:00:42. > :00:46.Welcome. What is 130 billion euros between friends? After weeks of
:00:46. > :00:49.uncertainty, it looks like Chris is going to get its second multi-
:00:49. > :00:59.billion Euros bail out. Will it rescue the Greek economy from
:00:59. > :01:28.
:01:28. > :01:33.bankruptcy? It is up to one of its In the Midlands, a Sunday politics
:01:33. > :01:43.exclusive. Digby says know. Why is one of the most talked-about
:01:43. > :01:43.
:01:43. > :30:17.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1714 seconds
:30:17. > :30:20.candidates for mayor row -- ruling Hello and good morning from the
:30:20. > :30:24.Midlands. Coming up, we will be asking a straight question
:30:24. > :30:29.requiring a straight answer. A referendum in May will ask voters
:30:29. > :30:34.in Birmingham and Coventry whether they want an elected mayor or not.
:30:34. > :30:39.We will be meeting the man who is the Midlands first. Let's see if we
:30:39. > :30:44.can extract some straight answers from our guests today. Norman, now
:30:44. > :30:51.Lord Fowler, Conservative MP for Sutton Coldfield, one of the
:30:52. > :30:59.longest serving members of Margaret Thatcher's cabinet. And Ms Stewart,
:30:59. > :31:02.has nursed the Labour Party through many a year. Norman Fowler, you
:31:02. > :31:06.famously resigned from the government to spend more time with
:31:06. > :31:12.your family. What was the truth of that? Had you had enough of the
:31:12. > :31:17.Iron Lady? No, it wasn't. I had a very happy period, for 15 years.
:31:17. > :31:22.After a couple of years, my family said to me, well, they thought they
:31:22. > :31:28.had had enough of me and they might want me to go back to politics.
:31:28. > :31:32.Have you seen the film? I have it. Meryl Streep, I think, is fantastic.
:31:32. > :31:37.It is a brilliant performance and she gets it all right. The full is
:31:37. > :31:40.not as good. It is five stars for Meryl Street and three for the film
:31:40. > :31:44.generally. I mean, they get silly things wrong. I cannot remember
:31:44. > :31:53.Margaret Thatcher during Prime Minister's Questions wearing a hat.
:31:53. > :31:59.I just think that is balmy. I am told by the directors and producers
:31:59. > :32:03.it isn't at all about politics but an old lady with dementia. For you,
:32:03. > :32:08.it wasn't so much of the Iron Lady but by entrance love. You were
:32:08. > :32:13.never seen as one of his greatest fans. But should we applaud what he
:32:13. > :32:20.did give him your views on Europe? He kept the country out of the
:32:20. > :32:26.single currency. He did. And we need to give him credit for that.
:32:26. > :32:31.The whole system is unravelling and it is a painful process inside the
:32:31. > :32:35.euro or not. An interesting moment. We have broken the ice. The top
:32:35. > :32:39.story, one of the most talked-about potential candidates for mayor of
:32:39. > :32:44.Birmingham has sprung a major surprise by ruling himself out in
:32:44. > :32:49.an exclusive interview for this programme. Lord Digby, a trade
:32:49. > :32:54.minister and boss of the CBI, says the job confined within the city
:32:54. > :32:59.limits would be set to fail. I asked him why. If it is not
:32:59. > :33:04.education, then forget it. If it is not safety and security and
:33:04. > :33:09.policing completely, forget it. If it is not transport, in all its
:33:09. > :33:15.forms, including the whole essence of investment in transport and both
:33:15. > :33:19.aircraft and railways and then also roads, forget it. When you have a
:33:19. > :33:24.situation where the police actually don't look at it as Birmingham but
:33:24. > :33:29.as a wider entity, when you look at education, where so many people are
:33:29. > :33:33.going to school in one part and they will work in another part, and
:33:33. > :33:39.where you have Birmingham Airport not even in Birmingham, how on
:33:39. > :33:44.earth can a mare get up and make promises at an election which they
:33:44. > :33:47.cannot deliver? Unless there is that control for the West Midlands
:33:47. > :33:51.and there is actually be geographical spread for the West
