the -- in the House of Commons, Tory MPs are frightened in a way I have
:05:21. > :05:26.never known them frightened before, at the momentum behind Jeremy Corbyn
:05:27. > :05:32.at the moment. There is a real feeling about the Tory brand being
:05:33. > :05:35.really in a very, very difficult place at the moment, where Tories
:05:36. > :05:40.look nasty, there isn't nearly enough sympathy and it feels
:05:41. > :05:45.politically impossible to stick with the pay limits as they are. That may
:05:46. > :05:50.be one reason that will keep Tory MPs in line, because the last thing
:05:51. > :05:54.they want at the moment is an election. When they say the country
:05:55. > :05:58.doesn't need on another election it means the Tory party doesn't mean
:05:59. > :06:04.another election, isn't that right? That's right and I think the view is
:06:05. > :06:07.settled. Notwithstanding frenzied speculation in Sunday newspapers,
:06:08. > :06:13.the daily newspapers are a lot more responsible! LAUGHTER
:06:14. > :06:20.But every Tory MP says to Reza until the end of Brexit, we don't want to
:06:21. > :06:24.open Pandora's box. -- Theresa May until the end of Brexit. The problem
:06:25. > :06:30.still remains, she does have a lot less authority, which is why you get
:06:31. > :06:34.bigwigs left, right and Centre for Michael Gove to Damian Green and
:06:35. > :06:37.Justine Greening rattling that instant more money. You have to keep
:06:38. > :06:43.the balance by leaving by consensus and a general for all, which we are
:06:44. > :06:45.in danger of looking like this morning. OK, we will see.
:06:46. > :06:48.So it's not exactly what you might call "strong and stable",
:06:49. > :06:54.but after a turbulent couple of weeks, it appears
:06:55. > :06:56.the Prime Minister has brought less instability,
:06:57. > :07:01.The Government's legislative programme is in place and Brexit
:07:02. > :07:04.So has Theresa May done enough to steady the ship
:07:05. > :07:10.It's been an action-packed story of suspense, drama and intrigue.
:07:11. > :07:22.The latest instalment, hotly anticipated.
:07:23. > :07:26.This week, Theresa May tried to do just that.
:07:27. > :07:30.To get the Democratic Unionist Party's ten MPs to back
:07:31. > :07:32.the minority government, the PM pledged ?1 billion
:07:33. > :07:40.Opposition parties branded it a bung and as the week went on,
:07:41. > :07:43.some have their own MPs who are less than enthusiastic.
:07:44. > :07:47.Mr Speaker, I can barely put into words my anger at the deal
:07:48. > :07:53.But having signed that piece of paper, the Tories now had a tight
:07:54. > :07:56.working majority of 13 to pass key Commons votes.
:07:57. > :08:04.It was, at the very least, breathing space.
:08:05. > :08:08.on public sector pay rises should be lifted.
:08:09. > :08:15.Some Tory MPs, including ministers, agreed, in principle.
:08:16. > :08:17.Labour's challenge failed, but the Government had
:08:18. > :08:21.We will listen to what people in this house have said before
:08:22. > :08:24.The public sector pay cap, by the way, was designed
:08:25. > :08:27.to save ?5 billion for the public purse by 2020.
:08:28. > :08:31.But the policy looks like it could be on its last legs.
:08:32. > :08:34.Thursday was the big moment, the Queen's Speech, which passed,
:08:35. > :08:41.Tory support for a Labour amendment led to a government pledge to front
:08:42. > :08:44.abortions in England for women from Northern Ireland.
:08:45. > :08:49.The ayes have it, the ayes have it, unlock.
:08:50. > :08:52.The last-minute compromises in this Queen's Speech suggests
:08:53. > :08:55.the Prime Minister is acutely aware of the arithmetic in Parliament.
:08:56. > :08:59.She will have to listen more to her own MPs and they know that.
:09:00. > :09:02.One former Cabinet minister told me every time seven of us get together,
:09:03. > :09:08.And yet, after this week, the Prime Minister may not be such
:09:09. > :09:13.I think the ship is certainly steadier.
:09:14. > :09:16.I think there is a degree of what I call a rolling probation
:09:17. > :09:18.for the Prime Minister at the moment.
:09:19. > :09:26.And I think the Prime Minister's performances in the chamber,
:09:27. > :09:28.Prime Minister's Questions, we had the first one back this
:09:29. > :09:31.week, where she reasserted a deal of her authority.
:09:32. > :09:37.And I think there is a great deal of relief and respect for that.
:09:38. > :09:39.Others say the party should reflect on more
:09:40. > :09:46.It doesn't matter if we have Alexander the great or the Ark
:09:47. > :09:48.Angel Gabriel as leader, unless we have fundamental reform.
:09:49. > :09:52.At the moment, often we have these policies but it's like a whole load
:09:53. > :09:54.of clothes pegs without a washing line, bringing them together.
:09:55. > :09:56.So we need to explain what we are about.
:09:57. > :09:58.The Conservative Party is there to help working
:09:59. > :10:02.The Conservative Party is there because we are the party
:10:03. > :10:04.of the ladder of opportunity to get people up that ladder.
:10:05. > :10:10.We have a moral purpose, too, just as the Labour Party do.
:10:11. > :10:13.Several MPs told me the debate within the party is still when,
:10:14. > :10:18.Anybody who says it will definitely be Theresa May as the leader
:10:19. > :10:21.of the Conservative Party going into the next general election
:10:22. > :10:27.It might be, I have to say at the moment it's
:10:28. > :10:36.But conversely, there is absolutely no appetite whatsoever,
:10:37. > :10:39.thre are no manoeuvres going on, no operations going on to instigate
:10:40. > :10:41.a leadership challenge to have a new leader
:10:42. > :10:48.of the Conservative Party in the immediate future.
:10:49. > :10:50.One theory is that Theresa May stays on as PM to negotiate
:10:51. > :10:54.To be something of a scapegoat for what will be,
:10:55. > :10:59.at best controversial, at worst, deeply unpopular.
:11:00. > :11:03.And then, to move aside to make way for a less tarnished leader, who can
:11:04. > :11:05.take the Conservatives into the next general election.
:11:06. > :11:14.It's the immediate future Theresa May will be focused on.
:11:15. > :11:17.This week, a G20 meeting in Hamburg with other world leader chums.
:11:18. > :11:19.Back home, she can't take her friends for granted
:11:20. > :11:21.and told her own MPs, she'd serve as long
:11:22. > :11:30.Joining me now is the Minister for International Trade Greg Hands.
:11:31. > :11:36.Welcome to the programme. Good morning, Andrew. Do you agree with
:11:37. > :11:41.your old Treasury boss, George Osborne, who said easing up on
:11:42. > :11:45.austerity would risk the mistakes of the past which led Britain to the
:11:46. > :11:49.point where there was no money left? There is no change in government
:11:50. > :11:53.policy. We must live within our means. That is the right thing to
:11:54. > :11:57.do. We have reduced the deficit by three quarters since 2010. That is
:11:58. > :12:01.work that is still ongoing. It's very important that we keep budget
:12:02. > :12:05.discipline, because it's impossible to pay for our public services
:12:06. > :12:09.without having a growing economy, the taxes coming into pay for all
:12:10. > :12:12.the services people want and expect. How can you continue to cut the
:12:13. > :12:16.deficit, it's actually rising this year compared to last year, how do
:12:17. > :12:20.you continue to cut the deficit? ?1 billion to find for the DUP, you
:12:21. > :12:23.have to find the money you could in debt because you couldn't change
:12:24. > :12:26.national insurance, and if you loosen up on the public sector pay
:12:27. > :12:31.freeze, you have to find money for that as well, how do you do both?
:12:32. > :12:36.It's important to have a prudent policy, a prudent fiscal budget
:12:37. > :12:40.policy. The Chancellor will be laying out his budget in the
:12:41. > :12:44.autumn... How do you square the circle and me all these demands?
:12:45. > :12:49.Your own ministers are talking about them and yet continue with deficit
:12:50. > :12:52.reduction? It's very important to consider what we have done on public
:12:53. > :12:56.sector pay. Actually by having that cap in place we have saved around
:12:57. > :13:01.200,000 public sector jobs. We have done a lot for the lower paid public
:13:02. > :13:06.sector workers by raising the personal allowance... I'm not asking
:13:07. > :13:10.about that, I'm asking how do you meet the demand for extra public
:13:11. > :13:13.spending and continue with deficit reduction? I think over the last
:13:14. > :13:18.seven years the government has had a very good record on this, Andrew. In
:13:19. > :13:21.terms of being able to reduce the deficit... While still putting in
:13:22. > :13:25.place increases in public funding. For example, in the Conservative
:13:26. > :13:30.manifesto we pledged 4 billion extra on schools and 8 billion extra on
:13:31. > :13:35.health. We can do the two together, but it does require that budget
:13:36. > :13:38.discipline overall, making sure that something is to get out of control.
