:01:26. > :01:32.In the Midlands are we are rummaging in your rubbish and
:01:32. > :01:42.finding some startling information. Dumping in landfill costs councils
:01:42. > :01:42.
:01:42. > :31:01.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1759 seconds
:31:01. > :31:06.Hello. Coming up today, the true cost of dumping rubbish into
:31:06. > :31:11.landfill. Councils are paying out millions, keeping more pressure on
:31:11. > :31:18.their budgets as they fail to meet recycling targets. I wonder who
:31:18. > :31:22.will be on target here today and who will just be dumping rubbish?
:31:22. > :31:32.Nadhim Zahawi is the MP for Stratford on Avon and Richard
:31:32. > :31:34.
:31:35. > :31:41.Burden is the Labour MP for Birmingham. A this is just like the
:31:41. > :31:47.awkward squad who made life a misery for John Major. At in our
:31:47. > :31:51.party we have an open and frank discussion. Actually, that resulted
:31:51. > :31:57.us in staying out of the euro. If you look back now we have people
:31:57. > :32:00.like Bill Cash and others to thank for that, especially John Major. It
:32:00. > :32:06.is not too bad to have a robust debate and make sure government is
:32:06. > :32:11.doing the right thing. Talking of robust debates, Richard, I will
:32:11. > :32:16.helpfully point lead the Labour leadership issue you campaign for
:32:16. > :32:19.David Miliband rather than his brother. David, in the New
:32:19. > :32:26.Statesman this week said Labour should engage in a restless
:32:26. > :32:31.rethinking of its future directions. You also see in that up -- article
:32:31. > :32:37.that David Miliband heaped quite a lot of praise on his brother. It is
:32:37. > :32:41.right that all parties cannot take anything for granted. Where is the
:32:41. > :32:46.evidence of wrestlers rethinking of the future direction? We have got
:32:46. > :32:52.to recognise that we suffered a defeat. The Tories did not win in
:32:52. > :32:56.2010, but we certainly were beaten, there is no doubt about that. It is
:32:56. > :33:02.right we look at our policy, what the country will need, not now but
:33:03. > :33:07.in 2015. Let's get on with our top country this week. The fall in the
:33:07. > :33:14.number of Midlands students applying to university. It is down
:33:14. > :33:19.by 7%. Our students being put off by tuition fees of up to �9,000 the
:33:19. > :33:22.year being charged by some universities? We have been on
:33:23. > :33:27.campus to find out. Universities in this part of the
:33:27. > :33:37.country have seen just over 3,000 fewer students applying for courses
:33:37. > :33:37.
:33:37. > :33:44.compared to last year. A but the sector remains confident. We still
:33:44. > :33:50.had 24,500 students for 3,500 places. Aston University saw a fall
:33:50. > :33:55.in applications of 20%. In contrast the University of Wolverhampton
:33:55. > :34:00.bucks the national trend with a rise in applications of 5.4%.
:34:00. > :34:04.Coventry University also saw an increase of 2%. Despite the decline
:34:05. > :34:08.in applications, the university's ministers says he is encouraged
:34:08. > :34:14.that the number of people applying from disadvantaged backgrounds
:34:14. > :34:21.appears to have stayed the same. The lecturer's union say the hike
:34:21. > :34:27.in university fees is sheer folly. And the Midlands MP and shadow
:34:27. > :34:30.Universities Minister called for a lower fees cap of �6,000. That is
:34:30. > :34:34.an immediate measure that the Government could do if they
:34:34. > :34:38.exercise their choices differ only and said clearly, we are going to
:34:38. > :34:41.support young people rather than the banks. Current undergraduates
:34:41. > :34:46.we spoke to say they would still have applied despite the higher
:34:46. > :34:53.fees. Midlands universities have told us youngsters have a better
:34:53. > :34:58.chance in life with a higher education degree.
:34:58. > :35:02.Also with us here today is Professor David Green, the vice
:35:02. > :35:07.chancellor of was to university. He is an economist but we will forgive
:35:07. > :35:11.him that. He is the only current university executive head serving
:35:11. > :35:15.on the board of England's Training and Development Agency responsible
:35:15. > :35:20.for teacher training in schools. What has been your experience in
:35:20. > :35:25.Worcester on applications this time round? Our applications are just
:35:25. > :35:29.fractionally above last year at four UK's students. We are out liar
:35:29. > :35:34.because we have been the fastest- growing university for at the past
:35:34. > :35:39.few years. You also charged at 8,100 per year which is slightly
:35:39. > :35:44.lower than some of the fees. Is there a pattern that those with the
:35:44. > :35:48.higher fees like Aston are suffering the biggest downturn?