:33:51. > :33:55.Midlands, I would have a real problem in getting my name go
:33:55. > :34:00.forward. So I would say to you today, Patrick, that unless they
:34:00. > :34:04.had a mare going for two for the city region, unless they had
:34:04. > :34:08.guaranteed influence and power and, indeed, executive influence and
:34:08. > :34:14.power over all policing, all education and all transport for the
:34:14. > :34:21.region, I will not let my name go forward. So, Digby Jones. To see
:34:21. > :34:25.that interview in full, go to my paid on Facebook. If the referendum
:34:25. > :34:29.triggers a competition, you will be campaigning for the Labour
:34:29. > :34:34.nomination and he says that job is set to fail to. Two things. It is
:34:34. > :34:38.only the mayor of Birmingham we can vote on, so to ask for a
:34:38. > :34:43.Metropolitan Mail, that is not a trace. We are the largest authority
:34:43. > :34:47.in the West Midlands, and talking about power, misunderstands the way
:34:47. > :34:52.practical decisions are made. If there was a mayor of Birmingham,
:34:52. > :34:55.directly elected by the people of the city, working together with the
:34:56. > :34:59.local enterprise partnerships, but in Greater Birmingham and the Black
:34:59. > :35:04.Country, you can create all of these relationships and do what he
:35:04. > :35:08.wants. He does say that the important elements, the airport,
:35:08. > :35:15.NEC, all of that is outside the city, so there is no direct
:35:15. > :35:18.leverage. Except that Birmingham Airport at the NEC would not have
:35:18. > :35:24.happened without the leadership which Birmingham took, so that
:35:24. > :35:29.tells you you can do something from -- for the region. I used surprised
:35:29. > :35:35.by this turn off events? particularly. His reason is
:35:35. > :35:39.nonsensical. The fact is that we had some of these regional
:35:39. > :35:49.structures that he wants, the West Midlands County Council, not as
:35:49. > :35:50.
:35:50. > :35:58.much power as Digby once. He says they are necessary. That is
:35:58. > :36:04.nonsense. I think that he is a shrewd campaigner. He is not going
:36:04. > :36:08.to win, he knows, so he will not let his name go forward. To be
:36:08. > :36:11.honest, I am not sure if politics really runs through the veins of
:36:12. > :36:18.Digby Jones. He is a great industrialist, great commercial
:36:18. > :36:23.person. But some of the things he wants are simply not... No one is
:36:23. > :36:27.ever going to give them to him. Actually, I don't think... That is
:36:27. > :36:35.the point. He says you need to escape the straitjacket and think
:36:35. > :36:39.in a list party-political wave of stock take Boris Johnson. He is
:36:39. > :36:46.looking at getting an airport. An airport dam in the estuary, which
:36:46. > :36:52.belongs to Essex or Kent. You don't have to own everything to actually
:36:52. > :36:55.cooperate. That is the bit. The debate is very good, and he did a
:36:55. > :37:00.very good job the Besigye eye, very good in industry, but he doesn't
:37:00. > :37:07.have too much experience in politics. You would hope to
:37:07. > :37:11.demonstrate it can be done, it has kept its like Digby Jones? Yes.
:37:11. > :37:15.Boris has no authority over education whereas a Birmingham
:37:15. > :37:20.mayor would have housing, education, public health... You take education.
:37:20. > :37:26.He would say that is a fundamental issue facing the city and everybody
:37:26. > :37:32.would agree. The mayor would have to have direct leverage over
:37:32. > :37:36.education than this job suppose has. I think he misunderstands the
:37:36. > :37:40.nature of leadership. It is not that you as the person on the top
:37:40. > :37:43.impose the will down and you will be a strong mayor in Birmingham if
:37:43. > :37:47.you have strong councillors and people to work with and you co-
:37:47. > :37:53.operate with others whereas he seems to think that, though, if I
:37:53. > :37:58.can sit at the top and coming back to the Iron Lady, she still had to
:37:58. > :38:03.go when the Cabinet didn't support her. So is strong mayor will be one
:38:03. > :38:13.that is supported by the people around him or her.
