:01:26. > :01:36.Banned in the Midlands: Public sector jobs Darin, private sector
:01:36. > :01:36.
:01:36. > :38:07.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2190 seconds
:38:07. > :38:10.jobs up. What would Margaret Hello from the Midlands. We are
:38:10. > :38:16.reflecting on the influence Margaret Thatcher had on our part
:38:16. > :38:23.of the world. We will be joined by a variety of guests from our main
:38:23. > :38:30.parties. This week we have the Labour MP for Stoke and Trent South
:38:31. > :38:36.and the Liberal Democrat from nearby. Countless tributes to
:38:36. > :38:44.Margaret Thatcher, this one comes from the MP from Stone who visited
:38:44. > :38:48.her just six months ago. If you remember when we obtained the
:38:48. > :38:54.victory in 1979 we had just previously had the winter of
:38:55. > :38:59.discontent. People remained and buried. There was rubbish mountain
:38:59. > :39:05.in every street and she turned it around and created the right to buy,
:39:05. > :39:11.the enterprise economy. In my own constituency she created an
:39:11. > :39:15.enterprise agency on the back of that which is still going. Bogof
:39:15. > :39:24.you were conspicuous absentees during the recalled House of
:39:24. > :39:28.Commons on Wednesday. Why did you decide to give it a mess? I thought
:39:29. > :39:33.there should have been a system of protocols and that would be a good
:39:33. > :39:36.system to have. With Churchill there were three speeches, one from
:39:37. > :39:41.each party leader and one from the leader of the house which I think
:39:42. > :39:47.it's a good way of dealing with it. At the end of the day we are
:39:47. > :39:53.dealing with human beings, somebody's mother, somebody's grand
:39:53. > :39:59.mother. As to her track record, I always find it interesting looking
:39:59. > :40:08.at the to what extent Tony Benn created these seeds of her success
:40:08. > :40:12.in the work he did developing North Sea oil. She by the same complement
:40:12. > :40:18.almost said her greatest achievement was the election of the
:40:18. > :40:22.Blair Government. She made that change for Labour. Did you not go
:40:22. > :40:31.because you could not trust yourself not to speak ill of the
:40:31. > :40:34.dead? I think rightly at this time family and friends but I was not
:40:34. > :40:40.going to go because of the damage she did, the pain of many of my
:40:40. > :40:48.constituents still suffer. I decided I would stick to another
:40:48. > :40:53.commitment I had at the NEC. British disease, the sick man of
:40:53. > :40:59.Europe, all of that? The you look famously when Thatcher took office
:40:59. > :41:06.she quoted the words of St Francis but actually she created division
:41:06. > :41:12.and disappear. Never mind creating hope, she created the opposite. She
:41:12. > :41:17.created literally brother verses brother in communities. You wear a
:41:17. > :41:22.child of the Thatcher years, in 1983 you set up your business. You
:41:22. > :41:29.are a Liberal Democrat but you should have been a Conservative.
:41:29. > :41:34.was successful to be a millionaire by 1987. You have got to look at
:41:34. > :41:38.what the success of the economy was built on then. The problem is we
:41:38. > :41:42.are talking about someone who has recently died. We should be
:41:43. > :41:49.respectful of her family. She did some positive things and some less
:41:50. > :41:54.positive things. There were impassioned contributions on
:41:54. > :41:58.Wednesday, the Stourbridge MP told the Commons how she had been
:41:58. > :42:06.inspired as a teenager growing up in Coventry by the then newly
:42:06. > :42:12.elected opposition leader. She told me how her meeting with Margaret
:42:12. > :42:17.Thatcher in 1975 had helped fulfil her father's deepest wish. He said
:42:17. > :42:23.if you ever meet Margaret Thatcher tell her there are only to
:42:23. > :42:28.politicians to have made a difference, Winston Churchill and
:42:28. > :42:34.Margaret Thatcher. We have a picture. Little did we know oh,
:42:34. > :42:37.little did she know, you would eventually become the Conservative
:42:37. > :42:43.MP for Stourbridge, do you think this is a moment when you brought a
:42:43. > :42:48.bit of the Thatcher factor to the Black Country? I hope so. She was a
:42:48. > :42:52.great exponent of boosting opportunities for young people.
:42:52. > :42:59.That is one of my main priorities to. They is still a lot of work to
:42:59. > :43:07.be done. You were such an admirer I gather that when Dee party dumped
:43:07. > :43:14.her from the leadership Utah up your party membership? Yes, I did.
