17/02/2013

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:01:25. > :01:29.And in the Midlands, the fall-out from Stafford spread to three more

:01:29. > :01:39.our hospitals. They are under investigation because of

:01:39. > :01:39.

:01:39. > :37:15.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2136 seconds

:37:15. > :37:21.persistently high death rate. Sound Hello once again from the Midlands,

:37:21. > :37:25.I am Patrick Burns and an joined today by two of our region's rising

:37:25. > :37:32.Westminster stars if you believe the hype. Nadhim Zahawi is the

:37:32. > :37:36.Conservative MP for Stratford-on- Avon and has been identified as the

:37:36. > :37:40.Cabinet minister in the year 2020 by the Conservative Home website if

:37:40. > :37:45.the party is in power at the time. In your dreams, says Emma Reynolds,

:37:45. > :37:52.the Labour MP for Wolverhampton because she has got to the shadow

:37:52. > :37:55.front bench. It is good to have you both with us. Let's get to business.

:37:55. > :37:59.The BBC has revealed that of all the compensation claims from people

:37:59. > :38:06.living on the proposed high-speed railway line between London and

:38:06. > :38:09.Birmingham, just one quarter have so far been accepted. The

:38:09. > :38:14.Exceptional Hardship Scheme was brought in for those who needed to

:38:14. > :38:21.move home early. 428 applications have been received but only 103

:38:21. > :38:29.have been approved. HS2 Ltd has bought 72 properties at a cost of

:38:29. > :38:32.�43 million. It took one resident from Wishaw four attempts to get

:38:32. > :38:35.the deal he deserved. It is devastating when you get turned

:38:35. > :38:40.down because you do not know why you will go forward, everything

:38:40. > :38:43.gets put on hold. He can't do anything, spend any money,

:38:43. > :38:48.everything you do revolves around the fact that you are basically

:38:48. > :38:54.stuck in time. You are waiting for them to make a decision. They are

:38:54. > :39:04.in a pretty clear cut case, by the look of it, Nadhim. It should not

:39:04. > :39:04.

:39:04. > :39:08.take four attempt. The evidence to have uncovered is disturbing and be

:39:08. > :39:17.compensation is pretty generous, people within the first 60 metres

:39:17. > :39:21.near the rail line will get market price plus 10% on top, up to 47,000

:39:21. > :39:26.and the next 120 metres is market price and beyond that, people can

:39:26. > :39:31.still make an argument for their property to be bought. It is a

:39:31. > :39:39.pretty generous compensation but if the time it takes is that long,

:39:39. > :39:43.that is the thing that is so painful. And quite enough

:39:43. > :39:48.aggravation, particularly among your party colleagues, if you do

:39:48. > :39:51.not get compensation early enough it adds to the desperation. Yes.

:39:51. > :39:57.Now we have got the right levels which are generous enough and in

:39:57. > :40:01.the right space, effectively, it's important that the implementation

:40:01. > :40:04.and the speed at which these things are dealt with is done efficiently

:40:04. > :40:10.and it is important that anybody watching this today who is having

:40:10. > :40:15.the sort of problems, they should take it up with their MP and the

:40:15. > :40:19.Secretary of State because we need to stamp on this. No wonder you

:40:19. > :40:29.support HS2 because it is a good way of getting Tory MPs at each

:40:29. > :40:30.

:40:30. > :40:36.other's throats! I agree with... One would be your point about the

:40:37. > :40:44.argument? I agree with Nadhim that it is the implementation that is

:40:44. > :40:49.key. That person's house should have been bought and he should not

:40:49. > :40:54.have had to make four applications. People attach to their houses, I am

:40:54. > :40:58.in favour of HS2 but we must reduce the disruption as much as possible

:40:58. > :41:02.for those affected on the line who have to move. A particular issue,

:41:03. > :41:07.not just for people close to the line and obvious cases but someone

:41:07. > :41:12.perhaps he may be half a mile away so on the wrong side of the

:41:12. > :41:17.compensation line but nevertheless their property is blighted by it.

:41:17. > :41:24.There is now a mechanism in place for those people to apply for their

:41:24. > :41:30.homes to be acquired. There are three levels, 60 metres, 120 metres

:41:30. > :41:34.and whatever is beyond that. But like Emma says, emotionally this is

:41:34. > :41:41.difficult for people. Suddenly your whole life is turned upside-down

:41:41. > :41:45.and the quicker that HS2 deals with it, the better.

:41:45. > :41:49.More Midlands hospitals investigated over high death-rate.