:38:13. > :38:14.
:38:14. > :38:19.OK, whelp those characteristic -- recipe Digby opinions are available
:38:19. > :38:24.on that level stock the way the city is run could be transformed.
:38:24. > :38:28.Birmingham Coventry could have their own versions of Ken or
:38:28. > :38:33.boroughs. We have tried it in Stoke-on-Trent.
:38:33. > :38:42.Don't be deceived by the euphoric reception for Stoke's first elected
:38:42. > :38:45.mayor. Democracy fools don't. the elected mayor was no more. His
:38:45. > :38:51.Labour successor had his job abolished in a referendum six years
:38:51. > :38:57.later. If Michael had had more time, St artworks would have become a
:38:57. > :39:01.feature of the urban landscape but despite the City's mayoral roller-
:39:01. > :39:05.coaster ride, he feels it is time for Birmingham and Coventry to put
:39:05. > :39:09.a stop to an outdated system of local government. If you were
:39:09. > :39:14.running Stoke City Football Club, for instance, Tony Pulis would not
:39:14. > :39:17.say it would be better if it is run by a committee. In the code --
:39:17. > :39:22.Victorian times, when local government was invented, that is
:39:22. > :39:26.the way business conducted itself. These days, we have leaders, and
:39:26. > :39:30.that is why organisations succeed. Ministers are warming up the debate
:39:30. > :39:33.by consulting over extra powers for cities which decide to collect
:39:33. > :39:38.their mayors. Each candidate would have to sell their individual wish-
:39:38. > :39:43.list. On 3rd May, voters will be offered a tries either to retain
:39:43. > :39:51.the existing council leaders system or replace it with a new Star City
:39:51. > :39:55.boss. A voting yes would only trigger more questions. What should
:39:55. > :39:59.be the powers of the mayor? Economic regeneration is the
:39:59. > :40:02.Government's big idea along with housing and transport. What would
:40:02. > :40:07.the councillors do? Well, scrutinised the mayor, of course,
:40:07. > :40:13.and probably speak up for their local areas. Which, in turn, leads
:40:13. > :40:16.to the question of localism. How could the mayor keep close to local
:40:16. > :40:20.communities are also, at the same time, acting as a champion for the
:40:20. > :40:26.city in the wider world? Here in Coventry, the Labour-controlled
:40:26. > :40:30.council voted overwhelmingly against the idea. Coventry has been
:40:30. > :40:36.forced to have a referendum. There is no evidence from the citizens we
:40:36. > :40:39.want to one. That means that we have had to undertake costs of
:40:39. > :40:43.�130,000 in respect of the referendum and we could have a
:40:43. > :40:47.third election in November which would cost us a further bomb under
:40:47. > :40:52.�30,000. At a time when we are making cuts of �17 million.
:40:52. > :40:56.elected mayors would be seen as a further Americanisation. A more
:40:56. > :41:00.presidential style of politics. Super Tuesday is two weeks away for
:41:00. > :41:04.their race in the White House. On our side of the pond, November 15th
:41:04. > :41:09.with elections for police commissioners and city mayors is
:41:09. > :41:12.already shaping up as our own super Thursday.
:41:12. > :41:15.Super! For a full list of some of the
:41:15. > :41:23.people who may or may not let their names go forward if elections are
:41:23. > :41:30.triggered by that referendum, go to my bloc. We are joined by John
:41:30. > :41:33.Hemming, the Liberal Democrat MP for Birmingham Yardley. Last year,
:41:33. > :41:38.Keith made an alliance with the Labour MP to campaign against the
:41:38. > :41:41.idea of an elected mayor, which he desired -- is that as a power freak.