:43:14. > :43:20.I was very saddened by the whole experience. I did resign my
:43:20. > :43:24.membership the next day. I felt it was such a betrayal. Her critics
:43:24. > :43:29.pointed out she presided over the collapse of much of the
:43:29. > :43:39.manufacturing base in our country, tripling unemployment. This is a
:43:39. > :43:43.
:43:43. > :43:53.complete mess. It is one I tried to dispel in the debate this week. --
:43:53. > :43:59.a myth. It was already receding before she came in. But it went
:43:59. > :44:04.under on her watch. First of all, employment was better at the end of
:44:04. > :44:10.her period in office than it was in the beginning but I do accept that
:44:10. > :44:19.in the early years, in the 1980 resection, then you are right,
:44:19. > :44:24.unemployment did go up. She did inspire you in those teenage years
:44:24. > :44:30.of years. Did you ultimately be inspired to follow in her
:44:30. > :44:40.footsteps? I think not if you mean towards the party leadership. I
:44:40. > :44:40.
:44:40. > :44:44.have to accept my limitations and I do not have that big a job in me. I
:44:44. > :44:51.was inspired by higher, particularly because in the 70s,
:44:51. > :44:55.you will remember this, people had given up hope in this country. We
:44:55. > :45:01.were the sick man of Europe and nobody had any confidence that
:45:01. > :45:08.anyone could change it. I was amazed Mrs Thatcher did what she
:45:08. > :45:12.did. I did not expect it when I voted for her, I did not vote for
:45:12. > :45:19.her in the beginning because I was too young but my parents did bought
:45:19. > :45:28.for her. I did not expect her to achieve the amazing turnaround she
:45:28. > :45:33.did. I was around in the 70s and I still am! I am joined also today by
:45:33. > :45:43.the Conservatives who defected to the UK Independence Party. He
:45:43. > :45:43.
:45:43. > :45:48.subsequently stood for UKIP at the last election. Shortly after what
:45:49. > :45:52.must have been a very traumatic decision to leave the Conservatives
:45:53. > :45:59.you met Baroness Thatcher I gather. Did she tell you you had made the
:45:59. > :46:05.biggest mistake of your life? she did not actually say anything
:46:05. > :46:10.about it at all but I knew if she wanted to make something she would
:46:10. > :46:18.make the point. I used seeing in effect she gave you her classic
:46:19. > :46:23.approval? -- saying. In effect, yes. You had given up the membership of
:46:23. > :46:29.a major party that really can do something about the European debate
:46:29. > :46:31.whereas UKIP, despite all the pushed, shoved and shout in power
:46:31. > :46:40.it is not going to be elected to Government to make the big
:46:40. > :46:47.decisions, is it? I think it could in time. UKIP will, in time, be at
:46:47. > :46:54.party to be reckoned West. Maybe not instantly for the next
:46:54. > :47:02.Government but membership is over 25,000. That was the last figure I
:47:02. > :47:10.cared, we are a growing party. heard Margaret Thatcher talk about
:47:10. > :47:15.the inspiration, what are you reflections? I would not stand for
:47:15. > :47:23.any of the flimflam of politics. Margaret Thatcher was very direct,
:47:23. > :47:30.she did what was right for the British people. I'd do not think
:47:30. > :47:34.that is as the others said that she would have liked the tributes on
:47:34. > :47:39.Wednesday, there would be nothing wrong with having the tributes on
:47:39. > :47:42.Monday. I think it was David Cameron trying to shore up his
:47:42. > :47:52.credentials with his own backbenchers rather than anything
:47:52. > :47:54.
:47:54. > :48:02.else. We have cared from Margot about how she inspired, she was a
:48:02. > :48:10.woman of great conviction. Although you don't Tidby we are being led to
:48:10. > :48:18.expect a low turnout in the shire elections. -- a boy you don't agree.
:48:18. > :48:25.I do not think it is bland politics. In terms of ideological politics it
:48:25. > :48:30.is something I am absolutely behind. I think it is the right thing. You
:48:30. > :48:35.have sometimes to temper ideology and I think one thing Margaret
:48:35. > :48:41.Thatcher did not do was take advice, consider things and be persuaded to
:48:41. > :48:46.change opinion. We have heard time and again people over recent days
:48:46. > :48:50.saying that one thing they would have changed about her was actually
:48:50. > :48:56.the intransigence that once she had made her mind to something she
:48:56. > :49:01.would not be swayed. Sometimes actually having a little humility
:49:01. > :49:11.and being able to listen to what other people are saying and taking
:49:11. > :49:11.