:13:39. > :13:42.You were a number two in the Treasury during George Osborne's
:13:43. > :13:46.tenure. You protected pensioners with triple lock, free bus passes,
:13:47. > :13:50.the Winter fuel allowance but trebled tuition fees on young folk
:13:51. > :13:53.made it impossible for many of them to get a foot on the property
:13:54. > :13:58.ladder. Is it any wonder young people to vote for you? I think
:13:59. > :14:01.that's an important question for us and an important question as we look
:14:02. > :14:06.at the election. That's why I asked the question, what is the answer? We
:14:07. > :14:09.have to improve our offer and young people and provide more housing. I
:14:10. > :14:13.think we need to look at more money into schools, improving our schools
:14:14. > :14:18.as we go forward and making sure that cities like mine in London are
:14:19. > :14:21.made more liveable and more cost-effective for young people. Why
:14:22. > :14:25.haven't you done that in the past seven years? Instead you have
:14:26. > :14:30.secured the pensioners and you have knocked young folk may have turned
:14:31. > :14:33.against you. Why should young people believe in capitalism if they have
:14:34. > :14:37.no chance of accruing any capital? I think what we have done over the
:14:38. > :14:41.last seven years has actually been to build more homes. We just need to
:14:42. > :14:44.build the more quickly. Your record of building homes is even worse than
:14:45. > :14:53.the last Labour government and you know that. 62% of 18-24 -year-olds
:14:54. > :14:56.voted Labour. 62%. 56 of 25-35 -year-olds. You didn't build enough
:14:57. > :15:01.houses for these people. That is one of the reasons why we are addressing
:15:02. > :15:05.that. Why haven't you addressed it? 1.5 million new homes over the
:15:06. > :15:09.course of this Parliament and what we have done that with things like
:15:10. > :15:13.starter homes, shared ownership, it's much more flexible forms of
:15:14. > :15:15.tenure to make sure homes are more attractive to younger people,
:15:16. > :15:19.particularly younger people starting off in life. Ministers have bent
:15:20. > :15:23.telling me this for seven years and you never do it. -- been telling me.
:15:24. > :15:26.That is what the programme is designed to do. We have been
:15:27. > :15:31.building more homes. We need to accelerate that. We'll phone need an
:15:32. > :15:35.open conversation about how we improve elsewhere for young people
:15:36. > :15:41.in schools and universities and so on that. OK, Brexit. You are the
:15:42. > :15:48.International Trade Minister. Will the UK leave the customs union in
:15:49. > :15:54.March 2019, and if it doesn't make its own trade deals? Our position on
:15:55. > :15:59.exit and the customs union is unchanged. What is it? To leave the
:16:00. > :16:03.single market and Customs union. But other components of free trade
:16:04. > :16:07.agreement with the European Union and customs arrangements, so we have
:16:08. > :16:11.frictionless free trade with the European Union. Will that happen by
:16:12. > :16:15.March 2019? That is the negotiation that has just started. I am not
:16:16. > :16:20.putting an end state on that. What I'm saying is the objective in this
:16:21. > :16:23.is to make sure that we frictionless trade with the EU and come to a
:16:24. > :16:28.future customs arrangements to buy it's not clear we will be able to
:16:29. > :16:32.start making our own trade deals after March 2019? Once we leave the
:16:33. > :16:38.European Union, yes, I am clear we will be able to make our own trade
:16:39. > :16:41.deals. March 2019? When we leave the single union and the customs union
:16:42. > :16:44.we come to an arrangement with the European Union. We will be able to
:16:45. > :16:52.make free trade deals but at the moment we can't because we are in
:16:53. > :16:55.the EU. Will you be able to make them if there is a transition
:16:56. > :16:58.period? That remains to be seen. You might not. We have only just started
:16:59. > :17:00.the negotiation. You had a year to think about it. To think about a
:17:01. > :17:03.transition period and when it might start and then... What we are clear
:17:04. > :17:07.about is there should be no cliff edge for businesses in the UK and
:17:08. > :17:11.the European Union and to make sure the trade continues as frictionless
:17:12. > :17:14.as possible. We don't yet know if we will be able to make our free trade
:17:15. > :17:22.deals during the transitional period? It could be postponed until
:17:23. > :17:26.2021 or 22? We don't yet know if we're going to have a transition
:17:27. > :17:30.period, to be fair. The objection in all of this is to have frictionless
:17:31. > :17:31.free trade with the European Union and come to a customs arrangement.
:17:32. > :17:47.That is the objective. You are minister for London so let's
:17:48. > :17:52.turn to the Grenfell Tower disaster. Kensington and Chelsea Council is in
:17:53. > :17:59.chaos. The leader resigned on Friday and the chief executive has gone as
:18:00. > :18:04.well. That is what I mean, it is in chaos. We're waiting for a new
:18:05. > :18:08.leader for the council because it is important for local democracy to
:18:09. > :18:16.have its say. It is quite a big thing for government to to go in and
:18:17. > :18:23.put a Council on special measures. It is in a state, you have lost the
:18:24. > :18:27.chief executive, you've lost the council leader, it is lacking in
:18:28. > :18:31.experience and surely if there is ever a time to send in the
:18:32. > :18:37.Commissioners to get a grip of this crisis, it is now? We are waiting
:18:38. > :18:43.for a new leader. There is an interim chief executive coming over
:18:44. > :18:46.from Lewisham Council. Clearly, there will be lessons to be learned
:18:47. > :18:54.and that is a matter for the public enquiry. There will be an election
:18:55. > :18:58.within the Conservative group on the council. There are very capable
:18:59. > :19:06.councillors in Kensington and Chelsea. We haven't seen much sign
:19:07. > :19:14.of that, did you have any involvement in the resignation of
:19:15. > :19:18.the council leader? I spoke to him, like all council leaders do. I spoke
:19:19. > :19:23.to him, I spoke to the previous leader and the leader of might of
:19:24. > :19:28.the council. It is natural that MPs speak to their council leaders on an
:19:29. > :19:36.ongoing basis. We know the Council opted for cheaper cladding because
:19:37. > :19:39.they want good costs. So that cheese pairing is inevitable in town halls
:19:40. > :19:47.when central government, has yours has done, cut their budget by 40%? I
:19:48. > :19:53.don't accept the premise to that because a lot of financing has been
:19:54. > :19:59.devolved back to local government. But you have cut local government
:20:00. > :20:02.financing by 40%. There is 200 billion available over the rest of
:20:03. > :20:09.this Parliament to the local councils and we believe that is
:20:10. > :20:12.fair. Kensington and Chelsea Council spent ?8.6 million on this
:20:13. > :20:18.refurbishment. It is not necessarily a shortage of funds. Indeed, they
:20:19. > :20:25.have 274 million in reserves and they put people at risk to save
:20:26. > :20:30.?300,000. If that is not a case of putting in the Commissioners, what
:20:31. > :20:33.is? That is a matter for the ongoing enquiry and the lessons to be
:20:34. > :20:37.learned from that and how it happened is a matter for the
:20:38. > :20:39.different enquiries, including the public enquiries. Thank you.
:20:40. > :20:43.Theresa May's stated aim in calling the election last month was to get
:20:44. > :20:45.a stronger hand in the Brexit negotiations - in the end, the
:20:46. > :20:50.But it's worth remembering that there's a lot at stake for both
:20:51. > :21:06.and a big trading partner for the 27 countries remaining in the EU.
:21:07. > :21:09.When Mr Davis and Mr Barnier kicked off the talk a couple of weeks ago,
:21:10. > :21:11.the tone was businesslike and broadly constructive.
:21:12. > :21:14.The two men agreed that the first age of the negotiation
:21:15. > :21:18.The rights of EU citizens living here and British
:21:19. > :21:23.The financial settlement that the UK will pay the EU,
:21:24. > :21:27.On citizens rights, the EU published their proposals three weeks ago,
:21:28. > :21:30.and the UK Government came forward with their plan last Monday.
:21:31. > :21:33.The UK offer, however, was greeted with scepticism.
:21:34. > :21:50.The Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte said...
:21:51. > :21:53.But elsewhere, some EU figures have begun to worry about the financial
:21:54. > :21:55.implications of Brexit for the remaining 27 countries.
:21:56. > :21:58.Gunther Oettinger, the EU's budget Commissioner, said this week that
:21:59. > :22:01.Brexit would leave a hole in the EU's finances of at least
:22:02. > :22:06.That's because the UK is a net contributor to the budget.