:41:41. > :41:48.But far from being too powerful, the role as and powerful enough,
:41:48. > :41:51.according to Dick be. He doesn't understand it. Human nature has not
:41:51. > :41:55.changed. In most organisations, like football clubs, having boards,
:41:55. > :41:59.you can remove somebody if they are not doing the right thing. The idea
:41:59. > :42:03.of electing somebody for four years, whom the council cannot remove,
:42:03. > :42:08.cannot stop them from doing anything apart from the control of
:42:08. > :42:12.the Budget, that is wrong. Human nature has not a improved. Do you
:42:12. > :42:15.take the fundamental point that you need greater accountability,
:42:15. > :42:24.greater visibility than we have in local authorities at the moment?
:42:24. > :42:28.People bought some the streets and, frankly would struggle to find
:42:28. > :42:33.anybody from knows about the council. In Tower Hamlets, only a
:42:33. > :42:36.quarter of the people voted for the mayor. I have expense of running
:42:36. > :42:40.business as well as experience of running Birmingham City Council.
:42:40. > :42:47.The text and -- techniques you use a different view used in politics
:42:47. > :42:50.of stock or business organisations have accountability is. -- in
:42:51. > :42:54.politics. All business organisations have accountability.
:42:54. > :42:59.You could be creating a monster. The councillors and the rest of the
:42:59. > :43:04.authority might not be able to deal with I am. At the moment, the
:43:04. > :43:09.leader can be affected by as few as 30 councillors because 120
:43:09. > :43:13.councillors, you need a majority of 61. You don't know who you are
:43:13. > :43:18.voting for at the beginning and the kind of accountability is to a very
:43:18. > :43:27.small number of councillors. If we move towards participatory
:43:27. > :43:31.democracy, people want more of the same. -- more of a safe. I agree.
:43:31. > :43:39.He is going to be more directly and personally accountable than we have
:43:39. > :43:44.had before. It could be difficult. It could be megalomania. You have
:43:44. > :43:48.got to have a balance. Have got to put your ideas into practice. I
:43:48. > :43:52.don't think you want to actually torpedoed the person after 18
:43:52. > :43:57.months. That is nonsensical. The other thing we have got to think
:43:57. > :44:02.about is the world is changing. We have got the mayor in London. We
:44:02. > :44:08.have got other ones around in the country and in Europe and the
:44:08. > :44:11.United States as well. A city of the size and importance of
:44:11. > :44:14.Birmingham does need somebody to go out there, to get the inward
:44:14. > :44:18.business and to make the case for Birmingham. That is the best way to
:44:18. > :44:22.do it. We have this strange situation where individual
:44:22. > :44:26.candidates, it would be up to them to set out their powers, which
:44:26. > :44:31.seems to me that should be up front in all this before we even think
:44:31. > :44:35.about referendums. Is it not been done back-to-front? What I thought
:44:35. > :44:40.was interesting is that some of the powers are defined, and Secretary
:44:40. > :44:43.of State, if that was part of a candidate's election campaign,
:44:44. > :44:49.maybe the people would think that is the power of the mayor should
:44:49. > :44:57.have. For centuries, we have had checks and balances and human
:44:57. > :45:01.nature has not got a brilliant. Politicians are not perfect people.
:45:01. > :45:06.Winnie to checks and balances in business. -- we need checks and
:45:06. > :45:12.balances. What I was unclear about, which was
:45:12. > :45:16.a passionate denunciation, if the referendum goes in favour of a
:45:16. > :45:22.mayor for Birmingham, will you be a candidate? My priority is
:45:22. > :45:27.corruption in the secret courts. If I feel I have made sufficient
:45:27. > :45:32.progress, maybe I would stand and win. I think that you are a very
:45:32. > :45:36.clever man and the more I hear you campaigning against it, I think you
:45:36. > :45:44.more of an anti-missile missile, the anti- mayor, the tribune of the
:45:44. > :45:54.people. We have a secret courts in this country, and it is a problem
:45:54. > :45:56.