:41:50. > :41:55.We visit the Queen's Hospital in Burton where they are am about to

:41:55. > :42:00.welcome the inspectors. So soon after the public report on Stafford

:42:00. > :42:04.Hospital inquiry scandal. Much to discuss on that but let's talk

:42:04. > :42:08.first about the young woman from Birmingham who took on the

:42:08. > :42:15.Government and won, or did she? Cait Reilly was told that if she

:42:15. > :42:19.did not do two weeks of three work for Poundland, she would lose her

:42:19. > :42:23.jobseeker's allowance. It is seen as a major setback for the Back To

:42:23. > :42:26.Work programme but as Elizabeth Glinka discovers, ministers are

:42:26. > :42:31.determined to persevere with the scheme.

:42:31. > :42:35.It is the Government's flagship policy, to concentrate the minds of

:42:36. > :42:40.jobseekers but two weeks of unpaid work at Poundland in Kings Heath

:42:40. > :42:43.ment Cait Reilly had to leave voluntary work at a museum. Those

:42:43. > :42:51.two weeks were a waste of time on the experience did not help me get

:42:51. > :42:57.a job, I was not given training and I had no time to look for other

:42:57. > :43:00.work and do volunteer work. The core of Appeal work ruled that

:43:00. > :43:05.government regulations and are penning this had been inadequate.

:43:05. > :43:11.The Government has unlawfully required tens of thousands of

:43:11. > :43:16.unemployed people to work without pay and unlawfully stripped

:43:16. > :43:21.thousands more of their subsistence benefit. It is a major breakthrough

:43:21. > :43:26.for the law firm based in Birmingham. The company have worked

:43:26. > :43:29.on cases like the All treatment of prisoners in Iraq to the closure of

:43:29. > :43:32.libraries here. They have always denied that the work is politically

:43:32. > :43:36.motivated. They say that it is up to governments and councils to

:43:36. > :43:46.comply with the law. The Government is tabling new regulations which it

:43:46. > :43:49.says will avoid uncertainty. One of our region's MPs is not deterred.

:43:49. > :43:53.Young people find it hard to get jobs without experience and they

:43:53. > :43:56.find it difficult to get experience without having a job so these

:43:56. > :43:59.schemes help people. But if the Government must repay people who

:43:59. > :44:07.have to work for nothing, the bill for the taxpayer will be millions

:44:07. > :44:10.more than that famous �1. It certainly would. If you get into

:44:10. > :44:17.government, you will not be celebrating in the way that you are

:44:17. > :44:21.at the moment. The government is embarrassed but the Blairs could be

:44:21. > :44:26.on your back. I think the Government has a responsibility to

:44:26. > :44:32.help people get back into work -- but the lawyers could be on your

:44:32. > :44:36.back. In this case as your report points out, this might end up

:44:36. > :44:40.costing lots of money. The Government have paid to go to court

:44:40. > :44:43.on this and they will appeal which will cost more money and if they

:44:43. > :44:50.are unsuccessful, it is possible that thousands of people will

:44:50. > :44:54.demand a rebate if, in their case as well, forcing them to work was

:44:54. > :44:58.illegal. Nadhim, it looks like you have exploited this young person

:44:58. > :45:01.and a great expense to the public purse potentially. It is

:45:01. > :45:05.interesting what Emma thinks because one of her colleagues

:45:05. > :45:11.thinks we are doing the right thing. People in receipt of benefits

:45:11. > :45:15.should not be getting work- experience. We were on the way to

:45:15. > :45:19.passing legislation to correct what the judgement effectively said, the

:45:19. > :45:23.wording that was wrong with the previous legislation. But the

:45:23. > :45:28.important principle is that, should a young person get work experience

:45:28. > :45:33.to get them on their way to getting a real job... She already was a

:45:33. > :45:39.volunteer in a museum, she did not to stacks health. She asked for a

:45:39. > :45:44.retailing job if you look at her application -- to stack shelves.

:45:44. > :45:53.There is nothing wrong with stacking shelves. Terry Leahy

:45:53. > :45:58.started stacking shelves and became the chief executive of Tesco's. The

:45:58. > :46:04.worst programme it is working -- the work programme is working very

:46:04. > :46:09.well, costing �1 per person and under Labour, this was costing 20

:46:09. > :46:14.per times more when there is no money around. A does concentrate

:46:14. > :46:18.the minds of jobseekers -- it does. I agree with work-experience but

:46:18. > :46:23.that should involve training and if somebody is doing a full-time job

:46:23. > :46:26.it should involve them getting paid the minimum wage. In this

:46:26. > :46:29.particular circumstance, as you said, Cait Reilly was doing

:46:29. > :46:34.voluntary work at the museum and then forced to give up that

:46:34. > :46:41.voluntary work and was made to work full-time for David and Mark Short

:46:41. > :46:46.and she was not paid the minimum wage -- full time for Poundland.