:22:07. > :22:09.The UK also runs a large trade deficit with the EU.
:22:10. > :22:11.Last year we bought ?312 billion worth of goods
:22:12. > :22:21.That is 71 billion more than we sold to the
:22:22. > :22:29.So the introduction of trade tariffs would be costly for both sides.
:22:30. > :22:31.The Brexit negotiations will continue every month.
:22:32. > :22:33.Mr Davis and Mr Barnier will have their next face-to-face
:22:34. > :22:36.meeting in Brussels on Monday the 17th of July.
:22:37. > :22:38.Joining me now from Rome is Roberto Gualtieri.
:22:39. > :22:40.He's a Socialist MEP, and part of the European
:22:41. > :22:51.Welcome to the programme. The British government has published a
:22:52. > :22:59.detailed plan to protect the rights of EU citizens living in the UK. The
:23:00. > :23:06.EU response was highly critical, will that be the EU's response to
:23:07. > :23:14.everything Britain proposes? First, we welcome the intention to protect
:23:15. > :23:19.EU citizens. But, our reading of the plan is that it falls short of its
:23:20. > :23:26.own ambitions, so there are a number of issues to be clarified. I think
:23:27. > :23:36.also to be corrected. For instance, while our proposal is based on a new
:23:37. > :23:41.low, this is based on a UK low and there are no guarantees that might
:23:42. > :23:45.be changed in the future. Then there is the famous issue of enforcement,
:23:46. > :23:50.which is based on UK courts. And third, there are a number of rights
:23:51. > :23:56.which seem to be missing. For instance, a family member will have
:23:57. > :24:03.to make his own request for settled status and we consider that an
:24:04. > :24:13.conceivable there might be two different answers. My own child, for
:24:14. > :24:18.instance. You are right, there are things to discuss. This wasn't a
:24:19. > :24:23.take it or leave it offer by the British government, it was the
:24:24. > :24:27.beginning of a negotiation. But Michel Barnier said it lacked
:24:28. > :24:30.clarity and vision. Someone else said it was worrisome and the Dutch
:24:31. > :24:34.Prime Minister said there were thousands of questions left
:24:35. > :24:40.unanswered. These are not helpful responses? It is not an issue of
:24:41. > :24:45.tones, it is an issue of the start of the negotiation, indeed. We are
:24:46. > :24:52.commentating the paper, identifying what is good, and the rights
:24:53. > :24:56.similar, there are a number of loopholes and there are some more
:24:57. > :25:01.from the issues relating to the legal status... It just sounds very
:25:02. > :25:08.constructive. Instead of saying, this is a good start, but there is
:25:09. > :25:15.much more to do. But you just sound negative. No, I don't think so. My
:25:16. > :25:21.first sentence was, I welcome the intention to protect the rights of
:25:22. > :25:26.EU citizens. That is a very constructive sentence. Then one has
:25:27. > :25:30.to be consistent and to find a mechanism which fully guarantees the
:25:31. > :25:34.right and the negotiation, and they are exactly for this purpose.
:25:35. > :25:37.Brussels is now worrying about how to fill the huge financial hole that
:25:38. > :25:46.Britain's departure will create in EU revenues. There is a number of
:25:47. > :25:49.ideas being floated at the moment, introduce an EU VAT supplement or
:25:50. > :25:53.take an axe to the common agricultural policy which is about
:25:54. > :26:01.40% of the budget. Does that appeal to you? There are two different
:26:02. > :26:07.problems. The first is to define the settlement, which has to be an
:26:08. > :26:12.integral part of the withdrawal agreement. We are not looking for
:26:13. > :26:19.fines, we are looking for only commitment to be paid. Then there is
:26:20. > :26:24.the issue for the future, were of course the union will have to
:26:25. > :26:30.reassess and redefine and improve its mechanism in its own resources
:26:31. > :26:38.so it can have an efficient finances in the future. So what do you want,
:26:39. > :26:45.and EU VAT or cutting money to Italy? I think the union deserves a
:26:46. > :26:50.better system of resources. This is for the future and we are working on
:26:51. > :26:55.that. Do you agree with the bustle's commission every member of the EU
:26:56. > :27:05.should adopt the euro by 2025? Yes, of course it is possible. Like it
:27:06. > :27:10.was for the United Kingdom, for Denmark, but in principle, the
:27:11. > :27:21.members of the union members of the union. So we think it would be good
:27:22. > :27:25.to a allowed the euro. There is the political will of the country to be
:27:26. > :27:31.taken into account but I think the euro has proven to be a successful
:27:32. > :27:36.currency, protecting citizens. I expect the membership will be
:27:37. > :27:42.broadened in the future. Why is it's GDP below what it was 15 years ago
:27:43. > :27:50.and the industrial output is below them what it was in 1984 so the euro
:27:51. > :27:56.hasn't been successful to you. You now run a massive deficit with
:27:57. > :28:02.Germany, where is the success? It should not be confused, the currency
:28:03. > :28:10.with the economic crisis we had. The also mistake in the conductor of the
:28:11. > :28:15.economic policy. We are changing austerity politics for more growth
:28:16. > :28:20.policies. Your country hasn't grown since you join the euro. The
:28:21. > :28:24.economic policy is another thing, so we need to change the economic
:28:25. > :28:29.policy. The common currencies is a strong protection for all of us.
:28:30. > :28:40.Your country hasn't grown since you joined the euro. I don't think your
:28:41. > :28:47.assessment is correct. Yes it is. By the way now, Italy is growing and
:28:48. > :28:52.that is good. Europe is growing. In 2017 it is growing more than the US
:28:53. > :29:00.and the UK. Do you accept if Britain had stayed in and been forced to
:29:01. > :29:07.join the euro in 2025, there is no public opinion support for joining
:29:08. > :29:11.the euro here? This is a joke. Whenever they say, if the UK had
:29:12. > :29:20.stayed in the union, the UK would be forced to join the euro. This is not
:29:21. > :29:26.true. That is what the Brussels delegation said. The Brussels
:29:27. > :29:35.commission said it thinks everybody in the EU should adopt the euro by
:29:36. > :29:40.2025. As I said, no. If you want to make a political statement, you are
:29:41. > :29:45.free to do so. But the fact is, the member of the delegation to the euro
:29:46. > :29:48.are supposed to join. Members who have decided to stay out of the
:29:49. > :29:54.euro, are free to stay out of the euro whilst they are in the EU. That
:29:55. > :29:57.is perfectly possible. Thank you for speaking to us from Rome today.
:29:58. > :30:00.Jeremy Corbyn has had a bit of a spring in his step
:30:01. > :30:02.since the election, after doing much better than pretty much
:30:03. > :30:05.Indeed, despite the party's internal splits, Labour
:30:06. > :30:09.But earlier this week, Labour's divisions on Brexit
:30:10. > :30:12.were thrust into the open as 50 Labour MPs defied the party line
:30:13. > :30:15.to vote in favour of a backbench amendment calling for the UK
:30:16. > :30:18.to remain members of the EU single market and customs union.
:30:19. > :30:21.One of those rebels was Labour MP Stella Creasy who had this to say
:30:22. > :30:28.What a lot of us are saying is we want, in these negotiations,
:30:29. > :30:34.To have a government that has forced through a hard Brexit,
:30:35. > :30:36.especially in the light of the general election result,
:30:37. > :30:39.with the public very clearly rejecting Theresa May's approach,
:30:40. > :30:44.And across the house, again, there are MPs saying,
:30:45. > :30:48.We don't know what is possible to achieve, but what we do know
:30:49. > :30:51.is if you walk in the room and you throw away something
:30:52. > :30:56.like single market membership, which 650,000 jobs in London alone
:30:57. > :31:07.Welcome to the programme. Thank you. Secretary Richard Burgon.