:45:56. > :46:02.in this country. It is a priority. If I was to bet Today, I would bet
:46:02. > :46:06.that you would stand. I am working on projects highlighting corruption.
:46:06. > :46:11.Would you consider standing yourself, Norman? There are not
:46:11. > :46:16.that many Tories put forward. one has asked me to stand. It
:46:16. > :46:21.sounds as though it is a bit crowded around this table already!
:46:21. > :46:26.It is a very worthwhile job and one of the most important things it is
:46:26. > :46:30.worthwhile for is what you want a mayor to do, one of them is the
:46:30. > :46:37.economic generation of the Midlands and training as well. If you can
:46:37. > :46:42.get that and of a local basis, that would be brilliant. Thank you both.
:46:42. > :46:46.We will not offer you a referendum on this, you have no tries in the
:46:46. > :46:55.matter. A round-up of the political week in the Midlands in six to set
:46:55. > :46:59.tense. -- in 60 seconds.
:46:59. > :47:06.150 jobs are to go in Wolverhampton City Council taking total losses to
:47:06. > :47:12.more than 800. It needs to save �73 million over five years.
:47:12. > :47:16.Staying with drugs, unemployment is up for that 247,000 a out of work
:47:16. > :47:21.in the Midlands, a rate of 9.3%. don't underestimate the challenge
:47:21. > :47:24.of the figures we see today, but I think they would like some
:47:24. > :47:26.stabilisation in this situation and there are quite a lot of vacancies
:47:27. > :47:33.out there. French prosecutors have begun an
:47:33. > :47:39.inquiry into a Nazi theme stag party at the tender by Aidan Burley.
:47:39. > :47:46.-- attended by Ford's dog this new website one's environment secretary
:47:46. > :47:50.Caroline Spelman arrest it. -- arrested.
:47:50. > :47:59.See you in court, a message from campaigners opposed a high-speed
:47:59. > :48:04.rail line from Birmingham to London. They want a judicial review.
:48:04. > :48:13.Now, Mr Wood is the chairman of the all-party group are in support of
:48:13. > :48:16.HS2. This could slow this thing down to a halt. I really do hope we
:48:16. > :48:22.start to learn that big infrastructure projects need to be
:48:22. > :48:26.proceeded with at pace. Is it a serious threat? Do you take it
:48:26. > :48:31.seriously? I always take threats to the court seriously, but I hope
:48:31. > :48:34.they will not go down that line, otherwise we will end up, yet again,
:48:34. > :48:38.dithering over infrastructure projects, something we have been
:48:38. > :48:45.suffering from enough. We need to get on with it, because if pages 2,
:48:45. > :48:50.which will go beyond, we may not see that beyond my retirement!
:48:50. > :48:55.over, if it isn't on the statute book by 2015, it might not happen
:48:56. > :48:59.at all. Is the clock ticking? We have failed in this country with
:48:59. > :49:04.infrastructure project of the infrastructure product. I remember
:49:04. > :49:09.from my days trying to get road schemes through, you waded through
:49:09. > :49:13.protesters and the M25 everyone says it should be much bigger. Well,
:49:14. > :49:17.I only have to say as the minister was partially doing it, you did get
:49:17. > :49:22.protest after protest. I am sure there will be an attempt at a
:49:22. > :49:26.judicial review, but that is not going to derail the thing
:49:26. > :49:31.necessarily. What you need is governments and politicians
:49:31. > :49:35.remaining faithful and remain consistent to the project. Well,
:49:35. > :49:43.that is one for us to follow in the coming months and years ahead. That
:49:43. > :49:50.is just about it from us. So, my thanks to Norman Fowler and Gisela
:49:50. > :49:54.Stuart. As if to scotch the old adage that politics is showbiz but
:49:54. > :50:01.ugly people, I will be joined by Tristram Hunt next week and Margot