:46:46. > :46:50.The number of people finding work in the private sector, you have to

:46:50. > :46:54.go back decades to get this sort of numbers we are seeing now. I agree

:46:54. > :46:58.with people getting experience but I also think it has to be done on a

:46:58. > :47:04.case-by-case basis and in this case, she was a geography graduate and

:47:04. > :47:07.she should have got some training. She is now working at the

:47:07. > :47:11.supermarket as we speak so that was not the principle of this case, the

:47:12. > :47:15.principle was she was not paid. you are in receipt of benefits,

:47:15. > :47:19.there is nothing wrong with the getting work experience, that is

:47:19. > :47:22.the principle. We will leave it there for the minute. One week

:47:22. > :47:28.after the France has report into catastrophic failings at Stafford

:47:28. > :47:34.Hospital, -- the Francis Report, three other hospitals are under

:47:34. > :47:40.investigation. In total, 14 major hospitals across England are being

:47:40. > :47:44.examined including those in Dudley and Nuneaton. BBC Radio Stoke's

:47:44. > :47:53.reporter Phil McCann has been to the third in Burton on Trent to ask

:47:53. > :47:57.if a new watchdog is at least part Put yourself in the shoes of these

:47:57. > :48:03.patients. Would he be wondering if this hospital could be another

:48:03. > :48:07.Stafford Hospital? Every time I have been here personally, they

:48:07. > :48:12.have sorted my kids out very well. If you have to come in, you have to

:48:12. > :48:16.come in. There is nothing you can do about it. It is being

:48:16. > :48:26.investigated because of higher than expected death rate over the last

:48:26. > :48:28.

:48:28. > :48:31.two years. Queen's -- George Eliot Hospital is also being investigated.

:48:31. > :48:35.We welcome the opportunity for the review. There are always things we

:48:35. > :48:40.can learn and improve prison services, will come the review and

:48:40. > :48:44.the findings and opportunities. Mortality rates, people described

:48:44. > :48:52.them as a smoke alarm. It is only right and proper that as part of

:48:52. > :48:56.the process we look at our services What happened at Stafford Hospital

:48:56. > :49:02.was so grave it prompted five inquiries including two led by

:49:02. > :49:06.Robert Francis QC. Out of his first was born Healthwatch, the

:49:06. > :49:12.Government's vision for delivering health scrutiny which had been

:49:12. > :49:15.conspicuous by its absence at Stafford. Jan Sensier will run

:49:15. > :49:18.Staffordshire's Healthwatch. She will be the was of thousands of

:49:18. > :49:22.patients giving them the courage to speak up when things go wrong so

:49:22. > :49:28.who should be involved up? I do not think we need the medical expertise.

:49:28. > :49:32.Lots of people within the NHS have the expertise and we are not trying

:49:32. > :49:36.to replicate that, we are trained to ask what does it feel like from

:49:36. > :49:39.the point of view of those experiencing it? But on a strict's

:49:39. > :49:44.programme, the boss of our region's biggest hospital had misgivings

:49:44. > :49:48.about the top of people who might be asked to carry out inspections.

:49:48. > :49:52.If you have them, they should have the credibility to do it so it

:49:52. > :49:57.involve patients to use the service and also doctors and nurses,

:49:57. > :50:01.physiotherapists, people who lie in current practice. It has been a

:50:01. > :50:10.week of intense pressure for the NHS in the Midlands, one of our

:50:10. > :50:14.hospitals found itself at in the discussion and no shortage of

:50:14. > :50:21.talking points. We will pick up on some of those

:50:21. > :50:24.talking points now. During the package from Phil McCann, we met

:50:24. > :50:32.the chief executive of Burton Hospital. We are also joined by

:50:32. > :50:37.somebody else from another Midlands hospital and, Kevin McGee runs the

:50:37. > :50:43.George Eliot Hospital at Nuneaton and Warwickshire. You and your

:50:43. > :50:49.colleagues say you welcome this review. Through gritted teeth,

:50:49. > :50:53.presumably. I personally do welcome this inquiry. We have done lots of