:31:08. > :31:11.Welcome to the programme. Thank you. On Thursday 49 MPs, almost a fifth
:31:12. > :31:15.of the Parliamentary party, rebelled against the leadership over Brexit,
:31:16. > :31:19.including three shadow ministers, were subsequently sacked by Jeremy
:31:20. > :31:25.Corbyn. Labour is now more divided on Brexit than the Tories? I don't
:31:26. > :31:28.think so. I think the amendment was regrettable and premature, and I
:31:29. > :31:31.agree with the Labour deputy leader Tom Watson, when he said he was
:31:32. > :31:35.disappointed about that. Actually, the difference in the Labour Party,
:31:36. > :31:39.the difference of nuance on the single market between those who
:31:40. > :31:43.definitely want to be a member of the single market, including some
:31:44. > :31:45.people who backed that amendment, and those who want tariff free
:31:46. > :31:51.access to the single market. The and those who want tariff free
:31:52. > :31:54.reality is, not just on Brexit, but a whole host of issue, it's the
:31:55. > :32:00.Conservative government that is completely divided and that odds
:32:01. > :32:07.with itself. If it is just nuance and you are not divided, Mark our
:32:08. > :32:10.card. The Chancellor said single access market mentorship is not on
:32:11. > :32:15.the table, the Brexit secretary said it should be and another shadow
:32:16. > :32:18.ministers speaks about seeking reformed membership of the European
:32:19. > :32:24.market and the customs union. Which one is Labour policy? Brexit is
:32:25. > :32:25.market and the customs union. Which settled issue, in that Labour
:32:26. > :32:26.market and the customs union. Which accents Britain is leaving the
:32:27. > :32:27.European Union but we believe accents Britain is leaving the
:32:28. > :32:41.Britain has to have a with the institutions. Which one is
:32:42. > :32:43.should be having a job 's first Brexit.
:32:44. > :32:45.should be having a job 's first economy first. As our manifesto
:32:46. > :32:53.says, Union, for example that also means
:32:54. > :32:56.the freedom of movement of labour, and the UK's part of that, will end
:32:57. > :33:00.the freedom of movement of labour, when Britain leads the EU. Do
:33:01. > :33:02.the freedom of movement of labour, want freedom of movement to
:33:03. > :33:03.the freedom of movement of labour, What we do want to end is
:33:04. > :33:11.the freedom of movement of labour, practice of
:33:12. > :33:17.and also an scrupulous employers trying to use the free you movement
:33:18. > :33:19.of labour to breakdown -- drag down terms and conditions. You can do
:33:20. > :33:26.that if we are in or out of single market. Do you want freedom
:33:27. > :33:30.of movement to end? It is inevitable the freedom of movement will end. Do
:33:31. > :33:31.you want it to do is a question that that is the difference. Your
:33:32. > :33:34.you want it to do is a question that manifesto said what you just
:33:35. > :33:35.you want it to do is a question that asked you if you want it
:33:36. > :33:38.you want it to do is a question that What Labour wants is Brexit that
:33:39. > :33:41.puts jobs on the economy that What Labour wants is Brexit that
:33:42. > :33:46.What Labour doesn't want is to What Labour wants is Brexit that
:33:47. > :33:48.immigration and fall What Labour wants is Brexit that
:33:49. > :33:51.targets as the Conservatives did on the table. What is the
:33:52. > :33:55.quite simple, the free movement of quite simple, the free movement of
:33:56. > :33:57.labour will end in terms of when the UK leads the European Union.
:33:58. > :34:01.labour will end in terms of when the Labour's priority is not any other
:34:02. > :34:04.labour will end in terms of when the issue than jobs on the economy being
:34:05. > :34:08.put first and that is really important.
:34:09. > :34:09.put first and that is really stay in the customs union? I think
:34:10. > :34:12.put first and that is really we need to
:34:13. > :34:16.put first and that is really open on that. We need to
:34:17. > :34:18.put first and that is really without putting options off the
:34:19. > :34:23.table. without putting options off the
:34:24. > :34:27.you know what your aim is, is it to leave or stay in the
:34:28. > :34:27.you know what your aim is, is it to British manufacturers gain a lot,
:34:28. > :34:31.and their workers, in jobs, in British manufacturers gain a lot,
:34:32. > :34:34.of the current British manufacturers gain a lot,
:34:35. > :34:40.customs union. What we want is an equivalent benefit. We want the
:34:41. > :34:42.benefits of being in the customs union, even if when we leave
:34:43. > :34:44.benefits of being in the customs European Union we can't be in the
:34:45. > :34:45.benefits of being in the customs customs union. These are the kind of
:34:46. > :34:50.demands that Theresa May making, and her ability to do so,
:34:51. > :34:54.I'm making, and her ability to do so,
:34:55. > :34:58.weakened by the fact you can't even command a majority now after she
:34:59. > :35:02.asked for a majority to do so. You have criticised the government for
:35:03. > :35:05.saying no deal is better than a bad deal, which I understand.
:35:06. > :35:06.saying no deal is better than a bad that mean Labour's position is
:35:07. > :35:08.saying no deal is better than a bad any deal is better than no Deal? Any
:35:09. > :35:13.deal better than no Deal? No, no. any deal is better than no Deal? Any
:35:14. > :35:17.would be strange to say any deal is better than no Deal. We want a good
:35:18. > :35:25.deal for Britain. But if you can't get that? We are confident a Labour
:35:26. > :35:27.government could get that, we want a job 's first Brexit that puts jobs
:35:28. > :35:29.government could get that, we want a first and puts living standards
:35:30. > :35:32.government could get that, we want a first and doesn't use, as the
:35:33. > :35:36.Conservative government has tried to do, Brexit as a smoke screen to try
:35:37. > :35:44.and create some kind of low regulated tax haven... You could be
:35:45. > :35:48.in government for very shortly and the in these negotiations. If the EU
:35:49. > :35:53.does not budge on demanding 1 billion euros divorce Bill, would
:35:54. > :36:02.you just sack that for the sake of any deal or say no? -- suck it up?
:36:03. > :36:05.Labour won't be sucking up to anyone, the EU or anyone else. A
:36:06. > :36:10.Labour government would negotiate hard for Britain. What if they
:36:11. > :36:15.wouldn't budge? On the demand for 100 billion euros? What would you
:36:16. > :36:17.do? These are hypothetical scenarios, and these negotiations
:36:18. > :36:23.are nuanced and compensated. Labour scenarios, and these negotiations
:36:24. > :36:26.would campaign, in opposition, hold the government to account for and in
:36:27. > :36:30.government deliver jobs first Brexit, that puts the economy does.
:36:31. > :36:35.The kind of post-Brexit Britain we want to see is one in which there is
:36:36. > :36:39.investment in industry, assistance from the government in industry and
:36:40. > :36:44.are more equal society with high wage jobs. Ian Wright Fricke, your
:36:45. > :36:48.new party says Labour is currently too broad a church. Do you agree
:36:49. > :36:55.with him? I think the Labour Party has always been a broad church. He
:36:56. > :36:58.says too broad? It has always been a broad church, socialists and
:36:59. > :37:02.says too broad? It has always been a unionists and long may it be so. You
:37:03. > :37:05.don't agree? The Labour Party is a broad church and it should be. Do
:37:06. > :37:09.you support lowering the broad church and it should be. Do
:37:10. > :37:13.of MPs needed, that you need to get to stand for the Labour leadership?
:37:14. > :37:19.It is going to be debated at your autumn conference? This question
:37:20. > :37:23.isn't seen as dead about the leadership election many people
:37:24. > :37:27.predicted would occur after the general election won't be occurring.
:37:28. > :37:31.Do you support? Tom Watson says Jeremy Corbyn is secure for many
:37:32. > :37:35.years. I do believe all parties, including the Labour Party, need to
:37:36. > :37:38.be made more democratic. We have a membership of well over half a
:37:39. > :37:43.million and I would like the members to have more say in our party's
:37:44. > :37:50.policies and in the way the party is run. Jeremy Corbyn spoke at a
:37:51. > :37:54.left-wing rally in London yesterday. Among the crowd there were placards
:37:55. > :38:00.calling Theresa May a murderer, pictures of Mrs May's head on
:38:01. > :38:04.communist flags and Trotskyite banners. Are these the kind of
:38:05. > :38:07.people Mr Corbyn should be associating himself with, if he is a
:38:08. > :38:10.Prime Minister in waiting? The reality is when you speak at an
:38:11. > :38:15.outdoor meeting, you have no control who turns up or who is walking past.
:38:16. > :38:18.You have no control over the kind of banners people make. I understand
:38:19. > :38:25.the hundred and 50,000 members of the public at that event. No, there
:38:26. > :38:29.won't, 15,000. I spoke the night before the general election, in an
:38:30. > :38:33.event in Leeds city centre. For all I know, there could have been all
:38:34. > :38:38.sorts of people walking past, watching. The key thing is to judge
:38:39. > :38:44.Jeremy by his words, Judge Labour by our words on what we've done. We do
:38:45. > :38:48.believe in a new kind of politics. Also politics committed to changing
:38:49. > :38:52.our society for the better. OK, Richard Burgen, thank you for
:38:53. > :39:03.joining us today. It is coming up to 11:40pm. -- 11:40am.
:39:04. > :39:05.Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics Wales.
:39:06. > :39:20.but has it led to more football being played in Wales?
