:01:29. > :01:39.And in the Midlands, the elected commissioners who will take charge
:01:39. > :01:39.
:01:39. > :31:46.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1806 seconds
:31:46. > :31:50.of budgets, complaints and hiring The hello again from the Midlands.
:31:50. > :31:54.I am Patrick Burns. Pull commissioners transform a
:31:54. > :31:57.policeman's lock into a happy one? They will have powers to set
:31:57. > :32:01.budgets, hire and fire Chief Constables but will have the voters
:32:01. > :32:06.to answer to if it goes wrong. Let's meet our guests here today.
:32:06. > :32:13.An intriguing blend of relative youth and lofty experience, Bill
:32:13. > :32:21.Cash, the Conservative MP for Stone who has been an MP as long ago as
:32:21. > :32:29.19 a four and Shabana Mahmood was elected Labour MP for Ladywood as
:32:29. > :32:39.recent as 2010 -- Bill Cash, you have been a thorn in the side of a
:32:39. > :32:39.
:32:39. > :32:45.succession of Tory party leaders. How did you feel when... The issue
:32:45. > :32:46.on which the remark was made his now proving to be right. Many of
:32:46. > :32:50.now proving to be right. Many of now proving to be right. Many of
:32:50. > :32:53.the arguments which are put forward with others during the Maastricht
:32:53. > :33:00.rebellion and sense on the European issue. I think everybody would now
:33:00. > :33:06.agree have pretty much come true. I think it is perhaps a complement!
:33:06. > :33:09.There it was not intended as such. You are also an author. You have
:33:09. > :33:15.published an acclaimed biography of the Victorian statesman, John
:33:15. > :33:20.Bright, after whom John Bright Street was named. You often say
:33:20. > :33:25.that his ideas, albeit from the Victorian era, our ideas for our
:33:25. > :33:29.time as well. I really think so. He, with others, fought for
:33:29. > :33:35.parliamentary democracy to give the votes to the working class. It was
:33:35. > :33:40.centred on Birmingham and he performed a great service by
:33:40. > :33:49.providing people with the right to vote and unfortunately I think that
:33:49. > :33:57.people perhaps take it for granted now and that our parliamentary
:33:57. > :34:02.system is in need of reform. Shabana Mahmood, you have been
:34:02. > :34:09.fast-tracked to the front bench to a position of abject loyalty.
:34:09. > :34:11.have to disagree, I am having a great time in the shadow business
:34:11. > :34:18.Thame, Shadow Minister for Higher Education and I am really pleased
:34:18. > :34:25.to be able to stand up for students and the next generation -- shadow
:34:25. > :34:33.business tame. You work in any what is described as a deprived
:34:33. > :34:37.constituency, do you find you are talking down things? No, my
:34:37. > :34:41.constituents represent what the parties as a nationally. Let's get
:34:41. > :34:45.on with our top story, the pressure that is building on the Chancellor
:34:45. > :34:48.to scrap the planned August increase in fuel duty in his Budget
:34:48. > :34:52.in ten days' time. That is certainly the message that
:34:52. > :34:56.campaigners to do Westminster. The three pence per litre rise which
:34:56. > :35:01.they say will further damage businesses and choke off economic
:35:01. > :35:06.growth. Andy Boyle describes himself as a
:35:06. > :35:12.diesel millionaire, spending �1 million on fuel last year to keep
:35:12. > :35:16.his business on the road. Diesel costs are now one quarter of his
:35:16. > :35:22.costs. Good for such a great impact on my business that I have to pass
:35:22. > :35:26.the cost on. Unfortunately, the fall-out from that his customers
:35:26. > :35:29.don't have to pay me, they can go somewhere else. But it is not just
:35:29. > :35:34.business is feeling the pain. Motorists are becoming increasingly
:35:34. > :35:42.aware that more than half the cost of a litre of fuel is tax and VAT.