:35:48. > :35:52.do not think there is any correlation at all. I think it is
:35:52. > :35:58.all to do with what graduates are thinking in terms of employability
:35:58. > :36:03.and opportunities. Particularly universities, maybe it is the
:36:03. > :36:07.quality of their marketing campaign or something like that. Aston is a
:36:07. > :36:12.splendid institution, but it is important for us to think, what can
:36:12. > :36:16.we do to help our graduates become more employable and earn their way
:36:16. > :36:19.through university. We have heard the dip in numbers and are part of
:36:19. > :36:23.the country has been slightly less than the English average. How are
:36:23. > :36:28.concerned should we be about the general picture question mark we
:36:28. > :36:31.should be concerned. At a moment when the country really needs to
:36:31. > :36:36.invest in education and we need a more educated and skilled
:36:36. > :36:41.population to help us produce a way out of prosperity we have two
:36:41. > :36:48.problems. We are probably on course for one person in 10 fewer apply
:36:48. > :36:51.for university. Then we have about 17,500 fewer places in the country.
:36:51. > :36:57.At the point where we need more knowledgeable, skilled graduates,
:36:57. > :37:04.we are getting fewer. You have to look beyond the numbers. One of the
:37:04. > :37:12.quirks of this year is a quirk of birthrate. 18 years ago there were
:37:12. > :37:16.fewer births. Is that the total explanation? Absolutely not. We
:37:16. > :37:19.have to watch very carefully, but I am encouraged that in the lower
:37:20. > :37:24.socio-economic groups there has been hardly any change throughout
:37:24. > :37:29.the whole country. We have to be mindful of what is happening and be
:37:29. > :37:32.careful to watch. In terms of quality, one of the great
:37:32. > :37:38.indicators is students coming to this country from non EU countries
:37:38. > :37:43.which is up by almost 14%. It is an important indicator in terms of
:37:43. > :37:48.quality of education. The real point is that the doom-mongers have
:37:48. > :37:51.been wrong. The idea that we would fall off a cliff edge in terms of
:37:51. > :37:58.application has not happened. falling off the cliff then,
:37:58. > :38:03.Richard? I think of Nadhim is being a bit complacent. Students that I
:38:03. > :38:08.talk to her are really worried, and you would be when fees are troubled.
:38:08. > :38:13.As soon as that comes in you have a big drop. 3,000 fewer students
:38:13. > :38:18.applying to university in the West Midlands. David had a good point
:38:18. > :38:21.that it is not simply about fees, important though that is. It is
:38:21. > :38:26.also about students looking ahead and saying, is there any light at
:38:26. > :38:33.the end of the tunnel. If they did not see any opportunity, that will
:38:33. > :38:43.affected as well. We heard the suggestion of a cup of 6,000, would
:38:43. > :38:45.
:38:45. > :38:49.that be a realistic answer? -- suggestion of a cap. Young people
:38:49. > :38:55.feel they are being neglected by other parts of society. They have
:38:55. > :38:59.to pay for all their education -- higher education and that is wrong.
:38:59. > :39:06.What would you say to young people who feel neglected? I do not agree
:39:06. > :39:11.with that. There was a survey last week which looked at young people
:39:12. > :39:16.and their choices. Actually, it was incredibly positive in terms of
:39:16. > :39:22.policy and the quantum of tuition fees. It has not deterred young
:39:22. > :39:26.people making applications. One must not be complacent. The real
:39:26. > :39:33.question to Labour is that, they have spent the bankers bonus on
:39:33. > :39:43.opting things. You're saying let's have put it at 6,000 by taxing the
:39:43. > :39:49.bankers again. -- let's Capper it. You need the political will, the
:39:49. > :39:53.Tories have not got it, we have. Final word with you, Professor
:39:53. > :39:58.Green. Is there a political will to keep a watch on this? We should
:39:58. > :40:02.have a consensus. We need a more skilled population. Universities
:40:02. > :40:06.are central to that and we must invest in our young people for the
:40:06. > :40:12.future of the country. Whatever your point of view on this, there
:40:12. > :40:15.is no question that these are very tough times for young people.
:40:15. > :40:19.Let's moved on to research by this programme which has found local
:40:19. > :40:26.authorities are forking out millions in fines over rubbish.
:40:26. > :40:30.They can cost as much as some councils spend on libraries, four
:40:30. > :40:36.times their rural bus subsidies. As budgets are slashed and jobs cut,
:40:36. > :40:46.is it fair to penalise them for missing a European cycling --
:40:46. > :40:51.