:39:21. > :39:23.And Labour's Christina Rees will be here to tell us how the party
:39:24. > :39:27.should behave while opposing Theresa May's minority government.
:39:28. > :39:30.But first, Plaid Cymru was celebrating on June the 9th
:39:31. > :39:32.after gaining a seat at the election.
:39:33. > :39:35.That said, it targeted several other seats without success
:39:36. > :39:45.Its leader Leanne Wood is here with me now.
:39:46. > :39:57.Good morning. Is it fair to say that a great victory in Ceredigion mask
:39:58. > :40:01.what was otherwise a fairly disappointing set of results? It's
:40:02. > :40:08.difficult to feel disappointed when our number of seats went up and we
:40:09. > :40:14.came quite close in some other seeds. The majority has shrunk but
:40:15. > :40:17.nonetheless we have four MPs and that comes on the back of a
:40:18. > :40:21.successful local election campaign as well. What this election tells us
:40:22. > :40:27.more than anything is that people are prepared to vote differently in
:40:28. > :40:31.different directions. I think a lot of tactical voting took place on
:40:32. > :40:36.this occasion and Plaid Cymru and some of the other parties were
:40:37. > :40:42.squeezed in those other seeds. You say you came close in other seeds,
:40:43. > :40:47.you also came very close to losing Arfon, for example, and some of your
:40:48. > :40:52.other targets. We had Adam Price before the elections say you were
:40:53. > :40:55.aiming for eight. Anglesey, Ceredigion, Blaenau Gwent, the
:40:56. > :40:59.Rhondda. It was really disappointing in those other ones where you didn't
:41:00. > :41:04.win. You always have to aim high and at the beginning of the election,
:41:05. > :41:07.the polls were telling us a very different picture to the picture
:41:08. > :41:11.that happened at the end of the election. Our target and strategy at
:41:12. > :41:18.the beginning was absolutely correct. But in the last election in
:41:19. > :41:22.2015, we lost Anglesey by 200 votes. With people saying then, you only
:41:23. > :41:29.lost 200 votes? No, they were saying, you lost Anglesey. This time
:41:30. > :41:34.we won four seats. It was a very difficult context for us to be
:41:35. > :41:38.fighting that election, which was presidential, it was between Theresa
:41:39. > :41:43.May and Jeremy Corbyn, and look how Ukip, the Liberal Democrats and the
:41:44. > :41:47.Green Party were squeezed. In that context, Plaid Cymru had a
:41:48. > :41:52.successful evening, you could argue. You were squeezed and it was a
:41:53. > :41:56.return to two party politics. I think 84 present of the vote went to
:41:57. > :42:03.either Labour or the Conservatives. But does that mean what you've got
:42:04. > :42:06.is a very left-wing Labour Party, a right-wing Conservative Party, but
:42:07. > :42:10.there is this massive centre ground in British politics, in Welsh
:42:11. > :42:15.politics as well, which is right for someone to go in and pick that up,
:42:16. > :42:20.but you're not the party to do that because you are a left-wing party?
:42:21. > :42:26.Is that a problem? I'm not sure those terms are helpful any more in
:42:27. > :42:30.the post-Brexit climate. There are different attractions to different
:42:31. > :42:33.parties on different issues. Just the vote this week to retain our
:42:34. > :42:37.membership of the single market shows that all those young people
:42:38. > :42:41.who may well have voted Labour with great hope in the last election
:42:42. > :42:45.because they thought they might have been representative of their views
:42:46. > :42:48.on the way that we leave the European Union, I think many of
:42:49. > :42:53.those young people may have had their hopes dashed this week by the
:42:54. > :42:57.vote on that amendment. So there are many areas for Plaid Cymru to be
:42:58. > :43:01.campaigning on and of course there is the question of Wales. How often
:43:02. > :43:06.do you hear the front bench of the opposition talk about Wales? How
:43:07. > :43:10.often have they raised the question of Wales, Barnett Formula funding
:43:11. > :43:15.and so on in light of the deal with the DUP that was announced last
:43:16. > :43:19.week? Just go back to Brexit, you are seeing those young people who
:43:20. > :43:23.voted Labour may well have been disappointed, but what would you do
:43:24. > :43:28.differently? Our position is very clear. We believe Wales is best of
:43:29. > :43:36.staying within the single market. The jobs reliant on are safer in
:43:37. > :43:41.that eventuality. And Plaid Cymru signed up to a paper, a joint White
:43:42. > :43:45.Paper with the Welsh Government, outlining that position. It seems
:43:46. > :43:49.now that the Welsh Government is rowing back on that and certainly
:43:50. > :43:52.that vote last week from Labour's position, where were those Welsh MPs
:43:53. > :43:58.standing up for the Welsh national interest in Parliament? Staying in
:43:59. > :44:03.the single market, that means not being able to control immigration.
:44:04. > :44:08.Those were factors for people voting to leave the European Union. The key
:44:09. > :44:13.question for us in Wales is how we leave the European Union. A lot is
:44:14. > :44:17.assumed as to what that'll last year meant. There was one question on the
:44:18. > :44:21.ballot paper and that was do we stay or do we leave the European Union.
:44:22. > :44:26.All the questions around immigration and membership of the single market,
:44:27. > :44:29.people are assuming people meant certain things when they voted in
:44:30. > :44:34.that referendum but we can't make those assumptions. The question for
:44:35. > :44:39.us is whether or not Wales has any say whatsoever in the process as we
:44:40. > :44:44.leave the European Union. As things stand, we are not in a very strong
:44:45. > :44:50.position. Look at Northern Ireland, look at Scotland, they at least have
:44:51. > :44:54.a voice. Where is Wales? You are saying you want to stay in the
:44:55. > :44:58.single market, you are saying immigration may not be as much of a
:44:59. > :45:01.problem as people are saying, but everything you want to see
:45:02. > :45:08.essentially bypasses the fact that the UK and Wales voted to leave the
:45:09. > :45:13.European Union. We accept the vote. Just nothing that comes out of it?
:45:14. > :45:20.There are companies -- countries like Norway that have a model that
:45:21. > :45:24.exists that could be there for us if we were prepared to have that
:45:25. > :45:27.debate. And we have to pay for it. You would like to see the UK
:45:28. > :45:33.continuing to pay the European Union? I would like to see this as
:45:34. > :45:37.part of the negotiation but at the moment it has been closed down and
:45:38. > :45:40.because of that vote last week, it means that potentially the best
:45:41. > :45:45.option for Wales is not now on the table. I think when those jobs are
:45:46. > :45:47.put in jeopardy, people are going to have to answer some serious
:45:48. > :45:53.questions about their position on this. Looking at what is happening
:45:54. > :45:58.in Westminster now, the DUP and the deal with Theresa May, to what
:45:59. > :46:04.extent would you be willing to consider supporting the Tory
:46:05. > :46:09.government, if say the DUP deal breaks down and they turn to you? We
:46:10. > :46:14.have been very clear that we would not provide confidence to this Tory
:46:15. > :46:17.government. We would not prop them up. But we would use every
:46:18. > :46:25.opportunity to maximise our leverage. We have been saying for
:46:26. > :46:29.years... How? Look at the way Stella Creasy managed to get that amendment
:46:30. > :46:33.on abortion access for women in the North of Ireland to be able to
:46:34. > :46:38.access abortion in England. That was done by using the leverage that is
:46:39. > :46:44.available to MPs in a situation like this. I'm not able to give you an
:46:45. > :46:50.example of the kind of arrangement we could come to on this but we
:46:51. > :46:56.would be using every opportunity we can to maximise Wales' powers and to
:46:57. > :46:59.try to end austerity in Wales. They whiz will be listening to this and
:47:00. > :47:05.while they won't support the Tory government but they think, without
:47:06. > :47:10.giving them some kind of support how will you get what you want out of
:47:11. > :47:15.it? It is a hung parliament and they are going to be on a day-to-day
:47:16. > :47:19.basis discussions on who votes where in order for the government to keep
:47:20. > :47:22.its programme, to get the basic things through. There will be
:47:23. > :47:29.opportunities for Welsh MPs to try and make sure that like Northern
:47:30. > :47:33.Ireland, they have managed to get ?1.5 billion, ending austerity
:47:34. > :47:40.effectively... So you would support them? We would be daft and not doing
:47:41. > :47:44.our job if we were to ignore opportunities to end austerity in
:47:45. > :47:47.Wales. People are really struggling at the moment and we have to do
:47:48. > :47:52.everything we can to make sure that people in Wales's position is
:47:53. > :47:56.strengthened and where we can take measures to end austerity we
:47:57. > :48:03.absolutely well. Just looking to the future and your leadership of the
:48:04. > :48:07.party, we have had five years, Ceredigion, the Rhondda, two
:48:08. > :48:14.successes, but can you point to any breakthrough that the party has had
:48:15. > :48:18.under your leadership? You have just mentioned two breakthroughs. Our
:48:19. > :48:23.seats went up in the last two elections. That is a record I think
:48:24. > :48:29.we can be proud of. We have got a big job of work to do preparing the
:48:30. > :48:32.party ahead of the 2021 Assembly elections. I want Plaid Cymru to be
:48:33. > :48:36.the biggest party after that election. I intend to leave the
:48:37. > :48:41.party into the election and be Plaid Cymru's candidate for First
:48:42. > :48:43.Minister. So definitely no views about standing down any time soon?