:49:11. > :49:21.that into account is important. did not like coalitions! So what
:49:21. > :49:25.would you say about the passion? There is an argument for a sort of
:49:25. > :49:29.politics where you listen to people and if the argument that you were
:49:29. > :49:33.getting is that things are wrong then you change policy. I do not
:49:33. > :49:38.think Government should be about deciding centrally what they think
:49:38. > :49:44.is right, ignoring everybody and forcing it on everybody in the
:49:44. > :49:52.country. There is some merit in listening to people. And tackling
:49:52. > :50:01.it as you go. So, what, I wonder, with the Iron Lady have made of the
:50:01. > :50:06.services and concentrate on growth in the private sector? Recent
:50:06. > :50:11.figures have shown us how the economy is changing. Our reporter
:50:11. > :50:17.has been investigating in Hereford and Worcester. The public sector.
:50:17. > :50:23.Under Labour it grew until it was almost half of the UK economy. In
:50:23. > :50:29.previous decades during a visit to JCB in Staffordshire Margaret
:50:29. > :50:32.Thatcher championed a private sector. Whenever I go I am asked
:50:32. > :50:38.where the jobs are coming from, they come from successful companies
:50:38. > :50:46.like this. 20 years on, the Conservative argument has not
:50:46. > :50:51.changed. The way to grow the economy is to shrink the State.
:50:51. > :50:56.This man saw the writing on the wall at the MoD. He joined at 17
:50:56. > :51:04.and spent the next 23 years working his way up through the army ranks.
:51:04. > :51:10.taxpayer. Today he is a private sector employees at this small
:51:10. > :51:14.security firm. The way I saw it was this shrinking of the public sector
:51:14. > :51:20.and taking on some of that work in the private sector meant there were
:51:20. > :51:26.more opportunities out there. bosses have taken on 12 workers
:51:26. > :51:32.from the public sector in the last 12 years. They say employing people
:51:32. > :51:35.like him makes good business sense. It gives us access to skills and
:51:35. > :51:45.expertise we might find difficult to acquire elsewhere. They also
:51:45. > :51:51.come with an understanding of how the public sector works. And they
:51:51. > :51:59.are not alone. According to the latest figures, last here 72,000
:51:59. > :52:06.jobs were created in private sector firms. At the same time, 16,000
:52:06. > :52:10.public-sector jobs were lost. But the regional unemployment stays
:52:10. > :52:15.stubbornly high and above national average. The upheaval of the last
:52:15. > :52:20.few years have led to scenes like these in our towns and cities right
:52:20. > :52:25.across the Midlands. Public-sector workers angry at job losses,
:52:25. > :52:30.frustrated by changes to their pensions, and worried about the
:52:30. > :52:35.Government's economic policy. absolutely clear that the austerity
:52:35. > :52:41.measures are feeling. We have gone into a double-dip recession and are
:52:41. > :52:45.knocking on the door of a triple dip recession. Public or private
:52:45. > :52:52.sector, the argument will continue. In the end the only thing that
:52:52. > :52:59.really matters are the jobs themselves. Now, Margaret Thatcher
:52:59. > :53:09.was a great fan of GCB then and presumably still would be today as
:53:09. > :53:09.
:53:09. > :53:15.a private sector developing jobs as an antidote to be over-dependence
:53:15. > :53:19.on public sector jobs as your party had done. You do not grow the
:53:19. > :53:23.economy by reducing dramatically the public sector. You do not get
:53:23. > :53:31.more people into work in the private sector simply by sacking
:53:31. > :53:41.countless people from their public sector jobs. Firms like GCB can
:53:41. > :53:51.