:35:42. > :35:47.Do his graceful. The amount of tax taken off it, we are still got to
:35:47. > :35:51.drive our cars around. I can cope myself but yes, it is expensive.
:35:51. > :35:55.Expensive if you are running two family cars as well. I do find it
:35:55. > :36:00.expensive. I don't use it as much as before, but it must be nearly
:36:00. > :36:05.double to what it was forced up the Government scrapped the three pence
:36:06. > :36:11.per litre rise which was due to come in to effect in January.
:36:11. > :36:15.now effective in August unless the Chancellor changes his mind. Tell
:36:15. > :36:18.them they hardship you are going through. The real difficulty is
:36:18. > :36:23.that this unsupportable burden of fuel duty is having on your day-to-
:36:23. > :36:26.day life. Which is why Andy Boyle joined hundreds of campaigners
:36:26. > :36:32.lobbying their MPs in Westminster are asking for, if not a reduction
:36:32. > :36:35.in fuel costs, at least no further increases.
:36:35. > :36:40.Never any shortage of advice for the Chancellor during the run-up to
:36:40. > :36:49.Budget day. Cath Mackie reporting there. You have to feel for Andy
:36:49. > :36:53.Boyle, the haulier there. �1 million on fuel but what room for
:36:53. > :36:58.manoeuvre has George Osborne got? absolutely sympathise with what
:36:58. > :37:04.motorists and Marcus twins say, they have been lobbying me about it.
:37:04. > :37:11.I think -- and what my constituents say. I think he should go for a
:37:11. > :37:15.temporary cut in VAT and bring it back from 20% down to 17.5%. That
:37:15. > :37:19.would take 3p off the cost of fuel per litre immediately and it would
:37:19. > :37:28.put �480 into the pockets of hard- pressed families. I think he could
:37:28. > :37:33.kill two birds with one stone. temporary VAT cut, Bill Cash?
:37:33. > :37:36.have something for people who drive cars and hauliers. We are a
:37:36. > :37:46.marginal constituency as well and people need cars to get around and
:37:46. > :37:47.
:37:47. > :37:51.quite frankly, on 2009 figures, nearly 31 billion revenue from the
:37:51. > :37:57.fuel duties. I personally think it has gone too far and I think the
:37:57. > :38:00.element of tax is enormous and I frankly think that we should extend
:38:00. > :38:09.the opportunity for people to be able to buy fuel at a reasonable
:38:09. > :38:13.price. Thinking about fuel duty itself which I notice you slightly
:38:13. > :38:18.sidestep, the campaigners on the fuel protest said the 2.5%
:38:18. > :38:25.relaxation in the duty would actually deliver a third of a %
:38:25. > :38:29.growth to GDP and bring in jobs according to their research. It is
:38:29. > :38:34.a ballot proposal but I think if you go for a temporary cut in VAT,
:38:34. > :38:37.you can not only take 3p of a litre but also do other things as well
:38:37. > :38:40.which will help kick-start the economy which would be better for
:38:40. > :38:46.all of us. That is the way forward in the circumstances in which we
:38:46. > :38:50.find ourselves. The Budget we are told is about growth and the irony
:38:50. > :38:53.is the effects of policy are to inhibit growth. He took the words
:38:53. > :38:57.out of my mouth. It is growth and small and medium-size businesses.
:38:57. > :39:02.That is why we must put the emphasis and I really think that
:39:02. > :39:06.fuel duties are an inhibitor of growth and if you want to tackle
:39:06. > :39:10.the deficit, you must get growth by increasing the capacity of private
:39:10. > :39:15.enterprise to provide the Revenue for public expenditure. It is a
:39:15. > :39:19.virtuous circle and I think the puled duties are far too high.
:39:19. > :39:24.is interesting because you are both on a similar if not quite the same
:39:24. > :39:29.page. Do you think the Chancellor is listening? No shortage of advice.