:50:53. > :50:57.work at George Eliot Hospital in terms of trying to improve our

:50:57. > :51:00.quality and patient experience. We have got a good story to tell. We

:51:00. > :51:03.are not perfect and we need to improve but we have got a good

:51:03. > :51:09.story to tell and the work we have done can be shared across the wider

:51:09. > :51:13.NHS but also another point which is important. As the chief executive,

:51:13. > :51:17.if there is anything that we are not doing that we should do, I want

:51:18. > :51:21.to know so this review is important. Let me ask you a direct question,

:51:21. > :51:27.what would you say to patients who may feel entitled to ask if there

:51:27. > :51:32.is another step at hospital out there, if George Eliot Hospital is

:51:32. > :51:36.another one of the basis of this review? We have done a lot of work

:51:36. > :51:39.looking at mortality and also patient experience and the vast

:51:39. > :51:44.majority of our indicators show that we are a safe, good, local

:51:44. > :51:48.hospital providing good care with dignity to our local population are.

:51:48. > :51:52.We talk about higher than expected death-rate, do you have a view on

:51:52. > :51:58.what sort of numbers we are talking about? The impression is rather

:51:58. > :52:03.vague at the moment. It is difficult to actually get a handle

:52:03. > :52:09.on the actual number but what we can say is that we have more

:52:09. > :52:14.expected deaths in our hospital but that can have many factors

:52:14. > :52:17.contributing. For instance, in our part of the country, we have no

:52:17. > :52:21.Hospice in-patient beds so more people will come into the George

:52:21. > :52:26.Eliot Hospital at the end of life than would elsewhere. So we also

:52:26. > :52:31.take more emergency activity than planned activity which will

:52:31. > :52:35.increase the risk and death rate within the hospital. Is that why

:52:35. > :52:39.you preferred to use the expression "mortality indicators", because it

:52:39. > :52:46.is not an exact science? You have to take account of the complexity

:52:46. > :52:50.of challenging cases? That is correct and we have and we need a

:52:50. > :52:54.debate which is mature. The mortality indicators give us a

:52:54. > :52:59.general overall direction. It can be a smoke alarm but you have to

:52:59. > :53:06.look at much more subtle indicators. Looking at all safety indicators

:53:06. > :53:12.but also patients' stories. We need to get much more mature and rounded

:53:12. > :53:17.debate about what people are saying. His Healthwatch, the Government's

:53:17. > :53:21.vision for scrutiny on the ground, is that the answer -- is

:53:22. > :53:28.Healthwatch? So scrutiny of hospitals is really important.

:53:28. > :53:34.must listen to what patients are telling us. Nadhim, you are saying

:53:34. > :53:42.this must never happen again, what to say about this? Calling a review,

:53:42. > :53:47.does it heighten the MORI or give a -- height and the worry or give

:53:47. > :53:51.people an idea that it is being looked at? I had a lady called

:53:51. > :53:56.Gillian who set up a charity in my constituency called kissing it

:53:56. > :54:02.better, a phenomenal idea because of its simplicity. They go into

:54:02. > :54:06.hospitals and bring compassion back into the wards. Going in with drama

:54:06. > :54:10.students or students who do hair and beauty, to be there with them

:54:10. > :54:16.and talk to them, but one of the frustrations is bureaucracy gets in

:54:16. > :54:25.the wake of what you have here a, sentence of an over-bureaucratic

:54:25. > :54:28.system. Staff had suffered because of been counting. They cannot put

:54:28. > :54:32.any part of the walls because of health and safety, that might not

:54:32. > :54:37.be related to the performance of a hospital, it is the culture. It is

:54:37. > :54:42.no longer human, compassionate that you are talking to patients, it is

:54:42. > :54:46.all about paper-filling and targets. We need to bring that discretion

:54:46. > :54:50.back into the hospitals and make them human again. In the meantime,

:54:50. > :54:53.we are hearing from the police commissioner in Stafford among

:54:53. > :54:57.others and local MPs, that prosecution should be brought after

:54:57. > :55:03.Stafford and so far nothing has happened. What is your view of

:55:03. > :55:07.these increasing demands? I agree with the demands and anybody who

:55:07. > :55:11.read the recent report at what happened at Stafford will have a

:55:11. > :55:17.chill in their spine. It is unacceptable but we must see this

:55:17. > :55:26.in a wider context of the NHS in overall providing a good level of

:55:26. > :55:33.care... Sorry, Patrick. Overall patient expectation levels are very

:55:33. > :55:38.good. Should people be held to account would this in law, Nadhim?