:48:44. > :48:45.Not at all. Now, where were you on this
:48:46. > :48:48.weekend a year ago? Chances are you were watching
:48:49. > :48:50.Wales beat Belgium At the time, there were many calls
:48:51. > :48:55.to capitalise on the success of the national team
:48:56. > :48:57.to promote more playing but what legacy has that
:48:58. > :49:00.journey actually left? Well, though there has been
:49:01. > :49:02.investment in grassroots football, the organisation which develops
:49:03. > :49:05.the sport has told this programme It was perhaps the greatest night
:49:06. > :49:19.in Welsh footballing history. A 3-1 win over Belgium saw us reach
:49:20. > :49:25.the last four of Euro 2016. Having not featured
:49:26. > :49:28.in an international tournament here we were striding
:49:29. > :49:34.into a semifinal. It was hoped the team's
:49:35. > :49:38.remarkable success in France would have a knock-on effect
:49:39. > :49:42.where it really matters, in parks and communities
:49:43. > :49:45.across Wales. We filmed this group of budding
:49:46. > :49:49.footballers a year ago so we came back to see how
:49:50. > :49:53.they have been getting on. I scored about three goals
:49:54. > :49:59.and I love playing football. We had a good season
:50:00. > :50:04.because all the players What do you think was so good
:50:05. > :50:09.about your team A year ago, our most capped
:50:10. > :50:16.footballer told this programme our success in the Euros
:50:17. > :50:20.was a golden opportunity to develop the sport
:50:21. > :50:23.at a grassroots level. Former goalkeeper Neville Southall
:50:24. > :50:26.described it as a chance in a million to change the way
:50:27. > :50:29.we do things and he said children like these
:50:30. > :50:32.need to be provided with So a year on from that
:50:33. > :50:38.heroic win in Lille, The FAW says its profits
:50:39. > :50:46.from the tournament, around ?4 million,
:50:47. > :50:50.will be reinvested in facilities which will benefit
:50:51. > :50:53.grassroots football. And a number of Welsh clubs have
:50:54. > :50:57.had all-weather pitches installed which will serve
:50:58. > :51:01.their local community. But much more still
:51:02. > :51:04.needs to be done, according to the Association's
:51:05. > :51:08.development arm, the FAW Trust. Clearly in terms of facilities,
:51:09. > :51:12.?4 million in the context of what needs to be achieved,
:51:13. > :51:16.facilities is one of the fundamental issues for the health
:51:17. > :51:20.and growth of the game, there needs to be more
:51:21. > :51:23.support from other partners Other partners, including
:51:24. > :51:27.the Welsh Government, which channels its sports funding
:51:28. > :51:31.through Sport Wales. The position we are in at the moment
:51:32. > :51:33.is that government will ask the sport sector
:51:34. > :51:37.to do more with the ?20 million To expect Sport Wales
:51:38. > :51:41.to do even more with what is a diminishing
:51:42. > :51:46.budget is unrealistic. I think it's committed
:51:47. > :51:52.to ensuring that the grass roots game
:51:53. > :51:54.flourishes. That is what it set up
:51:55. > :51:57.to do as an organisation, to protect and promote
:51:58. > :52:00.the development of the game, In order for the bottom end
:52:01. > :52:05.to flourish, the top end needs to be successful and it's finding
:52:06. > :52:08.that balance constantly. Cuts to local authority budgets
:52:09. > :52:13.remain a concern for the Trust too. We contacted the 22 Welsh councils
:52:14. > :52:18.to find out how many new pitches Of the 16 that responded, six said
:52:19. > :52:26.they had invested in new facilities. In the meantime, the number
:52:27. > :52:28.of registered young players with 900 more boys and 1,200
:52:29. > :52:34.more girls playing football. That's a rise of 2%
:52:35. > :52:39.and 32% respectively. The biggest problem we face
:52:40. > :52:42.is finding places for children to play because it's no good them
:52:43. > :52:46.being enthused by seeing Gareth Bale, Aaron Ramsey,
:52:47. > :52:48.Joe Allen, if then when they go out to play there are not sufficient
:52:49. > :52:52.pitches or quality pitches I think there was a lot
:52:53. > :52:57.of celebration amongst our politician as much as amongst
:52:58. > :53:00.the public for the success we saw in the Euros last year but there has
:53:01. > :53:04.to be a time where we put our money We know that sport can assist
:53:05. > :53:10.a lot of government agendas, health particularly,
:53:11. > :53:13.but also social inclusion and various other really significant
:53:14. > :53:17.government priorities. We played at Leckwith on the 4G
:53:18. > :53:24.facilities so that was really good for our boys because we could play
:53:25. > :53:27.football every week and that was It's just an all-weather pitch
:53:28. > :53:32.so our games are never called off. The older teams playing on grass
:53:33. > :53:38.lost all their games due to the rain The Welsh Government says
:53:39. > :53:44.it's committed to making Wales and it's undertaking a review
:53:45. > :53:49.of playing facilities. Sport Wales told us it has invested
:53:50. > :53:53.in schemes to create more artificial pitches so children can play more
:53:54. > :53:57.football and keep dreaming of representing Wales
:53:58. > :54:01.on the biggest stage. Having gained seats against the odds
:54:02. > :54:07.at the election, it now finds itself promising
:54:08. > :54:11.to bring about Brexit while most of its backbenchers
:54:12. > :54:13.are Remainers. Then at the end of last week
:54:14. > :54:17.three shadow ministers were sacked for opposing the party
:54:18. > :54:19.over a Commons vote. So what should Labour's
:54:20. > :54:23.strategy be from now on? The Shadow Welsh Secretary
:54:24. > :54:35.is Christina Rees who's here now. Good morning. It does seem a bit of
:54:36. > :54:41.a strange one for the party, especially over the last week, we
:54:42. > :54:44.saw Jeremy Corbyn getting through in terms of opposition on cap for
:54:45. > :54:48.public sector pay, but by the end of the week we are back to squabbling
:54:49. > :54:54.and internal problems for the party. It's a difficult time still. I think
:54:55. > :55:00.we are in a very good position, a clear position, and we have worked
:55:01. > :55:03.with Carwyn Jones to make their position clear. We are putting jobs
:55:04. > :55:09.and prosperity at the forefront of our Brexit negotiations and we would
:55:10. > :55:15.look at securing that for Wales and for the UK. Yes, we voted to come
:55:16. > :55:20.out, Wales and the UK, so we have to accept that result and move on to a
:55:21. > :55:24.negotiating position. But surely a jobs first Brexit would include
:55:25. > :55:27.trying as much as possible to stay inside the single market and yet
:55:28. > :55:36.what we've seen now from the Labour Party is a vote saying that you are
:55:37. > :55:41.coming out of the single market. The public was put to a referendum and
:55:42. > :55:45.they voted to come out. We have to accept that and move on. We have to
:55:46. > :55:51.look at the negotiation strategy and that includes various things like
:55:52. > :55:55.immigration, we have to have a good position on that, a fair deal for
:55:56. > :55:59.the regions as well as the nations of the UK, and ahead of that, we
:56:00. > :56:06.would concentrate on jobs, prosperity. Make that the focus of
:56:07. > :56:10.our negotiation. As we heard from Leanne Wood, what she wants to see
:56:11. > :56:14.is this Norway style model, which Carwyn Jones used to talk about,
:56:15. > :56:18.where you can remain on the single market but you have to make payments
:56:19. > :56:25.to the EU. That would be a jobs first Brexit. But that is a
:56:26. > :56:30.contradiction. If we come out of the EU, why should we continue to pay?
:56:31. > :56:36.Also, the Norway model, there are four countries in that. Really, if
:56:37. > :56:39.we were to join that, we would be the biggest country in that
:56:40. > :56:44.grouping. I don't think they want that. In terms of the politics
:56:45. > :56:47.within the Parliamentary Labour group, has there been a shift since
:56:48. > :56:54.the election because before the vote it was fractious and a lot of the
:56:55. > :56:58.MPs not keen on Jeremy Corbyn. He has done a lot better than expected.