:39:29. > :39:34.When I put it to the him a few months ago. That growth was the key
:39:34. > :39:39.to everything, I got a sympathetic response. I believe this is an
:39:39. > :39:46.element of the capacity to produce growth an eye, for my part, and
:39:47. > :39:51.very convinced that there is a need to serve may not increase. I am
:39:51. > :39:55.slightly disconcerted because I find myself agreeing with Bill and
:39:55. > :40:04.that is why Labour has put forward a five point plan for growth. Vince
:40:04. > :40:10.Cable has criticised this week for not having a strategy for growth
:40:10. > :40:17.and that is dangerous for the Business secretary to stir a.
:40:17. > :40:21.He should set police budget? -- who should said police budgets? From
:40:21. > :40:25.November, it will be the police commissioner. Elected in each force
:40:25. > :40:32.area to replace the police authorities which ministers say
:40:32. > :40:42.lack clout and accountability. Our political reporter asks what
:40:42. > :40:42.
:40:43. > :40:47.individual it might take to police Wanted - a voice of the people. Who
:40:47. > :40:54.will hold the Chief Constable to account and lead the community in
:40:54. > :41:02.If you have all these skills, you could be just the kind of person
:41:02. > :41:10.the Government is looking for to From West Midlands Police to savage
:41:10. > :41:16.a, local people in 41 different areas will elect a commissioner --
:41:16. > :41:19.to Staffordshire. Some people worry about who they may end up with.
:41:19. > :41:26.like to think that in the area, people getting in touch with us are
:41:26. > :41:29.doing it for the right reasons but I am sure up and down the country
:41:29. > :41:34.people are applying who have not had the career they wanted and are
:41:35. > :41:38.now seeking another high-profile job to fulfil themselves. The most
:41:38. > :41:44.high-profile of them all is John Prescott who wants the Humberside
:41:44. > :41:48.police job but the Midlands have a fair few politicians in the frame.
:41:48. > :41:53.Like James Plaskitt who lost his seat at the last election and wants
:41:53. > :41:56.to be Warwickshire's police commissioner. A plethora of
:41:56. > :42:01.politicians are vying for the West Midlands Police post which promises
:42:01. > :42:05.a pay packet of up to �100,000 per year. And then there is Simon
:42:05. > :42:09.Murphy, who is after West Mercia Police. He used to be Labour's top
:42:10. > :42:14.MEP in Europe but stood down eight years ago to spend more time with
:42:14. > :42:18.his family. Politicians to have been around the block a few times
:42:18. > :42:22.know how to work with government ministers and the Civil Service in
:42:22. > :42:30.Whitehall. How to defend budgets from being cut, had to run the
:42:30. > :42:34.partnerships that will be required to reduce crime and help fund lad
:42:34. > :42:40.police services in places like West Mercia. Police authorities will be
:42:40. > :42:43.replaced by the commissioners. One former West Midlands Police Chief
:42:43. > :42:46.thinks politicians might be better placed for the role than people
:42:46. > :42:50.with a policing background. perception is that you want
:42:50. > :42:54.somebody separate from the police hold in the police to account and a
:42:54. > :42:57.thicket balls straight away that that theory falls straight away if
:42:57. > :43:01.you have a former police person. The public police person is that
:43:01. > :43:05.they are in the wrong camp. Government says it is spreading the
:43:05. > :43:15.net for candidates widely. In eight months, the public will decide to
:43:15. > :43:20.