:55:38. > :55:42.Not a single person has been fired in this, it is amazing. People hide

:55:42. > :55:49.behind all sorts of bureaucracy. Whistleblowers get trodden all over.

:55:49. > :55:52.Yet this is disgraceful. That is about culture and it comes from

:55:52. > :55:58.people covering their own backs. They believe that bureaucracy will

:55:58. > :56:02.save them. That is wrong and need to be stamped out. You are hearing

:56:02. > :56:05.the strength of opinion and it you are having to manage all these

:56:05. > :56:11.issues while dealing with the pressure on budgets and reforms,

:56:11. > :56:15.how is that going? I have worked in the NHS for over 25 years and by a

:56:16. > :56:19.passionate about it and I am immensely proud of the people that

:56:19. > :56:23.were within the NHS, the doctors and nurses. At the George Eliot

:56:23. > :56:28.Hospital is a good local hospital providing good local services but

:56:28. > :56:33.we need to be accountable to our population and what will come from

:56:33. > :56:38.this inquiry is more accountability and that is correct. Good of you to

:56:38. > :56:42.be with us, Kevin McGee. Now for our regular round-up of the

:56:42. > :56:52.political week in the Midlands, as told by a BBC Hereford and

:56:52. > :56:53.

:56:53. > :56:57.Legacy - what legacy? Birmingham taxpayers may have to stump up �8

:56:57. > :57:00.million because of problems with an Olympic catering contract involving

:57:00. > :57:03.a council-owned firm. Talks are taking place.

:57:03. > :57:08.Taoiseach announcement that the Pope is resigning triggered

:57:08. > :57:12.memories of his visit to Birmingham in 2010. All over the region, an

:57:12. > :57:16.appreciation that he had come to us and that was a very special moment

:57:17. > :57:21.for the city and its people. Pay up or get out. That is the

:57:21. > :57:28.message from the owners of the Ricoh Arena to Coventry City. After

:57:28. > :57:32.a row over unpaid rent which comes weeks after the council step in.

:57:32. > :57:38.Were kiss have demonstrated over fears of the privatisation of

:57:38. > :57:41.Telford's on a supply base. -- workers have demonstrated.

:57:41. > :57:48.And Staffordshire is the first council in the region to take

:57:48. > :57:55.overseas before off school and care home menus after the horsemeat

:57:55. > :57:59.gamble. The council say it is a belt and

:57:59. > :58:03.braces measure while tests are carried out. Politicians are

:58:03. > :58:07.starting to play the blame game. Labour are blaming the Government

:58:07. > :58:10.for being slow off the mark. The Conservatives are blaming the

:58:10. > :58:15.supermarkets for being economical with the truth. Is it because that

:58:15. > :58:19.both are correct? This scandal came to light on 15th January. The

:58:19. > :58:23.Government has been set at the wheel and the Conservative chair of

:58:23. > :58:27.the committee that shadows that Department for Environment and

:58:27. > :58:33.rural affairs so that they had been caught flat-footed. At the same

:58:33. > :58:38.time, Patrick... But Owen Paterson was in Brussels last week trying to

:58:38. > :58:43.get European action rather than posturing. Why was he not on top of

:58:43. > :58:51.this on 15th January? Why did it take him a mug to come to terms

:58:51. > :58:54.with this? -- taking a month. The retailers are clearly the ones who

:58:54. > :58:57.were clearly responsible even though the Government has some

:58:57. > :59:02.responsibility for setting out the framework and regulation to make

:59:02. > :59:12.sure this does not happen. impression is, Nadhim, the control

:59:12. > :59:12.

:59:12. > :59:18.of the Food chain is out of control. If you start throwing names around,

:59:18. > :59:23.Ed Miliband gave an interview to the Financial Times and laughed

:59:23. > :59:28.food safety off as a joke so nobody saw this as a danger but where it

:59:28. > :59:34.really does matter is the accountability of the food

:59:34. > :59:37.processors and retailers. We did a scrutiny for the Ombudsman for

:59:37. > :59:43.supermarkets and at the time the industry did not want one. And that

:59:43. > :59:48.is why it is important to have an ombudsman. We must leave it there.

:59:48. > :59:51.Thank you to Nadhim and Emma. We support to a story about top sports

:59:51. > :59:55.stars refusing to compete in this country because of our tax laws and

:59:55. > :59:59.it turns out somebody in authority must have been watching because the

:59:59. > :00:02.regulations will be suspended next July's so they can appear at the