:53:51. > :53:57.generate money the public simply spends it. -- JCB. But it is about
:53:57. > :54:02.enabling. By having a strong response of effective public sector
:54:02. > :54:12.which looks after hospitals and education, it also has an enabling
:54:12. > :54:17.role to make sure workers are workforce and we can grow the
:54:17. > :54:22.private sector that way. Yes we have big success stories like JCB
:54:23. > :54:29.but there are areas of structural long-term unemployment so you have
:54:29. > :54:34.a divergence. Some good examples like these signs sector in Malvern
:54:34. > :54:41.but there is some decline. thing is the reduction, gradual
:54:41. > :54:48.reduction in unemployment. That is not fast enough from my point of
:54:48. > :54:56.view. I am concerned about my constituents. At the end of the day
:54:56. > :55:02.the economy is to serve people. I am just quoting figures from my
:55:02. > :55:12.constituency. At the end of the day the job of the economy is to serve
:55:12. > :55:16.
:55:16. > :55:19.people as a whole and if we have an public sector, we are achieving a
:55:19. > :55:28.balance. You are looking for a job at the moment. Where do you think
:55:28. > :55:34.the prospects are? I started off talking about Mrs Thatcher at a
:55:34. > :55:40.coal mine. I have had experience in the public sector in the air in and
:55:40. > :55:46.nationalised industry which we do not have any more or. The
:55:46. > :55:52.nationalised industries have gone, British Leyland for example. The
:55:52. > :55:57.public sector that is left seems to be very effective. You have got
:55:57. > :56:05.things like the NHS brand which are being used to market services
:56:05. > :56:12.abroad. That is generating income. Putting it all together, doesn't it
:56:13. > :56:19.suggests there is maybe a crumb of optimism that the economy might be
:56:19. > :56:23.economy might come right and what I am seeing in my constituency is
:56:23. > :56:27.more people are becoming unemployed, there might be jobs being created
:56:27. > :56:34.down in Malvern but in Stoke and trend there are jobs being lost.
:56:34. > :56:38.telling people they must travel around the country to find jobs?
:56:38. > :56:43.The areas like North Staffordshire are losing employment and not just
:56:43. > :56:47.in the private sector -- not just in the public sector but private
:56:47. > :56:53.sector jobs are being lost as well and there are no other jobs to go
:56:53. > :56:57.to in this area so do we end up with a situation in a few years'
:56:57. > :57:04.time we are really the only jobs are in the south of the country and
:57:04. > :57:11.anything north of Watford is a sort of waste land. We are certainly
:57:11. > :57:18.still in the days of enterprise zones. Economic policy is rooted in
:57:19. > :57:24.the same thinking, is it not? We do need to make sure places like Stoke,
:57:24. > :57:29.obviously Malvern is doing very well. We need to make sure there is
:57:29. > :57:36.success across the country. Enterprise zones are ludicrously
:57:36. > :57:46.high. This causes an economic problem. It always does. It is not
:57:46. > :57:53.
:57:53. > :58:00.easy to solve. Now here is our political reporter in Shropshire.
:58:00. > :58:08.Be well remember them. The names of soldiers killed in duty were etched
:58:08. > :58:18.in stone. Two resignations in Sandwell. The councillor and
:58:18. > :58:29.
:58:29. > :58:35.chairman in charge of Children's Services. The county's first
:58:35. > :58:42.official flag is flown. An investigation into the death of a
:58:42. > :58:46.woman in hospital, she slipped into a diabetic coma in 2007 at the
:58:46. > :58:56.hospital. And a legal challenge against Government changes to
:58:56. > :58:58.
:58:58. > :59:04.disability benefits. That on top of a threatened judicial review into
:59:04. > :59:08.the housing benefit changes as well. If you put it together this whole
:59:08. > :59:15.project starts to unravel. It is a fundamental disaster for the
:59:15. > :59:25.Government. I think charging council tax to people on
:59:25. > :59:26.
:59:26. > :59:30.jobseeker's allowance is wrong and complex. I do not like to comment
:59:30. > :59:35.on the details without seeing the claims forms. I understand the
:59:35. > :59:40.details. You can create a judicial review. Do you think this whole
:59:40. > :59:45.raft of changes to the benefits system will go through as the
:59:45. > :59:51.Government want them to? They have gone through. People are going to
:59:51. > :59:57.argue about it. I was looking today for instance at the issue of how we
:59:57. > :00:04.help people with budgeting, with the six towns credit union. Those
:00:04. > :00:12.are important things to do for everybody. A quick final word for
:00:12. > :00:20.you. We spent 23 billion on housing benefit with only 10 billion more
:00:20. > :00:30.on defence. You have got to get on top of this. If things are
:00:30. > :00:31.
:00:31. > :00:39.Government is taking us back not to the 1980s but the 1880s where