:43:20. > :43:23.get the keys. -- will decide who Also with us here today is Martin
:43:23. > :43:27.Searle who will be running for police commissioner in
:43:27. > :43:31.Gloucestershire where he served as a superintendent, in command of
:43:31. > :43:35.operations in the Cheltenham and Tewkesbury area before moving to UK
:43:35. > :43:40.counter-terrorism role five years ago and retired a couple of months
:43:40. > :43:43.or so ago. What you want the job, Martin? It is an important job. A
:43:43. > :43:51.great opportunity to serve the people of Gloucestershire and that
:43:51. > :43:55.that that police forces are increasingly important and I feel I
:43:55. > :43:58.have the qualities to do that. I know the area well and I see it is
:43:58. > :44:03.a great opportunity to move the police Ford, engage with the people
:44:03. > :44:12.and be that conduit between the people and the police. But Jefferey
:44:12. > :44:16.said in that report that you are insufficiently independent of the
:44:16. > :44:20.police which might mean you might want to meddle in details. I think
:44:20. > :44:25.I have done my meddling. He makes a valid point and for some police it
:44:25. > :44:32.would be very different but I am not standing as a police officer.
:44:32. > :44:36.That is only part of the role. But will take me just so far -- that
:44:36. > :44:40.will take me so far. I think policing is a great qualification
:44:40. > :44:44.to start but there is a whole load more to that job which she can
:44:44. > :44:49.demonstrate an tell the people what that is. What style of leader would
:44:49. > :44:56.you be? Are you a kind of sensitive, community type or a strict security
:44:56. > :45:00.tap? The former, absolutely. You must represent all the people, not
:45:00. > :45:03.just one section. The needs of people are crucial. Life is
:45:03. > :45:12.complicated, policing is complicated. I am setting out my
:45:12. > :45:16.manifesto based on appeal principles set out in 1929. All
:45:16. > :45:20.commissioners should work towards these. Bill Cash, isn't there a
:45:20. > :45:26.danger of a fragmented police service? We have one force with a
:45:26. > :45:30.commissioner who is policing by consent type as Martin is and a
:45:30. > :45:33.more security focused person elsewhere? I think the key thing is
:45:33. > :45:39.accountability but also the party has to respond to local
:45:39. > :45:45.requirements. He will be elected on what people want end their area and
:45:45. > :45:49.the mention of Robert Peel, the Staffordshire Member of Parliament
:45:49. > :45:54.who set up the original police force. I believe very strongly that
:45:54. > :45:59.if we get the accountability right and the response to the local
:45:59. > :46:02.people's requirements, it will be fragmented and -- it would be
:46:02. > :46:06.fragmented, it will be the right person in the right place for the
:46:06. > :46:11.right job. Isn't the police service a bit of a shake-up which your
:46:11. > :46:15.government Dr? No, and I voted against this because when you are
:46:15. > :46:19.facing deep cuts to the budgets, this is the wrong policy and
:46:19. > :46:23.priority and it is absolutely the wrong time. The Fide had to choose
:46:23. > :46:30.between coppers on the beat and commissioners, I would choose
:46:30. > :46:34.coppers on the beat -- if I had to choose. On the latest blog post,
:46:34. > :46:38.somebody says "my worry is just a political will baby, can they
:46:38. > :46:41.divorce themselves from political affiliations and
:46:41. > :46:49.interference?"Nathan says this is an invisible revolution in the
:46:49. > :46:52.major change and shock many aid chief -- many a Chief Constable.
:46:52. > :46:56.Isn't there a danger that target- setting politically will raise its
:46:56. > :47:06.ugly head? Big vote in Gloucestershire if I get elected, I
:47:06. > :47:11.can assure you -- it will not in Gloucestershire if I get elected.
:47:11. > :47:15.We moved away from criminalising it targets. The political debate is a
:47:15. > :47:20.good debate, I have no objection to former politicians applying for
:47:20. > :47:23.this role. The difficulty I have with it is the party political
:47:24. > :47:27.stance. I do not want to hear a headline that West Midlands Police
:47:27. > :47:33.has been won for the Tory party, the Labour Party in the same way
:47:33. > :47:37.that elections in councils are won for one party. Bill Cash, there are
:47:37. > :47:41.a lot of political names in frames. It is bound to become politicised,
:47:41. > :47:45.isn't it? I would not wanted to be under no there are lots of people
:47:45. > :47:50.who are senior politicians who are going for it like John Prescott and
:47:50. > :47:53.then other people who have not got that kind of high profile and there
:47:53. > :47:59.are people who were going from an independent background as well. It
:47:59. > :48:03.is up to people to choose. Actually I do hope that by November we will
:48:04. > :48:07.have a really good campaign to make certain that the best balance is
:48:07. > :48:11.achieved for the community because they are the ones to achieve it.