:56:59. > :57:04.Has that changed the dynamic within the Parliamentary Labour Party? Yes,
:57:05. > :57:10.insomuch as Jeremy Corbyn ran a very good campaign. Carwyn Jones is our
:57:11. > :57:16.leader in Wales. They worked together in that campaign and we in
:57:17. > :57:27.Wales exceeded our expectations. We got 28 seats so we gained three. And
:57:28. > :57:32.overall we went from 232 up to 262. It is a strange relationship between
:57:33. > :57:36.Carwyn Jones and Jeremy Corbyn. During the campaign, the message we
:57:37. > :57:40.were getting as journalists was, this is not Jeremy Corbyn's
:57:41. > :57:45.campaign, this is Carwyn Jones' campaign and the Welsh Labour
:57:46. > :57:49.manifesto. Do you put the success down to Carwyn Jones rather than
:57:50. > :57:55.Jeremy Corbyn? No, it is a joint effort. That is not what we were
:57:56. > :58:00.being told. We were being told, keep Jeremy Corbyn away. And he was
:58:01. > :58:07.literally kept away, he was he at once. He came twice. When can you
:58:08. > :58:17.get him? He is in demand all over the UK. So you have been ignored?
:58:18. > :58:21.Nice try! He came to Colwyn Bay, he came to Whitchurch, and when he did
:58:22. > :58:25.his live dates in Birmingham, we live streams that into Barry. So we
:58:26. > :58:33.took every opportunity to bring him to Wales. But Carwyn Jones kept on
:58:34. > :58:37.saying he is the boss in Wales. So on Brexit, it seems Carwyn Jones is
:58:38. > :58:40.more keen to get the greatest possible access to the single market
:58:41. > :58:48.rather than Jeremy Corbyn. How does that play out? Kia Starmer and
:58:49. > :58:51.Carwyn Jones meet regularly. Yes, we want unfettered access to the single
:58:52. > :58:57.market and the customs union and that is what we are working towards
:58:58. > :59:03.together. But when you look at the MPs last week, a mixed week for
:59:04. > :59:06.Jeremy Corbyn, 50 of his MPs rebelled against him, three
:59:07. > :59:10.frontbenchers being sacked because they voted against him. That
:59:11. > :59:15.euphoria of the success of the general election campaign seems to
:59:16. > :59:20.have been taken off now. There seems to be a lot more rebellion within
:59:21. > :59:24.the party once again. I fully understand that this is a very
:59:25. > :59:30.important issue. It is for life and people are very passionate. MPs are
:59:31. > :59:34.very passionate about this. I fully understand their position. But they
:59:35. > :59:37.knew our position before that vote and if they took a decision to vote
:59:38. > :59:42.against the whip, they know the repercussions. But Jeremy Corbyn
:59:43. > :59:48.hasn't been able to persuade them, he hasn't been able to say, I am the
:59:49. > :59:51.leader now, I had a successful general election campaign, backed me
:59:52. > :59:58.on this just so that we can show a united front. I don't think he
:59:59. > :00:05.failed. 50 of his Parliamentary colleagues voted against him. 49.
:00:06. > :00:10.There was one teller who would have voted against. We are a broad party
:00:11. > :00:15.and we have different views and we have to accommodate those views. But
:00:16. > :00:20.the people who voted against the whip in that amendment knew what
:00:21. > :00:25.they were doing and they knew the repercussions. But we continue to
:00:26. > :00:29.work together as always. What do you think will be happening next? We
:00:30. > :00:33.know that Theresa May is in a precarious position, propped up by
:00:34. > :00:39.the DUP. Do you think there is going to be an election any time soon? We
:00:40. > :00:44.are preparing for government. I am going around Wales again, having
:00:45. > :00:47.done my 40 seat tour during the election, yesterday I was in
:00:48. > :00:52.Carmarthen. We are ready for government. But I think she will
:00:53. > :01:01.hang on for as long as she can. Could there be a situation where you
:01:02. > :01:07.are in a position to take over as a minority government under Jeremy
:01:08. > :01:13.Corbyn? We are good to go. But you would need the support of the DUP?
:01:14. > :01:20.No. You would do it without them? Yes. But what you think about Jeremy
:01:21. > :01:28.Corbyn being someone people many can't see him being Prime Minister.
:01:29. > :01:33.He is very comfortable now as a leader and he is the future Prime
:01:34. > :01:37.Minister, no doubt. A lot of young people voted for Labour because of
:01:38. > :01:42.his views on Brexit but as we heard from Leanne Wood, hasn't he gone
:01:43. > :01:46.against their wishes on that? The young people read our manifesto and
:01:47. > :01:49.it was very attractive to all people across the ages. They read that
:01:50. > :01:51.manifesto and they voted for us on that. Thank you.
:01:52. > :01:54.Don't forget we're on Twitter - we're @walespolitics.
:01:55. > :01:57.Diolch am wylio, thanks for watching.
:01:58. > :02:00.the fact it was this tower, as opposed to another tower. Andrew,
:02:01. > :02:05.back to you. So, is the Conservative Party
:02:06. > :02:11.undergoing a re-brand? Can Jeremy Corbyn unite
:02:12. > :02:13.the Labour party? And has Michael Gove reinvented
:02:14. > :02:24.the political interview? Let's start with this conservative
:02:25. > :02:30.speeches. Damian Green, other people talking about the need to do some
:02:31. > :02:33.hard thinking about tuition fees, home ownership, a pitch for the
:02:34. > :02:38.young and many other things. That's normally the kind of speech as
:02:39. > :02:41.politicians give when you lose an election? It's ironic, it sort of
:02:42. > :02:46.feels like they have lost the election. I keep having to remind
:02:47. > :02:50.people that Tories got nearly 60 seats more than Labour got. This
:02:51. > :02:54.feels like the beginning of a repositioning, you are right. I
:02:55. > :02:59.wouldn't have said they are embarking on a rebrand but they need
:03:00. > :03:03.to. What was remarkable about the David Cameron years, particularly at
:03:04. > :03:07.the beginning of David Cameron's leadership of the party, was despite
:03:08. > :03:11.all the efforts he made to modernise the Conservative Party with the
:03:12. > :03:15.pitch on environment and big society and all of that stuff, is when you
:03:16. > :03:21.actually continued to poll people about what they thought of the
:03:22. > :03:24.Tories, they still thought the Tories represented the wealthy and
:03:25. > :03:28.were for the wealthy. It was only camera and that made the difference,
:03:29. > :03:32.and that hasn't gone away. I don't understand how they do this. To do
:03:33. > :03:35.blue sky thinking, to have a real rethink of what you stand for, is
:03:36. > :03:39.normally what you do in opposition. It's tougher to do when you are in
:03:40. > :03:42.power. I can see you could do it if you were a hundred seat majority and
:03:43. > :03:46.not much to worry about, but when you're living hand to mouth in a
:03:47. > :03:50.hung parliament, I don't see how these politicians have the bandwidth
:03:51. > :03:56.to survive and do this blue sky thinking. And they won't have. They
:03:57. > :04:04.will become exhausted very quickly, and by that I mean physically
:04:05. > :04:07.exhausted. As a minority Labour government of 1974-79 became
:04:08. > :04:14.exhausted quickly. Also, to think about this rethinking and rebranding
:04:15. > :04:17.means a coordinated approach, it's not. You will have individual
:04:18. > :04:21.ministers reflecting on what went wrong and what they need to do to
:04:22. > :04:26.put it right. Although they technically won more seats, they are
:04:27. > :04:34.a lot more marginal seats now than before. Why they don't want and
:04:35. > :04:38.another election. I think it will be, as I say, they haven't got a
:04:39. > :04:42.strong leader in place at the moment, it will be frantic and
:04:43. > :04:50.uncoordinated when they get the space to do it. And very reactive.