:40:51. > :40:56.It is been day on the Dines Green estate in Worcester. Last week, it
:40:56. > :41:01.was recycling. This week, there is only one place the rubbish is
:41:01. > :41:06.heading. The landfill site on the edge of town is home to 180,000
:41:06. > :41:11.tonnes a year. But growing mountains of rubbish like these are
:41:11. > :41:15.costing our councils dear. All local authorities have to pay a
:41:15. > :41:20.landfill tax, essentially a Government find it to encourage
:41:20. > :41:25.them to hit European recycling rates. The problem is despite the
:41:26. > :41:29.fact our councils are throwing less to landfill, the fines are rising.
:41:29. > :41:34.Even though more and more of us are recycling are rubbish it is not
:41:34. > :41:38.enough to keep Brussels have before stop if you look at the headline
:41:38. > :41:44.figure you can see we are paying more tax, therefore we must be
:41:44. > :41:49.failing, but we are not. It is a long-term plan, you cannot change
:41:49. > :41:54.the system overnight but you need a clear and positive strategy which
:41:54. > :42:02.we are working to year on year. With budgets under pressure, the
:42:02. > :42:10.landfill tax is proving a headache. In the financial year 2005-2006,
:42:10. > :42:18.Worcester council sent 262,000 tonnes to landfill. In 2010-2011
:42:18. > :42:24.that waste had fallen to 127,000 tonnes but the fine had shot up to
:42:24. > :42:28.�5.8 million. At the same time Shropshire paid for 0.2 million and
:42:28. > :42:32.Gloucestershire 7 million. The figures have caught the eye of MEPs
:42:32. > :42:37.on the Continent. It should be a matter of the Westminster
:42:37. > :42:42.government. We should be able to spend our money in a meaningful way
:42:42. > :42:45.and are not be fined by the EU. reality is if we are going to
:42:45. > :42:51.reduce our carbon emissions and catch up with our European
:42:51. > :42:58.neighbours, the answer does not lie with holes in the ground. If people
:42:58. > :43:03.had understood earlier the drive behind sustainability and taking on
:43:03. > :43:09.the Green Party message a bit more, then we could have avoided a lot of
:43:09. > :43:14.the pain of landfill tax. Whilst most agree landfill is not the way
:43:14. > :43:21.forward, unless our accounts. Burying rubbish in the ground, they
:43:21. > :43:26.will continue to throw away good money after bad.
:43:26. > :43:30.Especially at a time when they do not have a lot of money. Richard,
:43:30. > :43:36.this is something which has gone on under successive governments. An
:43:36. > :43:41.example surely of the UK Government gold plating the euro regulations,
:43:41. > :43:46.the effect of this escalating. It is punitive on local authorities,
:43:46. > :43:50.especially at a time like this. There are two points. One is
:43:50. > :43:56.landfill tax and one is where it has come from. The landfill tax was
:43:56. > :43:59.brought in by a UK Government, a Conservative government in 1986,
:43:59. > :44:06.continued under the Labour government and his continued under
:44:06. > :44:11.the plait -- present government. At the root of this, it is not a good
:44:11. > :44:16.idea to be throwing lots of rubbish under the ground. You pay the tax
:44:16. > :44:21.if you land full. Authorities are doing their best, they have more
:44:21. > :44:25.than halved their landfill but still the rate goes up. We need to
:44:25. > :44:29.try and ensure that local authorities and others have the
:44:29. > :44:33.right kind of incentives to increase their recycling rates.
:44:33. > :44:38.We're making a lot of progress in reducing landfill but we're not
:44:38. > :44:41.doing as well as we should on increasing recycling. You dress it
:44:41. > :44:51.up with green arguments, but taxation is about revenue
:44:51. > :44:56.generation, isn't it? Not quite. You have to look at the evidence.
:44:56. > :45:01.You know I am very fond of the strategy, but look up the evidence
:45:01. > :45:06.from Stratford council. Are recycling is up to almost 60% which
:45:06. > :45:10.is fantastic. We have had a cheque from Warwickshire for half a
:45:10. > :45:14.million this year because we reduced our land full. Warwickshire
:45:14. > :45:20.County Council have joint ventures with another county to turn it
:45:20. > :45:24.refuses into energy. Those councils who were doing really well on this,
:45:24. > :45:31.that is important to remember. We will never hit the target we want
:45:31. > :45:35.to hit, 50% less landfill by 2020, if people are let off the hook.