:48:11. > :48:16.Something has to be done, Shabana Mahmood, because doesn't the
:48:16. > :48:21.Government have a point, they are low profile and have not got the
:48:21. > :48:24.required clout? We need to reform and reinvigorate police authorities
:48:24. > :48:26.and that is where the Government should have headed. We are in a
:48:26. > :48:32.position where we will have commissioners and we must make the
:48:32. > :48:36.best of a bad job. And not just an insider's job as well. Thank you
:48:36. > :48:39.and especially to Martin. This is where we go out on the beat again
:48:39. > :48:44.at the double. Time for our regular round-up of the political week in
:48:44. > :48:52.the Midlands in just 60 seconds brought to us by BBC Radio Stoke's
:48:52. > :48:58.The army was recruiting in Staffordshire this weekend giving
:48:58. > :49:00.school pupils do taste of army life in MoD Stafford. Pole 1,000 people
:49:00. > :49:04.signed up from the West Midlands each year.
:49:04. > :49:10.And you Lulsley suggests there must be significant investment in
:49:10. > :49:16.hospitals in the West Midlands. -- Andrew Lansley. It will mean
:49:16. > :49:26.additional emergency department capacity and maternity capacity for
:49:26. > :49:27.
:49:27. > :49:30.things in Telford. More beds and The council wants to put Port Vale
:49:30. > :49:33.football club into administration, and denied it was a waste of
:49:33. > :49:39.taxpayers' money. But could step benefit from becoming part of
:49:39. > :49:43.Staffordshire? I will be sharing a BBC Radio Stoke debate.
:49:43. > :49:46.Mike Pritchard resigned from his post as deputy chairman of the
:49:47. > :49:55.Tories international committee. He wants to speak out about the
:49:55. > :49:57.Government's's policy on Europe and I don't know if that counts as a
:49:57. > :50:07.promise by Mark Pritchard. Bill Cash, are we seeing another
:50:07. > :50:11.
:50:11. > :50:14.emergence of the awkward squad that made John Major's life a misery?
:50:14. > :50:18.Immigration and Europe were big issues that missed out in attention
:50:18. > :50:21.from the last election and we have now seen the complete mess that
:50:21. > :50:25.Europe is in. It needs renegotiation and those of us in
:50:25. > :50:29.the House of Commons to share these views and Mark Pritchard is one of
:50:30. > :50:34.them, as far as I and concerned are doing exactly the right thing.
:50:34. > :50:39.There you are, Shabana. If I can use a word from the other side,
:50:39. > :50:46.schadenfreude for you, looking at the discomfort of your opponents?
:50:46. > :50:49.We have a discussion in our national debate about the tensions
:50:49. > :50:52.within the coalition. They are probably a bigger problem in the
:50:52. > :50:57.Conservative Party for David Cameron and you can see that as
:50:57. > :51:02.time goes on. David Cameron used the veto which are strongly
:51:02. > :51:08.recommended he did and made our position spiked upwards. That is
:51:08. > :51:12.the position that people want, they want a referendum and they are very,
:51:12. > :51:18.very concerned about the effect of European policy. That really is it
:51:18. > :51:21.from us here in the Midlands Today. Thank you to Bill Cash and Shabana
:51:21. > :51:26.Mahmood. Incidentally, that debate on whether or not Stoke would be
:51:26. > :51:30.better on not off in Staffordshire, that will be in the Staffordshire