:04:51. > :04:53.Yes. Reactive events from the other parties, like Stella Creasy, and
:04:54. > :04:59.their own party. They have a leader who is not just weak and survival is
:05:00. > :05:04.the name of the game for her at the moment, she is not noted for policy
:05:05. > :05:12.development or policy rethink at all. She is, actually. Really? So
:05:13. > :05:16.sorry to burst this bubble. Look at the Tory party manifesto. I'm not
:05:17. > :05:19.saying I backed it or not, but the Tory party manifesto in the
:05:20. > :05:25.election, it was incredibly radical. They had an entire chapter called
:05:26. > :05:29.international generational failures. Arguing or solving or trying to
:05:30. > :05:39.solve a huge amount of problems they might have. That wasn't her, it
:05:40. > :05:45.wasn't actually her. Is the bubble still intact? It does, there is a
:05:46. > :05:49.lot of radical thinking going on. The problem they've got, they
:05:50. > :05:53.absolutely disastrously failed to sell it. The wrong person in charge
:05:54. > :05:56.to sell it, she doesn't look like much of a radical. They failed to
:05:57. > :05:59.make the point when they were given the chance in front of the
:06:00. > :06:03.electorate. They need to find a better way to communicate. Reports
:06:04. > :06:07.this morning on developing their own social media offensive. It has only
:06:08. > :06:14.been around for about seven years! Social media. Meanwhile, Labour, all
:06:15. > :06:18.the Labour people I speak to on the Corbin Bryant jet, they think now
:06:19. > :06:22.they just need to stick to the script. -- on the Jeremy Corbyn
:06:23. > :06:26.project. If the election was before the end of the year, they'd pretty
:06:27. > :06:30.much fight on the manifesto they just fought on? They would virtually
:06:31. > :06:37.publish the same manifesto if it was this year. They don't need to do
:06:38. > :06:41.more thinking? I think they do, because they didn't win either. The
:06:42. > :06:48.context of the next election will be different when it comes. There's no
:06:49. > :06:53.doubt, for now, they feel a sense of small letter M momentum and
:06:54. > :06:58.justifiably so after the election result. There are dangers of
:06:59. > :07:01.complacency and hubris, because they didn't win, but if there was an
:07:02. > :07:11.election in the autumn, they were published as a manifesto with some
:07:12. > :07:16.confidence. Is there any sense the honeymoon overfed Jeremy Corbyn? We
:07:17. > :07:21.saw the discipline problem he had midweek with those MPs who backed
:07:22. > :07:26.the Chuka Umunna amendment. In times gone by he had to live with it? It
:07:27. > :07:29.would be a great mistake to think there's a real sense of unity in the
:07:30. > :07:34.Parliamentary party, the problems that continued. It depends if you
:07:35. > :07:37.are one of the Labour MPs who in by Jeremy Corbyn because you thought he
:07:38. > :07:41.was unelectable, and those have gone a little quiet, or you didn't like
:07:42. > :07:44.him because you fundamentally disagreed with his policy
:07:45. > :07:50.principles. Those people are still not reconciled to his programme and
:07:51. > :07:57.agenda. This is more than Mr Corbyn I would suggest. The people who run
:07:58. > :08:05.the Labour Party are from the left. They are not going to consolidate...
:08:06. > :08:08.Whether Mr Corbyn falls under the proverbial bus, why make a
:08:09. > :08:12.difference, they will consolidate their grip, and we will see that at
:08:13. > :08:15.the party conference, and even without Mr Corbyn, this is now a
:08:16. > :08:22.party which is clearly of the left. They are in control. Absolutely, you
:08:23. > :08:24.heard it from Richard Burgon, talking about the need to give
:08:25. > :08:31.members more democratic control, therefore not the MPs, who are still
:08:32. > :08:36.moderate or Blairite, whatever you want to call it. There will be an
:08:37. > :08:39.almighty tussle. Jeremy Corbyn had given this very unexpected
:08:40. > :08:42.semi-victory, didn't win that election but did better than he
:08:43. > :08:46.thought, he could either be thoroughly consensual and get people
:08:47. > :08:50.like Yvette Cooper and Chuka Umunna back on the front bench and move
:08:51. > :08:54.towards, away from the hard left of the centre. All he could press on
:08:55. > :09:01.determine with the hard left vision and that is precisely what he's
:09:02. > :09:08.doing. That means undoubtably another war. You didn't win but
:09:09. > :09:14.you've done really well, much better than 80% of your own party said you
:09:15. > :09:17.would do. Indeed, they were all carping and getting ready for you to
:09:18. > :09:22.fail, so they could move in on you. Why would you not to do but you know
:09:23. > :09:27.you still have a problem with the Parliamentary party but you'd
:09:28. > :09:31.consolidate your control of the conference, the National executive
:09:32. > :09:35.committee, the grassroots, where you are in control? I understand what he
:09:36. > :09:38.did with the Shadow Cabinet. To that extent, Tesak prominent members of
:09:39. > :09:41.the Shadow Cabinet who have stood with him up until that election, to
:09:42. > :09:46.bring these figures in who hadn't been with him, would have been an
:09:47. > :09:50.act of betrayal, which is not his style. I can understand. There just
:09:51. > :09:58.wasn't the space to bring them in. Whether later on he needs to be
:09:59. > :10:01.pragmatic, as well as this conviction, Messiah figure, is a
:10:02. > :10:06.different question. I think there will be times when he will need to
:10:07. > :10:10.be. In the end, you can't run divided parties. A leader, one of
:10:11. > :10:14.the responsibilities of leadership, is to try as much as possible to
:10:15. > :10:19.bring people together. As well as just crushing them. I guess my point
:10:20. > :10:24.is, this is not a party that suddenly reverts to where it was
:10:25. > :10:28.after all when Mr Corbyn goes. This is a different Labour Party. That's
:10:29. > :10:32.the point I'm making. It is a different Labour Party and in some
:10:33. > :10:36.ways therein lies the opportunity for the Conservatives. There is very
:10:37. > :10:39.clear blue water there. What the Conservatives have totally failed to
:10:40. > :10:44.do is present themselves as a party that offers anything other than
:10:45. > :10:48.misery. A party that offers opportunity, aspiration and isn't
:10:49. > :10:54.just about making everything harder. The Daily Mail got it right when
:10:55. > :11:02.they said Theresa May has a gloom bucket. We're running out of time
:11:03. > :11:05.but I want to show you something here which may change the art of the
:11:06. > :11:06.Sunday political interview. Take a look at this.
:11:07. > :11:08.Are you absolutely clear that our environmental and food
:11:09. > :11:11.standards will not be loosened in any way, as a result of leaving
:11:12. > :11:14.the EU and doing free trade deals with other
:11:15. > :11:19.Up until the end of this Parliament, farmers have been guaranteed that
:11:20. > :11:23.You have suggested that very, very wealthy farmers,
:11:24. > :11:26.who get huge amounts of money from the EU at the moment,
:11:27. > :11:29.like Sir James Dyson and others, will get less money under
:11:30. > :11:37.Were you very, very surprised to be brought back?
:11:38. > :11:44.Michael Gove, thank you very much indeed.
:11:45. > :11:52.Well, this could change the art of the interview. Yes! Thanks a lot.
:11:53. > :11:58.Different politicians can do different things. Michael Gove is a
:11:59. > :12:00.big character, has a lot of licensed to say yes when he doesn't
:12:01. > :12:03.necessarily mean yes and we allow him to get away with it. Theresa May
:12:04. > :12:09.trying to pull that trick, not so much. It would be nice in my
:12:10. > :12:12.expensive she said yes or no to a question I asked! It would certainly
:12:13. > :12:18.make these programmes a lot shorter. LAUGHTER
:12:19. > :12:21.Nothing new about this. I listen to Michael Fallon tell the Armed Forces
:12:22. > :12:26.this week there was plenty of money in their budgets, it doesn't make it
:12:27. > :12:28.any more true. I am all in favour of those short interviews because there
:12:29. > :12:32.would be more room for the panel! You could have three minute
:12:33. > :12:37.political interviews and then half an hour of the panel afterwards. We
:12:38. > :12:41.promise not to do yes or no answers. They don't have to stop at yes or
:12:42. > :12:47.no, but I quite like when someone says yes or no and then explained
:12:48. > :12:50.why it is yes or no. So many politicians of all parties answer
:12:51. > :12:55.the question without getting to the yes or no bit. You just get a river
:12:56. > :12:58.of fudge. Tom makes a good point. Michael Gove is newly confident,
:12:59. > :13:03.he's just been reappointed to the Cabinet which he himself said he
:13:04. > :13:08.didn't expect. Therefore for the time being he is unsackable. They
:13:09. > :13:13.are all unsackable, they can all do this now! It does give you a bit
:13:14. > :13:17.more space for that yes or no direction, you know, which could
:13:18. > :13:22.land others, as Tom suggested, in trouble. He is in a strong place. I
:13:23. > :13:27.have feeling it won't reinvent the Sunday interview! That said this
:13:28. > :13:34.weekend, Wimbledon starts tomorrow so Joe will be back at 11 o'clock. I
:13:35. > :13:34.will be back at the same time next Sunday.
:13:35. > :14:05.Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.
:14:06. > :14:06.MAN: What makes you two make different from each other?
:14:07. > :14:17.but I don't, like, love it as much as Lucy.
:14:18. > :14:21.Oh, Arthur lives down the hill and I live down the hill.