:45:35. > :45:41.There are lots of other things that comes from Europe, other
:45:41. > :45:47.regulations which are bad, but this is not one of them. What do you
:45:47. > :45:51.make of the comment this is no place for you have to have a one-
:45:51. > :45:56.size-fits-all stance? Why should you be impose itself on a domestic
:45:56. > :46:01.issue? We are both saying that Europe is not doing that. The tax
:46:01. > :46:10.came in as a result of his decision by successive British governments.
:46:10. > :46:14.It may not be comfortable, but we do need to reduce landfill. You can
:46:14. > :46:17.only have a sensible argument about Europe if you blame them for the
:46:17. > :46:22.things they are responsible for, but do not blame them for things
:46:22. > :46:25.that were our decisions. Surely when this came in, times were very
:46:25. > :46:31.different. Finances with local authorities were very different
:46:31. > :46:34.from how they are now and it is a real struggle to make ends meet. We
:46:34. > :46:41.have heard councils are trying to wean themselves off landfill, but
:46:41. > :46:46.are still being punished. honestly believe that if you kept
:46:46. > :46:49.are barking up the wrong tree on this one. Local authorities are
:46:49. > :46:55.doing the right thing, they are getting there and we will hit our
:46:55. > :47:00.target. There are other things coming from you, the European
:47:00. > :47:04.structural fund needs reform. That is what we should focus on. It is
:47:04. > :47:11.absolutely wrong and takes away from your credibility if you attack
:47:11. > :47:16.Europe on the wrong things. Let's moved on to our regular high-speed
:47:16. > :47:26.round-up of this political week in just 60 seconds. Hass in your seat
:47:26. > :47:28.
:47:29. > :47:33.belts. -- fasten your seatbelts. Wanted, 500 new apprentices.
:47:33. > :47:37.Walsall council is offering money to take on youngsters and tackle
:47:37. > :47:41.youth employment. Vince Cable parachuted into
:47:41. > :47:47.Birmingham to lodge a flight school helping to inspire engineers of the
:47:47. > :47:51.future. It is a real showcase for this area. A successful airport, a
:47:51. > :47:57.good engineering, good skills. hospital parking gets you down
:47:57. > :48:01.spare a thought to visitors to Coventry University Hospital.
:48:01. > :48:06.Drivers wait for 25 minutes to find a space.
:48:06. > :48:10.Olympic officials revealed an advertising ban in the Ricoh Arena.
:48:11. > :48:14.It will be known as the City of Coventry stadium for this summer's
:48:14. > :48:17.games. Campaigners tried to stop gypsies
:48:17. > :48:27.developing green-belt land have been told their own camp will have
:48:27. > :48:29.
:48:29. > :48:35.Now we hear those campaigners have decided they are not going to
:48:35. > :48:40.appeal against the council decisions. Nadhim Zahawi, it is not
:48:40. > :48:44.in your constituency but it is a situation where the anti-
:48:44. > :48:49.occupation has to go but the original occupation can remain.
:48:49. > :48:53.travellers have lost their appeal. But you're absolutely right.
:48:53. > :48:59.Everyone should live within the lob and the campaigners have made a
:48:59. > :49:02.good point. And I am glad they are not appealing. For people looking
:49:02. > :49:06.at this and seeing the double standards were some people get to
:49:06. > :49:11.break the law, and break it systematically over many years
:49:11. > :49:14.whereas decent law-abiding people get their rights turned over.
:49:14. > :49:18.not a fundamental failure of successive politicians which fell
:49:18. > :49:25.to address the rights of gypsies and travelling people to have a
:49:25. > :49:29.place of their own and to marry that with the demands of residents.
:49:29. > :49:33.I think we have all failed on that to be honest. The last government
:49:33. > :49:37.improve things by placing some obligations on councils. But the
:49:37. > :49:43.fact does remain that in this part of the West Midlands there are not
:49:43. > :49:47.enough recognised sites that works. We do need to address that. In my
:49:47. > :49:51.constituency there were a number of issues with travellers' camps. They
:49:51. > :49:55.were not static, they were moving around but all in the space of
:49:55. > :50:00.about five miles. Unless we address this business of getting proper
:50:00. > :50:08.sites, we will not solve the problems. A final word about
:50:08. > :50:12.apprenticeships. Jail are, over 100 being offered. But 4,000
:50:12. > :50:19.applications come off what do we make of that? On Friday I visited
:50:19. > :50:24.Stratford College's Academy. A new state-of-the-art academy. 200
:50:24. > :50:33.apprentices going through that. But there are too many applications, we
:50:33. > :50:36.need more jobs. It is a success story. But we can do more. We could
:50:36. > :50:42.use the voting power of local authorities to make sure this